This is one of my ultimate systems that win flat bet, no progression needed.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.zufallsforschung.de%2FBilder%2FVerteilung-RNF_Grafik1.gif&hash=076dd64de8be120ceaa15bdbf27934c67fc76743)
as you see in this picture there is one thing for sure: The Lines have to cross!
to play that is very simple.
You can start at any point, at any casino, at any table.
First the basics:
We know at the first spin there has to appear one number, so we count:
36 not appeared - 1 appeared
35 - 2
34 - 3 etc.
then we might come to this point:
19 - 18
now we bet the 19 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 18 - 19
during the spins we bet when the following combinations appear:
19 - 18
18 - 17
17 - 17
17 - 16
16 - 16
16 - 15
15 - 15
15 - 14
14 - 14
14 - 13
etc.
the difference between appeared and not appeared numbers has to be 0 or 1.
The second bet situation:
we have numbers that appeared once and numbers that appeared more than once:
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared once.
The third situation to bet:
We have numbers that appeared twice and numbers that appeared more than twice.
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice.
if we have to bet 19 or 18, we just bet once
if we have to bet less than 18, then we bet as often as there is a win or 0 possible:
17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice
12 to 10 - we bet three times
9 to 8 - we bet four times
do you get the idea?
br
winkel
one example
0x 1x >1x
19 13 5 bet 19numbers
19 12 6 loss -19
19 11 7
18 12 7
18 12 7
17 13 7
17 13 7
17 13 7
16 14 7
15 15 7 bet 15 numbers
14 16 7 win -15+36-19=+2
14 15 8
14 14 9 bet 14 numbers
14 14 9 loss -14 +2 = -12 and bet again
13 15 9 win -14 +36 -12 = +10
12 16 9
12 15 10
wee willy winkel.....its past 8 o'clock!
Its late.........need more explaining Mate.
Thanks
Rocky
a whole perm
no. 0x 1x >1
18 36 1 0
15 35 2 0
33 34 3 0
36 33 4 0
13 32 5 0
36 32 4 1
8 31 5 1
7 30 6 1
33 30 5 2
24 29 6 2
22 28 7 2
16 27 8 2
2 26 9 2
8 26 8 3
36 26 8 3
1 25 9 3
5 24 10 3
7 24 9 4
11 23 10 4
22 23 9 5
4 22 10 5
13 22 9 6
27 21 10 6
16 21 9 7
30 20 10 7
10 19 11 7 play 19 numbers that not yet appear
29 18 12 7 win -19+36=+17
22 18 12 7
34 17 13 7
15 17 12 8
27 17 11 9
8 17 11 9
9 16 12 9
9 16 11 10 play 11 numbers that came once
5 16 10 11 win -11+36=+25+17=+42
14 15 11 11play 11 numbers that came once
22 15 11 11 loss
14 15 10 12 win -11-11+36=+14+42=+56
7 15 10 12
23 14 11 12
31 13 12 12 play 13 numbers that didn´t appear
25 12 13 12 win -13+36=+23+56=+69
27 12 13 12
17 11 14 12
27 11 14 12
6 10 15 12
33 10 15 12
35 9 16 12
19 8 17 12
28 7 18 12
:)
Many thanks, winkel. I have to study this... very impressed.
Do you track it on paper ? Have you played it live or live online ? Do you think this is IT ?
I will surely try this system, any advice about stoplos or bankrol maybe?
thanks for shareing[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I just don't get it, some help would be appreciated 8)
I dont understeand it jet but I think I have a clue.. Just check second example and you will see what is happening :)
It's coming to me.
I posted a question and found the answer by reading my post.
By the way, winkel, thanks a lot.
Sam
Winkel thanks for the system!
It is very very interesting approach ;)
Have you been using it long??
Regards
Could we study this with just the first way of betting? Let's learn that and then move to two and three.
OK, here's my take on when to bet:
10 19 11 7 play 19 numbers that not yet appear
You add the 11 and 7 to get 18 which is one away from the 19.
Anyone concur?
Sam
This stumps me:
31 13 12 12 play 13 numbers that didnt appear
After the first win, do you cease adding 1x and >1 and just use 1x OR >1 which are both 12 and would make the 12-13 trigger?
Sam
Here's the way I'm seeing it.
a whole perm
no. 0x 1x >1
18 36 1 0
15 35 2 0
33 34 3 0
36 33 4 0
13 32 5 0
At this point we have had no repeaters. We have counted down from 36 to 32 in the 0x column and have counted up to 5 in the 1x column. The >1 column is empty. Then we get our first repeater.
36 32 4 1
We stay at 32 in our 0x column and reduce our 1x column by one. We add one to our >1 column.
8 31 5 1
7 30 6 1
33 30 5 2
Here we get another repeater and the count changes.
24 29 6 2
22 28 7 2
16 27 8 2
2 26 9 2
8 26 8 3
again
36 26 8 3
1 25 9 3
5 24 10 3
7 24 9 4
again
11 23 10 4
22 23 9 5
again
4 22 10 5
13 22 9 6
again
27 21 10 6
16 21 9 7
again
30 20 10 7
10 19 11 7 play 19 numbers that not yet appear
What do we think?
Sam
33 spins +50 units, very very impresive, during a play you can se logical side of that system and I realy like it... Thanks winkel[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Well, explain it to me.....
How does he know to bet on that 12 12 situation?
I understand the first one, not the second.
Sam
give me example
Must i teach you everything, Sam ? :P
Ok, so picking up the winkels words and changing them to suit your question:
(Remember you have 31 13 12 12, meaning 13 numbers didn´t appear)
then we might come to this point:
13 - 12 (see red numbers above)
now we bet the 13 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 12 - 13
during the spins we bet when the following combinations appear:
19 - 18
18 - 17
17 - 17
17 - 16
16 - 16
16 - 15
15 - 15
15 - 14
14 - 14
14 - 13
etc. <<<<<<<< This etc. also means 13 - 13
13 - 12
12 - 12
12 - 11
and another etc.
So, according to the outlined rules, one would bet the 13 numbers that did not appear... clear as muddy water ;) ....
Yeah, i know, i´m surprised with myself too !
31 13 12 12
But that means that we have 2 triggers? but in that case we would bet 25numbers? [smiley=3/explode.gif]
Boo_Ray, that thought has crossed my mind also... Maybe winkel could clarify this part.
maybe that bet has higher priority
maybe bet priority is fading from left to right..
well, we better just wait for winkel [smiley=cheesy.gif]
Wildcard
Yes, please teach me everything. I am but a sponge for knowledge! LOL
See, in my old brain, you must do the same thing every time. In the first example, I assumed you added the 1x and the >1 to get 18. Now I want to do that again. If not, why not?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 05:17:05 PM
Wildcard
Yes, please teach me everything. I am but a sponge for knowledge! LOL
See, in my old brain, you must do the same thing every time. In the first example, I assumed you added the 1x and the >1 to get 18. Now I want to do that again. If not, why not?
Sam
Sam,
You have been testing different systems. Have you already found a system which make good constant profits?
Jur
JHM
Not yet. I am high on the Selecta4 system and a few others.
Since I did so poorly on my money management, I have penalized myself by not betting until October 1st. This is good in two ways: I will have time to examine my mental errors and I will do testing during that time.
I am a firm believer that the key to profits will be found in double-advantage systems. The Selecta4 is one in my view. It never bets on a number unless it has hit once, therefore it seeks repeaters. And it bets on the most active Section.
I am still high on my Chicco/murph system and some others.
I'll post under testing. I'm capturing 200 numbers on my other computer right now for testing today.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 05:26:16 PM
JHM
Not yet. I am high on the Selecta4 system and a few others.
Since I did so poorly on my money management, I have penalized myself by not betting until October 1st. This is good in two ways: I will have time to examine my mental errors and I will do testing during that time.
I am a firm believer that the key to profits will be found in double-advantage systems. The Selecta4 is one in my view. It never bets on a number unless it has hit once, therefore it seeks repeaters. And it bets on the most active Section.
I am still high on my Chicco/murph system and some others.
I'll post under testing. I'm capturing 200 numbers on my other computer right now for testing today.
Sam
Thank you for sharing Sam. Keep me/us posted. A day will come, I'm sure, we'll beat the table and make a good constant profit.
Sam for what it's worth it, you can play dublinbet.com live with fun money. You can keep betting live.
Jur
Sam, from what I can gather, you don´t really need to add...
You are under the (false) impression that you need to sum the 1x and the >1 together. On the 1st example it happens to be true, however, the NOT APPEARED count keeps decreasing as the other two keep increasing, so there will be a point from which one onwards you will never get that sum to be equal or lower to the NOT APPEARED value.
Forget about adding, concentrate on subtracting.
Here you have : (10) 19 11 7
19- (11 + 7) = 1 = betting opportunity ........ Now we are at school :) On this example the sum is fine because 19 numbers that did not appear minus the sum of the numbers that appeared once and those that appeared more than once is one (1).
But then you wish to do the same about (31) 13 12 12 ... In this case, the sum would be worthless.
| |
The idea here is relating 13 and 12...... betting the 13 (numbers) left unhit.
| |
WHY ? Because you have 13 minus 12 = 1 = betting opportunity, as per the rules.
Capice ?
Now, the question here is what to do about the 12 12 since I believe it might be considered a trigger also.
Either that or I am also lost here. HELP winkel
@all
as I mentioned before it the BASIC!!!!!!!!
@TCS
you got the way of counting the numbers.
your question for the second position:
13 12 12
wins and changes to
12 13 12
betting the 13 would be right following the original system.
But I have to make sure you all understand the way the system selects the numbers. After you got that I can explain further hints to play or to play not.
I think it would be best you take some spins of your past games or out of thread of original dublin-spins or take OC-Spins or any other origin.
First hint: Don´t play the 19 or 18 numbers. Play only less than 18 numbers.
br
winkel
QuoteNow, the question here is what to do about the 12 12 since I believe it might be considered a trigger also.
That is a problem that sometimes appears.
It is a law that the numbers that are in the game go straight to Zero (see the diagramm in first post "red line)
So we play the Non-appearers at first.
On the other hand:
If you would have decided to play the 12 once-appearers what would have happened?:
31 13 12 12
25 12 13 12 loss -12
27 12 13 12 loss -12
17 11 14 12 loss -12 and now the difference is "2" so stopp playing and look for another "crossing-situation"
27 11 14 12
This is a build-in stopp-loss
If there is no other crossing in sight, just start collecting new numbers starting with 37 - 0!
Same if we have continued playing the 13 N - 12 F
25 12 13 12 betting 13 once-app.
27 12 13 12 loss -13
17 11 14 12 loss -13 stopp playing because we play 13 only twice!
br
winkel
QuoteBut that means that we have 2 triggers? but in that case we would bet 25numbers?
to booray and wildcard:
just notice:
1. don´t play more than 17 numbers! Otherwise you can´t equalize losses!
2. play the first first
look at the odds: 13 to 24 for the non-appearers and 12 to 25 for once-appearers
Wildcard
Thanks for your help, but I'm not clear on why you bet here:
10 19 11 7 play 19 numbers that not yet appear ..............where do you get the 18? winkel said to bet when it was 19-18.
29 18 12 7 win -19+36=+17
If I can't get past that, there's no need for me to continue.
This is what I'm referring to from his post one:
"then we might come to this point:
19 - 18
now we bet the 19 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 18 - 19
during the spins we bet when the following combinations appear:
19 - 18"
What are the columns 1x and >1 for?
Is this thing basically waiting for 19 numbers not to hit and then betting the rest?
Sam
QuoteDo you track it on paper ? Have you played it live or live online ? Do you think this is IT ?
to wildcard:
if you exercise you will find a way to note it that you can read and play. It´s a thing of experience.
as I say int the topic: This is the Gral
I play it day by day during play my other holy-gral-play that nearly nobody noticed.
The system of counting numbers is the same.
It is always:
R for non-appearers
N for numbers came once
F for numbers that came more than once
br
winkel
QuoteIn the first example, I assumed you added the 1x and the >1 to get 18. Now I want to do that again. If not, why not?
@TCS
this is correct!
At first stage we have two columns:
R and N
R (not appeared)
N (appeared once)
At second stage we have two columns:
N and F
N -> once
F -> more than once
At third stage we have two columns:
F2 -> numbers appeared twice
F>2 -> numbers that appeared more than twice
At fourth stage
F3 numbers appeared 3 times
F>3 number appeared more than 3 times
I hope you see the logic
br
winkel
real play: +41units, potential +68 if I would bet every trigger
oh my gosh... i cant understand at all..
i cant see any logic..
can someone help me explain this system
Quoted from winkel:
At first stage we have two columns:
R and N
R (not appeared)
N (appeared once)
Not once did I see a column headed R or N.
What we did have was:
no. 0x 1x >1
Did I miss something?
Sam
I hate to be the voice of common sense on this thread, but I should probably speak up.
For starters, the random game of roulette is a game of independent trials. This means, regardless of what has hit on the previous spins, no number is any more likely to hit than any other number.
This means the law of the third will not in any way aid you with your bet selection.
Unfortunately, Winkel's system will not perform any better than guessing the numbers at random will perform.
When in doubt, always test before risking real money. Testing can be fun, but losing money sucks.
-Herb
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 10:11:29 PM
Quoted from winkel:
At first stage we have two columns:
R and N
R (not appeared)
N (appeared once)
Not once did I see a column headed R or N.
What we did have was:
no. 0x 1x >1
Did I miss something?
Sam
I´m just bored to write "appeared" so I changed to the names I used in the diagram and in my thread " view at statistics" that´s all.
R = "Rest" not appeared
N = "Normal" appeared once
F = Favorites " appeared more than once
F2 = numbers appeared twice
F3 numbers appeared 3times
F4 = 4 times
etc.
row 0 is R
row 1 is N
row >1 is F
br
winkel
Quote from: starstar on August 20, 2008, 09:59:54 PM
oh my gosh... I cant understand at all..
i cant see any logic..
can someone help me explain this system
it is so simple. When you don´t see any logic you have to read again and test with your own numbers.
One can explain it to you, if you ask questions. When you go do a doc and you say "I´m ill" without any further desription he might give you something for a cold but you got cancer
br
winkel
Quote from: Herb on August 21, 2008, 01:52:21 AM
I hate to be the voice of common sense on this thread, but I should probably speak up.
For starters, the random game of roulette is a game of independent trials. This means, regardless of what has hit on the previous spins, no number is any more likely to hit than any other number.
This means the law of the third will not in any way aid you with your bet selection.
Unfortunately, Winkel's system will not perform any better than guessing the numbers at random will perform.
When in doubt, always test before risking real money. Testing can be fun, but losing money sucks.
-Herb
You are the picture of an idiot
This don´t refer to numbers that have spun before
This is not the law of third - It is the binomial distribution
This is not a system - It´s only a bet selection
It performs well without doubt.
@moderators: If this guy is allowed to disturbe this i will stop right now.
Quote from: Herb on August 21, 2008, 01:52:21 AM
I hate to be the voice of common sense on this thread, but I should probably speak up.
For starters, the random game of roulette is a game of independent trials. This means, regardless of what has hit on the previous spins, no number is any more likely to hit than any other number.
This means the law of the third will not in any way aid you with your bet selection.
Unfortunately, Winkel's system will not perform any better than guessing the numbers at random will perform.
When in doubt, always test before risking real money. Testing can be fun, but losing money sucks.
-Herb
Herb I partly agree with you, but you should check how this method works and it is not about random selection of numbers.. This method
uses events that
will happen for sure, even if next spins are independent (because ball cannot drop into numer 37 and then 38 and 39 and so on, well enough about "common sense").. q: What method does? a: It tells you when to jump into the game.. And timing is very important
And what I realy like is that you don't have to risk alot of money - you dont need 1000unit bankrol, you dont even need 100units..
I think that winkel realy did a great job on this one..
Well herb I know that your post wasn't suposse to be negative, it was just some tipe of warning, but you can't just say that this method woul'd do same as picking random numbers.
Sorry If I said something wrong..
Will do more testing
cya
Fun test @dublinbet 41spins: +43 units, potential +66 if betting every trigger..
QuoteWinkle said
You are the picture of an idiot
This don´t refer to numbers that have spun before
This is not the law of third - It is the binomial distribution
This is not a system - It´s only a bet selection
It performs well without doubt.
@moderators: If this guy is allowed to disturbe this I will stop right now.
Hi Winkle.
Mate no-one wants you to stop.
There are people counting on you to make them better players.
I know that I am one of those.
However seeing this is an open thread & at the moment everyone is entitled to their opinion includeing Herb.
I fail to see where Herb has done or said anything at the moment that We as Moderators could admonish Him for.
I have a suggestion for you.
Why not ask Victor if he will give You Your own section.
Then you can be the Moderator Yourself & You could Delete or remove anything You don't like.
I think that this would be the solution most suited to Your Needs Mate.
Your Friend
Lanky
winkel
Take Herb with a grain of salt. Perhaps he means well. I did a lot of study on your system last night.
Boo_Ray seems to have a handle on it; maybe the rest of us will come aboard.
Sam
Winkel and Boo Ray,
I'm confused. I understand the chart but I'm still not sure how the numbers are selected.
cd ???
winkel or Wildcard or Boo_Ray or anyone who can answer this:
Below is a copy with my words is red:
0x 1x >1x
19 13 5 bet 19numbers......on this you add 13 + 5 for 18 and you have 18-19. That I get 1x + >1x = secondary number.
19 12 6 loss -19
19 11 7
18 12 7
18 12 7
17 13 7
17 13 7
17 13 7
16 14 7
15 15 7 bet 15 numbers.....here if you do as above, 15 + 7 = 22. So you have 15 - 22. How is that a bet on 15 numbers.
This is like climbing a tree: If the first limb breaks and you hit the ground, the second limb doesn't much matter. This math question is the first limb and I'm lying in the dirt. Let's please speak of the first problem and then we'll get to the others.
Sam
Someone think about this:
I say, "Nineteen numbers have not hit in this trot." You ask, "Of the ones who have hit, how many hit twice?"
Suppose I say, 4 or 7 or 10 or whatever.........
In the final analysis, you have 19 unhit numbers regardless of how many doubles hit. Now, if you're counting the doubles, it's different.
You do count them at the first of the trot, and it seems you don't at the second bet.
Why?
We can't sweep this under the rug anymore than we can the 0.
Sam
@tcs
keep it simple
When we start counting with the first spin we have only non-comers and once-comers!
The first Crossing is between numbers that came and that not appear.
Remember I said: don´t play 19 numbers.
we watch always the crossing between numbers
- that appeared (x)-times and numbers that appeared (x+1)-times
- that appeared (x)-times and numbers that appeared (>x)-times
to get most possible bet-selections
imagine you would count 150 spins with this possible result:
R N F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7 F8 F9 F10 F11
1 2 3 6 9 5 4 3 2 1 1
possible crossings:
F5 with F6
F6 with F7
F7 with F8
F8 with F9+F11
R+N+F2 with F3
But we shorten the selection to this crossings:
R with N
N with "all F"
N with F2
and not yet mentioned but visible in the diagram
R with "all F"
br
winkel
Sam, i am at work right now, so i cannot elaborate on my answer, but here´s something to chew on ;)
Examples:
19 13 5 >> bet 19 numbers ...
meaning you bet the 19 numbers that did not appear... this is because the difference from 19 numbers that did not appear against 18 numbers that have already appeared once or more is 1, so this means there´s a betting opportunity... but as winkel said, this is not advisable to bet, therefore you could simply eliminate this step so there´s no confusion on this part... Just focus on subtracting the values from each to adjoining columns... like bellow:
18 12 7 >> Consider the relations between column 1 and 2 OR 2 and 3... always favouring the first.
What we do here is 18-12= 6, so no betting opportunity
OR 12-7 = 5, so no betting opportunity (Keep tracking)
15 15 7 >> bet 15 numbers... why ? Because 15-15= 0, so there´s a chance for betting the 15 non-appearers.
OR you could consider 15-7= 8 ... so 8 means no betting opportunity on the set of numbers that appeared once... rememeber you always make a decision favouring the first result.
So in this case, you would chose to bet considering 15-15=0 or 15-7=8.
As you have a 0 on the first result, you bet the "first" set of 15 numbers, meaning the 15 the 15 non-appearers.
Hope it helps, i really want you to understand this, i mean it... once it "clicks" you will be able to help us further down the road... as usual.
another example
Coup Zahl R N F
1 16 36 1 0
2 11 35 2 0
3 11 35 1 1
4 29 34 2 1
5 16 34 1 2
6 20 33 2 2
7 9 32 3 2
8 4 31 4 2
9 28 30 5 2
10 3 29 6 2
11 5 28 7 2
12 32 27 8 2
13 21 26 9 2
14 19 25 10 2
15 31 24 11 2
16 5 24 10 3
17 21 24 9 4
18 8 23 10 4
19 14 22 11 4
20 23 21 12 4
21 2 20 13 4
22 22 19 14 4 first possible bet but not recommended
23 26 18 15 4
24 34 17 16 4 possible bet
25 26 17 15 5 lost -17
26 3 17 14 6 lost and stopp -34
27 0 16 15 6 possible bet
28 1 15 16 6 hit -14
29 0 15 15 7 possible bet
30 36 14 16 7 hit +7
winkel
Now you have added a new column. In your first post, you have columns 0x 1x and >1. Now look at what you've written:
"we watch always the crossing between numbers
- that appeared (x)-times and numbers that appeared (x+1)-times.....now you have a new column, x+1
- that appeared (x)-times and numbers that appeared (>x)-times
to get most possible bet-selections"
You say to "keep it simple". I am asking very simple, very specific questions.
Each time you post you change the terminology.
Sam
Wildcard
Believe me, I am trying to understand this. I have tried to understand every thing this man has ever written. If you don't understand or you ask too many questions, all he knows to say is "keep it simple". I, TwoCat, am the one trying to keep it simple. Pretty soon he will be saying he'll leave the forum because I ask the wrong questions or Herb asks the wrong questions or makes the wrong assertions.
What's this? We work to understand the 19-18 and then he says, "Oh, forget that. Not a good bet." Then why did we have it to contend with in the first place.
So, in keeping with the original format of 0x, 1x and >1, if we exclude the 19-18 from the betting, why do we need the >1 column?
In the final analysis we are only betting on numbers that have not come. Must they come? Well, sure, sometime.......
I must be missing the big picture.
Sam
I try to explain but i am not realy sure what do you want to know..
lets say there are 0x 1x 2x 3x 4x
2x 3x and 4x all belong to >1
if that is wat you want to know?
no not a new column
lets start again:
a = numbers that didn't appear is to understand or not?
b = numbers that appeared once is to understand, or not?
c = numbers that appeared twice is to understand, or not?
d = numbers that appeared 3 times is to understand, or not?
now we put the math on it:
we have numbers that didn´t appear and that appeared at all.
(a) and (b+c+d)
then we have numbers appeared not and once
(a) and (b)
then we have numbers appeared once and more than once
(b) and (c+d)
then we have numbers appeared once and twice
(b) and (c)
in german it´s called "Mengenlehre"
now my terminology:
non-appearers R or F0
appearers F>0
once-appearers N or F1
more than once-appearers F>1
twice-appearers F2
more than twice appearers F>2
three times appearers F3
more than three times appearers F>3
"
a = numbers that didn't appear is to understand or not?
b = numbers that appeared once is to understand, or not?
c = numbers that appeared twice is to understand, or not?
d = numbers that appeared 3 times is to understand, or not?
"
There are no columns a b c d. There are only columns 0x, 1x and >1.
Sam
QuoteWhat's this? We work to understand the 19-18 and then he says, "Oh, forget that. Not a good bet." Then why did we have it to contend with in the first place.
I said in my first post: Basics to understand whats going on.
On the other hand there would have come up the question for 19-18
I explained, why 19-18 is a possible bet, but it is not recommended because this won´t be a winning crossing!
If we want to play without progression we should only bet when one loss can equalized by on win and leves a win.
-19 -19 +36 leaves us -2
-18 -18 +36 leaves us 0
-17 -17 +36 leaves us +2
so maximum bet should be 17 numbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stopp loss after 2 bets:
-19 -19 next bet-selection -19 +36 leaves us with -21
-18 -18 next bet-selection -18 +36 leaves us with -18
-17 -17 next bet-selection -17 +36 leaves us with -15
3 losses can be equalized by two wins if you play less than 18 numbers
you see the progression towards winning?
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 21, 2008, 11:40:38 AM
"
a = numbers that didn't appear is to understand or not?
b = numbers that appeared once is to understand, or not?
c = numbers that appeared twice is to understand, or not?
d = numbers that appeared 3 times is to understand, or not?
"
There are no columns a b c d. There are only columns 0x, 1x and >1.
Sam
read my whole post it contains the explanation of everything!
sam
a = 0x
b = 1x
c and d = >1
e f g h i j k l m n o p r s, they would all belong to >1,
In our case "c" would be "2x" and "d" would be "3x" and 2 and 3 is all more than 1... Do you agree?
Boo
I understand.
Now, an apple = 0x; an orange = 1x and a banana = >1.
I just removed a post that was not appropriate. The above is the simple question.
Why not use the original symbols?
Sam
boo
if that is wat you want to know?
I want to know if there is a reason to list numbers in any category other than >1? Look at the chart. 36 hits three times. Is 3>1.. I think so. So why obfuscate the issue if we are only concerned with three columns?
If you imagine vertical bar graphs, one being 0x and one being 1x you would see them approaching level as the numbers came. Yes, at some point they will switch positions. I see that.
Perhaps I should leave this alone for a while. I don't want to alienate anyone.
Sam
QuoteI want to know if there is a reason to list numbers in any category other than >1?
simply: Yes
I tried to explain it to you in different ways. Now I´m in the state, that I don´t get your problem.
sorry
winkel
Hi Winkel,
To perhaps assist others to understand this system, it may
be an idea to post a spreadsheet detailing the betting triggers as you use them.
Thanks for an innovative concept! :)
regards,
metalrat
Hey winkel,
I (think ;)) I understand the bet selection and made a few test sessions. I was not very impressed from the results to be honest ;)
There was a balance between winning and losing sessions. But still it was very little testing just to understand and practice this...
I am hopping you can provide some more hints and also any suggestions based from your experience on stop loss, profit target in a session etc
Generally any statistics you can share on this would be much appreciated!
Best Regards!
*edit
Quote from: Bago on August 21, 2008, 12:38:53 PM
Winkel,
Is it you who designed losing systems W3,W9 and sold them? I ask because I saw your name attached to sold systems that of course do not work.
I never ever sold anything. i don#t know these systems. Perhaps the name of Benno winkel is used.
please give a web-address where i can read about.
br
winkel
winkel
Here's a worksheet:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F1125%2Fscan0001kg8.jpg&hash=497ea0e3f123765187cf425c5d8abb582e14a542) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
I will continue on. There are 185 numbers.
Sorry I got frustrated.
Sam
Quote from: Panopticon on August 21, 2008, 12:46:12 PM
Hey winkel,
...... I was not very impressed from the results to be honest ;)
There was a balance between winning and losing sessions.
....
I am hopping you can provide some more hints and also any suggestions based from your experience on stop loss, profit target in a session etc
of course you loose sometimes. but on long term you will win. Not a billion but win.
as I said before. If the basics are understood, there can be explained some other hints.
e.g. window to bet
when to bet not even if there is a trigger etc.
br
winkel
PS: spread-sheet in answer 47
Thanks winkel :)
Of course it is expected to loose, the thing is to manage to win just a bit more ;)
I am looking forward for your hints, because up to now I understand you just give a rough idea of the method in order to help people understand your bet selection.
Best Regards!
winkel question for you
example
[table=,]
0x,1x,>1
16,14,7
15,15,7,<bet
14,16,7,<win
14,15,8,< do we bet again?
13,16,8,<we would win here but on some cases we wouldnt
[/table]
this is my spread-sheet on your numbers. You made a mistake!
QuoteC No R N F
1 8 36 1 0
2 12 35 2 0
3 13 34 3 0
4 18 33 4 0
5 22 32 5 0
6 27 31 6 0
7 2 30 7 0
8 12 30 6 1
9 3 29 7 1
10 1 28 8 1
11 17 27 9 1
12 31 26 10 1
13 30 25 11 1
14 7 24 12 1
15 6 23 13 1
16 11 22 14 1
17 29 21 15 1
18 20 20 16 1
19 36 19 17 1
20 20 19 16 2
21 13 19 15 3
22 19 18 16 3
23 35 17 17 3
24 32 16 18 3
25 3 16 17 4
26 23 15 18 4
27 35 15 17 5
28 15 14 18 5
but it still won on spin 24
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 21, 2008, 01:13:04 PM
winkel question for you
example
[table=,]
0x,1x,>1
16,14,7
15,15,7,<bet
14,16,7,<win
14,15,8,< do we bet again?
13,16,8,<we would win here but on some cases we wouldnt
[/table]
no don#t bet. there is no trigger given
ah I see, actualy 0x has to be higher than 1x to be real trigger
i understeand now, had to look back at your pisture of lines
thanks
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 21, 2008, 01:05:34 PM
winkel
Here's a worksheet:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F1125%2Fscan0001kg8.jpg&hash=497ea0e3f123765187cf425c5d8abb582e14a542) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
I will continue on. There are 185 numbers.
Sorry I got frustrated.
Sam
Friend Sam,
You could also bet on 19 (I know not recommended, but you would have won)
Jur
continued...........
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg383.imageshack.us%2Fimg383%2F5039%2Fscan0001jn4.jpg&hash=1831abe27ce19770fb2a5fba8c3e3c5c07da9692) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
winkel
I am likely to make mistakes. Mr. Chips can attest to that. I'll have a look-see and determine where I went wrong.
Thanks for your help.
As pan said, I,too, am looking forward to your hints/tips.
Sam
jur
yes, I could have.
yes i made amistkae with my nu 36 shuld be 19
tard
bye
test @dublinbet 41spins - 30 min: +26units
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 21, 2008, 02:07:03 PM
test @dublinbet 41spins - 30 min: +26units
Interesting. But, I guess we can only say if it works when played a min. of 1000 spins?
yes but every 50 spins or more, actualy as much as needed to get 2 betting oportunities I would reset
I would like to know what winkel thinks :)
[table]
C No. R N F
1 8 36 1 0
2 12 35 2 0
3 13 34 3 0
4 18 33 4 0
5 22 32 5 0
6 27 31 6 0
7 2 30 7 0
8 12 30 6 1
9 3 29 7 1
10 1 28 8 1
11 17 27 9 1
12 31 26 10 1
13 30 25 11 1
14 7 24 12 1
15 6 23 13 1
16 11 22 14 1
17 29 21 15 1
18 20 20 16 1
19 36 19 17 1
20 20 19 16 2
21 13 19 15 3
22 19 18 16 3
23 35 17 17 3 bet 17 R
24 32 16 18 3 won 19
25 3 16 17 4
26 23 15 18 4
27 35 15 17 5
28 15 14 18 5
29 19 14 17 6
30 7 14 16 7
31 27 14 15 8
32 4 13 16 8
33 30 13 15 9
34 21 12 16 9
35 23 12 15 10
36 6 12 14 11
37 12 12 14 11
38 33 11 15 11
39 14 10 16 11
40 31 10 15 12
41 3 10 15 12
42 33 10 14 13 bet 14 N
43 10 9 15 13 loss -14
44 36 9 14 14 bet 14 N
45 34 8 15 14 loss -14 bet 15 N
46 2 8 14 15 won 21 total 12
47 20 8 14 15
48 29 8 13 16
49 11 8 12 17
50 16 7 13 17
51 5 6 14 17
52 1 6 13 18
53 0 5 14 18
54 1 5 14 18
55 29 5 14 18
56 18 5 13 19
[/table]
@JHM and @booray
as you can see on the numbers of TCS, there are some spins that end up very fast with giving no more triggers.
If we play only on 3 rows R N and F so the game doesn´t give trigger over the point of 50 spins.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1219340369.gif&hash=d6eea70af97811f36539ae47410dd67fe3944b05)
as you can see we only have 3 areas of crossings
If we split F (>1) in F2 and F>2 we get more crossings
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1219340766.gif&hash=c406c2df58edba97dc03bad35ead159995b722c9)
If we keep F (>1) (now light blue line) then we get even more crossings
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1219341166.gif&hash=6c7aae774feffef053437873409c0b3f9fb03204)
Quote from: JHM on August 21, 2008, 02:21:29 PM
Interesting. But, I guess we can only say if it works when played a min. of 1000 spins?
It is already tested over 10 000 000 spins. otherwise I wouldn´t call it the Grail
Since this is an open thread, I will speak up. When a voice of logic and reason doesn't occasionally speak up, bad ideas can gain too much traction.
(Winkel, My intention is not to try and make you look like an idiot. I'm just trying to be helpful. So please, relax. :))
The charts look cool, but they're worthless. By the way, 99% of the people here don't know what they're looking at when they view them, because you don't effectively explain what they are.
The foundation that you are using for your "betting triggers" isn't of value. It's still based on a form of gambler's fallacy.
Just because one number has already hit, doesn't make it more likely to hit again during the next set of spins. Your use of "binomial distribution" isn't improving the bet selection. That's the gambler's fallacy part. The binomial distribution is just an observation. It will not guide the user toward the best bets.
Now, I know you're not going to accept what I say as fact, (even though it is), so when you test this one, be sure to test a statistically significant number of trials before running out to risk real money on this system. (start with 10k trials, it's small, but this one will likely fail before then). Once you test enough trials, you will find this one performs very close to expectation. -2.7
Good Luck.
-Herb
Quote from: Herb on August 21, 2008, 03:55:59 PM
Now, I know you're not going to accept what I say as fact, (even though it is), so when you test this one, be sure to test a statistically significant number of trials before running out to risk real money on this system. (start with 10k trials, it's small, but this one will likely fail before then). Once you test enough trials, you will find this one performs very close to expectation. -2.7
Good Luck.
-Herb
that proofs how blind you are. You didn´t even read the thing. Otherwise you would see that your arguments fail.
PLEASE read the post before your post blind man.
I tested it with over 10 000 000 spins and it gave an result in Plus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now go to to somewhere else: e.g. to San Francisco telling gay people they are wrong.
Let's just say your testing is suspect. lol.
By the way, where's your testing?
Don't just point us to one of your charts. Show us some real testing.
Quote from: Herb on August 21, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
Let's just say your testing is suspect. lol.
No other idea?
sure it is a bad feeling having lost. Found being stupid and writing senseless words disturbing people joining their hobby.
But still you have a chance: test it yourself over that period and give us the results.
winkel,
i like your ideas.
good logic.
will test some and post on here.
i would be grateful if you could review my test. i hope that it will make sense when i do it.
Just some questions winkel to make sure I get it right, from some situations I met during testing:
R N F
15 14 8 Here we bet the 15 numbers that do not appear and we lose and we get something like this....
15 13 9 <-When we bet 15 numbers we are supposed to bet twice, but here the difference is not 0 or 1 anymore. So we do not
bet again and wait for a new trigger right??
Another scenario would be:
R N F
13 12 12 Here we bet the 13 numbers not appearing and let's say we win. So we get this....
12 13 12 Do we carry on immediately with the new trigger of the 13 numbers that appeared once? I suppose so...
And a last one:
R N F F2
11 13 10 3 In situations like this you consider having a trigger, as 13=10+3 with difference being 0 and bet the numbers that
have appeared once? I think this counts as trigger...
Regards
Where can we examine your testing results?
Please be specific.
Thanks!
-Herb
Quote from: Panopticon on August 21, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
Just some questions winkel to make sure I get it right, from some situations I met during testing:
R N F
15 14 8 Here we bet the 15 numbers that do not appear and we lose and we get something like this....
15 13 9 <-When we bet 15 numbers we are supposed to bet twice, but here the difference is not 0 or 1 anymore. So we do not
bet again and wait for a new trigger right??
We only do bet a second time when the trigger consists. Here the difference is now 2, so we stopp.
Another example:
15 15 we bet an loose because it changes to
15 14 this is still a trigger so we bet again
Quote from: Panopticon on August 21, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
Another scenario would be:
R N F
13 12 12 Here we bet the 13 numbers not appearing and let's say we win. So we get this....
12 13 12 Do we carry on immediately with the new trigger of the 13 numbers that appeared once? I suppose so...
that is for sure a difficult situation. I have to describe it later whether to bet in this situation or not. That´s a higher level. We first have to be sure to get the basics.
Quote from: Panopticon on August 21, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
And a last one:
R N F F2
11 13 10 3 In situations like this you consider having a trigger, as 13=10+3 with difference being 0 and bet the numbers that
have appeared once? I think this counts as trigger...
Regards
That´s wrong.
in the amount of F and the amount of F2 are the same numbers! F = F2+F3+F4+F>4!!!!!!!
A trigger is a "higher Group" and all following groups
This Higher Group has not to be a sum! F is a sum (of all >1)
I hope I could explain clearly in my bad English
br
winkel
trial no 0 1 2 3 >3
1 24 36 1 0 0 0
2 9 35 2 0 0 0
3 14 34 3 0 0 0
4 14 34 2 1 0 0
5 33 33 3 1 0 0
6 11 32 4 1 0 0
7 29 31 5 1 0 0
8 5 30 6 1 0 0
9 15 29 7 1 0 0
10 24 29 6 2 0 0
11 17 28 7 2 0 0
12 0 27 8 2 0 0
13 17 27 7 3 0 0
14 7 26 8 3 0 0
15 23 25 9 3 0 0
16 1 24 10 3 0 0
17 31 23 11 3 0 0
18 13 22 12 3 0 0
19 36 21 13 3 0 0
20 17 21 13 2 1 0
21 29 21 12 3 1 0
22 8 20 13 3 1 0
23 30 19 14 3 1 0 19 v 18 no bet
24 10 18 15 3 1 0 since >18 no's
25 5 18 14 4 1 0
26 31 18 13 5 1 0
27 26 17 14 5 1 0
28 16 16 15 5 1 0 Bet 16 v 15 20
29 6 15 16 5 1 0 win 15 v16
30 24 15 16 4 2 0
31 32 14 17 4 2 0
32 29 14 17 3 3 0
33 18 13 18 3 3 0
34 5 13 18 2 4 0
35 16 13 17 3 4 0
36 29 13 17 3 3 1
37 7 13 16 4 3 1
38 34 12 17 4 3 1
39 17 12 17 4 2 2
40 22 11 18 4 2 2
41 21 10 19 4 2 2
42 8 10 18 5 2 2
43 2 9 19 5 2 2
44 22 9 18 6 2 2
45 2 9 17 7 2 2
46 10 9 16 8 2 2
47 19 8 17 8 2 2
48 13 8 16 9 2 2
49 12 7 17 9 2 2
50 24 7 17 9 1 3
51 35 6 18 9 1 3
52 3 5 19 9 1 3
53 25 4 20 9 1 3
54 1 4 19 10 1 3
55 19 4 18 11 1 3
56 5 4 18 11 0 4
57 12 4 17 12 0 4 Bet next 17v 16 -17
58 22 4 17 11 1 4 Bet next 17v16 19
59 6 4 16 12 1 4 win 16 v 17
60 29 4 16 12 1 4
61 1 4 16 11 2 4
62 3 4 15 12 2 4
63 16 4 15 11 3 4
64 26 4 14 12 3 4
65 9 4 13 13 3 4 Bet next 13v 13 23
66 11 4 12 14 3 4 win 12 v 14
67 26 4 12 13 4 4
68 24 4 12 13 4 4
69 0 4 11 14 4 4
70 20 3 12 14 4 4
71 14 3 12 13 5 4
72 25 3 11 14 5 4
73 22 3 11 14 4 5
74 20 3 10 15 4 5
75 22 3 10 15 4 5
76 34 3 9 16 4 5
77 9 3 9 15 5 5
78 29 3 9 15 5 5
79 P&L TOT +45
The question is whether we play the 2 & 3 column when they are low such as on spin 32 & 33? Spin 34 would be a win on those?
Quote from: Herb on August 21, 2008, 04:55:35 PM
Where can we examine your testing results?
Please be specific.
Thanks!
-Herb
I don't have to proof it is working. YOU have to proof that it isn't and you will fail and find a winning strategy.
By the way: in Germany they call me Professor Plein. You can learn roulette from me.
No, I already proved that it won't work.
You claimed that you had proof showing that it tested positive over 10k spins. Where's your data?
I can see where this is going. I'm not going to harrass you for the data because I know you don't have it. ;D
Best of Luck.
-Herb.
Ok with my first two questions. I think I did not place the 3rd question correctly and confused you I meant this:
R N F2 F3
11 13 10 3 So here numbers appearing once are 13 and numbers appearing more than once are 10+3=13. So we get a 0
difference between them. But you say we do not bet here the N right?\
Thanks
Quote from: tucktuckster on August 21, 2008, 05:11:06 PM
32 29 14 17 3 3 0
33 18 13 18 3 3 0
34 5 13 18 2 4 0
35 16 13 17 3 4 0
36 29 13 17 3 3 1 bet 3
37 7 13 16 4 3 1 bet 4
38 34 12 17 4 3 1 bet 4
39 17 12 17 4 2 2 bet 2
40 22 11 18 4 2 2 bet 2
41 21 10 19 4 2 2 bet 2
42 8 10 18 5 2 2 bet 2
43 2 9 19 5 2 2 bet 2
44 22 9 18 6 2 2 bet 2
45 2 9 17 7 2 2 bet 2
46 10 9 16 8 2 2 bet 2
47 19 8 17 8 2 2 bet 2
48 13 8 16 9 2 2 bet 2
49 12 7 17 9 2 2 bet 2
50 24 7 17 9 1 3 bet 2 and win 36 total bet -35 = +1
66 11 4 12 14 3 4
67 26 4 12 13 4 4
68 24 4 12 13 4 4
69 0 4 11 14 4 4
70 20 3 12 14 4 4
71 14 3 12 13 5 4
72 25 3 11 14 5 4
73 22 3 11 14 4 5
74 20 3 10 15 4 5
75 22 3 10 15 4 5
76 34 3 9 16 4 5
77 9 3 9 15 5 5
78 29 3 9 15 5 5
79
The question is whether we play the 2 & 3 column when they are low such as on spin 32 & 33? Spin 34 would be a win on those?
Hi Tuckster,
you really got it in all stages:
look:
32-34: 3 times bet 3 = -9 win +36= +29
36-50: look above as you see that little difference 2 and 2 is not really worth to play especially when the higher Group is so far away. 17 - 3 - 3 better would be e.g. 12 - 9 - 8!!!!!!!!!
67-73: you see same problem as before.
It would be better to start a new selection-count after spin 41, because
0 is only 10
1 is 19
an all F are just 4
this leads to another important hint:
it would need 9 spins with "1"s (N) to go get a crossing between 0 and 1
after 9 R in a row I wouldn´t bet on another 10th R appearing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it would need 7 spins of N to come to get a crossing with F (12N - 11F)
after 7 N in a row I wouldn´t bet on another 8th N appearing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
br
winkel
Winkel, I'm playing like your post in the first page.
Am I doing something wrong, I did some spins @ dublinbet and lost.
This is my play
Play deleted, to pretend confusion
Quote from: Panopticon on August 21, 2008, 05:23:28 PM
Ok with my first two questions. I think I did not place the 3rd question correctly and confused you I meant this:
R N F2 F3
11 13 10 3 So here numbers appearing once are 13 and numbers appearing more than once are 10+3=13. So we get a 0
difference between them. But you say we do not bet here the N right?\
Thanks
In your first question there was 10F and 3F2 -> no bet because no trigger (sum)
Now it is 10 F2 and 3 F3 this is definetly a trigger with 13 N
hope you got it.
br
winkel
@JHM
your counting is not correct. Please check with this:
[table]
No. R N F
32 36 1 0
18 35 2 0
4 34 3 0
24 33 4 0
16 32 5 0
24 32 4 1
18 32 3 2
23 31 4 2
7 30 5 2
8 29 6 2
6 28 7 2
6 28 6 3
29 27 7 3
6 27 7 3
14 26 8 3
7 26 7 4
8 26 6 5
0 25 7 5
7 25 7 5
0 25 6 6
12 24 7 6
4 24 6 7
26 23 7 7
28 22 8 7
35 21 9 7
9 20 10 7
1 19 11 7
33 18 12 7
20 17 13 7
13 16 14 7
10 15 15 7
1 15 14 8
15 14 15 8
22 13 16 8
18 13 16 8
3 12 17 8
12 12 16 9
8 12 16 9
29 12 15 10
12 12 15 10
36 11 16 10
3 11 15 11
17 10 16 11
16 10 15 12
11 9 16 12
2 8 17 12
25 7 18 12
8 7 18 12
36 7 17 13
17 7 16 14
[/table]
Quote from: Herb on August 21, 2008, 05:19:55 PM
No, I already proved that it won't work.
You claimed that you had proof showing that it tested positive over 10k spins. Where's your data?
I can see where this is going. I'm not going to harrass you for the data because I know you don't have it. ;D
Best of Luck.
-Herb.
Tell me how you want the result?
as print with 5000 pieces of paper
as download with 15GB
as only the result of Plus 163 345
The data is not even on my computer it is the result of a test done by three different computer-freaks
I don´t need to proof every bet, do I?
But even if I send the program and the verified Permanences you would find a argument to be suspicious.
so kiss my ass
I see where it went wrong.
I did
6-27-7-4
You say
6-27-7-3
Numer 6 hitted for the 3th time, so I added one extra to the >1 column. If I understand you right after the 2th hit on an number a 3th hit has no influence on the >1 column?
It doesn't matter if a number hits 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 times?
@JHM
when a number came 2x and appears another time
it is still 1 single number in the amount of the group ">1"
so if there was 20 15 2
and that number that came twice comes once again then we have still
20 15 2
br
winkel
Thanx mate, that´s where I went wrong.
Will check my numbers again tomorrow.
Quote from: winkel on August 21, 2008, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: Panopticon on August 21, 2008, 05:23:28 PM
Ok with my first two questions. I think I did not place the 3rd question correctly and confused you I meant this:
R N F2 F3
11 13 10 3 So here numbers appearing once are 13 and numbers appearing more than once are 10+3=13. So we get a 0
difference between them. But you say we do not bet here the N right?\
Thanks
In your first question there was 10F and 3F2 -> no bet because no trigger (sum)
Now it is 10 F2 and 3 F3 this is definetly a trigger with 13 N
hope you got it.
br
winkel
Yes my mistake winkel! Thanks again. I hope you get us to advanced level soon :)
trial res 0 1 2 3 3+ comment pl
1 15 36 1 0 0 0
2 4 35 2 0 0 0
3 9 34 3 0 0 0
4 27 33 4 0 0 0
5 34 32 5 0 0 0
6 13 31 6 0 0 0
7 27 31 5 1 0 0
8 4 31 4 2 0 0
9 14 30 5 2 0 0
10 18 29 6 2 0 0
11 13 29 5 3 0 0
12 8 28 6 3 0 0
13 25 27 7 3 0 0
14 11 26 8 3 0 0
15 28 25 9 3 0 0
16 30 24 10 3 0 0
17 15 24 9 4 0 0
18 21 23 10 4 0 0
19 30 23 9 5 0 0
20 7 22 10 5 0 0
21 35 21 11 5 0 0
22 3 20 12 5 0 0
23 9 20 11 6 0 0
24 17 19 12 6 0 0 19v18 no play - over 18
25 16 18 13 6 0 0
26 33 17 14 6 0 0
27 4 17 14 5 1 0
28 21 17 13 6 1 0
29 17 17 12 7 1 0
30 36 16 13 7 1 0
31 24 15 14 7 1 0 15v14 bet next spin 15
32 7 15 13 8 1 0 lose - no bet next -15
33 24 15 12 9 1 0
34 36 15 11 10 1 0 11v10 bet 11 next -11
35 36 15 11 9 2 0 11 v11 another bet? -11
36 22 14 12 9 2 0 12 v 11 another bet -12
37 23 13 13 9 2 0 13v13 bet
38 31 12 14 9 2 0 win 23
39 10 11 15 9 2 0
40 30 11 15 8 3 0
41 24 11 15 7 4 0
42 26 10 16 7 4 0
43 16 10 15 8 4 0
44 6 9 16 8 4 0 do you bet the 9v8 crossing?
45 12 8 17 8 4 0
46 32 7 18 8 4 0
47 15 7 18 7 5 0
48 24 7 18 7 4 1
49 16 7 18 6 5 1 6v5 crossing? -6
50 23 7 17 7 5 1 lose - can bet 7 v6 29
51 13 7 17 6 6 1 wins now bet 6v6? -6
52 25 7 16 7 6 1 lose, rebet 7v6 or 7v7? -7
53 2 6 17 7 6 1 rebet 7v7 - lose -7
54 3 6 16 8 6 1 bet 8v7 win 28
55 17 6 16 7 7 1 7v7 = bet? -7
56 4 6 16 7 6 2 7v6 bet but big bet is 16 v15 20
57 35 6 15 8 6 2 16v15wins, 8v8 now bet? -8
58 32 6 14 9 6 2 9v8 loses and no bet -9
59 14 6 13 10 6 2
60 14 6 13 9 7 2 9v9 bet -9
61 6 6 12 10 7 2 10v 9 bet loses too -10
62 8 6 11 11 7 2 bet 11v11 win 25
63 11 6 10 12 7 2
64 28 6 9 13 7 2
65 16 6 9 13 6 3
66 1 5 10 13 6 3
67 35 5 10 12 7 3
68 36 5 10 12 6 4
69 27 5 10 11 7 4 11v11 bet
70 6 5 10 10 8 4 25
71 16 5 10 10 8 4
72 35 5 10 10 7 5
73 32 5 10 9 8 5 9v8bet or 10v9bet? -10
74 8 5 10 8 9 5 I would do 10v9?
75 26 5 9 9 9 5 do first 9v9 27
76 34 5 8 10 9 5 10v9 -10
77 18 5 7 11 9 5
78 36 5 7 11 9 5
79 32 5 7 11 8 6
80 23 5 7 10 9 6 10v9 -10
81 8 5 7 10 8 7 8v7 -8
82 22 5 6 11 8 7 8v7 -8
83 16 5 6 11 8 7 8v7 -8
84 16 5 6 11 8 7 8v7 -8
85 27 5 6 11 7 8 28
this gets complex when you have to make decisions. i felt as if i were losing a lot but it ends up positive!
this has legs. more testing required.
Winkel - can you have a look at my last test.
i will test this baby a lot and i think we will need a test area. first of all though i would like to make sure i am playing right.
started again for rest of that session......
trial res 0 1 2 3 3+ comment pl
86 23 37 0 0 0 0
87 35 36 1 0 0 0
88 33 35 2 0 0 0
89 6 34 3 0 0 0
90 6 34 2 1 0 0
91 31 33 3 1 0 0
92 35 33 2 2 0 0
93 15 32 3 2 0 0
94 8 31 4 2 0 0
95 8 31 3 3 0 0
96 36 30 4 3 0 0
97 18 29 5 3 0 0
98 32 28 6 3 0 0
99 13 27 7 3 0 0
100 9 26 8 3 0 0
101 32 26 7 4 0 0
102 30 25 8 4 0 0
103 9 25 7 5 0 0
104 31 25 6 6 0 0
105 13 25 5 7 0 0
106 12 24 6 7 0 0
107 7 23 7 7 0 0
108 29 22 8 7 0 0
109 16 21 9 7 0 0
110 24 20 10 7 0 0
111 14 19 11 7 0 0 19v18 no bet
112 26 18 12 7 0 0
113 12 18 11 8 0 0
114 6 18 11 7 1 0
115 1 17 12 7 1 0
116 27 16 13 7 1 0
117 17 15 14 7 1 0 15v14 bet the 15 win +21 21
118 19 14 15 7 1 0
119 31 14 15 6 2 0
120 34 13 16 6 2 0
121 9 13 16 5 3 0
122 19 13 15 6 3 0
123 0 12 16 6 3 0
124 4 11 17 6 3 0
125 19 11 17 5 4 0 bet 5v4 lose -5 -5
126 15 11 16 6 4 0
127 25 10 17 6 4 0
128 6 10 17 6 3 1
129 31 10 17 6 2 2 2v2 - not worth it leave?
130 6 10 17 6 2 2
131 28 9 18 6 2 2
132 34 9 17 7 2 2
133 15 9 17 6 3 2 6v5 bet? lose -6 -6
134 26 9 16 7 3 2
135 15 9 16 7 2 3
136 36 9 15 8 2 3
137 17 9 14 9 2 3 14v14 bet 14 lose -14 -14
138 36 9 14 8 3 3 14v14 bet 14 lose -14 -14
139 34 9 14 7 4 3 14v14 bet 14 win +22 22
140 16 9 13 8 4 3 would we bet the third one? Stop after 2 or 3?
141 21 8 14 8 4 3
142 33 8 13 9 4 3
143 29 8 12 10 4 3
144 4 8 11 11 4 3 11v11 bet lose -11
145 32 8 11 10 5 3 11 v 10 bet lose -11
146 14 8 10 11 5 3 11 v 10 bet win 25
147 25 8 9 12 5 3
148 35 8 9 11 6 3
149 1 8 8 12 6 3 would you now rebet the 8v8?
150 28 8 7 13 6 3 and now the 8v7?
151 16 8 7 12 7 3
152 34 8 7 12 6 4
153 18 8 6 13 6 4
154 6 8 6 13 6 4
155 25 8 6 12 7 4 bet 12v11 - don't know result!
total p&l for what seemed a bad session 7
Quote
34 36 15 11 10 1 0 11v10 bet 11 next -11
35 36 15 11 9 2 0 11 v11 another bet? -11
36 22 14 12 9 2 0 12 v 11 another bet -12
37 23 13 13 9 2 0 13v13 bet
38 31 12 14 9 2 0 win 23
this is a very tricky situation of the highest Level:
Here we have to decide whether we play
N vs F
or
N versus F2
N vs F
your betting is correct!
but look at the progression of the "1"s. They came down from 14 13 12 11 = that were 4 in row and we end in
11 10 1
You have to see it as wave rolling through the columns. It is more likely that now appears a "0" or a "2"
Which did!
Thinking should be: better take N vs F2 now a F2 appears and the game stopps because we now got
11 10 changing to 11 9 means difference now is 2
to be continued
br
winkel
Quote44 6 9 16 8 4 0 do you bet the 9v8 crossing?
