VLS Roulette Forum

Sections => Sections <- (Click HERE for descriptions of below sections) => Mr. Chips' Section => Topic started by: Mr Chips on October 24, 2009, 03:56:24 AM

Title: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 24, 2009, 03:56:24 AM
I am aiming to place a link here to the Signum website next Friday.

I will be spending 2 days checking for errors and adding some more results.

Please use this thread to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them.

Question 1 : Should the casino's be worried?

Answer : If I was a casino owner I would ban myself ;D :lol: :biggrin:

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: hoper35 on October 24, 2009, 09:52:51 AM
A fox in charge of the chickens???   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Coxx16 on October 24, 2009, 10:51:32 AM
Right on Mr. Chips. I have been waiting a long time to read about your E.C. system.  :yahoo:
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 24, 2009, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: Coxx16 on October 24, 2009, 10:51:32 AM
Right on Mr. Chips. I have been waiting a long time to read about your E.C. system.  :yahoo:

Me too...
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Tangram on October 24, 2009, 12:44:04 PM
Looking forward to having another crack at it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 29, 2009, 03:40:56 PM
Welcome to the Signum system

     nolinks://nolinks.signumsystem.com (nolinks://nolinks.signumsystem.com)

As with the other websites :

     nolinks://nolinks.roulettesolutions.com (nolinks://nolinks.roulettesolutions.com)

     nolinks://nolinks.4selectasystem.com (nolinks://nolinks.4selectasystem.com)

there are close links to vlsroulette.com, the only really productive forum on the internet.

I hope you enjoy Signums' amazing performance.

Regards to ALL Members

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 29, 2009, 07:05:00 PM
Thank you Richard for the hard work you have put in and sharing all of that. It appears you will get lot of questions till we understand the system (if we could  ;D).
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on October 30, 2009, 12:19:48 AM
why don't you write a straight-forward explanation of how to play the system?  I could not find an explanation of how to play the signum system at your website, only cryptic examples of this and that that are basically meaningless to someone who has no clue how to play the system.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 02:13:53 AM
Richard,
How do you select the spins?

PS - I am not familier with 4selecta
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 02:16:52 AM
The results look quite impressive Richard but where is the method

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 02:24:13 AM
Quote from: simon on October 30, 2009, 12:19:48 AM
why don't you write a straight-forward explanation of how to play the system?  I could not find an explanation of how to play the signum system at your website, only cryptic examples of this and that that are basically meaningless to someone who has no clue how to play the system.

simon,

I wrote in the introduction page "it takes a great deal of determination to fully understand the system"
I did not create this system in 5 minutes. It took a very long time to work it all out in it's present form.

Each stage is explained. Firstly the groups of numbers, then the skipping process in order to chose the
numbers and their associated colours and then there is a detailed example of a Signum session explained
line by line. What is cryptic about that ?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 02:31:19 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 02:13:53 AM
Richard,
How do you select the spins?

PS - I am not familier with 4selecta

Bazee,

The spins are not selected in the same way as 4Seleta.

There is a page that explains the skipping process whereby the Lower group of numbers use continuous
spins, the Middle group skip one spin and the Higher Group skips two spins.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 02:44:32 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 02:16:52 AM
The results look quite impressive Richard but where is the method

Regards Rodney

You have to work through the detailed example that I have given line by line in order to understand
how the symbols P and M are formed. It is not easy, but it's the only way and anyone who takes their
time in carefully understanding this detailed session, will have a basic understanding of a Signum session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 02:46:42 AM
Quote from: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 02:31:19 AM
There is a page that explains the skipping process whereby the Lower group of numbers use continuous
spins, the Middle group skip one spin and the Higher Group skips two spins.

I read that but could not understand it... (please bear with me)
If you allow me, I will use your displayed example to understand spin selection

Your example:
26 - HG
32 - MG
3 - LG
8* - HG

Why did you select only on 4th spin ?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 02:50:59 AM
Quote from: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 02:44:32 AM
You have to work through the detailed example that I have given line by line in order to understand
how the symbols P and M are formed. It is not easy, but it's the only way and anyone who takes their
time in carefully understanding this detailed session, will have a basic understanding of a Signum session.

Great work on your site Richard when i get my mind on to it ill learn it looks like it could be used professionally
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 02:56:42 AM
Hi Richard,

Do you plan to have a thread in your section for answering questions?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 02:57:03 AM
Richard if i wanted to learn just one of the methods you have which  would be the one

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 02:59:48 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 02:46:42 AM
I read that but could not understand it... (please bear with me)
If you allow me, I will use your displayed example to understand spin selection

Your example:
26 - HG
32 - MG
3 - LG
8* - HG

Why did you select only on 4th spin ?

Start with 26 then skip two spins :

26
32
3
8*

26 is a Higher group number and so there are two skips

21
29
34*

8 is also a Higher group number therefore again two skips
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 03:09:50 AM
Thank you Richard...Understood the simple part. Now onto the complex part.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 03:15:25 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 02:50:59 AM
Great work on your site Richard when I get my mind on to it ill learn it looks like it could be used professionally

Yes it is a professional system. There are no short cuts in understanding it. I know most people will not be
prepared to put the effort in to understand it, but those few who do will be well rewarded for their efforts.

In another post you mention which methods, you mean which systems? If I am correct here then the Signum
system is the best, as it has all the essential components to make a profit in the long term.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 03:17:38 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 02:56:42 AM
Hi Richard,

Do you plan to have a thread in your section for answering questions?

The 'chips' section is closed and will answer all questions here.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 03:32:02 AM
In the following example (I was running my own numbers)

8
1
0
34
2

do you consider zero as a spin and select #34 as a select spin or you ignore zero and select #2 as a select spin (in that case two spins skipped will be 1 & 34 as zero is ignored) ?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 03:38:55 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 03:32:02 AM
In the following example (I was running my own numbers)

8
1
0
34
2

do you consider zero as a spin and select #34 as a select spin or you ignore zero and select #2 as a select spin (in that case two spins skipped will be 1 & 34 as zero is ignored) ?

Yes select 34, skip 1 and 0.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 04:04:16 AM
Richard I was wondering if this can be used for any E/C games

Also I was wondering with your results  you only play one session per day is it ok play much more or is it a more hit and run sysyem
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 04:52:33 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 04:04:16 AM
Richard I was wondering if this can be used for any E/C games

I have only concentrated on B & R, as that is complex enough and it can be used easily in a casino.

What you have suggested though is an interesting proposition and I can envisage some whizz kid
programmer in the future creating the ultimate system (dare I say Holy Grail) whereby for example
a bot will keep track of all the movements of each of all of the symbols P & M relating to each of the
EC'S and select the winning EC for a particular session. Probably won't happen in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 05:03:29 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 04:04:16 AM
Richard I was wondering if this can be used for any E/C games

Also I was wondering with your results  you only play one session per day is it ok play much more or is it a more hit and run sysyem

Yes you can play as many sessions as you want, but they must be of a 20 entry duration.

I personally move to a different Table after a session or casino and always take a break between each session.
Each session requires intense concentration to get the best results from a session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bo0Merang on October 30, 2009, 06:32:31 AM
ehhhhmmm  very nice  both systems but can someone  please  explain exactly step to step  how to play  lg mg hg and when to play ??? i do not understand bet selection  becouse isnt explained orr i do  not understand well. both systems are unexplained  ...there was results  but steps and reasons ??? well i dont know
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: Bo0Merang on October 30, 2009, 06:32:31 AM
ehhhhmmm  very nice  both systems but can someone  please  explain exactly step to step  how to play  lg mg hg and when to play ??? I do not understand bet selection  becouse isnt explained orr I do  not understand well. both systems are unexplained  ...there was results  but steps and reasons ??? well I dont know

There is a page that shows which numbers belong to which groups, then the next page explains that the Lower
group uses continuous spins, the Middle group skips one spin and the Higher group skips 2 spins and that's how
you select the numbers and their associated colours.

If you don't understand the easy part, then it's unlikely you will grasp the rest of the system!
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on October 30, 2009, 01:17:31 PM
what does P stand for and what does M stand for?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 01:30:03 PM
Quote from: simon on October 30, 2009, 01:17:31 PM
what does P stand for and what does M stand for?

P = plus  P + 1 ( P needs duplication or ascending 1,2,3 etc)

M = minus  M - 1 ( M needs the opposite of P no duplication and if a new number
                              decending if 5 then needs 4, if 4 then needs 3 etc
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on October 30, 2009, 02:16:34 PM
I am printing out all pages from the website and before I spend a lot of time studying the signum system in earnest, I would like to know if you think it will be ok to use it against a double zeroe real wheel and/or a double zeroe virtual wheel.  I expect the results won't be as good but do you think it can still make a profit against a 00 wheel (any profit is good) and will it make any difference that the arrangement of the numbers around a double zeroe wheel is different than the arrangement of the numbers around a single zero wheel?   thanks.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: MAX on October 30, 2009, 02:56:44 PM
Richard

On your website you mentioned that sessions form different formations like for example a C Formation .

There are A, B, C, D, winning Formations and E a losing one.

How do i now which one is trending?

Thanks
MAX
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 04:07:45 PM
Quote from: simon on October 30, 2009, 02:16:34 PM
I am printing out all pages from the website and before I spend a lot of time studying the signum system in earnest, I would like to know if you think it will be ok to use it against a double zeroe real wheel and/or a double zeroe virtual wheel.  I expect the results won't be as good but do you think it can still make a profit against a 00 wheel (any profit is good) and will it make any difference that the arrangement of the numbers around a double zeroe wheel is different than the arrangement of the numbers around a single zero wheel?   thanks.

From the 20 sessions that are shown on the website, as an example, I substited 5 for 00, just to see what difference
it would make. The total profit from those sessions is +55 and using the substitution reduces the profit to +42.

The arrangement of the numbers shouldn't  make any difference.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: beo on October 30, 2009, 04:20:06 PM
Hi Richard,

I understood the simple part (how to select numbers), and now the next step is to write the 3rd column ( +/-/0 ).   

I haven't found explanation on your website but I think I know how to do, please let me know if I'm correct.   

Let's say we have these selected numbers :

18    R
9      R
22    B
35    B
2      B
7      R
12    R
21    R

So now the 3rd column should be like this :

18   R
9     R   +1
22   B    0
35   B   +1
2     B   +2
7     R   +1
12   R   +2
21   R   +3

You just add 1 if the previous colour is the same as the last one and minus 1 if different, am I right ?


Another question, what happened if we have to select numbers here :

26
32
3
8*
21
29
0* <== we can't select zero right ?   So I gess we select 32 ?
32
.   .   .   


BTW great job on your website,
thanks

Beo




Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: MAX on October 30, 2009, 02:56:44 PM
Richard

On your website you mentioned that sessions form different formations like for example a C Formation .

There are A, B, C, D, winning Formations and E a losing one.

How do I now which one is trending?

Thanks
MAX

Hopefully by working through the 20 sessions it should give you a good idea of each type of Formations.

The first detailed session was a B Formation. It has to be an M symbol and it will rise and fall.

An A Formation is similar to B only it will have the P symbol.

A D Formation is where the the symbols are evidently collapsing as shown by the OOO.

The C Formation is the most complicated and requires the most practice as for example it will be :

1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5 4 5 4 3 2 3 2 etc  when you come to work this out you could have +1 +2 +1 0 Now we assume

there is the beginning of a C Formation +1 +2 +1 the 4 has altered the sequence so now there is 2 3 4 the

assumption now is that C was a temporary phase and therefore resume say A  +2. The assumption was incorrect as

another 4 appeared so resume the C assuption again +1 +2 +3 +2. Now the 3 has reappeared. There is 5 4 3, so as

before will assume 2  and so on.

Often in a session there will be brief phases of C and then A B  or D will resume. If there is a prolonged C then

a break even result may be the answer. Occasionally there is a very useful C where you get : 1212121212 etc,

which will produce a nice profit and makes up for the 0 result.

Hope this helps

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
Hi Beo,

You are correct on both your queries.

I'm glad you like the website.

Regards

Richard

Edit 

Sorry Beo but I overlooked your query about the zero.

The zero is counted because you will have placed a bet after the second skip and as the result is zero
you therefore record the zero. Also zero is recorded as an entry and therefore part of the maximum
20 entry cut off.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 05:11:04 PM
Quote from: VBmonster on October 30, 2009, 04:54:57 PM
Hello Mr chips

Excuse me I don t want to spoil all this  and I do not have any intentions to start fights. 

BUT only 1 inisent question. 

Is there any logical reason why this system should work and give advantage?

VBM

thank u

Good question VBN I was wondering the same just as we like to know why something fails i think is equally important to understand why something works and apparantly it does the results spell it out

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 05:31:25 PM
Quote from: VBmonster on October 30, 2009, 04:54:57 PM
Hello Mr chips

Excuse me I don t want to spoil all this  and I do not have any intentions to start fights. 

BUT only 1 inisent question. 

Is there any logical reason why this system should work and give advantage?

VBM

thank u

Hi VBM,

There are plenty of logical reasons, but they may not seem apparent, until you  try to understand
what the system is about.

You would no doubt agree that trying to work out a series of B & R is extremely difficult and you will
no doubt say it is impossible.

What if instead we used symbols P and M. Now they are not like B & R, as with symbols it is possible
to create different Formations.

Lets say there is an A Formation which will start as P + 1

P+1  R
P+2  R
P+3  B
P+4  R
P+5  B

This is just a simple illustration, which shows that after P+1 the expectation is P+2 therefore the bet will be
on Red. The next expectation will be P+3, now for that to be correct the bet will be on Black and so on.

It is the movement of the symbols in their various Formations that enable sufficient correct results of identifying
R and B to make a profit in the long term.

There are 4 winning Formations A B C and D and 1 losing E. The Formations have to appear in one form or
other and a skilful player will make a profit in most sessions.

You may hate the idea of a roulette system, but I assure you it works exceptionally well and I have used it
in a great many casino's here in the UK, for several years.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: enrique malou on October 30, 2009, 05:37:24 PM
Vb monster, maybe you should test it and find out and
then when you have finished that, you may like to test
my stellar system and you can report your findings.
You would be doing the board a great service.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 08:16:57 PM
Richard you mention low high and middle groups what are their significance as are we not just playing FTL for our reference
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on October 30, 2009, 09:55:29 PM
Quote from: beo on October 30, 2009, 04:20:06 PM

Another question, what happened if we have to select numbers here :

26
32
3
8*
21
29
0* <== we can't select zero right ?   So I gess we select 32 ?
32

Beo



Quote from: Mr Chips on October 30, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
Hi Beo,

You are correct on both your queries.

Richard

Richard correct me if I am wrong. As the last select spin 8 is in Higher Group, we will skip two spins which are 21 and 29 and select the next spin for bet, which happens to be a zero and hence a loss. Isn't it right?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 02:00:13 AM
Bazee,

Of course your correct I overlooked it :-[

I will make a note in my original post and PM Beo.

Thanks for pointing out the error.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 02:30:06 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on October 30, 2009, 08:16:57 PM
Richard you mention low high and middle groups what are their significance as are we not just playing FTL for our reference

This has to do with my understanding of random numbers, which many people will disagree.

I don't want to get bogged down in a debate about random numbers, as I would rather spend
the time explaining about Signum.

Briefly I use 'sections' in 4Selecta, if you think of it in terms of a fisherman using different types
of nets to catch different sorts of fish. One net will not catch all the fish.

I use the skipping process for Signum, as it gives me the results I want for this type of system.

There is also the practical reason, as delays between spins gives you time to consider the session
especially when there is a check, when three units are recorded.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bo0Merang on October 31, 2009, 03:18:17 AM
Quote from: VBmonster on October 30, 2009, 08:03:56 PM
Ok ppl.

Lets hope that this system will make some money for u. . .

For me . . no thanks. . . I just like to know why I am winning.

VBM

thank u
This is funny,actualy i do sometimes the same think.I sometimes win as well..but i dont know why i win.Fact is that with more daily play i spend more and more time.Im arround 4 hours play  normaly....sometimes it killing me..even if i win im pissed 0ff, after certain time and  knowlege and enough practise.Im still not happy...
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on October 31, 2009, 06:46:45 AM
Hi Richard,
Having read through your website a few times, i have a fair idea of what to do but theres one thing thats slightly bugging me.  Which spin gets recorded in row 1? Is it the very first spin or the first select spin?

I ask this because in the main 'B' session on your site, its the first select spin thats recorded, and on all the other session examples its the actual very first spin of the permanance that gets recorded.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: VLSroulette on October 31, 2009, 07:47:37 AM
Hey Only1Word

Welcome to our forum, that post was more than 1 word! :)

Hope you have a fine time around.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on October 31, 2009, 08:38:16 AM
Thanks for the welcome Victor.
Having been observing various roulette forums for a while now, i must admit that this one stands head and shoulders above the rest.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: VLSroulette on October 31, 2009, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: Only1Word on October 31, 2009, 08:38:16 AM
Thanks for the welcome Victor.
Having been observing various roulette forums for a while now, I must admit that this one stands head and shoulders above the rest.
:)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on October 31, 2009, 09:16:39 AM
Quote from: enrique malou on October 30, 2009, 05:37:24 PM
Vb monster, maybe you should test it and find out and
then when you have finished that, you may like to test
my stellar system and you can report your findings.
You would be doing the board a great service.

I hope it's clearer than the signum system which is as clear as mud to me right now.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: elmo on October 31, 2009, 09:38:52 AM
Mr Chips,
This may be asking a bit much but would it be possible for you at some time in the future to make a video tutorial explaining what you are doing as you go along. I think this would be a great help to a lot of people. Some people can pick things up a lot quicker through a visual explanation as opposed to a written one.  I am one of those types and I suppose that is why I am asking the question.  :)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on October 31, 2009, 10:22:07 AM
Quote from: elmo on October 31, 2009, 09:38:52 AM
Mr Chips,
This may be asking a bit much but would it be possible for you at some time in the future to make a video tutorial explaining what you are doing as you go along. I think this would be a great help to a lot of people. Some people can pick things up a lot quicker through a visual explanation as opposed to a written one.  I am one of those types and I suppose that is why I am asking the question.  :)

If Mr. Chips is consistently and routinely relieving casinos of funds, then I doubt he would want to put a video of himself on the Internet.

I like good written explanations, which should not throw everything together all at once, they should explain the methodology step by step, and the rationale behind it, first you learn and practice this, then you learn and practice that, same as most teaching/academic models/lessons.

(I do have a few college degrees, so I am not a complete idiot, but I cannot fathom the signum system at all the way it is written-- at first glance anyway, though it may start to sink in after I read it a few more times.  I think it's a case of being so personally involved with the system that it all makes perfect sense to the author, while it is confusing to the reader. )
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Coxx16 on October 31, 2009, 10:51:09 AM
Hi Chips,

I have a few questions that I think would help add some clarity to the system. The questions that I am going to ask are going to be from the example listed from this page (. I need a few definitions.

Question 1

What are the clear definitions for M,P,OOO (what do they stand for)

Question 2

What conditions constitute M or P or 000. (Is it a particular pattern or a particular movement in a pattern? What are the exact conditions.)

Question 3

What conditions constitute the numerical increase or decrease in the M and P notations. (By that I mean, What conditions make an M-1 go to an M-2? (or vice versa)

Please list clear cut examples.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 12:56:34 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on October 31, 2009, 06:46:45 AM
Hi Richard,
Having read through your website a few times, I have a fair idea of what to do but theres one thing thats slightly bugging me.  Which spin gets recorded in row 1? Is it the very first spin or the first select spin?

I ask this because in the main 'B' session on your site, its the first select spin thats recorded, and on all the other session examples its the actual very first spin of the permanance that gets recorded.



OK I didn't grasp your query at first, but now I am with it (it's been a long day today  ::) )

Yes I will correct the problem. On page B2, I was illustrating the skipping process, then it didn't get carried
over to B3.

What I will do as the main 'B' is for a detailed explanation of a Signum session is take out 26 and just start
with 8 and just make it an example of a session.

I appreciate you bringing it to my attention, as I want the site to be as accurate as I can get it.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: elmo on October 31, 2009, 09:38:52 AM
Mr Chips,
This may be asking a bit much but would it be possible for you at some time in the future to make a video tutorial explaining what you are doing as you go along. I think this would be a great help to a lot of people. Some people can pick things up a lot quicker through a visual explanation as opposed to a written one.  I am one of those types and I suppose that is why I am asking the question.  :)

I have thought about a video tutorial, but someone else would have to do it ;)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Marven on October 31, 2009, 01:41:26 PM
Richard,

I have a question regarding your test results for Signum system if you don't mind.

All in all, how many bets were placed and what is the total profit that was made?

Thanks
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 01:45:12 PM
simon,

What you are suggesting is expand my explanation of the system by say a factor of 3 :o

I should then instead consider writing a book.

The way I look at it is this and I am not being difficult or ignoring the fact that it is a complex system
and requires a detailed explanation.

The way I am offering this free system is the way I worked it out over a very long period of time.
Sometimes two or three months went by before I worked out a piece of the puzzle. This system
believe it or not is half as complex, as the main Flagship system, which this system is in effect a
spin off version.

If there is a particular part of the system that you don't understand, I am prepared to try and
explain it in a way, that will make it easier for you and perhaps others to understand it.

