How random are RNG's

[winkel]

Dude, just take your head out of your arse and smell the coffee oke.

I like this kind of conversation.  

[TwoCatSam]

Fellers........

I smell the coffee!  

I really feel you guys are discussing two different things.

First, is a roulette wheel a mechanical random number generator?  I think the jury is still out on that question.

Second, is a TRNG such as is found at Random.org and a computer program you are using at an on-line casino the same thing.  Maybe, maybe not.  Gismotron (where are you?) agreed with my statement that a computer could be programmed to beat you just by placing the puck where you have no bet.  This is not random play; it is sucking your money off the table.

Has anyone played roulette at Random.org?  I have.  Program it to give you one selection out of 37 and 37 is the zero.  It will not produce a zero.  I saw some strange things and there was no enticement for me to bet or lose money.

TwoCat's Law of Numbers:

Numbers do strange things.  If they didn't they'd do stranger things.

TwoCatSam
(a two-cat man)

[Wildcard]

 @ TwoCatSam : You said

Program it to give you one selection out of 37 and 37 is the zero.  It will not produce a zero.

I don´t think i quite understand what you mean by that !!


I´ve taken loads of "virtual" TRNG spins from Random.org and i get zeros. HERE´S WHAT I DO  (FOR EXAMPLE´S SAKE):

_________________________________________________________________________


>> I go to nolinks://nolinks.random.org/integers/   ------------  Then, i find roughly this:

....

Part 1: The Integers

Generate  [highlight]1000[/highlight] (EXAMPLE) random integers (maximum 10,000).

[highlight]Each integer should have a value between[/highlight][size=26] 0[/size] and [size=26]36[/size]  (both inclusive; limits ±1,000,000,000).

Format in [size=18]1[/size] column(s).

_________________________________________________________________________

And that´s it ... we don´t need "37", we simply ask for numbers between 0 and 36 ... as it should be... and believe me zeros will be there.  

[TwoCatSam]

Well, I reckon I did something wrong.  I'll try again.

Thanks.....

[Wildcard]

  No problem, TwoCatSam, hope you manage to overcome the zeros  

[thypon066]

They are random enough to steal all your money...doesn't matter what you bet, the ball will land on the number that you didn't cover...i've played a lot of rgn's roulette, and always it's the same story, at the start you win, after a while you stop to win, and at the end you lose, and when you try to play different rgn's to make like 10 quids for each for day, like 50-60 quids, they all make you lose at the start, no matters what you bet or what sistem you use...they are a programmed slots machine with a payout 80-20...with compliments to the random...i have seen a lot of strange things at least, the last one was when betting a sector 12 numbers around the 0, well when the ball was coming slow to my numbers, it starts to be fast just to go over them...instead when it was coming fast and it looks like to land there, it starts to slow down just to get the number before your sector...and another thing is when you bet a small bet sometime you can get away with it, but when you bet high or with a progression you'll get busted...and the minimum bet on rgn's is 10cent on most casinos, on the live wheels the min. is 1-2-5 pounds-euro-dollars, that mean something... and when you play for fun you win most of the time... and when you spin without bet, it look's like your sistem works, but when you bet money...houston we got problems...once i was betting on the 0, it was coming every 12-18 spins, i've started to bet on it, after 1 try i got it at the 36th spin...after that it missed for 174 spins....when i've stop to bet it....it come 3 in a row, and 5 times in 15 spins...so my opinion is that rgn's are to avoid like a plague, i never heard of somebody win at rgn's, a part the usually people they have claimed big wins without any prove of it...

Ivo

[hoper35]

Not random at all, imo.  I only play real casinos even though it takes me an hour to get there.

[Lanky]

after 1 try I got it at the 36th spin...after that it missed for 174 spins....when I've stop to bet it....it come 3 in a row, and 5 times in 15 spins...so my opinion is that rgn's are to avoid like a plague,  

Ivo My Mate.