Yes, but thats the most highest level in play!
br
winkel
Quote
49 16 7 18 6 5 1 6v5 crossing? -6
50 23 7 17 7 5 1 lose - can bet 7 v6 29
51 13 7 17 6 6 1 wins now bet 6v6? -6
52 25 7 16 7 6 1 lose, rebet 7v6 or 7v7? -7
53 2 6 17 7 6 1 rebet 7v7 - lose -7
54 3 6 16 8 6 1 bet 8v7 win 28
55 17 6 16 7 7 1 7v7 = bet? -7
this is absolutely correct.
If you take notice of my post before, you get a closer look for decision!
line 55
You now have bet 7 times F2
look what happened
49 N
50 N
51 F2
52 N
53 R
54 N
55 F2
can you see the tendency to pick a number of every Group? Would you react and say now in the Tendency appears "N"? This is also told as you mentioned by the Crossing:
Quote56 4 6 16 7 6 2 7v6 bet but big bet is 16 v15 20
Quote
57 35 6 15 8 6 2 16v15wins, 8v8 now bet? -8
58 32 6 14 9 6 2 9v8 loses and no bet -9
59 14 6 13 10 6 2
This getting really int o details:
What do you say to:
betting "1" vs "2"+"3" means 15 vs 14 and following
betting same 14 vs 14
That means; You have always to check every possible differences and to play the most likely "wave"
But as you also see: even if you count incorrect or even if you select some wrong Groups in the end it is possible to end in a Plus!!! That is what its makes it a Holy Grail.
br
winkel
your second post of the extended Perm:
look at it with my latest comments!
you will see: youre doing well and the perfection comes with playing it again and again.
The more you play the more you see whats going on!
br
winkel
test airball live: -63units
Hi booray,
can you please give the numbers, so I can comment
br
winkel
People
We severely need to start using the syntax Victor posted for aligning numbers. Here's the link:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/easy-tables-implemented!-(create-tables-by-comma-separated-values)/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/easy-tables-implemented!-(create-tables-by-comma-separated-values)/)
Here is what it looks like after using the syntax.
[table=,]
1,2,3,4
A,B,C,D
E,F,G,H
[/table]
Here's how it looks without the brackets and words and the = sign and the slash sign. I can't write them or it WORKS!! LOL
Spin Number, Number that came, win, loss
1,34,win,
2,14,,loss
Note the two commas after the 14? That moves "loss" over one to align with the loss column. No spaces are necessary. Here's how it looks after you put in the syntax.
[table=,]
Spin Number, Number that came, win, loss
1,34,win,
2,14,,loss
[/table]
Victor has enabled this; let's please use it. It's much easier than trying to use spaces or dots.
Thanks Victor, and thanks for the cats. Any cats will do as all cats are equal!
TwoCatSam
is here any efect of a dealer change
Hey winkel I have read the last posts of yours, but i am not sure I get the "wave" concept. Can you give another example??
Regards
I give you diagram of how the progression of every kind 0; 1; etc. are moving
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1219442523.gif&hash=9cd915298fa38a88a7cab2efc79a9b07aa5e9608)
as you can see only the "0" are going down to 0
all others are rising and then going down to 0 (1;2;3 etc.)
all sums are going up to 37 (>1; >2;>3 etc.)
as they behave that way all the lines have to cross at minimum once with any other line.
On these crossings we bet.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on August 22, 2008, 07:06:36 PM
I give you diagram of how the progression of every kind 0; 1; etc. are moving
as you can see only the "0" are going down to 0
all others are rising and then going down to 0 (1;2;3 etc.)
all sums are going up to 37 (>1; >2;>3 etc.)
as they behave that way all the lines have to cross at minimum once with any other line.
On these crossings we bet.
br
winkel
hi winkel,
I agree the lines have to cross. However, the question is when?
I wrote the RX code and tested this with some live spins. (only the crossing of non-appeares VS. appeares).
But, sometimes the lines go 6-7 or even 10 spins without crossing.
Your thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Roulette787.
QuoteBut, sometimes the lines go 6-7 or even 10 spins without crossing.
That happens on two occasions:
1. there spin favorites in a row
2. there spin once-appearers in a row
That is no problem. Look at the bet-rule!
example for 1.:
we found 15-15
15 numbers we bet max. twice
bet 15 loss -15
bet 15 loss -15 total -30 and stopp and wait for a "new" trigger.
example for 2.:
we found 15-15
we bet only as long as the trigger is alive
15-14 loss -15
15-13 loss -15 and stopp because now there is no trigger anymore
br
winkel
hey winkel,
post some of your results, I am still testing and getting positive results but it takes a while to get into game.
what do you mean by "results"?
br
winkel
results about how many units you win/lose
Hi Boo_Ray
I tested it over 10 000 000 spins and played it since 2 years.
I wouldn´t say it is the Grail if it wasn't.
I will explain any spins that are posted to show how to play. Just give any 50-60 spins and I will show.
br
winkel
I know, I believe you, I just want to have idea how much win/loss per season is it good
I have another question,... Is it better to use 0x 1x 2x 3x 4x thatn just 0x 1x <1
Hi Roulette787 ,
you could post the code of this system?
Thank you.
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 23, 2008, 10:51:50 AM
I know, I believe you, I just want to have idea how much win/loss per season is it good
I have another question,... Is it better to use 0x 1x 2x 3x 4x thatn just 0x 1x <1
In roulette you can't win a fortune. The "Grail" has to be defined as "Not loosing and keeping your starting-bankroll alive"
I play this for 2 years on lasseters with starting bankroll of 50 Euros. this bankroll has been saved and never ever been touched again. From the winnings I formed a second bankroll with which I play. I don't balance every game. Sometimes I serve the gambler in me and bet senseless like hell till my bankroll is down to minimum 50Euros.
Your Question:
If you prefer short games which don#t get to complicated with crossings just bet 50-60 Spins.
As you see the earliest Start is after the 19th spin. (Because you need min. 18 spins to get the first crossing of 19-18. which is not recommended to play.
So if you decide that the numbers you are playing show no good crossings just start it over using the last 19 spins.
Do you play like that you only need to watch these crossings
0 vs 1
1 vs >1
0 vs >1
1 vs 2
or in another Treminology
R vs N
N vs F(all)
R vs F(all)
N vs F2
br
winkel
Winkel
Please tell me if I'm reading this right. I'm in blue:
0 vs 1.....where 0 is = to or one greater than 1
1 vs >1....where 1 is = to or one greater than >1
0 vs >1....where 0 is = to or one greater than >1
1 vs 2......where 1 is = to or one greater than 2
Thanks for your help.
Sam
@tcs
yes
It gets complicated. It is always like that when systems have no firm rules. The liquid rules always falls into duality where we have to decide between two things and most of the time we choose the wrong one (Murpy's Law).
I am out but if we wouldn't try we wouldn't know. System must be simple as possible. In the whole universe valid is always simple only we human beings like to make things complicated as possible.
Thanks for the cake, anyway.
Hermes
Hello Winkel
i have understood that you cannot win big at roulette
you have play this system during 2 years
with a bankrool of 50 euro
you have save this bank roll
approximativly
1/how mutch you win in one session?
2/what is a session for you(how many spin?)
3/you play at 1 euro 2 euros 5 euros what is your money unit ?according to your bank rool(50 euros)?
4/what is your maximum drawdown?(50 euros??)
5/how mutch accumulated win you have playing during those 2 years 50euros??
i respect your work
and I also often folow you on germans roulette board
best from the south of France
ntm
Quote from: hermes on August 23, 2008, 11:59:03 AM
It gets complicated. It is always like that when systems have no firm rules. The liquid rules always falls into duality where we have to decide between two things and most of the time we choose the wrong one (Murpy's Law).
Hermes
where did you find this?
The rules are simple as can be: bet when it is likely to cross.
it is flat bet, no horrifying progression is to learn.
and it is proofed and it is safe. Even if there is one session you cannot win (that´s roulette and you can't escape from that) you will always win that often to stay PLUS.
br
winkel
1/how mutch you win in one session?
[highlight]when I´m in Plus I stopp[/highlight]
2/what is a session for you(how many spin?)
[highlight]session is always stopped if I´m in Plus[/highlight]
3/you play at 1 euro 2 euros 5 euros what is your money unit ?according to your bank rool(50 euros)?
[highlight]I´m no gambler(exception see above) and I don´t want to make a living on it nor wanna win milions. Im just studying if I´m able to beat probability. I play at lasseters with 1ct.[/highlight]
4/what is your maximum drawdown?(50 euros??)
[highlight]never had a draw down. my current bankroll incl. saved starting bankroll is now 120 Euros[/highlight]
5/how mutch accumulated win you have playing during those 2 years 50euros??
[highlight]I was gambling in an unhealthy way twice every month. So if you say every time I´m up to 150 euro (all inclusive) I force down to 100 (al inclusive) you can put a math on it. 2x50Eurosx24months= 2400 Euros with 1ct Chips[/highlight]
i respect your work
and I also often folow you on germans roulette board
[highlight]thanks, so you can proof I never sold anything[/highlight]
br
winkel
Winkel,
Thank you for your answer.
i can also say that Winkel has nothing to sell
everybody involved in roulette know him in Germany
he is a brillant and passionated searcher on roulette and probability
i have the system (winkel 2 ,3 ,12, 37 from roulette laboratory)that somebody here has told that
Winkel was suposed to sell.
there is not any correlation betwen this sytem (roulette laboratory from de Keyser)
and the system that Winkel explain in this topic.
hope every thing is clear now
Ntm
Quote from: winkel on August 23, 2008, 12:38:17 PM
5/how mutch accumulated win you have playing during those 2 years 50euros??
[highlight]I was gambling in an unhealthy way twice every month. So if you say every time I´m up to 150 euro (all inclusive) I force down to 100 (al inclusive) you can put a math on it. 2x50Eurosx24months= 2400 Euros with 1ct Chips[/highlight]
This part of my Answer could be misunderstood.
As I told before I have 5 most-winning-systems that I combine in betting.
Sometimes the correlations give me the exact number that comes up next. As I sum up all bets of the five systems, that leads sometimes to a bet with 5ct (or even more because I use sometime the fibonacci as a winning-progression) on some plein-number so my winnings explode. On the other hand when I decide to bet like a idiot, sometimes I have a lucky streak an win with 1$/Euro bets on plein.
This means: I´m so sure of winning, that even bold-play is no problem. If I loose down to my min-bank-roll I always know I will came back.
br
winkel
Hi Winkel
QuoteIn roulette you can't win a fortune. The "Grail" has to be defined as "Not loosing and keeping your starting-bankroll alive"
I play this for 2 years on lasseters with starting bankroll of 50 Euros. this bankroll has been saved and never ever been touched again. From the winnings I formed a second bankroll with which I play. I don't balance every game. Sometimes I serve the gambler in me and bet senseless like hell till my bankroll is down to minimum 50Euros
You started with a 50 Euro bankroll ... have saved it .... formed a second and are now playing with the second bankroll. Have you not formed other bankrolls and saved them also or is this the extent of your winnings ... 2 bankrolls in 2 years .... if so ..... WOW what a Grail.
::)
TTT
Quote from: TicTacToe on August 23, 2008, 05:54:55 PM
You started with a 50 Euro bankroll ... have saved it .... formed a second and are now playing with the second bankroll.
That is absolutely correct
Quote from: TicTacToe on August 23, 2008, 05:54:55 PM
Have you not formed other bankrolls and saved them also or is this the extent of your winnings ... 2 bankrolls in 2 years .... if so ..... WOW what a Grail.
No I haven't formed another bankroll. Why should I? It's not necessary because I can fill up with winnings as often and as fast as I want.
Money has no worth to me. Just having fun being possible to do senseless gambling with loosing not my money or money I would need for living.
My days are counted and so I decided to spread this around the world hoping to be famous for this after I´m gone.
br
winkel
winkel
I understand where you're coming from. Good for you!
And thanks for sharing!!
Sam
Just for fun I took the spins TCS posted here:
[highlight]Re: Wild Jack or Riverbelle spins---same wheel
« Reply #14 on: Today at 07:13:51 PM »[/highlight]
It is a boring game but I use it to show how I play under this circumstances:
C No. R N F F2 F>2
1 20 36 1 0 0 0
2 11 35 2 0 0 0
3 12 34 3 0 0 0
4 18 33 4 0 0 0
5 25 32 5 0 0 0
6 33 31 6 0 0 0
7 11 31 5 1 1 0
8 11 31 5 1 0 1
9 20 31 4 2 1 1
10 9 30 5 2 1 1
11 18 30 4 3 2 1
12 0 29 5 3 2 1
13 10 28 6 3 2 1
14 34 27 7 3 2 1
15 28 26 8 3 2 1
16 11 26 8 3 2 1
17 19 25 9 3 2 1
18 11 25 9 3 2 1
19 9 25 8 4 3 1
20 20 25 8 4 2 2
21 25 25 7 5 3 2
22 10 25 6 6 4 2
23 16 24 7 6 4 2
24 11 24 7 6 4 2
25 20 24 7 6 4 2
26 17 23 8 6 4 2
27 8 22 9 6 4 2
28 30 21 10 6 4 2
29 9 21 10 6 3 3
30 17 21 9 7 4 3
31 1 20 10 7 4 3
32 34 20 9 8 5 3
33 29 19 10 8 5 3 as you see the first crossing is very late
34 9 19 10 8 5 3 but we have very few numbers coming up yet
35 35 18 11 8 5 3
36 21 17 12 8 5 3
37 13 16 13 8 5 3 bet win tot
38 7 15 14 8 5 3 even that here were 4 numbers form the "0" "R" I bet the 15
39 23 14 15 8 5 3 win -15 36 21
40 8 14 14 9 6 3 here a new trigger. I bet because I await missing numbers to come
41 19 14 13 10 7 3 loss but still a trigger so I bet again -14 7
42 27 13 14 10 7 3 -14 36 29
43 5 12 15 10 7 3 in the last spins many "0" "R" appeared so I await that my next crossing on "1" "N" vs ">1" "F" will win
44 33 12 14 11 8 3
45 0 12 13 12 9 3 here is the trigger
46 27 12 12 13 10 3 an here the win -13 36 52
47 17 12 12 13 9 4 totasl 52 is enough I start a new selection/session
48 36 11 13 13 9 4
49 1 11 12 14 10 4 despite of my stopping here would have been the next crossing winning
50 10 11 12 14 9 5
As I described before I jump 19 numbers back to start new search for a trigger. I start with spin 28 number 30
This is what came up:
C No. R N F F2 F>2
1 30 36 1 0 0 0
2 9 35 2 0 0 0
3 17 34 3 0 0 0
4 1 33 4 0 0 0
5 34 32 5 0 0 0
6 29 31 6 0 0 0
7 9 31 5 1 1 0
8 35 30 6 1 1 0
9 21 29 7 1 1 0
10 13 28 8 1 1 0
11 7 27 9 1 1 0
12 23 26 10 1 1 0
13 8 25 11 1 1 0
14 19 24 12 1 1 0
15 27 23 13 1 1 0
16 5 22 14 1 1 0
17 33 21 15 1 1 0
18 0 20 16 1 1 0
19 27 20 15 2 2 0
20 17 20 14 3 3 0
21 36 19 15 3 3 0 as you see this part is different 19 Number are normal at spin 25 it is early
22 1 19 14 4 4 0 let´s see what comes up
23 10 18 15 4 4 0
24 25 17 16 4 4 0 because so many "0" "R" have come up so early it is a risk to play this crossing but I do
25 35 17 15 5 5 0 loss -17 an stopp because trigger is killed
26 33 17 14 6 6 0
27 11 16 15 6 6 0 nest trigger
28 31 15 16 6 6 0 win -16 36 20 -17 3
29 17 15 16 6 5 1
30 13 15 15 7 6 1 next trigger but I dont like to play same trigger-position 3 times so I stopped and start
31 8 15 14 8 7 1 a new session going back 19 numbers
32 30 15 13 9 8 1 the trigger would have lost with -30
33 4 14 14 9 8 1 new trigger
34 3 13 15 9 8 1 had won +22
third start in the same permanences
C No. R N F F2 F>2
1 7 36 1 0 0 0
2 23 35 2 0 0 0
3 8 34 3 0 0 0
4 19 33 4 0 0 0
5 27 32 5 0 0 0
6 5 31 6 0 0 0
7 33 30 7 0 0 0
8 0 29 8 0 0 0
9 27 29 7 1 1 0
10 17 28 8 1 1 0
11 36 27 9 1 1 0
12 1 26 10 1 1 0
13 10 25 11 1 1 0
14 25 24 12 1 1 0
15 35 23 13 1 1 0
16 33 23 12 2 2 0
17 11 22 13 2 2 0
18 31 21 14 2 2 0
19 17 21 13 3 3 0
20 13 20 14 3 3 0
21 8 20 13 4 4 0
22 30 19 14 4 4 0 this one is early as well so i will be carefull again
23 4 18 15 4 4 0
24 3 17 16 4 4 0 I bet again the 17
25 15 16 17 4 4 0 win -17 36 19
26 6 15 18 4 4 0
27 35 15 17 5 5 0
28 3 15 16 6 6 0
29 33 15 16 6 5 1
30 26 14 17 6 5 1
31 29 13 18 6 5 1
32 17 13 18 6 4 2
33 12 12 19 6 4 2 up to here the chance to meet a trigger is nearly gon so I stopp
In 3 starts I won
52 + 3 + 19 = 74
bet: 106 units
win: 180 units
tot: 74 units
return: 74/106*100=69,81%
can anyone do better?
br
winkel
by mistake I started with page two.
So here the start with page one
C No. R N F F2 F>2
1 19 36 1 0 0 0
2 15 35 2 0 0 0
3 9 34 3 0 0 0
4 17 33 4 0 0 0
5 34 32 5 0 0 0
6 16 31 6 0 0 0
7 2 30 7 0 0 0
8 10 29 8 0 0 0
9 15 29 7 1 1 0
10 5 28 8 1 1 0
11 11 27 9 1 1 0
12 13 26 10 1 1 0
13 25 25 11 1 1 0
14 27 24 12 1 1 0
15 5 24 11 2 2 0
16 16 24 10 3 3 0
17 34 24 9 4 4 0
18 23 23 10 4 4 0
19 13 23 9 5 5 0
20 8 22 10 5 5 0
21 10 22 9 6 6 0
22 5 22 9 6 5 1
23 6 21 10 6 5 1
24 26 20 11 6 5 1
25 0 19 12 6 5 1 first crossing on the point
26 1 18 13 6 5 1
27 11 18 12 7 6 1
28 12 17 13 7 6 1
29 23 17 12 8 7 1
30 30 16 13 8 7 1
31 19 16 12 9 8 1
32 24 15 13 9 8 1
33 8 15 12 10 9 1
34 16 15 12 10 8 2
35 6 15 11 11 9 2 first possible crossing, but we didn´t have a crossing "ß"vs "1" so we don´t play this
36 5 15 11 11 9 2 and stopp this and jum back 19 numbers
C No. R N F F2 F>2
1 23 36 1 0 0 0
2 13 35 2 0 0 0
3 8 34 3 0 0 0
4 10 33 4 0 0 0
5 5 32 5 0 0 0
6 6 31 6 0 0 0
7 26 30 7 0 0 0
8 0 29 8 0 0 0
9 1 28 9 0 0 0
10 11 27 10 0 0 0
11 12 26 11 0 0 0
12 23 26 10 1 1 0
13 30 25 11 1 1 0
14 19 24 12 1 1 0
15 24 23 13 1 1 0
16 8 23 12 2 2 0
17 16 22 13 2 2 0
18 6 22 12 3 3 0
19 5 22 11 4 4 0
20 10 22 10 5 5 0
21 22 21 11 5 5 0
22 9 20 12 5 5 0
23 19 20 11 6 6 0
24 20 19 12 6 6 0
25 20 19 11 7 7 0
26 12 19 10 8 8 0
27 34 18 11 8 8 0
28 30 18 10 9 9 0
29 5 18 10 9 8 1
30 21 17 11 9 8 1
31 3 16 12 9 8 1
32 11 16 11 10 9 1
33 20 16 11 10 8 2
34 30 16 11 10 7 3
35 4 15 12 10 7 3 bet win tot
36 32 14 13 10 7 3 fist trigger
37 14 13 14 10 7 3 won -14 36 22
38 29 12 15 10 7 3
39 8 12 15 10 6 4
40 13 12 14 11 7 4 second trigger "0" vs ">1"
41 1 12 13 12 8 4 lost -12 10
42 7 11 14 12 8 4 won -12 36 34
43 28 10 15 12 8 4
44 1 10 15 12 7 5
45 30 10 15 12 7 5
46 15 9 16 12 7 5
47 3 9 15 13 8 5
48 34 9 14 14 9 5 third trigger "1" vs ">1"
49 5 9 14 14 9 5 lost -14 20
50 32 9 13 15 10 5 win -14 36 42
51 0 9 12 16 11 5 fourth trigger "0" vs ">1"
52 29 9 11 17 12 5 win -12 36 64 and stopp
53 12 9 11 17 11 6 and jump 19 back
No. R N F F2 F>2
30 36 1 0 0 0
4 35 2 0 0 0
32 34 3 0 0 0
14 33 4 0 0 0
29 32 5 0 0 0
8 31 6 0 0 0
13 30 7 0 0 0
1 29 8 0 0 0
7 28 9 0 0 0
28 27 10 0 0 0
1 27 9 1 1 0
30 27 8 2 2 0
15 26 9 2 2 0
3 25 10 2 2 0
34 24 11 2 2 0
5 23 12 2 2 0
32 23 11 3 3 0
0 22 12 3 3 0
29 22 11 4 4 0
12 21 12 4 4 0
19 20 13 4 4 0
31 19 14 4 4 0
27 18 15 4 4 0 bet win tot
6 17 16 4 4 0 first trigger
17 16 17 4 4 0 won -17 36 19
7 16 16 5 5 0 second Trigger
1 16 16 5 4 1 lost -16
34 16 15 6 5 1 lost -16 -13 stopp
16 15 16 6 5 1
15 15 15 7 6 1 third trigger
27 15 14 8 7 1 lost -15 -28
34 15 14 8 6 2 lost -15 -43 stopp
14 15 13 9 7 2
11 14 14 9 7 2 fourth trigger
36 13 15 9 7 2 won -14 36 -21
31 13 14 10 8 2
1 13 14 10 8 2
15 13 14 10 7 3
14 13 14 10 6 4
27 13 14 10 5 5
22 12 15 10 5 5
0 12 14 11 6 5 fifth trigger
20 11 15 11 6 5 won -12 24 3 bad session in Plus so stopp and jump back
because this is boring I stopp my own selection of spins.
Please give me your spins
Start with 19 spins and I will tell you how many spins I need more
so we can aim a Live Game
otherwise you could tell me selecting only the winners.
br
winkel
winkel
I will give you 19 numbers from the CasinoWebCam wheel. It is a John Huxley Starburst. I will scan the sheet and e-mail it to myself so you will know the date and the numbers at this time. No cheating. Or I'll mail it to a third party.
OK, it's done. The email is dated Aug 23 at 10:12 PM Central Standard Time or GMT +5 I think.
Here are 19 numbers:
25
16
14
29
34
19
22
14
21
23
10
22
8
17
16
36
18
18
8
I would love to learn this method.
Sam
Any test results other than Winkel?
Hi TCS,
I believe your numbers:
after 19 spins we have
C No. R N F F2 F>2
19 8 23 9 5 5 0
so please give another 5 numbers
br
winkel
If I understood correctly with 1cent bets getting from 50 Euros to 120 Euros, means profit of 7.000 units. Not bad at all I think after two years...It also means you need initial bankroll of 5000 units ;)
Hi Panopticon,
In real you don´t need 5000 units. 300 would be ok.
br
winkel
winkel - could you advise how to play this session.
i have been testing 4 systems this weekend. i am on 8th session. this system has produced 16 winning sessions. One marginal loss which is insignificant and then this session.
i think if played right this one could result in a win. ie - if a line crosses a line but then crosses it again - do we replay. this is where the trouble comes. also i think the numbers get a bit wonky. if we had left on first plus, we would have won on the session....
i also didnt observe the rules around stopping after 2. I think this could be a good session to show up how you would play this one.
here it is.
no. 0 1 2 3 3+
25 36 1 0 0 0
11 35 2 0 0 0
12 34 3 0 0 0
24 33 4 0 0 0
22 32 5 0 0 0
5 31 6 0 0 0
29 30 7 0 0 0
30 29 8 0 0 0
6 28 9 0 0 0
12 28 8 1 0 0
15 27 9 1 0 0
36 26 10 1 0 0
34 25 11 1 0 0
3 24 12 1 0 0
20 23 13 1 0 0
21 22 14 1 0 0
3 22 13 2 0 0
23 21 14 2 0 0
14 20 15 2 0 0
33 19 16 2 0 0
5 19 15 3 0 0
29 19 14 4 0 0
5 19 14 3 1 0 19v 18 - no play since 19
17 18 15 3 1 0
10 17 16 3 1 0 17v16 - play the 17
16 16 17 3 1 0 win +19 19
25 16 16 4 1 0 16v16 - play the 16
17 16 15 5 1 0 lose 16 -16
7 15 16 5 1 0 win +20 20
24 15 15 6 1 0 15v15 - play 15
14 15 14 7 1 0 lose-15, play again -15
11 15 13 8 1 0 lose -15. no bet now sing 15v13 -15
29 15 13 7 2 0
33 15 12 8 2 0
18 14 13 8 2 0 14v13 - play 14
14 14 13 7 3 0 lose 14 - replay -14
14 14 13 7 2 1 lose 14 - replay -14
29 14 13 7 1 2 lose 14 - replay -14
30 14 12 8 1 2 lose 14 - stop and play 12v11? -14
24 14 12 7 2 2 lose 12 replay -12
33 14 12 6 3 2 lose 12 replay -12
33 14 12 6 2 3 lose 12 replay -12
28 13 13 6 2 3 lose 12 - now 13v13 -12
13 12 14 6 2 3 win 23 23
21 12 13 7 2 3 13v12 play 13
12 12 13 6 3 3 lose 13 replay -13
26 11 14 6 3 3 lose 13, no bet -13
1 10 15 6 3 3
3 10 15 5 4 3
35 9 16 5 4 3
32 8 17 5 4 3
3 8 17 5 3 4
3 8 17 5 3 4
27 7 18 5 3 4
12 7 18 5 2 5
10 7 17 6 2 5 do you play the 7v6?
3 7 17 6 2 5 do you play the 7v6?
10 7 17 5 3 5
16 7 16 6 3 5 do you play the 7v6?
19 6 17 6 3 5
7 6 16 7 3 5 16v 15 play 16 -16
3 6 16 7 3 5 lose, play 16 -16
5 6 16 7 2 6 lose - play 16 -16
0 5 17 7 2 6 lose - no bet?
4 4 18 7 2 6
9 3 19 7 2 6
15 3 18 8 2 6
29 3 18 8 2 6
4 3 17 9 2 6 17v17 play 17 -17
10 3 17 9 1 7 lose, play 17 -17
25 3 17 8 2 7 lose play 17 -17
36 3 16 9 2 7 win +19 19
24 3 16 9 1 8
9 3 15 10 1 8 LOSS -194
Hi tucktuckster,
as I said in one of my plays: I don#t like to bet the same trigger-situation 3 times in a row.
so I had stopped after the result of +23 and would have jumped back 19 numbers
and we would have found this situation:
1 36 36 1 0 0 0
2 34 35 2 0 0 0
3 3 34 3 0 0 0
4 20 33 4 0 0 0
5 21 32 5 0 0 0
6 3 32 4 1 1 0
7 23 31 5 1 1 0
8 14 30 6 1 1 0
9 33 29 7 1 1 0
10 5 28 8 1 1 0
11 29 27 9 1 1 0
12 5 27 8 2 2 0
13 17 26 9 2 2 0
14 10 25 10 2 2 0
15 16 24 11 2 2 0
16 25 23 12 2 2 0
17 17 23 11 3 3 0
18 7 22 12 3 3 0
19 24 21 13 3 3 0
20 14 21 12 4 4 0
21 11 20 13 4 4 0
22 29 20 12 5 5 0
23 33 20 11 6 6 0
24 18 19 12 6 6 0
25 14 19 12 6 5 1
26 14 19 12 6 5 1
27 29 19 12 6 4 2
28 30 18 13 6 4 2
29 24 18 12 7 5 2
30 33 18 12 7 4 3
31 33 18 12 7 4 3
32 28 17 13 7 4 3
33 13 16 14 7 4 3
34 21 16 13 8 5 3
35 12 15 14 8 5 3
36 26 14 15 8 5 3 -14 36 22
37 1 13 16 8 5 3
38 3 13 16 8 4 4
39 35 12 17 8 4 4
40 32 11 18 8 4 4
41 3 11 18 8 4 4
42 3 11 18 8 4 4
43 x 11 18 8 4 4
and we see there is no crossing in sight. so start again 19 back from coup 37
C No. R N F F2 F>2
1 24 36 1 0 0 0
2 14 35 2 0 0 0
3 11 34 3 0 0 0
4 29 33 4 0 0 0
5 33 32 5 0 0 0
6 18 31 6 0 0 0
7 14 31 5 1 1 0
8 14 31 5 1 0 1
9 29 31 4 2 1 1
10 30 30 5 2 1 1
11 24 30 4 3 2 1
12 33 30 3 4 3 1
13 33 30 3 4 2 2
14 28 29 4 4 2 2
15 13 28 5 4 2 2
16 21 27 6 4 2 2
17 12 26 7 4 2 2
18 26 25 8 4 2 2
19 1 24 9 4 2 2
20 3 23 10 4 2 2
21 35 22 11 4 2 2
22 32 21 12 4 2 2
23 3 21 11 5 3 2
24 3 21 11 5 2 3
25 27 20 12 5 2 3
26 12 20 11 6 3 3
27 10 19 12 6 3 3
28 3 19 12 6 3 3
29 10 19 11 7 4 3
30 16 18 12 7 4 3
31 19 17 13 7 4 3
32 7 16 14 7 4 3
33 3 16 14 7 4 3
34 5 15 15 7 4 3
35 0 14 16 7 4 3 -15 36 21
36 4 13 17 7 4 3
37 9 12 18 7 4 3
38 15 11 19 7 4 3
39 29 11 19 7 3 4
40 x 11 19 7 3 4
and as you see we find same situation, the "1" are running away. so if we find our first crossing very late it is better to start a new selecting.
don´t play with the intention of long runs using every crossing up to "2" vs "3".
I hope you can get my idea of playing
br
winkel
the next five........
4
23
10
30
6
19 8 23 9 5 5 0
20 4 22 10 5 5 0
21 23 22 9 6 6 0
22 10 22 8 7 7 0
23 30 21 9 7 7 0
24 6 20 10 7 7 0
it seems that the we get a perm with normal situations
that means exactly 19 R at spin 25.
so I need 2 more spins
thx
winkel
31
21
Here's a great thread that would benefit most of the readers here.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/reference-area/roulette-probability-made-easier-t2193/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/reference-area/roulette-probability-made-easier-t2193/)
22 10 22 8 7 7 0
23 30 21 9 7 7 0
24 6 20 10 7 7 0
25 31 19 11 7 7 0
26 21 19 10 8 8 0
27 x 19 10 8 8 0
28 x 19 10 8 8 0
we need at minimum 4 spins to meet the first crossing
we wouldn´t play a possible 9 "1" vs 9 "2"
Are you saying for me to post the next four?
Yes
I have severe problems with my harddisk it collapses every minute.
Sorry for being off for some days
br
winkel
Quote from: Herb on August 24, 2008, 03:26:59 PM
Here's a great thread that would benefit most of the readers here.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/reference-area/roulette-probability-made-easier-t2193/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/reference-area/roulette-probability-made-easier-t2193/)
Blind man tell me what the probabilities of Even Chances got to do with the Binomial Structure.
The next four numbers:
35
7
24
10
okay - so some of the rules.
if a line crosses, it has crossed. tend not to revisit.
after the no hits crosses the one hit, restart if the one his is way ahead of the >1 hit.
in the other sessions i have tested this has basically churned out a small win. nothing spectacular, but just churns out the win.
how carefully do you play the 2 trials only if 13-18 numbers and 3 trials if 9-12?
basically if it was 16 no hits and 15 with 1 hit, and say a 2 hit number landed on first and second bet, would you take the loss and stop for next signal of would you bet for a third time?
I hope I got my system working again
21 23 22 9 6 6 0
22 10 22 8 7 7 0
23 30 21 9 7 7 0
24 6 20 10 7 7 0
25 31 19 11 7 7 0
26 21 19 10 8 8 0
27 35 18 11 8 8 0
28 7 17 12 8 8 0
29 24 16 13 8 8 0
30 10 16 13 8 7 1
this is nice situation
we had
0
1
0
0
0
>1
so we have all groups with a hit
please one more number
a) we get a crossing
b) we get a "1" hit
when we get a crossing I don´t bet
when we get a "1"
then I need two numbers
if we get a ">1" which is unlikely
i need 1 number
br
winkel
Quotehow carefully do you play the 2 trials only if 13-18 numbers and 3 trials if 9-12?
basically if it was 16 no hits and 15 with 1 hit, and say a 2 hit number landed on first and second bet, would you take the loss and stop for next signal of would you bet for a third time?
I try to explain what I´m watching during play. please red the test with TCS
I never bet a crossing that has not appeared a third time at 16-15.
It is always better to jump back and restart. don´t bet if youre not sure the hit is possible.
You might miss a win but will miss also a loss. Better to wait for a good chance
br
winkel
13
:)
as I said:
when we get a crossing I don´t bet
so please 1 more spin
thx
winkel
Winkel,
Does this system work with online casino's using RNG's or only REAL live dealer spun wheels?
Also, if one were to use this in a REAL live brick and motar casino, would tons of paper and pens and tracking need to take place to be effective? If so, how efficient would this be and how would casino security react?
Hi madup,
on my experience there is absolutely no difference between RNG and realwheel numbers.
even Online-Casinos are not able to beat this, because they had to produce "impossible" spin-rows.
Of course nothing is impossible but the structure of this strategy doesn´t let you run in a big row of losses.
Quotewould tons of paper and pens and tracking need to take place to be effective?
Be aware that there can#t be an easy system to beat the probability. So you have to note the spins to see what is going on and how the tendency is developing.
Security won#t bother if you have a piece of paper and a pen. The normal dealer wouldn#t see what and why you are betting your selection.
In Germany any Casino likes the people with paper and pen, because until today it is common to know that these people are bound to loose, because no strategy is proofed to win. Except from this one and the other four I got.
br
winkel
0
Winkel,
Sounds good! Are your other 4 system's better than this, or comparable? Are any easier to track or more efficient? Have you or would you ever share them?
@TCS
I´ve missed the crossing because i was careful
please give 2 new spins
br
winkel
Quote from: madupz4 on August 24, 2008, 09:38:27 PM
Winkel,
Sounds good! Are your other 4 system's better than this, or comparable? Are any easier to track or more efficient? Have you or would you ever share them?
I just combine these five systems to be sure my bet selection is correct. it´s a kind of cross-check.
All my systems are easy with simple rules. The difficulty for people seems to be the need for notation and to analyse whats going on.
I´ve shared all my systems. They are open for public in forums around the world.
br
winkel
20
32
25 31 19 11 7 7
26 21 19 10 8 8
27 35 18 11 8 8
28 7 17 12 8 8
29 24 16 13 8 8
30 10 16 13 8 7
31 13 15 14 8 7
32 0 14 15 8 7
33 20 13 16 8 7
34 32 12 17 8 7
this is the situation: I didn´t expect 5 "0" in a row. But nothing happened there is no money lost.
I think this is overdue so I jump
I am now looking for a good jump
so please give me 1 more spin.
Another of my strategies tells me that no the "1"s are in favour.
let´s see what happens
br
winkel
35
Winkel, I am clearly not alone in thinking that you are making some pretty wild claims here. In fact, you are saying that you have proved something that has never been proved in roulette history. Without testing this over 10 million spins, I can only take your word for it. But if you are so sure about this, why don't you publish your "Great Universal Theory"? Or, try and contact someone like John Ball or Grigory Perelman to see what the world's leading math experts make of it?
Anyway, if this is the real deal, I have nothing but the utmost respect. However, I am sure you can understand why some people would have difficulty beleiving your GUT at this moment.
CD
I am so freakin' lost!
I thought he HAD published it! What have I been studying??
Sam
Oh - if it is published, where?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought all that stuff at the beginning of this thread was it.
Roulette787
I think you really have to rx code this...
Cheers
Ice
@TCS
this is running out of range
35 5 11 18 8 7 1
so please give 10 new numbers and I will find a better bet-situation
thx
winkel
QuoteHowever, I am sure you can understand why some people would have difficulty beleiving your GUT at this moment.
@chickendinner
I don´t ask people to believe this. I give them the chance to test it and see what comes out.
G.U.T is just a funny name to describe the game. The Theory is: in binomial distribution of the number of a permanence the lines for each character (R,N,F or 0;1;>1 or how you like to describe) have to cross.
That´s it.
br
winkel
Why don't you try to prove this theory in an academic-style paper and get it published? Well, that's what I would do anyway...
Cheers
CD
Hi CD
it got nothing to do with math. It is just watching whats going on and betting when a crossing is in sight.
The new thing is to watch the three characteristics at the same time. Until now most have only watched either sleepers or favorites. I added the "Normalos" the "1"-comers to it and made a diagram of the binomial distribution.
My work is simply combing a bread and a electric saw to a Bread-slicing-machine.
br
winkel
Ten new numbers from a different day......
2
16
20
24
3
0
12
6
3
31
Coups Permanenz R N F F2 F3
1 18 36 1 0 0 0
2 8 35 2 0 0 0
3 4 34 3 0 0 0
4 23 33 4 0 0 0
5 10 32 5 0 0 0
6 30 31 6 0 0 0
7 6 30 7 0 0 0
8 31 29 8 0 0 0
9 21 28 9 0 0 0
10 35 27 10 0 0 0
11 7 26 11 0 0 0
12 24 25 12 0 0 0
13 10 25 11 1 1 0
14 13 24 12 1 1 0
15 0 23 13 1 1 0
16 20 22 14 1 1 0
17 32 21 15 1 1 0
18 5 20 16 1 1 0
19 2 19 17 1 1 0
20 16 18 18 1 1 0
21 20 18 17 2 2 0
22 24 18 16 3 3 0
23 3 17 17 3 3 0
24 0 17 16 4 4 0
25 12 16 17 4 4 0
26 6 16 16 5 5 0
27 3 16 15 6 6 0
28 31 16 14 7 7 0
Hi TCS,
with your new numbers I can proof, that it is possible to play anywhere with any numbers even they are from different tables. i only need my own notation.
situation is 16 14
if it forms up to 15 15 I will bet
If it forms up to 16 13 no trigger
so you can give 2 new numbers
br
winkel
I am sorry I made a mistake in my first ten numbers: they should be
2
16
20
24
3
0
12
6
31
3
I live in a house of confusion. I am sorry! Do you need two numbers now or do you need to recalculate?
Sam
21 20 18 17 2 2 0
22 24 18 16 3 3 0
23 3 17 17 3 3 0
24 0 17 16 4 4 0
25 12 16 17 4 4 0
26 6 16 16 5 5 0
27 31 16 15 6 6 0
28 3 16 14 7 7 0
The prediction is the same
if 15 15 I bet
so please two numbers
31
34
31 16 15 6 6 0
3 16 14 7 7 0
31 16 14 7 6 1
34 15 15 7 6 1
so I bet now
please one number
28
28 3 16 14 7 7 0
29 31 16 14 7 6 1
30 34 15 15 7 6 1
31 28 14 16 7 6 1
so I bet -15 won 36 total +21
the next crossing could be after 2 spins if they are both "1"
so please two spins
br
thx
winkel
Winkel - your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Apologies if i am slow in picking this up. I want to learn. I appreciate your efforts and in my mind I am learning. I see where this is going, I see the value in this and I can only thank you for your patience.
I will make mistakes. But hopefully you will see improvement in the mindset that i am taking in applying this strategy.
Here is my latest test. I will run one more tonight after this and await your feedback.
rgds
SPIN Res 0 1 2 3 3+
1 13 36 1 0 0 0
2 23 35 2 0 0 0
3 0 34 3 0 0 0
4 33 33 4 0 0 0
5 26 32 5 0 0 0
6 31 31 6 0 0 0
7 36 30 7 0 0 0
8 16 29 8 0 0 0
9 30 28 9 0 0 0
10 23 28 8 1 0 0
11 27 27 9 1 0 0
12 33 27 8 2 0 0
13 20 26 9 2 0 0
14 19 25 10 2 0 0
15 22 24 11 2 0 0
16 8 23 12 2 0 0
17 15 22 13 2 0 0
18 17 21 14 2 0 0
19 28 20 15 2 0 0
20 36 20 14 3 0 0
21 36 20 14 2 1 0
22 17 20 13 3 1 0
23 2 19 14 3 1 0
24 30 19 13 4 1 0
25 12 18 14 4 1 0
26 24 17 15 4 1 0 near crossing....
27 34 16 16 4 1 0 opportunity - 4 zero in a row but bet 16
28 5 15 17 4 1 0 win +16 16
29 35 14 18 4 1 0
30 7 13 19 4 1 0 little chance of future bets. Stop and backtrack.
31 24 22 12 3 0 0
32 20 21 13 3 0 0
33 12 21 12 4 0 0
34 31 20 13 4 0 0
35 23 19 14 4 0 0
36 14 18 15 4 0 0
37 2 18 14 5 0 0
38 16 17 15 5 0 0
39 20 17 14 6 0 0
40 20 17 14 5 1 0
41 24 17 14 4 2 0
42 32 16 15 4 2 0 bet opportunity. Zeros not been coming in so bet 16 -16
43 30 16 14 5 2 0 lose 16. opportunity gone. Wait
44 21 15 15 5 2 0 new opportunity. Bet the 15.
45 25 14 16 5 2 0 win 21 units. see more spins maybe more 1 will hit 21
46 10 13 17 5 2 0 looking unlikely now
47 31 13 16 6 2 0
48 27 12 17 6 2 0 way off next bet. Go back 19 and re-track
49 15 12 16 7 2 0 (had I carried on - I believe in 6 spins I could have bet on
1 crossing >1 13v12 and win 23.
50 2 22 12 2 1 0
51 22 21 13 2 1 0
52 32 21 12 3 1 0
53 19 20 13 3 1 0
54 34 19 14 3 1 0
55 8 18 15 3 1 0
56 10 18 14 4 1 0
57 0 17 15 4 1 0
58 23 17 14 5 1 0
59 6 16 15 5 1 0 bet opportunity on the 16 v15.
60 17 15 16 5 1 0 win +19. wait to see if 1 hits? 19
61 27 15 15 6 1 0 it does. New opportunity on 15 v 15. zeros and 1 alternating so bet
62 4 14 16 6 1 0 win +21. maybe another opp if a 1 hits. 21
63 35 13 17 6 1 0 it doesn't. - maybe dead duck since >1 long way off 1's.
64 1 12 18 6 1 0 long way off next bet. Reset and track back again.
65 26 11 19 6 1 0
66 35 11 18 7 1 0 didn't track back since session ran out of spins.
67 19 11 17 8 1 0
68 7 10 18 8 1 0 TOTAL SESSION P&L 61
Hi tucktuckster,
you really got it. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
br
winkel
winkel.
this one isnt so good. i am doing this 1 spin at a time. so there are my thoughts there (ie - should i have done this or should i do that?). your feedback would be most beneficial here since some real tough dilemmas and decisions. i made mistakes. i am sure others would too so your comments will help us all.
d3 0 1 2 3 3+
8 36 1 0 0 0
17 35 2 0 0 0
26 34 3 0 0 0
29 33 4 0 0 0
17 33 3 1 0 0
28 32 4 1 0 0
10 31 5 1 0 0
5 30 6 1 0 0
18 29 7 1 0 0
6 28 8 1 0 0
10 28 7 2 0 0
16 27 8 2 0 0
21 26 9 2 0 0
17 26 9 1 1 0
8 26 8 2 1 0
4 25 9 2 1 0
33 24 10 2 1 0
31 23 11 2 1 0
10 23 11 1 2 0
13 22 12 1 2 0
25 21 13 1 2 0
7 20 14 1 2 0
6 20 13 2 2 0
25 20 12 3 2 0
30 19 13 3 2 0
24 18 14 3 2 0
15 17 15 3 2 0
24 17 14 4 2 0
36 16 15 4 2 0 16 v 15 - bet the 16.
3 15 16 4 2 0 win and +16 16
21 15 15 5 2 0 the 1 lands to give 15 v15. bet the 15.
4 15 14 6 2 0 lose, but the trigger 15v 14 exists and 3 1's in a row so -15
11 14 15 6 2 0 chance of end of seq. bet and win +21. 21
5 14 14 7 2 0 14v14. have bet this 3 times but only twice was winners. Creates dielma. Bet though.
9 13 15 7 2 0 win and +22. No more bets then on 0 crossing 1. Look for 1 crossing >1. 22
21 13 15 6 3 0
22 12 16 6 3 0
23 11 17 6 3 0 getting long way off. Retrack now since need long run of 1's to get there.
9 21 12 4 0 0
0 20 13 4 0 0
28 19 14 4 0 0
1 18 15 4 0 0
23 18 14 5 0 0
10 17 15 5 0 0
13 17 14 6 0 0
18 16 15 6 0 0 none greater than 1 = risky but bet the 16
13 16 15 5 1 0 lose 16 rebet -16
13 16 15 5 0 1 lose 16. do not rebet. 2 loss in a row. Retrack -16
28 16 14 6 0 1 maybe shouldn't have bet since no >1 = risky
2 15 15 6 0 1
17 14 16 6 0 1 there is crossing if I had carried on.
11 21 10 5 1 0
34 20 11 5 1 0
27 19 12 5 1 0
2 19 11 6 1 0
7 18 12 6 1 0
20 17 13 6 1 0
23 17 13 5 2 0
14 16 14 5 2 0 nicer mix. Couple of >1. Looking for a zero to land to give signal.
27 16 13 6 2 0 longer wait in store
36 15 14 6 2 0 here is signal. Bet 15 v14
32 14 15 6 2 0 win +21 21
29 13 16 6 2 0 wait
3 13 15 7 2 0 wait.
15 12 16 7 2 0 wait to see if 1 v >1 develops.
3 12 16 6 3 0
19 11 17 6 3 0 looking unlikely now
26 10 18 6 3 0 time to retrack. Retrack time since long way off next.
25 18 16 3 0 0 Not looking clever. All 1's
34 18 15 4 0 0
30 17 16 4 0 0 don't like it since all 1's and so high odds of 1's hitting. Do not bet.
35 16 17 4 0 0 it wins - but I didn't get involved. No worries. Track on.
8 15 18 4 0 0
12 14 19 4 0 0 chance of bet = small
9 13 20 4 0 0 very small. Time for retrack.
13 19 17 1 0 0
9 19 16 2 0 0
24 18 17 2 0 0 not interested in bet since 1's too dominant
3 18 17 1 1 0 not interested in bet since 1's too dominant
23 18 16 2 1 0 bet gone. Continue tracking
33 17 17 2 1 0 not interested in bet since 1's too dominant
17 16 18 2 1 0 it would have won. No drama. Conservative nature works.
27 16 17 3 1 0
8 16 16 4 1 0 now interesting situation. Trigger. Few 1's in a row. So zero may hit. No bet but I think I may be wrong
19 16 15 5 1 0 no we have 3 1's hit in a row. I think now is a better bet. But no bet since 0 has failed to cross one 4 times
15 16 14 6 1 0
7 15 15 6 1 0 will retrack but wanted to include this one, since I think it will win.
31 14 16 6 1 0 it wins. I thought it might. But didn't bet
2 21 14 2 0 0
16 20 15 2 0 0
31 20 14 3 0 0
33 20 13 4 0 0
24 20 12 5 0 0
15 20 11 6 0 0
29 19 12 6 0 0
31 19 12 5 1 0
13 19 11 6 1 0
2 19 10 7 1 0
14 18 11 7 1 0
30 17 12 7 1 0
18 16 13 7 1 0
8 16 13 6 2 0
3 16 12 7 2 0
22 15 13 7 2 0 interesting position developing. A lot of 1's have been hitting. But a zero next will create an opportunity
31 15 13 7 1 1 waiting still
14 15 12 8 1 1 gone. Will wait since chance on 1's v >1's
23 15 11 9 1 1 interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet
1 14 12 9 1 1 12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.
22 14 11 10 1 1 win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet 24
18 14 10 11 1 1 it won. I should have bet but didn't because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?
15 14 10 10 2 1 10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.
22 14 10 9 3 1 still no bet
18 14 10 8 4 1 no signals now.
8 14 10 8 3 2
13 14 10 7 4 2 7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue
15 14 10 7 3 3
0 13 11 7 3 3 13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?
34 12 12 7 3 3 12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.
15 12 12 7 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again. -12
1 12 11 8 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt -12
7 12 10 9 3 3 Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting. -12
12 12 9 10 3 3 so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.
6 11 10 10 3 3 now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)
6 11 9 11 3 3 would have been wrong
6 11 9 10 4 3
20 10 10 10 4 3 another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet
23 10 10 9 5 3 again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.
32 23 10 2 2 0
34 23 9 3 2 0
6 23 9 3 1 1
1 23 8 4 1 1
36 22 9 4 1 1
13 22 8 5 1 1
16 21 9 5 1 1
15 21 9 5 0 2
36 21 8 6 0 2
30 20 9 6 0 2
8 20 8 7 0 2
1 20 8 6 1 2
4 19 9 6 1 2 wow - zeros not hitting. 9 v 9 an option. No bet since initial line not even crossed.
28 18 10 6 1 2
15 18 10 6 1 2
25 17 11 6 1 2
31 16 12 6 1 2
23 16 11 7 1 2 11 v 10. 1's not hit in 6 before last. Bet the 1's vs >1's.
36 16 11 6 2 2 lose -11. rebet -11
27 15 12 6 2 2 lose -11. bet gone -11
31 15 11 7 2 2 11 v 11. bet the 11.
6 15 11 7 2 2 lose -11. rebet -11
31 15 11 6 3 2 lose -11 rebet -11
2 14 12 6 3 2 lose -11. Should I have counted first loss when 6 spun as the third loss? -11
11 13 13 6 3 2 I don't like betting on 1's v >1's when 0 and 1's not crossed. Lost -36 bank so reset.
4 21 12 2 2 0
20 20 13 2 2 0
22 19 14 2 2 0
23 19 13 3 2 0
33 18 14 3 2 0
4 18 14 2 3 0
22 18 13 3 3 0
28 18 12 4 3 0
11 18 11 5 3 0
36 18 11 5 2 1
30 18 10 6 2 1 10 v 9 - don't like it when 0 and 1 not crossed
5 17 11 6 2 1 nowt on
15 17 11 5 3 1
15 17 11 5 2 2
17 16 12 5 2 2
13 16 11 6 2 2 11 v 10. again don't like it when 0 and 1 not crossed.
8 16 10 7 2 2 would have won
14 15 11 7 2 2 11 v11
28 15 11 6 3 2 11 v 11
36 15 11 6 3 2 11 v 11 again. Would have been 3 losers if bet
28 15 11 6 2 3
36 15 11 6 2 3
17 15 10 7 2 3
11 15 10 6 3 3
21 14 11 6 3 3 end of spins
TOTAL P&L -34
9 21 12 4 0 0
0 20 13 4 0 0
28 19 14 4 0 0
1 18 15 4 0 0
23 18 14 5 0 0
10 17 15 5 0 0
13 17 14 6 0 0
18 16 15 6 0 0 none greater than 1 = risky but bet the 16
13 16 15 5 1 0 lose 16 rebet -16
13 16 15 5 0 1 lose 16. do not rebet. 2 loss in a row. Retrack -16
28 16 14 6 0 1 maybe shouldn't have bet since no >1 = risky
2 15 15 6 0 1
17 14 16 6 0 1 there is crossing if I had carried on.
this situation appeared three times. I will only explain this:
You´ve lost the first crossing-opportunity. But the theory says "it has to cross". so if the first crossing lost or moved away (e.g. 15-15 : 15-14; 15-13) the next crossing is most likely to hit. so you can always bet that.
25 18 16 3 0 0 Not looking clever. All 1's
34 18 15 4 0 0
30 17 16 4 0 0 don't like it since all 1's and so high odds of 1's hitting. Do not bet.
35 16 17 4 0 0 it wins - but I didn't get involved. No worries. Track on.
too carefully. next time don´t hesitate to bet this.
8 16 16 4 1 0 now interesting situation. Trigger. Few 1's in a row. So zero may hit. No bet but I think I may be wrong
19 16 15 5 1 0 no we have 3 1's hit in a row. I think now is a better bet. But no bet since 0 has failed to cross one 4 times
15 16 14 6 1 0
7 15 15 6 1 0 will retrack but wanted to include this one, since I think it will win.
31 14 16 6 1 0 it wins. I thought it might. But didn't bet
this is the second situation, where a lost attack wins in second crossing-possibility:
loss - 16 -16
bet -16 win 36
total -12
as you see it doesn´t lead to a win but minimizes the loss!!!!!!
23 15 11 9 1 1 interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet
1 14 12 9 1 1 12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.
22 14 11 10 1 1 win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet 24
18 14 10 11 1 1 it won. I should have bet but didn't because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?
very nice decision.
When you look close to this situation it is familiar with the ones before:
first attack looses, second wins.
Your decision to be careful was right. But then you had to take advantage of the next one.
winkel
The next two numbers after the 28 are:
28
32
The 28 is not a mistake; it hit twice.
Sam
When I added up right you had won til here +39 and made a bad decision.
Why didn´t you stop at that time?
23 15 11 9 1 1 interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet
1 14 12 9 1 1 12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.
22 14 11 10 1 1 win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet 24
18 14 10 11 1 1 it won. I should have bet but didn't because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?
15 14 10 10 2 1 10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.
22 14 10 9 3 1 still no bet
18 14 10 8 4 1 no signals now.
8 14 10 8 3 2
13 14 10 7 4 2 7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue
15 14 10 7 3 3
0 13 11 7 3 3 13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?
34 12 12 7 3 3 12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.
15 12 12 7 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again. -12
1 12 11 8 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt -12
7 12 10 9 3 3 Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting. -12
12 12 9 10 3 3 so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.