I have to say though, there is really only one way to really get to grips with the system and
that's work through the 20 sessions, that I have provided and in their various Formations.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Coxx16 on October 31, 2009, 01:50:15 PM
  So you are saying that it is not possible to clearly define the singular elements of the system, then progressively explain how they tie into one another?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Tangram on October 31, 2009, 02:34:55 PM
QuoteSo you are saying that it is not possible to clearly define the singular elements of the system, then progressively explain how they tie into one another?

It would be great if Richard was able to answer your 3 questions, but as he says, he learned the system gradually over time, and has probably never thought about it in those terms. However, he's obviously put a lot of work into the site and I think it's possible to learn the "rules" (albeit with some Q & A posted here) from the examples and sessions he has shown. Maybe later someone will be able to state the rules explicitly.  :D
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: Coxx16 on October 31, 2009, 10:51:09 AM
Hi Chips,

I have a few questions that I think would help add some clarity to the system. The questions that I am going to ask are going to be from the example listed from this page (. I need a few definitions.

Question 1

What are the clear definitions for M,P,OOO (what do they stand for)

Question 2

What conditions constitute M or P or 000. (Is it a particular pattern or a particular movement in a pattern? What are the exact conditions.)

Question 3

What conditions constitute the numerical increase or decrease in the M and P notations. (By that I mean, What conditions make an M-1 go to an M-2? (or vice versa)

Please list clear cut examples.

Thank you!

Coxx,

Reply to question 1 : Please see reply 29. Also OOO is when a symbol has come to an end and a new symbol
has to be worked out.

Reply to question 2 : The example I gave of a detailed B Formation session line by line should provide you with
why a P symbol is selected and not M and visa versa. I will only repeat myself by explaining it again, but here we
go.

-1
0
-1
0  P+1

In order for a P to qualify as a P + 1 there has to be a duplication. After the second -1 there has to be 0 and
in this example, as there is a 0 then P + 1 will be noted.

-1
0
-1
-2  M-1

In order for a M to qualify as a M - 1 there must not be a duplication. After the second -1 there must not
be a 0 and a -2 will mean a M-1 can be noted.

Reply to question 3 :

+1
0
+1
0     P+1
+1   P+2
+2   P+1
+3   P+2
+4   P+3
+5   P+4

There was a decline from P+2 to P+1, as there was no duplication after + then 0 then +1 +2.
In addition to duplication P also on occasions will increase when a + or - number has appeared  for
the first time.

M as has been mentioned previously is the opposite of P.

I hope you find this of some additional help.

Regards

Richard


 

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on October 31, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 01:45:12 PM
I should then instead consider writing a book.

............ yes, write a book, I'll buy it.  well I guess some people are getting it, I guess it will all become clear eventually...
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: Tangram on October 31, 2009, 02:34:55 PM
It would be great if Richard was able to answer your 3 questions, but as he says, he learned the system gradually over time, and has probably never thought about it in those terms. However, he's obviously put a lot of work into the site and I think it's possible to learn the "rules" (albeit with some Q & A posted here) from the examples and sessions he has shown. Maybe later someone will be able to state the rules explicitly.  :D

Tangram,

Thanks for this post, which sums up my position.

If you fancy being the 'someone' let me know ;)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on October 31, 2009, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: simon on October 31, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
............ yes, write a book, I'll buy it.  well I guess some people are getting it, I guess it will all become clear eventually...

If I could find a co author I would seriously consider it, but it would be a mountain of work!
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Coxx16 on October 31, 2009, 04:02:30 PM
Thank you for the reply Chips :)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Marven on October 31, 2009, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: Marven on October 31, 2009, 01:41:26 PM
Richard,

I have a question regarding your test results for Signum system if you don't mind.

All in all, how many bets were placed and what is the total profit that was made?

Thanks

Bump. :)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 01, 2009, 02:03:17 AM
Quote from: Marven on October 31, 2009, 01:41:26 PM
Richard,

I have a question regarding your test results for Signum system if you don't mind.

All in all, how many bets were placed and what is the total profit that was made?

Thanks

I don't record number of bets as I am only interested in the actual profit from a session.

I am producing verifiable results on the website for 2009 and they should be completed
by January 2010.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 01, 2009, 09:45:36 AM
Hi this is my paly with signum system.   Mr.  Chips can you tel me: is this correct?

B/R  +/-/0    P/M    units
R  
R       +1
R       +2      P+1
B       +1      OOO
B       +2      P+1
R       +3      P+2     +1
B       +4      P+3     +2
B       +3      P+2     +1
R       +4      P+3     +2
B       +3      P+2     +1 ch
B       +4      P+3     +2 ch
R       +5      P+2     +3
B       +6      P+3     +4
R       +7      P+4     +5
B       +8      P+5     +6

here I not continue because 6 units is for me very good or I must continue?
please tell me if I play this system good. 


regards

Thomas. 
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 01, 2009, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 01, 2009, 09:45:36 AM
Hi this is my paly with signum system.   Mr.  Chips can you tel me: is this correct?

B/R  +/-/0    P/M    units
R  
R       +1
R       +2      P+1
B       +1      OOO
B       +2      P+1
R       +3      P+2     +1
B       +4      P+3     +2
B       +3      P+2     +1
R       +4      P+3     +2
B       +3      P+2     +1 ch
B       +4      P+3     +2 ch
R       +5      P+2     +3
B       +6      P+3     +4
R       +7      P+4     +5
B       +8      P+5     +6

here I not continue because 6 units is for me very good or I must continue?
please tell me if I play this system good. 


regards

Thomas. 

Hi Thomas.

You sort of  got a handle on the Signum, but I need to correct a few errors.

[table=,]
B/R,+/-/0,P/M,Units,ch
R,+1
R,+2,P+1,
B,+1,OOO,
B,+2,P+1
R,+1,P+2,-1
B,0,P+1,-2
B,+1,,
R,0,P+2,-1
B,-1,P+1,0
B,0,OOO,-1,ch
R,-1,P+1,
B,-2,OOO,0
R,-3,P+1
B,-4,P+2,-1
[/table]

So far there are 12 entries, which should give enough time to either make a profit
or break even.

Note that at present there is nothing above P+2. This can often be very useful in a
session and profitable.

If something is not clear let me know.

I will reply to your PM'S a bit later.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 01, 2009, 12:35:13 PM
There might be a possible error in session c1 (if i'm reading it right). . 
Row 15 shows P+5, should this be P+3?. . 
as row 14 shows a -3 under the +/-/0 column, and the previous -3 at row 12 resulted in a -2 at row 13.  As we are using a 'P' symbol, are we looking for a repeat of row 13 for the 'P' to increase to +5?
If so, then there was no repeat at row 15 (-4) which means the P should drop to +3.

I could be wrong of course but i thought i would bring this up.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 01, 2009, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 01, 2009, 12:35:13 PM
There might be a possible error in session c1 (if I'm reading it right). . 
Row 15 shows P+5, should this be P+3?. . 
as row 14 shows a -3 under the +/-/0 column, and the previous -3 at row 12 resulted in a -2 at row 13.  As we are using a 'P' symbol, are we looking for a repeat of row 13 for the 'P' to increase to +5?
If so, then there was no repeat at row 15 (-4) which means the P should drop to +3.

I could be wrong of course but I thought I would bring this up.



You are right, thanks for letting me know. I will correct it.

It should still work out at +3 units, as there is now a C Formation of

12  P+4  +1 CH
13  P+3    0
14  P+4  +1
15  P+3    0
16  P+4  +1
17  P+3  +2
18  P+4  +3
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 01, 2009, 03:58:24 PM
B/R   +/-/0   P/M   Units   ch
R   +1
R   +2   P+1   
B   +1   OOO   
B   +2   P+1
R   +1   P+2   -1
B   0   P+1   -2
B   +1      
R   0   P+2   -1
B   -1   P+1   0
B   0   OOO   -1   ch
R   -1   P+1   
B   -2   OOO   0
R   -3   P+1
B   -4   P+2   -1


at row 5 we have +2 why? in row 2 we have +2 as well but color was R,so on next spin we assume +2 and opposite color black? and here is color R and +1 so we have P+2 no?or when came OOO spin before OOO we dont count?

at row 6 we have opposite color but P is going down. . why? because +/-/0 is 0 and previous +/-/0 was +1 and is higher?


why we note count P in row 7


at row 8 is 0 and previous 0 was in row 6 and is followed by +1 at row and color was B,so we assume that in row 9 come opposite number and +1 because we want that P will be higher. . . i think I understnad this system reverse
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 01, 2009, 05:18:16 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 01, 2009, 03:58:24 PM
B/R   +/-/0   P/M   Units   ch
R   +1
R   +2   P+1   
B   +1   OOO   
B   +2   P+1
R   +1   P+2   -1
B   0   P+1   -2
B   +1      
R   0   P+2   -1
B   -1   P+1   0
B   0   OOO   -1   ch
R   -1   P+1   
B   -2   OOO   0
R   -3   P+1
B   -4   P+2   -1


at row 5 we have +2 why? in row 2 we have +2 as well but color was R,so on next spin we assume +2 and opposite color black? and here is color R and +1 so we have P+2 no?or when came OOO spin before OOO we dont count?

at row 6 we have opposite color but P is going down. . why? because +/-/0 is 0 and previous +/-/0 was +1 and is higher?


why we note count P in row 7


at row 8 is 0 and previous 0 was in row 6 and is followed by +1 at row and color was B,so we assume that in row 9 come opposite number and +1 because we want that P will be higher. . . I think I understnad this system reverse

You also have +2, so I can't understand your query here.

Your first error was at row 6. After B +2 there should have been R + 1, if there had been another B then
it would have been B + 3.

If you make errors in column 2 it will effect the rest of the session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 01, 2009, 10:19:55 PM
Richard, I have following questions for you:

Question 1)

How do you select a spin after a "Zero loss"?

Example:

11*
0  <--- Loss
32
14
1  <--- Do you select this spin?

Question 2)

Why did you apply the symbol M-1 in the sixth row (instead of third) in your elaborated example? In all other examples you applied the symbol (P or M) in the third row (except for session C3 where row three was a zero). The first three rows of session A3 are identicle to your elaborate example and you have applied M-1 in the third row (in session A3). What prompted you to wait till sixth row in the elaborated example?

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 02, 2009, 02:38:19 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on November 01, 2009, 10:19:55 PM
Richard, I have following questions for you:

Question 1)

How do you select a spin after a "Zero loss"?

Example:

11*
0  <--- Loss
32
14
1  <--- Do you select this spin?

Question 2)

Why did you apply the symbol M-1 in the sixth row (instead of third) in your elaborated example? In all other examples you applied the symbol (P or M) in the third row (except for session C3 where row three was a zero). The first three rows of session A3 are identicle to your elaborate example and you have applied M-1 in the third row (in session A3). What prompted you to wait till sixth row in the elaborated example?



11*
0
32*
14
1*

After 0 it will go to the next spin.

Yes I will have correct the elaborate example. There are two versions of this system and I have
shown the other version. Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 02, 2009, 03:24:54 AM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 02, 2009, 02:38:19 AM

Yes I will have correct the elaborate example. There are two versions of this system and I have
shown the other version. Thanks for pointing it out.


That takes lot of thinking out and makes the things easy :). Thanks for the answers.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 02, 2009, 03:52:25 AM
Richard I have a PM for you but I would like to ask you

Is this systrem subjective on some bets  if the two of us played the same spins at the same time would we be placing same decisions
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 02, 2009, 10:20:09 AM
Unfortunately an error in the detailed explanation of the B Formation session has meant
it has continued through the session and I will have to amend it.

It is a pain, but the upside is I will take the opportunity to try and make the explanations
more 'user friendly', I did say try lol and I will also take on board the comments and suggestions
made by members in this thread. I will include a page or two titled 'intro to symbols P & M.

I apologise to those of you who have copied the pages, but hopefully the amended version will be
much easier to understand.

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 02, 2009, 10:27:28 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on November 02, 2009, 03:52:25 AM
Richard I have a PM for you but I would like to ask you

Is this systrem subjective on some bets  if the two of us played the same spins at the same time would we be placing same decisions

We should  most of the time. The most difficult Formation is C and it does require some practice, with
these sessions to make sufficient good decisions and make a small profit or break even.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 02, 2009, 05:24:15 PM
Richard this is just  an idea and maybe too much extra work for you
Maybe you can do a  worked example on each formation  explaining why  you bet just as in your B sample so to speak
Might help make it alot clearer to us dummies lol

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 03, 2009, 04:13:03 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on November 02, 2009, 05:24:15 PM
Richard this is just  an idea and maybe too much extra work for you
Maybe you can do a  worked example on each formation  explaining why  you bet just as in your B sample so to speak
Might help make it alot clearer to us dummies lol

Regards Rodney

I am hoping the addition of the 'intro to P&M will greatly help in the explanation of the system,
but I will keep your suggestion in mind.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 05, 2009, 03:09:23 AM
I have made the necessary corrections to the website and there is an 'Intro to P & M',
which I hope will assist in helping to understand the system.

I also hope that the website is now free of errors, but if there are any please let me
know.

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 05, 2009, 03:43:35 AM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 05, 2009, 03:09:23 AM
I have made the necessary corrections to the website and there is an 'Intro to P & M',
which I hope will assist in helping to understand the system.

I also hope that the website is now free of errors, but if there are any please let me
know.

Richard
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mogwai on November 05, 2009, 04:13:26 AM
Mr Chips this looks interesting, thanks for sharing. I hope I will understand it...

You think this could be applied to other E/C games like Baccarat?

My Best Regards
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 05, 2009, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: Mogwai on November 05, 2009, 04:13:26 AM
Mr Chips this looks interesting, thanks for sharing. I hope I will understand it...

You think this could be applied to other E/C games like Baccarat?

My Best Regards

I have never played Baccaret, so I am not sure if it could be applied to that game,
but I understand there are similarities between Baccaret and EC B & R.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 05, 2009, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 05, 2009, 04:39:46 PM
I have never played Baccaret, so I am not sure if it could be applied to that game,
but I understand there are similarities between Baccaret and EC B & R.

Richard as we know the good thing about bac is the lower casino edge and the game moves quicker tho  rapid  roulette is quicker

Rodney
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 05, 2009, 08:17:47 PM
Hi Richard, i just picked out a random day from Wiesbaden 1/8/2006 to see if i could chart this correctly, but have run into something im not sure about. . .

Row  #     BorR   +/-/0  P or M  units +/-
1       4        B
2     16        R      -1
3     27        R       0       P+1
4     20        B      -1
5     29        B       0       P+2
6       3        R      -1       P+3      +1
7     12        R       0       P+4      +2
8     15        B      -1       P+5      +3
9     33        B       0       P+6      +4
10      1        R      -1       P+7      +5
11    17        B      -2       P+6      +4

So for the next spin we would bet on P to decline after reaching a peak of +7?
but im slightly confused here as to which colour to bet next?, with no previous -2.
For the record the next select spin was 36 red, that would make the fourth column -3.  Would that make it P+5 or P+7?

Im sorry if i sound like a dim wit  ;D
Thanks
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 06, 2009, 10:15:43 AM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 05, 2009, 08:17:47 PM
Hi Richard, I just picked out a random day from Wiesbaden 1/8/2006 to see if I could chart this correctly, but have run into something im not sure about. . .

Row  #     BorR   +/-/0  P or M  units +/-
1       4        B
2     16        R      -1
3     27        R       0       P+1
4     20        B      -1
5     29        B       0       P+2
6       3        R      -1       P+3      +1
7     12        R       0       P+4      +2
8     15        B      -1       P+5      +3
9     33        B       0       P+6      +4
10      1        R      -1       P+7      +5
11    17        B      -2       P+6      +4

So for the next spin we would bet on P to decline after reaching a peak of +7?
but im slightly confused here as to which colour to bet next?, with no previous -2.
For the record the next select spin was 36 red, that would make the fourth column -3.  Would that make it P+5 or P+7?

Im sorry if I sound like a dim wit  ;D
Thanks

You are definitely getting a handle on the system, it's just understanding how P & M function.

In order for there to be a P symbol there has to be duplication or a new +/- number.

M symbol is the opposite of P and will not want duplication and if for example a -3 has shown
for the first time then M will want -2.

The above of course applies when both symbols are in ascent.

When the symbols are in decline, then P is in effect in M mode and M in P mode. We can make a
profit from the movement of the symbols and place bets on Red and Black depending on the
ascent and descent of the symbols, at any given time in a session.

I will set out below the session 1.08.06 you gave above and if you have any further questions
let me know.

[table=,]
Row,#,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,4,B,,,
2,16,R,-1,,
3,27,R,0,M-1,
4,20,B,-1,,,
5,29,B,0,OOO,,
6,3,R,-1,P+1,
7,12,R,0,P+2,+1
8,15,B,-1,P+3,+2
9,33,B,0,P+4,+3
10,1,R,-1,P+5,+4
11,17,B,-2,P+4,+3
12,13,B,-1,P+3,+4
13,36,R,-2,P+4,+3,check
14,30,R,-1,P+5,+4,check
15,32,R,0,P+4,+5
16,5,R,+1,P+3,+6
17,16,R,+2,P+4,+7
18,30,R,+3,P+5,+8
19,34,R,+4,P+6,+7
[/table]

You will see the

P+5
P+4
P+3
P+4
P+5
P+4
P+3
P+4
P+5

sequence and the sequence of Reds. This is all useful info, which you become more and more
aware of with practice.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 06, 2009, 03:23:41 PM
Thanks for the explanation of the session.  It makes a lot more sense now.  Practice is definately the correct word here.  I'll give another day from wiesbaden a bash later.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 06, 2009, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: Natural9 on November 05, 2009, 05:20:44 PM
Richard as we know the good thing about bac is the lower casino edge and the game moves quicker tho  rapid  roulette is quicker

Rodney

Hi Rodney

Just out of interest I applied Signum to a couple Baccaret sessions, which I came across in the Bac section
and got +6 and +4. As I mentioned I know zero about the game and what is considered a reasonable
profit. I don't know how the T fits in. Anyway if there is any interest in applying Signum to Baccaret I will
continue this in the Bac section.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 06, 2009, 05:09:39 PM
Hi all.I think now I understand this system.Here are 40 numbers from my casino.


Numbers    Select numbers          Black/Red
16*                    16                           R  
8                            
29    
33*                    33                           B
30
17*                    17                           B
13
31
27*                    27                           R
6
5
17*                    17                           B
18
33
31*                    31                           B
35
10*                    10                           B
33*                    33                           B
35
36*                    36                           R
25
6
20*                    20                           B
1*                      1                             R
35*                    35                           B
2
16
25*                    25                           R
17
14
19*                   19                            R
13*                   13                            B
8
33*                   33                            B
5
35*                   35                            B
0      
11
18
35*                   35                            B


So we have this stats:

Number          Black/Red         +/-/0       P&M       units
16                       R                    
33                       B                    -1            
17                       B                     0          M-1
27                       R                    -1        
17                       B                    -2         000
31                       B                    -1         M-1
10                       B                     0         M-2           +1
33                       B                   +1         M-3           +2
36                       R                     0         M-4           +3
20                       B                    -1         M-5           +4
1                         R                    -2         M-6           +5
35                       B                    -3         M-7           +6
25                       R                    -4         M-6           +5
19                       R                    -3         M-7           +4
13                       B                    -4         M-6           +3
33                       B                    -3         M-5           +4 check
35                       B                    -2         M-6           +3 check
35                       B                    -1         M-7           +4


What you think Chips? It`s right?

regards

Thomas.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 06, 2009, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 06, 2009, 04:53:32 PM
Hi Rodney

Just out of interest I applied Signum to a couple Baccaret sessions, which I came across in the Bac section
and got +6 and +4. As I mentioned I know zero about the game and what is considered a reasonable
profit. I don't know how the T fits in. Anyway if there is any interest in applying Signum to Baccaret I will
continue this in the Bac section.

Regards

Richard

Well for one there is no groups in baccarat as far as the tie is concerned just ignore it for the system
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 06, 2009, 06:37:49 PM
Here is my second game and i think is C Formation.

11          B         
5            R        -1
19          R         0        M-1
0                       -1
8            B        -2       M-2
3            R        -3       M-1     -1
18          R        -2       M-2     -2
28          B        -3       M-1     -3
0                                           -4
27          R        -4       M-2     -3
2            B        -5       M-1     -2
19          R        -6       000     -1
25          R        -5       M-1
17          B        -6       000     -2 check
16          R        -7       P+1
35          B        -8       P+2
28          B        -7       P+1     -3 check
22          B        -6       000     -2
33          B        -5       M-1
6            B        -4       M-2     -1
11          B        -3       M-3      0
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 06, 2009, 07:11:27 PM
And here is my third game :


4      B
15    B   +1
12    R     0     M-1
31    B    -1   
22    B     0     M-2
14    R    -1     M-1  -1
18    R     0     000    0
24    B    -1     P+1
16    R    -2     000  -1
23    R    -1     M-1
20    B    -2     000  +1
3      R    -3     P+1
30    R    -2     000   +2
24    R    -1     M-1
23    R     0     000   +3
34    R    +1    P+1
23    R    +2    000   +4
3      R    +3    P+1 
2      B    +2    000   +4
35    B    +3    P+1
17    B    +4    000   +5
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 06, 2009, 07:38:23 PM
Hi Thomas,

In your 1st session at the end when you are selecting the numbers you have to include the 0.

35*
0
11
18*

If 35 had been a Lower number the 0 would have been recorded as a loss.