Don't take this the wrong way as I am not trying to get into a argument over Rng.
But based on your figures of spins 36+174+15=225 spins in total.
So the Zero hit 6 times in 225 spins = 1 hit every 37.5 spins

Thats pretty close to 1 in 37 spins Cobber.

Your Friend

Lanky

[Ka2]

Indeed why do casino's have a minimum table bet of 0,25 cent on rng, and when its live, its changes to 5 or 10??? Like i said before If i could play on a multiplayer rng, i would play. But not on a individual programmed slot machine.

[thypon066]

after 1 try I got it at the 36th spin...after that it missed for 174 spins....when I've stop to bet it....it come 3 in a row, and 5 times in 15 spins...so my opinion is that rgn's are to avoid like a plague,  

Ivo My Mate.

Don't take this the wrong way as I am not trying to get into a argument over Rng.
But based on your figures of spins 36+174+15=225 spins in total.
So the Zero hit 6 times in 225 spins = 1 hit every 37.5 spins

Thats pretty close to 1 in 37 spins Cobber.

Your Friend

Lanky

Hello Lanky, nice to hear from you, looks like you are recovering well yeah you are right about the statistic, but you should have seen the ball how it was running and landing...i was just betting 10p for bet, just to have a prove that something was wrong there....a lot of times it went on the 26 or 32 just accurately avoiding the 0...and finally after 174 spins that was missing, i've stopped to bet, it starts to hit the 0 like crazy   3 in a row and 5 in 15 spins...just after i've stopped to bet...it was so suspicious, and about the multiplayers roulette, yeah i've tried also this but is exactly the same...so no more rgn's for me, i'll start to play live wheels to see what it will be the income..

Regards
Ivo

[TwoCatSam]

Not wanting to get into a tiff either, but that "waiting for a waker" system is one I use on real wheels all the time.  I see a number sleep for 74 spins and when it hits once, maybe it sleeps 150 spins, I bet it to hit the second time within ten spins.

Sam

[thypon066]

Not wanting to get into a tiff either, but that "waiting for a waker" system is one I use on real wheels all the time.  I see a number sleep for 74 spins and when it hits once, maybe it sleeps 150 spins, I bet it to hit the second time within ten spins.

Sam

Hi Sam, yeah i can accept it in a real wheel, that's the gambling no probs with that, but on a rgn wheel with the ball that is going fast or slow just to make you lose the bet, and you can clearly see it...i'm not going to play them anymore, most of the time you really feel that the machine is against you, specially on a progression, doesn't  matter what you bet you'll lose, and if you stop the progression your number will came...i don't judge the statistic percentual for a number to hit, but it's just the way how the ball run and land everytime on the wrong numbers...it didn't look clean at all

Regards
Ivo

[Ka2]

Same with blackjack rng, I remember one time, when i was playing I made 300, next day when I started playing i lost it all. Why due ridiculous odds. I had 20 dealer had 12, card. dealer has 21. I had 21 dealer has 10, card. dealer has blackjack. I have blackjack, dealer has blackjack, this went on and on like almost 40 bets in a row. The total outcome was 9 to 1 for the house, which can happen ofcourse, but this happend to me 4 sessions straight. So that's 36 to 1!!!!! While normally the house edge is 1,5% for a blackjack game.

Sure rng is fair, in a computer lab, not in a casino.

[TwoCatSam]

"Sure rng is fair, in a computer lab, not in a casino."

Ah, there's the truth for ya!

Sam

[Wildcard]

[highlight]@Ka2[/highlight]

You said :

Indeed why do casino's have a minimum table bet of 0,25 cent on rng, and when its live, its changes to 5 or 10???

This is not correct. Some do, others don´t.

I play at a casino where the minumum bet at the REAL [highlight]live[/highlight] wheel is 0,10 cent.

As to RNGs .......... RUN AND DON´T EVER STOP RUNNING  !!!    

[Wildcard]

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