SECTOR LANDINGS

[GUTCH]

G'day People

Hope everyone is doing well and winning. I haven;t posted on here for a while, but have been doing penty of reading. Here's a quesion...

If let's say we were to divide the wheel into three sectors, two containing twelve numbers and one containing 13 numbers (including the zero on a single zero wheel). After any given landing, do you think the probability of the next landing being in the same sector as 0.33 approximately, less than this or greater than this? Any explaination as to how you come to your conclusion would be great. Thanks.

[Ravon]

G'day People

Hope everyone is doing well and winning. I haven;t posted on here for a while, but have been doing penty of reading. Here's a quesion...

If let's say we were to divide the wheel into three sectors, two containing twelve numbers and one containing 13 numbers (including the zero on a single zero wheel). After any given landing, do you think the probability of the next landing being in the same sector as 0.33 approximately, less than this or greater than this? Any explaination as to how you come to your conclusion would be great. Thanks.

The odds for the same sector (or any two sectors that you specify) to come up twice in a row is 10.89 percent (.33 * .33). BUT once one sector has already come up, the odds become 33 percent for the sector to come up again. It's a bit confusing, but math often is.

[GUTCH]

Ravon

I know what the mathematical probabilitiy is. I was thinking more of in terms of the fact the dealer is spinning the ball from the sector where it had just landed. Could that reduce or increase that sector hitting again the very next spin? I'm thinking outside the obvious mathematics as the ball is not dropped into the very centre of the wheel each spin, but based on the dealer's handywork.

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

HI GUTCH, and all,


What you write about, is very close to what I'm currently investigating...
But we differ in some respect.

I don't think it's wise to use pre-determined - "rigid" - sectors.

Think about it for a while.
I think it's easiest to imagine the ball-release being done in the center of a sector.
If not for anything else so for measuring purposes.
If the ball is released in the center, this means that the sector is "floating" and can at any one release, be defined by a new set of numbers.
In my view, it's only logics.

There's also another reason why I think this is the best way: Statistics.
Using Wiesbaden and Hamburg spins, I have never found anything showing hits above the math average when I have used sectors defined by the numbers.
(Actually, not anything defined by the numbers themselves)

I also think it's important to separate clock-wise and counter clock-wise spins.
The dealers definitely throw different in the different directions. You will see it very clearly if you separate them.


I use these tools right now:

The spins I posted in the "Actuals / Permanences" section:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/actuals-permanences/w-baden-dealers-cw-cc-spins/

The "Distance Tracker" I posted in the Software section:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/other-software-for-roulette/kfs%27-distance-tracker/

I also like to see what happens on the wheel in a graph so I use Grabb's "calculators":
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/grabb/
Especially the "Hot" and "Bias".


My (very personal) reasons for doing my "search" in this manner were posted here:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/bet-selection/independent-trials-bet-selections-some-thoughts/


I wish you good luck, friend.
KFS


PS.
Nothing to report, yet.
Except a pair of red eyes from staring at ball-direction bars

[TwoCatSam]

A modified GAMLET idea............

During the numerous hours I've spent playing the G.U.T., I've noticed when the dealer throws two spins which land within three pockets of each other back to back, there is a pretty good chance she will hit very close to those three pockets on the very next spin.  I am thinking one pocket on each side for five pockets.  Of course, numbers next to each other and the double hit count as a play, too.

I see this as a one-spin play.

Here's the logic:

Ball is on 0 and she spins.  Makes no difference which way she's spinning.  It lands on 26, right next to 0.  That means for one spin, she has dropped the ball within one pocket of her last spin.  I'm betting she will do it twice in a row.  Say the ball lands on 10.  She is way off targed, 180 degrees out.  Now the play ends as she may hit the 5 next time. 

I've watched this many hundreds of spins and it seems to be a viable method of betting.  It is, of course, an adjunct method of betting as one would sit for way too long waiting for this to happen if he was not playing something else.

Sam

[JHM]

KFS,

I like your distance tracker. It's a great tool. I don't think it is suitable for the Wiesbaden spins. Last weekend I visited the casino and watched how the dealer spun. All different. What I noticed, most don't release the ball from the last number hit, but from another number. So the distance between last nr. hit and next hit can be different. We need the release point of the spin and where the ball lands for a good analysis.

