The Gizmotron Black Box Validator - A sneak peek

[cheese]

You should not bother with this feature, because if user enter a whole sequence, your software could analyze it and curve fit results. With console you enter number to standard input, and immediately you see a decision on standard output, so no potential cheating is possible. To make your tool credible, you should rather avoid this possibility.

Rather than comma delimited sequence I would recommend one number per line, there are a lot of spins in this format. You might also just use white space as a delimiter, then any space, tab or newline would be delimiter.

Dude, you are hot! Another programmer to go up against Gizmo and his baloneyfest. 'Curve fit results' indeed. This is very easy to do and is the downfall of most system innovaters. Even me. I have to be very strict in my testing to avoid curve fitting, its a minefield, to say the least. And its hurts nobody but yourself..

[mr.ore]

Well, I have made a simple bot to test gizmo's box. I have found very nice scripting environment: nolinks://sikuli.org/
It allows mixing python code with image recognition for GUI automation. It would be actually very nice for making casino bots, everything is already there, just watch that demo. Combination of easy IDE with powerful python programming language makes it very useful tool. Also works in Mac and most importantly in Linux, so it is obvious choice for me.

So I have automated inserting spins into gizmo's box. While it is still slow, I can run it overnight. The application could be hacked with windows functions to put data there directly and quickly, but I do not want to crosscompile windows application just for that, too much hassle and coding not worth it.

Not much spins have been tested, I will try to improve speed somehow, but tomorrow we might see some good graphs and other info on his method.

I add image of my application and first short results, they mean nothing though, only few spins.

[cheese]

I will try to improve speed somehow, but tomorrow we might see some good graphs

Uh oh...  Keep tuned to this channel...

[mr.ore]

I am going to play Dungeons&Dragons right now, so I will run some spins while I am not at computer. Now we schall see if it can catch streaks  , or fails horribly .

[gizmotron]

You should not bother with this feature, because if user enter a whole sequence, your software could analyze it and curve fit results. With console you enter number to standard input, and immediately you see a decision on standard output, so no potential cheating is possible. To make your tool credible, you should rather avoid this possibility.

You are right of course. I was just thinking that honest individuals might like quick and easy tests. It never occurred to me to open that door to curve fitting the process. I do like your bot solution though. That worked. I might try to add using a lock screen function for after the spin button click and the resulting displayed results where it would unlock the screen. That might or might not speed up your auto-bot a little. Thanks for running these tests.

[gizmotron]

I am going to play Dungeons&Dragons right now, so I will run some spins while I am not at computer. Now we schall see if it can catch streaks  , or fails horribly .

It should capture everything that randomness delivers. There must be the three states. Each session should produce some or all of these conditions. That is what you should eventually discover. There is no strategic method in it yet to avoid losing. And it keeps going, at least playing minimum sized bets. What I'm wondering is, does it grind away when bad conditions exist. Like those 6 sessions that all lost all bunched together like that. Those sequences could have been played until a huge loss was discovered in each session for instance. They might not be real spins that occurred at some time and where published at some casinos on-line resource. They could have been entered intentionally to lose. They could be completely legitimate too.  I'd like to see those spins, where they originated from. (I looked back at them. They are from an American casino, no on-line gambling there. They must be personally recorded spins.)

Six losing sessions all in a row. That's clear cut evidence of the global effect. If I can see it then I can defend against it with a strategy.

[VKM]

Gizmo,

A little info on the 6 sessions of spins.

I don't record numbers very often but I had kept those.  They were recorded at the same casino, same wheel, but at different times over a period of several months.  There were no gaps in the individual session number streams.  The sessions are shown in the correct order that they were recorded.



VKM

[gizmotron]

I don't record numbers very often but I had kept those.  They were recorded at the same casino, same wheel, but at different times over a period of several months.  There were no gaps in the individual session number streams.  The sessions are shown in the correct order that they were recorded.

They are great. It might have taken me weeks to find this losing streak. I can use it to create a transitional shift option that attempts to reverse against the trend. I do have a wLwL list but I only look back a few spins. Like I've said. I need to add a loss avoidance level to it. I built one a few years ago to avoid the swarms of zeros on the American wheels. So far things actually look pretty good. This will be a more difficult week with it. Maybe this will take three weeks after all.

[gizmotron]

So I added a repeat function from a comma delimited list, just for my testing:

VKM, here are the win / loss totals for each spin. Also a list of the "wL's" for each session.

Yours: (-260) (-140) (-300) (-100) (-200) (-130)

Mine:  (-210) (-130) (+220) (-120) (-130) (-110)

my repeat function might have not placed the very last bet. So the last spin might not have been counted. That would explain the discrepancy between these results. But all the steps are accurate.