[table=,]
+/-/0,P or M,Units
-1,,
0,M-1,
-1,,
-2,M-2,
-1,M-3,+1
0,M-4,+2
+1,M-5,+3
0,M-6,+4
-1,M-7,+5
-2,M-8,+6
-3,M-9,+7
-4,M-8,+6
-3,M-9,+7
-4,M-8,+6
-3,M-7,+7 check
[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 06, 2009, 08:17:48 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 06, 2009, 06:37:49 PM
Here is my second game and I think is C Formation.

11          B         
5            R        -1
19          R         0        M-1
0                       -1
8            B        -2       M-2
3            R        -3       M-1     -1
18          R        -2       M-2     -2
28          B        -3       M-1     -3
0                                           -4
27          R        -4       M-2     -3
2            B        -5       M-1     -2
19          R        -6       000     -1
25          R        -5       M-1
17          B        -6       000     -2 check
16          R        -7       P+1
35          B        -8       P+2
28          B        -7       P+1     -3 check
22          B        -6       000     -2
33          B        -5       M-1
6            B        -4       M-2     -1
11          B        -3       M-3      0

Under the +/-0 column the 0 is not taken into account it only applies to R & B. The 0 will of course
be counted as a loss in the other columns, where applicable.

[table=,]
B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
B,,,
R,-1,,
R,0,M-1,
0,,,
B,-1,,
R,-2,M-2
R,-1,M-3,+1
B,-2,M-2,0
0,,,-1
R,-3,M-3,-2
B,-4,M-2,-3
R,-5,M-1,-2
R,-4,M-2,-1
B,-5,M-1,-2 check
R,-6,M-2,-1
B,-7,M-1,0
B,-6,M-2,+1
B,-5,M-3,0
B,-4,M-4,-1 check
B,-3,M-5,0 check
[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 06, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Hi Mr Chips - do I have this right?

P mode: sequences moving away from 0 (+1,+2,+3,+4  or -1,-2,-3,-4)
        and repetition (-3,-4,-3,-4)

M mode: sequences moving toward 0 (-3,-2,-1,0  or +4,+3,+2,+1)
        and non-repetition (+3,+2,+1,+2)

P mode applied to a P makes the P count go up
M mode applied to a P makes the P count go down

P mode applied to a M makes the M count go down
M mode applied to a M makes the M count go up


Thanks
droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 07, 2009, 05:57:19 AM
OK.Thanks.And the third game was correct? I will try because I think now I understand it.


Here is my fourth game:

33  B
14  R   -1
7    R    0    M-1
15  B   -1   
10  B    0    000  -1
21  R   -1    P+1
5    R    0    P+2   0
28  B   -1    P+3  +1
34  R   -2    P+2   0
35  B   -3    P+3  -1
9    R   -4    P+4  -2
11  B   -5    P+5  -1
9    R   -6    P+6   0
27  R   -5    P+5  -1
32  R   -4    P+4   0
21  R   -3    P+3  +1
21  R   -2    P+2  +2
9    R   -1    P+1  +3
27  R    0    000   +4
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 07, 2009, 08:51:24 AM
Quote from: bene126 on November 06, 2009, 07:11:27 PM
And here is my third game :


4      B
15    B   +1
12    R     0     M-1
31    B    -1   
22    B     0     M-2
14    R    -1     M-1  -1
18    R     0     000    0
24    B    -1     P+1
16    R    -2     000  -1
23    R    -1     M-1
20    B    -2     000  +1
3      R    -3     P+1
30    R    -2     000   +2
24    R    -1     M-1
23    R     0     000   +3
34    R    +1    P+1
23    R    +2    000   +4
3      R    +3    P+1 
2      B    +2    000   +4
35    B    +3    P+1
17    B    +4    000   +5

Unfortunately there was an error in row 14 as 24 R should be 24B.

Also the following :

[table=,]
row,B or R,+/-/0,P or M
9,R,-2,OOO
10,R,-1,M-1
11,B,-2,000
12,R,-3,M-1
[/table]

Often when a new number appears and is in ascent it will refer to P, but 3 is part of the duplication
P or M process and the -3 creates a M.

[table=,]
Row,#,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,14,B,,,
2,15,B,+1,,,
3,12,R,0,M-1,
4,31,B,-1,,
5,22,B,0,M-2
6,14,R,-1,M-1,-1
7,18,R,0,OOO,-2
8,24,B,-1,P+1,
9,16,R,-2,OOO,-3
10,23,R,-1,M-1,
11,20,B,-2,OOO,-2
12,3,R,-3,M-1,
13,30,R,-2,M-2,-3
14,24,B,-3,M-1,-2,check
15,23,R,-4,M-2,-1
16,34,R,-3,M-3,-2
17,23,R,-2,M-4,-1,check
18,3,R,-1,M-5,0
19,2,B,-2,M-4,-1
20,35,B,-1,M-3,0
[/table]

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 07, 2009, 09:09:07 AM
Yes you are right.Sorry I must bad see :D... here is my fifth game I hope that this will be correct
22  B
11  B  +1
2    B  +2  P+1
25  R  +1  000  -1
5    R  +2  P+1
26  B  +1  000   0
12  R   0   M-1
20  B   -1  
15  B   0   000  +1
12  R   -1  P+1
30  R   -2  000  +2
15  B   -3  P+1
16  R   -4  P+2  +1
14  R   -3  P+1  0
22  B   -4  P+2  -1
19  R   -5  P+1  0
26  B   -6  P+2  +1
25  R   -7  P+3   0
21  R   -6  P+2  -1
30  R   -5  P+1  0
14  R   -4  000  +1
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 07, 2009, 09:14:24 AM
Quote from: droidman on November 06, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Hi Mr Chips - do I have this right?

P mode: sequences moving away from 0 (+1,+2,+3,+4  or -1,-2,-3,-4)
        and repetition (-3,-4,-3,-4)

M mode: sequences moving toward 0 (-3,-2,-1,0  or +4,+3,+2,+1)
        and non-repetition (+3,+2,+1,+2)

P mode applied to a P makes the P count go up
M mode applied to a P makes the P count go down

P mode applied to a M makes the M count go down
M mode applied to a M makes the M count go up


Thanks
droidman


Hi droidman,

It appears to be a concise way of explaining the function of P & M and will be helpful I am sure
to many people. The M mode non repetition should show (+3,+4,+3,+2) just to show the +3,+4
cannot be repeated if there is to be an M.

Thanks for posting it.

Regards

Richard

T
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 07, 2009, 10:39:44 AM
Quote from: bene126 on November 07, 2009, 05:57:19 AM
OK.Thanks.And the third game was correct? I will try because I think now I understand it.


Here is my fourth game:

33  B
14  R   -1
7    R    0    M-1
15  B   -1   
10  B    0    000  -1
21  R   -1    P+1
5    R    0    P+2   0
28  B   -1    P+3  +1
34  R   -2    P+2   0
35  B   -3    P+3  -1
9    R   -4    P+4  -2
11  B   -5    P+5  -1
9    R   -6    P+6   0
27  R   -5    P+5  -1
32  R   -4    P+4   0
21  R   -3    P+3  +1
21  R   -2    P+2  +2
9    R   -1    P+1  +3
27  R    0    000   +4

Hi Thomas,

You went in at row 5, instead of row 7?

This was an excellent session, great trend, with P ending OOO.

[table=,]
Row,#,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,33,B,,,
2,14,R,-1,,
3,7,R,0,M-1,
4,15,B,-1,,,
5,10,B,0,OOO,
6,21,R,-1,P+1
7,5,R,0,P+2,+1
8,28,B,-1,P+3,+2
9,34,R,-2,P+2,+1
10,35,B,-3,P+3,0
11,9,R,-4,P+4,+1,check
12,11,B,-5,P+5,+2
13,9,R,-6,P+6,+3
14,27,R,-5,P+5,+2,check
15,32,R,-4,P+4,+3
16,21,R,-3,P+3,+4
17,21,R,-2,P+2,+5
18,9,R,-1,P+1,+6
19,27,R,0,OOO,+7
[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 07, 2009, 11:05:33 AM
So only what i must learn better is presuming trend and it will be good.What you think?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 07, 2009, 05:21:52 PM
The more sessions posted here with explanations from Richard and others coupled with his site the better

We will be able to eventually get a handle on it
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 08, 2009, 04:43:22 AM
Quote from: bene126 on November 07, 2009, 09:09:07 AM
Yes you are right.Sorry I must bad see :D... here is my fifth game I hope that this will be correct
22  B
11  B  +1
2    B  +2  P+1
25  R  +1  000  -1
5    R  +2  P+1
26  B  +1  000   0
12  R   0   M-1
20  B   -1  
15  B   0   000  +1
12  R   -1  P+1
30  R   -2  000  +2
15  B   -3  P+1
16  R   -4  P+2  +1
14  R   -3  P+1  0
22  B   -4  P+2  -1
19  R   -5  P+1  0
26  B   -6  P+2  +1
25  R   -7  P+3   0
21  R   -6  P+2  -1
30  R   -5  P+1  0
14  R   -4  000  +1

Hi Thomas,

I think you are well on the way to understanding the Signum system. There are some errors,
but with practice they should be sorted out.

I have corrected sessions 1 to 4 can you correct your 5th game. There are 2 faults in the P column.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 08, 2009, 12:54:22 PM
Is this correct Mr Chips?

Wiesbaden  4/8/06  Tb3

Row   #    BorR     +/-/0    PorM   Unit +/-
1      34     R
2      32     R          +1
3       8      B            0        M-1
4       8      B          +1
5      18     R            0        000
6      23     R          +1        P+1
7       6      B            0        P+2       +1
8      26     B          +1        P+3       +2
9      34     R            0        P+4       +3
10     18     R          +1        P+5       +4
11     11     B            0        P+6       +5
12     36     R           -1        P+5       +4
13     27     R            0        P+4       +5
14     30     R          +1        P+3       +6
15      5      R          +2        P+2       +7
16     18     R          +3        P+3       +6
17      7      R          +4        P+4       +7
18      4      B          +3        P+3       +6    ch
19     12     R          +2        P+2       +7    ch
20     36     R          +3        P+3       +6
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 08, 2009, 01:21:44 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 08, 2009, 12:54:22 PM
Is this correct Mr Chips?

Wiesbaden  4/8/06  Tb3

Row   #    BorR     +/-/0    PorM   Unit +/-
1      34     R
2      32     R          +1
3       8      B            0        M-1
4       8      B          +1
5      18     R            0        000
6      23     R          +1        P+1
7       6      B            0        P+2       +1
8      26     B          +1        P+3       +2
9      34     R            0        P+4       +3
10     18     R          +1        P+5       +4
11     11     B            0        P+6       +5
12     36     R           -1        P+5       +4
13     27     R            0        P+4       +5
14     30     R          +1        P+3       +6
15      5      R          +2        P+2       +7
16     18     R          +3        P+3       +6
17      7      R          +4        P+4       +7
18      4      B          +3        P+3       +6    ch
19     12     R          +2        P+2       +7    ch
20     36     R          +3        P+3       +6

Excellent, completely correct :thumbsup:

You have the honour of being the second person in the world to show a perfect Signum session
I was the first lol.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 08, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
1    R
29  B  -1
4    B   0  M-1
16  R  -1
35  B  -2  M-2
18  R  -3  M-1 -1
3    R  -2  M-2 -2
9    R  -1  M-3 -1
15  B  -2  M-2 -2
1    R  -3  M-3 -3


I played this for real money at casino in my betting account.I stoped it here.What you think it`s correct or no?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 08, 2009, 03:55:56 PM
4      B
7      R    -1
12    R     0    M-1
27    R   +1
18    R   +2    000
17    B   +1    P+1
35    B   +2    P+2    +1
12    R   +1    P+3    +2
33    B      0    P+2   +1
20    B    +1    P+3     0
36    R      0    P+4    +1
36    R    +1    P+5    +2
6      B       0    P+6    +3
23    R     -1     P+5    +2
11    B     -2     P+6    +1
22    B     -1     P+5    +2
16    R     -2    P+6     +3
17    B     -3     P+5    +4
8      B     -2     P+4    +3
17    B     -1     P+3    +4
19    R     -2     P+4    +3
14    R     -1      P+5   +4
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 08, 2009, 04:38:28 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 08, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
1    R
29  B  -1
4    B   0  M-1
16  R  -1
35  B  -2  M-2
18  R  -3  M-1 -1
3    R  -2  M-2 -2
9    R  -1  M-3 -1
15  B  -2  M-2 -2
1    R  -3  M-3 -3


I played this for real money at casino in my betting account.I stoped it here.What you think it`s correct or no?

I have said on the website do not play this complex system for real at a casino until you have practiced
many, many sessions.

The above is correct so far and is likely to be a C session the most difficult to handle and therefore requires a
a number practice sessions.

I do not recommend playing this system at a  casino until you are proficient in it's use.

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 08, 2009, 05:49:45 PM
Hi Richard,

good to see you here again with your new complex system  :laugh: But so great!

I think I understand most of the system but the most complicated thing is how to bet I think. I undersood the example in your website but I need more examples with an explanation bet by bet. So if someone can explain step by step how to bet, it would be nice not only for me but also for those who want to get the system.

Thanks all
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 08, 2009, 05:56:01 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 08, 2009, 04:38:28 PM
I have said on the website do not play this complex system for real at a casino until you have practiced
many, many sessions.

The above is correct so far and is likely to be a C session the most difficult to handle and therefore requires a
a number practice sessions.

I do not recommend playing this system at a  casino until you are proficient in it's use.

Richard

Yes i know what you said..I lost only 3 units and i will be play again.I am only want if was be correct because i understnad this system now.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 09, 2009, 01:32:24 AM
Quote from: bene126 on November 08, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
1    R
29  B  -1
4    B   0  M-1
16  R  -1
35  B  -2  M-2
18  R  -3  M-1 -1
3    R  -2  M-2 -2
9    R  -1  M-3 -1
15  B  -2  M-2 -2
1    R  -3  M-3 -3


I played this for real money at casino in my betting account.I stoped it here.What you think it`s correct or no?
Bene you need post the rem aining  numbers I not sure if this session should be abandoned
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 09, 2009, 10:16:38 AM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 08, 2009, 12:54:22 PM


Wiesbaden  4/8/06  Tb3

Row   #    BorR     +/-/0    PorM   Unit +/-
1      34     R
2      32     R          +1
3       8      B            0        M-1
4       8      B          +1
5      18     R            0        000
6      23     R          +1        P+1
7       6      B            0        P+2       +1
8      26     B          +1        P+3       +2
9      34     R            0        P+4       +3
10     18     R          +1        P+5       +4
11     11     B            0        P+6       +5
12     36     R           -1        P+5       +4
13     27     R            0        P+4       +5
14     30     R          +1        P+3       +6
15      5      R          +2        P+2       +7
16     18     R          +3        P+3       +6
17      7      R          +4        P+4       +7
18      4      B          +3        P+3       +6    ch
19     12     R          +2        P+2       +7    ch
20     36     R          +3        P+3       +6

Hi Nherisson,

So 4Selecta is not enough for you ;D

I will use the session produce by Only1Word.

In row 6 column 4 there is +1 and in column 5  P+1. The expectation is that, as P is new
it will increase to +2, therefore in order for that to happen there has to be duplication, as
then P will be in ascent. At row 4 there is +1, 0, so we want a repeat +1 0.

In row 7 in order to achieve a 0 in column 4 the bet has to be on Black and this was the
correct decision.

Signum will often identify the correct colour in quite a complex colour series and for this
reason it has to make a profit in the long term.

Regards

Richard

To Everyone,

I have said on the website that if Signum is thoroughly understood it can make
roulette into a skilled game, but unless effort is made to fully understand the system
then it will be useless and remains a game of chance.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 09, 2009, 05:54:12 PM
Ok Mr Chips, thanks!

But can you tell me general rules to explain how to bet? or more examples because it's quite unclear for me for the moment...

For example, what would be the bets for this session:

20      
13   +1   
  2   +2   P+1
19   +1   0O0
  1   +2   P+1
19   +3   0O0
  1   +4   P+1
30   +5   P+2
  7   +6   P+3
22   +5   P+2
  9   +4   P+1
  7   +5   P+2
11   +4   P+3
17   +5   P+4
25   +4   P+5
26   +3   P+4
18   +2   P+3
18   +3   P+4
27   +4   P+3
32   +5   P+2


Many thanks


Nherisson
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 10, 2009, 01:23:55 AM
Hi Richard!

I know these are generalizations, but are they correct?

after the 1st zero, don't make a P or M symbol
after any 000 make a P or M symbol, but don't bet
after 1st +/- number, make a P or M symbol
after 3rd P or M symbol (except 000), make 1st bet

Thanks
droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 10, 2009, 04:09:56 AM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 09, 2009, 05:54:12 PM
Ok Mr Chips, thanks!

But can you tell me general rules to explain how to bet? or more examples because it's quite unclear for me for the moment...

For example, what would be the bets for this session:

20      
13   +1   
  2   +2   P+1
19   +1   0O0
  1   +2   P+1
19   +3   0O0
  1   +4   P+1
30   +5   P+2
  7   +6   P+3
22   +5   P+2
  9   +4   P+1
  7   +5   P+2
11   +4   P+3
17   +5   P+4
25   +4   P+5
26   +3   P+4
18   +2   P+3
18   +3   P+4
27   +4   P+3
32   +5   P+2


Many thanks


Nherisson


[table=,]
Row,#,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,20,B,,,
2,13,B,+1,,
3,2,B,+2,P+1,
4,19,R,+1,OOO,
5,1,R,+2,P+1,
6,19,R*,+3,OOO,+1
7,1,R,+4,P+1,
8,30,R,+5,P+2,0
9,7,R*,+6,P+3,+1
10,22,B,+5,P+2,0
11,9,R*,+4,P+1,+1,check
12,7,R*,+5,P+2,+2
13,11,B*,+4,P+3,+3
14,17,B*,+5,P+4,+4
15,25,R*,+4,P+5,+5
16,26,B,+3,P+4,+4
17,18,R*,+2,P+3,+5
18,18,R,+3,P+4,+4,check
[/table]
* correct bets

P ended in row 4 and in row 5 a new P+1 emerged. The expectation is for this also to end
and therefore to achieve that result in row 6 column 3 you would want a Red to come in,
which would increase column 4 to +3 and so end P, as there would be no duplication.

In row 8 the bet on B was incorrect, as P did not end as happened previously, so the
expectation is for P to ascend in row 9. You would want an increase from +5 to +6 and
therefore the bet would be on another Red coming in.

In row 10 P is in decline showing P+2, the expectation is for this to continue to P+1.
You would not want duplication, +5,+6,+5,+6, as this would result in a P+3 and the
B+5 in row 10 would increase to B+6 in row 11. The bet has to be on Red for P to decline
to P+1 in row 11.

Row 12 is tricky, as a decision has to be made as to whether P will end here or not. There
are the previous results, where P has ended and if this was to end at row 12, then this
session is likely to be a D Formation. If the P ascent had reached say +5 instead of +3,
I would have expected P to end, but as the ascent was short, I am inclined to favour a
continuance of P. If this was shown to be incorrect, then that would be further evidence
of a D Formation and future decisions would be guided by this assumption.

Hopefully you will be able to understand how the rest of the B or R are selected.

I would have ended the session at row 18 where there is a check at +4. A +5 has appeared
twice, and the gamble was that row 18 would produce a +6 and as this did not happen I
would be content with a +4 profit.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 10, 2009, 04:51:20 AM
Quote from: droidman on November 10, 2009, 01:23:55 AM
Hi Richard!

I know these are generalizations, but are they correct?

after the 1st zero, don't make a P or M symbol
after any 000 make a P or M symbol, but don't bet
after 1st +/- number, make a P or M symbol
after 3rd P or M symbol (except 000), make 1st bet

Thanks
droidman


Hi droidman,

At first I misunderstood 'after the first zero' and have corrected it. What you mean is in the +/-/0
column after the first zero it is not possible to make a P or M. True.

The next two appear to be correct.

There is a problem with your last generalisation.

There are the following :

P+1
OOO
P+1
OOO +1


M-1
M-2
M-3 +1

P+1
000
P+1
P+2 -1

Regards

Richard

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 10, 2009, 07:51:39 AM
Thanks, Your reasoning for your decision at row 12 in the previous example clears things up.  After practicing a few sessions, i have come across those situations a few times now and at times it was difficult to decide which way to go.

I do have a question though. .
If we came to a tricky situation where a case could be made to bet either way, then could it be plausible just to not bet next and see which way the symbol goes, and then continue after?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 10, 2009, 09:08:53 AM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 10, 2009, 07:51:39 AM
Thanks, Your reasoning for your decision at row 12 in the previous example clears things up.  After practicing a few sessions, I have come across those situations a few times now and at times it was difficult to decide which way to go.

I do have a question though. .
If we came to a tricky situation where a case could be made to bet either way, then could it be plausible just to not bet next and see which way the symbol goes, and then continue after?

Yes of course you can always not bet. When your at a Table at the casino and you happen to have noted
a number of Lower group numbers, which will mean continuous spins, it may make sense to take a break
from betting especially if it's on a check line.

As your getting more experienced playing through various sessions and you come across a tricky situation
try and get some information from the session. What I mean by that is for example if your at entry 12 and
there has been no increase above P+3 and it has developed into a C session, always expect it to decline
to P+2. Also take account of any patterns in B & R, there are occasions when they can be useful in confirming
an expectation. You will even find a pattern in the units sometimes helps, which seems at first ridiculous, but
I have been helped out this way in a difficult C session and made a good profit.