[GUTCH]

OK so the idea of 'floating' sectors I think is a good one. If I am correct, KFS was referring sectors around the number spun each landing. I have prepared some charts. Forgive me if this results in a large post.

So firstly we have a list of sectors as they relate to where the ball had just landed. Not sure why it pastes from Exel into here with no borders, bold and with larger spacing. The centre number being where the ball has landed (0, 1, 2, etc)...

7   28   12   35   3   26   0   32   15   19   4   21   2
23   10   5   24   16   33   1   20   14   31   9   22   18
0   32   15   19   4   21   2   25   17   34   6   27   13
18   29   7   28   12   35   3   26   0   32   15   19   4
3   26   0   32   15   19   4   21   2   25   17   34   6
36   11   30   8   23   10   5   24   16   33   1   20   14
4   21   2   25   17   34   6   27   13   36   11   30   8
14   31   9   22   18   29   7   28   12   35   3   26   0
6   27   13   36   11   30   8   23   10   5   24   16   33
16   33   1   20   14   31   9   22   18   29   7   28   12
13   36   11   30   8   23   10   5   24   16   33   1   20
17   34   6   27   13   36   11   30   8   23   10   5   24
9   22   18   29   7   28   12   35   3   26   0   32   15
2   25   17   34   6   27   13   36   11   30   8   23   10
5   24   16   33   1   20   14   31   9   22   18   29   7
12   35   3   26   0   32   15   19   4   21   2   25   17
30   8   23   10   5   24   16   33   1   20   14   31   9
15   19   4   21   2   25   17   34   6   27   13   36   11
1   20   14   31   9   22   18   29   7   28   12   35   3
35   3   26   0   32   15   19   4   21   2   25   17   34
10   5   24   16   33   1   20   14   31   9   22   18   29
26   0   32   15   19   4   21   2   25   17   34   6   27
33   1   20   14   31   9   22   18   29   7   28   12   35
27   13   36   11   30   8   23   10   5   24   16   33   1
11   30   8   23   10   5   24   16   33   1   20   14   31
32   15   19   4   21   2   25   17   34   6   27   13   36
29   7   28   12   35   3   26   0   32   15   19   4   21
21   2   25   17   34   6   27   13   36   11   30   8   23
31   9   22   18   29   7   28   12   35   3   26   0   32
20   14   31   9   22   18   29   7   28   12   35   3   26
34   6   27   13   36   11   30   8   23   10   5   24   16
24   16   33   1   20   14   31   9   22   18   29   7   28
28   12   35   3   26   0   32   15   19   4   21   2   25
8   23   10   5   24   16   33   1   20   14   31   9   22
19   4   21   2   25   17   34   6   27   13   36   11   30
22   18   29   7   28   12   35   3   26   0   32   15   19
25   17   34   6   27   13   36   11   30   8   23   10   5

Now what about the idea of betting that the next spin will not land in the same sector twice in a row. This means that the following chart shows the number landed on down the left side and what numbers one would bet on to the right of this. I have also arranged them in numerical order to make tracking easier. Let's hope this cut and paste works...

