William Hill Casino - Feedback Requested

[Steve]

You may have heard I'm stopping sales of my products as I dont have time to take new players. It doesnt at all mean I'll stop with roulette. It only means stopping sales. This means the ads on the forum will change. I've already removed the floatover ad.

Now bids are being made for advertising on the forum. One of the bidders is William Hill. But no matter what the fees are, I wont promote an unfair casino, and I wont use ads that are plain annoying to logged in members. So I'm asking eveyone for feedback with this casino.

1. Have they ever been refused payout?
2. How is their service?
3. How are their games and interfaces?

Basically any feedback is appreciated.

[shaineicus]

Have used many times both for roulette and sportsbook. No problems at all and quick to payout..


cheers

[ausguy]

Steve - Higher limit tables not so high?  2 - 100 limits on 1: 1 bets not good. Thats only a 50 : 1 ratio. Compare Smart Live air wheel at 1 - 500 = 500 : 1. Live dealer 10 - 1,000 = 100:1 and linked GURU play (same dealers) 10 - 1500 = 150 :1. Higher stake players are not catered for?

Graphics are good. Playtech processing good. View of wheel is constantly in view during spin, good.  Latvian "baby doll" acting dealers are pretty lame and sometimes speak too softly to hear the ball drop number. It does display the drop though, so no big deal.

Auto log out activates if you don't bet for a while, waiting for a trigger or similar. Maybe a bet or 2 
in the intervals & then cancel would solve that part?

Condition free bonuses are good, I got 2 this week 4 & 5 quid. Did some testing on code 4. Stake was too small so eventually lost but WH money not mine. I stopped playing there because of the poor bet ratios last year. My WH account is still valid though.
Frequent player rewards would be good without high playthrough conditions. Say just playthrough your valid reward amount and if you win then you may withdraw it if you wish?

Casino rewards.com has something like this, Yukon Gold etc. Once you get 1,000 points up you can convert it to nil conditions play credit, 10 bucks per 1,000 I think?  This joint is RNG & I haven't played it for nearly 2 years

The WH spin cycles are close to 1 minute each. Good if you like fast play. Not good if you need time to get lots of bets down.

Chip betting control could be better in so far as options go. Smart Live layout leaves WH for dead.
eg at SL the bet button increases your bet by your base amount each time you click the bet button. WH doesn't. SL has delete last bet Wh doesn't. If you make a mistake at WH you have to clear and start again. Rather tough with multiple bets and a narrow time window.

What would be good for array bets and alternating bet stategies are easy to use storage registers that retains all the base bets. Say between 5 - 10 registers. With a decent array bet panel to "edit" the bets. IE.. Increase some more than others as needed?

Casinos need to cater for the more the knowledgeable player these days. Many players won't continue to throw their money away if they don't at least have a fighting chance to win. I For one  won't.

I think it would be worthwhile for William Hill to run a survey across all 3 forums Steve. From the information they receive they may reformat their roulette betting to much higher game limits. Probably just more on screen layouts?

Innovation - How about a no zero airball wheel rivalling or exceeding bet voyager? How about a no zero live dealer wheel, now that would be a 1st? They can run low & high limits off any of these tables just like they already do.

WH could reward participants with a reasonable low condition bonus. As an extra carrot have some really decent top 10 prizes for the best suggestions as decided by senior WH management.
How about 10,000GBP for 1st place in casino credits. That would be a good challenge to playthrough. Then the prizes could step down to 500 GBP for 10th place & 50 GBP for each valid contributor. Critics & frivilous remarks would be invalid.

Suggest you join up Steve and spend a modest stake to see the WH set up.

Branson did it with Virgin, why not WH with roulette?

[Entropy]

Steve,

Please take a look here.

I've also spoken about my experience with some CasinoMeister members and an admin, they all told me this kind of behavior is nothing new for William Hill and its group of casinos. They have an incompetent staff who will block you the moment they realize you have some magical winning system, and they won't care what you as a customer will say. They're one of the big boys and you can whine all day, they won't listen. When you're blocked, you're blocked.

I don't know about you, but this is not the kind of casinos I would encourage or endorse. There are better ones out there, so do seek other offers if possible.

Have used many times both for roulette and sportsbook. No problems at all and quick to payout..

Everything goes fine, until you start winning (even by good luck).