6 11 10 10 3 3 now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)
6 11 9 11 3 3 would have been wrong
6 11 9 10 4 3
20 10 10 10 4 3 another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet
23 10 10 9 5 3 again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.
The main problem here is that you started betting without having bet the crossing "0" vs "1"!!!!
The Zero´s stayed slow. This is a rare situation in the progressing of an Permanence. because it is rare it is difficult to play.
All in All you cannot make every diecision right, even you have lost 34 Units it is not your ruin. you had won 61 in your first session.
Every time you notice that your decisions are not good or fail it is better to stopp.
You see that with every game you learn. Now you have to learn to stop in a Plus.
br
winkel
PS: If you have a special question to a situation then please ask
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 25, 2008, 07:22:50 PM
winkel
The next two numbers after the 28 are:
28
32
The 28 is not a mistake; it hit twice.
Sam
31 28 14 16 7 6 1
32 28 14 15 8 7 1
33 32 14 14 9 8 1
I bet the 14 please give one new number
thx
winkel
10
missed -14 plus 21 result total +7
an bet 14 again
please one number
the reason why i carry on after i make a bad decision was that i had a string of actuals and therefore i wanted to test against all of the actuals.
i will play the same actuals again in a few days. this is how i test my learning.
i will test different numbers. i will then revisit the above ones and see if i make the same bad decisions or if i have corrected some of my errors.
it is not possible to erradicate all bad decisions. they are part of life. and are only bad decisions if they are repeated over and over and do not contribute to learning....
Hi tuck,
a main idea of this strategy is to find a winning streak by using a "Must-Happen"-Situation.
we always have three possbilities:
1. we win and win and win
2. we win and loose and win and loose
3. we loose and loose and loose and loose and loose
1. and 2. doesn´t bother us.
With 1. we just have to find a stopp before it eats up our wins
with 2. we will get out winning a small amount as long as we bet less than 18 numbers
with 3. the stopp-loss rule is much efficient.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1219749378.gif&hash=8e365f591f2f44d47b93e4cf2293203d8a98f4ba)
In average we play 15 numbers
when you watch at "bankroll" you will see that after 11wins and 11losses and 7losses4wins the sum is about 50. so the area of 50units won is the stopploss of the winning-streak.
br
winkel
22
nice number I´ve won:
tot. +7 -14 +36 = new total +29
31 28 14 16 7 6 1
32 28 14 15 8 7 1
33 32 14 14 9 8 1
34 10 14 14 9 7 2
35 22 13 15 9 7 2
I play with an excel-sheet that gives me a new sheet starting with every new number. So i can see everything thats going on and allows me to jump any length thats possible. No I jump only 1 spin back. That gives me another crossing-situation:
Coups Permanenz R N F F2 F3
1 8 36 1 0 0 0
2 4 35 2 0 0 0
3 23 34 3 0 0 0
4 10 33 4 0 0 0
5 30 32 5 0 0 0
6 6 31 6 0 0 0
7 31 30 7 0 0 0
8 21 29 8 0 0 0
9 35 28 9 0 0 0
10 7 27 10 0 0 0
11 24 26 11 0 0 0
12 10 26 10 1 1 0
13 13 25 11 1 1 0
14 0 24 12 1 1 0
15 20 23 13 1 1 0
16 32 22 14 1 1 0
17 5 21 15 1 1 0
18 2 20 16 1 1 0
19 16 19 17 1 1 0
20 20 19 16 2 2 0
21 24 19 15 3 3 0
22 3 18 16 3 3 0
23 0 18 15 4 4 0
24 12 17 16 4 4 0
25 6 17 15 5 5 0
26 31 17 14 6 6 0
27 3 17 13 7 7 0
28 31 17 13 7 6 1
29 34 16 14 7 6 1
30 28 15 15 7 6 1
31 28 15 14 8 7 1
32 32 15 13 9 8 1
33 10 15 13 9 7 2
34 22 14 14 9 7 2
I do this because the "0" or "r" didnt appear 4times in a row and I bet that they come now more often.
so I bet 14 "0" and please give me one spin.
br
winkel
30
+29-14=+15
missed and bet 14 again
please 1 Spin
10
34 22 14 14 9 7 2
35 30 14 13 10 8 2
36 10 14 13 10 8 2
lost again and stopp of play with result +1
what we see is that all characters show the result of law of the third. But we are missing ">2"
Hi TCS if you give me 3 more spins I bet that there are 2 of them ">1"
br
winkel
23
Can someone post some results of this system, maybe like 100 betting opportunites to see just how effective and easy to use it really is? I'm interested to know the net profit of all the betting opportunities combined over the course of about 100 bets. Can this be programed in the roulette software?
Quote from: madupz4 on August 28, 2008, 09:44:09 AM
Can someone post some results of this system, maybe like 100 betting opportunites to see just how effective and easy to use it really is? I'm interested to know the net profit of all the betting opportunities combined over the course of about 100 bets. Can this be programed in the roulette software?
Why don´t you make up your own results by exercising this strategy to play?
You seem to be one of the people who are offered 1 Million cash, but you will only take it, if someone is carrying home for you.
br
winkel
Could this be modified to play with streets instead of single numbers for quicker tracking and play? For example instead of tracking 37 numbers not appearing, we could track #'s of the 12 streets NOT appearing using the same principles.
For example:
0x 1x 1>x
12 0 0
11 1 0
10 2 0
9 3 0
8 4 0
7 5 0
6 6 0 ...trigger
i have been testing this for small values today online.
my losers are due to my inability to get all my bets down in time. ie - 14 numbers and i only get 12 or 13 down.
i need a better spreadsheet.
bottom line - i would be a winner with a good spreadsheet and this system......
Quote from: madupz4 on August 28, 2008, 05:17:35 PM
Could this be modified to play with streets instead of single numbers for quicker tracking and play? For example instead of tracking 37 numbers not appearing, we could track #'s of the 12 streets NOT appearing using the same principles.
For example:
0x 1x 1>x
12 0 0
11 1 0
10 2 0
9 3 0
8 4 0
7 5 0
6 6 0 ...trigger
won´t work thats for sure. I t only works on Plein
Quote from: madupz4 on August 28, 2008, 09:44:09 AM
Can someone post some results of this system, maybe like 100 betting opportunites to see just how effective and easy to use it really is? I'm interested to know the net profit of all the betting opportunities combined over the course of about 100 bets.
Hey mad, I am doing just this, I am about 3/4 of the way through. I will post the results in a couple of days.
Quote from: tucktuckster on August 28, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
i have been testing this for small values today online.
my losers are due to my inability to get all my bets down in time. ie - 14 numbers and I only get 12 or 13 down.
i need a better spreadsheet.
bottom line - I would be a winner with a good spreadsheet and this system......
tucktuckster, during my testing, RNG and real wheel numbers are working exactly the same. It doesn't seem to matter where the numbers come from!?!
30 spins +26
have anyone tryed, if this is more you play more you earn.. Or does someone have fast rng, my rx expired :) and I will test myself
i might test this on a rng at some point later for small values to see if rng is the same.
testing with past rng actuals is different to testing with live rng if you see what i mean. past rng actuals doesnt know what numbers will give you a win for it to avoid them.....
I know, I have no intention to play on rng for real money :)
RNG only for tests
hey winkel
if you bet x1 in relation to 2x
if one of 0x number come up do you add that number for next bet?
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 29, 2008, 03:07:22 PM
hey winkel
if you bet x1 in relation to 2x
if one of 0x number come up do you add that number for next bet?
Yes, but there must be still a trigger:
e.g. 10-10 forms to 11-10
no if 11-10 turns to 12-10
br
winkel
so if there os 12-10 you dont play at all, I though that you play for 3 spins because of 11numbers..
hi Boo_Ray,
when we meet a crossing there are following possibilities
10-10
9-11 win
10-10
10-10
10-10
10-10
three losses and stopp
10-10
11-10 loss and bet new trigger 11-10
12-10 loss and stopp because no trigger anymore
Rules
play only difference 0 or 1
stopp playing when difference >1
stopp playing when win cannot push you to plus
these are all rules of the game
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on August 20, 2008, 09:42:05 AM
This is one of my ultimate systems that win flat bet, no progression needed.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.zufallsforschung.de%2FBilder%2FVerteilung-RNF_Grafik1.gif&hash=076dd64de8be120ceaa15bdbf27934c67fc76743)
as you see in this picture there is one thing for sure: The Lines have to cross!
to play that is very simple.
You can start at any point, at any casino, at any table.
First the basics:
We know at the first spin there has to appear one number, so we count:
36 not appeared - 1 appeared
35 - 2
34 - 3 etc.
then we might come to this point:
19 - 18
now we bet the 19 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 18 - 19
during the spins we bet when the following combinations appear:
19 - 18
18 - 17
17 - 17
17 - 16
16 - 16
16 - 15
15 - 15
15 - 14
14 - 14
14 - 13
etc.
the difference between appeared and not appeared numbers has to be 0 or 1.
The second bet situation:
we have numbers that appeared once and numbers that appeared more than once:
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared once.
The third situation to bet:
We have numbers that appeared twice and numbers that appeared more than twice.
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice.
if we have to bet 19 or 18, we just bet once
if we have to bet less than 18, then we bet as often as there is a win or 0 possible:
17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice
12 to 10 - we bet three times
9 to 8 - we bet four times
do you get the idea?
br
winkel
Hello Winkel. To me this seem to be mirrors. Each number has a mirrornumber. So 1 has 36, 2 has 35 and so on up to 17->20. Then it reverse to 21->16, 22->15 again and so on, back to 36->1. So we are betting that last mirrornumbers that has not hit?
Thank you
Cheers
/Compa
Quote from: Compa on August 29, 2008, 08:59:09 PM
Quote from: winkel on August 20, 2008, 09:42:05 AM
This is one of my ultimate systems that win flat bet, no progression needed.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.zufallsforschung.de%2FBilder%2FVerteilung-RNF_Grafik1.gif&hash=076dd64de8be120ceaa15bdbf27934c67fc76743)
as you see in this picture there is one thing for sure: The Lines have to cross!
to play that is very simple.
You can start at any point, at any casino, at any table.
First the basics:
We know at the first spin there has to appear one number, so we count:
36 not appeared - 1 appeared
35 - 2
34 - 3 etc.
then we might come to this point:
19 - 18
now we bet the 19 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 18 - 19
during the spins we bet when the following combinations appear:
19 - 18
18 - 17
17 - 17
17 - 16
16 - 16
16 - 15
15 - 15
15 - 14
14 - 14
14 - 13
etc.
the difference between appeared and not appeared numbers has to be 0 or 1.
The second bet situation:
we have numbers that appeared once and numbers that appeared more than once:
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared once.
The third situation to bet:
We have numbers that appeared twice and numbers that appeared more than twice.
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice.
if we have to bet 19 or 18, we just bet once
if we have to bet less than 18, then we bet as often as there is a win or 0 possible:
17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice
12 to 10 - we bet three times
9 to 8 - we bet four times
do you get the idea?
br
winkel
Hello Winkel. To me this seem to be mirrors. Each number has a mirrornumber. So 1 has 36, 2 has 35 and so on up to 17->20. Then it reverse to 21->16, 22->15 again and so on, back to 36->1. So we are betting that last mirrornumbers that has not hit?
Thank you
Cheers
/Compa
As long as they mirrors not smoke and mirrors ;D :D ;D :D
Quote from: winkel on August 29, 2008, 06:20:58 PM
hi Boo_Ray,
when we meet a crossing there are following possibilities
10-10
9-11 win
10-10
10-10
10-10
10-10
three losses and stopp
10-10
11-10 loss and bet new trigger 11-10
12-10 loss and stopp because no trigger anymore
Rules
play only difference 0 or 1
stopp playing when difference >1
stopp playing when win cannot push you to plus
these are all rules of the game
br
winkel
thanks winkel,
I was testing wrong at beginning then, maybe that cause one -66 run
will do more tests
cya
I think that after 15 pages of this crap
it's time to admit it was a joke and move
on to something else.
Quote from: bjb007 on August 30, 2008, 06:38:06 AM
I think that after 15 pages of this crap
it's time to admit it was a joke and move
on to something else.
o.k move to something else, and show us what you have..
btw just had a test and had a +128 units in 39spins (test with real money)
bjb either you don't understeand this method or you a re full of yourself..
keep away if you don't like it
or give us some of your results and prove us
I don't like to argue o.k? but show some respect or atleast be quiet, I dont want that this will be moved to pit..
Best thing to do is that moderator delete bjbs post and this post..
cya
peace
i totally agree with Booray
NTM from France
I have attached a spreadsheet with 100 tests using winkle's system. I tried to keep it a simple as possible with the following rules:
Only track 0x and 1x.
Flat bet.
Stop on 1st win and re-track.
Stop if lose 4 bets and re-track.
Only bet 17 or less numbers.
I am sure this was not the optimum way to test this system, but it is how I started to test it and I did not expect it to go so well.
The stats are:
+333 units
POT - 12%
S/R - 72%
Ave win per game 3.3
It took a bit of a nose dive at the end but all in all, pretty good!!
thank you for posting your exel spreedsheet
very good work
very precise
with a lot of informations
your maximum drawdown was 98 dollar?
@winlel
can you comment this way of playing your strategy
You're probably right about my lack of
understanding.
What I do understand is that there will
eventually be X numbers hit and X-1
not hit - or is it X+1? Both are possible.
Nothing new there.
Then more numbers will hit.
Nothing new there.
But what use is this well-known info?
How does it indicate a number to bet on?
Anyone?
what shall I comment?
I just gave the point where to bet. The rules are simple.
I never said it wins always. But it wins that often that you will never loose your bankroll of 200 units.
You have to make 12 wrong decisions on 17 numbers (=204 units) to loose your bankroll. you will never find such a long Loosing-streak. Thats all!
The longer you play this, you will find other hints that will make your decisions to bet better.
(see other posts in this thread.)
br
winkel
read his first post, It is easy to understeand, try to chart for yourself and you will get it
Quote from: bjb007 on August 30, 2008, 08:09:45 AM
You're probably right about my lack of
understanding.
What I do understand is that there will
eventually be X numbers hit and X-1
not hit - or is it X+1? Both are possible.
Nothing new there.
Then more numbers will hit.
Nothing new there.
But what use is this well-known info?
How does it indicate a number to bet on?
Anyone?
You´d better read again from the start.
You didn´t got any idea of this strategy
br
winkel
Guten Tag dr. winkel. Thank You for posting this system in the first place! (Sehr gut!)
1. Is this based on mirror numbers? 1 =mirror 36, 2 = mirror 35 and so on.
2.Shall we track the mirrornumbers that has not hit? So if 1 hit we will bet 36, because it did not hit,,and so on..?
3. Can you make an explanation (for dummies) with specific numbers and what to do with them? (except win on them)
Thank You
/Compa
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/gut-tracker/msg18635/#msg18635 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/gut-tracker/msg18635/#msg18635)
please use this little program
it shows which numbers to bet. It doesn´t refer to any mirroring. You´ve mixed up the counting of numbers to bet with the actual numbers on the wheel.
br
winkel
Dissenting opinions should not be modified or deleted. I don't always agree with bj, but he is polite and I can't recall him making personal statements. The word "crap" is not that bad and if you took that out, you would have a pure dissenting opinion.
We should all have the right to respectfully disagree.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 30, 2008, 10:53:35 AM
Dissenting opinions should not be modified or deleted. I don't always agree with bj, but he is polite and I can't recall him making personal statements. The word "crap" is not that bad and if you took that out, you would have a pure dissenting opinion.
We should all have the right to respectfully disagree.
Sam
Very True Sam but disenting for sake of disenting is rubbish if he wants prove that it dont work then let him but at least show us some evidence there are to many testers in here proving this thing is working
Winkel isnt selling anything he put up his method free of charge i think he should keep comments to himself saying it crap and all .like i said show us the evidence of it failing somewhere
Who believes that it doesnt work because so far at least it is proving itself with good results
I thank you Winkel for your idea, win lose or draw but I think it win not lose or draw
Anyhow my 2 cents worth
Regards Rodney
Natural
Let's examine this: disenting for sake of disenting is rubbish
Someone has to be put in the position of deciding he is dissenting just to be a dissenter. Maybe he is; maybe he isn't. And what if he is?
Words can spur people on to greatness!
Someone criticized Michael Phelps during the Olympics. He stated that the criticism just firmed his resolve.
We all know when a new idea comes along, someone is going to poo-poo it. Ever hear of "Fulton's Folly"? But steamboats became a reality. Did you know Elias Howe invented the sewing machine because his wife complained so about hand stitching?
I'd love for these Joe Negative's to say, "Well, that won't work but this will."
But, hey, let's face reality!! If someone found the "Holy Grail", what would we do to amuse ourselves??
Oh, yeah, there is that pesky perpetual motion machine......
Sam
@all
in all public forums around the world it´s all the same:
There´s always someone who spreads in every thread that nothing will work.
There´s always someone who doesn´t understand anything even if the rule is: Bet always on Red
There´s always someone who appears after 2500 posts: Can anyone explain it to me
There´s always someone who appears after 2500 tests: can anyone proof that it is winning
There´s always someone who appears asking for a code for it written for free by someone else
There´s always someone who appears and is blaming the author being a burglar
And at least there is someone is is bored of all this: That´s me!
I never forced someone to read this
I never asked for money
I never spammed anyone by mail or PM
I gave always everything for free
I didn´t never ever hide any hint that is necessary for the game
I´ve answered always every sensefull question
Who wants to test it, may test it
Who wants to play it, may play it
Who wants to proof it, may proof it (winning or loosing)
so what?
winkel
winkel
You ARE appreciated! Your work is appreciated. Your sharing, teaching attitude is appreciated. I agree, there are some people so lazy if you gave them the "Holy Grail" they would gripe because they had to drive to the local casino or log onto the computer.
But MOST of us are not that way. There are some hard workers on these forums who put in a lot of hours. They are your students.
Sam
Hi Winkel,
I'm a new member here , so its not as if my words carry much weight yet. I just wanted to say that the time and effort that you put into this system is absolutely awesome. It is even better that you don't charge for the system. Also you have patiently been taking your personal time to answer our questions! You are truely a stand up guy!
I just wanted to say thank you!
Coxx16
Disent for the sake of disenting?
Not me.
What I see is a lot of posts from people
trying to understand this "system" and
not doing so.
Seems that if it had some logical basis it
would be easy to understand.
Got to be something wrong if it takes fifteen
pages to get the message across.
Quote from: bjb007 on August 30, 2008, 01:19:55 PM
Disent for the sake of disenting?
Not me.
What I see is a lot of posts from people
trying to understand this "system" and
not doing so.
Seems that if it had some logical basis it
would be easy to understand.
Got to be something wrong if it takes fifteen
pages to get the message across.
If people post they wouldn´t understand and don´t read the first artikel of this thread I can´t help anyway.
"I don´t understand" is not a question. Only questions can be answered.
Maybe it is so complicate to some people because it is pure logic.
so for You and all others the first post again in most simple words:
we have 37(38) numbers on the wheel. OK?
after the first spin we have 1 appeared and 36(37) not appeared (thats logical enough?)
with the second spin we count again
if a second number appeares we have 2 and 35(36) if the same number comes again we still have 1-36! do you agree and understand?
If you proceed this counting you will get at any time druing wathing a situation where you have
19 numbers that didn´t appear yet, and 18 numbers that have appeared once or more. Is that believable?
This is the first possible "crossing", but is not recommended to play.
All possible crossing that can be played:
18-17
17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15
please get the logic in it and fill the row by yourself downwords to 1-0
we have these crossings between
0 - 1 (numbers did´t appeare and numbers appeared "once") also called "0" or "R" and N or "1"
0 - >0 numbers that did´nt appear and numbers that appeared) once and more than once
1 - >1 numbers appeared once and numbers appeared more than once
2 - >2 numbers appeared twice and numbers appeared more than twice.
We bet when a crossing is in sight.
a crossing is in sight, when the difference between two charcteristics is 0 or 1 (see list above)
so what did you not understand?
Please ask?
Where are you missing the logic?
Did you use the programm I gave the link on top of this page?
Did you see the diagram of the binomial deviation? Do you know what this is?
Can you read a diagram?
Did you see the crossings between the lines?
Can you speak and read English?
This is a test of 100 permanences.
the result of the first 50 is this:
The results are strictly made by this rules:
played is always only the first crossing after crossing 19-18
played until win
played maximum bet-length (2x or 3x - see above)
19-18proof : this is to show why this cross is not recommended for betting
Perm 1.Cross w/l tot 19-18 proof
1 10N-9F 26 26 win in 2.
2 9N-8F 18 44 win in 2.
3 9N-8F -9 35 win in 2.
4 11R-10N 25 60 win in 2.
5 11N-10F 25 85 win in 2.
6 11N-10F -11 74 win in 2.
7 14R-14N -28 46 win in 2.
8 14R-13N -14 32 win in 2.
9 15R-14N -15 17 win in 2.
10 15R-14N -15 2 win in 2.
11 15R-14N -15 -13 win in 2.
12 11N-11F 3 -10 win in 1.
13 11N-11F 14 4 win in 1.
14 10N-9F 15 19 win in 2.
15 10N-10F 4 23 win in 1.
16 11N-10F -22 1 win in 1.
17 11N-10F -22 -21 win in 1.
18 14R-14N 22 1 win in 1.
19 15R-14N 21 22 win in 1.
20 15R-14N 21 43 win in 1.
21 16R-15N -32 11 win in 1.
22 15R-14N 21 32 win in 3.
23 15R-14N 6 38 win in 3.
24 15R-14N 6 44 win in 3.
25 15R-15N 6 50 win in 3.
26 15R-15N 6 56 win in 4.
27 16R-15N 4 60 win in 4.
28 16R-15N 4 64 win in 1.
29 16R-15N 20 84 win in 1.
30 16R-16N 20 104 win in 1.
31 17R-16N 2 106 win in 1.
32 17R-16N 19 125 win in 2.
33 17R-16N 19 144 win in 2.
34 17R-16N 19 163 win in 2.
35 17R-16N 19 182 win in 1.
36 17R-16N 19 201 win in 1.
37 17R-16N 19 220 win in 1.
38 17R-16N -17 203 win in 1.
39 17R-16N 19 222 win in 1.
40 17R-16N -17 205 win in 1.
41 17R-17N 2 207 win in 1.
42 17R-16N -17 190 win in 1.
43 16R-15N 20 210 win in 2.
44 16R-15N 20 230 win in 2.
45 16R-15N 20 250 win in 3.
46 16R-15N 20 270 win in 3.
47 16R-16N 20 290 win in 1.
48 16R-16N 20 310 win in 2.
49 17R-16N 19 329 win in 2.
50 17R-17N 19 348 win in 2.
Hi, thanks for the system!
I'd like to improve my little program. Which crossings have the most importance, so I can display just them? So far I've noticed these appear most frequently:
between 0 and >=1
between 0 and =1
between 1 and >=2
Are there any others?
Hi droidman,
first of all thanks for your program. Your selection is right. Perhaps add this one: "0" and ">1" (R vs F) the group to play is "0" or "R"
But here the next 44 perms (I ran out of numbers so I didn´t get to 100, sorry.
51 17R-17N 19 367 win in 1.
52 18R-17N 18 385 win in 1.
53 18R-18N 18 403 win in 1.
54 18R-18N 18 421 win in 1.
55 18R-18N -36 385 win in 1.
56 18R-18N -36 349 win in 1.
57 17R-17N 19 368 win in 4.
58 17R-17N 2 370 win in 1.
59 17R-16N 19 389 win in 1.
60 17R-16N -17 372 win in 2.
61 17R-16N -17 355 win in 2.
62 16R-15N 20 375 win in 1.
63 17R-16N -17 358 win in 1.
64 17R-16N 19 377 win in 2.
65 17R-17N 19 396 win in 2.
66 17R-17N 19 415 win in 1.
67 17R-17N 19 434 win in 1.
68 17R-17N 19 453 win in 1.
69 18R-17N 18 471 win in 1.
70 18R-18N 18 489 win in 1.
71 18R-18N 18 507 win in 1.
72 11R-10F 14 521 win in 1.
73 16R-16N 4 525 win in 1.
74 18R-18N 18 543 win in 1.
75 18R-18N -36 507 win in 2.
76 11N-11F 1 508 win in 6.
77 16R-15N -16 492 win in 4.
78 11N-10F -11 481 win in 2.
79 14R-13N 22 503 win in 2.
80 14R-13N 22 525 win in 2.
81 11N-10F -33 492 win in 5.
82 11N-10F -33 459 win in 4.
83 14R-14N 22 481 win in 5.
84 15R-14N 21 502 win in 5.
85 15R-15N 21 523 win in 1.
86 15R-15N 21 544 win in 3.
87 15R-15N 21 565 win in 2.
88 15R-15N 21 586 win in 2.
89 15R-15N -30 556 win in 3.
90 15R-15N -30 526 win in 3.
91 15R-15N -30 496 win in 1.
92 15R-14N 21 517 win in 1.
93 15R-14N -15 502 win in 1.
94 15R-14N -15 487 win in 1.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1220139224.gif&hash=434cbb2e813eede6d60f579ed73c1e1879a267f9)
Winkel,
I practiced with your software last night for 2+ hrs and I was never able to make any progress. I would win, then my losses would wipe out any profits and I was constantly running in place. I would have a win, then I would get to 17-17 lose, then I would get to 17-16 and lose again. I would then reset to previous 18 numbers and I would get a win at 17-16, then I would wait and later get to back to back losses at 15-15 then 15-14. It went on like this over and over and I was never able to get ahead. What am I doing wrong here?
Hi mad,
please give me the numbers you played with, otherwise I cannot explain.
br
winkel
Winkel,
This is one example where I would win and be in the positive, but then end up right back where I started. This happened several times but this is my only recorded example of the event.
number result 0 1 2 3 >3
1 29 36 1
2 12 35 2
3 5 34 3
4 4 33 4
5 31 32 5
6 36 31 6
7 24 30 7
8 22 29 8
9 18 28 9
10 3 27 10
11 33 26 11
12 6 25 12
13 31 25 11 1
14 4 25 10 2
15 12 25 9 3
16 7 24 10 3
17 20 23 11 3
18 3 23 10 4
19 1 22 11 4
20 30 21 12 4
21 14 20 13 4
22 32 19 14 4
23 36 19 13 5
24 25 18 14 5
25 2 17 15 5
26 2 17 14 6
27 0 16 15 6
28 33 16 14 7
29 17 15 15 7 bet
30 23 14 16 7 win
31 12 14 16 6 1
32 0 14 15 7 1
33 20 14 14 8 1 bet
24 27 13 15 8 1 win
35 32 13 14 9 1
36 34 12 15 9 1
37 30 12 14 10 1
38 32 12 14 9 2
39 20 12 14 8 3
40 10 11 15 8 3
41 10 11 14 9 3
42 30 11 14 8 4
43 23 11 13 9 4 bet 13v13(1v >1)
44 3 11 13 8 5 lost bet 13v13 again(1v>1)
45 8 10 14 8 5 back to original balance
Again, I ask why we are not using the comma-delimited format Victor designed? It is actually easier to use than trying to space things out.
mad, your post is almost totally unreadable. Why should someone spend time trying to line things up when you could have done it in the beginning?
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/easy-tables-implemented (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/general-board/easy-tables-implemented)!-(create-tables-by-comma-separated-values)/
Mr. Chips has used this format and his posts are easy to read.
How long does it take to type this thing and hit the comma?
Could we ALL please consider using this table?
Sam
Here's what it could look like:
[table=,]
number,result,0,1,2,3,>3
1,29,36,1
2,12,3,5,2
3,5,34,3
3,2,3,4,5,6,7
[/table]
TCS,
I was looking for that table in the first place but your link takes you to another page where I still can't find it, and I didn't space my results out, i simply used microsoft excel and it spaces it out for you. Give me the DIRECT link to the tables you want used.
Hi madzup,
I don´t really see your problem:
you win the first two bets to end up with +43
then you loose a bet with -26 and end up with total +17
I you win two bets in a row, why don´t you just skip and restart?
You can´t bet on a "winning-forever-streak"
+43 should be enough for one session
The earlier we are in the progress of our watched spins, the easier is playing and winning.
br
winkel
mad
Here is the formula/syntax or whatever it's called:
[escape]
[table=,]
then,type,your,data,with,commas
see,how,it,aligns,up,?
[/table]
[/escape]
Now I will show you how it looks:
[table=,]
then,type,your,data,with,commas
see,how,it,aligns,up,?
[/table]
How is the testing so far Sam, winning?
I am not testing this system at the present.
I am going to limit myself to the 4Selecta and a couple others. I am spreading myself too thin.
Sam
Quote from: winkel on August 31, 2008, 12:37:46 PM
Hi madzup,
I don´t really see your problem:
you win the first two bets to end up with +43
then you loose a bet with -26 and end up with total +17
I you win two bets in a row, why don´t you just skip and restart?
You can´t bet on a "winning-forever-streak"
+43 should be enough for one session
The earlier we are in the progress of our watched spins, the easier is playing and winning.
br
winkel
Winkel.
I finished the above session with +1 not + 17 (sorry I didn't note another loss at spin #45, but #44 and #45 were both losses).
So are you saying, once I get into profit, it would be more beneficial to retrack a new 18 to get a new trigger? If this is the case, suppose we get to 17-17 and lose (now we are down -17) then we have 17-16 and lose again. ( now we are down -34) What would you do at this point, retrack a new 18 numbers to get a new trigger or keep going looking for another trigger maybe 16-16?
Suppose you already have 2 back to back losses, and now we have another trigger and you lose again (-16), now we are down a total of
-47. It will now take 3 consecutive wins just to brake even. What happens if we have a few more consecutive losses? How do we overcome this? I'm almost there just need a little clarification.
Thanks for your patience.
Hi mad,
please look at my 94 perm-results.
There are also 4 or 5 losses in row they go down -80 sometimes. We just have to accept this to happen.
We also have to accept, that we have 4 or 5 wins in a row.
Do you play only the crossing with 17 you will only have +8 or +10, but wou won´t have dragged into hell.
If you test some days of casino-spin-actuals you will get sure, that you will overcome this period.
It will never happen that you loose your starting-bankroll.
br
winkel
Hello. I have just looked into the software. But sorry to say i do not understand how to use it. I must be a complete Idiot since there is no such a question as ; " I do not understand" .My apologies.
/Compa
compa, look at the graphs and program. In program you can se apearences and at the graph you can see crossings.
imagine that when 12-11 becomes 11-12 the lines cross. just check the very first post and you will see, try not to use program and chart for your self, you will get picture and notice that it is realy simple logic ;)
open the software
type the first number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
type the next number and press enter
if then the rows show a possible crossing bet the numbers that are written above next to the characteristic of 0 1 2 3 etc.
any further questions?
Quote from: winkel on August 31, 2008, 04:00:08 PM
Hi mad,
please look at my 94 perm-results.
There are also 4 or 5 losses in row they go down -80 sometimes. We just have to accept this to happen.
We also have to accept, that we have 4 or 5 wins in a row.
Do you play only the crossing with 17 you will only have +8 or +10, but wou won´t have dragged into hell.
If you test some days of casino-spin-actuals you will get sure, that you will overcome this period.
It will never happen that you loose your starting-bankroll.
br
winkel
Winkel,
I understand we will dip into the negative, so my question is... after 2 consecutive losses where we are down -34 (-17, -17) is it best to continue on hoping to get to the 17-16 trigger and bet again and risk losing OR would it be better at this point to regress and back track 18 spins and track new numbers and start over from the middle?
Hi madupz,
My answer to this will sound crazy:
any decision you make at this point can be wrong or can be right.
Simply: I don´t know it. Just go through.
If I knew it I would be a magician.
br
winkel
here is my test of around 400 spins sadly I droped in the end
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 31, 2008, 04:52:58 PM
compa, look at the graphs and program. In program you can se apearences and at the graph you can see crossings.
imagine that when 12-11 becomes 11-12 the lines cross. just check the very first post and you will see, try not to use program and chart for your self, you will get picture and notice that it is realy simple logic ;)
Dear Boo. Thanks for the reply.
Here are some numbers. What do I bet?
----------------
HIT NO HIT
----------------
27 10
36 1
25 12
4 33
19 1816 21
3 34
11
23 14
27 10
7 30
32 5
34 3
16 21
5 32
------------
Cheers
/Compa
you are doing it wrong
you dont check actual numbers
if 0 comes up(or any other number) the first spin that means you have 36 unhit numbers and 1 hitted...
when you have .... lets say 17unhited numbers and 16 numbers hitted once... you bet 17 unhited numbers to have crossing between hitted and unhited numbers... more spins more numbers will hit
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 31, 2008, 06:59:10 PM
you are doing it wrong
you dont check actual numbers
if 0 comes up(or any other number) the first spin that means you have 36 unhit numbers and 1 hitted...
when you have .... lets say 17unhited numbers and 16 numbers hitted once... you bet 17 unhited numbers to have crossing between hitted and unhited numbers... more spins more numbers will hit
LOOOOOOOOOL!!! ;D
Listen GUYS!!!
If you want to present a method/system here on the Board. You MUST be comprehensive. Roulette is about Numbers.
I post numbers and I am told this is not about numbers. A full presentation, if want to make it Public, includes a step-by-step explanation and a comprehensive walktrough of the Idea. Remember that our brains are constructed differently.
So: 36+0 numbers = 37 numbers. When 24 numbers hit and 13 did not, bet these 13 numbers. Dead simple, if this is the case. Whats the need of 19 pages of "How do we do this" ?????????+
Thanks
/Compa
Quote from: Compa on August 31, 2008, 07:09:04 PM
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 31, 2008, 06:59:10 PM
you are doing it wrong
you dont check actual numbers
if 0 comes up(or any other number) the first spin that means you have 36 unhit numbers and 1 hitted...
when you have .... lets say 17unhited numbers and 16 numbers hitted once... you bet 17 unhited numbers to have crossing between hitted and unhited numbers... more spins more numbers will hit
LOOOOOOOOOL!!! ;D
Listen GUYS!!!
If you want to present a method/system here on the Board. You MUST be comprehensive. Roulette is about Numbers.
I post numbers and I am told this is not about numbers. A full presentation, if want to make it Public, includes a step-by-step explanation and a comprehensive walktrough of the Idea. Remember that our brains are constructed differently.
Thanks
/Compa
our brains sure are diferent :) I will go to bed now I think I didnt got it what you are trying to say :)
Quote from: Compa on August 31, 2008, 07:09:04 PM
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 31, 2008, 06:59:10 PM
you are doing it wrong
you dont check actual numbers
if 0 comes up(or any other number) the first spin that means you have 36 unhit numbers and 1 hitted...
when you have .... lets say 17unhited numbers and 16 numbers hitted once... you bet 17 unhited numbers to have crossing between hitted and unhited numbers... more spins more numbers will hit
LOOOOOOOOOL!!! ;D
Listen GUYS!!!
If you want to present a method/system here on the Board. You MUST be comprehensive. Roulette is about Numbers.
I post numbers and I am told this is not about numbers. A full presentation, if want to make it Public, includes a step-by-step explanation and a comprehensive walktrough of the Idea. Remember that our brains are constructed differently.
So: 36+0 numbers = 37 numbers. When 24 numbers hit and 13 did not, bet these 13 numbers. Dead simple, if this is the case. Whats the need of 19 pages of "How do we do this" ?????????+
Thanks
/Compa
You need to chart the numbers as they hit you have crossing over columns and thats where the bet is
I find hard keep track of numbers that hit because you always backtracking after each spin to wsee if number has hit 1 ,2 or 3 or more times
The spreadsheet should handle that good tho
Regards Rodney
winkel
I fell about laughing when I read your joke
about whether I could read English.
English is my native language so I read it
very well (and write it and speak it too) so
that's not the problem.
I think the the "problem" is that you believe
your posts are written in English (which is
obviously
not your native tongue) when
they are in fact in a language of your own
invention.
For example "permanences" is not a word in the
English language. Nor is "appeare", nor is "did't"
just to give a few examples.
Quote0 - 1 (numbers did´t appeare and numbers appeared "once") also called "0" or "R" and N or "1"
Why have two ways of indicating hit or unhit numbers?
One is enough. Why not "H" for hit and "U" for unhit?
Perhaps the saying that "A German joke is no laughing matter"
applies here.
Quote from: winkel on August 31, 2008, 06:12:18 PM
Hi madupz,
My answer to this will sound crazy:
any decision you make at this point can be wrong or can be right.
Simply: I don´t know it. Just go through.
If I knew it I would be a magician.
br
winkel
Winkel,
If someone doesn't know what is best to do at this critical point which happens quite often, then how can someone be successfull using this system? It's almost like it's left up to chance or the flip of a coin, there is no clear cut directions on what exaclty to do? I'm not sure if after 2 consecutive losses if I should keep going trying to recoup my losses, or if I should start over and retrack, I do not know what is the best route to take. I have tried both ways and both ways did not produce very positive results.
Quote from: madupz4 on August 31, 2008, 09:36:51 PM
Winkel,
If someone doesn't know what is best to do at this critical point which happens quite often, then how can someone be successfull using this system? It's almost like it's left up to chance or the flip of a coin, there is no clear cut directions on what exaclty to do? I'm not sure if after 2 consecutive losses if I should keep going trying to recoup my losses, or if I should start over and retrack, I do not know what is the best route to take. I have tried both ways and both ways did not produce very positive results.
Hi madupz,
I think my English isn´t good enough to explain this, but I try:
It is law of probabilities that if we play constantly a certain amount of numbers we will have a hit in x/37 or in your example in 17/37 or 49.95%, which leads us to loose the amount of the house-edge.
Why does this system win?
we don´t play constantly 17 numbers. sometimes we play 15 or 13 or even 10 numbers.
we don´t play constantly. Only if there is a crossing in sight.
If there is a crossing the probability of success is higher than in a constant bet.
I cannot express this in a percentage.
The reason is in this:
If we have 37 spins, sometimes there only 15 numbers hit or 33 numbers hit. these are the extreme edges of statistics.
If we have only 15 numbers that hit, we will have many repeaters and we will only find the crossing in 19-18
If we have 33 numbers that hit, we will also only have this crossing.
Only if the progression follows nearly the way of the binomial distribution we will find crossings to bet. and as we do that, we will win, because the crossings have to cross, otherwise the numbers are not following the binomial distribution.
I hope you can get what I mean.
br
winkel
Quote from: bjb007 on August 31, 2008, 09:09:35 PM
Quote0 - 1 (numbers did´t appeare and numbers appeared "once") also called "0" or "R" and N or "1"
Why have two ways of indicating hit or unhit numbers?
One is enough. Why not "H" for hit and "U" for unhit?
Now you found that my personal abilities to speak your language proof that my strategy is worth nothing! Congratulations!
To your question: all my statistics and tools are written with the german abbreviations R N F
R = Restanten =sleepers = unhit numbers = "0"
N = Normalos = numbers came once = "1"
F = Favoriten = numbers that hit more than once = ">1"
that´s the origin.
As we Germans try to learn other languages and try to get in discussion with native English-speakers they themselves think they are the Best of the world and don´t need to learn other languages. so they have the Right to laugh about us Germans, but we know we´ve invented nearly everything that made the world progress.
Let's not let this get racist fellas!
It does not matter where we come from, we are all battling the same enemy. The roulette wheel.
winkel has been kind enough to share his system and has explained it well enough for anybody to play if they care to read and do some tests themselves!
winkel
Wasn't trying to deprecate your way
of using the English language but pointing
out that it's by no means "Standard English"
so the blame for not understanding isn't
entirely mine.
My numerous attempts to learn another
language over the past 50 years have all
ended in failure although I did find a few words
of BBC German very useful in 1973.
"Zwie grosse bier, bitte" on a very hot day
in Frankfurt after a tiring coach journed of
nine hours was the pinnacle of my linguistic
adventures.
Anyway, for ingoramuses like me perhaps it would
be useful to provide the meanings of the words
which need expanation for us "foreigners".
Winkel,
It's all starting to come together for me now, almost like "I can see the light!" I re-read all of your postings and hints and caught things that are very important that I missed the first few times around. Before tonight I was losing at playing your system, then other times I would win and lose and not be able to gain any ground. Tonight I won and won and won and never looked back! I played for 35 minutes and I was up over $145 using $1.00 bets. I only lost 4 times but 3 of those times I recovered on the very next spin. Your right when you say this system protects your bankroll! I earned $145.00 in 35 minutes of work, imagine if I was playing $5.00 chips....I would be up $725, NOT bad for FLAT betting with NO progression!
What really turned my success around was using all 4 of these triggers:
0 vs 1
1 vs >1
0 vs >1
1 vs 2
Before I was only using 0 vs 1, and sometimes 1 vs >1, but by paying attention and using the software it was easy to find all 4 triggers. My first trigger was always 0 vs. 1 followed by 0 vs. >1, followed by 1 vs. 1, followed by 1 vs. 2. Then I would reset and track 37 new numbers and start the process all over again. I will keep testing and let you know my progress!
Could someone do these numbers for me not sure I got it right yet
24
17
36
4
11
19
33
9
11
4
20
17
0
31
1
4
3
34
30
7
14
28
13
21
4
30
7
24
26
35
29
36
36
0
36
20
33
9
31
7
5
19
34
36
28
23
20
13
28
5
Regards Rodney
Winkel,
Here are some of my thoughts based arouns the testing that I have done. Please can you comment on these situations and how you handle.
1) If the 0 v 1 crossing is before spin 25 - It is very dangerous to play. I think maybe best not to.
2) If the 1 v >1 crossing flashes before 0 v 1 - I tend not to play because this is not a normal situation. Often it fails. However - if it continues to appear as a signal it tends to win on 3rd or 4th signal?
3) How do you handle situations where the 0 is 13 and the 1 is 13 and a 1 lands? Does this become a new signal or is it still 2 plays and stop. example below
13 v 13 Signal and bet.
loses as a 1 lands
13 v 12 signal and bet.
loses asa >1 lands.
Is this 2 losses and stop? or do you bet on since you have only had 1 loss at signal 13 v12.
4) In instances where the 0 v 1 crossing is very late - ie 13 v 13 is first flash and it is late on spin 40 or so - i have found results quite poor since numbers >1 seem to be repeating. do you still play or not?
5) If you get a situation after spin 37, where 0 is 14 and 1 is say 15. Then after spin 44 0 is still 14 and 1 falls to 14- you have a signal to bet. it wins. spin 45 becomes 13 for 0 and 15 for 1's. In my experience after such a run of no hits in 0, they tend to hit again. would you replay the 13 expecting another hit?
6) If the 1 v >1 crosses early on - say spin 20 before any other crossing - i will wait and see what happens. If the 1 v >1 runs away and starts being silly such as this
0 1 >1
16 7 14
then i tend to restart
however - if the 1 v >1 is crossed but then corrects - i tend to carry on tracking to see where 0 v 1 is going to cross. If it is around spin 25 to 35, then i proceed and play. is this okay?
Quote
You need to chart the numbers as they hit you have crossing over columns and thats where the bet is
Hi. Please clearify and define this statment. I do not understand the content of it. "Crossing" over columns??
It seems that my mainproblem is the understandment of the term "Crossing". When does the numbers cross. And where?
!8 numbers hit, 19 did not at this point. Do i bet 19 numbers here?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is a sketch of a situation i have:
THE WHEEL 2 3 6 9 11 12 <--------------19 Unhit Numbers at this Point.
13 14 17 20 21 24
25 27 29 31 32 33 34 -----------------------------------------------
HIT UNHIT HIT TWICE HIT THREE TIMES <-----Hitrate so far
-----------------------------------------------
26
18 19
8
16 21
5 32
28 3
26 26
4 33
7 30
1 36
23 14
22
19 19,18
35 2
30 30
36
15
7 7
10 27
23 23---------------------------
19 unhit numbers at herecheers
/Compa
X-ing over mean X-ing over from nought occurrances to one occurrance for a particular number or from 1 appearance to more than one appearance 1 -2 occurances for a particular number
I dont understand the word "nought".... :o
NOUGHT 0 OR NO OCCURANCES
Regards Rodney
[table=,]Spin, No, 0x, 1x, Bet,
1, 24, 36, 1,
2, 17, 35, 2,
3, 36, 34, 3,
4, 4, 33, 4,
5, 11, 32, 5,
6, 19, 31, 6,
7, 33, 30, 7,
8, 9, 29, 8,
9, 11, 29, 7,
10, 4, 29, 6,
11, 20, 28, 7,
12, 17, 28, 6,
13, 0, 27, 7,
14, 31, 26, 8,
15, 1, 25, 9,
16, 4, 25, 9,
17, 3, 24, 10,
18, 34, 23, 11,
19, 30, 22, 12,
20, 7, 21, 13,
21, 14, 20, 14,
22, 28, 19, 15,
23, 13, 18, 16,
24, 21, 17, 17, bet,
25, 4, 17, 17, loss-bet,
26, 30, 17, 16, loss-bet,
27, 7, 17, 15, loss,
28, 24, 17, 14,
29, 26, 16, 15, bet,
30, 35, 15, 16, win -31,
[/table]
Using Natural9's numbers and to keep this simple, I would take a loss of -31 units and re-track.
Compa, try setting your table like this......
[table=,]Spin, No, 0x, 1x,
1, 24, 36, 1,
2, 17, 35, 2,
3, 36, 34, 3,
[/table]
The 0x column simply numerically counts backwards from 36 downwards the amount of numbers that are left that have not hit.
The 1x column simply counts the numbers that have hit only once.
eg, after the 1st spin - 24, there are 36 numbers that have not yet hit and one number that has hit once etc....
Once you understand this, then the 2x & 3x makes sense. Hope this helps.
What I experienced is that if you win and dont have profit it is still better to reset and retrack..
People......
Thanks so much for using the syntax!! Neat columns!!
Sam
Quote from: Boo_Ray on August 31, 2008, 06:50:16 PM
here is my test of around 400 spins sadly I droped in the end
When you dropped in the end, were you doing anything different? Were you resetting back 18 or 37 numbers after a win or loss?
Also, during your test of 400 spins, how many triggers did you consistently play? Just 0 vs. 1 or did you use all of the triggers?
I was using triggers between 0 and 1... and ..1 and 2, reset after win
I have posted a new programme in the Members Downloads
area (info in the "Common Sense" department) which is
similar to the GUT. It's called "Great Square Tester v0.1.
As I don't fully understand the GUT (despite much reading
of all these posts) I'll leave it to those who do understand
to point out any missing bits - if anyone wants to use it
for this system.
Quote from: Lohnro on September 01, 2008, 06:02:49 AM
Compa, try setting your table like this......
[table=,]Spin, No, 0x, 1x,
1, 24, 36, 1,
2, 17, 35, 2,
3, 36, 34, 3,
[/table]
The 0x column simply numerically counts backwards from 36 downwards the amount of numbers that are left that have not hit.
The 1x column simply counts the numbers that have hit only once.
eg, after the 1st spin - 24, there are 36 numbers that have not yet hit and one number that has hit once etc....
Once you understand this, then the 2x & 3x makes sense. Hope this helps.
Thanks Master Lohnro!
/Compa
Quote from: Boo_Ray on September 01, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
I was using triggers between 0 and 1... and ..1 and 2, reset after win
More specifically, 2 questions: 1) did you reset back 37 numbers after your first win whether you were into profit or not? and 2) you only used 2 triggers then 0 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 2?
I may have done it a little differently, I went through all 4 different triggers (2x bets per trigger):
0 vs 1
1 vs >1
0 vs >1
1 vs 2
I only reset and tracked new numbers when I finished betting with the 4th and last trigger. I was able to produce $145 in about 30 minutes with only 3 losses. Each and every one of these triggers produced consistent wins for me.
Quote from: madupz4 on September 01, 2008, 05:52:30 PM
Quote from: Boo_Ray on September 01, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
I was using triggers between 0 and 1... and ..1 and 2, reset after win
More specifically, 2 questions: 1) did you reset back 37 numbers after your first win whether you were into profit or not? and 2) you only used 2 triggers then 0 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 2?
I may have done it a little differently, I went through all 4 different triggers (2x bets per trigger):
0 vs 1
1 vs >1
0 vs >1
1 vs 2
I only reset and tracked new numbers when I finished betting with the 4th and last trigger. I was able to produce $145 in about 30 minutes with only 3 losses. Each and every one of these triggers produced consistent wins for me.
After reset I took last 18 numbers and continue to chart
Triggers were 0 vs 1 and 1 vs 2
which comes first
Quote from: tucktuckster on September 01, 2008, 04:59:25 AM
Winkel,
Here are some of my thoughts based arouns the testing that I have done. Please can you comment on these situations and how you handle.
1) If the 0 v 1 crossing is before spin 25 - It is very dangerous to play. I think maybe best not to.
2) If the 1 v >1 crossing flashes before 0 v 1 - I tend not to play because this is not a normal situation. Often it fails. However - if it continues to appear as a signal it tends to win on 3rd or 4th signal?
3) How do you handle situations where the 0 is 13 and the 1 is 13 and a 1 lands? Does this become a new signal or is it still 2 plays and stop. example below
13 v 13 Signal and bet.
loses as a 1 lands
13 v 12 signal and bet.
loses asa >1 lands.
Is this 2 losses and stop? or do you bet on since you have only had 1 loss at signal 13 v12.
4) In instances where the 0 v 1 crossing is very late - ie 13 v 13 is first flash and it is late on spin 40 or so - I have found results quite poor since numbers >1 seem to be repeating. do you still play or not?
5) If you get a situation after spin 37, where 0 is 14 and 1 is say 15. Then after spin 44 0 is still 14 and 1 falls to 14- you have a signal to bet. it wins. spin 45 becomes 13 for 0 and 15 for 1's. In my experience after such a run of no hits in 0, they tend to hit again. would you replay the 13 expecting another hit?
6) If the 1 v >1 crosses early on - say spin 20 before any other crossing - I will wait and see what happens. If the 1 v >1 runs away and starts being silly such as this
0 1 >1
16 7 14
then I tend to restart
however - if the 1 v >1 is crossed but then corrects - I tend to carry on tracking to see where 0 v 1 is going to cross. If it is around spin 25 to 35, then I proceed and play. is this okay?
hi tuckster,
1) this is correct
imagine we have 18 spins and no repeaters. Here is the first crossing 19-18. If you played EC would you bet the "0" again?
a) if the row continues we will find:
19. 18-19
20. 17-20
21. 16-21
22. 15-22
23. 14-23
24. 13-24
etc.
the chance to get a crossing on 0 vs 1 and on 1 vs >1 is not possible in the next spins.
b) the row ends
19. 19-17-1
20. 19-16-2
21. 19-15-3
22. 19-14-4
23. 19-13-5
24. 19-12-7
the chance to get a crossing on 0 vs 1 and on 1 vs >1 is not possible in the next spins.
by the binomial distribution we should have 19 "0"s at spin 25
2) this is also correct follows the example b)
3)
spin 13-13 trigger
spin 13-12 still trigger
spin 13-11 trigger is dead
spin 12-12 trigger
spin 13-13 trigger
spin 13-13 loss
spin 13-13 loss and stopp
spin 13-12 don´t play
spin 13-11
spin 12-12 trigger
4) If there is no trigger for "0" vs "1" before the 37th spin I restart
5) As you read what is going on this might be a good bet-selection but it is not part of this strategy! Better restart!
6) this is okay. But if the trigger appears after hitting 4 or more times "0" I wouldn´t bet,
br
winkel
Quote from: madupz4 on September 01, 2008, 05:52:30 PM
Quote from: Boo_Ray on September 01, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
I was using triggers between 0 and 1... and ..1 and 2, reset after win
More specifically, 2 questions: 1) did you reset back 37 numbers after your first win whether you were into profit or not? and 2) you only used 2 triggers then 0 vs. 1 and 1 vs. 2?
I may have done it a little differently, I went through all 4 different triggers (2x bets per trigger):
0 vs 1
1 vs >1
0 vs >1
1 vs 2
I only reset and tracked new numbers when I finished betting with the 4th and last trigger. I was able to produce $145 in about 30 minutes with only 3 losses. Each and every one of these triggers produced consistent wins for me.
Hi madupz,
this is as normal as the other opposite examples you can read here. (loss on 17-17, loss on 13-13)
All in All you will win not much but you will win mor often than loose, that´s the Grail in it.
br
winkel
to natural
15 1 0 0 0 / 0 0 25 9 3
16 4 0 0 2 / 0 0 25 9 3
17 3 0 0 0 / 0 0 24 10 3
18 34 0 0 0 / 0 0 23 11 3
19 30 0 0 0 / 0 0 22 12 3
20 7 0 0 0 / 0 0 21 13 3
21 14 0 0 0 / 0 0 20 14 3
22 28 0 0 0 / 0 0 19 15 3
23 13 0 0 0 / 0 0 18 16 3
24 21 0 0 / 0 0 17 17 3
25 4 0 2 / 0 0 17 17 3
26 30 rr 17 1 V -17 -17 17 16 4
27 7 rr 17 1 V -17 -34 17 15 5
28 24 0 1 / 0 -34 17 14 6
29 26 0 0 / 0 -34 16 15 6
30 35 rr 16 0 G 20 -14 15 16 6
31 29 0 0 / 0 -14 14 17 6
32 36 0 1 / 0 -14 14 16 7
read my answer to tucktuckster and than lokk at the result!
You see after spin 16 there came 8 "0" in a row!!!!!!!! In such a situation a bet is not recommended. Even the bet in spin 30 is a high risc,
But this is what you only can see if you execise. I would have stopped after win in spin 30 and restarted.
So: if you find a crossing always check how often the group to bet has appeared in the last few spins.
Best situation is one or two hits of every group
br
winkel
Winkel,
I had a bad session, lost more than I won. I was using these 4 triggers:
0 vs 1
1 vs >1
0 vs >1
1 vs 2
Is it better to use: (?)
1st stage: 0 vs. 1
2nd stage: 1 vs. 1>
3rd stage: 2 vs. 2>
4th stage: 3 vs. 3>
-instead of betting on 0 vs.>1 and 1 vs. 2 ?
Hi madupz,
I can´t answer properly if you don´t give me the numbers you did bet on.
And I repeat: There are always sessions you loose. this is not an always winning strategy. But it wins in long-term and it doesn´t eat up your bankroll.
The problem is never the trigger you decide to play, it is always what happened just before the trigger appears.
br
winkel
Hello Winkel!
You play and test this system with a thousands of spins.
Have you ever found a trigger, or 0x - 1x - >1x combination, or some rare event which give you more chance to win?
