Separating fact from fiction

[col1879]

Reading through posts on the forum there seems to be a certain amount of ambiguity over whether roulette is really a game for suckers or whether it is a plausible method of generating a supplemental income for joe bloggs. By supplemental I don't mean a holy grail that makes one a millionaire, rather as a means of being able to consistently on a regular basis more often than not produce more profits than losses.

When discussing a system or strategy some people say that all systems end up losing and that no-one can beat roulette in the long run so thus, anyone who is playing roulette is ultimately wasting their time. On the other hand, some users say that they do make money from playing a system or a certain way and that the only reason you are not generating a profit is because 'you are not thinking in the right way'

Vague answers that beat around the bush or don't give definitive outcomes generally make me irate. If someone says they make money and small consistent profits through playing roulette regularly and that they don't want to share their way of playing then fair enough. However it is the ones who say "I make lots of money, but I'm not telling you" that really annoy me.

If you have a decent way of playing then great, share it or don't. If you have the holy grail but don't want to share it then don't post anything. But the point I want to get to is this.

I am not a lazy person who wants all the answers given to me on a plate. I do spend a lot of time practising roulette in 'play mode' (about 5 hours a day), I do try to develop and improve my strategies and way of thinking constantly. I do read over a lot of the old posts on the forum and take in as much information as I can.

The problem is it is all too overwhelming. There are a lot of good systems and strategies. A lot of bad ones. By the time you have separated all the good ones from the bad ones you are still left with about 10,000,000 possible ways of playing. My head cannot take it all. I am going loopy. So the question is this:

Is it worth playing roulettte in the long run and if you practise/learn/read enough about it can you ultimately get to the point where you make more profit on average than losses on a regular basis?

And if the answer is yes, if you were to recommend one way of playing, what would it be? By one way I mean a particular posters or gurus way of playing, not progression or flat bets etc If you choose one, then why that one?

Thanks

[darrynf]

thats a good thread, yes you can win more then you lose.

my system works of repeating numbers and new numbers, the problem with only doing repeating numbers for me was that new numbers would come through alot at times so i decicded i couldnt win that way as it would force you to use a progression that wasnt going to work.

its like covering the whole board except two numbers, the progression wont work.

so i design a method (with a spreadsheet) that utilises patterns, i have two patterns running at the same time, one for repeats and one for new numbers. the pattern dosent perdict what will happen but it will show you an outcome that repeating or new numbers are coming through more then the other one, most of the time its even making a progression possible (i know, never use progressions, you dont have to use it i just prefer as i have never reach a high progression). you need to always use the progression on the lower numbers of betting.

first i spin 30 times and record all numbers, after that i spin again for the pattern, the numbers always change as you have to cross numbers out and put new numbers in, always a 30 spin cycle, this i found very hard to explain to people.

[ReDsQuaD]

Reading through posts on the forum there seems to be a certain amount of ambiguity over whether roulette is really a game for suckers or whether it is a plausible method of generating a supplemental income for joe bloggs. By supplemental I don't mean a holy grail that makes one a millionaire, rather as a means of being able to consistently on a regular basis more often than not produce more profits than losses.

When discussing a system or strategy some people say that all systems end up losing and that no-one can beat roulette in the long run so thus, anyone who is playing roulette is ultimately wasting their time. On the other hand, some users say that they do make money from playing a system or a certain way and that the only reason you are not generating a profit is because 'you are not thinking in the right way'

Vague answers that beat around the bush or don't give definitive outcomes generally make me irate. If someone says they make money and small consistent profits through playing roulette regularly and that they don't want to share their way of playing then fair enough. However it is the ones who say "I make lots of money, but I'm not telling you" that really annoy me.

If you have a decent way of playing then great, share it or don't. If you have the holy grail but don't want to share it then don't post anything. But the point I want to get to is this.

I am not a lazy person who wants all the answers given to me on a plate. I do spend a lot of time practising roulette in 'play mode' (about 5 hours a day), I do try to develop and improve my strategies and way of thinking constantly. I do read over a lot of the old posts on the forum and take in as much information as I can.

The problem is it is all too overwhelming. There are a lot of good systems and strategies. A lot of bad ones. By the time you have separated all the good ones from the bad ones you are still left with about 10,000,000 possible ways of playing. My head cannot take it all. I am going loopy. So the question is this:

Is it worth playing roulettte in the long run and if you practise/learn/read enough about it can you ultimately get to the point where you make more profit on average than losses on a regular basis?

And if the answer is yes, if you were to recommend one way of playing, what would it be? By one way I mean a particular posters or gurus way of playing, not progression or flat bets etc If you choose one, then why that one?

Thanks

Hi!

Its a good topic, I like it.

First thing I will say, I know how it feels to be spending 5 hours a day on the "Play for fun mode" I spent days on end doing the same thing.

The first thing you need to realise, is "Play for fun" is a different programme to the play for "Play for real"

The "Play for fun" Is designed for one thing. It makes you believe you have a winning robust system that will work. Your system will work, then as soon as play it in real money mode, there will be an almighty crash and you will lose all your money.