The unlikeliest  piece of info could well help in the most difficult session and such experience will increase the
profitability of many sessions.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 10, 2009, 04:45:30 PM
Continuing on from your last post. .  about using other trends other than the symbols to decide which way to go when a  possible tricky decision has to be made.

This came up in a session from Wiesbaden 7/8/06. .

Row   #    BorR    +/-/0    PorM      Unit+/-
1       8       B
2      30      R        -1
3      36      R         0         M-1
4      17      B        -1
5      11      B         0         000
6      35      B       +1         M-1
7       4       B       +2         000        +1
8      16      R       +1         M-1
9      21      R       +2         000        +2
10      9       R       +3         M-1
11     18      R       +4         000        +3
12     24      B       +3         M-1
13     35      B       +4         000        +4
14     21      R       +3         P+1
15     14      R       +4         P+2        +3
16     20      B       +3         P+3        +4
17     18      R       +2         P+2        +3 ch

The session started off well with a strong D formation up until row 15. 
Previously the symbol collapsed straight away. .  This time a symbol has reached 2 for the first time, so do i expect it to collapse or continue to increase?

The reason i went for the increase is because i noticed a recent good trend happening in column4.  From row 10 to 15 column4 has gone +3,+4,+3,+4,+3,+4, so on the basis of this i opted for the P to increase expecting the run to continue in column4, which proved to be correct.

For the next bet it was straight forward enough with the  P symbol on the increase, and a stong trend in column4, black was the obvious selection, but unfortunatly it was a losing bet,, and decided to end here with the 3rd +3 units in the final column.

How was this session played Mr Chips. .  Anygood? or no?

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 10, 2009, 04:53:58 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 10, 2009, 04:45:30 PM
Continuing on from your last post. .  about using other trends other than the symbols to decide which way to go when a  possible tricky decision has to be made.

This came up in a session from Wiesbaden 7/8/06. .

Row   #    BorR    +/-/0    PorM      Unit+/-
1       8       B
2      30      R        -1
3      36      R         0         M-1
4      17      B        -1
5      11      B         0         000
6      35      B       +1         M-1
7       4       B       +2         000        +1
8      16      R       +1         M-1
9      21      R       +2         000        +2
10      9       R       +3         M-1
11     18      R       +4         000        +3
12     24      B       +3         M-1
13     35      B       +4         000        +4
14     21      R       +3         P+1
15     14      R       +4         P+2        +3
16     20      B       +3         P+3        +4
17     18      R       +2         P+2        +3 ch

The session started off well with a strong D formation up until row 15. 
Previously the symbol collapsed straight away. .  This time a symbol has reached 2 for the first time, so do I expect it to collapse or continue to increase?

The reason I went for the increase is because I noticed a recent good trend happening in column4.  From row 10 to 15 column4 has gone +3,+4,+3,+4,+3,+4, so on the basis of this I opted for the P to increase expecting the run to continue in column4, which proved to be correct.

For the next bet it was straight forward enough with the  P symbol on the increase, and a stong trend in column4, black was the obvious selection, but unfortunatly it was a losing bet,, and decided to end here with the 3rd +3 units in the final column.

How was this session played Mr Chips. .  Anygood? or no?



Hi onlyworld.I think this session is good.This numbers are from live roulette or RNG.Because when i play on RNG most sessions are C and E formation.I think on RNG can be use this system but on live roulette is the best.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 10, 2009, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 10, 2009, 04:45:30 PM
Continuing on from your last post. .  about using other trends other than the symbols to decide which way to go when a  possible tricky decision has to be made.

This came up in a session from Wiesbaden 7/8/06. .

Row   #    BorR    +/-/0    PorM      Unit+/-
1       8       B
2      30      R        -1
3      36      R         0         M-1
4      17      B        -1
5      11      B         0         000
6      35      B       +1         M-1
7       4       B       +2         000        +1
8      16      R       +1         M-1
9      21      R       +2         000        +2
10      9       R       +3         M-1
11     18      R       +4         000        +3
12     24      B       +3         M-1
13     35      B       +4         000        +4
14     21      R       +3         P+1
15     14      R       +4         P+2        +3
16     20      B       +3         P+3        +4
17     18      R       +2         P+2        +3 ch

The session started off well with a strong D formation up until row 15. 
Previously the symbol collapsed straight away. .  This time a symbol has reached 2 for the first time, so do I expect it to collapse or continue to increase?

The reason I went for the increase is because I noticed a recent good trend happening in column4.  From row 10 to 15 column4 has gone +3,+4,+3,+4,+3,+4, so on the basis of this I opted for the P to increase expecting the run to continue in column4, which proved to be correct.

For the next bet it was straight forward enough with the  P symbol on the increase, and a stong trend in column4, black was the obvious selection, but unfortunatly it was a losing bet,, and decided to end here with the 3rd +3 units in the final column.

How was this session played Mr Chips. .  Anygood? or no?



I have to say I'm very impressed the way you have understood Signum, as so many have failed
to get past the first hurdle.

A very good D session. I would have made the same decision as you in row 15 and chosen to bet B.
21 at row 14 would not have given much time to think. If there was time  consideration could be given
to the 3,4 trend in column 4, also P has shown for the first time. However this has been a strong D session
so I think it favours B.

As it turned out the +4 was quickly recovered at row 16. Yes I would have favoured P+3 for the reasons
you gave.

I think even though at row 17, the session has reached entry 14 and still 6 away from the 20 entry cut off
it's a reasonable decision to exit at this point. It could now go through a C phase and after a struggle still
end up with +3 or less of course.

The D Formation has produced a straight forward profit of +3 units.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 10, 2009, 11:37:55 PM
Here's a good run, Wiesbaden spins:

1   2     b
2   34   r   -1
3   3     r    0     m-1
4   19   r   +1
5   18   r   +2    m-2
6   27   r   +3    m-1   -1
7   6     b   +2   m-2   -2
8   33   b   +3   m-1   -1
9   35   b   +4   m-2    0
10  8    b   +5   m-1   +1
11  3    r   +4    m-2   +2
12  21  r   +5    m-1   +3
13  6    b   +4   000   +2
14  24  b   +5   p+1
15  12  r   +4    p+2   +3
16  30  r   +5    p+3   +4
17  18  r   +6    p+2   +3  ch
18  36  r   +7    p+3   +2  ch
19  33  b  +6    p+2   +3
20  15  b  +7    p+3   +4


Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Natural9 on November 11, 2009, 01:53:21 AM
Quote from: droidman on November 10, 2009, 11:37:55 PM
Here's a good run, Wiesbaden spins:

1   2     b
2   34   r   -1
3   3     r    0     m-1
4   19   r   +1
5   18   r   +2    m-2
6   27   r   +3    m-1   -1
7   6     b   +2   m-2   -2
8   33   b   +3   m-1   -1
9   35   b   +4   m-2    0
10  8    b   +5   m-1   +1
11  3    r   +4    m-2   +2
12  21  r   +5    m-1   +3
13  6    b   +4   000   +2
14  24  b   +5   p+1
15  12  r   +4    p+2   +3
16  30  r   +5    p+3   +4
17  18  r   +6    p+2   +3  ch
18  36  r   +7    p+3   +2  ch
19  33  b  +6    p+2   +3
20  15  b  +7    p+3   +4



Droidman are you playing the groups or are you just using the spins as they come out

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 04:38:31 AM
Quote from: droidman on November 10, 2009, 11:37:55 PM
Here's a good run, Wiesbaden spins:

1   2     b
2   34   r   -1
3   3     r    0     m-1
4   19   r   +1
5   18   r   +2    m-2
6   27   r   +3    m-1   -1
7   6     b   +2   m-2   -2
8   33   b   +3   m-1   -1
9   35   b   +4   m-2    0
10  8    b   +5   m-1   +1
11  3    r   +4    m-2   +2
12  21  r   +5    m-1   +3
13  6    b   +4   000   +2
14  24  b   +5   p+1
15  12  r   +4    p+2   +3
16  30  r   +5    p+3   +4
17  18  r   +6    p+2   +3  ch
18  36  r   +7    p+3   +2  ch
19  33  b  +6    p+2   +3
20  15  b  +7    p+3   +4




A good C Formation session and when they are in a 1,2,1,2  and 2,3,2,3 pattern it definitely
going to be a profitable session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 11, 2009, 05:28:17 AM
HI,

I understood when we have to put "check" but I didn't understant what does it mean exactly?? What should we do when there is this "ch"?

Thxs
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 06:23:57 AM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 11, 2009, 05:28:17 AM
HI,

I understood when we have to put "check" but I didn't understant what does it mean exactly?? What should we do when there is this "ch"?

Thxs

The idea is to evaluate the session, consider carefully how the session is progressing. If you are
getting close to the 20 entry cut off point and say you have a check at entry 17 and showing a
profit of +4 and it has been a difficult session, then it may be a good time to exit.

If you now replace the above +4 with a 0, then you have to seriously consider a break even result,
nothing lost.

A good reason for having a 20 entry cut off, is that as you approach it in a session, it encourages you
to make a realistic decision as to when to exit.

On the website there are a number of sessions, explaining about what to consider when there is a
check.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 11, 2009, 08:52:23 AM
Ok, here is my first test:

18   R            
  8   B   -1         
18   R   -2   P+1      
24   B   -3   P+2      
12   R   -4   P+3   +1   
10   B   -5   P+4   +2   
34   R   -6   P+5   +3   
17   B   -7   P+6   +4   
  0                       +3   
15   B   -6   P+5   +2   
  3   R   -7   P+6   +3   ch
27   R   -6   P+7   +4   
35   B   -7   P+8   +5   
  0                       +4   ch
25   R   -8   P+7   +3   
25   R   -7   P+6   +4   
28   B   -8   P+7   +3   
  5   R   -9   P+8   +4   
12   R   -8   P+7   +3   
25   R   -7   P+6   +4   

Is it right?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 09:53:20 AM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 11, 2009, 08:52:23 AM
Ok, here is my first test:

18   R            
  8   B   -1         
18   R   -2   P+1      
24   B   -3   P+2      
12   R   -4   P+3   +1   
10   B   -5   P+4   +2   
34   R   -6   P+5   +3   
17   B   -7   P+6   +4   
  0                       +3   
15   B   -6   P+5   +2   
  3   R   -7   P+6   +3   ch
27   R   -6   P+7   +4   
35   B   -7   P+8   +5   
  0                       +4   ch
25   R   -8   P+7   +3   
25   R   -7   P+6   +4   
28   B   -8   P+7   +3   
  5   R   -9   P+8   +4   
12   R   -8   P+7   +3   
25   R   -7   P+6   +4   

Is it right?


Bien fait vous comprenez maintenant le Signum system.

In row 11 you got the correct result P+6, but what information made you decide on that instead of
expecting the decline of P?

I think I would exit at entry 16, P+8, +4. There is a +4 check then a further two 4's.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 11, 2009, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: droidman link=topic=12670.     msg84156#msg84156 date=1257907075
Here's a good run, Wiesbaden spins:

1   2     b
2   34   r   -1
3   3     r    0     m-1
4   19   r   +1
5   18   r   +2    m-2
6   27   r   +3    m-1   -1
7   6     b   +2   m-2   -2
8   33   b   +3   m-1   -1
9   35   b   +4   m-2    0
10  8    b   +5   m-1   +1
11  3    r   +4    m-2   +2
12  21  r   +5    m-1   +3
13  6    b   +4   000   +2
14  24  b   +5   p+1
15  12  r   +4    p+2   +3
16  30  r   +5    p+3   +4
17  18  r   +6    p+2   +3  ch
18  36  r   +7    p+3   +2  ch
19  33  b  +6    p+2   +3
20  15  b  +7    p+3   +4





Shouldn't M collapse to 000 at row 5?

Row    #    BorR    +/-/0    PorM     Units+/-

1        2       B
2      34       R        -1
3        3       R         0         M-1
4      19       R       +1                                    << With no previous +1 in column4. For M to increase it would require
                                                                             a zero in row5. If the current symbol was P, then it would require
                                                                             a new number (+2) in column4 in row5 to increase.


5      18       R       +2        000                      << Column4 moves to +2 after a repeat of red meaning M collapses to
                                                                             000 because M wanted a zero in column4 to increase.

               
6      27       R       +3        P+1                     << After a collapse of a symbol, a new symbol needs to be born.     
                                                                            As +2 is a new number in colum4 row5, then for the new symbol
                                                                            to be P it would require column4 here to increase. For M to be the
                                                                            new symbol it would need the opposite and a +1 in column4.     
                                                                            As it turns out,  a repeat of red makes column4 increase to +3
                                                                            which makes P the new symbol and is recorded at column5 here.


7       6        B       +2        000        +1         << With the previous collapse of a symbol, the expectation is that the
                                                                            same will happen here. With no previous +3 in colum4, a P would
                                                                            require a new number (+4) here to increase.     
                                                                            As we are looking for P to collapse and not increase here, we want
                                                                            a +2 so we bet black. Black wins, 1 unit gained and P collapses.


8      33       B       +3        P+1                     << After a collapse of a symbol, a new symbol needs to be born. 
                                                                            The previous +2 at row5 resulted in a +3 at row6. For P to be the
                                                                            new symbol it would need a repeat of that here. For M to bethenew
                                                                            symbol, it would want the opposite (+1) here.     
                                                                            P is the new symbol as black came making colum4 +3,
 

9      35       B       +4        000        +2         <<As the session is in a 'D' formation with symbols collapsing, we
                                                                           expect the same here again. The previous +3 in column4 at row6
                                                                           resulted a +2 at row7, so for P to increase, it would want a repeat    
                                                                           here. As we want P to collapse we want the opposite (+4), and bet
                                                                           on black.     
                                                                           Black comes making column4 +4 and a winning bet. P collapses.


10      8        B       +5        P+1                     << After a collapse of a symbol a new symbol has to be born.     
                                                                            There is no previous +4 in column4, so for P to be the new symbol
                                                                            there would need to be a new number (+5) at column4 here. For
                                                                            M to be the new symbol, it would want the opposite, a (+3) here.     
                                                                            Black comes so column4 is now +5 and P is the new symbol.


11      3        R       +4        000        +3         << With a strong D formation of symbols collapsing, we continue
                                                                            following the trend. With no previous +5 in column4, a P would
                                                                            want a new number (+6) to increase, but as we want P to
                                                                            collapse again, we want the oppsosite a (+4) here. So we bet on  
                                                                            red. Red comes, P collapses and another winning bet.


12     21       R       +5        P+1                     << Once again a new symbol has to be established. The previous +4
                                                                            at row9 in column4 resulted in a +5 at row10. A repeat of this
                                                                            here would make the new symbol a P or otherwise it will be an M.     
                                                                            A red comes, making column4 +5, so P is the new symbol here.


13      6        B       +4        P+2        +2         << We want P to collapse once again as the session is showing a
                                                                            strong D formation. The previous +5 in column4 at row10 resulted
                                                                            in a +4 at row11. For P to increase it would want a repeat here,
                                                                            but we expect P to collapse again so we want the opposite, (+6).     
                                                                            So we bet on red. Unfortunately black comes in and we lose our
                                                                            bet. This also means that P increases to P+2.


14     24       B       +5        P+3        +3         << For the first time in the previous row, the symbol didn't collapse
                                                                            straight away, so a decision has to be made as to whether this
                                                                            is a temporary move from the previous trend or whether P could
                                                                            be starting an upwards movement.     
                                                                            Looking at column4, there appears to be a good trend from row9
                                                                            to row13. A sequence of +4,+5,+4,+5,+4. On the basis of this, the
                                                                            decision is for the P to move upwards expecting a +5 in column4
                                                                            here. The bet therefore is on black.     
                                                                            Black comes in for a winning bet. P increases to P+3 and the trend
                                                                            in column4 continues.


15     12       R       +4        P+4        +4         << As P is now on the up and the good trend in column4, the
                                                                            expectancy is for P to move to P+4 here. The previous +5 in colum4
                                                                            at row12 resulted in a +4 at row13, so for P to increase it would
                                                                            want a repeat here (the current trend in colum4 would dictate that
                                                                            anyway). So the bet here is for red.     
                                                                            Red comes in here and P increases to P+4.


16     30       R       +5        P+5        +5         << With P on the climb, we expect it to keep moving up. Previous +4 in
                                                                            column4 at row 13 resulted in a +5 at row 14, so for P to increase it
                                                                            would want the same again here. So the bet is for red here.     
                                                                            Red comes in for a winning bet and P has increased to P+5.


17     18       R       +6        P+4        +4         << There is no reason here other than expecting P to continue its
                                                                             Upward curve. The previous +5 in column4 at row14 resulted in a +4
                                                                             at row15, so for P to increase it would want a repeat of thathere.     
                                                                             Therefore the bet is for black here. Unfortunately, red came in and
                                                                             we lost our bet. P drops to P+4 and ends its continuous run.
 

18     36       R       +7        P+5        +3  ch    << P reached a peak of P+5 at row16 and the run was halted in the
                                                                             previous row. It is expected that P may well be in decline, so the
                                                                             bet here is for P to fall to P+3. There is a new number (+6) in the
                                                                             previous row at column4. For P to ascend again, it would want a
                                                                             new number (+7) here. As we want P to decline, we want the
                                                                             opposite a (+5), so the bet is black. Unfortunately red came in and
                                                                             the bet is lost. P moves back up to P+5.


19     33       B       +6        P+4        +4  ch    << It appears that a 'C' formation is being formed now P+4,P+5,P+4,
                                                                             P+5. Continuing this trend we would want P to fall to P+4 here.     
                                                                             In the previous row, a new number (+7) appears in column4 for the
                                                                             first time. For P to ascend it would want a new number (+8) here.     
                                                                             As we want P to decline to P+4 here, we want the opposite and a
                                                                             +6 in column4. For this to happen we need to bet on black here.     
                                                                            Black comes in for a winning bet and P moves down to P+4.     
                                                                            Check is marked here as the units has reached +4 forthethirdtime.     
                                                                            We are at entry 16 now but in a good 'C' formation. If the formation
                                                                            doesn't continue after the next bet, then it would probably be a good
                                                                            idea to exit then.


20     15       B       +7        P+5        +5         << As we want the 'C' formation to continue, we want P to ascend to
                                                                            P+5 here. The previous +6 in column4 at row17 resulted a +7at
                                                                            row18. For P to increase, it would want a repeat here. For column4to
                                                                            be +7 we need to bet black.     
                                                                            Black comes in for a winning bet and the 'C' formation continues.



I don't know what numbers would have been next in this session. There have been 17 entries. I would have continued to follow the 'C' formation trend until the next losing bet and then exit.     

Hopefully, I believe this session is correct. Maybe Mr. Chips can verify it. I thought this might benefit some readers who might be struggling to understand the system.     

I'm off to do something less brain taxing now, like doing the rubiks cube behind my back  :lol:        

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 01:01:01 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 10, 2009, 11:37:55 PM
Here's a good run, Wiesbaden spins:

1   2     b
2   34   r   -1
3   3     r    0     m-1
4   19   r   +1
5   18   r   +2    m-2
6   27   r   +3    m-1   -1
7   6     b   +2   m-2   -2
8   33   b   +3   m-1   -1
9   35   b   +4   m-2    0
10  8    b   +5   m-1   +1
11  3    r   +4    m-2   +2
12  21  r   +5    m-1   +3
13  6    b   +4   000   +2
14  24  b   +5   p+1
15  12  r   +4    p+2   +3
16  30  r   +5    p+3   +4
17  18  r   +6    p+2   +3  ch
18  36  r   +7    p+3   +2  ch
19  33  b  +6    p+2   +3
20  15  b  +7    p+3   +4




Only1Word,

Yes your right I missed that, I think I must have Signum fatigue  ::) ;D

I'll have a break and go through your post later.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 11, 2009, 01:01:06 PM
Rodney, yes I played the groups.

Only1word, I was wrong, but I based that M-2 on the run of -1,0,+1,+2
which I believed to be non-repetition, since -1,0 is a M mode move.

Maybe Richard could clear this up for us.

droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 11, 2009, 01:09:58 PM
Sorry a few words seem to be out of line in the paragrahs towards the bottom.  Tried to amend it but just makes it worse  :blink:
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 01:10:17 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 11, 2009, 01:01:06 PM
Rodney, yes I played the groups.

Only1word, I could be wrong, but I based that M-2 on the run of -1,0,+1,+2
which I believed to be non-repetition, since -1,0 is a M mode move.

Maybe Richard could clear this up for us.

droidman


The +1 is a new number and therefore to increase M there has to be 0 after the +1.

In the example there is +2 so M collapses.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: beo on November 11, 2009, 04:04:40 PM
Hi all!

I've made a little tracker. 
It can download Wiesbaden Spins, select spins, and fill the 4th column => you just have to fill the P/M column. 

This tracker isn't designed for begineers to skip the understanding of first stages of the system.

It is designed for 2 things :

- quickly testing the system and making sessions from Wiesbaden spins
  (far quicker than testing with pen&paper)

- for people who fully understand the system and play it online on live wheels (or RNG maybe)

It will not be useful to understand the system !

The only bug I found is when we have two consecutive "0" in selected spins. 

Please repport bugs, errors,.  .  . 
Modifications are welcome. 

Hope you'll enjoy it ;-)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 04:15:13 PM
Only1Word,

Thanks for producing a detailed explanation of the session, I am sure it will be very helpful
to those needing a bit more help to understand the system.


Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 11, 2009, 04:34:18 PM
Hi Richard.Can you give me some numbers?I will try it.


regards
Thomas
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 11, 2009, 04:42:03 PM
Quote from: beo on November 11, 2009, 04:04:40 PM
Hi all!

I've made a little tracker.
It can download Wiesbaden Spins, select spins, and fill the 4th column => you just have to fill the P/M column.
The only bug I found is when we have two consecutive "0" in selected spins.
Please repport bugs, . . .
Modifications are welcome.

Hope you'll enjoy it ;-)

I have sent you a PM

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Lohnro on November 11, 2009, 10:01:03 PM
Hey Mr Chips,

Just a quick question mate.

In you sample sessions on you website, Session A3. In row 4 you have M-2, aren't we suppose to leave it blank because the result before was 0?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 12, 2009, 03:58:39 AM
Quote from: Lohnro on November 11, 2009, 10:01:03 PM
Hey Mr Chips,

Just a quick question mate.

In you sample sessions on you website, Session A3. In row 4 you have M-2, aren't we suppose to leave it blank because the result before was 0?

I was wondering when you were going to find it :biggrin:

Joking aside thanks for pointing it out, I will amend it today. I am gradually eliminating the errors :good:
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 12, 2009, 12:36:23 PM
I guess I need more practice!

Wiesbaden, 1-17-07  t.4

1   20    b
2   1      r    -1
3   7      r     0    m-1
4   27    r    +1
5   23    r    +2    000
6   17    b    +1    m-1
7   19    r      0    m-2   -1
8   26    b    -1    m-1   -2
9   32    r    -2    000   -3
10  24   b    -3    p+1
11  17   b    -2    000   -4
12  21   r    -3     p+1
13  3     r    -2     p+2   -5
14  3     r    -1     p+1   -6
15  9     r     0     p+2   -7
16  9     r    +1    p+3   -8
17  20   b     0     p+2   -9
18  33   b    +1    p+3   -8
19  20   b    +2    p+2   -7
20  2     b    +3    p+3   -6
21  2     b    +4    p+4   -7
22  19   r    +3    p+3   -6  ch
23  25   r    +4    p+4   -5
24  35   b    +3    p+5   -6
25  3     r    +2    p+4   -5  ch
26  21   r    +3    p+3


Question: if black had shown on row 26, would that
have made P+5?

Thanks
droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 12, 2009, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 12, 2009, 12:36:23 PM
I guess I need more practice!

Wiesbaden, 1-17-07  t.4

1   20    b
2   1      r    -1
3   7      r     0    m-1
4   27    r    +1
5   23    r    +2    000
6   17    b    +1    m-1
7   19    r      0    m-2   -1
8   26    b    -1    m-1   -2
9   32    r    -2    000   -3
10  24   b    -3    p+1
11  17   b    -2    000   -4
12  21   r    -3     p+1
13  3     r    -2     p+2   -5
14  3     r    -1     p+1   -6
15  9     r     0     p+2   -7
16  9     r    +1    p+3   -8
17  20   b     0     p+2   -9
18  33   b    +1    p+3   -8
19  20   b    +2    p+2   -7
20  2     b    +3    p+3   -6
21  2     b    +4    p+4   -7
22  19   r    +3    p+3   -6  ch
23  25   r    +4    p+4   -5
24  35   b    +3    p+5   -6
25  3     r    +2    p+4   -5  ch
26  21   r    +3    p+3


Question: if black had shown on row 26, would that
have made P+5?

Thanks
droidman


I nearly choked on my cup of tea when I saw -9 :o :swoon:

Can I ask, do you always use lower case? Just so used to upper case, easy on the eyes.

Unfortunately the session is wrong, but you are still a learner so no problem.

Please check row 8 col 5. This is quite a difficult C session and of course I will help you further,
but try first of all to think about the patterns that are associated with a C Formation.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 12, 2009, 03:27:00 PM
Hi Richard.This is my session for real money with minimum stake 0.003 euro cents .Is it correct?


B
B  +1
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  000  +1
R  +4  P+1
B  +3  000  +2
R  +2  M-1
R  +3  000  +3
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000  +4
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  000  +5
R  +4  M-1
R  +5  000  +6

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 12, 2009, 03:56:16 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 12, 2009, 03:27:00 PM
B
B  +1
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  000  +1
R  +4  P+1
B  +3  000  +2
R  +2  M-1
R  +3  000  +3
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000  +4
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  000  +5
R  +4  M-1
R  +5  000  +6



This is all correct until the final row. There is a +4 in the second last row. The previous +4 in that column resulted in a +3. As the symbol is M in the second last row, it doesnt want a repeat of that, for M to increase.
Red comes in the final row making the second column +5, which isnt a repeat so M increases to M-2.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: MAX on November 12, 2009, 04:06:18 PM
Only1Word

B
B  +1
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  P+2 +1( ok I see I made a mistake from here :-[) it must be ooo


Thanks
MAX
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 12, 2009, 04:08:07 PM
Hi Richard,

Thanks for being patient with us learners.

I was studying the patterns in C formations, and I noticed
in session C2 a blank in row 11 where a P/M symbol might be.
Maybe there's a reason for it, or another error.

And, in the future I'll use caps to save you from eyestrain!

droidman

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 12, 2009, 04:10:45 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 12, 2009, 03:56:16 PM
This is all correct until the final row. There is a +4 in the second last row. The previous +4 in that column resulted in a +3. As the symbol is M in the second last row, it doesn't want a repeat of that, for M to increase.
Red comes in the final row making the second column +5, which isnt a repeat so M increases to M-2.


Oh.Yes you are right...i must bad see...yes i know we must assume +3...so ok i am happy that i understand it...
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 12, 2009, 05:03:10 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 12, 2009, 04:08:07 PM
Hi Richard,

Thanks for being patient with us learners.

I was studying the patterns in C formations, and I noticed
in session C2 a blank in row 11 where a P/M symbol might be.
Maybe there's a reason for it, or another error.

And, in the future I'll use caps to save you from eyestrain!

droidman

Hi droidman,

Unfortunately it's an error, sorry if it mislead you. It's no excuse, but the other version of this system
treats the -1, 0 differently. The website will eventually be 100% accurate and thanks for pointing it
out. I will correct it soon.

If you are not able to make any headway with the 1-17-07 session, I will provide you with some
explanations.

Regards

Richard

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 12, 2009, 06:30:58 PM
1-17-07 session:

1   20    B  
2   1      R   -1
3   7      R    0    M-1
4   27    R   +1
5   23    R   +2   000
6   17    B   +1   M-1
7   19    R    0    M-2   -1
8   26    B   -1    M-3    0
9   32    R   -2    M-4   +1
10  24   B   -3    M-3    0
11  17   B   -2    M-4   -1
12  21   R   -3    M-3    0   ch
13  3     R   -2    M-2   -1   ch
14  3     R   -1    M-3   -2
15  9     R    0    M-4   -3
16  9     R   +1   M-5   -2
17  20   B    0    M-6   -1   ch
18  33   B   +1   M-5   -2   ch
19  20   B   +2   M-6   -1
20  2     B   +3   M-7   -2

Does this look a little better?
Please tell me if I made a mistake somewhere.
droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Werdna on November 12, 2009, 06:43:13 PM
Hi Richard,

I feel the need to ask you a question before I read through the link to your system and the post's from these good people and that question is why does your system win?

You see it's not that I am lazy, it's just that I haven't actually come across a system which beats the numbers on this wonderful puzzle which we call Roulette within this forum!?

I believe your answer would give more incentive for people to look at your system than incentive would give for the people to look at your system. If you get my meaning, which I'm sure you do.

Looking forward to your help,

Kind regards

Werdna
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: bene126 on November 12, 2009, 03:27:00 PM
Hi Richard.This is my session for real money with minimum stake 0.003 euro cents .Is it correct?


B
B  +1
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  000  +1
R  +4  P+1
B  +3  000  +2
R  +2  M-1
R  +3  000  +3
B  +2  P+1
R  +1  000  +4
R  +2  P+1
R  +3  000  +5
R  +4  M-1
R  +5  000  +6



A good session and thanks to Only1Word for the correction.

As the bets are so cheap, yes it makes for good practice sessions. If you get any really difficult sessions
then post them here and we can examine it.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 10:03:19 AM
Quote from: droidman on November 12, 2009, 06:30:58 PM
1-17-07 session:

1   20    B  
2   1      R   -1
3   7      R    0    M-1
4   27    R   +1
5   23    R   +2   000
6   17    B   +1   M-1
7   19    R    0    M-2   -1
8   26    B   -1    M-3    0
9   32    R   -2    M-4   +1
10  24   B   -3    M-3    0
11  17   B   -2    M-4   -1
12  21   R   -3    M-3    0   ch
13  3     R   -2    M-2   -1   ch
14  3     R   -1    M-3   -2
15  9     R    0    M-4   -3
16  9     R   +1   M-5   -2
17  20   B    0    M-6   -1   ch
18  33   B   +1   M-5   -2   ch
19  20   B   +2   M-6   -1
20  2     B   +3   M-7   -2

Does this look a little better?
Please tell me if I made a mistake somewhere.
droidman


Yes certainly a better result, as it's within the minimum loss of 3 to 4 units.

This is my take on it with a correction in row 17.

[table=,]
Row,#,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,20,B,,,
2,1,R,-1,,
3,7,R,0,M-1,
4,27,R,+1,,
5,23,R,+2,OOO,
6,17,B,+1,M-1,
7,19,R,0,M-2,-1
8,26,B,-1,M-3,0
9,32,R,-2,M-4,+1
10,24,B,-3,M-3,0
11,17,B,-2,M-4,-1
12,21,R,-3,M-3,0,check
13,3,R,-2,M-2,-1,check
14,3,R,-1,M-3,-2,
15,9,R,0,M-4,-1
16,9,R,+1,M-5,0
17,20,B,0,M-4,-1
18,33,B,+1,M-3,0
[/table]

At the first check 0, the session is going through a C phase and a possible difficult session.

A further check in the next row, confirms the difficulty. In such a session it's very important
to look carefully how the C pattern is developing. Also if any information becomes available
from column 3 and 4.

The change in row 13, M-2 will cause a loss or two in the next couple of rows until some
further pattern develops. When in doubt go with the flow, M-2,M-3,M-4. It could easily have
gone M-2,M-3,M-2. Such sessions could well incur a loss, as they are very difficult to work out.
The run of Reds helped up to row 16.

It's essential to exit such sessions at the earliest opportunity and to break even is a good result.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 10:59:01 AM
Quote from: Werdna on November 12, 2009, 06:43:13 PM
Hi Richard,

I feel the need to ask you a question before I read through the link to your system and the post's from these good people and that question is why does your system win?

You see it's not that I am lazy, it's just that I haven't actually come across a system which beats the numbers on this wonderful puzzle which we call Roulette within this forum!?

I believe your answer would give more incentive for people to look at your system than incentive would give for the people to look at your system. If you get my meaning, which I'm sure you do.

Looking forward to your help,

Kind regards

Werdna

Hi Werdna,

Casino's are understandably confident in offering high value bets on Black and Red, as they are certain
(mathematicians have told them so!), that there can never be a long term solution in deciding whether
to bet Black or Red.

It is as you put it a "wonderful puzzle" and in fact a gigantic puzzle calling for a complex solution and there
is only Black and Red to solve it.

Supposing then we introduce two symbols say P & M. What if any difference would that make? The difference
is that P & M would not develop in the same was as B & R. In order for P & M to function, that is for example
to rise and fall, the correct B or R would have to appear. The focus then is not on B & R, but on the symbols
P & M. It therefore does not matter if there is a long Black sequence for example and whether bets should
be placed on Black or gamble on Red coming in soon. Also if there is a complicated mix of B & R, it won't
affect the symbols, as for example for P to rise from P+7 to P+8, it could well require a Black to come in,
or a Red, depending on a particular session.

In most cases then it is much easier to make decisions using the symbols P&M than just B&R and for that
reason to identify sufficient B&R in most sessions to make a profit in the long term.

There is also an additional advantage in that the symbols P&M, create patterns and in Signum terminology
they are referred to as Formations A, B, C, D & E. It is therefore possible to know the type of Formation at
anytime during a session, which will help during the decision making process.

Signum then offers a unique solution to solving the B&R problem and there are a sufficient number of
winning sessions to make a profit in the long term, certainly by a skilful Signum player.

Kind Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on November 13, 2009, 11:23:53 AM
I am baffled too as to what the rationale is to winning bets with this system, even after reading above explanation.  It sounds like the even chances are converted to something else and then we look for certain trends to continue, or not, so it is basically a trend based system.

Can it be used for any even chance?  Does it have to be red/black?  Could all the even chances be played at once?  Does it have to be a real wheel, or can the system be applied to electronic/virtual /RNG wheels?

If it is a system for any even chance bet, and it is a flat bet system, then wouldn't it be better to apply it to Banker/Player at Baccarat?  (better odds than roulette)

(Mr. Chips, I know you are not that familiar with Baccarat but it is a simple game, especially mini-bac, you don't even have to touch the cards or do anything, you just choose Banker or Player and it is basically an even chance game, almost like flipping a coin and calling heads or tails.) (yes I know bac players that banker has a very slight advantage and there is a tie bet too, but for the most part it is similar to betting red/black or any even chance, without the zeroes, just a small "tax" on the winning banker bets.) (and I have played mini-bac a lot and have seen player dominate and many long runs of player, so, again, sorry to go on about bac but from my many sessions at mini-bac I believe it can be approached as an even chance bet, for the purposes of this discussion.)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: simon on November 13, 2009, 11:23:53 AM
I am baffled too as to what the rationale is to winning bets with this system, even after reading above explanation.  It sounds like the even chances are converted to something else and then we look for certain trends to continue, or not, so it is basically a trend based system.

Can it be used for any even chance?  Does it have to be red/black?  Could all the even chances be played at once?  Does it have to be a real wheel, or can the system be applied to electronic/virtual /RNG wheels?

If it is a system for any even chance bet, and it is a flat bet system, then wouldn't it be better to apply it to Banker/Player at Baccarat?  (better odds than roulette) (Mr. Chips, I know you are not that familiar with Baccarat but it is a simple game, especially mini-bac, you don't even have to touch the cards or do anything, you just choose Banker or Player and it is basically an even chance game, almost like flipping a coin and calling heads or tails.) (yes I know bac players that banker has a very slight advantage and there is a tie bet too, but for the most part it similar to betting red/black or any even chance, without the zeroes, just a small "tax" on the winning banker bets.)

I don't know why your baffled. I seem to recall some remark you made about the website that it's "cryptic",
something like that. If that was the case no one would understand it and that has proved to be not so.

If you go to the section 'Intro to P&M', it refers for example that a sequence of the M symbol is much easier
to follow than a  series of B & R, is that not so, unless you can demonstrate the opposite view?

I have only concentrated on B&R. Yes most probably the other EC can be used. The system was designed for
use in a b&m casino, so it has to be practical for that purpose. Using more than one EC would make it
incredibly complex in what is already a complex system and it is easy to make errors.

I did briefly look at the possibility of Baccarat, as someone else suggested it and if you look back to page 6,
reply 87 I offered to pursue it further in the Bac section if there was any interest.

I don't know if it could be applied to Baccarat, but as I mentioned in the previous post I got a +4 and +6,
but I know nothing about the length of a session and what in unit terms is considered a good win.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: simon on November 13, 2009, 01:21:20 PM
well to be fair I have not studied the system at all and I am way behind in this class and I can see that others are proceeding ahead and excelling at lightning speed so I will try to study the system and this thread in earnest and see how it goes.  the b&m casino is an hour away and I have a virtual roulette machine 20 minutes away and my time is limited so I am still interested in knowing if the system could work with rng. thanks.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 13, 2009, 01:43:00 PM
Hi Richard,

Thanks for pointing out my mistake, of course the previous +1, 0 and then
the +1, 0 at rows 16-17 makes a P-mode move. At least I understand
the mechanics of P and M better now.

Speaking of mistakes, I think I found another one on the website.
Session B2, row 9 col. 5, there's a blank where an M-1 might be.

driodman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 03:18:32 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 13, 2009, 01:43:00 PM
Hi Richard,

Thanks for pointing out my mistake, of course the previous +1, 0 and then
the +1, 0 at rows 16-17 makes a P-mode move. At least I understand
the mechanics of P and M better now.

Speaking of mistakes, I think I found another one on the website.
Session B2, row 9 col. 5, there's a blank where an M-1 might be.

driodman


Thanks, I have removed a couple of pages and will amend them over the weekend.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bruce on November 13, 2009, 04:55:58 PM
This is pretty tricky. If someone could help me out...

Session A2, row 15.

P is clearly on the incline, so why do we bet against it continuing?

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
Quote from: Bruce on November 13, 2009, 04:55:58 PM
This is pretty tricky. If someone could help me out...

Session A2, row 15.

P is clearly on the incline, so why do we bet against it continuing?



Yes you are right P is clearly on the incline. Sometimes there is conflicting information.

There will many occasions when the decision to bet against an incline is correct, this of course was
not one of them. The reason for the decision is the fact that P had not increased above +3 so far
in the session.

It was a profitable session, so the decision didn't greatly affect the overall result. I have on many
occasions managed to get a profit from really difficult C sessions, where P or M has not gone above
+3, -3 and proved to be a really good bit of information.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 13, 2009, 07:07:22 PM

Dear Mr Chips.

I took a look at your site and just would like to ask one question because i want to check some-thing.

Do you know how many placed bets that was made by the the results you have and how much you gain?

Thanks.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Marven on November 13, 2009, 07:48:27 PM
Hi LS,

I asked the same question and this was Richard's answer:

"I don't record number of bets as I am only interested in the actual profit from a session."
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 13, 2009, 08:09:24 PM
Why should it work? 
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bruce on November 13, 2009, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 13, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
Yes you are right P is clearly on the incline. Sometimes there is conflicting information.

There will many occasions when the decision to bet against an incline is correct, this of course was
not one of them. The reason for the decision is the fact that P had not increased above +3 so far
in the session.

It was a profitable session, so the decision didn't greatly affect the overall result. I have on many
occasions managed to get a profit from really difficult C sessions, where P or M has not gone above
+3, -3 and proved to be a really good bit of information.

Thanks for the help

So if we are in a difficult C session, and we are between +3 and -3, we should bet to stay between these parameters?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 02:37:35 AM
Quote from: Lucky Strike on November 13, 2009, 07:07:22 PM
Dear Mr Chips.

I took a look at your site and just would like to ask one question because I want to check some-thing.

Do you know how many placed bets that was made by the the results you have and how much you gain?

Thanks.

LS

Hi LS

As Marven has said I am only interested in the profit from a system.

I have been down the standard deviation road and other such theoretical nonsense, where even if you break
even on a number of occasions and a number of profitable sessions apparently the system is close to
losing or should be showing a loss.

I always produce verifiable results showing a profit or loss, to me that is the reality of roulette.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 02:41:36 AM
Quote from: Landis on November 13, 2009, 08:09:24 PM
Why should it work? 

Why shouldn't it work? What would make it fail after all these years?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 02:50:40 AM
Quote from: Bruce on November 13, 2009, 11:36:30 PM
Thanks for the help

So if we are in a difficult C session, and we are between +3 and -3, we should bet to stay between these parameters?

It just depends on a particular session. Sometimes it never goes above +2,-2. Other times +4,-4. It's just
something to be aware of during the session and can help when trying to make a difficult decision.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 03:27:59 AM
I don't see very many spins where it's actually worked.  What makes you think that it does work?  Each session is so breif that you hardly ever bet.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 14, 2009, 03:37:42 AM

Dear Mr Chips.

Thanks for your honest answer and your opinion.

Take care.

Dear Landis.

The truth is cruel and I have return to this forum just to be honest and help people and put some light on what is what.

Landis if you want to find a good method it has to qualify and pass one simple test if you are going to play even money bets.

The math is easy and all you have to know is if you will gain a least 100 or above with 1024 placed bets, not spins, flat betting.

With 1024 placed bets you will have been up against average fluctuation.
Fluctuation can be many things depending on what you do to make an gain.
Its like an opposite reaction to what you try to capture.
I mention it like this because the method that is posted here has nothing to do with math or probability.

I can not help you more because as I don't have the results that matters regarding this method.

Take care.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 03:53:34 AM
Mr. Chips,

I don't understand what the edge is supposed to be using the system.  How is it that you don't know either?  

Why are you replacing R for red and B for black?  That doesn't follow common sense.  

Why should we track score on the red and black?  How are past spins connected to future spins?  
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 14, 2009, 03:58:38 AM

Dear Landis.

An edge is the same thing as having an positive expectation.

Take care.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 04:17:06 AM
Yes, I know.

But how big is this positive expectation supposedly?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 14, 2009, 04:32:25 AM


Dear Landis.

An true positive expectation is if you can gain +1 and that the net gain of it overcome the amount of attempts you make to gain +1.

It can be that you just place three bets to capture some-thing and try to gain +1.
Then if you lose 1 or 2 times out of 10 you have an edge.
Because if you have that expectation you can gain more then +1.

To verify this you have to have 50 000 placed bets where you end up with an positive result and overcome the zero tax.

Take Care.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 04:41:03 AM
That would be a horrible edge.  It wouldn't be worth playing that long for so little gain.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 14, 2009, 04:49:00 AM

Dear Landis.