For example: you have four times 0x-15 and 1x-14. So maybe we have more chance to 0x change to 14. Probably this idea is wrong.
In my few test it didn't work, and you have to wait lot of spin.
I want to found some rare, but starnger trigger with a little more chance. But it is not easy if it not impossible, because your system base is the binomial distribution.
What do you think?
thanks
ernesto
Hi ernesto,
QuoteI want to found some rare, but starnger trigger with a little more chance.
Then you will sit for weeks at the table waiting for this trigger to come. In between you see all the other triggers win you didn´t bet.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 08:00:08 AM
Then you will sit for weeks at the table waiting for this trigger to come. In between you see all the other triggers win you didn´t bet.
Yes, you are right!
But if you have enough fast live spins, you don't select the stronger triggers, if possible?
Just for theoretically.
ernesto
Hi ernesto,
if there would be a "stronger" trigger the system wouldn´t work.
except: if you had played 3 times the "0" vs "1" than of course the "1" vs ">1" would be the stronger trigger:
e.g. 13 12 12
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 08:23:48 AM
if there would be a "stronger" trigger the system wouldn´t work.
Thats true.
Thanks Winkel!
ernesto
Winkel,
I keep losing my starting bankroll and i'm not going into profit. How can I copy my results to show you after they are entered into your software?
just put the numbers in here.
br
winkel
[table=,]
testing, this, out,
1,2,3,
[/table]
Winkel,
Here is a test I just ran of 112 numbers. This is exactly how I played every other session and although this session was not as bad as the others it still didn't end in the positive. Most of my other sessions were deep into the negative on average of negative -75 units. Please let me know what you think, if I am doing this correctly.
[table=,]
#, Result, 0,1,2,3,3>
1,4,36,1,0,0,0
2,24,35,2,0,0,0
3,2,34,3,0,0,0
4,11,33,4,0,0,0
5,36,32,5,0,0,0
6,34,31,6,0,0,0
7,24,31,5,1,0,0
8,26,30,6,1,0,0
9,32,29,7,1,0,0
10,9,28,8,1,0,0
11,11,28,7,2,0,0
12,1,27,8,2,0,0
13,10,26,9,2,0,0
14,8,25,10,2,0,0
15,6,24,11,2,0,0
16,29,23,12,2,0,0
17,7,22,13,2,0,0
18,21,21,14,2,0,0
19,20,20,15,2,0,0
20,35,19,16,2,0,0
21,10,19,15,3,0,0
22,12,18,16,3,0,0
23,27,17,17,3,0,0, Bet (Lost) -17
24,10,17,17,2,1,0, Bet (won) +19
25,33,16,18,2,1,0
26,18,15,19,2,1,0
27,26,15,18,3,1,0
28,11,15,18,2,2,0
29,3,14,19,2,2,0
30,17,13,20,2,2,0
31,15,12,21,2,2,0
32,13,11,22,2,2,0
33,33,11,21,3,2,0
34,17,11,20,4,2,0
35,4,11,19,5,2,0
36,31,10,20,5,2,0
37,24,10,20,4,3,0
38,32,10,19,5,3,0
39,0,9,20,5,3,0, Bet (0vs.1>) Won +27
40,14,8,21,5,3,0
41,32,8,21,4,4,0
42,6,8,20,5,4,0
43,11,8,20,5,3,0
44,31,8,19,6,3,1
45,32,8,19,6,2,2
46,31,8,19,5,3,2
47,4,8,19,4,4,2
48,26,8,19,3,5,2
49,21,8,18,4,5,2
50,8,8,17,5,5,2
51,36,8,16,6,5,2
52,33,8,16,5,6,2
53,3,8,15,6,6,2, Bet (1vs.1>) Win +21
54,20,8,14,7,6,2
55,31,8,14,7,5,3
56,30,7,15,7,5,3
57,17,7,15,6,6,3
58,23,6,16,6,6,3
59,10,6,16,6,5,4
60,0,6,15,7,5,4
61,18,6,14,8,5,4
62,1,6,13,9,5,4
63,5,5,14,9,5,4
64,28,4,15,9,5,4
65,18,4,15,8,6,4
66,5,4,14,9,6,4
67,12,4,13,10,6,4
68,17,4,13,10,5,5
69,22,3,14,10,5,5
70,33,3,14,10,4,6
71,23,3,13,11,4,6
72,28,3,12,12,4,6, Bet (1v.2) Lost -12
73,36,3,12,11,5,6, Bet (1v.2) Lost -12
74,19,2,13,11,5,6
[/table]
-reset back 18
[table=,]
#, Result, 0,1,2,3,3>
18,19,24,8,5,0,0
19,8,23,9,5,0,0
20,3,22,10,5,0,0
21,36,22,9,6,0,0
22,0,22,8,7,0,0
23,8,22,7,8,0,0
24,24,21,8,8,0,0
25,30,20,9,8,0,0
26,16,19,10,8,0,0
27,21,18,11,8,0,0
28,2,17,12,8,0,0
29,12,17,11,9,0,0
30,20,16,12,9,0,0
31,25,15,13,9,0,0
32,16,15,12,10,0,0
33,1,15,11,11,0,0
34,25,15,10,12,0,0
35,14,14,11,12,0,0
36,31,13,12,12,0,0, Bet (0v.1) Lost -13
37,16,13,12,11,1,0, Bet (0v.1) Lost -13
38,19,13,11,12,1,0
[/table]
After 112 spins my end result is even. This is what I mean by it seems like I am running in place, not getting anywhere. Most other times I ended up -75 in the negative. I'm not going into the positive on a consistent basis.
What do you think?
Hi madupzm
don´t play that long!!!!!
maximum up to 50 spins!
Why didn´t you reset after spin 39?
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 05:36:06 PM
Hi madupzm
don´t play that long!!!!!
maximum up to 50 spins!
Why didn´t you reset after spin 39?
br
winkel
I played that long because I used 4 different triggers each time. Why would I reset after 50 spins when I haven't had the opportunity to use the other 2 triggers? Are you saying play till 50 spins then reset back to 18 each and every time?
If we only play to 50 spins then we will never have the opportunity to use any other trigger than 0vs.1 or maybe 0vs.1>, How will we ever use 1vs.1> or 1vs.2 which usually don't come untill way after spin 50?
Game 1
1 4 36 1 0
2 24 35 2 0
3 2 34 3 0
4 11 33 4 0
5 36 32 5 0
6 34 31 6 0
7 24 31 5 1
8 26 30 6 1
9 32 29 7 1
10 9 28 8 1
11 11 28 7 2
12 1 27 8 2
13 10 26 9 2
14 8 0 25 10 2
15 6 0 24 11 2
16 29 0 23 12 2
17 7 0 22 13 2
18 21 0 21 14 2
19 20 0 20 15 2
20 35 0 19 16 2
21 10 0 19 15 3
22 12 0 18 16 3
23 27 0 17 17 3
24 10 rr -17 17 17 3
25 33 rr 2 16 18 3
26 18 2 15 19 3
27 26 2 15 18 4
28 11 2 15 18 4
29 3 2 14 19 4
30 17 2 13 20 4
31 15 2 12 21 4
32 13 2 11 22 4
33 33 2 11 21 5
34 17 2 11 20 6
35 4 2 11 19 7
36 31 2 10 20 7
37 24 2 10 20 7
38 32 2 10 19 8
39 0 2 9 20 8
40 14 rr 29 8 21 8
game 2
1 12 36 1 0
2 27 35 2 0
3 10 34 3 0
4 33 33 4 0
5 18 32 5 0
6 26 31 6 0
7 11 30 7 0
8 3 29 8 0
9 17 28 9 0
10 15 27 10 0
11 13 26 11 0
12 33 26 10 1
13 17 26 9 2
14 4 0 25 10 2
15 31 0 24 11 2
16 24 0 23 12 2
17 32 0 22 13 2
18 0 0 21 14 2
19 14 0 20 15 2
20 32 0 20 14 3
21 6 0 19 15 3
22 11 0 19 14 4
23 31 0 19 13 5
24 32 0 19 13 5
25 31 0 19 13 5
26 4 0 19 12 6
27 26 0 19 11 7
28 21 0 18 12 7
29 8 0 17 13 7
30 36 0 16 14 7
31 33 0 16 14 7
32 3 0 16 13 8
33 20 0 15 14 8
34 31 rr -15 15 14 8
35 30 rr 6 14 15 8
36 17 6 14 15 8
37 6 6 14 14 9
38 33 rr -8 14 14 9
39 35 rr 14 13 15 9
game 3
1 6 36 1 0
2 11 35 2 0
3 31 34 3 0
4 32 33 4 0
5 31 33 3 1
6 4 32 4 1
7 26 31 5 1
8 21 30 6 1
9 8 29 7 1
10 36 28 8 1
11 33 27 9 1
12 3 26 10 1
13 20 25 11 1
14 31 0 25 11 1
15 30 0 24 12 1
16 17 0 23 13 1
17 6 0 23 12 2
18 33 0 23 11 3
19 35 0 22 12 3
20 18 0 21 13 3
21 1 0 20 14 3
22 10 0 19 15 3
23 28 0 18 16 3
24 18 0 18 15 4
25 5 0 17 16 4
26 12 rr 19 16 17 4
27 17 19 16 16 5
28 22 rr 39 15 17 5
29 33 39 15 17 5
30 2 39 14 18 5
31 11 39 14 17 6
32 8 39 14 16 7
33 30 39 14 15 8
34 10 39 14 14 9
35 22 rr 25 14 13 10
36 19 rr 47 13 14 10
29+14+47=+90
br
winkel
It is no must to use all triggers.
Feel free to restart if you loose
Feel free to restart when you had a early win
Feel free to restart when you started with a loss and win that brought you nearly back to +-0 or small win.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 05:54:11 PM
It is no must to use all triggers.
Feel free to restart if you loose
Feel free to restart when you had a early win
Feel free to restart when you started with a loss and win that brought you nearly back to +-0 or small win.
br
winkel
I see, but then most likely if we are constantly restarting, the only triggers we will be using is 0 vs. 1 and maybe
0 vs. 1> correct? The other triggers don't happen until around spin 75 and after!
Quote from: madupz4 on September 02, 2008, 06:00:53 PM
The other triggers don't happen until around spin 75 and after!
thats not true. in 50 spins you have often all triggers.
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 05:51:34 PM
Game 1
1 4 36 1 0
2 24 35 2 0
3 2 34 3 0
4 11 33 4 0
5 36 32 5 0
6 34 31 6 0
7 24 31 5 1
8 26 30 6 1
9 32 29 7 1
10 9 28 8 1
11 11 28 7 2
12 1 27 8 2
13 10 26 9 2
14 8 0 25 10 2
15 6 0 24 11 2
16 29 0 23 12 2
17 7 0 22 13 2
18 21 0 21 14 2
19 20 0 20 15 2
20 35 0 19 16 2
21 10 0 19 15 3
22 12 0 18 16 3
23 27 0 17 17 3
24 10 rr -17 17 17 3
25 33 rr 2 16 18 3
26 18 2 15 19 3
27 26 2 15 18 4
28 11 2 15 18 4
29 3 2 14 19 4
30 17 2 13 20 4
31 15 2 12 21 4
32 13 2 11 22 4
33 33 2 11 21 5
34 17 2 11 20 6
35 4 2 11 19 7
36 31 2 10 20 7
37 24 2 10 20 7
38 32 2 10 19 8
39 0 2 9 20 8
40 14 rr 29 8 21 8
game 2
1 12 36 1 0
2 27 35 2 0
3 10 34 3 0
4 33 33 4 0
5 18 32 5 0
6 26 31 6 0
7 11 30 7 0
8 3 29 8 0
9 17 28 9 0
10 15 27 10 0
11 13 26 11 0
12 33 26 10 1
13 17 26 9 2
14 4 0 25 10 2
15 31 0 24 11 2
16 24 0 23 12 2
17 32 0 22 13 2
18 0 0 21 14 2
19 14 0 20 15 2
20 32 0 20 14 3
21 6 0 19 15 3
22 11 0 19 14 4
23 31 0 19 13 5
24 32 0 19 13 5
25 31 0 19 13 5
26 4 0 19 12 6
27 26 0 19 11 7
28 21 0 18 12 7
29 8 0 17 13 7
30 36 0 16 14 7
31 33 0 16 14 7
32 3 0 16 13 8
33 20 0 15 14 8
34 31 rr -15 15 14 8
35 30 rr 6 14 15 8
36 17 6 14 15 8
37 6 6 14 14 9
38 33 rr -8 14 14 9
39 35 rr 14 13 15 9
game 3
1 6 36 1 0
2 11 35 2 0
3 31 34 3 0
4 32 33 4 0
5 31 33 3 1
6 4 32 4 1
7 26 31 5 1
8 21 30 6 1
9 8 29 7 1
10 36 28 8 1
11 33 27 9 1
12 3 26 10 1
13 20 25 11 1
14 31 0 25 11 1
15 30 0 24 12 1
16 17 0 23 13 1
17 6 0 23 12 2
18 33 0 23 11 3
19 35 0 22 12 3
20 18 0 21 13 3
21 1 0 20 14 3
22 10 0 19 15 3
23 28 0 18 16 3
24 18 0 18 15 4
25 5 0 17 16 4
26 12 rr 19 16 17 4
27 17 19 16 16 5
28 22 rr 39 15 17 5
29 33 39 15 17 5
30 2 39 14 18 5
31 11 39 14 17 6
32 8 39 14 16 7
33 30 39 14 15 8
34 10 39 14 14 9
35 22 rr 25 14 13 10
36 19 rr 47 13 14 10
29+14+47=+90
br
winkel
I have no Idea where you got +29 in game 1! You only have 1 trigger, spin #24? = +17
24 10 rr -17 17 17 3
25 33 rr 2 16 18 3
26 18 2 15 19 3
27 26 2 15 18 4
28 11 2 15 18 4
29 3 2 14 19 4
30 17 2 13 20 4
31 15 2 12 21 4
32 13 2 11 22 4
33 33 2 11 21 5
34 17 2 11 20 6
35 4 2 11 19 7
36 31 2 10 20 7
37 24 2 10 20 7
38 32 2 10 19 8
39 0 2 9 20 8
40 14 rr 29 8 21 8
Starting with spin #25 to spin # 39 where are you getting all of these "2's?" You don't have a trigger to bet, and how are you accumulating +2 on every spin?
I have 9 "0" and 8 ">1" in spin 39
the 2s are the total-sum which doesn´t change as long there is no bet.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 06:43:27 PM
I have 9 "0" and 8 ">1" in spin 39
the 2s are the total-sum which doesn´t change as long there is no bet.
br
winkel
Ok understood, But
In game 3 at spin number 25: you bet 19, you won! Then there was another trigger right after and you bet again and won again for a profit of +39. Why did you bet a second time when you were already ahead +19? Isn't that risky? Why didn't you take your profit and start over? After you won 2x in a row (+39) you still continued and bet again on spin 34? Why?
Game 3:
25 5 0 17 16 4
26 12 rr 19 16 17 4
27 17 19 16 16 5
28 22 rr 39 15 17 5
29 33 39 15 17 5
30 2 39 14 18 5
31 11 39 14 17 6
32 8 39 14 16 7
33 30 39 14 15 8
34 10 39 14 14 9
35 22 rr 25 14 13 10
36 19 rr 47 13 14 10
Remember:
The idea of the game is to watch what is going on.
As I wrote: When you jump back 19 spins you have time enough to make new statistics. When I play in OC´s I have an excel-sheet that allows me to jump even one spin back or any other amount.
In a minute i will give you the results as if I had started new after last bet.
QuoteWhy didn't you take your profit and start over? After you won 2x in a row (+39) you still continued and bet again on spin 34? Why?
because this was a row which followed absolutely the binomial-deviation.
game3
spin 22 a "0"
spin 23 a "0"
spin 24 a "1"
spin 25 a "0"
spin 26 a "0"
spin 27 a "1"
do you see a rhythm?
then 6x no "0" and a trigger came to bet on "0"!
br
winkel
also, In game 2 my spins are different from what you posted.
You wrote:
33 20 0 15 14 8
34 31 rr -15 15 14 8
35 30 rr 6 14 15 8
36 17 6 14 15 8
37 6 6 14 14 9
38 33 rr -8 14 14 9
39 35 rr 14 13 15 9
But my results after your spin 36 are below:
54 20 8 14 7 6 2
55 31 8 14 7 5 3
56 30 7 15 7 5 3
57 17 7 15 6 6 3
58 23 6 16 6 6 3
59 10 6 16 6 5 4
60 0 6 15 7 5 4
61 18 6 14 8 5 4
Where did you come up with those numbers? That is not what I origionally posted?
1 12 36 1 0
2 27 35 2 0
3 10 34 3 0
4 33 33 4 0
5 18 32 5 0
6 26 31 6 0
7 11 30 7 0
8 3 29 8 0
9 17 28 9 0
10 15 27 10 0
11 13 26 11 0
12 33 26 10 1
13 17 26 9 2
14 4 0 25 10 2
15 31 0 24 11 2
16 24 0 23 12 2
17 32 0 22 13 2
18 0 0 21 14 2
19 14 0 20 15 2
20 32 0 20 14 3
21 6 0 19 15 3
22 11 0 19 14 4
23 31 0 19 13 5
24 32 0 19 13 5
25 31 0 19 13 5
26 4 0 19 12 6
27 26 0 19 11 7
28 21 0 18 12 7
29 8 0 17 13 7
30 36 0 16 14 7
31 33 0 16 14 7
32 3 0 16 13 8
33 20 0 15 14 8
34 31 rr -15 15 14 8
35 30 rr 6 14 15 8
36 17 6 14 15 8
37 23 6 13 16 8
38 10 6 13 15 9
39 0 6 13 14 10
40 18 6 13 13 11
41 1 rr 29 12 14 11
mistake in formula
revised see above
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 02, 2008, 07:53:21 PM
Remember:
The idea of the game is to watch what is going on.
As I wrote: When you jump back 19 spins you have time enough to make new statistics. When I play in OC´s I have an excel-sheet that allows me to jump even one spin back or any other amount.
In a minute I will give you the results as if I had started new after last bet.
QuoteWhy didn't you take your profit and start over? After you won 2x in a row (+39) you still continued and bet again on spin 34? Why?
because this was a row which followed absolutely the binomial-deviation.
game3
spin 22 a "0"
spin 23 a "0"
spin 24 a "1"
spin 25 a "0"
spin 26 a "0"
spin 27 a "1"
do you see a rhythm?
then 6x no "0" and a trigger came to bet on "0"!
br
winkel
Winkel,
Yes I see the rhythm in that particular instance, but other times I also see patterns and "rhythm's" and try to make the appropriate bet (i.e. 0 or 1) and it fails. At times it's almost a guessing game with no clear cut rules. I tried another test of 50 spins and it resulted in -50 units. I have no doubt that you are winning with this system, but wouldn't the "Grail" be a system with easy to follow, clear cut rules (no predictions) with a steady consistent profit? It seems like the G.U.T. works at times but is not consistent and requires many human predictions to be successful. (Like predicting when to bet on the approprate trigger)
Hi winkel
You have an excel sheet? Jumping back with my program is so awkward, please share your excel sheet with me?
thanks.
Hi Winkel!
When you play only 12 numbers, you can play three times in a row, if you still have trigger, right?
So if you loose the first and the second, you can get balance again if the third win.
But you wrote this earlier:
Quote
as I said in one of my plays: I don#t like to bet the same trigger-situation 3 times in a row.
So how do you handle if you have 12 or less number, but you have exactly the same trigger-situation three times in a row?
ernesto
Hi ernesto,
to play a trigger three times :
17 - 17 on 0vs1
15 - 15 on 0vs1
13 - 13 on 0vs1
but: bet as long as a bet can equal or give you a win
17-13 bet twice
12-10 bet three times
9 or less you can bet 4 times
Quotebut wouldn't the "Grail" be a system with easy to follow, clear cut rules (no predictions) with a steady consistent profit?
In a game where the house edge is that high you can´t find a rule like "bet Red after Black"
As I said:
You have a trigger that comes without doubt
that crosses more often than it didn´t
You just have to take contol of the things that are goeing on.
You have to dedide when to stopp and when to proceed.
It´s like driving a car: The machine works at it´s best, but if you don´t have your hands on the wheel the next tree kills you.
Or it´s like playing chess: The rules are clear cut! But that won´t make you win!
br
winkel
Why do people always think that it would/could/must be easy to beat roulette and house edge at the same time?
Thank you Winkel for this 'system'. I noticed madzup played 0 - 1 >. So this is also a possible bet? Thought 0 just could be played against 1.
Live play takes some time. Has anyone tried it with RNG?
Quote from: bobco on September 03, 2008, 09:16:11 AM
Thank you Winkel for this 'system'. I noticed madzup played 0 - 1 >. So this is also a possible bet? Thought 0 just could be played against 1.
Live play takes some time. Has anyone tried it with RNG?
The possible bets are always
x vs >x
or
x vs x+1
It doesn´t matter if you play live or RNG
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 03, 2008, 06:02:00 AM
Hi ernesto,
to play a trigger three times :
17 - 17 on 0vs1
15 - 15 on 0vs1
13 - 13 on 0vs1
but: bet as long as a bet can equal or give you a win
17-13 bet twice
12-10 bet three times
9 or less you can bet 4 times
Winkel,
I know it's not advised to bet 17 more than 3 times but theoretically why couldn't we bet:
17-17 on 0vs1
17-16 on 0vs1
17-16 on 0vs1
-17
-17 -34
-17 -51
-17 -68
-17
-17 +36 +2
-17
-17
-17 +36 -15
-17
-17
-17
-17 +36 -32
total risk 68 thats ca. 30% of bankroll
If you win in 4th you still have 2 losses to equal
If you win in third
the next win in 1. wil equal
Instead of this and the risk to run in a 4x loss
you better start at a second trigger an loose with total -68
because the chance to loose the second trigger is less than to loose a 4x in a row
othewise it depends on:
at which spin is the trigger?
what happend just before the trigger?
is the spin before 25 you will loose at 80%
were there 4 or more hit of "0"s you will loose at 80%
winkel, I checked out your system. It offers no advantage other than being a system that works while its working and not when it's not. It's an interesting notion that while counting down the numbers that have not hit yet there is an expectation that there is a kind of normal amount of them that will act in a high expectation for brief periods. There is a sort of consistency when there are from 12 to 8 to go down to 4 to go. I think a progression might crack that too, most of the time.
The guy that said that the law of thirds applies to this method was right. It might have been Herb. It's just a matrix contraption that counts on triggers to make guesses. It's obvious to me that you are engaged in an intense discussion on when to use a trigger and when not.
I wrote a computer program to check when each descending amount of numbers that had not yet hit would produce the most winners verses amounts bet. I was surprised that 17 was not a good spot to start. 8 down to 4 was the best, lowest risk combination. That's what I was interested in learning about the concept.
Thanks for the ideas.
Mark
Quote from: gizmotron on September 03, 2008, 12:24:04 PM
winkel, I checked out your system. It offers no advantage other than being a system that works while its working and not when it's not. It's an interesting notion that while counting down the numbers that have not hit yet there is an expectation that there is a kind of normal amount of them that will act in a high expectation for brief periods. There is a sort of consistency when there are from 12 to 8 to go down to 4 to go. I think a progression might crack that too, most of the time.
The guy that said that the law of thirds applies to this method was right. It might have been Herb. It's just a matrix contraption that counts on triggers to make guesses. It's obvious to me that you are engaged in an intense discussion on when to use a trigger and when not.
I wrote a computer program to check when each descending amount of numbers that had not yet hit would produce the most winners verses amounts bet. I was surprised that 17 was not a good spot to start. 8 down to 4 was the best, lowest risk combination. That's what I was interested in learning about the concept.
Thanks for the ideas.
Mark
So you're saying waiting for an 8-8 0vs.1 trigger to 4-4 shows the best chances of winning? That's the kind of information I have been seeking. How much more efficient is it to wait for 8-8 vs. 17-17?
madupz4 - "So you're saying waiting for an 8-8 0vs.1 trigger to 4-4 shows the best chances of winning? That's the kind of information I have been seeking. How much more efficient is it to wait for 8-8 vs. 17-17?"
I'll use my knowledge of hot number observation to give you a clue. There are almost always four numbers that tend to by more active than the others and three or four that are less active than the others to the extreme. So I thought that 19 to 12 was going to be the best intervals for catching the most wins in the shortest times. The problem is at those numbers you are betting more numbers for each bet. The risk of building up larger losses is reduced if you bet less so you need to wait until you have less numbers that have not hit yet. What's interesting is that the last numbers to fall still keep chugging along and hitting. You must understand something. You are betting on the coldest numbers in the temporary data stream to favor you. It's the fact that they do hit and when it gets down to the four-to-go section you are only betting four units then. The risk is lower. That low risk offers you a chance to research a progression. At least I'm interested in it that way that is.
You will have to relate what I just said to that charting trigger stuff that you mentioned. I won't waste my time trying to understand it. I'm not attempting to prove it doesn't work. The discussion is doing a fine job of that. I just wanted to power test the concept in general. I'll probably end up with giving up on the progression too. If I want to guess patterns I'm going to do that visually on stuff that is common occurrences and simple to figure. It makes since to have fun while you are gambling. It's fun to see a pattern forming right before your eyes. It's fun to see dominances.
its taken me a few hours to understand this - its great. thanks very much.[smiley=dankk2.gif]
[smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
[smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Quote from: gizmotron on September 03, 2008, 12:24:04 PM
winkel, I checked out your system. It offers no advantage other than being a system that works while its working and not when it's not. It's an interesting notion that while counting down the numbers that have not hit yet there is an expectation that there is a kind of normal amount of them that will act in a high expectation for brief periods. There is a sort of consistency when there are from 12 to 8 to go down to 4 to go. I think a progression might crack that too, most of the time.
The guy that said that the law of thirds applies to this method was right. It might have been Herb. It's just a matrix contraption that counts on triggers to make guesses. It's obvious to me that you are engaged in an intense discussion on when to use a trigger and when not.
I wrote a computer program to check when each descending amount of numbers that had not yet hit would produce the most winners verses amounts bet. I was surprised that 17 was not a good spot to start. 8 down to 4 was the best, lowest risk combination. That's what I was interested in learning about the concept.
Thanks for the ideas.
Mark
You are wrong.
QuoteThe guy that said that the law of thirds applies to this method was right.
Sorry neither nor you are right. If you look at my post "view at statistics" you will see, that the law of the third" hits only at about 6-7% of all 37spins-section!!!!!
I do play therefore all 37spin-section also them not being "Law of the third"
QuoteIt's obvious to me that you are engaged in an intense discussion on when to use a trigger and when not.
of course! look at Markov! How will I recognize the "hidden Sequenz" when I´m not watching, what is going on?
QuoteI wrote a computer program to check when each descending amount of numbers that had not yet hit would produce the most winners verses amounts bet.
This sounds to me that you didn´t do it right.
Did you check having a crossing against any other combination?
Did you test how many of them were hit in the previous spins?
Did you use the "Jump Back"-Option with it´s Rules?
I´m sure you didn´t. This is not rushing through and knowing all of it.
br
winkel
Quote from: madupz4 on September 03, 2008, 12:33:26 PM
So you're saying waiting for an 8-8 0vs.1 trigger to 4-4 shows the best chances of winning? That's the kind of information I have been seeking. How much more efficient is it to wait for 8-8 vs. 17-17?
High madupz,
If you play it this way you will wait for weeks for a trigger and you will loose. If you you so, don´t blame it on the strategy or me.
This is absolutely not the intention of this.
All you do this way, do it on your own risk.
br
winkel
winkel,
QuoteThis sounds to me that you didn´t do it right.
Did you check having a crossing against any other combination?
Did you test how many of them were hit in the previous spins?
Did you use the "Jump Back"-Option with it´s Rules?
I´m sure you didn´t. This is not rushing through and knowing all of it.
I'm sure you have defended your point of view very well. You are correct that I didn't confirm your techniques in my simulation. I ran a simulation on the nature of randomness while tracking descending occurrences of yet to hit numbers. This was the original notion that I got from you. I still think that it's very interesting.
There is no crossing mechanism that can point to the moment in time that will position the nature of randomness that a signal has occurred, one that means you have found significant importance that is. This is a mechanized trigger based contraption that has one feature that gives it it's possible success. I agree with the notion of selecting patterns in order to make choices. Your exhaustive belief in your idea is also admirable. Your notion and direction may prove one day to be the right track but guessing on patterns may actually be the more important finding.
That's just my two cents.
I'll stay out of your discussion.
well - i have played bits which skirted around the edges of this. saw this strategy and a lot clicked for me. for that i owe winkel a lot.
how do i play - largely as winkel says. i have a few tweaks. i'll explain some. if after 45 spins the sleepers signal say at 13 v 13 due to the ones hit once hitting and if the sleepers have slept for some time, i will play per rules. however - if on 2 losses, the 13 have missed say 7 times in a row - I will carry on playing and will ratchet up stake since they will hit.
if when i am playing, the 1's are running away with things and are say 17 with 19 zeros and 1 2, and if no 1's have hit for say 5 spins, i'll play the 1's. they will hit.
i tested tonight on rng for ease playing massive stakes starting at 10p per number. anyway after 2 hours on the multi player table, my £50 start was at £87 and i think my biggest bet having had to use an increase in stake was 35p.
there were no drawdowns of note and the 35p one was when i was being a bit careless and was up £25.
not exactly big money - but i'll take it. i'm thinking that i will eithdraw the £37 and play again tomorrow.
the way the rng played - it was like clockwork and as efficient if not more so than the real wheel. i dont know if it will continue, but i may as well see. Winkel says RNG is same. Its time to test. I have suspicions about the rng i am playing - so if this wins on it after a week, it will prove a lot to me....
winkel
Heard on TV tonight that the Germans invented the fastest shifting automobile transmission in the world.
Just thought you might like to know that perked my ears up because of what you said.
Sam
Todays RNG-spins show something interesting.
They proof
1. That is not recommended to play too long without Jump-Back
2. That crossings are sure, even if you decided to bet the wrong Group
33 0 -16 16 11 10 8 2
34 26 nr 9 16 10 11 9 2
35 24 9 16 9 12 10 2
36 28 9 15 10 12 10 2
37 6 9 15 10 12 10 2
38 11 9 14 11 12 10 2
39 9 9 13 12 12 10 2
40 15 rr -4 13 11 13 11 2
41 28 nr 21 13 10 14 12 2
42 23 21 13 10 14 11 3
43 23 21 13 10 14 11 3
44 25 21 13 9 15 12 3
45 15 21 13 9 15 11 4
46 26 21 13 9 15 10 5
47 15 21 13 9 15 10 5
48 24 21 13 9 15 9 6
49 22 21 12 10 15 9 6
50 19 21 11 11 15 9 6
51 31 21 11 11 15 8 7
52 18 21 10 12 15 8 7
53 25 21 10 12 15 7 8
54 2 21 10 12 15 6 9
55 20 21 9 13 15 6 9
56 15 21 9 13 15 6 9
57 24 21 9 13 15 6 9
58 28 21 9 13 15 5 10
59 11 21 9 12 16 6 10
60 10 21 8 13 16 6 10
61 35 21 7 14 16 6 10
62 13 21 7 14 16 6 10
63 6 21 7 14 16 6 10
64 15 21 7 14 16 6 10
65 8 21 7 13 17 7 10
66 13 21 7 13 17 7 10
67 2 21 7 13 17 7 10
1. column no. of spins
2. column spin-result
3. group to bet on (r=0;n=1; .r= on numbers of row before -> numbers that were n in the row before are bet with "nr"
4. total bankroll
5. R = "0"
6. N = "1"
7. F = ">1"
8. F2 = "2"
9. F3 = "3"
As you can see there are suddenly a lot of crossings possible.
So it is difficult to decide which to play.
spin 39
bet 0 vs 1 13vs12 or
bet 1 vs >1 12vs12
Thoughts to decide
0s are falling
1s are rising
>1s are equal in the last 3 spins
bet-decision on tendency 0 keep falling
spin 40
we´ve lost
tendency is turning
0s = equal
1s = falling
>1s = rising
new bets possible
0 vs >1 13-13
1 vs 2 11-11
if we decide on turn of tendency we bet 1vs2
1vs2 is also lower risk plus higher return
spin 41 hit and total of 21
13 10 14 12 2
here we have a kind of a roller coster
"0"s have to fall 1 to get a new crossing with "1"
"1"s have to rise 2 to get a crossing with "2"
"1"s have to rise 4 to get a crossing with ">1" (this is a sum that cannot fall only rise!!!)
"2"s have to fall at minimum 5 to get a crossing with "3"s
the "0"s are very slow since spin 25 only 5 in 16 spins. Both is possible: the slow goes on or it is a sudden fall of them.
What you bet might be wrong so better jump back!
But let´s see what is going on further down.
spin 48
in the last 7 spins nothing really happened to present a crossing.
because there were too many "2"s (due to binomial distribution) they did what they had to do: produce "3"s (4 numbers bcame "3" in 6 spins)
now we have a crossing 9-9 in "1"vs"2"
but "0" didn´t change since 10 spins
and "1" are low between two Highs ("0" and ">1")
Would you bet the "1" vs "2"?
we bet the 9 "1"s an loose two times and the trigger is gone!
13 9 15 9 6
12 10 15 9 6
11 11 15 9 6
and a new trigger appeared
"0"vs "1"
but we had just 3 "0"s in a row!!!!!!!
we bet "0"
11 11 15 8 7
we loose in the first spin and a new trigger appears "2" vs "3"
Which to bet?
a) we stay on our bet
next spin wins (result -11-11+36=+14)
10 12 15 8 7
b) we change bet to "2"
next spin we loose
2. spin we win
10 12 15 8 7
10 12 15 7 8
result -11-8-8+36= +9
c) we stay on first bet and go to second trigger after win or stopp-loss
-11-11+36-8+36=+42
next spin new trigger "0" vs "3" (here ">2"
54 2 21 10 12 15 6 9
win
55 20 21 9 13 15 6 9
and trigger still alive
even if not recommended to rebet a trigger that just won:
56 15 21 9 13 15 6 9
57 24 21 9 13 15 6 9
58 28 21 9 13 15 5 10
trogger died because higher than "0"
As I said: it is like playing chess
but even if youre decisions are wrong you won´t loose a fortune on playing this game
br
winkel
I have tried both with RNG and live sessions. In the beginning RNG worked good but then it dropped, so I think it's better to stay with live play.
as you can see in the TESTING-AREA it works everywhere the same way
br
winkel
Winkel, I believe in what you saying. I just have difficulty reading it when the numbers are so joined together.
However, we all know that RNG is different compared to live play so why wouldn't the RNG spot this kind of play like it does with all others? Still it is a 'pattern' betting.
No it is not a pattern-betting!
It is betting the binomial distribution!
the crossing is not a pattern of the numbers, it is result of the things that are going on during possibility is working.
That´s a slight but very important difference.
br
winkel
Quote from: bobco on September 07, 2008, 02:39:44 PM
Winkel, I believe in what you saying. I just have difficulty reading it when the numbers are so joined together.
However, we all know that RNG is different compared to live play so why wouldn't the RNG spot this kind of play like it does with all others? Still it is a 'pattern' betting.
what pattern do you see in this type of betting?
Quote from: theneophyte on September 07, 2008, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: bobco on September 07, 2008, 02:39:44 PM
Winkel, I believe in what you saying. I just have difficulty reading it when the numbers are so joined together.
However, we all know that RNG is different compared to live play so why wouldn't the RNG spot this kind of play like it does with all others? Still it is a 'pattern' betting.
what pattern do you see in this type of betting?
Betting 0-0, 0-1, 1-1 etc. Maybe some don't call it a pattern but in some way it is.
well - here is an interesting one.
I am prone to using progressions. this is dangerous - especially when staking in unhit numbers.
ie - if the 0's hit and you start playing - then i becomes real dangerous to continue on them with a progression.
Now my take on this is that an alcoholic cannot have a drink without getting drunk. likewise a progression person cannot have a gamble without a progression.
so here is my preferred progression for GUT. If you continue playing the zeros after 2 losses, you will endanger your bankroll. this is bad. however - if you play zeros vs 1 for example and they fail in the 2 spins - you stop. the next time that the zeros need to cross the 1's - you play per original gut advice. 1u again. if that gets repelled - then i tend to increase stake to 2u for next signal. Not much of a progression - but i reckon it satisfies the needs of a progression junkie.
Hi tuctuckster,
don´t never ever use a progression.
If your doing you need a bankroll of 1000 units minimum.
Two bad days kill you!
br
winkel
Betting 0-0, 0-1, 1-1 etc. Maybe some don't call it a pattern but in some way it is.
[/quote]
these just refer to the numbers which haven't hit, have hit once, twice, three times or more than three times.
as bets are made when the amount of numbers in two or more of these are 1 number apart or the same. I do not see how a pattern of bets can be formed as it would if you were betting say all reds or red-black or waiting for five + misses of a dozen then betting on it.
Quote from: bobco on September 08, 2008, 03:38:54 AM
Betting 0-0, 0-1, 1-1 etc. Maybe some don't call it a pattern but in some way it is.
Yes of course: 50 percent of mankind are women and 50 percent of mankind are chinese, so all women are chinese?
Hi Winkel, I wonder a few things. We know that there are losing bets and losing sessions in this. Is it better to stop for a day when you're in + or try to win a bit more? I have played, for example had + 100 units but then it went down to +20, but then went up a bit again. Maybe it's difficult to answer to know when to stop? Aim for a certain + or just stop when you're in plus or if you loose have a stoploss for a day, let's say - 50 units?
Hi Bobco,
Best answer to this:
play short
if it is a long way to next crossing jump back
stop with +50
stop with any near 0 when you started with a loss or double loss and jump back
Don´t wanna win more than +100 a day
Don´t play if you are feeling youre not getting what is going on. your decision are wrong or there are a lot of crossings to play at the same time.
don´t play multiple waves
e.g. 11 15 14 8 play
e,g, 15 10 13 6 don´t play
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 09, 2008, 06:55:26 AM
Hi Bobco,
Best answer to this:
play short
if it is a long way to next crossing jump back
stop with +50
stop with any near 0 when you started with a loss or double loss and jump back
Don´t wanna win more than +100 a day
Don´t play if you are feeling youre not getting what is going on. your decision are wrong or there are a lot of crossings to play at the same time.
don´t play multiple waves
e.g. 11 15 14 8 play
e,g, 15 10 13 6 don´t play
br
winkel
That single answer shows more truth about your system than any other thing about your system. In the end you must make decisions regarding how it's going and you must have a reasonable expectation.
@gizmotron,
do you know anything better?
As you can´t run away from house edged and can´t run away from the laws of statistics.
and remember this will survive without progression and keep your starting-bankroll.
No one can promise or expect more! Otherwise he is a liar or a burglar.
br
winkel
an if you study Markov, Kolmogorov and Döblin, you will see that there is only a little percentage that gives you the chance to win!
You need minimum 3% with European and 6% with American Roulette
If it would be easy that to beat, no one would go to work.
It is not to beat only with static rules
Hi Winkel,
This is my first post. Instead of #s why cant we try the same system with "Line bets" or six way spilits? ::)
Quote from: hideseek on September 09, 2008, 08:53:20 AM
Hi Winkel,
This is my first post. Instead of #s why cant we try the same system with "Line bets" or six way spilits? ::)
These are not chances which are played with! These are artificial selections nothing to do with the chance of 1/37
e.g. if there are 3 hits on any number in a row
you have a Line as a repeater.
If you bet on it, you also bet 2 sleepers!!!!!!!!!!!
e.g. if you have spins 35 32 35 31, you have a favorite in this double line and you have to bet 3 sleepers! 2 "1" an only 1 "2", so you bet with 5 numbers that are not favorite!!!!!!!!
do you see the misleading?
br
winkel
Thanks Winkel. Did anybody make a Programme for this system?
some posts ago there´s a link to "Gut-Tracker"
Quote from: winkel on September 09, 2008, 08:50:49 AM
@gizmotron,
do you know anything better?
As you can´t run away from house edged and can´t run away from the laws of statistics.
and remember this will survive without progression and keep your starting-bankroll.
No one can promise or expect more! Otherwise he is a liar or a burglar.
br
winkel
an if you study Markov, Kolmogorov and Döblin, you will see that there is only a little percentage that gives you the chance to win!
You need minimum 3% with European and 6% with American Roulette
If it would be easy that to beat, no one would go to work.
It is not to beat only with static rules
I have looked at hidden Markov models , dynamic programming, the Baum-Welch algorithm, and the forward-backward algorithm regarding my own use of computers to discover pattern recognition solutions. The fact that math wiz types have tried to throw me off for the past year didn't help much. Their absolute disbelief in patterns and making use of them have been doctrine widely accepted.
You ask if I've found something better, well I would suggest that you add the deliberate attack scenario. It's not enough to avoid the times when it's not working you must also have a technique to make more when it's working perfectly or very very well. I use a low flat bet during the times when I don't know what is happening. If I enter a time of it working very well I raise my flat bet by 10 times that value. It's the only time that I do that. When in doubt, go back to the basic start value.
Hi gizmo,
I didn´t ask if "you found" but if "you
know" something better.
QuoteIt's not enough to avoid the times when it's not working you must also have a technique to make more when it's working perfectly or very very well
The technique is as follows:
it is winning more often than it is loosing
avoiding bad streaks is additional to raise bankroll
it is flat bet
alwaysUsing progressions in either direction is deliberate but absolutely not necessary, it just takes a longer time recovering
QuoteWhen in doubt, go back to the basic start value.
I wonder, why you complain about my "decions to make", you do either! Or is that not a decision?
also these are decisions:
QuoteI use a low flat bet during the times when I don't know what is happening
and
QuoteIf I enter a time of it working very well I raise my flat bet by 10 times that value.
I think it is not fair telling my system not working and asking for higher levels than your own is working on.
I supplied everything of my strategy for free and am answering every question.
do YOU do that as well?
br
winkel
by the way: What is not working absolutely flat bet isn´t working with a High/Low- or progression-strategy.
My strategy is working absolutely flat-bet even if I don´t make decisions as I described in this thread. please look in the Testing-Area.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 09, 2008, 02:11:37 PM
Hi gizmo,
I didn´t ask if "you found" but if "you know" something better.
You came into my thread and said this:
QuoteRe: Past vs. Future spins, Logic vs. Mathematics
Reply #9 on: September 02, 2008, 11:15:43 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi gizmo,
it is all bound into to my G.U.T
If you read now you will understand what´s going on and what is the best decision to bet.
br
winkel
You know, I looked at your contraption and it didn't wow me. The basic concept for probability and my interest's in pattern recognition were never a satisfying finding in your system, as you claimed that they would be. I came to see what you were trolling for in my thread and you don't have it. In fact you don't have a clue. Get off my back. You are rude and condescending and I don't need it from you. I'm waiting for your followers to crash and burn because they can't make it work the way that you do. There is no charting program that triggers when to bet and that uses probability to beat the house's advantage. Don't attack me, just prove that it works. You invited me and then attacked me. I'm going to let your followers tell the true story. All those numbers you keep posting are not proof.
QuoteAll those numbers you keep posting are not proof.
please look here:
Spielbank Wiesbaden: nolinks.sbwb.de (nolinks://nolinks.sbwb.de) -> Permanenzen -> Archiv
CasinoClub: nolinks.casinoclub.com (nolinks://nolinks.casinoclub.com) (this is not the casino just the homepage) on the left side there is a link called "COUPS".
only the last 31 days are recorded, but that will be enough to proof my numbers and results.
Fine, it's proof to all those that accept it.
I do have one question though. "The Holy Gral?" I'm guessing that that was intentional, "gral synonym : grainy."
Did you really mean The Holy Grainy?
I've decided to try another tactic. This should be far more interesting for me. I'm going to program your system as a sim and it will use real spins off the internet. Then I will know. I wanted to use pattern recognition techniques and you claim it's in your system. You said everything I wanted to know was in your charting system. Well, we will see.
Would anybody be so kind to explain to me what I did to enforce this aggression?
br
winkel
winkel
I will give you 19 numbers from the CasinoWebCam wheel. It is a John Huxley Starburst. I will scan the sheet and e-mail it to myself so you will know the date and the numbers at this time. No cheating. Or I'll mail it to a third party.
OK, it's done. The email is dated Aug 23 at 10:12 PM Central Standard Time or GMT +5 I think.
Here are 19 numbers:
25
16
14
29
34
19
22 22
14 21
21 20
23 19
10 18
22 18
8 17
17 17 Win
16
36
18
18
8
1 4 36 1 0 0 0
2 24 35 2 0 0 0
3 2 34 3 0 0 0
4 11 33 4 0 0 0
5 36 32 5 0 0 0
6 34 31 6 0 0 0
7 24 31 5 1 0 0
8 26 30 6 1 0 0
9 32 29 7 1 0 0
10 9 28 8 1 0 0
11 11 28 7 2 0 0 11
12 1 27 8 2 0 0
13 10 26 9 2 0 0 10
14 8 25 10 2 0 0 9
15 6 24 11 2 0 0 8
16 29 23 12 2 0 0 7
17 7 22 13 2 0 0 7 Win
18 21 21 14 2 0 0
Un saludo cordial, Edgardo
Mr. Chips,
It's also a good idea to hear a little common sense once in a while. Without it, we would have the "Holy Grail" posted at least five times a day.
In many ways it's more important to show why a system will fail, then is to post the system in the first place. When a system takes on a title like the "Holy Grail", it's the duty of those of us that know better to demonstrate why the system will fail.
To date, every system posted will fail. Learning how and why each system will fail will enable they system designers to learn from their mistakes.
You may still consider it to be rude of us to point out the flaws, but if you're really paying attention, you will discover that it's really a learning experience that's taking place.
Constructive criticism is a very good thing to have on a gambling systems forum. Without it, everyone would be running around betting the house and losing with the latest "Holy Grail".
By the way, the keyword here is "constructive criticism". Don't make the mistake of insulting people with personal attacks if you're choosing to criticize someone's system on the board.
-Herb
I believe (and who cares?) if a person states they have the Holy Grail, they would love to prove it. winkel is trying to do just that.
When Victor completes his "Great and Wonderful Number Spitting Contraption" a tester will be able to input 100 numbers and the tested will be able to get them one at a time. He will bet and we will see the next number come and know if he loses or wins.
How Victor came up with this idea is beyond me. The man is a well........
Sam
I can speak from personal experience to this matter.
Few--no-- extremely few, people would have the tenacity to learn this system and do the rigorous testing necessary to learn the subjective portion of the system. It really gets old. Memorizing the Groups helps, but it still gets boring very quickly.
What about tweaks? Oh, I have had a few ideas. But if it works, why tweak it? What if you tweak it the wrong way?
This system is logic-based. While I'm a firm believer in VooDoo Roulette, I am more comfortable with the reality-based systems.
So I will continue to---hak kaf ahem--"chip" away at the beast.
Sam
winkel
OK, I have figured it out and am ready to run a few tests in my "spare" time. Here are the questions:
1. Do you recommend a 50 spin trot?
2. Do you recommend a dollar-won figure?
3. How do you know when to stop when you're winning?
4. Is there a loss limit?"
Thanks for all your work on this.
I'll try not to ask too many questions!
Now, ol' Chips himself is rolling on the floor!!
Sam
Hi TCS
1. Yes
2. don´t know what that means
3.
a) 40+ after 2 wins jump back
b) recovering after a loss
4. Automatic Stopp-Loss:
a) 2 bets lost
b) trigger is gone
br
winkel
Quoteready to run a few tests in my "spare" time.
Sam, isn't
one holy grail enough for you?
This is just being greedy! >:( ;D
some more basics:
as far as we know there can be 33 numbers or just 15 numbers appearing in 37 spins.
relating to this strategy:
1. If there are 33 nmumbers we will have absolutely no crossing "0"vs"1" because after 19-18 at "0" vs "">0" the "1" will never be lower than the "0"s
as there wil be nearly no "2"s we will have no crossing "1"vs"2" or "1" ">1"
2. If there are only 15 numbers appearing we will have no crossing "0" vs any
There will be a crossing "1"vs">1" and "1"vs"2" maximum 8units to bet absolutely no risc.
So we we are safe for getting in extrem situations.
We will only bet if we are near to binomial distribution.
The "Law of the Third" doesn´t only tell, that there are app. 24 numbers hit, 12 not, and 12 more often than once in 37 spins.
If we break the 37 spins in 3 parts: 13spins/12spins/12spins
and make a statistic on it we will get this result:
spin 1-13: app. 10-11 unhit numbers appear
spin 14-25: app. 8 unhit numbers appear
spin 26-37: app. 6 unhit numbers appear
and
spin 38-50: app. 4-5 unhit numbers appear
total after 37 spins 24-25
total after 37 spins 28-30
We can be sure:
If in spin 1-13 were more/less than 10 numbers: in spin 14-25 there will be mostly 8 numbers
If in spin 14-25 were more/less than 8 numbers: in spin 26-37 there will be mostly 6 numbers
If ins pin 26-37 were more/less than 6 numbers: in spin 38-50 there will be mostly 4-5 numbers.
during watching whats going on, we just check if the above statistical values are hit or not.
br
winkel
ALL......
The G.U.T Tracker software is excellent!
I'm seeing some great results from what I've done so far. I will run a few hundred numbers over the next few days and then begin the test.
It (so far) really does work just like he says. 11-10 becomes 10-11 and so forth.
Whomever wrote this software and winkel both: I'll buy you a cold one at the TwoCat Saloon!
Thanks
Sam
Sam,
Yes - Winkel will go down as a legend. This does deliver the goods.
The key is patience since when things are not great, you spend an hour at the wheel and you break even or make £1. Mmmmm. That'll do me.
When things are good, its a grind but an efficient grind.
CONTROL is everything! There are so many easy mistakes to slip into it is bizarre! All of them seem logical but they are dangerous and can cause a blip.
I have actually had another discovery which i cannot post here. There was a syatem posted that was copyrighted or something and which was removed. Luckily i downloaded it before it was removed. The system is a loser. However - i have found it to have amazing results when coupled with a scenario that arises from time to time on here. I will test it further, but i dont know where i stand from a sharing it view point on here.
tt
Naturally it is up to you whether or not you disclose your discovery, but to name the System or program and tell how you use it is certainly OK. I am using the Chicco Flash software in conjunction with the murph system. I have not given Chicco's software away or violated any copyright laws.
I know I have a lot of study to do on the G.U.T. As winkel says, practice!
Thanks for your post.
Please consider revealing your discovery. I'm assuming it is a double-advantage system of some sort. By that I mean waiting until two systems pick the same number.
Sam
sam,
I'll send you a PM. Early days on testing. In effect it is a system that was great when won and awful when lost. I think GUT may identify a scenario when it is more likely to win than not creating an explosive performace.
so when a condition flashes u play it.
I am thinking that you can give me a view on whether it can be shared, since the system was removed and without detailing the system - it is sort os useless.
tuck
We may have to kick this upstairs to Victor! I'll read!
Thanks a ton.
Sam
winkel
The G.U.T. seems to be working quite well. Tonight I stuck with it until about spin 80 and got a nice win where 2 and 3 crossed and then where 3 and >3 crossed. Both only had about five or six numbers, so the profit would have been good.
Thanks!!
Sam
I have played this for real for more than a week and I'm satisfied with the result. I tried with RNG also but that didn't seem to work so good. Maybe I make a second try with RNG.
Thanks Winkel! :)
Quote from: tucktuckster on September 11, 2008, 05:39:42 AM
In effect it is a system that was great when won and awful when lost.
So is this system worthy of the name at the start of the heading... The holy grail????
tuckster was talking about another system which is much better adding the hints of G.U.T
so G.U.T is worth the name!
br
winkel
Fluker
This idea of winkel's is definitely worth the time it takes to study and learn it. Use the Tracker software.
Sam
I have tested GUT a lot.
It works. Full stop.
The hard part is learning some of the dynamics around which option to choose when 2 etc.
The simple rules for success with GUT are as follows:
- If in doubt - sit on your hands. If doubt exists, wait for the next crossing when there is no doubt. It will come.
- Never panic or get greedy. If you lose 2 or 3 in a row, stick with it. If the string you are playing is losing and you are -40, retrack and continue, the wins will come.
- re-read this thread. there are loads of hints and tips in there and it helps to re-read.
I find this a real hard one to play in live play due to tracking but is good with GUT tracker
Quote from: tucktuckster on September 12, 2008, 05:01:13 PM
The simple rules for success with GUT are as follows:
- If in doubt - sit on your hands. If doubt exists, wait for the next crossing when there is no doubt. It will come.
- Never panic or get greedy. If you lose 2 or 3 in a row, stick with it. If the string you are playing is losing and you are -40, retrack and continue, the wins will come.
- re-read this thread. there are loads of hints and tips in there and it helps to re-read.
I find this a real hard one to play in live play due to tracking but is good with GUT tracker
[smiley=thumbsup.gif] Yes: you got the way to play!
Playing it live is difficult, I know.
You have to learn to stay cool and not to get in hurry.
best tipp:
if there is a difference of 2 or 3 so next crossing is possible,
prepare your chips for that amount
write down the numbers separately
if the crossing is up, cancel the number that came up and go and bet.
e.g for crossing "0" vs "1"
14-11
if a "0" spins up we will have 13-12
13-11
if a "0" soins up we will have 12-12
e.g. we have these 14 numbers
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
spin is 8
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ( 8 ) 9 10 11 12 13 14
go and bet
br
winkel
okay - systems to use with GUT.
no idea if this will work, but i have seen a few trends and i suspect it should.
When GUT tracker is showing a large % of zeros hitting and not repeating (ie - spins = 32, zeros = 12, 1's 20, >1 = 6, then we know the following, the zeros on this strem are ahead of themselves, the 1's are underhit and there are likely to a series of 1's being hit. The average number of 1's is around 14 and is many at present.
So how do we use this? There is no guarantee that the 1's will hit. We cannot play them all and flat bet and hope. They could miss for another 8 spins and we would be -160. For this reason we do not want to play a serious progression.
How about we look to see if there is a 12 that has an amount of 1's but none have repeated. If we do, then we play these numbers (probably 6 or 7 of them) and use an attilla style progression (seems fashionable at moment).
Why the 12 with no hits? How often do you see a 12 with 12 numbers lit up and no repeats?
Another option would be to look at the 12 with the most 1's that hit in past 10 spins say and play this, especially if it has been less hit 12.