Session 1
21,24,2,31,17,18,12,19,12,12,35,26,13,11,32,23,4,25,7,2,23,27,24,30,9,16,17,36,34,24,29,3,33,
3,10,21,27,2,21,30,28,8,11,9,3,19,10,33,4,18,20,11,3,11,11,17,5,31,21,2,22,32,21,15,00,20,31,
0,5,25,8,0,36,36,25,23,30,3,15,19,34,9,17,17,29,2,20,23,26,1,31,36,23,19,0,6,23,24,21,24,36,
25,13,29,35,24,10,1,35,30,9,00,24,7,0,35,00,12,0,34,18,31,26,30,10,36,

0, -10, 0, 10, 20, 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 20, 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 20, 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 50, 60,
40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 90, 100, 110, 90, 100, 80, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 80, 60, 50, 30,
10, -10, 0, -20, -10, 0, -20, -10, -30, -20, -40, -30, -50, -70, -60, -50, -40, -60, -80, -100, -120,
-110, -100, -120, -110, -100, -90, -110, -130, -120, -140, -130, -120, -140, -160, -150, -140,
-130, -120, -110, -130, -150, -140, -130, -120, -140, -130, -120, -140, -160, -180, -200, -190,
-210, -200, -220, -210, -220, -210, -200, -210, -220, -210,

LnolinksLnolinkswLLnolinkswLLnolinksnolinkswLwLnolinksnolinkswLwwLwLLnolinkswLLLLLLwLwwLwLwLwLL
nolinksLLLLwwLnolinksLLwLwwLLnolinkswwLLnolinksLwwLLLLwLwLwLwwLLwL

Session 2
25,2,3,25,13,11,12,17,23,20,25,6,21,19,8,18,5,21,22,31,15,19,00,12,23,00,15,30,29,15,33,30,
0,29,25,11,29,6,25,15,28,17,16,26,23,24,2,6,28,17,28,3,13,2,0,27

0, 10, 20, 0, -10, 0, 10, 20, 0, 10, 20, 0, -20, -10, -30, -20, -10, 0, 10, 20, 30, -70, -60, -80, -100,
-90, -110, -100, -120, -110, -120, -130, -140, -130, -120, -140, -160, -150, -140, -160, -150, -140,
-130,

wwLLnolinksLwwLLwLnolinksnolinksLwLLwLwLwLLLwwLLwwLnolinksL


Session 3
6,9,29,18,18,9,10,16,33,15,25,13,16,32,21,9,25,8,3,00,33,22,13,35,22,23,5,23,30,8,27,34,5,
16,00,5,17,9,5,27,7,30,33,0,28,36,24,28,36,16,4,1,33,19,1,7,24,36,27,36,31,33,25,2,

0, 10, -10, 0, -20, -10, -30, -20, -40, -30, -50, -40, -60, -50, -70, -60, -50, -40, -60, -80, -100,
-120, -110, -130, -120, -140, -130, -150, -170, -160, -150, -170, -190, -210, -200, -220, -240,
-230, -220, -210, -200, -190, -180, -130, -80, -30, 20, 70, 120, 170, 220,

wLwLwLwLwLwLwLnolinksLLLLwLwLwLLwwLLLwLLnolinksnolinksnolinksnolinksnolinks


Session 4
1,3,36,24,29,26,13,28,4,32,35,25,24,31,16,21,14,14,26,10,25,30,5,1,22,12,17,15,25,11,18,31,
00,15,23,24,31,4,34,25,32,7,1,00,13,28,28,19,00,17,36,2,16,9,3,18,28,32,00,17,13,8,8,00,30,
29,7,31,23,33,27,12,16,32,17,1,31,00,34,14,21,20,31,20,18,19,0,19,1,16,14,

0, -100, -90, -80, -100, -90, -80, -70, -90, -110, -100, -90, -80, -70, -90, -80, -70, -60, -80, -70,
-60, -80, -70, -80, -90, -110, -100, -90, -80, -70, -60, -80, -100, -90, -80, -70, -60, -80, -70, -90,
-80, -70, -60, -80, -70, -90, -80, -100, -90, -110, -100, -90, -110, -100, -90, -80, -70, -60, -50,
-70, -60, -70, -60, -80, -70, -60, -80, -70, -90, -110, -100, -90, -80, -100, -90, -110, -100, -120,

LwwLnolinksLLnolinkswLnolinksLwwLwLLLnolinkswwLLnolinkswLwLnolinksLwLwLwLwwLnolinksnolinksLwLwL
wwLwLLnolinksLwLwLw

Session 5
24,31,15,13,36,9,14,00,25,36,36,27,15,7,00,14,35,29,00,6,17,8,34,28,28,11,33,10,16,22,15,6,
19,36,2,33,27,18,14,6,8,2,20,19,24,23,9,1,27,9,5,7,26,33,32,31,21,12,27,19,10,22,5,13,22,27,
2,21,6,7,20,26,