I don't want to offend you but your last statement are wrong and show that you have very little knowledge about this.

If you can gain +1 you can buy a new hose, a new car, stop working and so on.

But i know why this is so confusing for you as i understand that you don't know what an edge or advantage is.

Take care.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 05:02:42 AM
Not if you're gaining just one unit after 50k spins.

If you're gaining one unit every 1, 2, or three spins then great.  So far, this system doesn't appear to even come close.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Lohnro on November 14, 2009, 05:03:53 AM
Landis, I think LS means +1 after every session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 05:06:35 AM
That's all?

What a waste of time.  I'd rather win 100 units per session. 
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 14, 2009, 05:25:35 AM

Dear Landis.

I think you have got it all wrong but i wish you good luck.
Your reply just show me that you have to educate your self.

Take care.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 05:34:22 AM
Lucky, please elaborate
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Lohnro on November 14, 2009, 05:40:32 AM
C'mon fellas, this is Mr Chips thread to discuss his system. How about you take your discussion elsewhere?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 14, 2009, 05:56:53 AM
QuoteHow about you take your discussion elsewhere?


Dear Lohnro.

There was not my intention to offend any one here.
But I thought we discuss Mr Chips method or can you explain for me what that has been sad does not effect or have nothing to do with hes method.
You are more then welcome to explain that for me.

I feel free to reply to any post I like to and put things with my perspective of what is what.

Take care with affection.

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Lohnro on November 14, 2009, 06:11:39 AM
Hi LS,

Welcome back BTW!

I saw hints of things getting personal between you and Landis that had nothing to do with the Signum system. Just trying to keep it friendly, that is all mate. If you and Landis would like to discuss how to get an advantage with Mr Chips system so we may all learn something, then by all means post it in this thread.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 14, 2009, 01:06:17 PM
Hi Richard,

Can you check this one:

  1     8   N         
  2     1   R   -1      
  3   11   N   -2   P+1   
  4   32   R   -3   P+2   
  5     9   R   -2   P+1     -1
  6   18   R   -1   OOO     0
  7     2   N   -2   P+1   
  8   36   R   -3   OOO   +1
  9   27   R   -2   P+1   
10   19   R   -1   OOO   +2
11   13   N   -2   P+1   
12     7   R   -3   OOO   +3
13     9   R   -2   P+1   
14   14   R   -1   OOO   +4
15   19   R    0    M-1   
16   30   R    1      
17     8   N    0    M-2    +5
18   21   R   -1    M-3    +6
19   30   R    0    M-2    +5


Thanks for all
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 03:53:34 AM
Mr. Chips,

I don't understand what the edge is supposed to be using the system.  How is it that you don't know either?  

Why are you replacing R for red and B for black?  That doesn't follow common sense.  

Why should we track score on the red and black?  How are past spins connected to future spins?  

I never mind criticism, as long as it's constructive criticism and the person criticising has done their
homework and knows something about the subject, system in this case, they are criticising.

You obviously haven't done your homework, as I am not replacing B or R, as you put it and I suggest you
look at the Signum website in particular 'Intro to P & M and then come back and make some constructive
criticisms, which I will be happy to answer.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 03:27:59 AM
I don't see very many spins where it's actually worked.  What makes you think that it does work?  Each session is so breif that you hardly ever bet.

Quality over quantity. Look at the results on the website, eventually there will be a years verifiable results.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Lohnro on November 14, 2009, 06:11:39 AM
Hi LS,

Welcome back BTW!

I saw hints of things getting personal between you and Landis that had nothing to do with the Signum system. Just trying to keep it friendly, that is all mate. If you and Landis would like to discuss how to get an advantage with Mr Chips system so we may all learn something, then by all means post it in this thread.

Yes, Welcome back, good to see you around. I see your getting stuck in already ;D

Kind Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 14, 2009, 01:06:17 PM
Hi Richard,

Can you check this one:

  1     8   N         
  2     1   R   -1      
  3   11   N   -2   P+1   
  4   32   R   -3   P+2   
  5     9   R   -2   P+1     -1
  6   18   R   -1   OOO     0
  7     2   N   -2   P+1   
  8   36   R   -3   OOO   +1
  9   27   R   -2   P+1   
10   19   R   -1   OOO   +2
11   13   N   -2   P+1   
12     7   R   -3   OOO   +3
13     9   R   -2   P+1   
14   14   R   -1   OOO   +4
15   19   R    0    M-1   
16   30   R    1      
17     8   N    0    M-2    +5
18   21   R   -1    M-3    +6
19   30   R    0    M-2    +5


Thanks for all

Yes it seems fine to me. I like the Noir ;)

In row 6 the usual expectation is P+2, but of course you can gamble that a third red will come in and
of course it will be correct on occasions, as in your session. A nice D Formation.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 14, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
Thanks for your comments Mr Chips!  ;)

I will become better...

Btw here it is an other session with difficult decisions I think. I don't know if I did well so Richard can you check out please


  1   33   N            
  2   26   N   1         
  3   22   N   2   P+1      
  4   10   N   3   P+2      
  5     9   R   2   P+1      -1   
  6   16   R   3   P+2       0   
  7     0                         -1   
  8   12   R   4   P+3       0   
  9   35   N   3   P+2      -1   ch
10     4   N   4   P+3      -2   
11   28   N   5   P+2      -1   
12   19   R   4   P+1      -2   
13   13   N   3   000      -3   
14   10   N   4   P+1      
15   24   N   5   000      -2   ch
16   14   R   4   P+1      
17   19   R   5   P+2      -3   
18     3   R   6   P+1      -4   
19   13   N   5   000      -5   
20   36   R   4   M-1      
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 03:54:50 PM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 14, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
Thanks for your comments Mr Chips!  ;)

I will become better...

Btw here it is an other session with difficult decisions I think. I don't know if I did well so Richard can you check out please


  1   33   N            
  2   26   N   1         
  3   22   N   2   P+1      
  4   10   N   3   P+2      
  5     9   R   2   P+1      -1   
  6   16   R   3   P+2       0   
  7     0                         -1   
  8   12   R   4   P+3       0   
  9   35   N   3   P+2      -1   ch
10     4   N   4   P+3      -2   
11   28   N   5   P+2      -1   
12   19   R   4   P+1      -2   
13   13   N   3   000      -3   
14   10   N   4   P+1      
15   24   N   5   000      -2   ch
16   14   R   4   P+1      
17   19   R   5   P+2      -3   
18     3   R   6   P+1      -4   
19   13   N   5   000      -5   
20   36   R   4   M-1      


In row 6 there is +3, so looking for duplication in row 4 a +3 followed by +2 and in row 8 there was no
duplication so P declined to P+1.

[table=,]
Row,#,N or R,+/-/0,P or M.Units
1,33,N,,,
2,26,N,+1,,
3,22,N,+2,P+1,
4,10,N,+3,P+2,
5,9,R,+2,P+1,-1
6,16,R,+3,P+2,0
7,,0,,,-1
8,12,R,+4,P+1,0
9,35,N,+3,000,-1,check
10,4,N,+4,P+1,
11,28,N,+5,000,0,check
12,19,R,+4,M-1,
13,13,N,+3,M-2,+1
14,10,N,+4,M-1,+2
15,24,N,+5,M-2,+3
16,14,R,+4,M-1,+4
17,19,R,+5,OOO,+3
18,3,R,+6,M-1
19,13,N,+5,M-2,+4
20,36,R,+4,M-3,+3,check
[/table]

I mentioned it to Bruce a few posts back, that on on occasions you have a session, where it doesn't
go above +2,-2 and +3,-3 etc in column 5 and this one of those sessions and therefore the decision
in row 14, that this will continue for a certain time proved to be correct. It ended in row 20 and with
a check of +3, the right time to exit.

Hopefully the above is correct, as I am going through an error phase at the moment.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 04:19:19 PM
How many units are we trying to win each session?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 14, 2009, 04:48:12 PM
HI.This is my todays game for real money.


R
B    -1
B     0   M-1
B   +1
R     0   M-2
R   +1   M-1    -1
B     0   000      0
R    -1   M-1
B    -2   M-2    +1
R    -3   M-1    +2
R    -2   M-2    +1
B    -3   M-1    +2
R    -4   M-2    +3
R    -3   M-1    +4
R    -2   M-2    +5
B    -3   M-1    +6
B    -2   000     +5
B    -1   M-1
B     0   M-2    +6
B   +1   M-3    +5
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 06:55:39 PM
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 04:19:19 PM
How many units are we trying to win each session?

I don't think in terms winning a certain amount each session. For every 20 sessions I expect
to make a profit of between 40 to 60 units.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Marven on November 14, 2009, 06:57:30 PM
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 06:22:38 PM
I think I need to point something out here:

Just because we have P +4 or M-3, or whatever value, the odds of red or black hitting on the next spin haven't changed.  Not even a little bit.  The odds remain 18/37!  

Mr. Chips, you've chosen to use the name Signum.   You imply that you're a math guy with your Ps and Ms, until you are confronted with some very basic questions about your system, like what's the edge? How many units does it make per spin? etc.  What gives?

-Landis
(By the way, I'm a real math guy, not a pretend one.)

Topic split so as not to disturb the main one.

Criticism for the Signum system goes here:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/criticism-for-signum-system-ec-bandr/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/criticism-for-signum-system-ec-bandr/)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Landis on November 14, 2009, 07:04:05 PM
Perhaps you should post the system here so that we can give you a second opinion.

nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70 (nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 07:22:48 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 14, 2009, 04:48:12 PM
HI.This is my todays game for real money.


R
B    -1
B     0   M-1
B   +1
R     0   M-2
R   +1   M-1    -1
B     0   000      0
R    -1   M-1
B    -2   M-2    +1
R    -3   M-1    +2
R    -2   M-2    +1
B    -3   M-1    +2
R    -4   M-2    +3
R    -3   M-1    +4
R    -2   M-2    +5
B    -3   M-1    +6
B    -2   000     +5
B    -1   M-1
B     0   M-2    +6
B   +1   M-3    +5


In row 13 there is -4 a new number and you want a decline and therefore -5 in row 14,
the result was -3 and an increase of M to M-3.

[table=,]
Row,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,R,,,
2,B,-1,,
3,B,0,M-1,
4,B,+1,,
5,R,0,M-2,
6,R,+1,M-1,-1
7,B,0,OOO,0
8,R,-1,M-1
9,B,-2,M-2,+1
10,R,-3,M-1,+2
11,R,-2,M-2,+1
12,B,-3,M-1,+2
13,R,-4,M-2,+3
14,R,-3,M-3,+2,check
15,R,-2,M-4,+3
16,B,-3,M-3,+2
17,B,-2,M-2,+3,check
18,B,-1,M-3,+2
19,B,0,M-4,+3
20,B,+1,M-5,+4
[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 14, 2009, 07:26:16 PM
So far i have tested 17 sessions (consecutive days from Spielbank Wiesbaden), and the results so far..

+7, +2, +1, +6, +2, 0, +3, -1, +2, -1, +7, +2, +1, +2, +7, +3, +1
Total +44 units

I know 17 sessions is not much but looking good at the moment. I dont think this is a dangerous system at all, especially flat betting. I will continue to do a lot more trials and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 14, 2009, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 14, 2009, 07:26:16 PM
So far I have tested 17 sessions (consecutive days from Spielbank Wiesbaden), and the results so far..

+7, +2, +1, +6, +2, 0, +3, -1, +2, -1, +7, +2, +1, +2, +7, +3, +1
Total +44 units

I know 17 sessions is not much but looking good at the moment. I dont think this is a dangerous system at all, especially flat betting. I will continue to do a lot more trials and see how it goes.

Congratulations, yes please do let us know any future results.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: lucky_strike on November 15, 2009, 07:26:14 AM
Dear Mr Chips.

QuoteWelcome back, good to see you around. I see your getting stuck in already.

Thank you.
I just cruising around and having some fun :)

LS
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 15, 2009, 08:53:19 AM
Yes.Now I can see it.I still doing some errors  but its only because I am not full concentrate.But I think I understand to signum system.And can I play this on RNG roulette?

PS: my todays game : 


R
R    +1
R    +2     P+1
B    +1     000
B    +2     P+1
B    +3     000    +1 £
B    +4     P+1
R    +3     000    +2 £
B    +2     M-1
R    +1     M-2   +1 £
B      0     M-3   +2 £
R     -1
R      0     M-4   +3 £
R    +1     M-5  +4 £
B      0     M-4  +3 £
B    +1     M-3  +4 £
R      0     M-2  +5 £
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 15, 2009, 10:19:46 AM
Ok bene126, I'd have played as you play. Keep posting sessions, it's interesting to see how each and everyone bet. Like that we can see errors etc.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Breeze88 on November 15, 2009, 11:34:42 AM
Hi All


I just started to learn the signum system .. a great thnx to the developer Richard  :clapping:  :thumbsup:  :clapping:

Ok here is a session where I tried to apply the P and M correctly .. please could someone point errors out .. thnx


G
G 1
R 0 M - 1
R 1
G 0 000
R -1 M - 1
G -2 M - 2
R -3 M - 3
G -4 M - 4
R -5 M - 5
R -4 M - 4
G -5 M - 3
G -4 M - 2
G -3 M - 3
R -4 M - 2
G -5 M - 1
G -4 000
G -3 P + 1
R -4 P + 2
G -5 P + 3
R -6 P + 2
G -7 P + 1
G -6 000
R -7 P + 1
G -8 000
R -9 M - 1
G -10 M - 2
R -11 M - 3
G -12 M -4



Thnx
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 15, 2009, 12:44:07 PM
Quote from: Breeze88 on November 15, 2009, 11:34:42 AM
Hi All


I just started to learn the signum system .. a great thnx to the developer Richard  :clapping:  :thumbsup:  :clapping:

Ok here is a session where I tried to apply the P and M correctly .. please could someone point errors out .. thnx


G
G 1
R 0 M - 1
R 1
G 0 000
R -1 M - 1
G -2 M - 2 
R -3 M - 3
G -4 M - 4
R -5 M - 5
R -4 M - 4
G -5 M - 3
G -4 M - 2
G -3 M - 3
R -4 M - 2
G -5 M - 1
G -4 000
G -3 P + 1
R -4 P + 2
G -5 P + 3
R -6 P + 2
G -7 P + 1
G -6 000
R -7 P + 1
G -8 000
R -9 M - 1
G -10 M - 2
R -11 M - 3
G -12 M -4



Thnx

Hi.I think this is right.
G
G 1
R 0       M-1
R 1
G 0      000
R -1     M-1
G -2     000
R -3     P+1
G -4     P+2
R -5     P+3
R -4     P+2
G -5     P+3
G -4     P+4
G -3     P+3
R -4     P+4
G -5     P+3
G -4     P+4
G -3     P+3
R -4     P+4
G -5     P+3
R -6     P+2
G -7     P+3
G -6     P+2
R -7     P+3
G -8     P+4
R -9     P+5
G -10   P+6
R -11   P+7
G -12   P+8
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 15, 2009, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: bene126 on November 15, 2009, 08:53:19 AM
Yes.Now I can see it.I still doing some errors  but its only because I am not full concentrate.But I think I understand to signum system.And can I play this on RNG roulette?

PS: my todays game : 


R
R    +1
R    +2     P+1
B    +1     000
B    +2     P+1
B    +3     000    +1 £
B    +4     P+1
R    +3     000    +2 £
B    +2     M-1
R    +1     M-2   +1 £
B      0     M-3   +2 £
R     -1
R      0     M-4   +3 £
R    +1     M-5  +4 £
B      0     M-4  +3 £
B    +1     M-3  +4 £
R      0     M-2  +5 £


Congratulations on becoming a Signum player, nice session.

I have mostly used actuals with occasional airball roulette. I would suggest some practice with
RNG, it depends on the type of RNG.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 15, 2009, 02:31:49 PM
Hi Breeze,

bene is correct except for G8 onwards as follows:

G 8    P+2
R 9    P+3
G 10  P+4
R 11  P+5
G12   P+6

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Breeze88 on November 15, 2009, 02:36:07 PM
Thnx Bene and Richard  :thumbsup:

i wil hang in there ... cya .. soon..
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: bene126 on November 15, 2009, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 15, 2009, 02:31:49 PM
Hi Breeze,

bene is correct except for G8 onwards as follows:

G 8    P+2
R 9    P+3
G 10  P+4
R 11  P+5
G12   P+6

Regards

Richard

Zes zou are right.I must be more concentrate.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 16, 2009, 12:08:15 PM
Here's a nice run, dublinbet spins in real time:

1   25    R
2   30    R   +1
3   22    B    0    M-1
4   27    R   -1
5   10    B   -2    000
6   35    B   -1    M-1
7   33    B    0    M-2   -1
8   17    B   +1   M-3    0
9   12    R    0    M-2   -1
10  33   B   -1    M-3   -2
11  21   R    0    M-2   -1
12  30   R   +1   M-3    0
13  33   B    0    M-2   +1
14  36   R   -1    M-3   +2
15  4     B   -2    M-4   +1
16  25   R   -3    M-5   +2
17  5     R   -2    M-6   +3
18  30   R   -1    M-7   +4
19  26   B   -2    M-6   +3



droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 16, 2009, 12:28:07 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 16, 2009, 12:08:15 PM
Here's a nice run, dublinbet spins in real time:

1   25    R
2   30    R   +1
3   22    B    0    M-1
4   27    R   -1
5   10    B   -2    000
6   35    B   -1    M-1
7   33    B    0    M-2   -1
8   17    B   +1   M-3    0
9   12    R    0    M-2   -1
10  33   B   -1    M-3   -2
11  21   R    0    M-2   -1
12  30   R   +1   M-3    0
13  33   B    0    M-2   +1
14  36   R   -1    M-3   +2
15  4     B   -2    M-4   +1
16  25   R   -3    M-5   +2
17  5     R   -2    M-6   +3
18  30   R   -1    M-7   +4
19  26   B   -2    M-6   +3



droidman


A +3 is what I call a bread and butter session. All those +3's add up.

If and when you play for real, small bets will soon build up and that will be even more fun :thumbsup:

Good to see these sessions posted here.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 16, 2009, 05:48:50 PM
Hi Richard, put your cup of tea down for this one!

1   10    B
2   25    R   -1
3   19    R    0    M-1
4   16    R   +1
5   2      B    0    M-2
6   0                           -1
7   32    R   -1    M-3    0
8   32    R    0    M-2   -1
9   24    B   -1    M-1    0
10  2     B    0    000   +1
11  20   B   +1   P+1
12  11   B   +2   000
13  11   B   +3   P+1
14  12   R   +2   000   +2
15  18   R   +3   P+1
16  8     B   +2   P+2   +1
17  14   R   +1   P+1    0
18  30   R   +2   P+2   -1   ch
19  15   B   +1   P+3   -2
20  32   R    0    P+2   -3
21  21   R   +1   P+3   -4
22  14   R   +2   P+2   -3
23  18   R   +3   P+1   -4
24  31   B   +2   P+2   -5
25  35   B   +3   P+3   -6
26  31   B   +4   P+2   -7

I was playing dublinbet again, so I had to think fast a lot.
Only fun money, so no harm done.

I couldn't catch a good pattern, I kept hoping it would turn around.
I guess when there's no clear trends, it's likely more unclear trends will show up.

If you could go over this one, perhaps a lesson could be learned.

Thanks

droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 16, 2009, 08:01:35 PM
Droidman, this how i would have played it..

1   10   B
2   25   R   -1
3   19   R    0   M-1
4   16   R   +1
5   2     B    0   M-2
6   0                         -1
7   32   R   -1   M-3    0
8   32   R    0   M-2   -1
9   24   B   -1   M-1    0
10  2    B    0   000   +1
11  20  B   +1  M-1
12  11  B   +2  M-2   +2
13  11  B   +3  M-1   +1
14  12  R   +2  000   +2
15  18  R   +3  P+1
16  8    B   +2  P+2   +1
17  14  R   +1  P+1    0 ch   
18  30  R   +2  P+2   -1 ch
19  15  B   +1  P+3   -2
20  32  R    0   P+2   -1 ch
21  21  R   +1  P+3   -2
22  14   R  +2  P+2   -1 ch

This turned out to be a tricky session and possibly i would have made an exit at row 20 with the fourth -1.
Notice your error at row 11, the new symbol should be M. Your session has 22 entries, the max should be 20.

I personally dont want to trial this system live with fun money at the moment, as there is a short time span between spins and would rather work out different and new situations as they arise using past results from wiesbaden for example. The more you test this way, the more you you will see different situations more clearly and also the thought process speeds up.

Im sure. Mr chips will be along to assess your session soon.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 17, 2009, 01:59:56 AM
Quote from: droidman on November 16, 2009, 05:48:50 PM
Hi Richard, put your cup of tea down for this one!

1   10    B
2   25    R   -1
3   19    R    0    M-1
4   16    R   +1
5   2      B    0    M-2
6   0                           -1
7   32    R   -1    M-3    0
8   32    R    0    M-2   -1
9   24    B   -1    M-1    0
10  2     B    0    000   +1
11  20   B   +1   P+1
12  11   B   +2   000
13  11   B   +3   P+1
14  12   R   +2   000   +2
15  18   R   +3   P+1
16  8     B   +2   P+2   +1
17  14   R   +1   P+1    0
18  30   R   +2   P+2   -1   ch
19  15   B   +1   P+3   -2
20  32   R    0    P+2   -3
21  21   R   +1   P+3   -4
22  14   R   +2   P+2   -3
23  18   R   +3   P+1   -4
24  31   B   +2   P+2   -5
25  35   B   +3   P+3   -6
26  31   B   +4   P+2   -7

I was playing dublinbet again, so I had to think fast a lot.
Only fun money, so no harm done.