If there are just 6 1's to play, maybe we should throw in the zero with the six 1's to give us 7 numbers.
I have not tested this, but is similar to something else that appears to work.
apologies to winkel for suggesting a system to play with his system.
gut works great. it does not need any other system.
however - i want to stimulate debate since no system is ever rigid. And i do not want to be someone on here who just takes others ideas and does not contribute ideas of their own.
when i played with my commodore 64 it worked well. Luckily someone found something better and we all now have it. i am pleased that simply didnnt just stick with a commodore 64 or zx spectrum.
Hi tuck,
as I mentioned before: what you are saying is part of other "Grail" I call "Das große Spiel "The big Game"
This is quite complicated to play and due to my bad English I cannot translate.
What you see can make a bet-decision, but you have to look at a lot of statistical Figure and compare to them.
If You play this you can start betting at spin 14 and bet until 50 with a win of 150units average.
"G.U.T" is one of the "simple" Bet-triggers in this Game.
"Homebooking System" is another
the parting of 50 spins in 4 sectors 13-12-12-13 is a must of control whats going on
the Rule of the "Law of the Third" 10-8-6-4 "0"s per sector is the red hering
Please believe me that is all thought through by me. If you´re in doubt look at the german forum nolinks.roulette-board.de (nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de) There the most read Thread: Favoriten - Restanten
br
winkel
Winkel,
your english is not bad. It is very good.
It is far better than my grasp of any second language which is very poor. but that is a cultural deficiency of my upbringing.
winkel
Please take a look at this:
[attachimg=#]
My next number to come was 1 which is in the >3 column. Is there ever a time when you bet the >3?
Sam
After the hit in spin 78 we have 11 12 11(5-6)
When I get to such close combination I usually jump back
but luckily there was another hit in spin 79 by betting the "1"s and we get 11 11 12(6-6) 2 triggers at the same time I wouldnt bet.
At last here I would jump back.
Make a test: Jump back 20 spins a take a new session, you will find a crossing at the same spins
Hope I could you answer the way you expected
br
winkel
I'm new here...I am also new to roulette. Would anyone be so kind to explain this system in smaller easier stages so I can take it in?
I've been in this thread for a long time..sorry..it just isn't clicking for me and i do like the sound of this.
I understand if you think that maybe enough has been said...but i am very new to the game.
Thank you :)
Hi darren,
two problems:
1. When you are new to roulette you will problems to understand what´s going on.
2. This strategy is very simple, use the GUT-Tracker and read the thread very well. If you don´t understand don´t play this game.
br
winkel
Thanks Winkel...I'll read some more...I'm sure it'll click :)
Darren.
Darren
Welcome to the forum.
I have spent hours studying this thing winkel has created/discovered. It is not an easy read and it is just now starting to click in my mind. Winkel said to test it and study it and it will start to come to you. He is right. It is coming to me! Finally!
The software Droidman created is the Cat's Meow when working this system. Use the version 2 that let's you erase and jump back. I wish I knew when to jump back!
winkel has given about a hundred tiny pieces of advice sprinkled throughout this thread. When to bet and not to bet. I'm an ol' tightwad, but I'm thinking about printing this entire thread for a booklet to take to the litter box.
Sam
tWOCAT,
How were you able to copy the GUT software and post your results like that with the black screen? I tried to do that before but I was not successful, it would not let me copy and paste?
When there has been a crossing once in a session, for example it was 1 - 2 but there was only 7 numbers to play so you didn't. Then it crosses next time. Is it advisable to bet on this again, 1 - 2 when you for example have 10 - 9? Or avoid this and go for 0 - 1 instead? Sorry for me English, hope you understand.
Mad
Let me make a tutorial movie on this, It will only run about two minutes. I will post it here.
Sam
Quote from: t0p_man on September 13, 2008, 02:46:37 AM
Prof. Winkel,
Thanks for sharing.
You mentioned that you tested millions of games. Would you like to share what is the longest losing streak in a row? If we know this important figure, progression betting is possible.
For example, longest streak for a "Red" was 30 times in a row. If we managed to martiganle 31 times, we never lose, unless record is broken.
Pls guide us, thanks.
I have not recorded a longest loosing streak.
Why do you wanna use a progression? It will kill you even with a winning system.
Look at testing zone and try to put a progression on it, if you want. I don´t even think about one, what for?
br
winkel
Hi bobco,
if you come to a point to make a decision and you are not sure, do it like tucktuckster sayed:
Quote- If in doubt - sit on your hands. If doubt exists, wait for the next crossing when there is no doubt. It will come.
br
winkel
Mad
Here ya go..........Wat a few seconds for the video to appear and then double click on the arrow. Click until you get to Motion Box and find the scroll bar at the bottom and enlarge to full screen.
nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/709dddbf151ae6f9/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/709dddbf151ae6f9/)
I made an improved version of the tracker, it adds extra columns for >1 and >2 so it's easier to see all the crossings. No need to add together the columns anymore!
Quote from: Boo_Ray on September 13, 2008, 03:11:48 PM
Hey Winkel I want to take this system test on another level.. Would you type main points how to decide when you decide that it is too risky to bet and when it is safest to bet..
currently system is running on +105u I am testing with hamburg spins on RX
Hi Boo_Ray,
I will answer here.
risky:
1. The crossing shows to bet, but the group to bet on did hit more than 4 times in a row just before:
19-11
18-12
17-13
16-14
15-15 risky to bet the 15
2. There is more than on crossing available
13-13-12-12
11-13-13-11
3. It there is no clean wave to come up
a clean wave = 14-13-10-6 or 11-14-13-6
bad waves = 14-9-14-9 or 11-13-10-12
4. The "0" are too much in front
spin 20 19-18-2
spin 21 18-19-2
spin 22 18-18-3
spin 23 17-19-3
spin 24 17-18-4
spin 25 17-17-5 bad bet
best bets:
all groups had a hit in the last spins
17-14-10-2
17-13-11-2 (1)
16-14-11-2 (0)
16-14-11-3 (2)
15-15-11-3 (0)
br
winkel
todays RNG-chart give a good example of bad und good bets
1 7 36 1 0 0 0
2 16 35 2 0 0 0
3 19 34 3 0 0 0
4 35 33 4 0 0 0
5 32 32 5 0 0 0
6 36 31 6 0 0 0
7 14 30 7 0 0 0
8 27 29 8 0 0 0
9 11 28 9 0 0 0
10 1 27 10 0 0 0
11 3 26 11 0 0 0
12 32 26 10 1 1 0
13 5 25 11 1 1 0
14 1 0 1 / 0 0 25 10 2 2 0
15 27 0 1 / 0 0 25 9 3 3 0
16 19 0 1 / 0 0 25 8 4 4 0
17 22 0 0 / 0 0 24 9 4 4 0
18 29 0 0 / 0 0 23 10 4 4 0
19 26 0 0 / 0 0 22 11 4 4 0
20 9 0 0 / 0 0 21 12 4 4 0
21 21 0 0 / 0 0 20 13 4 4 0
22 7 0 1 / 0 0 20 12 5 5 0
23 26 0 0 / 0 0 20 11 6 6 0
24 3 0 1 / 0 0 20 10 7 7 0
25 17 0 0 / 0 0 19 11 7 7 0 Average 18 numbers hit at spin 25
26 30 0 0 / 0 0 18 12 7 7 0
27 22 0 1 / 0 0 18 11 8 8 0
28 29 0 1 / 0 0 18 10 9 9 0
29 25 0 0 / 0 0 17 11 9 9 0
30 33 0 0 / 0 0 16 12 9 9 0
31 33 0 0 / 0 0 16 11 10 10 0
32 22 0 2 / 0 0 16 11 10 9 1 good mix 3x"0", 2x"1", 1x"2"
33 6 0 0 / 0 0 15 12 10 9 1
34 8 0 0 / 0 0 14 13 10 9 1
35 4 rr 14 0 G 22 22 13 14 10 9 1 good bet
36 5 0 1 / 0 22 13 13 11 10 1 bad decision to make 2 crossings
37 25 rr 13 1 V -13 9 13 12 12 11 1 the wave is good again 13-12-11 (first 12 is sum ">1")
38 34 rr 13 0 G 23 32 12 13 12 11 1 bad decision to make 3 crossings
39 15 0 0 / 0 32 11 14 12 11 1 bad decsion because in spin 40 just 1 triple-number
40 7 rr 11 2 V -11 21 11 14 12 10 2 lost you can see the triples are bound to grow
41 15 rr 11 1 V -11 10 11 13 13 11 2 bad decision to make 2 crossings but all chances had a hit "0" didn´t hit since 3 spins
42 13 rr 11 0 G 25 35 10 14 13 11 2 risky to bet the 14-13 due to missing triples it is more likely that they will grow
43 1 0 2 / 0 35 10 14 13 10 3 now a triple has hit 14-13 is now a good bet because 1-0-2 is the hit-row
44 8 nr 14 1 G 22 57 10 13 14 11 3
45 32 0 2 / 0 57 10 13 14 10 4
46 7 rr 10 3 V -10 47 10 13 14 10 4
47 6 rr 10 1 V -10 37 10 12 15 11 4
48 1 rr 10 3 V -10 27 10 12 15 11 4
49 29 0 2 / 0 27 10 12 15 10 5
50 36 0 1 / 0 27 10 11 16 11 5
look at the last hits 1 2 3 1 3 2 of course the last one is a 1
as you see if there are rhytms play on them
Thanks alot for tips on optimal play [smiley=afro.gif]
I will do tests tomorow because it is getting late here..
Constructive criticism is a very good thing to have on a gambling systems forum. >>>
No No NO, critisism of any kind is detrimental to the creativity of the system designer. He will learn the hard way, through the loss of his BR, that no mechanical system will ever beat roulette. The designer should be allowed full reign, with no opposition, so that he can discover the error of his ways in his own fashion..
Winkel,
Are you think that is reliable make a bot to play using this system 24 hours/day? I made some bots in the past, to play using martigale based system, but it wiped out my entire bankroll...
Thanks.
I don´t trust bots!
Every OC will have a control of players being around for 24 hours making bets.
br
winkel
Quote from: t0p_man on September 14, 2008, 06:12:30 AM
If we want to bet on "numbers that not appears"
Column 0 vs 1 OR 0 vs 1+2+3+>3. The different must be 0 or 1
so it is
Quote from: t0p_man on September 14, 2008, 06:12:30 AM
If we want to bet on "numbers that appears once"
column 1 vs 2+3+>3. Can it be column 1 vs 2 only or must be sum of 2+3+>3??
both are possible
Quote from: t0p_man on September 14, 2008, 06:12:30 AM
Am I heading to the right direction?
Yes
@all
please note that the sums are only going straight upwards, so you can´t bet them "falling"
br
winkel
I played longer than usual today with this. My goal is just to make a win or take a loss that is as small as possible. I could have stopped at - 7 units but I continued too see how it would do. Was down to -75 but I was amazed to see how good it recovered to - 20. Could have stopped there but played one more time. Stopped at - 35. Still in plus over the time. The more experienced you get, the better you play I guess.
I only compare the hits 0-1 and 1- 2 >. Find that more easier.
Hi,
first of all you didn´t use the Stopp-Loss-Rule: bet Trigger with 12 numbers max. 3 times (you have closed with +14)
Coups Permanenz R N F Rr Nr Fr lfd. Saldo R N F F2 F3
1 31 36 1 0 0 0
2 36 35 2 0 0 0
3 36 35 1 1 1 0
4 5 34 2 1 1 0
5 19 33 3 1 1 0
6 23 32 4 1 1 0
7 28 31 5 1 1 0
8 28 31 4 2 2 0
9 30 30 5 2 2 0
10 5 30 4 3 3 0
11 31 30 3 4 4 0
12 22 29 4 4 4 0
13 16 28 5 4 4 0
14 36 0 28 5 4 3 1
15 0 0 27 6 4 3 1
16 30 0 27 5 5 4 1
17 8 0 26 6 5 4 1
18 35 0 25 7 5 4 1
19 31 0 25 7 5 3 2
20 16 0 25 6 6 4 2
21 14 0 24 7 6 4 2
22 22 0 24 6 7 5 2
23 7 0 23 7 7 5 2
24 29 0 22 8 7 5 2
25 8 0 22 7 8 6 2
26 35 0 22 6 9 7 2
27 16 0 22 6 9 6 3
28 15 0 21 7 9 6 3
29 10 0 20 8 9 6 3
30 27 0 19 9 9 6 3
31 6 0 18 10 9 6 3 at this point and if you are experienced: 4 "0" in a row bet on "1" possible
32 6 0 18 9 10 7 3 *look*
33 35 0 18 9 10 6 4
34 6 0 18 9 10 5 5
35 4 0 17 10 10 5 5
36 33 nr -10 16 11 10 5 5
37 15 nr 15 16 10 11 6 5
38 36 15 16 10 11 6 5
39 8 15 16 10 11 5 6
40 21 15 15 11 11 5 6 because "0" are still very slow another crossing 11-11 is playable
41 19 nr 40 15 10 12 6 6 *look*
42 28 40 15 10 12 5 7
43 0 40 15 9 13 6 7 bad wave as described a few posts earlier: best Idea is to jump back
44 25 40 14 10 13 6 7 here a bet "0" vs ">1" is possible 14-13
45 18 40 13 11 13 6 7 *hit* and another cross 13-13
46 13 40 12 12 13 6 7 *hit*
47 33 rr 28 12 11 14 7 7
48 16 rr 21 12 11 14 7 7
49 35 rr 14 12 11 14 7 7
50 33 14 12 11 14 6 8
if you had played like this (I know and therefore I recommend a lot of testing) it needs experience
here the results:
30 27 0 19 9 9 6 3
31 6 0 18 10 9 6 3
32 6 nr 26 18 9 10 7 3
33 35 26 18 9 10 6 4
34 6 26 18 9 10 5 5
35 4 26 17 10 10 5 5
36 33 nr 16 16 11 10 5 5
37 15 nr 41 16 10 11 6 5
38 36 41 16 10 11 6 5
39 8 41 16 10 11 5 6
40 21 41 15 11 11 5 6
41 19 nr 66 15 10 12 6 6
42 28 66 15 10 12 5 7
43 0 66 15 9 13 6 7
44 25 66 14 10 13 6 7
45 18 rr 88 13 11 13 6 7
46 13 rr 111 12 12 13 6 7
47 33 rr 99 12 11 14 7 7
48 16 rr 92 12 11 14 7 7
49 35 rr 85 12 11 14 7 7
50 33 85 12 11 14 6 8
br
winkel
I´m sorry
my table shows "0" "1" ">1" "2" ">2" that might be confusing.
simple bet rule: The chance to bet vst the next chance or vs the sum of all higher chances
0 vs 1 or >0
1 vs 2 or vs >1
2 vs 3 or vs >2
also
0 vs 2 or >1
1 vs 3 or >2
and again: be carefull: sums are not falling!!!!!!! You can only bet the lower Chance to fall under the sum
br
winkel
Just stopping by.......
I've run this sucker a few times and I find that if you only waited for a low-number crossing between 0 and 1--say 14 vs 13 down to 12 vs 11--this thing has a pretty salty win record.
I do not have time to put it to the proper test. Still, it looks very good.
Sam
I´ve been asked several times on PM:
QuoteIs it possible to learn your other system? Like the big game and the other 3?
1. my English isn´t good enough to describe the other one´s
2. They are much complicated and need the daily spins of the Casino-Table (or 24hrs-spins of RNG) they should be played on. They base on a combined TimeWindow and Tendency-Watch on the combination of the "0";"1";">1"
3. If you are interested and can read German The basics are here: nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?showtopic=2376&view=findpost&p=36812 (nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?showtopic=2376&view=findpost&p=36812)
4. Part of "Homebooking System" here in this forum
5. Pattern-System on EC´s here: nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?showtopic=2377&view=findpost&p=36819 (nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?showtopic=2377&view=findpost&p=36819)
br
winkel
br
winkel
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 14, 2008, 09:50:26 PM
Just stopping by.......
I've run this sucker a few times and I find that if you only waited for a low-number crossing between 0 and 1--say 14 vs 13 down to 12 vs 11--this thing has a pretty salty win record.
I do not have time to put it to the proper test. Still, it looks very good.
Sam
I have found this exact thing Sam!
Quote from: Lohnro on September 15, 2008, 06:46:01 AM
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 14, 2008, 09:50:26 PM
Just stopping by.......
I've run this sucker a few times and I find that if you only waited for a low-number crossing between 0 and 1--say 14 vs 13 down to 12 vs 11--this thing has a pretty salty win record.
I do not have time to put it to the proper test. Still, it looks very good.
Sam
I have found this exact thing Sam!
When I was testing I was seeing the same thing. Perhaps we can figure out when the optimal times are to place bets on all the different crossings to maximize our wins and minimize out losses?
Winkel, surely from your extensive testing you must've noticed trends where you were seeing higher than average wins at different times?
Sorry, don´t let me be misunderstood:
What you are trying leeds you into "Gamblers Fallacy"
e.g. if you were only playing one crossing 14-13 on "0"vs"1" you will have the natural probability of 14/37 and you will loose your -2,7% long Term.
Therefore we have to play all possible crossings at any time they appear.
What´s the difference:
In average we will loose 2 times winning 1 times.
[table=,] , , results , , , ,
# to bet , 1 W , 1L/1W , 2L/1W , 3L/1W , 3L/2w , tot
17 , 19 , 2 , -15 , -32 , 4 , -22
16 , 20 , 4 , -12 , -28 , 8 , -8
15 , 21 , 6 , -9 , -24 , 12 , 6
14 , 22 , 8 , -6 , -20 , 16 , 20
13 , 23 , 10 , -3 , -16 , 20 , 34
12 , 24 , 12 , 0 , -12 , 24 , 48
11 , 25 , 14 , 3 , -8 , 28 , 62
10 , 26 , 16 , 6 , -4 , 32 , 76
9 , 27 , 18 , 9 , 0 , 36 , 90
8 , 28 , 20 , 12 , 4 , 40 , 104
7 , 29 , 22 , 15 , 8 , 44 , 118
6 , 30 , 24 , 18 , 12 , 48 , 132
, , , , , ,
, 294 , 156 , 18 , -120 , 312 , 660
[/table]
What we do by playing all combinations: we try to produce a constant win by a mix of all results!!!!!!
Therefore we have to risk to loose in extrem a set of all combinations like Boo_Ray did
If we are in a loosing streak on 14-13, there will be winning streaks on the other combinations which recover our bankroll
If we avoid winning on ohter combinations we avoid recovering.
The less we play the more we loose!!!!!!!
br
winkel
Thank you for correcting me winkel.
I will print and study your chart. I just saw a lot of winners, but I may have just been seeing luck.
Sam
"If we do this, If we do that.........."
Be careful. These "if" statements are a sign that you are curve fitting your bet selections to change the results.
Herb
You are right in many cases. Half way through the study someone says, "If we just bet on Tuesday......."
At the races a fellow actually did a study of a certain jockey riding a gray horse on Sundays and going off at 5-1 or greater. Guess what? Showed a profit at years end.
But to me winkel is saying, "If you weld without a helmet you will go blind." A very proper use of the word, don't you think?
Sam
If YOU Idiot would have read the question, you would´nt write such a mess.
I just argued why it is not recommendable to change rules or selection. If he does, he will loose.
You can´t express a negotiation in an other way.
The "if-clause" wasn´t used for describing the bet selection in a way to curve fitting the rules to make the strategy win.
That might be your way to argue, not mine.
QuoteConstructive criticism is a very good thing to have on a gambling systems forum.
this is your sentence.
but you and constructive criticism are as near as the North Pole to the South Pole
no regards
winkel
Winkel,
I'll ignore the name calling this time.
I was referring to all of the if statements made by everyone, not just you.
Yes, my criticism is constructive, and merited. :)
You are jeust using empty phrases. Youz didn´t give any argument, why any system should loose
Winkel,
In the above post, I wasn't talking about how that would make the system lose. Just that all of the curve fitting isn't beneficial to the testing.
I've already posted in the past how the system would perform over the long term. I don't see any reason as to why I should expalin it again.
You didn´t explain in any way
any one in here any good at translating german for the other systems?
big concern that winkel's english is so good and yet he is not confident to translate so not sure how good an online translation would be (my guess is poor)
i think that Winkel english is very good
english is not my first language as i am from France but i can understand every post from Winkel
it will be nice if Winkel would have time to explain his other systems
i have tried automatic translation from german to french it is very bad
thank in advance Winkel
ntm from france
Hi guys!
This is my 2nd reply to the forum. I am very new.
I think I found something...
Ok, here goes:
With a 40 number spin, how many crossing can you find?
Instead of opening one tracker, open 6 Tracker!!!!
Start entering numbers like this:
No.1 -----> 1st tracker
No.2 -----> 1st and 2nd tracker
No.3 -----> 1st, 2nd and 3rd tracker
No.4 -----> 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th tracker
No.5 -----> 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th tracker
No.6 -----> All tracker
No.7-40--> All tracker
Example :
[table=,]
Spin No,Tracker 1, Tracker 2, Tracker 3, Tracker 4, Tracker 5, Tracker 6
1,36,-,-,-,-,-
2,7,7,-,-,-,-
3,21,21,21,-,-,-
4,25,25,25,25,-,-
5,16,16,16,16,16,-
6,32,32,32,32,32,32
7,3,3,3,3,3,3
8,29,29,29,29,29,29
9,2,2,2,2,2,2
10,14,14,14,14,14,14
11,4,4,4,4,4,4
12,19,19,19,19,19,19
13,25,25,25,25,25,25
14,22,22,22,22,22,22
15,4,4,4,4,4,4
16,2,2,2,2,2,2
17,35,35,35,35,35,35
18,5,5,5,5,5,5
19,17,17,17,17,17,17
20,1,1,1,1,1,1
21,3,3,3,3,3,3
22,6,6,6,6,6,6
23,19,19,19,19,19,19
24,23,23,23,23,23,23
25,6,6,6,6,6,6
26,17,17,17,17,17,17
27,36,36,36,36,36,36
28,26,26,26,26,26,26
29,30,30,30,30,30,30
30,20,20,20,20,20,20
31,10,10,10,10,10,10
32,32,32,32,32,32,32
33,6,6,6,6,6,6
34,11,11,11,11,11,11
35,31,31,31,31,31,31
36,13,13,13,13,13,13
37,2,2,2,2,2,2
38,25,25,25,25,25,25
39,10,10,10,10,10,10
40,30,30,30,30,30,30
[/table]
GREEN = Crossing and Win
RED = No Crossing and Lost
BLUE = Crossing but no bets
- = No entry ( Don't key in numbers, wait for next number)
Conclusion:
By delaying an entry, the crossing MAY be different. Thus, we have different crossing for different tracker.
However, there are also some crossing which are the same (Eg. Spin No.31, Number 10)(Eg. Spin No.35, Number 31).
Tracker 1: Crossing after 15 vs 14 ---> bet 15, win 35 ---> +20
Tracker 2: Crossing after 15 vs 15 ---> bet 15, win 35 ---> +20
Tracker 3: Crossing after 15 vs 15 ---> bet 15, loss 15 ---> -15
Crossing after 15 vs 14 ---> bet 15, loss 15 ---> -15
Tracker 4: Crossing after 15 vs 14 ---> bet 15, win 35 ---> +20
Tracker 5: Crossing after 16 vs 15 ---> bet 16, loss 16 ---> -16
Tracker 6: Crossing after 15 vs 15 ---> bet 15, win 35 ---> +20
If we bet on all tracker ( even if it has been bet in other tracker),
total net profit = 20+20-15-15+20-16+20
= +34 (use total BR 106)
If we bet (no double betting),
total net profit = 20 (no. 10) - 16 (no. 32) - 15 (no.6) + 15 (no. 31) + 15 (no. 13)
= +19 ( use total BR 75)
Assume: No.32 has 15 vs 15(tracker 3) and 16 vs 15 (tracker 5), we bet on tracker 5's 16 numbers.
If tracking back 18 numbers or 20 numbers will work, this will work too!! Because I believe it uses the same concept.
After you finish with these spin result, retrack back all the trackers!!!
Multi Tracking = Multi Crossing = Multi Wins!!!!!
Is the GUT getting more interesting or what?
Same spin result, more betting chance~!
@ SAM and Lohnro, no need to wait for long spins to find a suitable bet!
@ Winkel, is this thoery possible? The results seems ok.
@ Boo, this is what i am trying to ask you the other day about GUT.
I think this need more testing and spins to prove!
Thanks for reading!
NoBody
Hi Nobody,
this will call Herb, because with this we are going straight to the point of knowing the next number to come.
It follows what I said some days ago: If you have a 100 spins and jump back only one spin (thats what you do with your multiple tracker)
you will find one crossing on the same spins over different trackers.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1221560577.png&hash=288bab94d96d31795401a4ebf4061a7a9b02f644)
This is my tracker.
as you see, there are different sheets exactly; 111
every sheet has control over 50 spins
1. 1-50
2. 2-51
3. 3-52
....
111. 111-161
in all I control 161 spins I can jump forward and backward I can control whether there are opposite crossings (page 15 say 0vs1 and page 5 says 1vs2 I don´t bet!
But that is for herb and gizmotron: this enables to play (following Kolmogorof) thee difference between these two crossings.
But that is another thing.
br
winkel
@ Nobody
Multi tracking = Multi wins = Multi profit.
Why not just track and build up profit to bet 2units instead of 1 and then you have double profit and then build up bank more and bet 3u and then you have even more profit.
I try and track with 3 different tracks. i tend to have them around 10 to 15 spins apart. Why - the tracker goes back to spin 20. so you want one around spin 30 odd and one around spin 40 odd when 1 on spin 20. when one is dying, 1 should come alive and 1 be alive.
I find 3 complex and hard to get all bets on in time and do analysis - so adding into the mix the concept of betting on multi ones all at once, thats a hell of a lot of bets to placed in a short space of time.
I am pretty sure it will work, but for now I am happy playing it as winkel explains since i am pretty damn sure he didnt move on to advanced play after a few weeks and i am guessing that i have a good amount of learning to do before i am ready to move on to more advanced play.
This is the things with systems. Maybe this is why winkel provides links to the other posts in german rather than posting here. We have not mastered driving a mini and yet we want to hit the freeway in a porsche. it makes sense that we have a bump or two in the mini first before test driving the porsche......
Quote from: tucktuckster on September 16, 2008, 09:06:06 AM
@ Nobody
Multi tracking = Multi wins = Multi profit.
Why not just track and build up profit to bet 2units instead of 1 and then you have double profit and then build up bank more and bet 3u and then you have even more profit.
I try and track with 3 different tracks. I tend to have them around 10 to 15 spins apart. Why - the tracker goes back to spin 20. so you want one around spin 30 odd and one around spin 40 odd when 1 on spin 20. when one is dying, 1 should come alive and 1 be alive.
I find 3 complex and hard to get all bets on in time and do analysis - so adding into the mix the concept of betting on multi ones all at once, thats a hell of a lot of bets to placed in a short space of time.
I am pretty sure it will work, but for now I am happy playing it as winkel explains since I am pretty damn sure he didnt move on to advanced play after a few weeks and I am guessing that I have a good amount of learning to do before I am ready to move on to more advanced play.
This is the things with systems. Maybe this is why winkel provides links to the other posts in german rather than posting here. We have not mastered driving a mini and yet we want to hit the freeway in a porsche. it makes sense that we have a bump or two in the mini first before test driving the porsche......
@TTT
Yes, to monitor more than one tracker is a tough job and also to place the bet is not easy to practice.
If only we can programme a program that can show result of the multi tracker like the one winkel is having, tracking will be a lot easier.
What I am saying is by using more than one tracker, we can track more possible crossing and bet on it!
Nobody
Quote from: winkel on September 16, 2008, 07:28:59 AM
Hi Nobody,
this will call Herb, because with this we are going straight to the point of knowing the next number to come.
It follows what I said some days ago: If you have a 100 spins and jump back only one spin (thats what you do with your multiple tracker)
you will find one crossing on the same spins over different trackers.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1221560577.png&hash=288bab94d96d31795401a4ebf4061a7a9b02f644)
This is my tracker.
as you see, there are different sheets exactly; 111
every sheet has control over 50 spins
1. 1-50
2. 2-51
3. 3-52
....
111. 111-161
in all I control 161 spins I can jump forward and backward I can control whether there are opposite crossings (page 15 say 0vs1 and page 5 says 1vs2 I don´t bet!
But that is for herb and gizmotron: this enables to play (following Kolmogorof) thee difference between these two crossings.
But that is another thing.
br
winkel
@Prof. Winkel
I believe that not all the crossing on the tracker are the same. Yes some are the same, yet some are different.
Spin 31 (number 10), Spin 35 (number 31) and Spin 36 (number 13)are different.
Spin 31: win bet is number 10---> bet number 10 and win
Spin 35: win bet is number 31---> bet number 31 and win
Spin 36: win bet is number 13---> bet number 13 and win
I can bet on all those number and win them ALL!
3 bets on 3 different spin, 3 wins~!!
If there are of the SAME CROSSING, how is this possible?
Using one tracker, we can only FIND one possible crossing.
By using more than on tracker, we can find MORE than one possible crossing and bet on it.
Remember this is with the same 50 spin result.
For example, you are at the online casino for an hour tracking and waiting to bet.
With one tracker, you will SEE and bet on one possible crossing.
But with more than on tracker, you can FIND more than one possible crossing and bet on them~~!!!
With only one tracker, you will "missed out" other betting opportunity~
Prof. Winkel, please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks Prof.
Thanks all for reading.
Nobody ^.^
Quote[highlight]What I am saying is by using more than one tracker, we can track more possible crossing and bet on it![/highlight]
What I do really not understand:
Here is a technique you can play very simple without any fear to loose your BR and the knowledge that you will recover every loss.
Why the need to wring it like a cloth?
Why putting a risky progression on it?
Why not stop after a small win and jump?
Why being a millinaire in one day?
Why rape it?
just look in the test Area: within 13 days a Plus of 393 units otu of a branroll of 200.
That is almost a thre times the Bankroll in two weeks
Give a businessman this chance of doubling his money he will pay you a rent for lifetime of yours and your children and Grandchildren.
But he would Do this buisness in secret not risking to destroy it. He probably would watch very long and very careful if there could be any better on it. Until then he wouldn´t go away from street he is sent on.
br
winkel
btw:
One thing he could find on watching carefully:
Betting on a "crossing to appear"
But again, this needs a lot of Experience, otherwise you loose everything
[highlight]@all start with the simple rules written in my first three posts.
Use only "0" "1" "2" and as a training ">1"
don´t play more than 50 spins
If in doubt, don´t bet
That´s it for a start[/highlight]
@all start with the simple rules written in my first three posts.
Use only "0" "1" "2" and as a training ">1"
don´t play more than 50 spins
If in doubt, don´t bet
That´s it for a start
Good advice that
Regards Rodney
i wouldn´t wait so long, i would have jumped back earlier
br
winkel
I have a constant look at all possible combinations
If the higher (1,2,3 and there sums) are doing well I don´t mind the 0s
br
winkel
in the first 13 spins "appear" 10-11 numbers
in the next 12 spins "appear" 8 numbers that have hit not yet
in the next 12 spins appear 6 numbers
so we have our 24 numbers average in a 37spins-sector!!
No it is one thing to look at and give you reason to decide.
for your example:
4 in a row and a crossing to play on it = risk
br
winkel
Quote from: t0p_man on September 19, 2008, 11:13:52 AM
Quote from: winkel on September 19, 2008, 09:58:41 AM
in the first 13 spins "appear" 10-11 numbers
in the next 12 spins "appear" 8 numbers that have hit not yet
in the next 12 spins appear 6 numbers
so we have our 24 numbers average in a 37spins-sector!!
Another point we can assume from here is that :
at spin 38-50, risky to play at "0", because only 3-4 hits are expected. Right?
that´s it
Quote from: winkel on August 22, 2008, 07:06:36 PM
I give you diagram of how the progression of every kind 0; 1; etc. are moving
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1219442523.gif&hash=9cd915298fa38a88a7cab2efc79a9b07aa5e9608)
as you can see only the "0" are going down to 0
all others are rising and then going down to 0 (1;2;3 etc.)
all sums are going up to 37 (>1; >2;>3 etc.)
as they behave that way all the lines have to cross at minimum once with any other line.
On these crossings we bet.
br
winkel
Professor........
Could you explain the above statement in red? I don't see how one hit, two hits or three hits can go up and then back down to zero.
Studying hard!!
Sam
Because when every number has hit at least twice, there will be 0 numbers that have appeared only once.
As the same with '2' column, after 400 or so spins every number may have appeared at least 3 times: so '2' will be at 0.
I know this isn't proving it's the holy grail or anything, but I have been using the GUT for a week or so and I have cashed out almost $500, starting with $150.
@sam
it is as shorty said.
@shorty
QuoteI know this isn't proving it's the holy grail or anything,
no it is not proving that it is the HG, but it is proofing the betselection. Every line has to cross any other line at least once.
and it is to cross, if the difference of the both amounts is +1 or 0 in favour to the "falling" line
br
winkel
Gentlemen....
Thanks. Of course! I see now!
Sam
Quote from: Shorty on September 20, 2008, 04:45:28 AMbut I have been using the GUT for a week or so and I have cashed out almost $500, starting with $150.
You did this playing with real money? At what online casino? Using RNG?
Yes with real money, on 888's RNG.
I did tweak it a bit though to suit my smaller BR.
Hi top_man,
no that is not recommended.
br
winkel
Quote from: Shorty on September 21, 2008, 12:22:50 AM
Yes with real money, on 888's RNG.
I did tweak it a bit though to suit my smaller BR.
Do they accept U.S. players? What was your tweak?
winkel
Sorry to be so dense, but does this:
-------->=2 mean "equal to or greater than 2"? All occurrences happening at least two times and as many as infinity?
Anyone?
Sam
>=2 -> 2,3,4,5,6,7,..........
>2 -> 3,4,5,6,7,.........
More questions about crossings.
Am I correct in assuming the larger number of the crossing, 10 vs 9 for example, must always be a 0, 1, or 2? We can never have a >1 vs >2 can we?
We can have this, thought, right?: 1 vs (2+>2) Assuming we have 12 "one" hits, 8 "two" hits and 3 ">2" hits, we would have 12 vs 11.
I am studying the chart with the "sums" and this confuses me.
Sam
look at the diagram
the sums can only grow!! They are turning to 37 straight!
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on September 14, 2008, 01:47:02 PM
I´m sorry
my table shows "0" "1" ">1" "2" ">2" that might be confusing.
simple bet rule: The chance to bet vst the next chance or vs the sum of all higher chances
0 vs 1 or >0
1 vs 2 or vs >1
2 vs 3 or vs >2
also
0 vs 2 or >1
1 vs 3 or >2
and again: be carefull: sums are not falling!!!!!!! You can only bet the lower Chance to fall under the sum
br
winkel
winkel
Please note the red, 1 vs 3. I have all the other crossings understood, but this one I cannot understand. Suppose:
[table=,]
1,3
10,9
[/table]
If I came to that situation and bet on the numbers which had hit only once and won, then that win would go to numbers that had hit 2 or >2 and not to three. My table would look like:
[table=,]
1,3
9,9
[/table]
So how do we bet on 1 vs 3? And for that matter, 0 vs 2?
Sam
It is simple:
"0" have to fall
"3" have to rise against the "0"
so bet "0"
if it happens that a "2" appears the new situation is 9 - 10 crossing disappeared
1 3
9 9
in this situation you had won.
always bet which is falling
br
winkel
winkel and anyone.......
Sorry, I can see no potential crossing between 1 and 3.
Let's examine 1 vs 2
19 18.......there I see a potential crossing because if a "1" number hits it will become a "2" and the table would be:
18 19.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
But with 1 vs 3.......
10 9........you bet on all "1s" and win. Your "3" is still a 9 and the lines are even, but not crossed. It looks like this:
9 9......still no crossing so you bet again on all "1s".....
8 9.....and we have a crossing but not because the "3s" increased, but because the "1s" decreased.
In most cases, both lines are moving: one up and one down. In this case the "3" line is static and the "1" is moving toward zero.
From this, it seems to me we are betting on a potential crossing when none exists: 10 9 and then again when one does exist: 9 9. In this case should we not wait until the numbers are even and a win would cause a somewhat backward crossing?
Can anyone but me see this? Am I seeing wrong??
I am not good with charts and I can't program this, but I can draw it on 9th grade graph paper.
Sam
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1222027781.png&hash=6ab64810d14844d6dfd6e34328f8df4829bd7e9d)
this is a similiar graph
it is todays touchbet-permanence
as you can see "1" (R) are falling (blue line)
While on that way it crosses the line ">2" (turqois line)
The line "<2" is a sum so it can only go upwards
btw: 19 "0" we don´t bet
it is okay if you only bet the first crossings like I do in Test-Area don´t overact and play 100 spins to watch F7 crossing with F>7
br
winkel
Professor.....
I will take that advice and stay with the 1 2 and 3 crossings. I am finding many wins in the low numbers, around 12, when the 0 vs 1 and the 1 vs 2 are happening.
Thanks.......
Sam
I give you your propers, Winkel. GUT seems to work at both Live and Real Money RNG's. It worked at Player's Palace (Riverbelle Live Wheel) and Golden Tiger (RNG). Hit a bump at Phonician (most biased RNG I know of), but I feel confident about this method. A holy grail can make profits long term and this has potential.
Quote from: madupz4 on September 21, 2008, 09:41:50 AM
Quote from: Shorty on September 21, 2008, 12:22:50 AM
Yes with real money, on 888's RNG.
I did tweak it a bit though to suit my smaller BR.
Do they accept U.S. players? What was your tweak?
I'm unsure of whether they accept US players. I basically practiced this for a while and just played a little different from the way Winkel plays it, to suit my playing style. For example I don't often play on the '0' column, especially later in the game.
I will testify to this:
Golden Casino (Not Golden Palace! It's a spin-off.) does accept US players and they do pay.
You must be prepared to show all forms of ID they want; DL, CC front and back, maybe water bill or rental agreement. Anything they want and they will pay. This is the only RNG I ever withdrew money from that I won exclusively on an RNG.
Sam
I was satisfied with this system for a while but I'm not so sure anymore. I think it's because the difficulty to know when to bet. Obviously it makes difference. I have both win and lost with it, but when you get several losses in row it makes you wonder. Still I think I have won more than lost. But for now I hold on with it.
Hallo Winkel !
Your theory is very interesting. ;)
Thanks for having shared !
Why say that does not work with the Streets ?
The principle should be the same.
By
alexOO
Quote from: alex00 on September 24, 2008, 06:44:28 AM
Hallo Winkel !
Your theory is very interesting. ;)
Thanks for having shared !
Why say that does not work with the Streets ?
The principle should be the same.
By
alexOO
That's what I said? If you can apply it to 37 individual numbers then why wouldn't it work as effectively on 12 streets? It would seem like it's the same thing but on a smaller scale. Yes some individual numbers within those streets will be sleepers and won't apply but if there are 12 streets and 6 have come in, then the statistic would have to change that 7 would come in at some point.
First of All: The Zero is not in Play
Second: Streets are cheating:
If there is a number which hit 3 times which makes the street a Favourite, then you play 2 numbers as >2 which are "0"
Remember: Roulette is a game on Numbers but nothing else.
all other chances are there to make you believe you can win with a small unit a lot of money.
Thats the only and biggest point I accept on the Theory of "Gamblers Fallacy"
so all my systems are based on Full Numbers/Plein exclusively
br
winkel
Winkel ok, you are right. :)
The roulette extracting just a number at a time and must be based on this game.
Again congratulations for your idea of the game.
Alex00
winkel
I am going to show you two screen shots and ask a couple of questions. I will tell you up front the winner was >3 on both of them, so I'm only seeking advice without worrying about the winner.
Number 1..
[attachimg=#2]
In the above case you have ties. Would you bet on 0 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 or what?
Number 2....Eight spins later......
[attachimg=#1]
Same question! I am hung up on when to bet when tied like this.
Sam
#1: I had played "0"
#2: I had played "0"
but at number two I had had this thought:
There are 4 "0"s to hit between spin 38 and 50. There have already 4 appeared.
The way almost is: 14 14 9 turns into 9 14 14
Here: 15 11 11 has fully turned to 11 11 15
I had stopped and jumped.
br
winkel
#1: I wouldn't have played.
#2: I would have played the '3' column.
But that's just my way, Winkel is the creator here.
Listen, Shorty, an input is appreciated.
I test at Riverbelle, a Microgaming wheel, and I do not find the crossings like you said before 30 spins. Sometimes they are around 65. Perhaps I should jump but when 2 v 3 and 2 v (3+>3) have a 12 or 11 as the high number, I experience wins.
Enough that Lanky's divisor set for 2-1 bets would do nicely.
Sam
Tonight I ran about 85 numbers through the program. I had many crossings and most of them won. Even the 19 18 and a 16 15. Mostly what excites me is the 12 number bets: 1 v 2 or 0 v 1
Sam
is this system a holy grail.... ???
Quote from: VICLIMKS on September 27, 2008, 07:42:29 AM
is this system a holy grail.... ???
What answer do you expect?
NO!
Quote from: winkel on September 27, 2008, 08:10:52 AM
Quote from: VICLIMKS on September 27, 2008, 07:42:29 AM
is this system a holy grail.... ???
What answer do you expect?
NO!
this means u have losing sessions right winkel
No!
What do you think? You come in ask "Is it a holy grail?" And I gave you the answer: NO!
Why? Because if you don´t read the first posts of this topic and if you don´t see by yourself that this strategy has a potential, then it is senseless to tell you that the name of this topic is right.
If you don´t believe in its basis and are not open minded to it, you don´t deserve a Holy Grail!
br
winkel
ps: you can read in the testing-area as well, but only if you are really interested and not looking for golden gift.
The system if played correctly wins more than it loses. It does not mean that you win all matches, but win more of those lost.
Greetings.
Alex00
..and for me that is the "Holy Grail"!
On the last day of the month---month after month after month----I see a steady increase in my bankroll/profits/bank account.
Oh, there is one problem.......
It runs into work! Nasty little word, that!
Sam
Ive been through the whole thread and I still cant make sense from all this.
First off, what version of the tracker do I use? The one where the columns are labeled "0, 1, 2, 3, >3" or the one where the columns are labeled "0, >0, 1, >1, 2, >2, 3, >3"? Which version is better? Why?
Hi advantage
for a start just use "0" "1" ">1" and "2"
">0" doesn´t make sense becuase there is only one crossing which is 19-18 and that we don´t play
br
winkel
Okay and what combination's do we use to work out the difference?
I mean which ones of these do we use...
0 vs 1?
0 vs >1?
1 vs 2?
look at these examples:
[table=,]
0, 1, >1, 2, bet
13 ,13, 11, 8, "0"
11, 13, 12, 8, "1"
11, 15, 11, 8, "0"
11, 15, 13, 11, "0"
11, 14, 10, 14, "1"
[/table]
Thanks for the fast replies - the sooner I clear this up; the sooner Ill start testing ;)
From what I see, we can bet the...
0 vs 1
0 vs >1
0 vs 2
1 vs >1
1 vs 2
I guess we could also bet 1 vs >2 and 2 vs >2 and 2 vs 3 and 2 vs >3? Or is that all wrong?
Anyway Ill give your method a test on Dublin Bet and see what happens (or see if I even know what to do :) )
Again:
As a beginner I would simply play as I told.
And start not with real money, test it first with any numbers you have.
When you are used to it, you can play as you like.
br
winkel
Okay thanks for the advice.
Ill start some tests!
Hey winkel
I was going to give up on your system. I asked for a sign. This came in the mail. What do you think?
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg295.imageshack.us%2Fimg295%2F4189%2Fgutab7.jpg&hash=d44e05fda5396be9ed91899a8643726f62a68711) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
Sam
Heh more like a sign and a half! :o
Your going to have to test it now 2Cat :P
...if I have the guts to test it.........
Am I right in thinking that this method of playing
requires one to bet on a lot of numbers - 12 or more?
If I'm wrong please tell me.
If I'm right please explain the betting method.
Quote from: bjb007 on September 29, 2008, 01:02:48 AM
If I'm right please explain the betting method.
I really tried very very hard to be patient.
I didn´t succeed. sorry.
What the hell have I done in several hundreds posts?
I´m fed up! that´s it. I´m off!
bye mates
winkel
Thanks!! I have copied all your posts.
Even if you go, will will continue to work on the G.U.T!
Hope I'm your friend...
TwoCatSam
winkel!
Thanks a lot to share your idea! I think we can learn a new way of thinking with your help.
G.U.T. ist sehr GUT! :)
ernesto
Whats the point in making a system so complicated most players would not even understand. I thought roulette was supposed to be a fun game , this method takes the fun out of it for sure.
At least this idiot has to make a comment.
What is so complicated with this?
Watching and counting and betting the cross?
Learn to read and understand before you punish your keyboard with your dirty fingerprints.
If you want to win at roulette on the long run
there is no easy way
There is not mechanichal system like play red ater two black in a row
You must adapt your game to the outcomming numbers
You must adapt yourself
There is not strict rules
You must play roulette as if you were a good chess player
i really don t understand why some people on this forum and in other forum
always try to discredit people who have dedicated there life to do research on this game
the game of roulette is a very seriuos thing
many people loose all there money and life at this game *
in Monte carlo the next century there were 5 suicide per week due to roulette game
Roulette is not a fun game
if you want to play for fun play it with your computer in the fun mode
but if you go at the table with real money in your pocket
Please listen, studie, test what good researcher have done before you
because those person have dedicate their life to roulette
and they deserve respect.
You cannot come here as a new commers
and post negative comments as you dont even understand the essence of this terible game
NTM >:(
I get no pleasure from having to study hard to win. Ok winkel you put a lot of thought into this , I ain't knocking your "clever method" , it looks like it may be a good system , ALL I said is that it is no fun calculating pretty hard to understand methods before betting. So my punishment for saying this is that I am an idiot ? . Thats nasty - no other word for it. Maybe your system rocks but like I say I aman apparent "empty head" (as cool paddy called me) should not speak until spoken to by the greats on here.
This place is looking more and more like a gentlemens club where only the elite few can say anything. I will say this - goodbye................ :-[ The place where >:D live.
QuoteWinkel wrote: "really tried very very hard to be patient.
I didn´t succeed. sorry.
What the hell have I done in several hundreds posts?
I´m fed up! that´s it. I´m off!
bye mates."
Winkel, I understand your frustration. I'm sorry that your gambling system didn't work. Before you try to build another one, you should consult the wizard of odds website. The website will help you grasp the mathematics a little bit better. Also, feel free to ask myself or any of the other math guys next time for help.
In the short term, you quest was not in vain. You can learn from your mistakes.
Best of Luck. :)
-Herb
I don't understand why people can't understand this? I taught my girlfriend how to do it and she has never set foot in a casino or seen a roulette table in real life.
If you don't understand, read the topic? It's simple.
Shorty
Looking forward to more of your tests. I'll be calling on your for help!
Sam
I have a day off today, so I will get quite a few done me thinks. :)
Shorty...
Looks like you're "the man" so perhaps you could
give me (us) the short (say less than 100 words)
description of this system.
As far as I can figure it out it's like this...
If you have X numbers with Y hits and Z numbers
with Y-1 or Y+1 hits then you bet on.....A numbers
with B units until C... because this is more likely than
that.
If you can explain it I can programme it...and I'd
rather be programming it than trying to figure it out.
Winkel,
Sorry to see you go.
Thank you for the statistics. Thank you for the system. Thank you for your patience.
You have helped me substantially and for that i say thank you.
Quote from: winkel on September 29, 2008, 02:38:17 PM
Quote from: bjb007 on September 29, 2008, 01:02:48 AM
If I'm right please explain the betting method.
I really tried very very hard to be patient.
I didn´t succeed. sorry.
What the hell have I done in several hundreds posts?
I´m fed up! that´s it. I´m off!
bye mates
You are right, you did explained well enough for everyone to understand it and you were very patient.. Don't leave, make replys for sensible posts and don't mind about those people who are just too lazy to read a few first posts which are needed to understand that system..
Winkel ... not all people think that sooner or later someone will get a benefit to roulette.
Do not you worry about the negative comments, is part of the lives of the forum. ;)
Regards
Alex00
Bjb, you are correct.
You could be playing 1 number, or you could be playing 16. Personally i only play up to 10 numbers, and never play on the '0' column to cross. I believe that's where most of the losses coming from, especially if you are playing 16 numbers.
Winkel,
I never follow up this topic, but I'm sorry about your words.
I think you're one of the guru forum so, act like a guru,...stay.
Ice
Shorty
How can you flat-bet on 16 numbers?
Two losses in a row and you're out.
And as soon as you decide to bet on
only 10 numbers you've cut your chances
of winning to 60%.
I believe 60% of 50% is 30%.....
Unless it wins more than 50% (which it
might) I don't see the point. I'd have to be
a genius to figure it out from the info posted.
Seems just like the "Last 12" with the minor
difference that you can move the datum to
get a "last 12" e.g. if you have 16 numbers with
1 hit and 21 with 2 hits subtract one hit from each
(makes no difference since there's still one hit
between them) and presto! you have a "last 16".
Quote from: Kingspin on September 29, 2008, 10:13:24 PM
I get no pleasure from having to study hard to win. Ok winkel you put a lot of thought into this , I ain't knocking your "clever method" , it looks like it may be a good system , ALL I said is that it is no fun calculating pretty hard to understand methods before betting. So my punishment for saying this is that I am an idiot ? . Thats nasty - no other word for it. Maybe your system rocks but like I say I aman apparent "empty head" (as cool paddy called me) should not speak until spoken to by the greats on here.
This place is looking more and more like a gentlemens club where only the elite few can say anything. I will say this - goodbye................ :-[ The place where >:D live.
Is everyone taking grumpy pills or something why post negative things its not a gentlemans club it is forum for study and testing.
Roulette isn't easy to beat .The casinos rake in 100's of millions every year
We study and test these methods and discuss them to hopefully give us the edge that we can go into casino confident we can come out with a profit or at the least with our br intact
Roulette isnt fun like this but maybe the making of money surely is and so the gold at the end of the rainbow is surely worth the hours of chat and study
So how does one disagree then without
"posting negative things"?
What happened to "free speech"?
i do feel for winkel.
i think he felt that he had a lot more to offer. but he was not getting there because he was having to explain what was explained in page 1 again and again.
For example - is there an optimal time to play 1 crossing >1. I find around spin 47 to 50 hits well.
Is there an optimal time to play 0 crossing 1? I find before 30 and it is generally early. Around 30th spin is early for it to cross but it wins well. My suspicion is that is that is early due to zeros hitting - so let the trend be your friend. As long as in last 3 pops there have not been 3 zeroes hit, it seems to hit in the 2 goes.......
Around 40 spins isnt late as such for 0 s 1. Its probably less late than 30 is early - but success is not as high.
Now i wish winkel were here to discuss things like this........
I wish i had engaged in more conversation and asked him more when he was here.
All i can suggest is that if he comes on here and sees 20 posts b***hing he will not come back. If he comes on and sees questions that show that quite a few of us have taken time to understand what he has taken time to teach then he may think it worthwhile to teach some more.
Quote from: bjb007 on September 30, 2008, 02:47:24 PM
So how does one disagree then without
"posting negative things"?
What happened to "free speech"?
Nothing is wrong with free speech I think he more pissed at the fact he needed explain the method time and time again when people all they had to do was read the threads to get the jist of his method and take a little time to understand it.
Once done then pose questions in this forum He was always willing to answer them but not straight out dumb questions even tho i am good at them too ;D ;D I do hope he comes back I bet he as a few other gems to share as well
Rodney
Rodney
I got very frustrated at the beginning of that thread. Wildcard tried to help, but I couldn't get it. Then, after watching a while and reading other posts, it began to sink in. Even if I disagreed with him, he was nice.
I find myself "skimming" posts and not reading them thoroughly as I should. I have learned one thing: The time it takes to print an important post is well worth it to me. Having something in my hand just seems to be easier to understand. Plus, there's the ol' red pen....
Perhaps he did what he set out to do. All he ever wanted to do was give it away.
Sam
Mr. Chips,
I offered to help Winkel out in the future with his math. He had a misguided understanding of roulette probability.
Also, after 36 pages, I don't think there was but one or two people here, that had even a clue, as to what he was talking about. Winkel left because he realized the system was destined to fail. People began asking questions that he couldn't answer.
I'm sorry if that upsets you.
-Herb
Quote from: Herb on September 30, 2008, 08:12:04 PM
Mr. Chips,
I offered to help Winkel out in the future with his math. He had a misguided understanding of roulette probability.
Also, after 34 pages, I don't think there was but one or two people here, that had even a clue, as to what he was talking about. Winkel left because he realized the system was destined to fail. People began asking questions that he couldn't answer.
I'm sorry if that upsets you. :)
-Herb
this shall not be your triumph.
I answered always every question. But if someone comes in and asks at page 32: "How is it to play" I simply loose my contol.
and when this guy asks for a description in 100 words he is a fool. And in the next sentence he says "then I will code it" [smiley=1/puke.gif]
and Herb: you know nothing about stochastical moves. You are satisfied to know that the chance for 1 single number in the very next coup is 1/37. But that knowledge is equal to a Kindergarten-child which can repeat: 1+1 is 1.[smiley=1/blahblah.gif]
Some guys saw the possibility in this strategy and formed additional ways to bet. and as I sayed: I tested these ideas also. I was going to the next stage of playing with "gamblers intelligence". but as long as there are stupid repeats of nonsense like yours, who wants to argue with the chances of red and black that my single-numbers don´t work, not knowing what this is about made me quit.
As I said: I´m quite ill and my patience is sometimes not in good condition but in my last days I don´t have to stand this stupidity.
That´s it.
I didn´t quit, because I´m no more convinced of what I´ve found. I´m convinced of it since 5 years and I would be a damned foolish idiot if a question which is about the facts of the game would make me confused. It never did and it never will.
If you, Herb, would be able to argue on the way I select and bet, I would discuss with you. But it isn´t worth the time as long you don´t know the Theories of Kolmogorov Markoc and Doeblin.
so, I´m angry, very angry. And I don´t like to live my last days in this mood. so I take distance to the people which make me angry
God bless you all and always check your Thinking, it might be no good.
winkel
Here's why Winkel's system wouldn't work.