Never trust RNG (playtech)

STAY AWAY FROM RNG (PLAYTECH)

RNG (Playtech) Actually has avery clever counter strike system that is integrated into the software. Now weather you choose to believe me or not, its your choice.

I learned that inside the software, there is a counter strike that will start to play against you and will finally wipe you out. Basically you could be winning with a system, then finally the software will play against you and counter your move.

I even tried using TWO system at once to try and confuse the software, but this again did not work. The RNG is very clever. (Playtech) can get away with this because its impossible to prove. But I'm telling you, you will never win against the RNG. It will always counter strike your move.


I have had to much experience with (playtech rng) If playtech is rigged, then they are all rigged.

Playtech is respected. The problem is you can never provide hard solid proof, this is the problem and this is why the can get away with it.

I have seen playtech RNG throw at me 23 reds about 4-5 times.

I have known very experienced roulette players to have only have seen this happen once in there life time.

RNG is rigged and that is period.

So always use a real live table. Thats what i do every day. You cannot possibley rig a live table with a live dealer.

If you ever want to win on this game. I would try and concentrate on Dozens and Columns. You have the best odds here.

Martinfale progression ALWAYS leads to disaster. This is because the house edge (zero) will always catch up with you. So NEVER use a progression.

Once understanding the maths of roulette and laws etc. It becomes a lot easier, and you can then look at this game from a different angle.

The average player will never look at roulette the way I do. Most just see it as a table that you place bets on. WRONG! It can be used in a total different way if you have the knowledge.

Always record your results. And the key is virtual betting. Why do people think they are obliged to bet on every spin. I can wait up to 1 hour for my first bet to come in!

You need to find a system where you can put down the table maxim and use NO PROGRESSION.

Now forgive me if any one else has a robust system using anything other than dozens or colum's. But this is what I am doing. And it is working.

So an overview :

Always record your bets
Virtual bet (spin without betting
Understand the maths and odds
Never use a progression.


That's my thoughts anyway, and it has worked for me.

Maybe I am wrong, but I can tell you that's what has worked for me.

I hope I have helped.

Kind regards,
James.

[darrynf]

thats very interesting, my system just loss resently, not sure why, it was doing good and i guess you cant tell if the playtech dose cheat or not but you say seems believeable, can you play on a live table without betting, i think i would have more successe on a live table.

thanks for the advice and i will do this next time, i always record the numbers and patterns, i think i might try and start making a bigger bet when its right, so i only need to bet once, that would be my best chances, if the numbers are right i wouldnt need to use progression.

cheers
darrynf

[harald]

I'm a newbie at roulette but so far I think all online roulette's have a safetysystem.  .  .  .  a bot that stops you if you win to much.   Online roulette works with a 'random' generator to pick numbers and no matter what system I use there's always a time when the bot kicks in and takes my money.   
See this pic how 'random' the numbers are.  .  .  .  . 
hxxp: tinypic.  com/r/11iehs6/7
Before the bottem 2 22's there was also a 22.  .  .  .  so 7 times 22 in 14 spins. 
I've seen the same color fall 20+ times.  .  .  iv'e seen series like 3,15,15,15,3,3,34,34.  .  .  .  and I know you all seen this to.   And what about dozens?.  .  .  .  some say a sure bet to win money.  .  .  .  I waited for my dozen (M) to not come up for 7 times.  .  .  then I started betting on M.  .  .  and this is what happend.  .  .  . 
hxxp: tinypic.  com/r/xtxk4/7
And it's not like iv'e tried it 1 or 2 times.  .  .  .  everytime there comes a time that the bot kicks in and takes your money.   Sometimes you can see a glitch in the casino screen and that's a sign for me to watch out. 
So no matter what system you use in the long run you always lose.  .  .  .  because those roulette's aren't random at all.  .  .  they cheat.  .  .  .  .  and that sounds good to me.  .  .  .  I think there's the door for money making on online roulette. 
I'm still looking for the best way to explore this.  .  .  but it cost money.  .  .  luckely for me I know a way to make some money of slots at some online casino's. 
So.  .  .  .  if u lose in the long run.  .  .  .  why not win in different short runs?

[col1879]

Thanks for the replies. It has always been in the back of my mind while testing in 'play mode' that once stepping in to 'real money' that it could be a different story. I do think that any rng looks for patterns and if you use any pattern then the software will notice it, let you win so much, then hit you with the big loss that wipes out all your profits.

I do keep a note of every bet I place and record every win and loss. I have dozens of A4 pads filled with my handwriting. My house is a bit like that character in the movie Seven, you know Kevin Spacey's character. I don't kill people though. Vanity is my favourite sin.

I am still on the fence about using progression. My head tells me that using flat betting over extended periods of time will result in profits and losses evening out and all that is left is the house edge. My heart tells me using progression will only work for so long before the inevitable big losses catch up.

Columns or EC bets? I like Nathan Detroit's post about choosing a dominant, betting with the 1-2-2 and having a win target of 20% and a stop loss of 25%, I have had good results with testing, although it has been in 'play mode'.