I couldn't catch a good pattern, I kept hoping it would turn around.
I guess when there's no clear trends, it's likely more unclear trends will show up.

If you could go over this one, perhaps a lesson could be learned.

Thanks

droidman


WHAT -7 !!!

Yes a difficult session. The way Only1Word handled it was correct. It would be a good idea to make
a note of such sessions for future reference, so as to see how to keep any such losses down to
the minimum loss strategy for this system, which is -3 to -4 units.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 04:55:37 AM
Thanks for all of the hard work that you have done...I am working on understanding your system. I play baccarat but sometimes I like to play roulette.  So far I understand how you select the spins and I am confused about a lot of the rules but I will probably figure them out when I have more time...

I have a simple question. How long (time wise) does it take you to play a session? When I play a session of baccarat online it takes me about 90 minutes to complete a session if I decide to play for the entire session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 17, 2009, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 04:55:37 AM
Thanks for all of the hard work that you have done...I am working on understanding your system. I play baccarat but sometimes I like to play roulette.  So far I understand how you select the spins and I am confused about a lot of the rules but I will probably figure them out when I have more time...

I have a simple question. How long (time wise) does it take you to play a session? When I play a session of baccarat online it takes me about 90 minutes to complete a session if I decide to play for the entire session.

In an actual casino the number of spins per hour will vary of depending on the number of players
at the Table. It should be approx 40 spins an hour.

Signum applies a skipping process, but some of the selections are continuous spins.

On the website there are 20 examples of sessions  the following 4 I have shown the consecutive
spins necessary to complete a session.

A1  42 spins
A2  36
A3  39
A4  37

So roughly an hour is about right, less I should think online.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 02:54:36 PM
Ok thank you very much
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 05:18:01 PM
Mr. Chips:

I am trying my very best to understand your system. I think that I am slowly getting the hang of it. I am going to post a picture of your sessionB with questions that I have. Please correct me where I am wrong. I actually think that I got myself on the right track by taking the time do generate  questions that are attached to your session B.
The most important question is the last one.

Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 05:20:39 PM
[attachimg=#nolinks://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7126/sessionb.jpg
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 08:09:45 PM
Here Are some questions from session A-1. I am very confused about how you played this session. I will attached the questions. My (e) button is not working right so there will be some typos. If you see a word that is incomplete then chances are that it is missing an E.
[attachimg=#nolinks://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4851/sessionaone.jpg
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 18, 2009, 03:09:19 AM
My first attempt...Spielbank Wiesbaden Permanenzen 01.01.2008
Can Mr Chips or somebody have a look?

1              R             
2   B   -1
3   R   -2   P+1
4   B   -3   P+2
5   B   -2   P+1   -1
6   B   -1   OOO   -2
7   B   0   M-1
8   B   +1   M-2   -1
9   B   +2   M-3   0
10   B   +3   M-4   +1
11   R   +2   M-3   0
12   B   +1   M-4   -1 CH
13   R   0   M-5   0  CH
14   R   +1   M-4   -1 CH
15   R   +2   M-5   -2
16   B   
17   B   
18   R   
19   B   
20   B   

I am sure there will be mistakes..pl bear with me
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 18, 2009, 03:25:14 AM
Hi Richard,

In your website while explaining the method you mention "entries". What does an entry mean?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 06:22:18 AM
Quote from: John1234 on November 17, 2009, 05:18:01 PM
Mr. Chips:

I am trying my very best to understand your system. I think that I am slowly getting the hang of it. I am going to post a picture of your sessionB with questions that I have. Please correct me where I am wrong. I actually think that I got myself on the right track by taking the time do generate  questions that are attached to your session B.
The most important question is the last one.



Before I start to answer your questions, I should make it clear, that I do not want to discourage
anyone from learning how to use Signum, but many of the questions, I have been asked are
explained on the website. The 20 practice sessions in particular are very useful for getting to
grips with certain aspects of the system, which may be difficult to understand.

OK, the explanations I have given are not to everyone's liking. It is a complicated system and if
you take the frustration people have in understanding it and multiply that 10 fold, you will get
some idea of the difficulty I had in creating it in the first place.

I will of course answer all your questions, but please note, the replies I have given in this thread
and the explanations on the website, I consider are sufficient to understand the system and be
able to produce an example of a session.

What I would like therefore is for those who can produce a session to show it here and I or others,
whom I am grateful to will make any necessary corrections and give comments where applicable.
We will then build up a pool of sessions, which I am sure will be very helpful for those who want to
progress in learning the finer points of Signum and appreciate it's performance.

Answers to your questions to follow.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 06:55:07 AM
John, answers to your questions:

3) Yes -1 to 0 would create M-1
   Yes -1 to -2  would create P+1

4) After a first 0 there is no info to go on. We cannot know at the start of a session, whether it will
be a M-2 or OOO. Later on in the session with a first 0 we have no info, as to whether to expect
P or M to increase or decrease.

5) M-2 has now been established. It could have instead been OOO and a new P or M would have
had to have been created.

7) Correct

8 ) Correct

9) The reason is a -2 would create a new number in the third column. There has not previously
been a -2 and so a -2 appearing would be valid for P, as the requirements of P are duplication
and new numbers, whether positive or negative numbers. It therefore invalidates M and makes
M decline from M-5 to M-4.

13-20  ) The decline for M begins at row 14 and is confirmed at row 15 and the 1 unit loss is
recovered.

What is happening is that M is now in effect in P mode and we can profit from this by betting,
that that it will continue. We know from the results so far, that this is a B Formation session
and therefore there is the expectation, that this will continue, as the session approaches the
20 entry cut off point.

Yes if the decline was temporary, then the expectation would switch to M increasing again.

Further answers to follow.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 07:10:14 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on November 18, 2009, 03:25:14 AM
Hi Richard,

In your website while explaining the method you mention "entries". What does an entry mean?

Entries refer to the number of P or M's including a losing 0 that are recorded in a session.

A session should last a maximum of 20 entries.

I will take a look at your session soon.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Tangram on November 18, 2009, 09:08:31 AM
Mr Chips,

I was curious to see how the results in sessions A1 through to E4 posted on your site came out in terms of standard deviation, I know you've "been down this road" and are dismissive of the concept, but the fact is it does give a  standard "score" for any system in terms of how likely it is that the results are due to chance. You may argue that if a system makes profits and continues to make profits, then that is enough "proof", and any theoretical considerations add nothing and are a waste of time. Up to a point, I agree, but it's still useful to be able to quote a single figure, which quantifies the performance of a system objectively, and also enables a comparison to easily made with other systems (even system which are betting on different portions of the wheel).

Also, members like Landis/Herb think in terms of standard deviations. It would be nice to come back with a number in response to their criticism, rather than replying "it makes a consistent profit", or something similarly wooly. Ok, it probably won't stop the attacks, but it will give them one less thing to criticize.  

To use the signum results as an example, there were 254 bets made, with a profit of 49 units. It's not immediately obvious whether this is a good result or not, but the z-score is 3.506, which is very good.

The fact that 254 bets is a very small sample does not change this fact.   :nono:

Obviously though, you need to understand what the z-score tells you for this figure to be meaningful. All you really need to know is that it compares your particular system results with those of another "system" which merely bets randomly on the same outcomes. That is, if someone were to randomly bet on R/B 254 times (perhaps by flipping a coin to choose their next bet) the chances that they would get a score of 3.506 is very very small, and this tells us that there is something more than just "luck" involved in your results. Note that the comparison is between your  system results and the average of what the "random" bettor would get (which means he would have played many samples of 254 spins).

I won't go into details here about how to calculate the score (I'll post this in the reference section so that people can use it in a spreadsheet), but the basic "benchmarks", roughly speaking, are as follows:

z-score of 1.0 - there is a 16% chance that your results are due to luck - keep trying!
z-score of 2.0 - there is a 2.3% chance that your results are due to luck -  you may be on the right track!
z-score of 3.0 - there is a 0.13% chance that your results are due to luck - you should be getting excited!

Any higher than 3.0 and it will be increasingly unlikely that luck is a factor at all. If the more bets you place, the higher the score becomes, then you definitely have something.

I know you're planning to put your results on the web site (I see you already have some there), and I would be quite interested to keep track of how the z score changes. It should steadily increase, assuming you keep making profits. I will do this, but in addition to the profits I will also need the number of placed bets (each entry in the 4th column counts as a placed bet). If you could make a note of this I will post the updates here (or you can put them on your site if you like).






Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 11:07:28 AM
John, reply to questions part 2.

row 6,  yes

row 7,  if you think about the reply I gave in the first lot of questions, M decline and was in effect
in P mode

In row 6 P has declined. We of course don't know for how long, but until there is a change, then
we must assume it will continue.

row 8  yes

row 9  as previously stated P is in decline ( in M mode)

row 10  I have included this, as it is at an interesting stage of the session. This is really not a good
decision ( I am criticising myself here lol), as there has not been any previous indication, that P is
going to collapse to OOO. If the decline had started at possibly P+4 or certainly P+5, then yes I would
have expected P to collapse.

rows 18 - 21  it is not so much as betting for P, as the important consideration is the trend of P+1,
P+2, P+3. It has not gone above P+3. This piece of info occurs many times in Signum sessions and
is a valuable piece of info, and as ssen in this session it has produced a nice profit of +8 units.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 12:02:43 PM
Quote from: Bazeegar on November 18, 2009, 03:09:19 AM
My first attempt...Spielbank Wiesbaden Permanenzen 01.01.2008
Can Mr Chips or somebody have a look?

1              R             
2   B   -1
3   R   -2   P+1
4   B   -3   P+2
5   B   -2   P+1   -1
6   B   -1   OOO   -2
7   B   0   M-1
8   B   +1   M-2   -1
9   B   +2   M-3   0
10   B   +3   M-4   +1
11   R   +2   M-3   0
12   B   +1   M-4   -1 CH
13   R   0   M-5   0  CH
14   R   +1   M-4   -1 CH
15   R   +2   M-5   -2
16   B   
17   B   
18   R   
19   B   
20   B   

I am sure there will be mistakes..pl bear with me

You  will find it easier to set out a session using  table=, all in square brackets and to exit /table all in
sqare brackets. Then Row,B or R, etc.+1,

[table=,]
Row,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,R,,,
2,B,-1,,
3,R,-2,P+1,
4,B,-3,P+2
5,B,-2,P+1,-1
6,B,-1,OOO,-2
7,B,0,M-1
8,B,+1,,
9,B,+2,000,-3
10,B,+3,P+1
11,R,+2,P+2,-2
12,B,+1,P+1,-1
13,R,0,OOO,0
14,R,+1,P+1,
15,R,+2,OOO,-1,check
[/table]

In row 7 after the 0 we wouldn't kow whether to bet on Black or Red.

In row 8 there is +1 and as M is new the expectation is that it will continue to M-2.
Unfortunately a +2 in column 3 made it collapse as 0 was wanted and a bet on Red.

There are 12 entries so far, if you like to continue I or someone will have a look at it.

You have made a good start.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 12:48:21 PM


(Shakespeare mode)

Is this a SD, which I see before me,
The letters towards my screen? Come let me clutch thee.
I have thee not, and yet I see thee still.
Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible
To feeling, as to sight? Or art thou but
A SD of the mind, a false creation,
Proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain
I see the yet ;D ;D ;D

Tangram,

As you can see I am cracking up :o :lol:

Yes when it comes to SD I am very dismissive,but as I know you are a decent fellow, I will
give it serious consideration and you did give Signum a good score ;)

My main objection has always been that SD (correct me if I am wrong) includes break even
results. It is quite possible for there to be 3 break even results in a row. I could therefore
walk into a casino, with say £200 and out again an hour later, with £200 and yet the SD will
take this into account, in the number of placed bets, together with future results and it will
lower the SD score, which I consider is unrealistic.

If I can get a satifactory answer to this question, I would be less hostile at the mention of
SD, directed towards any of my systems.

I will most probably agree to your request, but this taking into account of break even results
bugs me.

I will think about whether PB should here or on the website.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Only1Word on November 18, 2009, 04:37:17 PM
Heres a bizarre session I came across  :o
Wiesbaden 23/8/06 Tb3

1   15   B
2   23   R    -1
3   25   R     0      M-1
4   29   B    -1
5   25   R    -2      M-2
6   36   R    -1      M-3      +1
7   18   R     0      M-4      +2
8    0                               +1
9    0                                 0
10  32   R   +1     M-5       +1 ch
11  20   B     0     M-6       +2
12   0                               +1 ch
13   9    R    -1     M-7       +2 ch
14   6    B    -2     M-8       +3
15  16   R    -3     M-9       +4
16   0                               +3
17  18   R    -2     M-10     +4
18  32   R    -1     M-11     +5
19   0                               +4
20   3    R     0     M-12     +5
21  23   R   +1     M-13     +6
22   5    R   +2     M-14     +7
23  15   B   +1     M-15     +8
24  27   R     0     M-16     +9
25   6    B    -1     M-17     +10
26   6    B     0     M-16     +9

Have you seen a symbol reach 17 before? With all those pesky zeros, still a great result of +9.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Tangram on November 18, 2009, 04:42:06 PM
QuoteMy main objection has always been that SD (correct me if I am wrong) includes break even
results. It is quite possible for there to be 3 break even results in a row. I could therefore
walk into a casino, with say £200 and out again an hour later, with £200 and yet the SD will
take this into account, in the number of placed bets, together with future results and it will
lower the SD score, which I consider is unrealistic.

Richard,

I'll think on this and get back to you.  :thumbsup:

By the way, I do plan on giving your system a try, as soon as I've recovered from the last time around (post-signum stress disorder  :)). Just kidding, I did make a start on it but then some errors turned up, so I thought I'd wait until they were fixed, and a few more Q & A's were posted in this thread...
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: John1234 on November 18, 2009, 06:03:33 PM
Thank you very much for responding to my questions. I appreciate your hard work and you taking the time to help me out. Next time I have a question I will try my best to find it either on your site or on this forum.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 19, 2009, 05:15:50 AM
Quote from: Only1Word on November 18, 2009, 04:37:17 PM
Heres a bizarre session I came across  :o
Wiesbaden 23/8/06 Tb3

1   15   B
2   23   R    -1
3   25   R     0      M-1
4   29   B    -1
5   25   R    -2      M-2
6   36   R    -1      M-3      +1
7   18   R     0      M-4      +2
8    0                               +1
9    0                                 0
10  32   R   +1     M-5       +1 ch
11  20   B     0     M-6       +2
12   0                               +1 ch
13   9    R    -1     M-7       +2 ch
14   6    B    -2     M-8       +3
15  16   R    -3     M-9       +4
16   0                               +3
17  18   R    -2     M-10     +4
18  32   R    -1     M-11     +5
19   0                               +4
20   3    R     0     M-12     +5
21  23   R   +1     M-13     +6
22   5    R   +2     M-14     +7
23  15   B   +1     M-15     +8
24  27   R     0     M-16     +9
25   6    B    -1     M-17     +10
26   6    B     0     M-16     +9

Have you seen a symbol reach 17 before? With all those pesky zeros, still a great result of +9.

Bizarre is certainly the word for it! I have seen a long run, but they are rare, but never with all
those zero's and still make a +9 profit, truly amazing!

This session should be shown on the website and kept for posterity, it has to be several million
to one chance of a similar occurrence.

I would also have carried on beyond the 20 entry until the run ended. Anyone who says there is
no such thing as trends or you can't take advantage of a trend, should check out this session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 19, 2009, 05:31:33 AM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 18, 2009, 12:02:43 PM
You  will find it easier to set out a session using  table=, all in square brackets and to exit /table all in
sqare brackets. Then Row,B or R, etc.+1,

[table=,]
Row,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,R,,,
2,B,-1,,
3,R,-2,P+1,
4,B,-3,P+2
5,B,-2,P+1,-1
6,B,-1,OOO,-2
7,B,0,M-1
8,B,+1,,
9,B,+2,000,-3
10,B,+3,P+1
11,R,+2,P+2,-2
12,B,+1,P+1,-1
13,R,0,OOO,0
14,R,+1,P+1,
15,R,+2,OOO,-1,check
[/table]

In row 7 after the 0 we wouldn't kow whether to bet on Black or Red.

In row 8 there is +1 and as M is new the expectation is that it will continue to M-2.
Unfortunately a +2 in column 3 made it collapse as 0 was wanted and a bet on Red.

There are 12 entries so far, if you like to continue I or someone will have a look at it.

You have made a good start.

I was going to reply to your latest post but it disappeared.

I made an error in the above session. Row 11 should be OOO and not P+2.
After +3 for P to increase there would have to be +4 and as it went to +2,
P collapsed.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 19, 2009, 10:16:01 AM

Mr CHips, you found a total of +5 for this date Wiesbaden 7/03/09 Tb3 but I don't get the same result so can you, or someone else, tell me how you bet for this session please?

Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 19, 2009, 10:46:51 PM
Quote from: Mr Chips on November 19, 2009, 05:31:33 AM
I was going to reply to your latest post but it disappeared.

I made an error in the above session. Row 11 should be OOO and not P+2.
After +3 for P to increase there would have to be +4 and as it went to +2,
P collapsed.

Thanks for explanation. I removed my previous post as I thought I have not completelu understood application of symbols.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Tangram on November 20, 2009, 06:09:32 AM
Richard,

Thanks for adding the number of placed bets to your site.  :thumbsup:

Apart from anything else, it's useful because it will serve as an additional check for those who want to verify the results.

Regarding your objection that the measurement takes into account break even results, personally I think that this is a strength, not a weakness. This is because you can still get a good "score", even if your system breaks even (or even loses), so in that sense it's a more accurate and discriminating indicator than a simple profit figure. For example, if your system were to merely break even after 300 bets, the z-score would be 0.467 - not conclusive, and all it really tells you is that more testing is needed. If after a further 300 placed bets the score is now 0.661, you would still be at break even, but the score has increased, indicating that there may well be some merit in the method, even though no profit has been made.

If you were not monitoring the results in this way, then if a system didn't make any profit after a certain number of bets, it's likely that you would abandon it, because to continue testing a method which shows no gain is "obviously" a waste of time.  Also, if you're designing a system, the z-score can give you more precise feedback than profit made, or no. of wins versus no. of losses. By updating the z-score of your results on every bet, you can more quickly and easily see what's working and what isn't - you're more likely to avoid dead-ends and pursue promising avenues.

I'll work out the scores for the results on your site. You may want to add them alongside the "PB" column.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 20, 2009, 02:28:18 PM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 19, 2009, 10:16:01 AM
Mr CHips, you found a total of +5 for this date Wiesbaden 7/03/09 Tb3 but I don't get the same result so can you, or someone else, tell me how you bet for this session please?

Thank you in advance

If possible could you produce the session here. It doesn't matter if it's incorrect, as I will
look over it and give you an explanation.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Breeze88 on November 21, 2009, 08:37:59 AM

Hi All


Ok here is a loong session i tried .. please be so kind and look if iam on the right path ..

still in the learning process :)


thnx in advance ..