He was attempting to exploit what some people call the law of the third -(slang), or binomial distribution of roulette numbers. Basically it implies that after any group or of spins, some numbers will hit more frequently than others. He was attempting to demonstrate that he could track which numbers were destined to hit by using those stupid, and confusing charts. Yes, honestly, they were absurd.
Here's the problem: Yes it's true some numbers will hit more than others, but we don't know which numbers are more likely to hit than the other numbers. Regardless of what has just hit. Regardless of how many times it has hit. This is because the roulette wheel has no memory. It doesn't know for example, that the number 11 just hit twice, and that the number 12 has yet to hit at all.
You can build crossing pattern charts all you want, track all of the hits as they happen, and it won't make one bit of difference when it comes time to bet. Why? Because roulette is a game of independent trials. This is the big system killer. Like it or not.
How to use the distribution of numbers correctly: In a game of independent trials, you CAN judge the goodness of fit of a roulette wheel by recording enough numbers and by using what we call the Chi Square test. This sample examines the distribution and provides you with a value that will enable you to determine what the chances are of your data being within the statistical norm. Meaning, it can help you determine whether the roulette wheel is behaving in a random manner.
For more information a Wiki article is partially pasted below.
Winkel, for now, I shall refrain from calling you an idiot like you have called others.
-Herb :)
In probability theory and statistics, the chi-square distribution (also chi-squared or χ2 distribution) is one of the most widely used theoretical probability distributions in inferential statistics, e.g., in statistical significance tests. It is useful because, under reasonable assumptions, easily calculated quantities can be proven to have distributions that approximate to the chi-square distribution if the null hypothesis is true.
The best-known situations in which the chi-square distribution are used are the common chi-square tests for goodness of fit of an observed distribution to a theoretical one, and of the independence of two criteria of classification of qualitative data. Many other statistical tests also lead to a use of this distribution, like Friedman's analysis of variance by ranks. -Wikipedia..
Mr Chips
I am sure Victor will read your suggestion.
What good would it do for winkel to be able to delete Herb's post? winkel already read it. The damage is done.
Do we want a forum where a moderator OKs every post before the general population sees it? There are some like that. I don't want that job.
We need to learn to ignore those who annoy us. Those who wish are free to ignore me!!
Sam
Grow up guys. A little constructive crisicism will help your checking accounts.
God...
Nothing useful will come from being so crude...Herb
Yes, the facts are so crude. :)
Too bad we all can't learn to ignore those we don't like (Herb). ::)
Hi all, here's a typical session I just finished playing
at dublinbet in fun mode. Follow along with GUT tracker V3
for a nice tutorial.
I see wins like this fairly regularly. I truly believe winkel
shared something special and profound. Maybe this will help
others understand the method better.
Watch these crossings as you play:
0 vs. >0 (optional)
0 vs. 1
0 vs. >1
1 vs. >1
1 vs. 2
6
13
26
2
35
4
13
35
5
12
6
3
34
14
27
18
24
33
34
22
15
3
21 <--- 0 vs. >0, 19v18 about to cross, bet all no's in the 0: row (if you like)
7 <--- and now they cross, 19v18 becomes 18v19, and 7's a winner!
10
9 <--- 0 vs. 1, 16v16 about to cross, bet all no's in 0: row
20 <--- they cross, 16v16 becomes 15v17, another winner!
13
8
28
21
13
23
36
20
13
36
16
7 <--- at 0 vs. >1, 10v9 is about to cross, bet all no's in 0:
22 <--- 10v9 becomes 10v10, bet one more time for this trigger
1 <--- 10v10 crosses over to 9v10, another win
26
36
34
36
31
3
2
2
35
24
34
12 <--- at 1 vs. >1, 15v14 is about to cross, bet all no's in 1: row
20 <--- still 15v14, bet one last time on this same trigger
9 <--- and there's the crossing to 14v15, another win
1
24
4
22
25
25
13
36
1
14
6
16 <--- at 1 vs. 2, 10v9 about to cross, time to bet all no's in 1: row
10 <--- Winner, winner... chicken dinner!
Has herb ever posted a system here b4? that hasnt tanked?
:-X
hamsup
Droidman
Thanks for that!!
I am going to copy it, input the numbers and follow along.
Very nice work!
Sam
OK I've been visiting the board recently and want to make sense of this thread. :) So I have a few questions for you folks and
Winkel of course who has kindly revealed his system to us. Please bare with me, I know some of you have become experts by now.
By the way I don't think it is wrong to want to describe the rules of a system in 100 words. All the laws of music, geometry or physics can be summarised within a few sentences or a page so why shouldn't the rules of a roulette system? Let's see now ...
Starting at the beginning in his first post on this GUT: W writes:
=============================
"....36 not appeared - 1 appeared 35 - 2 34 - 3 etc.
then we might come to this point: 19 - 18
now we bet the 19 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 18 -19 during the spins we bet when the following
combinations appear: 19 - 18 18 - 17 17 - 17 17 - 16 16 - 16 16 - 15 15 - 15 15 -14 14 - 14 14 - 13 etc.
the difference between appeared and not appeared numbers has to be 0 or 1. The second bet situation:
we have numbers that appeared once and numbers that appeared more than once: every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet
the numbers that appeared once. The third situation to bet: We have numbers that appeared twice and numbers that appeared more
than twice. every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice.
if we have to bet 19 or 18, we just bet once if we have to bet less than 18, then we bet as often as there is a win or 0
possible: 17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice 12 to 10 - we bet three times 9 to 8 - we bet four times
do you get the idea?..."
=========================================
Question1= You'll notice how 36 +1=37, 35+2=37,34+3=37
So why suddenly does he write 18+17=35,17+17=34 etc ?
I thought we were always adding up to 37 spins why the switch now? these numbers don't add up to 37
If we only bet according to his rule: "...every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared once...."
We would only bet when 19 individual have NOT appeared and 18 have appeared when there is about to be a crossover. Only then do
we have "a difference of 1".
Also I don't see how we could have adifference in 0 since 37 is and odd number and we cant have a
difference of 18.5 vs 18.5 =0
===========================================
Question2: What does this mean?
"...every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice..."
Does this mean if 25 numbers have not appeared and 17 have appeared (25+17=37) and that one number has appeared twice so we now bet on that number alone?
-------------------------------------
"...We have numbers that appeared twice and numbers that appeared more than twice. Every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet
the numbers that appeared twice...."
What is a difference of 0. That all numbers have appeared once or twice?
------------------------------
Surely if a number re-appears say 4 times within 17 spins it will have appeared 3 times more than those
numbers that have only appeared once, twice more that those numbers that have appeared twice and once more than those that have
apppeared three times.
Isn't this rule a subset of the previous rule "...every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice..."
In that case why have this rule at all?
===================================
I'll have a lot more questions soon but these will do for now. ;) I'm eager to understand this but it can only be done slowly one step at a time. If you would like to point me to specific answers to my questions in this thread please tell me the times, dates and author and I'll look them up.
Thanks for reading
Purple.
=============================
Well - In my opinion, Herb should be banned from the site.
Winkel has been unwell, which he stated at the outset of the sharing of the system and after winkels post yesterday, Herb clearly demonstrated a complete lack of care for Winkel's health.
thoughts?
Without trying to take sides Tuck I think Herb has been insensitive, sceptical and has not come up with something constructuctive of his own, but I don't think these are good enough reasons for someone to be banned. Anyway that is up to the moderator
Hi tucktuckster,
Why ban Herb? - do you know anything about the man? I have copied below a reply of mine yesterday to another post.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Herb,
Same old charmer! I must say that the systems you have posted are flawless! They are pure mathematical perfection - a reflection of your intelligence, charm and and brilliant imagination! The cold logic, the clever strategies, are a stunning example of your ingenuity. The kindness and generousity of your very humble advice and contributions to other people's endeavours is a shining example of your very noble intentions.
The warm tribute you paid to Winkel is a typical example of the kindness, consideration and encouragement which you dispense so generously.
I have a favour to ask, could you please repost your first masterpiece? I can't find it anywhere.
Your Number One Fan
Coolpaddy
P.S. Have you any new systems in the pipeline?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tucktuckster, you can imagine what an empty place this forum would be without this wonderful, cuddly, creative genius?
Best regards
P.S. I think that Winkel's post (this one) is superb, I hope to see more of his work in the future
x Droidman
In position 51, with the release of 24 we can cross 1 vs. > 1 (14 vs. 14).
Why not games?
Thanks for your answer.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg504.imageshack.us%2Fimg504%2F6086%2Fimmagine2oq4.jpg&hash=c42ef267fe4b3c1389e91afd474ab0102833816b)
By
Alex00
Nice to see that wankel - sorry, winkel - is
exhibiting his usual modesty and respect for
the forum members.
From his last post....
and when this guy asks for a description in 100
words he is a fool. And in the next sentence he
says "then I will code it".
Have a look at the original for the emoticon
which accompanied this. Don't know if it's
available on this forum but it should be removed
if it is.
This vituperative comment is quite uncalled-for
and I ask wankel - sorry, winkel - to withdraw it.
He clearly suffers from some kind of mental problem
and the forum would be a much better place without
him and his crack-pot ramblings. It seems that
no-one is permitted to question his towering
intellect and unrivalled knowledge of anything to
do with anything.
I expect anyone who'd wasted five years on this
nonsense would be as pissed-off as wankel - sorry, winkel
when the world doesn't come grovelling to his feet in
admiration.
Please leave this forum permanently wankel - sorry, winkel.
Quote from: tucktuckster on October 01, 2008, 05:09:25 AM
Well - In my opinion, Herb should be banned from the site.
Winkel has been unwell, which he stated at the outset of the sharing of the system and after winkels post yesterday, Herb clearly demonstrated a complete lack of care for Winkel's health.
thoughts?
Tuck (and other Herb haters)....
Although I totally see where you guys are coming from (Herb can be... direct at times), he can also be very friendly and helpful. Stop by the chat room some time and ask him about bias wheels and such and he'll give you tons of useful info.
I'm not picking sides (math or otherwise) but believe there is room for both. Herb is simply making a point to show that there are flaws in the system being discussed. Whether they are relevant or not can only be decided by the reader. If you want to heed his warning, great, if not, great as well. I value all the info Herb has given me (and gotten a good laugh at times) but I still win consistantly with Victor's Lw methods (another system that Herb has commented on... I think?). I appriciate everyones comments (well, almost everyones) but calling him out over and over again is just fueling the fire.
Matt
Personally, I'd rather get in the boat with Purple and Alex00. They are asking questions. Good ones!
Alex......I see what you mean. Are you aware there is a Track3 which makes does the addition for you?
purple...
I am going to print your post and take a red pen to it. I asked winkel questions he would/could not answer. There is nothing wrong with that.
I'll get back to you.
Sam
Mr Chips and tucktuckster
If either of you are suggesting I ban this fellow........first I don't think I can. Only Victor can do that. If I banned him, where would I stop? There are several people on here who use language that simply isn't warranted.
I'm telling you the answer lies in ignoring people who irritate you. Some philosopher once said......You can judge a man by the things that annoy him.
"Ignore" buttons don't work. Herb's post is ignored and the reader sees all the comments from others about Herb's post and eventually has to go read the darn thing for himself.
Then there is the old, old knowldege.....Feed a cat and it comes back; ignore it and it will leave. The more time we spend on discussing these naysayers and insulters of good men, the more they will do it. If we all just let them blow to themselves and do not answer them, they will NOT get what they want--attention--and they will go away. Eventually! May take some time.
Let's try it!
Sam
Quote from: bjb007 on October 01, 2008, 09:57:49 AM
Nice to see that wankel - sorry, winkel - is
exhibiting his usual modesty and respect for
the forum members.
From his last post....
and when this guy asks for a description in 100
words he is a fool. And in the next sentence he
says "then I will code it".
Have a look at the original for the emoticon
which accompanied this. Don't know if it's
available on this forum but it should be removed
if it is.
This vituperative comment is quite uncalled-for
and I ask wankel - sorry, winkel - to withdraw it.
He clearly suffers from some kind of mental problem
and the forum would be a much better place without
him and his crack-pot ramblings. It seems that
no-one is permitted to question his towering
intellect and unrivalled knowledge of anything to
do with anything.
I expect anyone who'd wasted five years on this
nonsense would be as pissed-off as wankel - sorry, winkel
when the world doesn't come grovelling to his feet in
admiration.
Please leave this forum permanently wankel - sorry, winkel.
Hi all,
If I would have to choose between a "normal" person that after 37 post pages want the system in 100 words and the person that has a "mental problem", for sure I will choose the person with mental problem. I'm looking that mental problem is 37 pages with generous replies and patient explanation, also 12 or 13 pages with testing proofs in testing zone.
I would like more people in the world with "mental problems" like this and no "normal" people so lazy to read all the posts and so lazy to make own conlcusions for his understanding.
Also Herb is a class of peolple that exists in every gambling forum (in every lenguage, believe me) repeating that mathemathically is impossible to beat a negative gambling game, but never take a paper to probe the ideas or to go to the casino to contrast the theory and the reality. But he is not so dangerous, we have just to pass his repetitive posts. Despite it are some players that know how to win at roullette even when we can not demonstrate it mathemathycally.
Apologize my bad english, it isn't my mother lenguage, however i figth all days to understand all winkel posted and not to be so lazy to hope every thing eated in 100 words.
Bets regards to Winkel and thanks very much for his generousity.
Cheers.
So, let me get this straight.
Your suggesting that I be banned because I disagree with you?
Because I gave you some constructive criticisim?
This sort of reminds me of when they thought the earth has flat. I'm telling you that it's round.
I viewed Winkel's material, and told you what was wrong. He called me a few names, so what.
I then posted why the method will fail in an intelligent, lucid, well thought out manner. I also told you how to use the information correctly.
Relax. ;)
-Herb
[smiley=lolk.gif]
Eeeeess no flat, Mr Faulty?????
No Manuel you idiot! It is not flat(kick)
Lighten up people...
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 01, 2008, 10:19:19 AM
Personally, I'd rather get in the boat with Purple and Alex00. They are asking questions. Good ones!
Alex......I see what you mean. Are you aware there is a Track3 which makes does the addition for you?
Ok, I made a mistake ... thanks
Alex00
Sorry, Mr Chips, it was someone else who called for Herb's banning.
"What should be banned is making derogatory remarks about a person or their system in this section, the latest offender being bjb."
How do we censure a person? As moderators/administrators we are strictly forbidden to edit out a bad word. Even correct a spelling. Even banned from adding a period or a question mark. We simply delete or leave alone; we do not edit.
I have used bj as an example to Victor in the administrators lounge. I agree with you, something needs to be done. But what?
Even this discussion is counterproductive to the idea of winning at roulette.
I suppose every person who posts a theory/system on this forum should preface it with the caveat: I know this won't work, but......
In one of my posts Herb said to me, It won't work. I did not reply. In one thread Spike is lamenting that no one will argue with him.
The answer, as far as I'm concerned, is to grow a thick skin, learn to ignore and just continue doing what you are doing.
Furthermore, consider bricks as compliments. With rare exceptions, the people hurling them cannot make a single dollar at roulette--never have and never will--and THEY ARE SCARED TO DEATH YOU WILL!! What they would love most is to convince you to give up!
Sam
Yes,
That's correct. :)
Quote from: Herb on October 01, 2008, 12:10:43 PM
Yes,
That's correct. :)
where is my glasses where oh where oh where can they be
QuoteHere's why Winkel's system wouldn't work.
He was attempting to exploit what some people call the law of the third -(slang), or binomial distribution of roulette numbers. Basically it implies that after any group or of spins, some numbers will hit more frequently than others. He was attempting to demonstrate that he could track which numbers were destined to hit by using those stupid, and confusing charts. Yes, honestly, they were absurd.
Here's the problem: Yes it's true some numbers will hit more than others, but we don't know which numbers are more likely to hit than the other numbers. Regardless of what has just hit. Regardless of how many times it has hit. This is because the roulette wheel has no memory. It doesn't know for example, that the number 11 just hit twice, and that the number 12 has yet to hit at all.
You can build crossing pattern charts all you want, track all of the hits as they happen, and it won't make one bit of difference when it comes time to bet. Why? Because roulette is a game of independent trials. This is the big system killer. Like it or not
.
QuoteHow to use the distribution of numbers correctly: In a game of independent trials, you CAN judge the goodness of fit of a roulette wheel by recording enough numbers and by using what we call the Chi Square test. This sample examines the distribution and provides you with a value that will enable you to determine what the chances are of your data being within the statistical norm. Meaning, it can help you determine whether the roulette wheel is behaving in a random manner
Here's the results from testing: It loses as expected at the house edge. -2.7%.
Mr Chips
Currently there seven such areas on this forum. Swarm was the last to get one. Victor can and will do this for almost anyone who asks.
I have no problem with someone else being a censor for their own personal forum! I cannot set these things up and I don't know if Lanky knows how either. The will of the people will determine if there are visitors to that forum.
Are you wanting to see and approve the posts before they go up? Are you wanting to strike down the posts after they go up? Man, if you do the first, people will have to ask what they are not being allowed to see! If you do the later, the bell is rung and you can't un-ring it! If you have the ability to ban certain members, like Herb, people will wonder what he has to say. And they will wonder why you don't want him saying it!
Mr Chips, please ask Victor for your own section. I may be totally wrong.
I will say this from personal experience: Back before I was an administrator, I asked a moderator a question. Not only did he not answer it, he or someone else took it down. I found that very frustrating! It was a polite question which merely pointed out that his thinking was flawed--as I saw it. Obviously, he did not want to even debate the issue.
Also, obviously, I never asked another question and I doubt if I ever spoke to him again.
Sam
Mr. Chips,
Having your own section would be a good idea,
This way you wouldn't have to deal with any facts, constructive criticism, or dissenting views.
-Herb
I have tried GUT to some degree:
I used my Wiersbaden file (see the Appendix of "Roulette Probability Made Easier" in the Reference area) so anyone can do the same to check my findings. I started from the first spin and used the numbers as one continous stream.
I waited until I had 19 un-hit numbers and then checked how long I had to wait for the first hit of those 19 numbers.
[Edit: Math says that betting 19 numbers on a 0-wheel is always 51.351% - no matter what you wait for.]
My file was enough for 25,078 such sequences. 12,798 of them hit at the first bet. Or 51.033%
Math says that 12,640 to 13,115 should hit if the result is random. Or 51.351%
I also checked if there were no new numbers until the 18th hit...
5 old numbers and then the 18th new hit:
5848 hits in 11479 tries = 50.945%
Math: 5733 - 6055 hits or 51.351%
4 old numbers and then the 18th new hit:
3026 hits in 5868 tries = 51.567%
Math: 2898 - 3128 hits or 51.351%
3 old numbers and then the 18th new hit:
1639 hits in 3187 tries = 51.427%
Math: 1551 - 1721 hits or 51.351%
2 old numbers and then the 18th new hit:
824 hits in 1692 tries = 48.699%
Math: 807 - 930 hits or 51.351%
1 old number and then the 18th new hit:
497 hits in 978 tries = 50.817%
Math: 455 - 549 hits or 51.351%
All SIX last numbers were new numbers:
964 hits in 1874 tries = 51.440%
Math: 897 - 1027 hits or 51.351%
Regards,
KFS
KFS
So, are you saying it follows the expected norm almost to the letter?
Sam
Sam, and All,
I'm afraid that at least the first opportunity for the first crossing (19:18) is in my sample.
Too bad. :'( :'( :'(
I haven't checked more.
(Edit: There's a lot of data for the 19-numbers bet in the file but I only copied the first-hit figures)
/KFS
See post 561
I understood it, I handily explained why it wouldn't work, and I posted the final result.
I'm sorry if you didn't like the outcome.
Please point to the post where you feel that you have been abused by me.
-Herb
Mr Chips,
My results in post 564 indicate the same kind of losses.
Too bad, really.
KFS
I posted the result as well, -2.7%
Now, let's talk about those feeling of abuse that you're having.
Why are you feeling abused? Please point me to a post, so that I may understand how I have abused you.
-Herb
QuoteMr Chips-I was suggesting the facility of a temporary section for those who qualify and want it, to explain their systems without having to be subjected to personal abuse or stupid comments about their system which is not constructive comments.
I haven't had to result to personal attacks or abusive comments Mr. Chips. I just post the facts.
to Kon-Fu-Sed
before this is totally ruined please take notice of this:
Quote from: winkel on August 20, 2008, 06:38:39 PM
@all
[highlight]as I mentioned before it the BASIC!!!!!!!!
[/highlight]
@TCS
you got the way of counting the numbers.
your question for the second position:
13 12 12
wins and changes to
12 13 12
betting the 13 would be right following the original system.
But I have to make sure you all understand the way the system selects the numbers. After you got that I can explain further hints to play or to play not.
I think it would be best you take some spins of your past games or out of thread of original dublin-spins or take OC-Spins or any other origin.
[highlight]First hint: Don´t play the 19 or 18 numbers. Play only less than 18 numbers.[/highlight]
br
winkel
And as another advice I gave: Watch what´s going on
Therefore your test had had to be just turned around:
It is not interesting this way
spin x there is 19 what is in spin x+1
[highlight]This is interesting:[/highlight]
spin x there is 19 what happened in spin x-1 (x-2;x-3;x-4 etc.)
and then:
what happens in spin x+1
@purple
please use the GUT-Tracker, put numbers in and watch whats going on. It will answer all your questions.
@herb
you are right from the point of primary school. Try to qualify for next level.
br
winkel
winkel!! :D
Welcome back!
Sam
The Winkel's system for selecting is very intelligent.
We must however come in different variations that can produce.
Test summary does not make sense!
The crossings are there and there will always be. Who does not want to see them think otherwise ... the beautiful women, for example ... or cultivate the garden ...
The wheel produces phenomena in repetitive cycles and these need to be closed exploited.
Regards
Alex00
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 01, 2008, 10:19:19 AM
.... I asked winkel questions he would/could not answer. There is nothing wrong with that.
......
Sam
@ TCS
when did this happen? I´m sorry if I didn´t , please ask again.
br
winkel
btw.
I´m mot really back. I just don´t want this ruined completly. Perhaps someone can split the personal discussions to a new topic.
Winkel,
When people asked you questions you resorted to calling them idiots. That's what is meant when people say the questions went unanswered.
winkel
You never called me any names, so that's not it. I am probably just not grasping it! I am hung up over 0 vs >1. I mean no disrespect, but I don't see that as a crossing. If 0 wins, a win goes in the 1 column. If >1 wins, the two points on the graph move farther apart.
I can't use graphs, but I did it on paper and I can't see 0 vs >1 or 1 vs >2 being a crossing. I've also see it several times on the Track3 software.
Sam
Hi TCS,
you have to put some things together:
the situations 1 2 3 4 are going up and then going down
the situations >1 >2 >3 are sums and they are all going up until 37
now this situation
[table=,]
0, =1, >1, =2, >2
13 , 10 , 13 , 8 , 2
[/table]
this is a bad wave
=1 has to fill up: this happens by spining a "0"
if a "1" appears the trigger is dead
if a ">1" or "2" or ">2" appears the trigger doesn´t change
if in the spins before the "0" have hit more than three times: don´t bet this trigger
if in the spins before the "0" have slept: bet (this only can happen if "1"s and the others show up several times
hope you can see now
br
winkel
QuoteI have no problem with someone else being a censor for their own personal forum! I cannot set these things up and I don't know if Lanky knows how either.
Sorry Guys I can't do this either.
Victor is the only one that can.
Lanky.
winkel
Yes, I see.
Like winkel, I am growing weary of this constant bickering. This forum is not fun for me today.
Tomorrow will be a better day.
Sam
Having trouble understanding G.U.T.?
[attachimg=#]
Get Magic GUT now in Members Download area
Here's an idea that you can add to the program.
You see where you have the Xs stacked on top of one another? Change those to numbers stacked upon one another.
So instead of looking like this: X It would look like this 3
X X 2 2
X X X X X 1 1 1 1 1
Rather than counting how high the Xs are, you just look at the highest number. This will enable you to immediately recognize how many times each number has hit. This is also a good way to record numbers when you are tracking by hand.
Thanks for going to the trouble of programming it and sharing it.
Good Luck and Happy testing.
-Herb
Great idea, Herb.
bj, could you do that for us please?
Sm
Quote from: bjb007 on October 01, 2008, 11:45:25 PM
Having trouble understanding G.U.T.?
[attachimg=#]
Get Magic GUT now in Members Download area
sorry bjb,
even with the idea of herb there is one thing missing:
The trigger to bet and its developing.
Try the GUT-tracker which presents all neccessary informations perfectly.
You are just counting how often a number has hit. Herb would call it: a useless information
br
winkel
Dear winkel,
I used the crossing of 19:18 because of two reasons:
The simplicity to code it and because it was used in a "typical session" posted by droidman only a few pages back (post #536).
So that was not a "typical session", then...
Well then, why not describe a rather frequent situation that you know of, because of your extensive testing, that will hit better than math says? As it has to in order to not lose 2.7%.
For example, you could describe the situation like this:
Use the columns "=1" and ">1".
Wait until the counts are "13" and "12" respectively OR "12" and "11" respectively.
The column "=1" must not have been added to at the previous spin.
Wait another spin without those two counts changing.
If any of them change, the trigger is gone.
If they are un-changed you bet the 12 or 13 numbers valid for column "=1".
This was only an example of how you can describe the situation - but of course I have checked this one... ;)
I am sure you can do this and I am willing to check my file for your exact situation and we will once and for all prove that your theory is sound. That would make those who doubt you quiet and all of us will know.
(Better knowing than believing, right?)
Best regards,
KFS
hi all,
has anyone recorded how many times a bet will lose in a row?
so lets say you get a trigger, bet and you lose
whats the maximum losses in a row anyone has found regardless of being on the trigger or not?
i know its not the way to play the system, im just curious myself really,
also could someone tell me if you get a cross under 9:8 do you bet or leave it?
eg- 5:4, do you bother to bet or leave it?
thanks,
ryan
TC and Herb
Requested mod for numbers in the hit
columns is in vr0.2 in the
Members Download area.
Re: winkels statement that the prog
doesn't include info about betting
triggers. From the spin files winkel
posted I can see no evidence that
betting is other than on unhit numbers.
Perhaps others will check some spin files
and post their conclusions.
I don't propose to develop this prog
further as my tests confirm my opinion
already expressed.
However if anyone can
produce evidence that it is worth
developing further I'll re-consider.
Quote from: Kon-Fu-Sed on October 02, 2008, 07:24:41 AM
Well then, why not describe a rather frequent situation that you know of, because of your extensive testing, that will hit better than math says? As it has to in order to not lose 2.7%.
.....
This was only an example of how you can describe the situation - but of course I have checked this one... ;)
I am sure you can do this and I am willing to check my file for your exact situation and we will once and for all prove that your theory is sound. That would make those who doubt you quiet and all of us will know.
(Better knowing than believing, right?)
Best regards,
KFS
Hi KFS,
all crossing appear quite as often as all others.
If you just take one crossing and test it without regarding to my descriptions and "gamgler´s Intelligence" it will have expression.
The only way would be to make a list of "one" crossing with the notation of what happened before and what happened in the next spins.
(see my previous answer to you)
referring to the Rule of betting how many time referring to the amount of numbers.
br
winkel
Quote from: ryan08 on October 02, 2008, 11:08:54 AM
hi all,
has anyone recorded how many times a bet will lose in a row?
so lets say you get a trigger, bet and you lose
whats the maximum losses in a row anyone has found regardless of being on the trigger or not?
i know its not the way to play the system, im just curious myself really,
also could someone tell me if you get a cross under 9:8 do you bet or leave it?
eg- 5:4, do you bother to bet or leave it?
thanks,
ryan
How many times there is a loss in a row, won´t give you any information, because you are not betting always the same amount of numbers.
[highlight]i know its not the way to play the system,[/highlight]
I just don´t understand why people read a strategy and wanna play or bet or test something completely different? What´s the point in it?
[highlight]also could someone tell me if you get a cross under 9:8 do you bet or leave it?
eg- 5:4, do you bother to bet or leave it?
[/highlight]
Why do I write several times: play just the first triggers at beginner´s level. If you are used to it and can "see" what´s going on, you will be able to bet these crossings knowing when they have a chance to hit.
br
winkel
Quote[highlight]From the spin files winkel
posted I can see no evidence that
betting is other than on unhit numbers.[/highlight]
Ignoring facts is worse than to lie.
You just ignore that in the Test-Area there are about the half of all bettings on "1"s
That there is rarely a bet on "2"s or higher respects that there are just 50 spins watched.
QuoteI don't propose to develop this prog
further as my tests confirm my opinion
already expressed.
I like and prefer this. Because it absolutely helpless if you code something you don´t like nor understand.
bj
Thank you for the modification. What this program will do-----forget the G.U.T.-----is track numbers and how often they hit, right? This can be very valuable to me for another system I'm creating/inventing/stealing from someone!
Thanks again!
Sam
People
The software bj wrote is just what I've wanted for a long time. It will give a visual picture of the wheel for the last 25 spins. It's a flat graph with each number represented and the number of times it hit displayed.
I'm sure happy no one banned him or I wouldn't have this little jewel.
Natually, thanks winkel are in order. If you hadn't annoyed him so, I wouldn't have this.
Sam
Yep - just made a post in the Brainstorming section Sam, refering to the usefullness of this little program.
Thanks BJB.
MM
@ winkel:Quote from: winkel on October 02, 2008, 11:45:21 AM
The only way would be to make a list of "one" crossing with the notation of what happened before and what happened in the next spins.
(see my previous answer to you)
referring to the Rule of betting how many time referring to the amount of numbers.
This was precisely what I asked for...
Why not?
@ TCSam:Have you tried Grabb's "Hot calculator"?
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/grabb/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/grabb/)
I think it does the same thing and then some...
No?
/KFS
KFS
I have it now! Thanks! I thought that site was defunct! Glad it's up again.
Sam
Quote from: winkel on October 02, 2008, 03:39:24 AM
Quote from: bjb007 on October 01, 2008, 11:45:25 PM
Having trouble understanding G.U.T.?
[attachimg=#]
Get Magic GUT now in Members Download area
sorry bjb,
even with the idea of herb there is one thing missing:
The trigger to bet and its developing.
Try the GUT-tracker which presents all neccessary informations perfectly.
You are just counting how often a number has hit. Herb would call it: a useless information
br
winkel
Hi Winkel,
A number of members have developement some simple software for tracking.Can you recommend one for a newbie like me?
Anything else winkel?
[attachimg=#]
I like the program modification.
Herb
I should have pointed out that the "Draw Graph" function
isn't implemented yet. Working on it.
Good work.
The great l.o.d system - This has to be the worlds biggest l .o. b. ( load of boll(|)(|)ks)
|
U
@mods
ref: the splitting
Is the post by kingspin an adequate reply full of arguments nicely written?
let your forum being destoyed by these idiots.
and tell them this is the pit for all their idiotism.
I stop and give no further advices for this strategy.
winkel
I saw your post before the complaint. At that time, I felt you should have your say where you wanted--on your thread. I did not split the thread at that time. I did receive a complaint on your post and I did not on Kingspin's.
winkel you have been disrespected on this forum more than any member I know. I wish that weren't the case, but it seems to be. But recently tucktuckster stated your system works! Brother, why not just talk to those who want to learn and ignore the rest?
If I can do it you can do it!
You stick around, now!
Sam
Toby's post was moved by mistake. Since winkel quoted him, there would be no reason for me to move it. I am re-posting it here.
Sorry, toby!
You need more K to fullproof Winkel´s system, especially if you flatbet.
Clocking previous spins has been tested not to be usefull for a long term system.
Winkel´s system sinks by the 2.7%.
You can be stagnant to a certain profit or loss but it trends to go down.
Sorry for my truth, it is what I experienced in my years of player.
You need a winning progression to succeed.
BR
That is the best I can do. I do not know how to insert a post between posts, so I can't put it back where it was.
Sam
Thanks Sam.
Mr Chips.
I think this idea would work.
A Section for the Implementation of The System.
And Another section for Questions on that System.
If this Idea gets the go ahead from Victor then We as Moderators could move any Question from the Implementation section to the Question Section that way the Thread could continue as the Author meant it to be.
Is This the sort of Thing that You are looking for. ???
Your Friend.
Lanky
I second what Chips has said.
The attack on Winkel was really unwaranted. Not only was he kind to share his system for free from which so many have benefited, but it also has created so much interest on this forum that over forty pages have been written including software programs!
To curse him and his system in the vile way as some have done is beyond the pale and the moderators should have done something to these idiots long ago before it got to this stage!
OK so some have their reservations about the system, everybody has an opinion and is free to express it on a forum as long as it has true content as is not abusive.
Anyway I'd like to thank Winkel for this thread even though I might have found it difficult to follow at times. But it has certainly made me sit back and think about roulette deeper.
So 'Thanks Winkel'! ;)
Quote from: winkel on October 08, 2008, 07:05:28 PM
Quote from: toby on October 08, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
Thanks for being a tolerant and kind forumer.
Who do you think you are?
K=1000s of spins to test.
There are only 3 ways to beat the wheel:
1)hitting more than average tested in proper thousends of spins
2)hitting the average but building a winning progression positive or negative
3)playing on biased numbers
Answer it if you can without telling S words or attacking without speaking about roulette
1. I´m a genius
2. If you had hardly read the topic you would know that this is testest with more than 10 million spins
3. It does hit more than the average tested in 10 milion spins
4, it is hitting that much, that it doesn´t need any progression. If a player is used to it and knows how to read whats going on, he might be free to use a progression, because he knows it will recover "always"!!!!!!
4. Any systems should work on any kind of generator: Live-Wheel, RNG or Air-Spins(toucbets) on Mini-roulette as well. and this definitly does!
Your remarks just show, that you didn´t read anything therefore you simply don´t know what it is all about.
So please don´t talk about things you don´t know nothing about. Perhaps your wife will accept that, not me.
I think that winkel or anyone else who
comes to a forum and makes a post with the title
"The Holy Gral (Grail ?) or G.U.T the Great Universal Theory"
or anything even half as pretentious is putting
themselves up for abuse if they then fail to deliver.
The title says it all as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: bjb007 on October 09, 2008, 05:44:37 AM
...... if they then fail to deliver.
did I? who can proof I did?
Hi winkel,
At least I offered to prove that you DO deliver, a few pages back.
Unfortunately you didn't take my offer, obviously leaving some in doubt.
But that's your choice...
And now I've got better things to do.
Regards,
KFS
Quote from: Kon-Fu-Sed on October 09, 2008, 09:20:29 AM
At least I offered to prove that you DO deliver, a few pages back.
KFS
Was this a tongue-in-cheek comment? When you make that statement, it seems that you are saying that winkel
is right and you are offering to prove it. Then again, you could be saying winkel delivers empty promises. It depends on the reader's interpretation.
Care to clarify?
Sam
Hi Sam,
I am only referring to what I offered to do, in post #589 and again in post #598 (both on page 40).
In short: Show me only one situation you know beats math and I will check my spins-files for that situation and report the end result.
winkel claims that the method beats math in 10 million spins (see his yesterday posts in the pit, for example).
Who am I to doubt?
/KFS
Mr Chips
You are the second most disrespected member of this forum. What has been said to you/written about you is tantamount to calling you a liar. I don't like it a bit as I feel you are truthful when you make your statements about the 4Selecta.
winkel may be hard to understand, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. I'll tell you this truthfully: If I had put in the hours on the G.U.T. that I have on the 4Selecta, I could testify as to its usefulness. I have tested the 4Selecta enough to make this statement: Something is there! I can't say that about the G.U.T. I can say I put in a few dozen, if not hundred, hours testing and learning the 4Selecta; I have not with the G.U.T. Maybe I should.
Now.....why do I want winkel to "stick around"? I believe that's the germane question. (Play on words intended!) Because he may say something somewhere down the road that creates the "AH HA!" moment for me. The light bulb will go off over my head! Just like when KFS explained the 50% edge problem I had.
Secondly, I have to ask myself why a man would endure the insults he has when he's making no money and getting no respect and very little appreciation?
Two people are hiding behind walls with one stone (insult) between them. As long as they hurl the stone back and forth, the fight continues. If one just let's the stone lie where it fell, the fight ends.
The simple answer to this problem is this......Ignore the insults; speak to the students.
Sam
Quote from: Kon-Fu-Sed on October 09, 2008, 10:50:53 AM
In short: Show me only one situation you know beats math and I will check my spins-files for that situation and report the end result.
Hi KFS,
I can´t show you [highlight]one[/highlight] that beats the math nor the house-edge.
This strategy simply goes on this:
Because I play all crossings that appear I get a mix of the crossings that are bound to loose and those that are bound to win.
e.g.
If I play a 15-15 I have the exspect of 15/37 or in other style my odds 15:22 odds against me 22:15
15 times I win 21
22 times I loose 15
here is the house-edge
but to make me loose on that day all crossings have to be on a loosing streak.
And this occasion is more rare so it keeps me winning long-time.
To make me win I [highlight]need[/highlight] all selections appearing in their statistical manner.
Hard to understand, but try it.
another point that makes me win:
if there only appears 1 single number I don´t bet, because there is no crossing
if there appear all 37 number I don´t bet because there is only 1 crossing 19-18
to have a crossing I need more than 19 numbers to appear
now look at the statistics how many 37-spin-rows [highlight]must have a crossing[/highlight]
The 15/37 that give the statistics its houseedge I don´t bet, because they are in the no-crossing-section (15-13-9; 15-17-5; and others possible)
So I repeat:
- there is no use to test 1 single combination for crossings
- and it is necessary to add [highlight]gamblers intelligence[/highlight] to it
because if 15-15 appears by this row:
20-10
19-11
18-12
17-13
16-14
15-15
I dont bet
if it appears
15-20
15-19
15-18
15-17
15-16
15-15
I bet. and that makes the difference to the statistical expectation of hitting one of the 15 numbers I bet.
br
winkel
Quote from: Mr Chips on October 09, 2008, 03:15:26 AM
I think it is unrealistic to be expected to ignore adverse comments and even if you do others will join in for or against and the thread just becomes a nonsense.
Mr Chips
Mr Chips
It is tedious to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat, but I see no other way except to give winkel his own section like Turbo's and let him delete any post he deems disrespectful. Who wants to read one man's opinion? And what keeps the detractor from starting his own thread to ridicule? Then the original author would join the detractor's thread and on it would go!
We must come to the conclusion there is no perfect solution and go back to studying roulette. Wasn't that what this forum was originally designed for? Seems so long ago, I've forgotten!
Sam
Quote from: winkel on October 09, 2008, 11:24:07 AM
Quote from: Kon-Fu-Sed on October 09, 2008, 10:50:53 AM
In short: Show me only one situation you know beats math and I will check my spins-files for that situation and report the end result.
Hi KFS,
I can´t show you [highlight]one[/highlight] that beats the math nor the house-edge.
This strategy simply goes on this:
Because I play all crossings that appear I get a mix of the crossings that are bound to loose and those that are bound to win.
e.g.
If I play a 15-15 I have the exspect of 15/37 or in other style my odds 15:22 odds against me 22:15
15 times I win 21
22 times I loose 15
here is the house-edge
but to make me loose on that day all crossings have to be on a loosing streak.
And this occasion is more rare so it keeps me winning long-time.
Winkel,
this, atleast for me, is your best explaination of your system. Thank you. It shows, in basic form, what your system is looking for and also shows how the house edge factors in. It also shows that it is possible to lose (should all your crossings be on a losing streak at the same time). Very rare though, I would assume, which would explain why it's winning.
I haven't tested this, which is why I haven't commented much on it. But your above quote has made it much more clearer to me.
Regards, and keep up the good work.
Matt
Hello winkel,
Thanks :) you gave an example of a situation when you bet.
I will look for that situation in my files.
Maybe it doesn't occur that many times in my Wiesbaden spins but I also have recieved many years of Hamburg spins.
And you claim it beats the RNG so that's a few million spins as well.
I'll report back after the week-end.
KFS
Well, gang, this will be interesting!
I can hardly wait!
s
I'll throw my hat into the ring. Yes there is risk and I have lost and have gotten frustrated, however I've also had some wins, wins that would make more money than the losses, so I am confident about GUT.
I even play using Bjb's programs in several windows for multiple opportunities.
You have my respect.--PR
winkel
I'd like to discuss your scrolling chart you put in your posts. I understand all but the R N F. Here is the way I have figured it out:
R means (2 or >2) Why? Because the numbers increase only, never decrease.
N means exactly 2 hits. Why? Because when any number hits for the third time, this column decreases.
F means either 3 or (3 and >3) I'm not sure which.
I have hard copied all those scrolling charts and plan to study them individually. But if I don't know what I'm looking at, then I'm lost at the outset.
Sam
proofreaders2000
Pleased to see some positive comment.
It's about time a few more showed up I think.
New version of my prog now in Members Downloads
Area. Outputs identical data to Tracker - but more
user-friendly I think.
Sam
Make it easy on yourself...get the new version
of my Crossings Checker and use the manual
input to put in the numbers winkel and others
have supplied.
You can then load the file in auto mode and go
through it as many time as you like.
Will definitely give you more time with the family!
bjb
I will certainly do that, but I would like to hear from winkel what these things mean to him. Only then can I reconcile in my mind what is going on.
Thanks!
Sam
Hi TCS,
the titles are not clearly written in the copy
this is the original:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1223575217.png&hash=cb82d6b2761d3d21cccfea7605588d6f338d59e3)
R = "0"
N = "1"
F = ">1"
F2 = "2"
F3 = ">2"
Hope you can read the columns correctly.
br
winkel
winkel
Thank you, Professor Plein!
I will work very hard on this. I will run two programs (droidman's and bj's) at the same time and make my own Redneck chart and figure it out!!
Sam
This is the statistic of the clinical play for 36 days (see Testing Area)
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touchbet , Live , tot
all , 416 , -63 , 717 , [highlight]1070[/highlight]
1 , -32 , 37 , 55 , 60
2 , -17 , 77 , -26 , 34
3 , 59 , -43 , -22 , -6
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11
5 , 5 , -14 , -16 , -25
6 , 47 , 84 , 15 , 146
7 , -6 , -79 , 71 , -14
8 , -10 , -13 , -2 , -25
9 , -45 , -30 , 2 , -73
10 , 26 , 81 , -49 , 58
11 , -3 , -9 , 153 , 141
12 , 17 , 37 , 25 , 79
13 , 6 , -33 , 56 , 29
14 , 4 , -107 , 110 , 7
15 , 113 , 5 , 3 , 121
16 , 22 , -59 , 2 , -35
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97
18 , 59 , -30 , 103 , 132
19 , -6 , -69 , -64 , -139
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81
21 , -55 , -45 , 42 , -58
22 , 15 , 64 , 1 , 80
23 , 29 , 0 , 92 , 121
24 , 47 , -10 , -14 , 23
25 , -12 , -60 , -111 , -183
26 , 19 , 27 , 35 , 81
27 , 5 , -2 , 73 , 76
28 , 69 , -17 , -9 , 43
29 , -43 , 2 , 23 , -18
30 , 57 , 26 , 84 , 167
31 , 19 , -15 , -37 , -33
32 , 5 , -27 , -10 , -32
33 , -69 , 52 , 35 , 18
34 , 33 , 46 , -93 , -14
35 , 5 , 28 , 61 , 94
36 , 25 , 77 , 108 , 210
[/table]
same strategy (clinical) with stop at win/loss +40/-40
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touch , Live , day result , bankroll tot
all , -75 , -268 , 328 , ,
1 , -49 , -40 , 41 , -48 , -48
2 , -40 , 46 , -26 , -20 , -68
3 , 59 , -41 , -44 , -26 , -94
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11 , -105
5 , -40 , -14 , -40 , -94 , -199
6 , 47 , 41 , 41 , 129 , -70
7 , 44 , -52 , 59 , 51 , -19
8 , -50 , 40 , 44 , 34 , 15
9 , 27 , -40 , -44 , -57 , -42
10 , 56 , 44 , -45 , 55 , 13
11 , -48 , -9 , 55 , -2 , 11
12 , -44 , 37 , 25 , 18 , 29
13 , 6 , -23 , 43 , 26 , 55
14 , -44 , -40 , 44 , -40 , 15
15 , 45 , -50 , 3 , -2 , 13
16 , 54 , 41 , 2 , 97 , 110
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97 , 207
18 , -40 , -30 , 43 , -27 , 180
19 , -6 , -45 , -43 , -94 , 86
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81 , 5
21 , -40 , -44 , 42 , -42 , -37
22 , -42 , 64 , 1 , 23 , -14
23 , -44 , 0 , 43 , -1 , -15
24 , 44 , -41 , -47 , -44 , -59
25 , -44 , -46 , -40 , -130 , -189
26 , -41 , -42 , 35 , -48 , -237
27 , 5 , -2 , 43 , 46 , -191
28 , 42 , -17 , 46 , 71 , -120
29 , -50 , 40 , 23 , 13 , -107
30 , 49 , 47 , 40 , 136 , 29
31 , 41 , -48 , -37 , -44 , -15
32 , 5 , -44 , 20 , -19 , -34
33 , -41 , 52 , 35 , 46 , 12
34 , 47 , 46 , -50 , 43 , 55
35 , 5 , 56 , 46 , 107 , 162
36 , 25 , 51 , 50 , 126 , 288
[/table]
same strategy (clinical) stopp at win +40, don´t stopp at loss stopp at spin 50
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touch , Live , day result , bankroll tot
all , 422 , -82 , 352 , ,
1 , -32 , 37 , 41 , 46 , 46
2 , -17 , 46 , -26 , 3 , 49
3 , 59 , -43 , -22 , -6 , 43
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11 , 32
5 , -18 , -14 , -16 , -48 , -16
6 , 47 , 41 , 41 , 129 , 113
7 , 44 , -79 , 59 , 24 , 137
8 , -10 , 40 , 44 , 74 , 211
9 , -45 , -30 , 2 , -73 , 138
10 , 56 , 44 , -49 , 51 , 189
11 , -3 , -9 , 55 , 43 , 232
12 , 17 , 37 , 25 , 79 , 311
13 , 6 , -23 , 43 , 26 , 337
14 , 4 , -66 , 44 , -18 , 319
15 , 45 , 5 , 3 , 53 , 372
16 , 54 , 41 , 2 , 97 , 469
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97 , 566
18 , 59 , -30 , 43 , 72 , 638
19 , -6 , -64 , -69 , -139 , 499
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81 , 418
21 , -55 , -45 , 42 , -58 , 360
22 , 15 , 64 , 1 , 80 , 440
23 , 29 , 0 , 43 , 72 , 512
24 , 44 , -10 , -14 , 20 , 532
25 , -12 , -60 , -111 , -183 , 349
26 , 19 , 27 , 35 , 81 , 430
27 , 5 , -2 , 43 , 46 , 476
28 , 42 , -17 , 46 , 71 , 547
29 , -43 , 40 , 23 , 20 , 567
30 , 49 , 47 , 40 , 136 , 703
31 , 41 , -15 , -37 , -11 , 692
32 , 5 , -27 , 20 , -2 , 690
33 , -41 , 52 , 35 , 46 , 736
34 , 47 , 46 , -93 , 0 , 736
35 , 5 , 56 , 46 , 107 , 843
36 , 25 , 51 , 50 , 126 , 969
[/table]
for that I recommend:
stopp (jump back) at >= +40
stopp at spin 50
Money management:
Play BankRoll: 200
Refill BankRoll (to always have 200 at the table): 200
Restart BankRoll: 200
What ever will be more than 600 you can spent for something nice.
br
winkel
for those who like pictures:
picture 1: table 1 in the post before
picture 2: line game after game - not day by day
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1223576763.png&hash=8f85d47fd00e87669a29424f5cedce30204c0bc6)
winkel
Suddenly it's all very clear! Now I can proceed! The column headings were what was throwing me.
Sam
I have constructed a "header" for winkel's rolling/scrolling charts so that when I print them I can slide this up and down and know what I'm looking at. Take a look:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg511.imageshack.us%2Fimg511%2F5724%2Fcoupsic0.jpg&hash=3da0039ab7f6843832eddca73a40f0a881096543) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
Since the "AH HA" moment an hour or so ago, I have had very little time to study this and I'm off to the movies, so it will be later.
Let's not dismiss winkel just yet. This is a very interesting study!
Sam
Thanks Winkel the test!
It is very impressive, even if you play all trigger, not only the good ones.
ernesto
Thx for the GUT Winkel !!!
ps: muss mir das nochmal durchlesen, glaube ich hab es noch nicht zu 100% kapiert ;)
Sorry my english is very bad....
Winkl rocks we need more like him on this forum
Willing to put forward his method we try pick it apart but still holds up
Good for you mate
You got expect to be flamed i guess but keep up good work
Regards Rodney
This cut is taken from reply #1, Wiesbaden T3, from the "Testing G.U.T." thread.
0 1 2
44 13 41 11 16 10
45 10 rr 66 10 17 10
46 15 66 10 17 10
47 23 66 10 16 11
Referring to line 44, you had a 0 v 2 potential "near crossing" and it won. Then on line 45 you had an actual potential crossing on 0 v 2 and again on line 46 a 0 v 2 but neither of them were bet. Why?
Sam
This cut is from post #2, Wiesbaden T8, from the Testing Zone.
38 23 rr -18 13 14 10
39 36 -18 12 15 10
40 10 -18 12 15 10
41 31 -18 12 14 11
42 27 -18 11 15 11
43 14 rr 7 10 16 11
44 2 7 10 16 11
Concerning line 41, you have a potential "near crossing" with 0 v 2 and there was no bet placed. Then on line 42 you have a potential crossing with 0 v 2 and you bet that one.
It would seem what you did in post #1 and post #2 are exactly opposite.
Could you explain, please?
Sam
Hi TCS,
1. When I play the wiesbaden tables I play them paralell as they appear on the screen.
So there might be mistakes occuring by switching between the tables.
2. When I started the test I sometimes played with my "old style" that means with decisions made during the game.
When I noticed that, I changed to play clearly every crossing.
3. now to your question #1
normally if a crossing has crossed and it builds another crossing, I don´t rebet!
so I stopped there.
This situation shows another problem that you will find:
one crossing is to bet max. 3 times (with 10 numbers). when 11-10 hits and a 10-10 appears is this the second bet on the same crossing or the first bet on the new crossing.
This would have been correct to the "clinical style"
11 17 10 bet -11
10 17 10 win 36 bet -10
10 17 11 no bet
total result +55 instead of 65
4. Your second questions
same thing
if you follow the bet on "0"
loss
recover
loss
loss
loss
recover
now I predict normally another loss-loss
as it changed the rythm to "win - ?" I restarted to bet.
and it came win
correct in the clinical way:
12-11 bet -12
11-11 win +36 bet -11
10-11 win +36 and trigger dead
total result +61 instead of +37
all in all
I "cheated" on table 3 a loss of -10 and
I "cheated" on table 8 a win of +24
playing two tables at the same time may produce mistakes, I hope this is acceptable. and as long it is not to my favour it may be okay.
If you wanna learn the real game try to discuss the big losses and what decisions would have been better than the clinical rules say.
br
winkel
winkel
I did notice the mistakes did not help you.
Thanks for the explanation. Let me have a few days to learn the basics as you've taught them, and then I will happily move on to the better rules.
Sam
Hi winkel,
First of all thank you very much for your effort to explain us your GUT selection method.
I have a question: I supouse you programmed your 10 million spins test, so: can you say us what rules did you use to test your 10 million spins? Did you use the "clinical rules" you are using in the testing zone? or did you use another rules?
Thanks in advence and greetings for your good work.
BR, webworker.
Hello All,
As I suspected already yesterday (I said I had other things to do) I cannot engage myself until next week - almost certainly not before Wenesday.
If someone else want to prove winkel correct - please go ahead.
I'm off from here within an hour or so...
(The life of an entrepreneur: any contract is a good contract, even if it's ruining your weekend and includes boring travel)
@webworker:
You wrote:
"I supouse you programmed your 10 million spins test, so: can you say us what rules did you use to test your 10 million spins? Did you use the "clinical rules" you are using in the testing zone? or did you use another rules?"
A very good question. I was wondering the same thing myself.
Have a nice weekend, all!
See you next week.
KFS
@webworker and @kfs
I tested it another way: the way I described to KFS.
If there is a crossing at a certain spin does it hit more often than it should by x/37.
Then I compared the hitting with the unhitting spins and tried to find a difference between them.
So I found the way of "watching what´s going on".
Please see my different hints, like in the answers to KFS or the recent explanations to TCS.
br
winkel
38 13 46 11 14 12 12
39 2 46 11 13 13 13
winkel
Referring to the red below:
40 10 nr 69 11 12 14 14
41 18 69 10 13 14 14
42 22 69 10 13 14 13
43 28 69 10 13 14 12
44 25 69 9 14 14 12
45 32 nr 55 9 14 14 11
46 31 nr 77 9 13 15 12
In lines 42 and 43 you had a 1 v 2 crossing and no bet on either. Then on line 44 and 45 you had a 1 v >1 and you bet twice. Lines 44 and 45 do not bother me, but I can't see why you failed to bet on the 42 and 43 crossings.
Had you bet on them, your profit for the trot would have been +51 and not 77
Sam
Hi TCS,
again an very early thing:
It seems to be as I explained before: I made still decisions:
we are after spin 41 and all the ">1"s are = "2" (count 14)
If you look at the graph nolinks://vlsroulette.com/full-systems/the-holy-gral-or-g-u-t-the-great-universal-theory/msg17755/#msg17755 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/full-systems/the-holy-gral-or-g-u-t-the-great-universal-theory/msg17755/#msg17755) the "2" have their limit at 10. it is high over that limit so a "3" is to appear soon. this means the crossing will appear not by hitting a "1" but by hitting a "2".
This is risky so I didn´t bet.
Then happened what I assumed. so I could go back to normal betting.
The columns "1" and "2" will now behave like "0" and "1" in the previous spins:
Hit - don´t - hit - don´t
br
winkel
Crossings Checker now has graphs.
Load some spins and watch the little lines
fight it out.
[attachimg=#]
In Members Download area.
Hi bjb,
Thanks for this, I like the graph. There are:
red for =0
green for >1
blue for >2
orange for >3
Missing lines are for =1 and =2. Could you
add them please?
Also with manual input, the graph lags behind
the numbers input.
Here are five screen shots of today's play at Bella Vegas:
[attachimg=#1]
In the above screen shot, the 0 vs >1 appears. We begin to bet on it. Watch what happens.
