If the casinos wanted to cheat...

[toey]

Would it be possible for casinos to cheat at roulette? Maybe have a magnet underneath the wheel, or some other device which would allow them to control where the ball landed?

Please don't tell me that the casino doesn't need to cheat because of the inherent house edge and the way the odds are structured, I know all that. The only reason I'm raising this is because I've seen too many things which just seem too coincidental. For example, I saw a guy place $25 chips all over the table today, with only four numbers uncovered, one of which was a '2', which - you guessed it - came up.

Another time, I saw that everyone had placed stacks of chips all over the table, and it looked like a miniature city model or something, and only ONE number was not betted on by anyone. Yep, that number came up, and the dealer swept the swarm of chips off the table.

[Jakkalsdraai]

  Yeah mate,

I've also seen the funniest things happen to that little ball and also queried the wheels locally. Then one day while I was playing airball roulette (a wheel that i really thought there just had to be magnets in) the ball got stuck under the wheel when it loaded. Casino staff immediately stepped up opened the plastic dome and proceeded to remove the wheel itself all in plain view. There right in front of me, and believed me i studied it as hard as I could, the staff member then tightened down the little ramp where the ball goes down and refitted the removed wheel. Man I was dumb struct to see how simple it really was. Anyway, my mentallity changed right there and then. Funny when u remove theories from your mind of casinos being crooked how one seems to play better as well.

Cheers
Jakk

[pins]

i have seen the number with the most chips on it come up. the casino staff would have to know the wheel was crooked. the casino would have to trust a lot of people.

[Spike]

Casinos don't need to cheat, so they don't. Maybe some crappy joint in the boondocks might, but its more effort than its worth.

[JHM]

Indeed they don't have to. The house edge on french roulette is 2.7%. But I read somewhere the profit is 15%. Because people keep playing, even when they're up.

[Boo_Ray]

Would you still call it cheating if the casino knew their wheels had a slight tilt and employed very exprienced croupiers.

Players would also discover tilt.. not all but some would... Experienced croupiers can make diference but also people who use croupiers in their advantage would notice that.. And people who play on luck would be uneffected so, no gain to casinos I guess

[TwoCatSam]

Suppose you took a wheel and slanted it to a point where the ball just would drop from the race.  Any more slant and the ball would remain in the race due to gravity.

What would you see over 1,000,000 spins?   How would it be different from a perfectly level wheel?

Comments from everyone appreciated!

Sam

P.S.  I really don't know!  (Does anyone?)  This is one of those things that put me to sleep nights.

[Rudy]

Would you still call it cheating if the casino knew their wheels had a slight tilt and employed very exprienced croupiers.

I don't see how a wheel merely being biased would benefit the casino. On the contrary, it would benefit players who were looking for bias.

nolinks://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Jagger

People who follow trends would also benefit from a biased wheel.

For the casino to benefit, the wheel has to be controllable.

[TwoCatSam]

Thinkers.....

What if we tilted the wheel just a hair?  Let's say one side was the thickness of a chip higher than the other side.  Enough so you could actually put a level on it and see it was half a bubble off....

What would be the difference in this wheel and a perfectly level one?  What would you see that would cause you to bet this way or that way?

Sam

[Kelly]

If one was looking for biased numbers or sectors, the tilt would only have  minor attention, it would be noted though, because it could come in handy during the actual execution of the play if there were any bias.

The tilt only has a meaning for VB players.

Imagine you are able to recognize the ball revoloution where the ball only has 9 seconds running time left. Lets say in this case  it resembles 5 ball revoloutions.

Imagine you know that the wheel is turning with 3 secs pr revoloution.

Imagine the ball bounces 6 out of 10 times approx. 15 pockets after it hits the diamond into a 5 number sector.

Imagine the wheel is tilted so it always drops at the 12 o clock diamond.

So when the ball enters the 5th last ball revoloution you read the number below the ball when the ball passes the 12 o clock diamond, lets say zero passes at this moment,   you know that the ball will travel 9 seconds and you know the wheel turns with 3 sec. pr. rev. so you also know that the wheel will turn 3 full revoloutions until the ball drops, so you als know that the number you just read there, zero, will be directly under the ball again when the ball strikes the diamond. You know that the scatter is approxm. 15 pockets which means that you will place your bet on either  30 or 33, depending on wheel direction, as center number in a 5 number arc.

If the wheel was level, the ball might strike somewhere else on the wheel rather than at 12 o clock and you will have no idea on where the ball will strike or land.

If one is looking for a dealers signature, it will also influence if the dealer is a little bit consistent when he spins the ball and wheel.

[TwoCatSam]

Kelly

Thank you for that detailed answer.  I have read it many times.

All.........

Has anyone ever deliberately tilted a wheel and experimented with it?

Sam

[Mr J]

The things is, we remember the "odd situations". We rarely remember the opposite but it does exist of course. I have seen many times some player put $75 or $100 on a single number, no other bets on the table and....it hits. We dont remember those stories too often. Ken

[MATTJONO]

If one is looking for a dealers signature, it will also influence if the dealer is a little bit consistent when he spins the ball and wheel.


i will take a look at the dealers on the t.v channels mainly supercasino and i will try and look each night at a particular dealer.36 spins.

basickly see if they have a consistant spin e.g speed of wheel when she spins and speed of the ball and also not done how many pockets away it was from the last number,


thanks matt jono

[Alfolof]

My definition of a tilted wheel include 2 factors in order to make the wheel bias

1. the part of the wheel that spin around need to be more heavy in one section. (this is also the case in reality even if in microcosmos)

2. the part of the wheel that spin around must be at an angle to the gravity. (this is also the case even if in microcosmos).

If these two factors are facts the ball will land (more than it should on a nonbiaswheel) in the heavy part of the wheel because the heavy part will "land" closest the ground.

[VLSroulette]

Interesting observations Alfo,

I wonder how large the spin sample for these "micro-tilts" to show!

Regards.

[VLSroulette]

-