[table=]
1,2,3,4
G,,,
G,+1,,
R,0,M-1,
R,+1,,
G, 0, 000,
R,-1, M-1,-1
G,-2, 000,-2
R,-3,P+1,+1
G,-4,P+2,+2
R,-5,P+3,+3
R,-4,P+2,+2
G,-5,P+3,+1
G,-4,P+4,+2
G,-3, P+3,+1
R,-4,P+4,0
G,-5,P+3,+1
G,-4,P+4,+2
G,-3,P+3,+3
R,-4,P+4,+4
G,-5,P+3,+5
R,-6,P+2,+4
G,-7,P+3,+3
G,-6,P+2,+4
R,-7,P+3,+3
G,-8,P+2,+4
R,-9,P+3,+5
G,-10,P+4,+4
R,-11,P+5,+5
G,-12,P+6,+6
G,-11,P+5,+5
G,-10,P+4,+6
G,-9,P+3,+7
G,-8, P+2,+8
R,-9,P+3,+7
R,-8,P+4,+8
R,-7,P+3,+7
G,-8,P+4,+8
R,-9,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+2,+8
G,-9,P+3,+7
R,-10,P+4,+8
R,-9,P+5,+9
R,-8,P+4,+8
R,-7,P+3,+9
G,-8,P+4,+8
R,-9,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+2,+8
G,-9,P+3,+7
G,-8,P+2,+8
R,-9,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+2,+10
G,-9,P+3,+11
R,-10,P+4,+10
G,-11,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+4,+10
G,-9,P+3,+11
R,-10,P+4,+12
G,-11,P+3,+13
R,-12,P+2,+12
R,-11,P+1,+13
R,-10,P+2,+12
R,-9,P+1,+13
G,-10,P+2,+14[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Breeze88 on November 21, 2009, 01:17:10 PM
Here is another short session .. well it looks promissing so far .. i hope it is correct :-\

cheerz

G         
R    -1      
G   -2   P+1   
G   -1   ooo   -1
R    -2   P+1   0
R    -1   P+2   1
R    0   P+1   0
R    1   P+2   1
G   0   P+1   0
R    -1   ooo   1
G   -2   M-1   2
G   -1   ooo   1
G   0   M-1   2
R    -1   ooo   1
R    0   P+1   2
G   -1   P+2   3
G   0   P+3   4
R    -1   P+4   5
R    0   P+5   6
R    1   P+4   5
G   0   P+3   6
G   -1   P+4   7
R    -2   P+5   8
R    -1   P+4   7
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 22, 2009, 06:00:42 AM
Breeze your long session with some corrections

[table=,]
Row,G or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,G,,,
2,G,+1,,
3,R,0,M-1,
4,R,+1,,
5,G,0,OOO,
6,R,-1,M-1,
7,G,-2,OOO,+1
8,R,-3,P+1,
9,G,-4,P+2,0
10,R,-5,P+3,+1
11,R,-4,P+2,0
12,G,-5,P+3,-1
13,G,-4,P+4,0
14,G,-3,P+3,-1
15,R,-4,P+4,0
16,G,-5,P+3,+1
17,G,-4,P+4,+2
18,G,-3,P+3,+3
19,R,-4,P+4,+4
20,G,-5,P+3,+5
21,R,-6,P+2,+4
22,G,-7,P+3,+3
23,G,-6,P+2,+4
24,R,-7,P+3,+5
25,G,-8,P+2,+6
26,R,-9,P+3,+7
27,G,-10,P+4,+6
28,R,-11,P+5,+5
29,G,-12,P+6,+6
30,G,-11,P+5,+5
31,G,-10,P+4,+6
32,G,-9,P+3,+7
33,G,-8,P+2,+8
34,R,-9,P+3,+7
35,R,-8,P+4,+6
36,R,-7,P+3,+7
37,G,-8,P+4,+8
38,R,-9,P+3,+9
39,G,-10,P+2,+8
40,G,-9,P+3,+9
41,R,-10,P+4,+8
42,R,-9,P+5,+7
43,R,-8,P+4,+8
44,R,-7,P+3,+9
45,G,-8,P+4,+8
46,R,-9,P+3,+9
47,G,-10,P+2,+8
48,G,-9,P+3,+9
49,G,-8,P+2,+8
50,R,-9,P+3,+9
51,G,-10,P+2,+10
52,G,-9,P+3,+11
53,R,-10,P+4,+10
54,G,-11,P+3,+11
55,G,-10,P+4,+12
56,G,-9,P+3,+13
57,R,-10,P+4,+14
58,G,-11,P+3,+15
59,R,-12,P+2,+14
60,R,-11,P+3,+15
61,R,-10,P+2,+14
62,R,-9,P+1,+13
63,G,-10,P+2,+14
[/table]

I will look at your next one a bit later today.

In case anyone is wondering why this has gone beyond 20 entries, it's for a special test.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: droidman on November 22, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
Hey Richard,

On Breeze's long session, how did you figure out on row 15
that P would increase back to P+4?

I ask because I lose a lot of bets by these situations.

Thanks
droidman
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 22, 2009, 01:27:51 PM
Quote from: droidman on November 22, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
Hey Richard,

On Breeze's long session, how did you figure out on row 15
that P would increase back to P+4?

I ask because I lose a lot of bets by these situations.

Thanks
droidman


As I mentioned in the previous post, this is a special test I am helping Breeze with, but the question
you have asked will be helpful to other interested members here.

This particular test, as you will have seen has a strong tendency to create a number of C Formations.
Often they are prolonged and after a few rows there will be a brief A Formation, then again C. It appears
to be a characteristic of this particular test, but of course more work will be carried out, to see how this
assumption develops. It was therefore one piece of information I had available to me at row 14.

You will also notice the pattern in the units column, 1010101. Of course there are no guarantees, that
any information will be correct. Sometimes a pattern can be helpful  in columns 2 or 3. I like to think of
these pieces of info, as leading me to an informed decision. They will not of course always be correct,
but a number of such informed decisions, can make the difference between a profitable session and
a loss.

Also rows 12, 13, 14, P+3, P+4,P+3, convinced me that a C Formation had begun. In a regular 20 entry
session, it is likely a further P+4, would be necessary to then expect the development of C, especially
if there was no source of info from the other columns.

Signum was designed for humans to use directly not for a computer program, as the build up of
experience of using Signum seeking out every scrap of possible info in a session will assist the user
in making many profitable sessions.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 22, 2009, 02:10:00 PM
Breeze, your short test with corrections.

[table=,]
Row,G or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,G,,,
2,R,-1,,
3,G,-2,P+1,
4,G,-1,OOO,
5,R,-2,P+1,
6,R,-1,P+2,-1
7,R,0,P+1,-2
8,R,+1,,
9,G,0,OOO,-3
10,R,-1,M-1,
11,G,-2,M-2,-2
12,G,-1,M-1,-3
13,G,0,M-2,-2
14,R,-1,M-1,-1
15,R,0,OOO,-2
16,G,-1,P+1,
17,G,0,P+2,-1
18,R,-1,P+3,0
19,R,0,P+4,+1
20,R,+1,P+3,0
21,G,0,P+4,+1
22,G,+1,P+5,0
23,R,O,P+6,+1
24,R,+1,P+7,+2
[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 22, 2009, 11:17:30 PM
Hi Richard,

This is the session Wiesbaden 7/03/09 Tb3 which you requested (to be done) to Nherisson. I tried it...Can you pl go through and comment? I have not gone beyond 16th entry as on 17th entry we will not be betting and then we are very close to cut off of 20 entries.

[table=,]
Row ,  #     ,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,28,B,,,
2,17,B,+1,,
3,24,B,+2,P+1,
4,5,R,+1,OOO,
5,6,B,0,M-1,
6,19,R,-1,,
7,10,B,-2,OOO,+1 >>Assumption D
8,12,R,-3,P+1,
9,7,R,-2,OOO,+2
10,17,B,-3,P+1,
11,11,B,-2,P+2,+1
12,12,R,-1,P+1,0 >>Assumption start of A
13,33,B,-2,P+2,-1 >>Assumption reverting session to D
14,14,R,-3,P+1,0 >>Assumption C
15,8,B,-4,OOO,-1
16,3,R,-5,P+1,
17,29,B,-6,P+2,0 Ch >>Assumption C to continue (Not very sure)
18,22,B,-5,P+1,+1 Ch >> Never gone beyond P+2 in session
19,6,B,-4,OOO,0 Ch >> 16 th entry hence decided to quit
[/table]

Or it could have been played like this....

[table=,]
Row,#,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,28,B,,,
2,17,B,+1,,
3,24,B,+2,P+1,
4,5,R,+1,OOO,
5,6,B,0,M-1,
6,19,R,-1,,
7,10,B,-2,OOO,+1 >>Assumption D
8,12,R,-3,P+1,
9,7,R,-2,OOO,+2
10,17,B,-3,P+1,
11,11,B,-2,P+2,+1
12,12,R,-1,P+1,0 >>Assumption start of A
13,33,B,-2,P+2,+1 >>Assumption C
14,14,R,-3,P+1,+2
15,8,B,-4,OOO,+1
16,3,R,-5,P+1,
17,29,B,-6,P+2,+2 Ch >>Assumption C to continue
18,22,B,-5,P+1,+3 Ch >> Never gone beyond P+2 in session
19,6,B,-4,OOO,+2 Ch >> 16 th entry hence decided to quit
[/table]

Corrected session[table=,]
Row ,  #     ,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,28,B,,,
2,17,B,+1,,
3,24,B,+2,P+1,
4,5,R,+1,OOO,
5,6,B,0,M-1,
6,19,R,-1,,
7,10,B,-2,OOO,+1 >>Assumption D
8,12,R,-3,P+1,
9,7,R,-2,OOO,+2
10,17,B,-3,P+1,
11,11,B,-2,P+2,+1
12,12,R,-3,P+3,+2
13,33,B,-4,P+4,+3
14,14,R,-5,P+5,+4
15,8,B,-6,P+6,+5
16,3,R,-7,P+7,+6
17,29,B,-8,P+8,+7
18,22,B,-7,P+7,+6
[/table]
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 23, 2009, 05:15:20 AM
Bazee,

Check rows 11 & 12.

After 11 B-2 there should follow R-3, not R-1.

I have done it many times and when it happens it alters the whole session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bazeegar on November 23, 2009, 07:14:40 AM
Hi Richard,

I am sorry about the mistake. I will try to be more careful hereon. Can you please have a look the corrected session?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 23, 2009, 10:16:47 AM
Quote from: Bazeegar on November 23, 2009, 07:14:40 AM
Hi Richard,

I am sorry about the mistake. I will try to be more careful hereon. Can you please have a look the corrected session?

Yes it is now correct. The reason I had +5 units is because at row 7 I expected M-2. As you are getting more
and more familiar with Signum you will come to realise some decisions are just not set in stone. Now if
someone wanted to code Signum (a permanent headache) a set decision would have to be made either
the decision I made or the one you opted for. I have suggested when learning Signum to opt for my decision,
but your decision also will prove correct, as shown by your increased profit.

It is the experience of handling Signum, which will guide you from now on, as I have shown the basics of
the system and with more experience you will be a proficient skilled Signum player.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bruce on November 23, 2009, 02:17:16 PM
Hi Mr Chips,

Can I just ask u something about the results on the site. Are the results actual sessions you have played live, or are u taking random sets of spins and calculating the results?

It shouldn't make a difference of course, but with Signum being so subjective, is it possible that the results are biased because u know what will appear therefore allowing u to make the right decision?

I'm very impressed by Signum, so don't doubt its effectiveness. I'm just curious to know how reflective your results are of real life play. Will more wrong decisions be made if I were to play live as opposed to testing saved spins?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 23, 2009, 03:36:51 PM
Quote from: Bruce on November 23, 2009, 02:17:16 PM
Hi Mr Chips,

Can I just ask u something about the results on the site. Are the results actual sessions you have played live, or are u taking random sets of spins and calculating the results?

It shouldn't make a difference of course, but with Signum being so subjective, is it possible that the results are biased because u know what will appear therefore allowing u to make the right decision?

I'm very impressed by Signum, so don't doubt its effectiveness. I'm just curious to know how reflective your results are of real life play. Will more wrong decisions be made if I were to play live as opposed to testing saved spins?

It does say on the website they are from Wiesbaden spins. I have had the accusation directed at me before on
other systems. The idea of using Spielbank spins is that you or anyone can verify if the results are true and if
you understand the particular system you can work through the session and if you did not get the same result
you can ask for an explanation. If any other spins were produced then the criticism could be the results were made
up, results inflated to look good!

The point about Signum and other members here will no doubt confirm this, is that there is a short time frame
in which to complete a session. The maximum for a session is 20 entries. An entry refers to recording the symbols
including a losing zero. I have already been accused by a member here of fixing the results, so that I get many
favourable results. There would be many problems for me if that were true. I would have to do it in such a
way, that I would not get caught out. There are now a growing number of members here who understand how
Signum works. Many of the decisions in Signum are quite obvious, so not much room to cheat there. In a
complicated C session there has to be a good reason for example where there is P+3,P+4,P+3,P+4 to suddenly
decide to make what turned out to be the correct decision of P+5. There would have to be a good reason why
P+5 was chosen.

So as you can see not only is there a limited time frame for a session, but any strange decisions made say be me,
would be queried and if I did not come up with a reasonable explanation and did this on a regular basis, I would
quite rightly expect the accusations of bias and would soon be discredited.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 23, 2009, 03:44:49 PM
Bazeegar,

there is still a mistake in your corrected session from row 12 to 13.

At row 13 it should be P+2 I think.

Isn'it?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Nherisson on November 23, 2009, 03:56:53 PM
I found a session where it's difficult to decide how to bet. Can someone deal with this session

  1   36   R      
  2     1   R   1   
  3   23   R   2   P+1
  4   34   R   3   P+2
  5   10   N   2   P+1
  6   24   N   3   P+2
  7   14   R   2   P+3
  8   34   R   3   P+4
  9   18   R   4   P+3
10   17   N   3   P+2
11   31   N   4   P+3
12     5   R   3   P+4
13   29   N   2   P+3
14     0   0      
15   15   N   3   P+4
16     4   N   4   P+3
17   31   N   5   P+2
18     4   N   6   P+3
19   14   R   5   P+2
20   10   N   4   P+1
21   36   R   3   OOO

Thanks
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 23, 2009, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 23, 2009, 03:44:49 PM
Bazeegar,

there is still a mistake in your corrected session from row 12 to 13.

At row 13 it should be P+2 I think.

Isn'it?

Yes you right.

We will eventually get this session correct ::)

Did you get +3 units at the end of the session?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 23, 2009, 04:39:30 PM
Quote from: Nherisson on November 23, 2009, 03:56:53 PM
I found a session where it's difficult to decide how to bet. Can someone deal with this session

  1   36   R      
  2     1   R   1   
  3   23   R   2   P+1
  4   34   R   3   P+2
  5   10   N   2   P+1
  6   24   N   3   P+2
  7   14   R   2   P+3
  8   34   R   3   P+4
  9   18   R   4   P+3
10   17   N   3   P+2
11   31   N   4   P+3
12     5   R   3   P+4
13   29   N   2   P+3
14     0   0      
15   15   N   3   P+4
16     4   N   4   P+3
17   31   N   5   P+2
18     4   N   6   P+3
19   14   R   5   P+2
20   10   N   4   P+1
21   36   R   3   OOO

Thanks

This certainly a very difficult C session and a good practice session.

Hopefully to help you I have scored the session and at row 16 there is the first opportunity
to break even. See if you agree with my decisions and if not or you have some queries, I
will go over it with you in more detail.

-1
-2
-1
-2
-1
-2
-3
-2
-3
-2
-1
0
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Joker on November 23, 2009, 04:41:05 PM
Mr chips thank you for sharing your system.... and as people said you must have put so many hours to this..

thank you.... i have one question... how much does it important to use Low High and Mediumm numbers rule?

the reason why i asked you is that if this doesn't need to use then we can use this system to baccarat and that way we don't have to worry about 0 or 00....

any ideas on this?

thank you so much

Joker
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 23, 2009, 04:53:57 PM
Quote from: Joker on November 23, 2009, 04:41:05 PM
Mr chips thank you for sharing your system.... and as people said you must have put so many hours to this..

thank you.... I have one question... how much does it important to use Low High and Mediumm numbers rule?

the reason why I asked you is that if this doesn't need to use then we can use this system to baccarat and that way we don't have to worry about 0 or 00....

any ideas on this?

thank you so much

Joker

You wouldn't need to use it for baccarat.

I tried just a couple of sessions I should say part of a shoe. I am not familiar with the game.
but I got a reasonable result. Let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bruce on November 24, 2009, 10:11:14 PM
Hi Richard,

Could u check this session for me?

[table=,]
Row,G or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,B,,,
2,R,-1,,
3,R,0,M-1,
4,B,-1,,
5,R,-2,M-2,
6,R,-1,M-3,+1
7,R,0,M-4,+2
8,B,-1,M-3,+1
9,R,-2,M-4,+2
10,B,-3,M-5,+3
11,R,-4,M-4,+2
12,R,-3,M-5,+1
13,R,-2,M-6,0
14,R,-1,M-7,+1
15,R,0,M-8,+2
16,R,+1,M-9,+3
17,B,0,M-10,+4
18,R,-1,M-11,+5
19,R,0,M-10,+4
[/table]

Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 25, 2009, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Bruce on November 24, 2009, 10:11:14 PM
Hi Richard,

Could u check this session for me?

[table=,]
Row,G or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,B,,,
2,R,-1,,
3,R,0,M-1,
4,B,-1,,
5,R,-2,M-2,
6,R,-1,M-3,+1
7,R,0,M-4,+2
8,B,-1,M-3,+1
9,R,-2,M-4,+2
10,B,-3,M-5,+3
11,R,-4,M-4,+2
12,R,-3,M-5,+1
13,R,-2,M-6,0
14,R,-1,M-7,+1
15,R,0,M-8,+2
16,R,+1,M-9,+3
17,B,0,M-10,+4
18,R,-1,M-11,+5
19,R,0,M-10,+4
[/table]

Thanks for the help

It looks to me to be correct. The decision to go from M-3 to M-4 rows 8 & 9 would be a difficult
decision to call.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Bruce on November 26, 2009, 04:37:59 PM
I pretty much get how signum works now, apart from the check thing.

I understand when u need to place a check (three repeat of a unit), but I don't know what it's supposed to show and what I'm supposed to do.

I know we evaluate the session, but what does that mean? If I have a check and I see it showing a C formation, should I be looking to exit when I break even?

What if I have a check, but I see an A formation forming? Should I continue or look to exit?
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 27, 2009, 04:13:34 AM
Quote from: Bruce on November 26, 2009, 04:37:59 PM
I pretty much get how signum works now, apart from the check thing.

I understand when u need to place a check (three repeat of a unit), but I don't know what it's supposed to show and what I'm supposed to do.

I know we evaluate the session, but what does that mean? If I have a check and I see it showing a C formation, should I be looking to exit when I break even?

What if I have a check, but I see an A formation forming? Should I continue or look to exit?

The checks act as a brake and for you to think carefully about a particular session.

The nearer you get to the 20 entry cut off the more important the checks become. Say for example
you had a check showing +1 early in the session, then at entry 17 there was +1, that check acts
as a warning flag now that serious consideration must be given to exit the session with a +1 profit.

If you replace the +1 example above with 0, and it has been a difficult session say -2 and -3 during
the session then to break even would be a good result. This is an excellent way to reduce losses.
Often you will get the opportunity to break even and therefore it is essential to accept this and not
try and get a profit from difficult non profitable sessions.

It is difficult to answer your last point "A formation forming" a I don't know the circumstances of
the session.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on November 30, 2009, 05:56:07 AM
Unfortunately I have had to lock this thread due to recent events, concerning a disruptive member.

So far the Moderators have taken no action and if by the end of this week, I have not received a
satisfactory reply from them, then unfortunately my association with this forum will end.

I should like to thank those members who have shown an interest in Signum and for their help
in pointing out errors on the website.

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Mr Chips on December 02, 2009, 05:35:37 PM
Hopefully soon, arrangements will be made to continue this thread elsewhere, where there will no
disruption and members will be able to post their sessions and get help in understanding Signum.

I will put links on the Signum website at the appropriate time.

Richard
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: Lanky on December 03, 2009, 09:07:23 PM
Hi Richard.

I have unlocked this so I can post...I will re-lock it when the post is done.

Mate I make no secret of the fact that Herb and others of the Advantage Players are Friends of mine.

As are You Richard.........
The only difference being is that I have known some of them longer then You.

And it will take a lot more then what is said on a Forum to change that.

I would imagine that We would actually have to do something to each other for us NOT to be Friends anymore....something I hope never happens.

Now in the past I have stuck up for what I believe to be the decent thing to do for the sake of any Member....and I believe that I have done that in the past.

Now on this occasion I put Myself in Your shoes and I put forward to the Mods that I would feel as Frustrated as You are feeling right now.

I believe that You have had Your Topics constantly Disrupted, been held up to Public Ridicule , and that You have put up with all this for about a Year.

I can assure You that I posted every bad PM that You Reported to Me in the Mods Area.

And I have said to people that I would be Pissed about it if it was Me that this happen to as well.

Having said all that.
I have to tell You that it's the consensus of the Moderating Crew that You went about things the wrong way.

First You put a post up about having a Member Banned
And that this is generally seen as You giving Us an ultimatum or else.

Well that is just not going to work My Friend.

If We acted on that then We would be setting a Precedent for every Member to do the same thing about every other Member that they did not get on with.

Another thing is this You chose to come out of where Your Section was where You virtually had complete control over the posts that could or not stay there.
Sometimes this would have been as simple as pressing the Report to Moderator Button on the bottom right hand side of the offending post.

By now Your probably ready to kill the Messenger .....
If that's the case My Friend then You better get in Quick because there is Quite an impressive line up to do that to Me as it is.

And the line is only going to get bigger after I tell You what I am about to say.

We the Mods have lost some aspects of the Forum that prevented a lot of these Disruptions to take place with all the times that the Forum went down.

(And Thanks to Victor who just keeps going on with it to bring it back every time.
Its very much appreciated Victor)

Now I am pleased to say that some of those aspects are now back in place and to those that have gotten away with Disruptions and other things in the past simply won't be able to do that going forward as of now Richard.

Some people hate Me for retaining the Family aspect of this Forum.
Its Ironic really because they have been telling us for years ever since the 1st Forum that it won't work.
And yet the Membership has grown from 3 to nearly 3,500 as of now.
Also the amount of goodwill messages from the other Members far out number the bad ones anyway.

And those people who persist in Disrupting Threads and or post bad posts with now be dealt with in another way by being put into Pre-Moderation for however long it takes for them to restart posting acceptable posts.
If they don't then there is always other Forums that will accommodate that type of behaviour.

Now Me running away from those that dislike Me is not going to do anything except give those people the Victory they so crave.

And Richard if You go away without giving this Forum a chance to rectify its self then Your just handing those people a Win Situation on a Platter.

However as always it's the Members choice to do what it is that they think that is best for them and the other Members that are following the Method.

And I can assure You Richard there is a lot more people then You know that are trying to learn what it is that Your trying to teach them.

If You Go the Mods wish You all the best My Friend.

If You stay We would welcome that as well.

I will now Lock this thread again Richard.

Lanky.
Title: Re: Signum system EC B&R
Post by: cheese on June 09, 2011, 08:20:08 AM
Once a load of crapola, still a load of crapola..