0   1   5   6   8   9   10   11   13   14   16   17   18   20   22   23   24   25   27   29   30   31   33   34   36
1   0   2   3   4   6   7   8   11   12   13   15   17   19   21   25   26   27   28   29   30   32   34   35   36
2   1   3   5   7   8   9   10   11   12   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   26   28   29   30   31   33   35   36
3   1   2   5   6   8   9   10   11   13   14   16   17   20   21   22   23   24   25   27   30   31   33   34   36
4   1   5   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   27   28   29   30   31   33   35   36
5   0   2   3   4   6   7   9   12   13   15   17   18   19   21   22   25   26   27   28   29   31   32   34   35
6   0   1   3   5   7   9   10   12   14   15   16   18   19   20   22   23   24   26   28   29   31   32   33   35
7   1   2   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   15   16   17   19   20   21   23   24   25   27   30   32   33   34   36
8   0   1   2   3   4   7   9   12   14   15   17   18   19   20   21   22   25   26   28   29   31   32   34   35
9   0   2   3   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   15   17   19   21   23   24   25   26   27   30   32   34   35   36
10   0   2   3   4   6   7   9   12   14   15   17   18   19   21   22   25   26   27   28   29   31   32   34   35
11   0   1   2   3   4   7   9   12   14   15   16   18   19   20   21   22   25   26   28   29   31   32   33   35
12   1   2   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   14   16   17   19   20   21   23   24   25   27   30   31   33   34   36
13   0   1   3   4   5   7   9   12   14   15   16   18   19   20   21   22   24   26   28   29   31   32   33   35
14   0   2   3   4   6   8   10   11   12   13   15   17   19   21   23   25   26   27   28   30   32   34   35   36
15   1   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   13   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   27   28   29   30   31   33   34   36
16   0   2   3   4   6   7   11   12   13   15   17   18   19   21   22   25   26   27   28   29   32   34   35   36
17   0   1   3   5   7   8   9   10   12   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   26   28   29   30   31   32   33   35
18   0   2   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   15   16   17   19   21   23   24   25   26   27   30   32   33   34   36
19   1   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   27   28   29   30   31   33   36
20   0   2   3   4   6   7   8   11   12   13   15   17   19   21   23   25   26   27   28   30   32   34   35   36
21   1   3   5   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   28   29   30   31   33   35   36
22   0   2   3   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   15   16   17   19   21   23   24   25   26   27   30   32   34   36
23   0   2   3   4   6   7   9   12   14   15   17   18   19   20   21   22   25   26   28   29   31   32   34   35
24   0   2   3   4   6   7   9   12   13   15   17   18   19   21   22   25   26   27   28   29   32   34   35   36
25   0   1   3   5   7   8   9   10   11   12   14   16   18   20   22   23   24   26   28   29   30   31   33   35
26   1   2   5   6   8   9   10   11   13   14   16   17   18   20   22   23   24   25   27   30   31   33   34   36
27   0   1   3   4   5   7   9   10   12   14   15   16   18   19   20   22   24   26   28   29   31   32   33   35
28   1   2   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   14   15   16   17   19   20   21   23   24   25   27   30   33   34   36
29   0   1   2   4   5   6   8   10   11   13   15   16   17   19   21   23   24   25   27   30   32   33   34   36
30   0   1   2   3   4   7   9   12   14   15   17   18   19   20   21   22   25   26   28   29   31   32   33   35
31   0   2   3   4   5   6   8   10   11   12   13   15   17   19   21   23   25   26   27   30   32   34   35   36
32   1   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   13   14   16   17   18   20   22   23   24   27   29   30   31   33   34   36
33   0   2   3   4   6   7   11   12   13   15   17   18   19   21   25   26   27   28   29   30   32   34   35   36
34   0   1   3   5   7   8   9   10   12   14   15   16   18   20   22   23   24   26   28   29   31   32   33   35
35   1   2   4   5   6   8   9   10   11   13   14   16   17   20   21   23   24   25   27   30   31   33   34   36
36   0   1   2   3   4   7   9   12   14   15   16   18   19   20   21   22   24   26   28   29   31   32   33   35

So for example if a 36 comes up, you would bet on 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22,    24, 26, 28, 29, 31, 32, 33 & 35

I'm thinking you would then need to use a progression. I'm thinking the leftest most cancellation one that Victor has produced when using his thirds recovery betting system. I also don't see any benefit of not betting after a loss and waiting until a win has shown. Maybe I'm wrong.

Any comments, questions or even testing would be greatly appreciated.

[GUTCH]

Apologies, perhaps my last post should have been placed in "Roulette & Gambling Framework"

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Hello all,

GUTCH,
Well, I really meant that the center is the number where the ball is released - not landed last.
The confusion may come from how I thought they throw the ball at Wiesbaden...
Releasing it when the last winning number passes the hand.
(See my reply to JHM below)

Man, you really put a lot of work into those tables.
Well done!


JHM,
Thanks for your kind words, I'm happy that you like the tracker.


And: Thanks for the information, I'm sooo sad that the information I got was DIS-information.
[smiley=3/badmood.gif][smiley=3/badmood.gif][smiley=3/badmood.gif]
Too bad, really.
But maybe that explains why I haven't been able to find something in those files.


Without the release-numbers, it's not possible to investigate how my theories work.


It's too bad I've spent so many hours on something based on false information.
So, I thank you, who gave me this "info"  [smiley=2/grrr.gif][smiley=2/grrr.gif][smiley=2/grrr.gif]
I specifically asked for someone who know the circumstances...
[smiley=3/devil.gif]
But maybe I wouldn't have made the tracker otherwise, so maybe something good came out of it anyway...