I have also been testing colbster's strategy and it seems promising although it is complicated and I don't know if I am doing it right lol I'll get there though. It uses dozens but treats them like an EC bet.

I agree that the key may lie in virtual betting. Betting on every single spin seems wrong to me. The problem with rng is you have to bet on every spin. You can always cover red/black but that leaves you open to the zero.

So it looks like live spins and b & m casinos is the way to go. The only way to beat online rng, in my opinion, is not to use a pattern. I don't think colbster's strategy uses a pattern. Or does it, is every bet on a dozen which is really an EC bet following a pattern or truly random? I'm confused lol

I'll keep plugging away and doing my testing. The problem with rng is it is rigged. The problem with real spins is it is so slow. Hopefully, in the meantime, someone will post the hg up in the forum and I can just use that! lol

[Nathan Detroit]

 I like Nathan Detroit's post about choosing a dominant, betting with the 1-2-2 and having a win target of 20% and a stop loss of 25%, I have had good results with testing, although it has been in 'play mode'.quote by Collin 1

With this   1-2-2 system not having to play  every spin and without hesitation I would  even challlenge the devils  pipie smoking  grandmother  .

I wish  we  in the USA casinos could  sit out spins as  you can at the B & M casinos  on the continent. Here they allow this  at Baccarat tables and Baccarat is   just like an EC  at roulette.

My  reluctant but always  cautious   advice: If your bankroll can sustain it " GET WITH IT FULL SPEED AHEAD ".

Conclusion: get yourself a  good  system and only play  when the odds  are in your favor.


Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS !!!

[col1879]

************My  reluctant but always  cautious   advice: If your bankroll can sustain it " GET WITH IT FULL SPEED AHEAD "*********

What I like about it is you always know the win target and stop loss and as long as you always pay due diligence then you do not need to worry about getting too greedy or things spiralling out of control and end up betting 500 just to make a profit of 2 lol

A few more days of practising then I may feel confident enough to venture in to real mode and using a small BR of 40. My worry of course is that rng monsters are rigged and will spot the method and start counter plotting! But it's only 40, what the heck, it's worth the risk lol

[darrynf]

maybe you could try live, might be better

[ADulay]

Gentlemen,

  Live casino testing takes time, no matter what game you happen to be playing.

  It's a part of live testing otherwise we'd all be running useless million spin simulations to prove that we're losing at a 5% clip.

  If you need live wheel numbers and/or tests, either track down somebody who has already compiled the information (and hope he isn't fibbing about the live part), track down a place that has live data already recorded (that German place and the Italian casino) or slog it out online with a live wheel for free play money.

  Live data in most casino games is hard to come by which is mainly why we come to places like this, to actually post up your live sessions.

  We do it all the time in the baccarat forums (at least for the guys who actually play) and it works well.

  Backtesting old, live data is not as good as "1st line" live data, but it's close enough for testing work for sure.

  I'm sure there's a specific thread here for live roulette sessions, but I haven't seen anyone post there in months.

  Me?  I've posted literally every baccarat shoe I've played over the last two years in our private forum and occasionally in the public ones.    It shouldn't be any different here I would think.

  AD

[Nathan Detroit]

There  you have it: Plenty of live   numbers from a  casino in Germany:

nolinks://nolinks.westspiel.de/permanenz/Overview.aspx?casino=13


Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!

[ReDsQuaD]

Gentlemen,

  Live casino testing takes time, no matter what game you happen to be playing.

  It's a part of live testing otherwise we'd all be running useless million spin simulations to prove that we're losing at a 5% clip.

  If you need live wheel numbers and/or tests, either track down somebody who has already compiled the information (and hope he isn't fibbing about the live part), track down a place that has live data already recorded (that German place and the Italian casino) or slog it out online with a live wheel for free play money.

  Live data in most casino games is hard to come by which is mainly why we come to places like this, to actually post up your live sessions.

  We do it all the time in the baccarat forums (at least for the guys who actually play) and it works well.

  Backtesting old, live data is not as good as "1st line" live data, but it's close enough for testing work for sure.

  I'm sure there's a specific thread here for live roulette sessions, but I haven't seen anyone post there in months.

  Me?  I've posted literally every baccarat shoe I've played over the last two years in our private forum and occasionally in the public ones.    It shouldn't be any different here I would think.

  AD

Very true.

I couldn't agree more. This is a true way to find out if your system will properly work.
All you have to do is just observe all of the data to see if your system is flawed.

This is the post that people need to read if they are considering in creating a winning method.

Nice one,

James.

[ReDsQuaD]

There  you have it: Plenty of live   numbers from a  casino in Germany:

nolinks://nolinks.westspiel.de/permanenz/Overview.aspx?casino=13


Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!

Nice find! Its interesting to view this data

James.

[geoff365]

nolinks://nolinks.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/index.php?id=82&view=archiv

[Nathan Detroit]

geoff365,

I liked  Wiesbaden until they changed their format a few months  ago. . It was much better in previous years.
So I went on the prowl and someone   suggested  Hohensoyburg in Germany. Looks good  to me.More tables  too.

Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!

[Nathan Detroit]

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