0, 10, 20, 0, -20, -10, 0, -20, -10, -30, -20, -10, -30, -20, -40, -30, -20, -10, -30, -50, -70, -60,
-50, -70, -90, -110, -100, -120, -110, -130, -120, -110, -130, -120, -110, -100, -90, -110, -130,
-120, -110, -130, -140, -130, -120, -140, -130, -120, -110, -130, -120, -110, -130, -120, -110,
-130, -120, -110, -130,

wwLLwwLwLwwLwLnolinksLLLwwLLLwLwLwwLnolinkswLLwwLLwwLnolinksLwwLwwLwwLL


Session 6
3,24,2,5,20,34,15,34,00,30,7,33,19,20,10,9,29,30,6,29,2,26,1,18,0,22,27,19,26,31,34,18,2,8,32,
19,25,12,33,15,20,33,17,32,29,1,16,29,2,29,20,18,34,19,24,00,21,21,28,29,18,24,21,24,16,34,
00,24,13,29,25,23,28,29,35,32,33,0,22,1,9,24,7,3,21,21,21,17,3,6,28,35,5,32,32,29,7,1,8,14,29,
18,3,17,18,26,15,30,16,4,3,35,

0, 10, 20, 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 20, 0, 10, 20, 0, -20, -40, -30, -20, -10, 0, 10, 20, -80, -100, -90, -80,
-70, -60, -80, -70, -60, -80, -70, -90, -110, -130, -140, -130, -120, -110, -100, -120, -110, -100, -90,
-110, -100, -90, -80, -70, -60, -50, 0, 50, 100, 150, 50, 60, 70, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 10, -10,
0, -20, -30, -50, -40, -30, -50, -40, -30, -50, -40, -30, -50, -70, -90, -80, -70, -60, -50, -40, -30, 20, 70,
-30, -50, -70, -90, -100, -90, -80, -100, -120, -110,

wwLnolinkswLLwwLLLnolinksnolinksLLnolinkswLwwLwLLLLnolinkswLnolinksLnolinksnolinksnolinkswLwwLnolinksnolinks
LLwLLLwwLwwLwwLLLnolinksnolinkswwLLLLLwwLLwL

[mr.ore]

So there is a graph of 1024 spins from Wiesbaden. Upward spikes are almost always only two spins long, after a lower bet a higher bet is made. If after such a win system bet lower bet size unit, I think it could have won over those spins. Money management is not well adapted to this bet selection, at least  in this case. To make it a winner,  maybe waiting for virtual loss of some size and then betting would have helped in those spins. I must stress that 1024 spins means absolutely nothing, it is not enough spins to see wheter a method is good or bad. If I could I would run it over 100000 placed bets, and if it won, I would test it for 1000000 placed bets to test wheter it is semi-holy grail. Gizmo, with a good progression your method might be quite good - you already use positive progression, so just make it better.

I might try to add using a lock screen function for after the spin button click and the resulting displayed results where it would unlock the screen.

Rather than that, be more cooperative. There are tools which can change window class settings of a particular application, so it would only annoy potential hacker(or give him a fun overcaming another obstacle). There would not be a lot of persons who would want to run a bot over your blackbox just to find your method's weaknesses, lol. It is already too slow, only 1000 spins over quite a long period of time, not good for testing. I have seen random over millions of spins, so I think I understand a little about what it can do. I cannot run your blackbox over millions of spins, it is not worth my time, so I probably won't do it, only if I were REALLY bored and found a way how to do that quickly.

[VKM]

So I added a repeat function from a comma delimited list, just for my testing:

VKM, here are the win / loss totals for each spin. Also a list of the "wL's" for each session.

Yours: (-260) (-140) (-300) (-100) (-200) (-130)

Mine:  (-210) (-130) (+220) (-120) (-130) (-110)

my repeat function might have not placed the very last bet. So the last spin might not have been counted. That would explain the discrepancy between these results. But all the steps are accurate.

Gizmo,

I'll run these session spins again later this evening to double check whether I goofed up.  I'll post the results tonight.

VKM


 

[gizmotron]

I'll run these session spins again later this evening to double check whether I goofed up.  I'll post the results tonight.

Don't waste your time. You might want to look at that third session though.  I'm more interested in those wL's lists. I can do something with those. I will do something with those.

[gizmotron]

Rather than that, be more cooperative.

Could you send me those same 1024 spins. I'll format them for you if they aren't comma delimited.

I'll run them through my repeater. It will run them in under ten seconds.

Thanks

[mr.ore]

Here you go. Those spins are already on another forum, maybe even somewhere there, I am not sure. They should be live spins from Wiesbaden connected into one large continous file of spins.

[mr.ore]

 tr -s '\r\n' ',' < AllWSpinsRet.txt | sed -e 's/,$/\n/'  > AllWSpinsRetComma.txt

[mr.ore]

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