[Entropy]

Steve - Higher limit tables not so high?  2 - 100 limits on 1: 1 bets not good. Thats only a 50 : 1 ratio. Compare Smart Live air wheel at 1 - 500 = 500 : 1. Live dealer 10 - 1,000 = 100:1 and linked GURU play (same dealers) 10 - 1500 = 150 :1. Higher stake players are not catered for?

Graphics are good. Playtech processing good. View of wheel is constantly in view during spin, good.  Latvian "baby doll" acting dealers are pretty lame and sometimes speak too softly to hear the ball drop number. It does display the drop though, so no big deal.

Auto log out activates if you don't bet for a while, waiting for a trigger or similar. Maybe a bet or 2 
in the intervals & then cancel would solve that part?

Condition free bonuses are good, I got 2 this week 4 & 5 quid. Did some testing on code 4. Stake was too small so eventually lost but WH money not mine. I stopped playing there because of the poor bet ratios last year. My WH account is still valid though.
Frequent player rewards would be good without high playthrough conditions. Say just playthrough your valid reward amount and if you win then you may withdraw it if you wish?

Casino rewards.com has something like this, Yukon Gold etc. Once you get 1,000 points up you can convert it to nil conditions play credit, 10 bucks per 1,000 I think?  This joint is RNG & I haven't played it for nearly 2 years

The WH spin cycles are close to 1 minute each. Good if you like fast play. Not good if you need time to get lots of bets down.

Chip betting control could be better in so far as options go. Smart Live layout leaves WH for dead.
eg at SL the bet button increases your bet by your base amount each time you click the bet button. WH doesn't. SL has delete last bet Wh doesn't. If you make a mistake at WH you have to clear and start again. Rather tough with multiple bets and a narrow time window.

What would be good for array bets and alternating bet stategies are easy to use storage registers that retains all the base bets. Say between 5 - 10 registers. With a decent array bet panel to "edit" the bets. IE.. Increase some more than others as needed?

Casinos need to cater for the more the knowledgeable player these days. Many players won't continue to throw their money away if they don't at least have a fighting chance to win. I For one  won't.

I think it would be worthwhile for William Hill to run a survey across all 3 forums Steve. From the information they receive they may reformat their roulette betting to much higher game limits. Probably just more on screen layouts?

Innovation - How about a no zero airball wheel rivalling or exceeding bet voyager? How about a no zero live dealer wheel, now that would be a 1st? They can run low & high limits off any of these tables just like they already do.

WH could reward participants with a reasonable low condition bonus. As an extra carrot have some really decent top 10 prizes for the best suggestions as decided by senior WH management.
How about 10,000GBP for 1st place in casino credits. That would be a good challenge to playthrough. Then the prizes could step down to 500 GBP for 10th place & 50 GBP for each valid contributor. Critics & frivilous remarks would be invalid.

Suggest you join up Steve and spend a modest stake to see the WH set up.

Branson did it with Virgin, why not WH with roulette?

That's all nice, but do have experience getting lucky or making some real money with them?

All those nice games and conditions and marketing don't matter anymore when you have a casino staff with a reputation of being paranoid and mathematically illiterate who will block you from playing when they slightly suspect you have a winning system. I'm not the only one this happened to with William Hill. Avoid if you want a "normal" casino experience.

[ausguy]

Entropy - Do tell about  casinos or a casino that you find ok?

As I said I only played with a bit of WH nil condition bonus money so nothing lost of mine. It's good to get feed back on the traps of casinos, WH revelations are a warning and points taken on board.

Also there's a big discussion on the CC Forum about WH. Under the title of "Do you ever feel like the casino cheats"?  They're all fresh so find many of them down the bottom of the cover page in the Latest posts section. My views have gone negative on WH after reading some of those posts on CC. I didn't read them until after I'd posted above.

This shows one of the true values of a forum.

[Steve]

Thanks guys. I only needed one legitimate report of payout refusal. There is no way I'll be running their ads regardless of fee.

[shaineicus]

@Entropy,

I did win bud, even had a dutch book with their bonuses and they still paid out.

Some overzealous employee may ban someone and there are definately better casinos out there,
but there are also a lot worse.

William hill is a huge concern of high street bookmakers, not just an offshore knock up online casino. To not pay out on a few grand and ban a few people isnt a drop on what they take on the high street and is not worth their license to rip off the punters for peanuts.

so its not 32red or skybet... but its not the bottom of the pile either.

cheers..