[attachimg=#2]
[attachimg=#3]
[attachimg=#4]
We have bet four times and lost and the trigger is gone. Then it wins!
[attachimg=#5]
winkel,
Did I do this right?
Sam
winkel
Here is another screen shot from today.
[attachimg=#1]
Concerning the 1 v 2, even though they don't cross, would you bet them as we did in the above five screen shots?
What I am trying to determine is this: Why are we betting when there is no crossing? And if we do bet when there is no crossing "sometimes" why not all the time?
I am not knocking this G.U.T. Today I say many potential crossings become crossings and it won money!
Sam
Hi TCS,
please for a beginner only play 0,1,>1 and 2
Then look what is going on. look at the distribution I showed in "view at statistics"
You got 10 20 7 in spin 37
"0"s are 4 hits in front
"1"s are 6 hits back
"2"s are 3 hits back
This is a very rare situation.
It is high pressure on the "1"s
This pressure is that big, that there will be a mix of "1"s and "2"s to hit in the next spins.
Why should I bet on "0"s????????? even though a crossing might appear?
better jump back if there is such a pressure.
br
winkel
QuoteConcerning the 1 v 2, even though they don't cross, would you bet them as we did in the above five screen shots?
What I am trying to determine is this: Why are we betting when there is no crossing? And if we do bet when there is no crossing "sometimes" why not all the time?
I don´t understand.
Where did I bet when there was no crossing? Or where did I tell someting like that?
br
winkel
Professor
I will back up and print your entire thread and read it from cover to cover. It beats watching my 401K go down the drain!!
I'll get back to you. Maybe I'm still mistaken!
Your Friend,
TwoCatSam
Sam
In your #651 post when the 0 vs >1 trigger is gone, but one trigger is appear, the 0 vs 2. So you can play in the next spin with 10 number and recover a little.
ernesto
Quote from: droidman on October 10, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
Hi bjb,
Thanks for this, I like the graph. There are:
red for =0
green for >1
blue for >2
orange for >3
Missing lines are for =1 and =2. Could you
add them please?
Also with manual input, the graph lags behind
the numbers input.
Fixed the graphics in vr2.2 now in Members Downloads.
It was one of those things that deserves a line of code:
"put programmer into asylum".
Let me know if there's anything else that could do
with a tweak.
0 1X 2+
11 12 14
WHEN THE CROSSING FROM 0 VS 1 AND 1 VS 2 ARE MADE:
1- PLAY THE 2 VS 3 AND 3 VS 4 ETC...
OR
2- START A NEW GAME
IS THIS RIGHT ??
Ernesto
It would seem I am in a world of my own.
I understand a "potential crossing" such as this:
[table=,]
0,1,>1
10,9,3
[/table]
In the above, you would bet 0 vs 1. A hit does two things: It decreases the quantity of numbers in the 0 line of the software and it increases the quantity of numbers in the 1 section of the software. On a graph one line goes up and full notch and one line goes down a full notch and they cross!
In the following example:
[table=,]
0,1,>1
10,11,9
[/table]
I seem to understand there is a potential crossing now at 0 vs >1. I am saying there is no potential crossing of these two lines! Plain and simple. If you bet on the 0s and get a win, here is your table:
[table=,]
0,1,>1
9,12,9
[/table]
At this point, yes, you could still bet for 0 vs >1, but it would only be a crossing where one data point moved. The >1 would remain the same! By the same token, you could bet on all the >1 numbers and if you had a winner, you would still have a crossing.
Here is the overall question: If you can bet in the above situations where there is clearly no possibility of a crossing, why can't you bet in ANY case where there is clearly no possibility of a crossing?
Sam
Sam
I think we can bet in every three trigger in your examples.
Winkel wrote somewhere the basic rules:
play only difference 0 or 1
stopp playing when difference >1
Quote
[table=,]
0,1,>1
9,12,9
[/table]
At this point, yes, you could still bet for 0 vs >1, but it would only be a crossing where one data point moved. The >1 would remain the same! By the same token, you could bet on all the >1 numbers and if you had a winner, you would still have a crossing.
If you want to bet >1 you need 2 or >2 column to found a trigger. You can't play >1s when you found 0 vs >1 trigger, only you can use this trigger one way, can't apply backwards.
Winkel can you confirm me?
ernesto
OK, I must be really missing something here.
I am going to stop posting on this thread until I have found my examples.
Sam
Now I see what you are discussing!
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 11, 2008, 11:29:19 AM
I understand a "potential crossing" such as this:
[table=,]
0,1,>1
10,9,3
[/table]
In the above, you would bet 0 vs 1. A hit does two things: It decreases the quantity of numbers in the 0 line of the software and it increases the quantity of numbers in the 1 section of the software. On a graph one line goes up and full notch and one line goes down a full notch and they cross!
This is absolutely correct!!!!
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 11, 2008, 11:29:19 AM
In the following example:
[table=,]
0,1,>1
10,11,9
[/table]
I seem to understand there is a potential crossing now at 0 vs >1. I am saying there is no potential crossing of these two lines! Plain and simple. If you bet on the 0s and get a win, here is your table:
[table=,]
0,1,>1
9,12,9
[/table]
You just examined, that there are two kinds of crossings.
This referrs to the two kinds of behaviour of our columns (lines)
As I said:
a) 1 line is strictly going down to zero (the "0")
b) following lines are going up first and then going down to zero
(almost waving in between presenting several crossings)
"1" "2" "3" "4" etc.
c) following lines are strictly going up (because they are sums)
>1 >2 >3 >4 etc.
If you play a b) vs b) or an a) vs B) you have your description of "potential crossing" as you called them
If you bet a) vs a c):
as a) is defined as a "strictly falling down" it has to fall under the lines of the c)s
now the examples
10 any 9
can move to
[table=,]
2 wins , 1 win ,1 win , 1 loss , 2 losses
, , 10 any 9 , ,
, , , ,
, 9 any 9 , or , 10 any 10 ,
, , , ,
8 any 9 , or , 9 any 10 , or , 10 any 11
[/table]
your probaility to win is 1:1, so why don´t bet?
due to a systems break down it came in twice, sorry!
Now to the math on that risk:
If we bet just one spin;
left side win 36-10=26
right side loss =-10
If we bet both triggers
left side win win: -10+36 -9+36 = +53
right side loss loss: -10-10 = -20
right middle loss win = -10-10+36=+16
left middle win loss = -10+36-9 = +17
isn´t that a nice expectation?
br
winkel
winkel
I deleted the second post.
My head is about to explode. I have copied your reply and must take a break!
Thanks for your patience with me.
Sam
@TCS
thanks for deleting the double
Now as we get in the deeper I hope all can see why this strategy is bound to win long term.
@ernesto
your definition is absolutely correct. my respect to you and thks.
br
winkel
Well, this response is 666 on this thread. Is that an omen?
ernesto, you wrote:
If you want to bet >1 you need 2 or >2 column to found a trigger. You can't play >1s when you found 0 vs >1 trigger, only you can use this trigger one way, can't apply backwards.
in post 660. Of course, you are right.
Sam
Hi bjb,
Thanks for the hard work, it's getting closer!
The lines should be separate though, for example,
there should be a line for the number of numbers that have hit
exactly twice, not more than twice. Then a whole different
line for the number of numbers that have hit more than once.
Let me break down the concept, because it's important to the system.
Say 16 hits. That makes the =1 line go up to 1, because it hit exactly once.
Ok 16 hits again. 16 no longer has hit exactly once, so the =1 line
should go back down to 0, and the >1 line goes up to 1. Another separate
line has also changed, the =2 line goes from 0 to 1, because one number
(16) has hit exactly twice.
Now 25 hits. That makes the =1 line go up to 1, because there
is only one number (25) that hit exactly once. >1 line stays at 1,
because there is only one number (16) that has hit more than once.
Now 25 hits again. 25 has no longer hit exactly once, so the =1 line
goes back down to 0. The >1 line goes to 2 now, because there are
2 numbers that have hit more than once. Another separate line has
also changed, the =2 line goes from 1 to 2 because there are now
2 numbers (16 and 25) that have hit exactly twice.
Ok, 25 hits again. Line =1 stays at 0, no numbers have hit exactly once.
Line >1 stays at 2, because 2 numbers (16 and 25) have both hit more than once.
But now the =2 line goes from 2 to 1 because only one number (16) has
hit exactly twice. And now the line >2 goes from 0 to 1, because there
is one number (25) that has hit more than twice. AND the line =3 goes to 1,
because 1 number (25) has hit exactly 3 times.
I know this sounds redundant, and I'm not trying to argue that >1 is not the
same as 2, cause it is. Just a different way of presenting information.
I guess a minor tweak would be to run the color legend across the top, instead
of down into the graph.
Keep up the good work!
Hi,
does the trigger only work if the left column is higher or the same as the right column, eg-
0 has to be greater or the same as 1 column,
if 1 column is 1unit greater than the 0 column you cannot use that as a trigger, is this correct?
@twocatsam
the real number of the devil is 616, it got miss translated through history to 666 so your safe lol!
Hi Ryan
thats correct
br
winkel
to compare the chances for a "potential crossing"
[table=,]
, 1 win , 1 loss 1 win , 1 loss , 2 loss , 1 loss ,
, , , , , ,
, , , 15 14 8 , , ,
, , , , , ,
, 14 15 8 , , 15 14 8 , , 15 13 9 ,
, , , , , ,
no bet , , 14 15 8 , , 15 13 9 , , no bet
, , , , , ,
results , 21 + , 6 + , -15 , -30 , -15 ,
[/table]
droidman
I might be wrong but it seems to me that what
you're saying is that >1 doesn't mean >1 but
the difference between total of numbers with
one hit and total of numbers with 2 hits.
Since this is represented by the difference between
the 1-hit graph and the 2-hit graph I don't see
any advantage in potting it. It's represented visually
and the two lines will always get closer as spins are
added whereas the difference will go up an down and
not be much, if any, use.
Unless I've misconstrued your explanation...
look at this and you will see there is an useful information in it
R="0" blue
N="1" pink
F= ">1" dark red
F2= "2" yellow
F3= "3" light blue
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1222032070.png&hash=572dfb103a38411ac6308c30fc07779e9241ba71)
bjb
Yes, the difference lines going up and down are the
heart of the system.
Looking at the chart above, the pink line is going down
because the total of numbers that have hit exactly once is
going down. Now at spin 34 (edit: i mean spin 37) you bet the group of numbers
that have hit exactly once, and the line crosses down because
one of the numbers you bet has won.
So to explain the needed lines on the chart:
total of numbers with 0 hits (aka "0")
total of numbers that have hit >=1 minus the total of numbers that have hit >1 (aka "1")
total of numbers that have hit >1 (aka ">1")
total of numbers that have hit >1 minus the total of numbers that have hit >2 (aka "2")
total of numbers that have hit >2 (aka ">2")
"3's" aren't all that necessary, you should jump back before looking for
crossings there anyway.
Here are the "trackables" we need.......
I know I am repeating what droidman just posted, but I like the word "exactly".
Exactly 0
Exactly 1
>1
Exactly 2
>2
Exactly 3
>3
As droidman says, we can do without the Exactly 3 and >3 if you're out of colors. The other five are really necessary.
Thanks, bj!
Sam
Quote from: droidman on October 12, 2008, 03:36:22 PM
Looking at the chart above, the pink line is going down
because the total of numbers that have hit exactly once is
going down. Now at spin 34 you bet the group of numbers
that have hit exactly once, and the line crosses down because
one of the numbers you bet has won.
Sorry this is not correct.
The pink line is exactly "1".
When it is going down a "2" must go up (and the ">1"-line as well).
This crossing is not a win with a bet on "0"s.
For that the blue line should have gone down at spin 34!!!!!!! But it is equal since several spins.
This would lead us to a higher stage of the game: analysing which group to bet to win on every and each crossing of the lines. but this would confuse too much at this point.
To have a hit at this spin 34 you had have to bet "1"s. At this point TCS would say "Betting when there is no crossing" This crossing can´t be raed from the counting we use at the moment.
br
winkel
Hi winkel
Thanks for the correction. I've edited it
and fixed the mistake.
If we say spin 37 instead of 34, we're still
betting the group of numbers that hit exactly
once. Then the pink line (=1) crosses dark red (>1)
and wins.
To Whomever is still alive........
I am going through the entire thread (again!) and adding to my repository of "relevant" information. How I missed this the first time around, I don't know.
In this study, winkel is betting the very first crossing after the 19/18 (0v1) or (0v1+>1) or (0v>0), whichever comes and however you look at it. Here is his exact wording by him:
QUOTE:
This is a test of 100 permanences.
the result of the first 50 is this:
The results are strictly made by this rules:
played is always only the first crossing after crossing 19-18
played until win
played maximum bet-length (2x or 3x - see above)
19-18proof : this is to show why this cross is not recommended for betting
UNQUOTE
Below is winkel's chart where his profits approach 600u.
Perm 1.Cross w/l tot 19-18 proof
1 10N-9F 26 26 win in 2.
2 9N-8F 18 44 win in 2.
3 9N-8F -9 35 win in 2.
4 11R-10N 25 60 win in 2.
5 11N-10F 25 85 win in 2.
6 11N-10F -11 74 win in 2.
7 14R-14N -28 46 win in 2.
8 14R-13N -14 32 win in 2.
9 15R-14N -15 17 win in 2.
10 15R-14N -15 2 win in 2.
11 15R-14N -15 -13 win in 2.
12 11N-11F 3 -10 win in 1.
13 11N-11F 14 4 win in 1.
14 10N-9F 15 19 win in 2.
15 10N-10F 4 23 win in 1.
16 11N-10F -22 1 win in 1.
17 11N-10F -22 -21 win in 1.
18 14R-14N 22 1 win in 1.
19 15R-14N 21 22 win in 1.
20 15R-14N 21 43 win in 1.
21 16R-15N -32 11 win in 1.
22 15R-14N 21 32 win in 3.
23 15R-14N 6 38 win in 3.
24 15R-14N 6 44 win in 3.
25 15R-15N 6 50 win in 3.
26 15R-15N 6 56 win in 4.
27 16R-15N 4 60 win in 4.
28 16R-15N 4 64 win in 1.
29 16R-15N 20 84 win in 1.
30 16R-16N 20 104 win in 1.
31 17R-16N 2 106 win in 1.
32 17R-16N 19 125 win in 2.
33 17R-16N 19 144 win in 2.
34 17R-16N 19 163 win in 2.
35 17R-16N 19 182 win in 1.
36 17R-16N 19 201 win in 1.
37 17R-16N 19 220 win in 1.
38 17R-16N -17 203 win in 1.
39 17R-16N 19 222 win in 1.
40 17R-16N -17 205 win in 1.
41 17R-17N 2 207 win in 1.
42 17R-16N -17 190 win in 1.
43 16R-15N 20 210 win in 2.
44 16R-15N 20 230 win in 2.
45 16R-15N 20 250 win in 3.
46 16R-15N 20 270 win in 3.
47 16R-16N 20 290 win in 1.
48 16R-16N 20 310 win in 2.
49 17R-16N 19 329 win in 2.
50 17R-17N 19 348 win in 2.
51 17R-17N 19 367 win in 1.
52 18R-17N 18 385 win in 1.
53 18R-18N 18 403 win in 1.
54 18R-18N 18 421 win in 1.
55 18R-18N -36 385 win in 1.
56 18R-18N -36 349 win in 1.
57 17R-17N 19 368 win in 4.
58 17R-17N 2 370 win in 1.
59 17R-16N 19 389 win in 1.
60 17R-16N -17 372 win in 2.
61 17R-16N -17 355 win in 2.
62 16R-15N 20 375 win in 1.
63 17R-16N -17 358 win in 1.
64 17R-16N 19 377 win in 2.
65 17R-17N 19 396 win in 2.
66 17R-17N 19 415 win in 1.
67 17R-17N 19 434 win in 1.
68 17R-17N 19 453 win in 1.
69 18R-17N 18 471 win in 1.
70 18R-18N 18 489 win in 1.
71 18R-18N 18 507 win in 1.
72 11R-10F 14 521 win in 1.
73 16R-16N 4 525 win in 1.
74 18R-18N 18 543 win in 1.
75 18R-18N -36 507 win in 2.
76 11N-11F 1 508 win in 6.
77 16R-15N -16 492 win in 4.
78 11N-10F -11 481 win in 2.
79 14R-13N 22 503 win in 2.
80 14R-13N 22 525 win in 2.
81 11N-10F -33 492 win in 5.
82 11N-10F -33 459 win in 4.
83 14R-14N 22 481 win in 5.
84 15R-14N 21 502 win in 5.
85 15R-15N 21 523 win in 1.
86 15R-15N 21 544 win in 3.
87 15R-15N 21 565 win in 2.
88 15R-15N 21 586 win in 2.
89 15R-15N -30 556 win in 3.
90 15R-15N -30 526 win in 3.
91 15R-15N -30 496 win in 1.
92 15R-14N 21 517 win in 1.
93 15R-14N -15 502 win in 1.
94 15R-14N -15 487 win in 1.
This is an exacting test with no wiggle room. I will do a test and post first the rules, and then the results.
To the Professor:
winkel...
I understand what you're doing in the above to be this:
1. Bet the first crossing after the 19/18.
2. If the crossing disappears after the first bet, stop.
3. Bet the crossing either two or three times, as permitted by dividing the bet into 36. 17=bet twice 11=bet 3 times.
4. May I use the same permanence and jump back at the appropriate time, or should I use a new trot? My numbers are in two pages of 100. Could I start on the second hundred if I can't jump back?
@Those who have not died of boredom....
Wouldn't it be something if I could replicate winkel's test results?
Sam
This is the graphs of winkel's profits:
Quote from: winkel on August 30, 2008, 08:34:05 PM
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1220139224.gif&hash=434cbb2e813eede6d60f579ed73c1e1879a267f9)
winkel
I've done some early testing on this and these questions arose:
1. Must you absolutely wait for the first crossing to appear? I am having 1v2 crossings occur before the 0v1. Must I wait for a 0v1 or can I bet the 1v2?
2. I had one that was a 0 v 1+2. It was an 18/19 and it won. Should I have bet it?
Sam
Had some time so I started. View my sheet, if you will.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg183.imageshack.us%2Fimg183%2F9017%2Fwnkl9282ndxingtestbo3.jpg&hash=a2f0ce95731edf84f580f705818a760931e2016e) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
There were three instances where the 19/18 did not even form before a 1v2 formed. I bet for 1v2.
Also, many times I had my second crossing come into sight when the 19/18 won. Same spin. Many times. Is this wrong.
While I won 57u, I am puzzled as to why my crossings are so different than yours. They should be somewhat the same, I would think.
Sam
Hi TCS,
you can do anything you want. If there´s a crossing: bet on it!
What I tried to proof with that 100spins test:
Normally you start with the first spin of the by testing a strategy. Some say: "Ha, but if you start at spin x or you enter the casino at midnight, what would be there?"
On th other hand I was to proof that there is always a crossing, a crossing [highlight]must appear[/highlight] and it wins more often, than is loses,
So I took a permanence and started at spin 1 played the first crossing but not 19-18.
Then I started with same perm but at spin 2, then at spin 3, then at spin 4 etc.
Any test you do will produce the same results. WIN!
br
winkel
[highlight]Also, many times I had my second crossing come into sight when the 19/18 won. Same spin. Many times. Is this wrong.[/highlight]
This happens when you have 19-17-2
after a win of "0" you get 18-18
You can bet this, but I wouldn´t, because
1 win = +18
1 win+1 loss = [highlight]0[/highlight]
2 losses = -36
I only play crossings where 1 win +1 loss produces a win >0
br
winkel
winkel
Thanks, Professor. I think I'm on the right track!
Sam
what if we have this scenaio
18 14 2 2 can we play this >1 and >2 we could play for 18 spins could we not I have a feeling this would win anyhow
Regards Rodney
I wouldn´t, but: play as long as a trigger is alive
If you look at the tests, you will find many losses either by diing the trigger or not hitting that 4 numbers anymore.
br
winkel
winkel,
it is good to have you back here.
there are plenty that appreciate the efforts you have done here and it is good that you are here.
Quote from: Natural9 on October 13, 2008, 05:18:41 PM
what if we have this scenaio
18 14 2 2 can we play this >1 and >2 we could play for 18 spins could we not I have a feeling this would win anyhow
Regards Rodney
Winkel going on my above example what would be the lowest number crossing you would be on what about something like 15 11 5 5 would you take the >1 crossing to the >2 column 5 5 would seem like a good bet here but what if it was like 3 3
Regards Rodney
I'm posting another sheet. This was September 4, 08. This is three 200-spin trots I've looked at. I'm up well over 130 units for the three. One lost 20u.
I am using Track2. It's much easier than Track3 when you compartmentalize your mind just right. The crossings just leap off the page at you. If there are progression players around...this thing very rarely loses three in a row. In this trot I saw a 4 v 3 win on the first bet. That would be 32u won.
This may be luck but it may not be. More testing will prove it one way or another.
Sam
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg376.imageshack.us%2Fimg376%2F5442%2Fscan0001sc6.jpg&hash=e113f43134b7af02bc4d3bce9c8e241cde9de0c4) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
TwocatSam,
So far to date, all relevant testing has shown this one performs exactly as expected. -2.7%
The testing that you show above bares no statistical significance because the sample size is too small.
So far to date, all relevant testing has shown this one performs exactly as expected. -2.7%
Care to link that to "relevant" data?
So far this system is a winner, profits are slow but you win - you could always bet more though.
Ive combined Winkels system with my own trend play and so far after 750 spins I am up $3,500.
How about you disprove Winkels system Herb - with logical reasoning or by demonstration.
QuoteHow about you disprove Winkels system Herb - with logical reasoning or by demonstration.
I already have. View reply 529.
A tough session......went down well over 100u and then back up to +21. This was 9.5.8
I guess I should get into the testing zone.
Advantage.Player..
Ummmm....sounds like you've got an advantage there, Bro!! If you ever care to share that method of yours, I'm a real nice guy! :)
Good on ya!!
Sam
Quote from: Natural9 on October 13, 2008, 11:08:28 PM
Quote from: Natural9 on October 13, 2008, 05:18:41 PM
what if we have this scenaio
18 14 2 2 can we play this >1 and >2 we could play for 18 spins could we not I have a feeling this would win anyhow
Regards Rodney
Winkel going on my above example what would be the lowest number crossing you would be on what about something like 15 11 5 5 would you take the >1 crossing to the >2 column 5 5 would seem like a good bet here but what if it was like 3 3
Regards Rodney
Hi Rodney,
as I said before this strategy needs experience as chess or bridge. Of course you can bet these crossings, but you have to have a good look to what´s going on.
Again to all beginners: Just start with betting on 0vs1, 1vs2, 0vs>1, 0vs2. Don´t watch more than 50 spins.
When you have played several hundreds of permanences you will have a feeling when to bet these crossings 2vs>2 or 2vs3.
They mostly appear when we have a permanence with very slow "0"s. you have then to realize this trend ending to stop your bets even the trigger is alive. That is a higher level of this strategy and not yet recommended for beginners,
There are lots of examples in the test-area please look there.
br
winkel
Quote from: Herb on October 14, 2008, 01:42:48 AM
QuoteHow about you disprove Winkels system Herb - with logical reasoning or by demonstration.
I already have. View reply 529.
That was just a farth in the dark.
[highlight]So far to date, all relevant testing has shown this one performs exactly as expected. -2.7%[/highlight]
all relevant testings? you didn´t even understand whats going on, so what have you tested?
and the tests of anyone who tries to study this strategy is just one more positiv result to the 10 000 000 spins test I did.
go back to the dark. Between the blinds the one eyed is the king. but in the dark he they know to move, the one eyed is lost.
Post 529 is just your typical -2.7% and roulette wheel has no memory crap that you always bring up Herb. All you did that time was expand on the fact you have no further arguments due to the increased post length yet minimal new info.
So in response to my question "How about you disprove Winkels system Herb - with logical reasoning or by demonstration" and by not disproving with logical reasoning (like cmon, even the noobs here know the -2.7% and roulette wheel has no memory crap) I assume you will do it by demonstration. Great, I cant wait...
Oh and dark side?! I think not, more like the Herb side. Also If you disbelieve that roulette is profitable and truly believe in your obvious -2.7% crap - why on earth are you on this forum? Are you that board? Wheres your system?
From winkel:
When you have played several hundreds of permanences you will have a feeling when to bet these crossings 2vs>2 or 2vs3.
They mostly appear when we have a permanence with very slow "0"s.
I've noticed this, about how they appear when the "0"s all start going slow and the numbers start moving from the "1" column to the "2" and "3" column. If you keep an open mind, you will see many of the things winkel has said you would see.
Will this win over time? I can't say......yet. I can say that after your first entry of numbers and you jump back to "20" with the Track2 software, you have a bet in about seven or eight spins and you jump back again in ten to fifteen spins almost every time. It is slow for the first 30 or so but then it goes very quickly.
I'm not going to sell off my Microsoft stock to bet on this thing, but I will give it it's due process!
Sam
I wish there was a safeguard in place at the time of the crossings for the repeaters. I keep getting the repeaters and it's beginning to hurt.
Proof
You mean you're wanting a 0 and the 1s start repeating? That happens to me, too. Still, every time but once when I've gone in the hole, I came out ahead. And the once was only 20u lost. I've been through 800 numbers and it does the same thing every time. Almost a carbon copy (a what??) of the run before.
Sam
hey winkel....your system is good cause it rely on pure logic but my biggest problem is to play this on my crowded table's casino....when there's sometime 3-4 minutes between each bet...how would you manage this ??
You could track two tables at same tme
I got the Idea for new clinical play rules :)
Because we are always talking about safe bet or risky bet...
And if there is too much numbers of one group..
What about to make a rule that we don't bet first crossing and then usualy lines cross back the other way and then bet for crossing to come.. there is only one problem :) - it is not for sure that lines will do a bow shape and cross back :) so it might need some more tracking
here is example what I mean:
[table=,]
0,1,Bet
20,12
19,13
18,14
17,15
16,16,No bet
15,17
15,16
15,15,Bet here
[/table]
that is just example, but do you get the Idea?
@all
your problem has its origin in all the other systems around or the systems you were looking for so far.
a system that would win every bet
a system that recovers a lost bet by using a progression
a system that gives a win always you close the game
G.U.T is totally different.
as I said, if you would check any single crossing-combination and run it over millions of spins it ends up -2,7%.
Why does it win then?????
because not all crossing will be in the loosing streak some are there others are in their winning streak.
as long as we bet <18 numbers we will beat the house edge.
so we just have to win 1 bet more than we loose and we are positive.
look at the example from boo_ray:
He definitely is in a run where the first bet loses and the second bet wins.
That is temporary. Next week it will be the other way around.
Then it will loose both the first and the second bet.
Again: any decision you make, can be right or can be wrong. But if you play all appearing crossings: you will win more than you loose. But therefore you have to bet all crossings.
Again: This is the beginners rule.
After a while you will see when there is a risky bet or a nice bet.
Again my example for that:
if a crossing comes from
13 9
12 10
11 11 think about betting on "11", because the chance you have to bet on had three hits in a row
if a crossing comes from
11 15
11 14
11 13
11 12
11 11 bet on the "11" because they hadn´t a hit since several spins
if a crossing appears this way
16 16
15 17
15 16
15 15
14 16
14 15
14 14
bet every twin, because there is a rythm in it.
(I took just two relations for a clear example. if you look at the testings you will see such streaks of winnings and of loosings and they will all follow my description.)
Somestimes you will loose on these "sure bets" as well, that´s the game. But LongTerm this is the reason it wins.
1. There is always a crossing
2. The crossing has to cross
3. And it does it more often than it refuses to do
(remember me talking about "crossing" not a single combination that builds a crossing)
br
winkel
[highlight]If I'm wrong, winkel will point it out to both of us.[/highlight]
You are absolutely right TCS.
br
winkel
All
I posted something but took it down as soon as I saw winkel's explanation.
May I offer a tiny piece of advice: Use Track2 and learn to add the columns.
You will find many, many crossings if you just look for them.
I also agree with something else he said. They cross more often than not. I think there is a logical reason for this, but I don't want to get flamed so I'll think on it more.
Sam
Quote from: kompressor on October 14, 2008, 10:42:48 AM
hey winkel....your system is good cause it rely on pure logic but my biggest problem is to play this on my crowded table's casino....when there's sometime 3-4 minutes between each bet...how would you manage this ??
Hi kompressor,
I wrote before:
for training take your time. When you reach a state that a crossing might appear
e.g. 17-15
then write down the 17 numbers you would have to bet and go to the table (having 16 units in the pocket or your hand)
next number appears.
check your note
dismiss the number that hit and you know there have to be now
16-16
bet the remaining 16 numbers
If the number that appeared is not on your note: the crossing has not appeared. it is that simple.
nest number appears you can check on your note win/loss and collect your win (fortunately)
This 17-15 can only change to
17-15 just wait another spin
16-16 you bet
17-14 go back to your seat there are at least two or three spins for next crossing.
For beginners it is recommended to play with a partner who watches your units and notes on your seat.
br
winkel
Winkel,
How can / should we play?
Trail. Nr. 0x 1x 1>
or
Trail. Nr. 0x 1x 2x 3x 3>
Use one or can both method's be played?
If I got you right:
for beginners:
0; 1; >1; 2; >2; this is what you see in the tests (unfortunately >2 is there named "3")
for advanced:
0; 1; >1; 2; >2; 3; >3; 4; >4 etc.
br
winkel
ref: my "rythm" example
see todays Table 3 Wiesbaden The opposite rythm:
1 25 36 1 0 0 0
2 3 35 2 0 0 0
3 4 34 3 0 0 0
4 19 33 4 0 0 0
5 22 32 5 0 0 0
6 8 31 6 0 0 0
7 13 30 7 0 0 0
8 2 29 8 0 0 0
9 21 28 9 0 0 0
10 3 28 8 1 1 0
11 31 27 9 1 1 0
12 96 27 9 1 1 0
13 17 26 10 1 1 0
14 24 0 25 11 1 1 0
15 31 0 25 10 2 2 0
16 32 0 24 11 2 2 0
17 15 0 23 12 2 2 0
18 12 0 22 13 2 2 0
19 36 0 21 14 2 2 0
20 0 0 20 15 2 2 0
21 35 0 19 16 2 2 0
22 15 0 19 15 3 3 0
23 30 0 18 16 3 3 0
24 11 0 17 17 3 3 0 [highlight]This crossing much to early[/highlight]
25 24 rr -17 17 16 4 4 0
26 8 rr -34 17 15 5 5 0
27 8 -34 17 15 5 4 1 [highlight]it loses 2 times[/highlight]
28 28 -34 16 16 5 4 1
29 25 rr -50 16 15 6 5 1 [highlight]between spin 25 and 37 we await 5-6 "0"[/highlight]
30 22 rr -66 16 14 7 6 1 [highlight]we are two ahead: 3-4 remain[/highlight]
31 26 -66 15 15 7 6 1 [highlight]this is the second[/highlight]
32 24 rr -81 15 15 7 5 2 [highlight]the third crossing and we bet of 2-3 "0" which have to appear in the next 5 spins[/highlight]
33 32 rr -96 15 14 8 6 2 [highlight]of course the run away from us!!!![/highlight]
34 19 -96 15 13 9 7 2
35 6 -96 14 14 9 7 2
36 3 rr -110 14 14 9 6 3
37 2 rr -124 14 13 10 7 3 [highlight]here we have the exact 2/3 deviation[/highlight]
38 9 -124 13 14 10 7 3
39 36 -124 13 13 11 8 3
40 3 rr -137 13 13 11 8 3 after 4 double losses would you bet for a fifth? It comes due to the rythm!!!!
41 22 rr -150 13 13 11 7 4
42 33 rr -127 12 14 11 7 4 now starts the bet 0vs>1 and we are back to normal.
43 27 rr -103 11 15 11 7 4
44 19 rr -114 11 15 11 6 5
45 27 rr -125 11 14 12 7 5
46 7 -125 10 15 12 7 5
47 16 -125 9 16 12 7 5
48 13 -125 9 15 13 8 5
49 12 rr -134 9 14 14 9 5
50 5 rr -107 8 15 14 9 5
as you can see:
"0" have been fast (too fast)
then they turned to slow which made us loose on "0"-bets
then it came back to normal
look at such things when you are betting!
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 14, 2008, 02:12:57 PM
If I got you right:
for beginners:
0; 1; >1; 2; >2; this is what you see in the tests (unfortunately >2 is there named "3")
for advanced:
0; 1; >1; 2; >2; 3; >3; 4; >4 etc.
br
winkel
Lets start with beginners. I want to start at basics. 0; 1; >1; 2; >2;
0: numbers that have not hit?
1: numbers that have hit once?
>1: numbers that have hit twice?
2: numbers that have hit twice, than isn't this column the same as the >1
>2: numbers that have hit more than twice
Do I have that correct? If not pleas explain what to do to get it right. And I don't understand the difference between >1 and 2.
Thank you.
Quote from: JHM on October 14, 2008, 06:25:59 PM
>1: numbers that have hit twice?
2: numbers that have hit twice, than isn't this column the same as the >1
>2: numbers that have hit more than twice
Do I have that correct? If not pleas explain what to do to get it right. And I don't understand the difference between >1 and 2.
Thank you.
>1 numbers qualify have appeared 2 3 4 5 6 7 or more times
2 numbers qualify have appeared exactly twice
>2 numbers qualify have appeared 3 4 5 6 7 or more times
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 14, 2008, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: JHM on October 14, 2008, 06:25:59 PM
>1: numbers that have hit twice?
2: numbers that have hit twice, than isn't this column the same as the >1
>2: numbers that have hit more than twice
Do I have that correct? If not pleas explain what to do to get it right. And I don't understand the difference between >1 and 2.
Thank you.
>1 numbers qualify have appeared 2 3 4 5 6 7 or more times
2 numbers qualify have appeared exactly twice
>2 numbers qualify have appeared 3 4 5 6 7 or more times
br
winkel
>1
numbers qualify have appeared 2 3 4 5 6 7 or more times
2 numbers qualify have appeared
exactly twice>1
numbers qualify have appeared 2 3 4
5 6 7 or more times>2
numbers qualify have appeared 3 4
5 6 7 or more timesI don't get the two situations above. I'll make 2 examples, maybe you can tell me what I see wrong.
Trail Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
1 10 36 1 0 0 0
2 25 35 2 0 0 0
3 10 35 1 1 1 0 Now Nr. 10 has hit 2 times, than it qualifies for 1> it has hit more than once. And 2 because it have hit twice?
4 13 34 2 1 1 0
5 25 34 2 2 2 0 Same situation as above?
6 10 34 2 3 1 1 Now nr 10 has hit more than once, 3 times so in the 1> column we add 1 and it has hit more than twice so we reduce 1 in the 2 column and add 1 in the 2>?
I know this must be wrong. But maybe you can show me in a example how I should see this.
Thank you for the time and effort for helping understand.
I noticed when a number misses (when you have a bet of 2 or three numbers, they are neighbors of the number. Why not incorporate Gamlet's Fire (of betting the neighbors) into it?
Just a thought
@JHM
I refer to this
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/bjb007%27s-common-sense-way/crossings-checker-vr2-5/msg24597/#msg24597 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/bjb007%27s-common-sense-way/crossings-checker-vr2-5/msg24597/#msg24597)
imagine you have counted through all 37 possible numbers you will get a row like this:
2 4 3 2 4 5 3 6 7 5 3 3 2 2 2 1 3 5 1 2 3 3 4 2 5 3 6 2 3 7 1 2 1 1 2 3 2
now count all which are >1 (result 32)
now count all which are >2 (result 21)
and you will see the difference
a number that has appeared 3 times hasn´t appeared (exactly) twice anymore
but it still has appeared more than once (>1) and more than twice (>2)
br
winkel
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on October 14, 2008, 07:07:28 PM
I noticed when a number misses (when you have a bet of 2 or three numbers, they are neighbors of the number. Why not incorporate Gamlet's Fire (of betting the neighbors) into it?
Just a thought
sorry, can´t answer this, because I don´t know "Gamlet´s Fire"
br
winkel
Quoteand the tests of anyone who tries to study this strategy is just one more positiv result to the 10 000 000 spins test I did.
Winkel, Not only are your testing methods questionable at best, but I don't believe for one minute that you have ever tested 10,000,000 spins. ;D
If you look at "view at statistics" you will find
[highlight]The above listed statistic origins of 8776078 full rotations of 37 spins.
That means 324 714 886 consecutive single spins.[/highlight]
These statistics are result of my testings. If i say ten million I just do some understatement.
[highlight]your testing methods questionable at best[/highlight]
The method is open to everyone in testing area and this topic. what´s wrong with it? Any ideas?
You are disqualifying yourself with every fart you lost your control on.
Gamlet's Fire Method (See Gamlet, Full Systems) Comprises of a frequently hit number 2 to 3 times say over a five spin period and selecting the wheel-order neighbors on each side. With 0 and 1, the latter having two or three numbers played for seven spins, 2 wheel-order neighbors on each side (since I noticed frequent hits of the neighbors) could be played.
Quote from: winkel on October 14, 2008, 07:13:09 PM
@JHM
I refer to this
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/bjb007%27s-common-sense-way/crossings-checker-vr2-5/msg24597/#msg24597 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/bjb007%27s-common-sense-way/crossings-checker-vr2-5/msg24597/#msg24597)
imagine you have counted through all 37 possible numbers you will get a row like this:
2 4 3 2 4 5 3 6 7 5 3 3 2 2 2 1 3 5 1 2 3 3 4 2 5 3 6 2 3 7 1 2 1 1 2 3 2
now count all which are >1 (result 32)
now count all which are >2 (result 21)
and you will see the difference
a number that has appeared 3 times hasn´t appeared (exactly) twice anymore
but it still has appeared more than once (>1) and more than twice (>2)
br
winkel
Thank you Winkel. I understand, than the example I stated below is right isn't it?
Trail Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
1 10 36 1 0 0 0
2 25 35 2 0 0 0
3 10 35 1 1 1 0 Now Nr. 10 has hit 2 times, than it qualifies for 1> it has hit more than once. And 2 because it have hit twice?
4 13 34 2 1 1 0
5 25 34 2 2 2 0 Same situation as above?
6 10 34 2 3 1 1 Now nr 10 has hit more than once, 3 times so in the 1> column we add 1 and it has hit more than twice so we reduce 1 in the 2 column and add 1 in the 2>?
Jur
The way you're playing it is the way I'm playing it, so if you're wrong I want to see the correct answer. I think you're right. A number can be exact:
Prosecutor: "How many times did you beat your wife last month?"
"Two"
"She says four."
"Well I did beat her two times, did I not?"
"OK, dipstick, EXACTLY AND PRECISELY how many times did you beat your wife last month?"
"Four."
"She's so ugly, you should have beat her >four."
"Then I'd be a < a man!!"
Sam
Just to clarify,
> This means greater than.
< This means less than.
> 2 This means greater than two
< 2 This means less than two
Currently, I've noticed that there is a kind of an intentional confusion on the part of Winkel when it comes to the above meanings. I guess it's value is determined once it's observed as either winning or losing.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 15, 2008, 02:43:17 PM
Jur
The way you're playing it is the way I'm playing it, so if you're wrong I want to see the correct answer. I think you're right. A number can be exact:
Prosecutor: "How many times did you beat your wife last month?"
"Two"
"She says four."
"Well I did beat her two times, did I not?"
"OK, dipstick, EXACTLY AND PRECISELY how many times did you beat your wife last month?"
"Four."
"She's so ugly, you should have beat her >four."
"Then I'd be a < a man!!"
Sam
Haha Sam, you crazy roulettecat. One day they will come for you [smiley=3/abduct.gif]
Good to see we think the same. I hope Winkel can confirm.
Quote from: JHM on October 15, 2008, 02:18:26 PM
Trail Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
1 10 36 1 0 0 0
2 25 35 2 0 0 0
3 10 35 1 1 1 0 Now Nr. 10 has hit 2 times, than it qualifies for 1> it has hit more than once. And 2 because it have hit twice?
4 13 34 2 1 1 0
5 25 34 2 2 2 0 Same situation as above?
6 10 34 2 3 1 1 Now nr 10 has hit more than once, 3 times [highlight]so in the 1> column we add 1 and it has hit more than twice so we reduce 1 in the 2 column and add 1 in the 2>? [/highlight]
No!
Because the 10 is already in the column >1 since it hit twice
It is only new in column >2
br
winkel
Quote from: Herb on October 15, 2008, 03:06:01 PM
Currently, I've noticed that there is a kind of an intentional confusion on the part of Winkel when it comes to the above meanings. I guess it's value is determined once it's observed as either winning or losing.
Please tell me where you did notice this, that I can correct that.
definitely I didn´t use it for claiming a win or winning situation. Because I don´t play with this relation or a column named "<".
If you don´t have arguments please don´t start with grapewines
Winkel,
Please check my play or see nolinks://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9741/guttest1go5.jpg (nolinks://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9741/guttest1go5.jpg). I tested on 50 spins from Sam. Did I do something wrong, or did I hit a losing streak?
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg387.imageshack.us%2Fimg387%2F9741%2Fguttest1go5.jpg&hash=e7f4e746542631dcfc1172e826ec60e7f10a30fc)
pls check
# perm bet total 0 1 >1 2 >2
1 26 36 1 0 0 0
2 26 36 0 1 1 0
3 21 35 1 1 1 0
4 28 34 2 1 1 0
5 29 33 3 1 1 0
6 27 32 4 1 1 0
7 27 32 3 2 2 0
8 5 31 4 2 2 0
9 23 30 5 2 2 0
10 12 29 6 2 2 0
11 13 28 7 2 2 0
12 22 27 8 2 2 0
13 29 27 7 3 3 0
14 0 0 26 8 3 3 0
15 20 0 25 9 3 3 0
16 33 0 24 10 3 3 0
17 0 0 24 9 4 4 0
18 14 0 23 10 4 4 0
19 8 0 22 11 4 4 0
20 5 0 22 10 5 5 0
21 2 0 21 11 5 5 0
22 23 0 21 10 6 6 0
23 17 0 20 11 6 6 0
24 21 0 20 10 7 7 0
25 9 0 19 11 7 7 0
26 32 0 18 12 7 7 0
27 24 0 17 13 7 7 0
28 25 0 16 14 7 7 0
29 26 0 16 14 7 6 1
30 1 0 15 15 7 6 1
31 0 rr -15 15 15 7 5 2
32 28 rr -30 15 14 8 6 2
33 12 -30 15 13 9 7 2
34 8 -30 15 12 10 8 2
35 29 -30 15 12 10 7 3
36 20 -30 15 11 11 8 3
37 0 nr -41 15 11 11 8 3
38 10 nr -52 14 12 11 8 3
39 28 nr -64 14 12 11 7 4
40 15 -64 13 13 11 7 4
41 10 rr -77 13 12 12 8 4
42 6 rr -54 12 13 12 8 4
43 1 nr -31 12 12 13 9 4
44 5 rr -43 12 12 13 8 5
45 12 rr -55 12 12 13 7 6
46 28 rr -67 12 12 13 7 6
47 11 -67 11 13 13 7 6
48 18 nr -80 10 14 13 7 6
49 7 nr -94 9 15 13 7 6
50 8 fr -65 9 15 13 6 7
Jur
We both got it wrong!
Sam
Quote from: winkel on October 15, 2008, 05:26:01 PM
pls check
# perm bet total 0 1 >1 2 >2
1 26 36 1 0 0 0
2 26 36 0 1 1 0
3 21 35 1 1 1 0
4 28 34 2 1 1 0
5 29 33 3 1 1 0
6 27 32 4 1 1 0
7 27 32 3 2 2 0
8 5 31 4 2 2 0
9 23 30 5 2 2 0
10 12 29 6 2 2 0
11 13 28 7 2 2 0
12 22 27 8 2 2 0
13 29 27 7 3 3 0
14 0 0 26 8 3 3 0
15 20 0 25 9 3 3 0
16 33 0 24 10 3 3 0
17 0 0 24 9 4 4 0
18 14 0 23 10 4 4 0
19 8 0 22 11 4 4 0
20 5 0 22 10 5 5 0
21 2 0 21 11 5 5 0
22 23 0 21 10 6 6 0
23 17 0 20 11 6 6 0
24 21 0 20 10 7 7 0
25 9 0 19 11 7 7 0
26 32 0 18 12 7 7 0
27 24 0 17 13 7 7 0
28 25 0 16 14 7 7 0
29 26 0 16 14 7 6 1
30 1 0 15 15 7 6 1
31 0 rr -15 15 15 7 5 2
32 28 rr -30 15 14 8 6 2
33 12 -30 15 13 9 7 2
34 8 -30 15 12 10 8 2
35 29 -30 15 12 10 7 3
36 20 -30 15 11 11 8 3
37 0 nr -41 15 11 11 8 3
38 10 nr -52 14 12 11 8 3
39 28 nr -64 14 12 11 7 4
40 15 -64 13 13 11 7 4
41 10 rr -77 13 12 12 8 4
42 6 rr -54 12 13 12 8 4
43 1 nr -31 12 12 13 9 4
44 5 rr -43 12 12 13 8 5
45 12 rr -55 12 12 13 7 6
46 28 rr -67 12 12 13 7 6
47 11 -67 11 13 13 7 6
48 18 nr -80 10 14 13 7 6
49 7 nr -94 9 15 13 7 6
50 8 fr -65 9 15 13 6 7
I see. My counting was right from spin 1 to 37 went good. Than I reduced one where I had to add one. My focus went off. I see you made a lot of loosing bets to. Do you think this was a rare losing streak? Lot of losers and no winners?
Good news: I understand the counting
Bad news: I still don't control the betting situations.
Question on the betting: in spin 31 you say -15 and than spin 32 to 36 you say -30. Why -30 do you double up once after a loss? Please explain.
I'm getting closer everytime.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 15, 2008, 05:27:57 PM
Jur
We both got it wrong!
Sam
Yes, but no we know how do do it right. Don't we Sam. Better I counted good the first 37. Than I reduced by one where I had to add one, bad concentration I think.
Sam offtopic question. I'm working with your spins (WJL). You mark 1-100. 1 is the oldest and 100 the newest spin right? If not I did the count from fresh to old. That would not be correct.
Jur
There are usually 200 or more spins per trot. The oldest number is 1 of page 1 and the newest is 100 of page 2. Those 200 numbers are consecutive. Sometimes on the right side of page two are a few extras just to make sure I got to 5,000.
I double checked these numbers as I wrote them down. I'm sure there is an error somewhere, but very few. Extremely few.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 15, 2008, 06:23:13 PM
Jur
There are usually 200 or more spins per trot. The oldest number is 1 of page 1 and the newest is 100 of page 2. Those 200 numbers are consecutive. Sometimes on the right side of page two are a few extras just to make sure I got to 5,000.
I double checked these numbers as I wrote them down. I'm sure there is an error somewhere, but very few. Extremely few.
Sam
Good to hear Sam. I tested WJL 8-4-8 P1 spin 1-50 and 51-100. 2 sessions.
Quote from: JHM on October 15, 2008, 05:47:23 PM
I see you made a lot of loosing bets to. Do you think this was a rare losing streak? Lot of losers and no winners?
Good news: I understand the counting
Bad news: I still don't control the betting situations.
Question on the betting: in spin 31 you say -15 and than spin 32 to 36 you say -30. Why -30 do you double up once after a loss? Please explain.
I'm getting closer everytime.
I always said: There are loosing streaks, thats the game. Look at the testings.
If you miss a crossing or you make a bet when you shouldn´t: don´t mind. The mix will build a positiv result.
There is only the "total" listed not the LW of the single bet.
br
winkel
Well, I've got 5,000 spins and I'm getting pretty salty at using a ten key, so I'll just keep on testing for a while.
Ben Franklin said, "Experience is a dear school, but a fool will learn no other."
I guess I am one of the fools who simply must learn from personal experience.
You can bet your sweet bippy I'll wager Monopoly money!
Sam
I'm getting grip on the system Winkel. did another session ended +3. Now we're getting somewhere.
What to do in this situation?
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
13 25 29 4 4 3 1 Bet 4 hit once
14 24 28 5 4 3 1 Lose -4
15 4 27 6 4 3 1 Lose -4 continue bet 0vs1 or switch 1vs1>?
16 29 26 7 4 3 1 Lose -4
17 11 25 8 4 3 1 Lose -4
18 16 25 7 5 3 1 If continued 0vs1, lose -3 and win 35. When switched to 1vs1> no win.
Winkel, in your fix to JHM, at the N. 47 why not play the intersection 7-6 and the game only to hit 49?
Thanks
Alex00
Hey Winkel.
Something you ought to know about. Dealer changes. I spoken to TCS about it with his Chicco/Flash Strategy.
There is a danger when the dealer changes, as long as the dealer is the same, and you have a dealer signature, then GUT is fine. Now, at Dublinbet, it's the same dealer, but get over to the Riverbelle wheel (where I play for real money), they change dealers when there are a lot of wins. Often as every three minutes. That hurts it.
Hey Proof, ;)
I've played at Canbet which like Riverbelle is a Microgaming wheel & I've only ever seen then change every 30 mins regular as clockwork....
How often have your experienced them changing every 3 mins ????
Cheers.....[smiley=beer.gif]
Usually at night, about 10pm and 6am CDT U.S. and especially on Fridays and Sat**days I see the dealer changes that frequently. They cost dearly as the "hot numbers" chosen by GUT cool off fast.
WoW considering how much time I was on line looking at their numbers (& I have played at the times you stated) I cannot believe I haven't seen it happen.... :-[
Ok, thanks for the heads up....[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
To you think they changed to their "best" dealer or just pushed the next dealer in line up ???
I was going to ask about so called dealer sinatue for this method I think Winkel earl;ier on said it should not be affected
If you believe in dealer signature (lots don't) it may affect it What is your take on it Winkel
Regards Rodney
Well, what happens is you make a bet, say on a progression or have recently had hits on a number. Riverbelle wheel dealers change right after you confirm the bet. You don't see it coming. Just recently, I was up 30 on two fifty cent number bets and they changed dealers (it seemed) until I stopped betting, then the original dealer returns. Funny.
Like i said Proof all I have seen is two dealers for about a six hour shift normally 28 mins past the hour they swap....
& like U said they swap after your bets are confirmed......
But it's always the same time give or take a minute or two....
TESTING...
9.8.8 24u
Think I'll quit and use real money.
Sam
Say what you will guys. GUT, Chicco's Leon 2 Pro succeed on Dealer Signature, (hence the high number of spins before a bet is recommended). I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw this time and again, that numbers tend not to fall when a dealer change takes place.
(Riverbelle wheel operators know changing dealers affects betting patterns.) I think highly of both Chicco Flash and GUT. The two methods just don't see the dealers.
Very interesting session tonight in spite of the possum
Video tomorrow at testing.
Sam
Quote from: alex00 on October 15, 2008, 07:46:10 PM
Winkel, in your fix to JHM, at the N. 47 why not play the intersection 7-6 and the game only to hit 49?
Thanks
Alex00
Because 2vs2> is no bet opportunity. See this post from Winkel for the triggers. nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/testing-g-u-t/msg24649/#msg24649 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/testing-g-u-t/msg24649/#msg24649)
Quote from: JHM on October 15, 2008, 06:49:14 PM
I'm getting grip on the system Winkel. did another session ended +3. Now we're getting somewhere.
What to do in this situation?
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
13 25 29 4 4 3 1 Bet 4 hit once
14 24 28 5 4 3 1 Lose -4
15 4 27 6 4 3 1 Lose -4 continue bet 0vs1 or switch 1vs1>?
16 29 26 7 4 3 1 Lose -4
17 11 25 8 4 3 1 Lose -4
18 16 25 7 5 3 1 If continued 0vs1, lose -3 and win 35. When switched to 1vs1> no win.
Hi JHM,
I normally start to bet when 19"0" have crossed with 18">1"
remember: the "2" have to rise up to 10 (thats the binomial hill) betting them to fall during that rise is tricky.
I do nearly always start with betting a "0" vs anyone
except:
"0" are very slow and are sataying at 18 or 17. then you have a good chance to hit a 1vs>1(2) or even a 2vs>2(3)
But again:
any decision you make is okay as long as there is a crossing
If you are not sure: Just don´t bet
It is not like in a progression: you bet martingale 128 pieces you loose and stopp because 256 ist to much money. and youre chance appears. That hurts.
GUT is just the decision: bet 15: lose 15 / win 21. If don´t lose/win here, you will lose/win somewhen later.
This whole game is a mix of good and bad decisions with the guarantee to win in the end.
br
winkel
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on October 15, 2008, 08:36:07 PM
Hey Winkel.
Something you ought to know about. Dealer changes. I spoken to TCS about it with his Chicco/Flash Strategy.
There is a danger when the dealer changes, as long as the dealer is the same, and you have a dealer signature, then GUT is fine. Now, at Dublinbet, it's the same dealer, but get over to the Riverbelle wheel (where I play for real money), they change dealers when there are a lot of wins. Often as every three minutes. That hurts it.
Hi Proofreader,
my test have been on Live-Tables as well. We just didn´t even look at a "dealers" change
What might happen:
a dealer is spinning repeaters: we don´t get crossings 0vs1 very late a crossing 1vs(>)2
a dealer is spinning unhit: we get a crossing on 0vs1 and win, we don´t get a crossing on 1vs(any higher)
dealers change just produces another of the possible 37(50)spin-rows.
(as long as there is no device on the wheel to land a number in a special box)
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 16, 2008, 04:58:45 AM
Quote from: JHM on October 15, 2008, 06:49:14 PM
I'm getting grip on the system Winkel. did another session ended +3. Now we're getting somewhere.
What to do in this situation?
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
13 25 29 4 4 3 1 Bet 4 hit once
14 24 28 5 4 3 1 Lose -4
15 4 27 6 4 3 1 Lose -4 continue bet 0vs1 or switch 1vs1>?
16 29 26 7 4 3 1 Lose -4
17 11 25 8 4 3 1 Lose -4
18 16 25 7 5 3 1 If continued 0vs1, lose -3 and win 35. When switched to 1vs1> no win.
Hi JHM,
I normally start to bet when 19"0" have crossed with 18">1"
remember: the "2" have to rise up to 10 (thats the binomial hill) betting them to fall during that rise is tricky.