JHM, do you know if their air-ball machine is releasing the ball at the last hitting number?
(If they have one, that is... Maybe that was "disinformation" as well...)
The one machine I have seen, did that.
And quite exactly, also.
And it reversed the direction every spin.


Best regards,
KFS

[JHM]

KFS,

Don't worry. Maybe you should be happy that the information you tested is false. Maybe some clear information will give the tests a much better outcome. The tool itself is great, you made it with a purpose. And that's still the same. We just need the right information to put in. 

When I visit the casino again I'll try to write down some release numbers and hit nr's for you to do some testing. As for the air ball, I'm not sure, when I visit the casino again I'll have a look at the air ball too (it's in the casino as well). I'll let you know.

I don't go to the casino weekly, but when I visit I'll write down some stuff.

JHM

[Kelly]

3 number sectors sheet from the archive.

A bit simplyfied, since there is some handmovement when the ball is released you can choose to relatively safely work in 3 number sectors rather than the actual release number.




Use of the sheet: If you have a CW spin with release point at number 10 and outcome number at number 20 you find first #10 in the top line of CW table (row 6) and then 20 in the far left row (20, 14, 31). You then correlate the two sectors you get in the middle of the diagram and find that the distance is 2.

Here is an example of 3 out of 4. We asume release point from last outcome number, if not check for exact release number)

1. Spin. Clockwise 10 (find 10 in top row = sector 6)
2. Spin. CClockw 10 (find 10 in the left cc and find 10 in the top row. Dist= 0)
3. Spin. Clockw. 20. (find 10 in the top line and 20 in the left row in cc diagram dist = 2)
4. Spin. CClockw 35 (find 20 in top line and 35 in left row dist = 9)
5. Spin. Clockw.25 (find 35 in top line and 25 in left row dist = 3)
6. Spin.30 CClockw dist 9
7. Spin.18 Clockw dist 4
8. Spin.15 CClockw dist 9
9. Spin.17Clockw dist 2
10. Spin 8 CClockw

So it looks like this

cw...no distance
ccw............0..........
cw...2
ccw.............9
cw...3
ccw.............9
cw...4
ccw.............9 signal 3 out of 4 indicates bet on distance 9 on next 2  ccw spin)
cw...2
ccw.......Betting for distance 9 from release point.

PS: No you can`t asume that the last fallen number is also the next release number, it needs to be visually verified.

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the encouragement!

And thank you Kelly for the suggestion for 3-pocket "numbers".
That's great.

BTW, Kelly, this is what your spin-sequence CW 10-10-20-35-25-30-18-15-17-8 above looks like if entered into the tracker:
[attachimg=#1]


JHM, yes please do gather information.
Very kind of you!
The air¨ball I've seen shot the ball above the last winning number with good accuracy.
I happened to notice it when there were two zeros.
(Have you input 200 spins from Wiesbaden table #8? I have. Looks terrific for "ocular inspection" )


Regards,
KFS

[Kingpin]

Yeah Kelly Nice idea with 3 pocket numbers.

Would be awesome if that could somehow be coded to a tracker...KFS? 

Br
Kingpin

[Carpanta]

Hi Mates,

First of all let me do some introducing to the point. I try to perform a way of playing putting into practice key times.
We can assume there are 3 key times: 3 6 9. These key times are meant to messure distance among sockets in the wheel.

Key time 3: 3 12 21 30
Key time 6: 6 15 24 33
Key time 9: 9 18 27 36

Then on the other hand we can connect 3 set of 12 numbers in a particular way. Those numbers distance 3, in a chain, belong to the same group.

So we have:

Group 1: 32 4 25 6 36 8 5 33 14 22 7 35
Group 2: 15 21 17 27 11 23 24 1 31 18 28 3
Group 3: 19 2 34 13 30 10 16 20 9 29 12 26

Number 0 isnt taken into account for our purpose neither for taking part in a group nor for counting sockets.

Just a hint: hit number has two partners, its neighbour both sides making a set of 3 numbers and so we dont have to stick to fixed sectors but moving ones.


Not to say I agree with mate Kun Fu Sed, Kelly and other forists aiming wheel approach as an option for developing betting strategies.

As I assume you are open minded people, do you take the challenge to improve sort of a playing method with this information?

Suggesions accepted and discussed !

Cheers,
Carlos.

[Carpanta]

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