[Steve]

It is not uncommon for casinos to refuse payouts. I've just never heard of a casino in certain jurisdictions do it. Its always ones like in costa rica.

[Bayes]

FWIW, William Hill are no longer on the Casinomeister list of accredited casinos, likewise for Betfair casino, which now has "rogue" status. 

[Entropy]

Entropy - Do tell about  casinos or a casino that you find ok?

Unibet is one of the biggest and best ones.

Some other currently good/safe ones I know: Bet365, BetFred, Betsson, and PaddyPowerCasino.
Others that seem good but I'm not as sure about them as the above ones: Ladbrokes, Roulette69, Roxy Palace, Victor Chandler.

William Hill do pay out, but they have an ongoing history of mistreating players (blocking you from games, ignoring emails, etc). Hence them not being in the CasinoMeister accredited list.
Betfair had problems and so did SmartLive as of late (payout-related), so I would avoid both for now.

[Entropy]

Needless to say, I would avoid RNG games no matter what they say. It doesn't matter what RNG licenses and control they claim to have, in the end they're all corporations after money, so you NEVER really know.

All casinos I mentioned have live games.

[Steve]

I told them what was being claimed, and their response is:

This is very disappointing. We have hundreds of thousands of members, so to find a few unhappy members over the last decade is no big surprise. In fact, you would be hard pushed to find any business of our size (UK top 100 company, more stores than McDonalds) without criticism. I would like to inform you that if all is legal and requirements are met, we do pay out and would not be a company of this size if we did not. Best of luck in your endeavors.

It would not be uncommon for an online casino to refuse payout. But one genuine report of it is enough for me to not promote the casino for any fee. It would be clear to them that the average person doesnt have the time or resources to take them to court for a payout, especially when the casino has full control over all the "evidence".

Thing is about what they said is almost every player is a consistent loser. This is normal. But what happens when someone gets lucky?

[Bayes]

Needless to say, I would avoid RNG games no matter what they say. It doesn't matter what RNG licenses and control they claim to have, in the end they're all corporations after money, so you NEVER really know.

All casinos I mentioned have live games.

In general I agree that it's best to avoid RNG. But there is one notable exception: Betvoyager.  This casino has "randomness control" and to my knowledge no other RNG based OC uses it. This guarantees that the outcomes are generated BEFORE you place a bet (and you can check this for yourself using the hash function), which means there is no way for them to generate an outcome which will make you lose. This gives you a cast-iron assurance that the game isn't rigged, even more so than a live game. A live game can can still be rigged, whether by magnets, messing with the video etc, - there is always the possibility of cheating if there is no guarantee that the outcome was generated (and not subsequently changed) before you place your bet, that goes for all B&M casinos too. People think that a live game (whether B&M or online) is safer than an RNG because "seeing is believing", but appearances can be deceptive. Randomness control gives peace of mind for the paranoid player. 

[Entropy]

Live game feed providers provide the same feed to tons of casinos, each casino has different players placing different bets. If the feed provider is going to cheat who is it going to favor? How is it going to do it? Magnets? I've known a skilled visual player once (you know those wheel starers?) and he never noticed anything unusual in that regard. I don't think it's quite comparable to the RNG's.

What's funny is that, in the case of casinos like William Hill, it's actually the casino supervisors (pitbosses) that don't trust their live feeds. This is probably because they know it's the real thing and it's not something they have control over and so they're always worried that someday some system player or some physics player is going to come and take loads of money from them (possibly causing the supervisor to lose his job). They are simply that stupid. I mean these are people that don't trust the indisputable mathematical model of the game, let alone some live feed they don't own or control. Keep in mind that they are not only hired to make sure the games run appropriately but also to make sure the casino keeps making money and to enforce a kind of "stop loss" in case some player is winning too much. That is normal for casinos, their highest priority is to make the most out of their edge and nothing less. But you would think these guys would at least pick people who know math and roulette physics, not a superstitious idiot. It's amazing how many clueless people you can find among casino staff.

For some reason however, they seem to trust the RNG games and never bother you when it comes to that. That was interesting.

I'm not familiar with said Betvoyager system, I might look into it out of curiosity. I don't agree about paranoia with regards to online casino RNG's being "paranoia", more like healthy commonsense. One has to be truly naive to have so much "blind" trust so to speak in a casino. When money is involved, people can be quite creative.

[Entropy]

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