I do nearly always start with betting a "0" vs anyone
except:
"0" are very slow and are sataying at 18 or 17. then you have a good chance to hit a 1vs>1(2) or even a 2vs>2(3)
But again:
any decision you make is okay as long as there is a crossing
If you are not sure: Just don´t bet
It is not like in a progression: you bet martingale 128 pieces you loose and stopp because 256 ist to much money. and youre chance appears. That hurts.
GUT is just the decision: bet 15: lose 15 / win 21. If don´t lose/win here, you will lose/win somewhen later.
This whole game is a mix of good and bad decisions with the guarantee to win in the end.
br
winkel
Understood. So it doesn't matter for how long you keep betting a sitiuation, after the crossing appears you lose 2-3 times you can still continue to bet that crossing?
And maybe a stupid question :). But you say ''This whole game is a mix of good and bad decisions with the guarantee to win in the end.''. Even when you have made more bad than good descissions?
QuoteEven when you have made more bad than good descissions?
;D ;D ;D ;D
thats not possible, because to bet the crossing is always a good decision.
;) :D :P >:D
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 16, 2008, 04:58:45 AM
Quote from: JHM on October 15, 2008, 06:49:14 PM
I'm getting grip on the system Winkel. did another session ended +3. Now we're getting somewhere.
What to do in this situation?
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
13 25 29 4 4 3 1 Bet 4 hit once
14 24 28 5 4 3 1 Lose -4
15 4 27 6 4 3 1 Lose -4 continue bet 0vs1 or switch 1vs1>?
16 29 26 7 4 3 1 Lose -4
17 11 25 8 4 3 1 Lose -4
18 16 25 7 5 3 1 If continued 0vs1, lose -3 and win 35. When switched to 1vs1> no win.
Hi JHM,
I normally start to bet when 19"0" have crossed with 18">1"
remember: the "2" have to rise up to 10 (thats the binomial hill) betting them to fall during that rise is tricky.
I do nearly always start with betting a "0" vs anyone
except:
"0" are very slow and are sataying at 18 or 17. then you have a good chance to hit a 1vs>1(2) or even a 2vs>2(3)
But again:
any decision you make is okay as long as there is a crossing
If you are not sure: Just don´t bet
It is not like in a progression: you bet martingale 128 pieces you loose and stopp because 256 ist to much money. and youre chance appears. That hurts.
GUT is just the decision: bet 15: lose 15 / win 21. If don´t lose/win here, you will lose/win somewhen later.
This whole game is a mix of good and bad decisions with the guarantee to win in the end.
br
winkel
Winkel,
I haven't had a bet situation on 0vs1 (you prefer to start first bets at that crossing). I have this situation, what would you do yourself?
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
31 26 19 9 9 6 2 Bet the 1vs1>?
And another situation I would like to hear your thought
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
46 29 12 14 11 4 6 Bet 12 unhit (situation ovs1> 12-11)
47 30 11 15 11 4 6 Win + 24. (new situation 0vs1> 11-11, bet again or stop after win?)
Quote from: winkel on October 16, 2008, 12:04:53 PM
QuoteEven when you have made more bad than good descissions?
;D ;D ;D ;D
thats not possible, because to bet the crossing is always a good decision.
;) :D :P >:D
br
winkel
I see ;D. But is there a point that you should say ''quit''. lets say a crossing appears, you bet 15 unhit and you loose 4 bets in a row?
Quote from: JHM on October 16, 2008, 12:10:18 PM
Winkel,
I haven't had a bet situation on 0vs1 (you prefer to start first bets at that crossing). I have this situation, what would you do yourself?
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
31 26 19 9 9 6 2 Bet the 1vs1>?
And another situation I would like to hear your thought
Spin Nr. 0 1 1> 2 2>
46 29 12 14 11 4 6 Bet 12 unhit (situation ovs1> 12-11)
47 30 11 15 11 4 6 Win + 24. (new situation 0vs1> 11-11, bet again or stop after win?)
first situation:
I would bet this:
- first of all the risk is low -9+-10 ant he crossing is gone if the "0" change from slow to fast
- it seems that this is a sequence where all new numbers ("0") fill up the "1" and another "1" (or even the same number) straight goes to "2": That´s a nice rythm
- but if we have the 2 numbers on ">2" having hit 5 or more times (one or both) I jump back or collect a new spin-row.
second situation:
we should have binomial:
13-14 "0" at spin 37 and about 9 "0" at spin 50. so this is always a good bet.
if the "0" have been very slow so far I would bet again, if there was a waving in the hits I would stop or look at the rythm:
e.g.
40 14-14-10-5-5 =0
41 13-15-10-5-5 =0
42 13-14-10-5-5 =1
43 12-15-10-5-5 =0
44 12-15-10-4-6 =2
45 12-15-10-4-6 =1
46 12-14-11-4-6 =0
I would presume a "2" to appear
had the row been 0 0 1 2 1 0 ...
I would presume a 0 again!
without a rythm see above
br
winkel
Quote from: JHM on October 16, 2008, 12:11:36 PM
I see ;D. But is there a point that you should say ''quit''. lets say a crossing appears, you bet 15 unhit and you loose 4 bets in a row?
The point where I definitely stop playing:
I get the feeling that I can´t read what´s going on.
And every decision made is wrong.
I would jump back and restart but betting very carefully. If missbetting continues: Let´s see tommorrows results.
br
winkel
Quote15 4 27 6 4 3 1 Lose -4 continue bet 0vs1 or switch 1vs1>?
I missed this one:
I cannot see a crossing 0vs1 (27-6), wouldn´t even bet 1vs>1 at that stage
br
winkel
All.....
I just had a situation where the "0" was 17 and slept seven spins in a row. Meanwhile 1 v 2 was heading for a crossing. Then I got a hit on the 0 column and had this:
16 12 6 3
Here I could have added columns 1 and 3 and got 15 and had a 0 vs (1+3) crossing. Since all sums are rising and 0 is falling, they could have crossed. They didn't. I had an 11 v 10 (1 v >1) on the next spin and won. The point is this: The 0s totally went to sleep and the others were moving. Where did I read that? Oh, yes, winkel said that would happen.
Such coincidence that sooooo much of what he says, I see!
I jacked the video around so no movie! You'll just have to trust me.
winkel, would you have bet this: 0 vs (1+3)?
Sam
Jur
Before a math wizard pounces on you, you might want to put the <> signs in front of your number. >2 not 2>
If you had numbers close together, we would mistake what you meant.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 16, 2008, 01:42:15 PM
winkel, would you have bet this: 0 vs (1+3)?
Sam
I never ever even tried such a betting ;D
I wouldn´t recommend this kind of "producing" crossings
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 16, 2008, 01:41:54 PM
Quote15 4 27 6 4 3 1 Lose -4 continue bet 0vs1 or switch 1vs1>?
I missed this one:
I cannot see a crossing 0vs1 (27-6), wouldn´t even bet 1vs>1 at that stage
br
winkel
Sorry for the confusion, from a old post. Never mind not relevant anymore.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 16, 2008, 01:45:11 PM
Jur
Before a math wizard pounces on you, you might want to put the <> signs in front of your number. >2 not 2>
If you had numbers close together, we would mistake what you meant.
Sam
Sam see 5 posts up in the quote. The numbers where there the quotewizzard made them dissapear
Hi Sam,
I'm pretty sure you shoudn't just add columns 1 and 3
together, you'd have to include column 2 to get a proper
"greater than" sum.
I think that's what winkel meant by not recommending
producing crossings this way. I don't think making up
combinations should be a part of the system.
Winkel or anyone who knows:
I just played 3 sessions and ended -120 but I think I may have been doing something wrong.
When I got to a point where say I have (0 vs. 1) 16-15 and I bet and lost, then I bet again and lost again.. I STOPPED! (-32)
-Then I started to look at the 0 vs. 1> or other combinations. During this time, I noticed that 0 vs. 1 came back to a possible crossing of say 13-12 or 13-13. Do I go back and "attempt" to make another 2 bets on 0 vs. 1 or do I ignore it and let it go b/c I have already tried that during this session and lost back to back attempts previously?
Thanks
Hi madupz,
go to the testing Zone and check the the listed sessions.
You will see this is part of the game. Ther is no guarantee for winning just in long Term you will win mor often than you lose.
br
winkel
PS
or give the numbers you have played and I give you my results of the bettings and you can compare
pls use the GUT-Tracker of droidman.
put in the numbers and it will come to you.
for your questions:
Quote(why are you betting 16 5x?) (isn't it only suppossed to be 2x?)
This is not the betting, this is the total
Quote(what does nr mean?)
the spread-sheet I use is also to use for another bet-selection I found.
n means I´m betting on "1"
nr means I´m betting on "1" on the row before (otherwise I would bet on another row)
this little r means just "rolling", doesn´t mena anything to GUT
rr = betting on 0
nr = betting on "1"
fr = betting on "2"
Quote(how is the running total now 9?)
total so far -16
bet on "1" and win - bet was 11 numbers - +36-11=25 - -16+25=+9
next betting on "0"vs">1" 13units loss +9-13=-4
next betting on "1"vs""2" 11 units and win -11+36=+25 - -4+25=21
@all who enter new to this topic
please read through my explanations.
It is all explained through this topic or through "Testing G.U.T"
I can´t explain everything again and again and again. this will make this topic endless and boring.
I beg your pardon
br
winkel
droidman
I just read what you said to bj: So if you
were thinking of adding a button for say 1+3, don't!
Now look at what I asked winkel: winkel, would you have bet this: 0 vs (1+3)? I merely asked a question. I see no harm in that.
No where did I ask bj to create a 1 + 3 crossing. But you know--if i had--and he wanted to do it, who are you to tell him not to?
Perhaps I'm confused on one or two things and you could possibly help me out. Or winkel, of course.
Is there such a crossing as this: 0 v (1 + 2)? This could/could not be 0 vs >1. If you had a hit in the 3 column, it could be too many for a crossing.
I distinctly remember reading about the + crossing and winkel said "The sums are always rising." What are the sums?
Sam
This may be where I originally got the idea. Wildcard published this:
19- (11 + 7) = 1 = betting opportunity ........ Now we are at school :) On this example the sum is fine because 19 numbers that did not appear minus the sum of the numbers that appeared once and those that appeared more than once is one (1).
If we tabled Wildcard's lesson, it would look like this:
[table=,]
0,1,2
19,11,7
[/table]
So, is this a 0 vs >1 bet?
Look at this:
[table=,]
0,1,2,3
19,11,7,2
[/table]
Now we have no 0 v>1 as we have 19 20. But do we have a 0 vs (1 + 2)? Is there such a bet? Because I've been betting just this since I started testing and I wins!
Sam
Question:
Just to clarify,
is >1 (2+3) or (2+3+>3?)
From the first page of the thread:
Quote from: winkel on August 20, 2008, 11:56:25 AM
one example
0x 1x >1x
19 13 5 bet 19numbers--Am I wrong in thinking winkel added 1x and >1x>? Would that not be 0 vs (1+>1)? 0 vs (1+2) perhaps?
Do I sound annoyed?
Sam
Quote from: madupz4 on October 16, 2008, 10:22:24 PM
Question:
Just to clarify,
is >1 (2+3) or (2+3+>3?)
Mad,
Lord, who am I to answer??!! >1 is any number beginning with and including (2) and going to Pluto! 2 and 3 are 5 so 5 is >1 (2+3+>3?) ?? never saw that one..
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 16, 2008, 10:39:08 PM
Quote from: madupz4 on October 16, 2008, 10:22:24 PM
Question:
Just to clarify,
is >1 (2+3) or (2+3+>3?)
Mad,
Lord, who am I to answer??!! >1 is any number beginning with and including (2) and going to Pluto! 2 and 3 are 5 so 5 is >1 (2+3+>3?) ?? never saw that one..
Sam
Right, BUT if I want to bet (0 vs. >1) do we add up 2+3+>3=? (3 columns) or just 2+>3=?
Big confusion in the family ;D
we have mainly these countings
0 1 2 3 4 5 ......
we have crossings between them: 0vs1 or 0vs2 or 0vs3
or we have a crossing between one and the rest
0vs>1 or 1vs>3 or 0vs>5
but we don´t have crossings
0vs(2+5) this is no natural line the binomial distribution would show
the >x are the sum of all numbers right of the point of view
at anytime all numbers have hit once. then they all have hit >0
at anytime all numbers have hit 3times then they all havehit >2
these are the "sums"
Quote0 1 2
19 11 7
So, is this a 0 vs >1 bet?
Look at this:
0 1 2 3
19 11 7 2
Hi TCS
you created a situation that is impossible:
bet is 0vs>0
your example shows 39 numbers (19+11+7+2) we just have 37.
You will never find a betting I´ve done which crosses 1vs2+4 or any like that
I didn´t even describe it.
br
winkel
Quote from: madupz4 on October 16, 2008, 11:42:27 PM
Right, BUT if I want to bet (0 vs. >1) do we add up 2+3+>3=? (3 columns) or just 2+>3=?
You can´t add a sum to their single components
let me give an example:
you have 2 brothers and three sisters which are 5 (and you)
Do you have 5 or 10 other children in you family?
br
winkel
winkel
I forgot to decrease the seven. Here is what I meant to do:
Look at this:
[table=,]
0,1,2,3
19,11,5,2
[/table]
The above what what I meant to write. Now, let's take it from there. Using Wildcard's explanation where he did use (x+Y), and your word "sums" I have been using this formula: 0 vs (1+2) and 1 vs (2+3).
How refreshing to know that I have spent hours doing this wrong.
The above is why I ask so many questions which may seem to have obvious answers.
Does anyone see the obvious conundrum? I've been doing it wrong and winning! If I were doing it right, would I have lost??
Guess I'll do some Chicco/murph for a while. I think I understand that one!
Sam
QuoteI've been doing it wrong and winning! If I were doing it right, would I have lost??
no, because you wouldn´t have placed a bet!
br
winkel
Everyone who knows stochastics will know what this means:
Yesterdays result of +1423 is more than Sigma+3.
The first level to beat roulette therefore is proofed.
br
winkel
LOL ;D ;D ;D
Winkel,
Something crossed my mind. Maybe it doesn't make sense. But I'll ask anyway.
When you have a situation like:
Spin Nr 0 1 1> 2 2>
40 10 9 9 19 5 3
Now we have bet 0vs1. Can we decide to bet 1 and 0 (9+9=18 nr's).
1. we don´t bet more than 17 numbers
2. 18 numbers against which crossing? we don´t bet 18-19 (we would bet crossings like 19-18)
3. we bet against the rest on the right side of our point of view, we don´t bet the sum of any numbers left of our point of view.
br
winkel
Oke I'll change the situation. See below:
Spin Nr 0 1 1> 2 2>
40 10 8 8 19 5 3
Now we have a situation where we have 0vs1 (8-8). Usually we would bet 8 unhit numbers. Can we decide to play the 8 unhit numbers and the 8 numbers that have hit once? So we play both lines in the crossing?
I would bet 0vs1
There is no crossing with 2
There is no crossing with >2
a crossing with 2+>2 is never bet nor described by me. If you wanna bet such a "crossing?" do it on your own risk
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 17, 2008, 03:43:00 PM
I would bet 0vs1
There is no crossing with 2
There is no crossing with >2
a crossing with 2+>2 is never bet nor described by me. If you wanna bet such a "crossing?" do it on your own risk
br
winkel
Winkel,
We misunderstand eachother. I don't mean to play crossing 2. I mean you have 0vs1. We choose and play 0. Can't we play 0 and 1? Or should we only play 0?
If you play the "1"s and you win you will have
8 7 20 6
there is nothing that will cross at this point
If you play the "0"s and it wins you will have
7 9 19 5
so 0and1 have crossed
br
winkel
Winkel,
I have another question. Do I already drive you crazy ;D?
You suggest for a starter play 0 1 1> 2 2> .
I like to use the tracker droidman has written it shows 0 1 2 3 3>.
Bets
0vs1
0vs2
0vs3
1vs2
1vs3
Can this be used to?
Winkel,
Your the man. Tested live @ DB.
-17
-16, +35
-10
-10
-9, +35
-8, +35
Total +35.
What I like the most is the human interaction. We place the bets. If we lose -10, -10, -10. We can decide either to stop either to say bet 20. Because we know the crossing has to come. Starting to like the G.U.T. more and more.
Jur
The Track 3 shows the > columns.
Sam
winkel never wrote anything about 0 vs (1 + 2).
That was a mistake I made from the original post and have been carrying around with me since.
Let's forget any (x+y) equations.
Sam
hey winkel
0 1 +1 2 +2
--------------------
12 13 12 10 2
it is better the 0vs1 cause I can bet 3 times ??
unfortunatly I played the 1 vs +1
0 1 +1 2 +2
--------------------
12 13 12 10 2
12 13 12 9 3
12 13 12 8 4
and loose twice
now should I swith to 0vs+1 or wait for new trigger ??
thanks
Quote from: kompressor on October 19, 2008, 01:27:39 AM
hey winkel
0 1 +1 2 +2
--------------------
12 13 12 10 2
it is better the 0vs1 cause I can bet 3 times ??
unfortunatly I played the 1 vs +1
0 1 +1 2 +2
--------------------
12 13 12 10 2
12 13 12 9 3
12 13 12 8 4
and loose twice
now should I swith to 0vs+1 or wait for new trigger ??
thanks
Hi kompressor,
1. 0vs1 is no Trigger(12-13). The triggers are 0vs>1 or 1vs>1
2. There´s is no answer for a question like "is it better ...", because I always said: Your decision may be wrong or right.
3. What may give a slight advantage is to know:
- what is the development in the last spins
- in which spin are we
or as I said: watch what is going on.
I could give a hint if you give further informations what happened before.
br
winkel
I forgot one more thing I always say:
If you are in doubt:
Just don´t bet
or
jump back
or
create a new spin-row
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 19, 2008, 06:42:07 AM
I forgot one more thing I always say:
If you are in doubt:
Just don´t bet
or
jump back
or
create a new spin-row
br
winkel
Winkel,
Lets say you choose yo bet
1vs1>
The last 5 spins were all 1>. What would you bet?
This Sunday morning, before the c**k croweth thrice, I tried the G.U.T.
I doubled my bankroll. Yeppers. Doubled.
Hit every stinkin' crossing to a profit. Didn't hit every bet but did not miss three in a row. Did miss one I should have had when I bet 28 instead of 29. My point: Could I be this lucky? On Sunday? Playin' the Devil's game before Church? Naaaaaaa
Screen shots of 1 v 2 and 3 vs >3.
[attachimg=#1]
[attachimg=#2]
Samster
Quote from: JHM on October 19, 2008, 07:35:00 AM
Quote from: winkel on October 19, 2008, 06:42:07 AM
I forgot one more thing I always say:
If you are in doubt:
Just don´t bet
or
jump back
or
create a new spin-row
br
winkel
Winkel,
Lets say you choose yo bet
1vs1>
The last 5 spins were all 1>. What would you bet?
look at my answers to kompressor.
What shall I say?
You have to decide! Any doubt, just don´bet.
br
winkel
@ ALL,
Please make sure you read all of the content of this thread. There are over 50 pages. Many will be repitition and maybe silly posts. But there is an immense amount of very useful data here.
I am playing a variation of Winkels GUT now which is delivering very nice results on RNG. All you need to do is to read all of this thread and practice. Everyone that does seems to play it in a slightly different way but win.....
Please Read all of the posts
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 19, 2008, 09:25:23 AM
This Sunday morning, before the c**k croweth thrice, I tried the G.U.T.
I doubled my bankroll. Yeppers. Doubled.
Hit every stinkin' crossing to a profit. Didn't hit every bet but did not miss three in a row. Did miss one I should have had when I bet 28 instead of 29. My point: Could I be this lucky? On Sunday? Playin' the Devil's game before Church? Naaaaaaa
Screen shots of 1 v 2 and 3 vs >3.
[attachimg=#1]
[attachimg=#2]
Samster
Sam,
I think you had a lot of luck. Winkel says don't play any crossings until the 0 has reached 19 or lower (18, 17, etc.). And you should never bet more that 17 on a crossing.
Simply:
Wait until 0 passes 19 or lower. Than bet crosses.
Don't bet more than 17 units (crossings higher than 17).
Hope this helps.
Way to go, Sam! 8)
Guess I'm going to have to look into the GUT.
I've only doubled my BR once in two years with my methods.
Ron.
hoper
You must understand my bankroll was only $60 when I started. I went to around $119 before I quit. This was before the first "jump back". I quit then and went back to bed.
Sam
I have checked the first 50 spins for my main table from last night.
Would have been 3 betting opportunities with GUT with a win on the first spin for all 3.
In comparison, I was down about 100 units with my bets.
Ron.
Quote from: JHM on October 19, 2008, 01:00:43 PM
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 19, 2008, 09:25:23 AM
This Sunday morning, before the c**k croweth thrice, I tried the G.U.T.
I doubled my bankroll. Yeppers. Doubled.
Hit every stinkin' crossing to a profit. Didn't hit every bet but did not miss three in a row. Did miss one I should have had when I bet 28 instead of 29. My point: Could I be this lucky? On Sunday? Playin' the Devil's game before Church? Naaaaaaa
Screen shots of 1 v 2 and 3 vs >3.
[attachimg=#1]
[attachimg=#2]
Samster
Sam,
I think you had a lot of luck. Winkel says don't play any crossings until the 0 has reached 19 or lower (18, 17, etc.). And you should never bet more that 17 on a crossing.
Simply:
Wait until 0 passes 19 or lower. Than bet crosses.
Don't bet more than 17 units (crossings higher than 17).
Hope this helps.
you are going to love this mate,flat bets.I know you love them,so do I[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Quote from: tucktuckster on October 19, 2008, 11:34:55 AM
@ ALL,
Please make sure you read all of the content of this thread. There are over 50 pages. Many will be repitition and maybe silly posts. But there is an immense amount of very useful data here.
I am playing a variation of Winkels GUT now which is delivering very nice results on RNG. All you need to do is to read all of this thread and practice. Everyone that does seems to play it in a slightly different way but win.....
Please Read all of the posts
Hi Tuckster,
what really took me by surprise is it works with RNG.I never believe in RNG,never play them as well,always have the impression that they are cheating or they are rigged.
Jur
When I said I bet "all crossings" that was misleading. What I should have said was that I bet all crossings as instructed by winkel.
I never bet the 19/18.
Check out my post today in "Testing".
Sam
Hi friends and enemies,
I have a big problem. I know it is working, but I can´t explain it properly.
Why? 2 reasons: 1. my english is not good enough. 2. I´m ill and my brains are influenced by meds.
sometimes I write things meaning the right, but expressing it wrong. Sorry for that especially for upsetting KFS.
I try a very last time an explanation.
e.g. we play a crossing 10-10
as KFS proofed this will end up with a result of -2,7%. That´s true and okay.
I said in one of my early posts: this has to be otherwise I wouldn´t be able to win.
How can this be put together?
look:
we start playing this crossing and play it 20 times. By luck we win 10 bets. 5 bets are won by the second 10 and 5 are won by the other 17 numbers not involved in 10-10.
let´s put a math on it:
20 bets 10 units = 200 units bet
10 wins 36 units = 360 units return
total: +160 units
we should have 10/37 of 20 wins to be in the laws of statistics: that would be 27% of 20 or 5-6 bets.
we are now ahead 4-5 bets to the average!!!!!!!
conclusion: our bet is bound to fullfill the limit of -2,7%, therefore our bet has to lose in the upcoming crossings "more often" than it is allowed (due to the average)
or: we are always in situations where [highlight]we win more often than we lose[/highlight] or [highlight]lose more often than we win[/highlight].
but we don´t play only this crossing 10-10
we are also playing 17-17 (or any other)
to lose: 17-17 + 10-10 have to be in a downswing
to be equal: 17-17 + 10-10 win and lose alternating
to win: 17-17 +10-10 win both
Now you need very much imagination:
Because we play [highlight]all possible crossings[/highlight] in the short run the chance to hit losing streaks of all bet crossings is rare.
experiences:
as we play we notice 10-10 in a upswing wining and wining. we don´t mind betting it
as we play we notice 17-17 in a downswing losing. we don´t play it till we notice a turnaround.
These up- and downswings are permanently in action, because they have to be:
Imagine we bet 10 only once and lose: it is statistically definetly behind it´s average, isn´t it. (or vice-versa)
every win or every loss is dragging it away from the limit -2,7%, where it has to be.
To be aware of these wavings, the rule of -2,7% has to be fulfilled in the long run. Otherwise we could be sure of an endless winning- or losing-streak, which both would be easy to see and to bet or to be bet opposite.
Now this constrction works in a single crossing as well:
10-10 at spin 15 is waving up
10-10 at spin 30 is waving down
10-10 on 0vs1 is waving down
10-10 on 2vs3 is waving up
if we put all 10-10 together despite where it appeared and despite on which groups it appears, if we have enough trials the will add up at -2,7%. but on their way to lose we can see them losing and stop betting them.
If we lose here we will win there. In the short run we win more than we lose, despite all-in-all it ends up at -2,7%. A contradiction but it works.
I didn´t give all facts but I hope you can see what´s the point if you use your imagination.
br
winkel
Hi Winkel,
Are you really ill?Please no jokes about this,I am concern about your well being
Dear winkel
Brother, I have your back! I'm growing more and more proficient on your G.U.T. daily!!
Watch my videos! I've moved from $60 to 205.5 playing .50 per number. No progression/FLAT BET!!
Take care of your self.
Dare we ask your afflicition? Shall we pray for you?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 11:54:21 AM
Dear winkel
Brother, I have your back! I'm growing more and more proficient on your G.U.T. daily!!
Watch my videos! I've moved from $60 to 205.5 playing .50 per number. No progression/FLAT BET!!
Take care of your self.
Dare we ask your afflicition? Shall we pray for you?
Sam
Sam
I would like to be able to duplicate your success:
2 questions: 1) Are you playing ALL possible crossings or are you using "judgement" to bet on some crossings and not others based on what is going on and looking at the trends?
2) Would you mind listing each and every one of the crossings you are playing on the track3 software? What are the crossings you are NOT playing? (for example, I think you wrote previously that 0vs.>1 is not one of the crossings you play)
After I receive this information from you, I will start my own testing to see how it compares to your results.
Thanks,
E.M.
mad
I will help you in any way I can. I do NOT use judgment of any sort. I have pumped a little bankroll from $60 to $205.5 using .50 bets.
I bet:
0 v 1
0 v >1.......even though I don't agree with it. It wins.
1 v 2
1 v >2.....ditto above
2 v 3
2 v >3...ditto above
3 v >3
The ONLY crossing I do not play is 0 v >0 as this can only be 19/18.
Please go to the testing area and view my ten-minute videos. You will see the cursor identify my crossing. Please note that I have hit several numbers when only three chips were down and once on the 7 all alone!! Straight up single number!!
The jump back is vital. Do not think you have to wait for numbers to be added. When you jump you may have a 2 v 3 right off the bat and they hit! Do not be afraid to bet the small numbers. I bet two crossings at once many times. Some crossings are only 3 to 6 numbers and they hit!
I am doing my best NOT to tweak his system, but to play it by the rules. Yet, what works for me works for me!!
Going to double my bet from .50 to 1.00. WoooHooo Big Spender!!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 20, 2008, 10:31:52 PM
Jur
When I said I bet "all crossings" that was misleading. What I should have said was that I bet all crossings as instructed by winkel.
I never bet the 19/18.
Check out my post today in "Testing".
Sam
Sam,
Good to read, and even better that you are winning.
@ Winkel:
You have made numerous contributions to roulette and to VLS. I'll be praying for your swift recovery. Who knows? GUT 2.0? --PR
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 12:24:54 PM
mad
I will help you in any way I can. I do NOT use judgment of any sort. I have pumped a little bankroll from $60 to $205.5 using .50 bets.
I bet:
0 v 1
0 v >1.......even though I don't agree with it. It wins.
1 v 2
1 v >2.....ditto above
2 v 3
2 v >3...ditto above
3 v >3
The ONLY crossing I do not play is 0 v >0 as this can only be 19/18.
Please go to the testing area and view my ten-minute videos. You will see the cursor identify my crossing. Please note that I have hit several numbers when only three chips were down and once on the 7 all alone!! Straight up single number!!
The jump back is vital. Do not think you have to wait for numbers to be added. When you jump you may have a 2 v 3 right off the bat and they hit! Do not be afraid to bet the small numbers. I bet two crossings at once many times. Some crossings are only 3 to 6 numbers and they hit!
I am doing my best NOT to tweak his system, but to play it by the rules. Yet, what works for me works for me!!
Going to double my bet from .50 to 1.00. WoooHooo Big Spender!!
Sam
TCS,
Thanks for the info.
One more follow up question with regards to the jump back: What are the rules you follow for the jump back? At what spin number do you jump back or what is it based on?
Also, to be clear: When you say "jump back" you are referring to entering "-1" on the track3 software to jump back 18 numbers correct? You are not starting over from scratch at 37 correct?
Once i'm clear, I will begin testing on RNG!
Thanks,
E.M.
E.M.
On Track3 you jump back until you show spin 20 and begin from there. I jump when I feel there are no crossings within the next few spins. There are no hard and fast rules, but I put JUMP on my videos when I jump.
These videos are tutorials and pretty good ones, at that.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 02:59:12 PM
E.M.
On Track3 you jump back until you show spin 20 and begin from there. I jump when I feel there are no crossings within the next few spins. There are no hard and fast rules, but I put JUMP on my videos when I jump.
These videos are tutorials and pretty good ones, at that.
Sam
Generally at what spin do you see your self jumping back, spin 40, 50, 60?
Also, many times I see 0vs1 at 16-15, I bet and lose, then sometimes rather than changing to 15-15, it changes to 16-14. My question is, do you wait for this to turn back to another trigger of say 15-14 and make one more bet? (16+15=31)
mad
I seem to be doing quite well on betting the low numbers like 7 v 6........3 v >3
I don't jump back until I see there are none of these crossings coming. Beware of getting too many of >3 as there is no bet for them and you will see them hitting.
I bet a crossing as soon as it forms. Today at about spin 23 or 24 I had a 2 v 3 and won it.
I went up over 50u today in my second session.
Watch the video! It's a tutorial!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 05:06:09 PM
mad
I seem to be doing quite well on betting the low numbers like 7 v 6........3 v >3
I don't jump back until I see there are none of these crossings coming. Beware of getting too many of >3 as there is no bet for them and you will see them hitting.
I bet a crossing as soon as it forms. Today at about spin 23 or 24 I had a 2 v 3 and won it.
I went up over 50u today in my second session.
Watch the video! It's a tutorial!
Sam
Thanks for the info, very informative. I will no begin testing on RNG.
This is my result til today. It is a sigma of +3,43
Perhaps anyone could argue, why this is possible after that amount of spins and bets without being a winning system:
total 1680
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1224606038.png&hash=a68ba3b07d28f3652b01dc938a99199c86503d36)
winkel
I heard you say "sigma one" a while back. I don't know what a "sigma" is.
Sam
Hi TCS
please check wikipedia, I can´t explain it in English.
Perhaps our stochastic genius Herb can
br
winkel
Winkel,
How often should I come back to a particular trigger after it has lost 2x already (e.g. 0vs.1, 15-14, losses then goes to 15-13, then goes to 14-13 you bet and lose again now it goes to 14-12.... later on down the road 0vs.1 might look like 11-10, do you continue to bet on "0" despite you already had 2 back to back losses on 0 previously? or do you move on and ignore the 0vs.1 even if there is another trigger later?
Quote from: madupz4 on October 22, 2008, 12:56:59 AM
Winkel,
How often should I come back to a particular trigger after it has lost 2x already (e.g. 0vs.1, 15-14, losses then goes to 15-13, then goes to 14-13 you bet and lose again now it goes to 14-12.... later on down the road 0vs.1 might look like 11-10, do you continue to bet on "0" despite you already had 2 back to back losses on 0 previously? or do you move on and ignore the 0vs.1 even if there is another trigger later?
If you see you´re in a losing streak, just jump back
If you´re in doubt, just don´t bet
br
winkel
just like to thankyou to winkel for giving me the knowlage. i rearly enjoyed maths in school and wish i went to university to carry it on and maybe i could of 4rt of something as good as this (ye right) ;D ;D
hi everyone new to the G.U.T. holy gral. would anyone please give me a hand here is this session correct and is where i bet correct, also if anyone would please finish the session off to see where the next bet would be.....
bit late to this thread as i can see everyone has the hang ov it but i will get there soon.
NUMBER SPUN 0 1 >1
31 36 1
10 35 2
10 35 1 1
0 34 2 1
30 33 3 1
26 32 4 1
8 31 5 1
1 30 6 1
1 30 5 2
22 29 6 2
36 28 7 2
33 27 8 2
32 26 9 2
19 25 10 2
12 24 11 2
0 24 10 3
5 23 11 3
32 23 10 4
32 23 9 5
16 22 10 5
13 21 11 5
16 21 10 6
26 21 9 7
23 20 10 7
1 20 9 8 bet
1 20 8 9 bet won +28
1
30
7
5
16
35
31
4
17
25
5
9
31
25
0
34
6
2
29
35
32
19
24
30
7
2
6
10
10
21
13
17
18
6
if someone could show me where the next win or bet would be it would be great thanks
mattjono
Hi matt
pls use droidman´s tracker and the crossings will jump into your eyes
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 22, 2008, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: madupz4 on October 22, 2008, 12:56:59 AM
Winkel,
How often should I come back to a particular trigger after it has lost 2x already (e.g. 0vs.1, 15-14, losses then goes to 15-13, then goes to 14-13 you bet and lose again now it goes to 14-12.... later on down the road 0vs.1 might look like 11-10, do you continue to bet on "0" despite you already had 2 back to back losses on 0 previously? or do you move on and ignore the 0vs.1 even if there is another trigger later?
If you see you´re in a losing streak, just jump back
If you´re in doubt, just don´t bet
br
winkel
Thats the thing, I really don't know when I"m "in doubt," i'm just betting every trigger I see hoping to recoup my losses. Are you saying if I had a few losses that jumping back will produce better results? If that is the case, I don't understand that philosophy because I thought it wouldn't matter, I thought eventually they all have to cross, so how would jumping back help the situation?
mattjono
Please take a few minutes to learn the syntax for aligned columns.
[escape]
[table=,]
Number spun,0,1,>1
31,36,1
[/table]
[/escape]
That is what you type. To skip a column, enter an extra comma. Please learn to use this or you will get little response to your questions. People don't have the time to mentally straighten your columns.
Here's how it looks:
[table=,]
Number spun,0,1,>1
31,36,1
[/table]
Below is how it looks with a column skipped. I simply put two commas after the 36.
[table=,]
Number spun,0,1,>1
31,36,,1
[/table]
Sam
why there a ''+0'' column in the v3 tracker...i saw no bet opportunity other than 19vs18
@madupz
just give me numbers where you have lost and I´ll show you what jumping can do.
pls all spins min. 50 numbers
br
winkel
kompressor,
Please download the new v4 software, I've removed the >0 column.
Quote from: winkel on October 22, 2008, 02:43:53 PM
@madupz
just give me numbers where you have lost and I´ll show you what jumping can do.
pls all spins min. 50 numbers
br
winkel
Winkel,
Here is 50 numbers, didn't jump once, but I bet 2x on 0vs.1 when the trigger was present and lost and never came back to that, then I also bet 2x on the trigger 1vs. 2 and loss on both. Finished this session -58. How am I suppossed to know when to jump while i'm playing when there are triggers to be bet on the board?
16
23
7
36
33
1
17
14
23
3
9
31
9
35
8
25
28
11
19
26
17
29
20
16
35
6
11
28
20
34
31
15
6
27
25
27
6
13
26
31
24
16
11
15
17
4
5
13
13
23
20 26 0 0 / 0 0 19 16 2 2 0
21 17 0 1 / 0 0 19 15 3 3 0
22 29 0 0 / 0 0 18 16 3 3 0
23 20 0 0 / 0 0 17 17 3 3 0
24 16 0 1 / 0 0 17 16 4 4 0
25 35 0 0 / 0 0 17 15 5 5 0
26 6 0 0 / 0 0 16 16 5 5 0
27 11 rr 16 1 V -16 -16 16 15 6 6 0
28 28 rr 16 1 V -16 -32 16 14 7 7 0
29 20 0 1 / 0 -32 16 13 8 8 0
30 34 0 0 / 0 -32 15 14 8 8 0
31 31 rr 15 1 V -15 -47 15 13 9 9 0
32 15 0 0 / 0 -47 14 14 9 9 0
33 6 rr 14 1 V -14 -61 14 13 10 10 0
34 27 rr 14 0 G 22 -39 13 14 10 10 0
35 25 0 1 / 0 -39 13 13 11 11 0
36 27 rr 13 1 V -13 -52 13 12 12 12 0
37 6 rr 13 2 V -13 -65 13 12 12 11 1
38 13 nr 12 0 V -12 -77 12 13 12 11 1
39 26 nr 13 1 G 23 -54 12 12 13 12 1
40 31 rr 12 2 V -12 -66 12 12 13 11 2
41 24 rr 12 0 G 24 -42 11 13 13 11 2
42 16 rr 11 2 V -11 -53 11 13 13 10 3
43 11 nr 13 2 V -13 -66 11 13 13 9 4
44 15 nr 13 1 G 23 -43 11 12 14 10 4
45 17 0 2 / 0 -43 11 12 14 9 5
46 4 0 0 / 0 -43 10 13 14 9 5
47 5 rr 10 0 G 26 -17 9 14 14 9 5
48 13 nr 14 1 G 22 5 9 13 15 10 5
49 13 0 0 / 0 5 9 13 15 9 6
50 23 rr 9 2 V -9 -4 9 13 15 8 7
this is played all crossings: total -4
If you had watched you had seen that 19 in spin 20 is much to early. 0 is high in front. I wouldn´t have bet the 16.
But if you do it despite the risk:
second loss at spin 31 total -47. I had enough of this and had jumped.
if we had jumped as tracker does: 20 spins that means restart at spin 12
1 31 36 1 0 0 0
2 9 Hub 35 2 0 0 0
3 35 34 3 0 0 0
4 8 33 4 0 0 0
5 25 1000 32 5 0 0 0
6 28 31 6 0 0 0
7 11 30 7 0 0 0
8 19 Wert eingeben! 29 8 0 0 0
9 26 28 9 0 0 0
10 17 27 10 0 0 0
11 29 26 11 0 0 0
12 20 25 12 0 0 0
13 16 24 13 0 0 0
14 35 0 1 / 0 0 24 12 1 1 0
15 6 0 0 / 0 0 23 13 1 1 0
16 11 0 1 / 0 0 23 12 2 2 0
17 28 0 1 / 0 0 23 11 3 3 0
18 20 0 1 / 0 0 23 10 4 4 0
19 34 0 0 / 0 0 22 11 4 4 0
20 31 0 1 / 0 0 22 10 5 5 0
21 15 0 0 / 0 0 21 11 5 5 0
22 6 0 0 / 0 0 21 10 6 6 0
23 27 0 0 / 0 0 20 11 6 6 0
24 25 0 1 / 0 0 20 10 7 7 0
25 27 0 0 / 0 0 20 9 8 8 0
26 6 nr 9 2 V -9 -9 20 9 8 7 1
27 13 nr 9 0 V -9 -18 19 10 8 7 1
28 26 0 1 / 0 -18 19 9 9 8 1
29 31 nr 9 2 V -9 -27 19 9 9 7 2
30 24 nr 9 0 V -9 -36 18 10 9 7 2
31 16 nr 10 1 G 26 -10 18 9 10 8 2
32 11 nr 9 2 V -9 -19 18 9 10 7 3
33 15 0 1 / 0 -19 18 8 11 8 3
34 17 nr 8 1 G 28 9 18 7 12 9 3
35 4 0 0 / 0 9 17 8 12 9 3
36 5 0 0 / 0 9 16 9 12 9 3
37 13 nr 9 1 G 27 36 16 8 13 10 3
38 13 0 2 / 0 36 16 8 13 9 4
39 23 0 0 / 0 36 15 9 13 9 4
here at 25 20 "0" is okay, but too many "2"
that´s the reason we lose.
But "0" keep being slow and "1"s keep waving leads us to a plus of 36
-47 + jump +36 =-11 thats fair enough
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 22, 2008, 07:00:08 PM
20 26 0 0 / 0 0 19 16 2 2 0
21 17 0 1 / 0 0 19 15 3 3 0
22 29 0 0 / 0 0 18 16 3 3 0
23 20 0 0 / 0 0 17 17 3 3 0
24 16 0 1 / 0 0 17 16 4 4 0
25 35 0 0 / 0 0 17 15 5 5 0
26 6 0 0 / 0 0 16 16 5 5 0
27 11 rr 16 1 V -16 -16 16 15 6 6 0
28 28 rr 16 1 V -16 -32 16 14 7 7 0
29 20 0 1 / 0 -32 16 13 8 8 0
30 34 0 0 / 0 -32 15 14 8 8 0
31 31 rr 15 1 V -15 -47 15 13 9 9 0
32 15 0 0 / 0 -47 14 14 9 9 0
33 6 rr 14 1 V -14 -61 14 13 10 10 0
34 27 rr 14 0 G 22 -39 13 14 10 10 0
35 25 0 1 / 0 -39 13 13 11 11 0
36 27 rr 13 1 V -13 -52 13 12 12 12 0
37 6 rr 13 2 V -13 -65 13 12 12 11 1
38 13 nr 12 0 V -12 -77 12 13 12 11 1
39 26 nr 13 1 G 23 -54 12 12 13 12 1
40 31 rr 12 2 V -12 -66 12 12 13 11 2
41 24 rr 12 0 G 24 -42 11 13 13 11 2
42 16 rr 11 2 V -11 -53 11 13 13 10 3
43 11 nr 13 2 V -13 -66 11 13 13 9 4
44 15 nr 13 1 G 23 -43 11 12 14 10 4
45 17 0 2 / 0 -43 11 12 14 9 5
46 4 0 0 / 0 -43 10 13 14 9 5
47 5 rr 10 0 G 26 -17 9 14 14 9 5
48 13 nr 14 1 G 22 5 9 13 15 10 5
49 13 0 0 / 0 5 9 13 15 9 6
50 23 rr 9 2 V -9 -4 9 13 15 8 7
this is played all crossings: total -4
If you had watched you had seen that 19 in spin 20 is much to early. 0 is high in front. I wouldn´t have bet the 16.
But if you do it despite the risk:
second loss at spin 31 total -47. I had enough of this and had jumped.
if we had jumped as tracker does: 20 spins that means restart at spin 12
Where do you see a crossing on spin # 46 that gives you a running profit of -43 to -17? 0 =10, 1 =13, 2=14, 3=9, >3=5. Where is the crossing?
Hi mad,
I´m not using the droidman´s tracker my list is a bit different
[highlight]0=10[/highlight] 1=13 >1=14 [highlight]2=9[/highlight]
the crossing 0vs2
br
winkel
Hi winkel.
I have been putting your strategy to the test, so far I am down about 120 units after a few days play though but I am recovering from a nasty streak. Im gonna persevere though..
What are all these new columns you have added? The one with (/ V G) in it and the one to the left of that with (1 0 1 1 2 0 1 2) etc.... It would be a great help to us if you could give the columns a heading at the top to make them more readable....
Thanks
Hi Tok,
this is my own worksheet and the abbreviations are in German.
for posting results some columns are not neccasary and normally i wipe them, but htis time I forgot to do.
read the above columns as:
1 = counting the spins
2 = the spins
3 = abbreviations that say in this spin is bet on ....! these can´t be numbers due to Excel and the logic of some hidden formulas
4 = due to 3 here are the units which are to be placed as bet
5 = this shows how often the actual number has hit before so you can check if there is
6 = /= no bet G=Gewinn/win V=Verlust/loss
7 = result of the spin
8 = running total
9 - 13 = Groups
br
winkel
Now to your results
as you can see there are times where you lose 3to5 sessions in a row. that´s part of the game and you can do nothing about it.
as you can see on the tests:
the touchbet went down to about -270 to recover to +422
the total went down from +715 to +478
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 23, 2008, 05:23:41 AM
Hi mad,
I´m not using the droidman´s tracker my list is a bit different
[highlight]0=10[/highlight] 1=13 >1=14 [highlight]2=9[/highlight]
the crossing 0vs2
br
winkel
Winkel,
According to your rules, I didn't know 0vs.2 was a possible trigger? I thought it was only:
0vs.1
0vs. >1
1vs.2
1vs.>2
2vs.3
2vs.>3 ?
-also, I didn't know that you can come back to a trigger multiple times after it has already passed? For example if you have 0vs.1 trigger at 17-17,,,,,then later on down the road 0vs.1 is 12-12, i didn't know that you can bet on 0vs.1 at (12-12) again? I thought once you bet and it already crossed then it is considered dead?
Thanks for clearing that up.
Yeah the losing streaks are part of the game I know full well being an experienced and winning NL holdem player..
I am becoming used to your system though... we shall see if it turns out good..
I am still skeptical about wether we can overcome the house edge in the long run though but testing your system is fun, if it works out positive then great, if not and I lose to the house edge then who cares as I'm testing with 10c units :D
Also I have spent many hours reading this thread and the ones in the testing zone.... thanks for all the detailed explainations and hard work you have put into this :)
Where are you testing? And are you testing RNG or real?
Hi mad,
we get mixed up with my "rules for beginners" and "higher educated" ways to play.
Take the simple rules:
- if a crossing is there bet
- if in doubt don´t bet
decisions:
is it wise to bet this crossing?
What happende before?
How did my bankroll develop?
Is it a lucky day or a bad day to me?
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on October 23, 2008, 10:54:34 AM
Hi mad,
we get mixed up with my "rules for beginners" and "higher educated" ways to play.
Take the simple rules:
- if a crossing is there bet
- if in doubt don´t bet
decisions:
is it wise to bet this crossing?
What happende before?
How did my bankroll develop?
Is it a lucky day or a bad day to me?
br
winkel
If I bet every crossing like you say, What would be the instances that would make someone be "in doubt" and NOT bet? That is my problem, I am never in doubt b/c i don't know what it means to be "in doubt?" I am simply betting every time I see a crossing with no judgement attatched like a robot.
Quote from: JHM on October 23, 2008, 10:54:08 AM
Where are you testing? And are you testing RNG or real?
real wheel...
QuoteThat is my problem, I am never in doubt b/c I don't know what it means to be "in doubt?"
This is really a problem >:D
let me say it with a joke I read today in the jokes-area: (not word by word)
A good decision is the result of experience. Experiences are the result of bad decisions.
br
winkel
Life is a hard teacher; it gives the test first and the lesson afterward.
I had some money and I met a man with experience. Now he's got the money and I've got the experience!
..or something like that!
Go, winkel!!
coolpaddy to herb in topic "Groupthink"
Quote[highlight]analysis of Winkel's system I have no doubt that you will dazzle us with your expert explaination of why it works.
[/highlight]
this it is:
a strategy can be called "winning" if it wins more than +3 sigma is allowing.
- look at the results of KFS: e.g.
QuoteMath predicts somewhere from 1,097,922 to 1,102,990 hits betting 13 numbers 3,132,068 times.
(That's the mathematical average minus and plus NOT breaking the 3SD barrier.)
but due to the house edge every strategy even if it is sigma +12-winner has to fall into the -2,7%
G.U.T is a winning strategy! But why?
at the test we have these results:
1543 bets placed each bet is average 12 units total is 2007 units
put into math is a [highlight]sigma of +3,79[/highlight]
so how long will it win?
or
when will it be under Zero-Level?
or
when is it bound to reach the -2,7% level
look at this table:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.zufallsforschung.de%2FBilder%2FSigma-Tabelle-12Zahlen.gif&hash=f21538c6f15f49421ef2b324216ce6bf4f80a0c4)
if you are exactly at sigma+3
you will reach most possible units to win at bet placed number 6100 and a win of 1970 units
from there it is bound to loose
after 24300 bets placed your back to Zero-Level
from then on you will go straight to -2,7%
the better the strategy the better is the deviation to sigma+3 (G.U.T after 1543 bets is at 2007 units)
conclusion: a test over some millions of spins or bets is senseless.
a test should take notice of the so called longest possible distance to play (this is 24300 bets)
if a strategy is after that amount in a Plus it is the grail.
This is the difference between math-people, dumb knowledge-repeaters, and intelligent players:
- Intelligent Players know how to prolong this distance
- Intelligent Players can multiply the possible win of $ by changing worth of a single unit (MoneyManagement)
- Intelligent Players know when to stop
- Intelligent Players know that they won´t lose because the will not reach the end of longest playable distance
with 50 spins daily and about 10 bets you had to play 2430 days constantly - that´s about 8 years.
br
winkel
I bet that herb doesn´t know nothing about this higher level of statistics and stochastics and the tools which bend his "rule of -2,7%"
One simple question. When you have a crossing or a crossing is about to happen like in:
18,18 or 18,17 , 16,16 or 15, 16 do you bet on the sleepers or the ones that have already shown?
Another thing:
Some of the numbers that have appeared twice are I think prime candidates for repeatin,g so would another method of play be to bet on these for a limited number of spins?
Hi purple,
use your imagination (always)
if we have a crossing 0vs1 17-16
What has to happen that the two lines cross? either 16 has to become 17 or 17 has to become 16. How can this happen? Which group has to have a hit?
The same to TCS and his question in "Brainstorming"
We have three movings in the counting:
1. The "0"s can´t rise they only fall
2. Every line/group that is a sum like ">1" or ">2" they only rise, they cannot fall.
This designs the main crossing: numbers that hit and numbers that didn´t (0vs>0 or 19-18)
all other crossings are of the same nature
3. We have the single numbers "1" or the twice "2"
these lines go up, but as soon as a number belonging to this group hits again it falls. so these lines are climbing and falling and climbing and falling. But at any point all numbers that hit exactly once have hit twice. and later on all numbers that have hit twice have hit three times. that is an additional option that creates us crossings with the Line of (1.) and (2.) several times.
This is leading to the bet-rule: Bet on the falling line.
and: don´t bet on a climbing line
which put together creates this bet-rule: bet on a line (of 3.) only if it has fallen at least once (otherwise it might be still climbing)
br
winkel
I totally hosed up on my video today which I know just breaks hearts the world over, BUT, I did salvage this little gem. I did better today on the G.U.T. than I ever have.
This was a 3 v >3 crossing. They don't come around often like this, but enough to keep me playing them.
[attachimg=#]
All.........
I feel I need to take a break from the G.U.T. for a while. For one thing, my wife has had a gut full of it. It is one of the slowest systems I've ever played. I have spent about ten hours on the computer in the past two days. No exaggeration.
I'm not giving up on it; I'm shelving it for a time.
Sam
QuoteIt is one of the slowest systems I've ever played.
do you wanna know how to fasten it up?
Here it is:
as all numbers are random you can use your previous numbers to start a new game:
Jump back till you have a crossing 19-18 and restart with a new game.
br
winkel
Winkel a few post above you advice to play 50 spins (1 session per day). Can we play multiple sessions? When I win 20-50 I quit that day. When I make less of loose, sometimes later I would like to start a new session :)
Regarding GUT:
When I play on a live wheel (Riverbelle) the results have been mixed (for me)
But on an RNG Wheel, I am getting an above average return.
I don't know why, but RNG really likes GUT. You would think randomness is randomness but this phenomenom has been going on for a while and I can't explain it.
Any remarks on this would be helpful.
Proof
You could be seeing an anomaly. Next week RNG might not win a dollar.
Sam
I played the gut 10 sessions and came out in good profit in all sessions played, took me many hours to get an idea what it is all about , still i don't fully understand it as yet but i think this gut theory is one of the best ever posted on here , maybe the best ever system posted so far. Winkel has a real winner with g.u.t...
I posted earlier i thought it was a load of rubbish but after testing it quite a lot lately i think i was wrong , the G.U.T is worth playing with real money no question about it.. I am a sinner as i use progresson with the gut which can make super profit faster than flat betting. Thanks to winkel and others who have posted on the G.U.T...
QuoteI am a sinner as I use progresson with the gut which can make super profit faster than flat betting.
You will never recover a heavy loss on a progression
br
winkel
I dunno why but GUT seems to be raping me at live on eurogrand... I just never seem to hit any crossings... at least not often enouh to win. Downswing has hit nearly 400 units..
I am playing very simple rules the same as winkel in his tests..
I just can't seem to escape the reality that when I am betting 15 numbers, for example, I still only have a 15/37 chance of winning no matter what crossing is due to come up. it just feels like the usual gamblers fallacy.
I don't see how other people can be seeing such good results without it just being luck lol.
I am going to persevere though... I will start to track my sessions and post back results here..
What is the best way to track my results for ease of posting results back here for analysis?
please post just the numbers in the Testing G.U.T-topic and I will check them so you can compare to your bettings
br
winkel
Having played GUT enough, I am convinced that it is (for the most part) an effective way to play roulette.
With this in mind, with consistant winnings w/GUT (in several sessions) over RNG that RNG is inferior to the live wheel, (in which I am having inconsistent success).
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on October 28, 2008, 11:44:36 AM
Having played GUT enough, I am convinced that it is (for the most part) an effective way to play roulette.
With this in mind, with consistant winnings w/GUT (in several sessions) over RNG that RNG is inferior to the live wheel, (in which I am having inconsistent success).
Umm.. do you mean that you are finding RNG superior to live?
No, the other way around. I think GUT can beat RNG wheels on a more consistent basis.
I don't know of any system that can beat a live wheel consistently (over the long term.)
RNG is a computer's interpretation of mother nature, and is similar to how GUT selects numbers (binomial distribution) --computers select the same way, so it makes sense.
Now, with mother nature, imagine weatherpeople trying to predict the weather. How many have gotten it even 80% or 70% right.
That's why I think RNG are inferior to live wheels.
The two previous posts just confuses me more.............
Ok..(AH-HA moment) Since an online casino's RNG is set to retrieve numbers by atmospheric noise (as I understand it), it goes through the same (binomial distribution, or its GUT) to "logic out" what a live wheel would do. I think Winkel has the bullseye on RNG for this reason.
Since the live wheel "is exactly like mother nature", having a real ball and wheel, is like trying to predict when it is going to rain each day for 1,000,000 spins or say ten years. (even chances)
Or on those days that it rains (over 10 years), will it be a flood? (2 to 1) or sleet (5 to 1)
What system can accurately (80% or better) predict that?
;)
You should read the two posts very carefully!
Having played GUT enough, I am convinced that it is (for the most part) an effective way to play roulette YOU
Umm.. do you mean that you are finding RNG superior to live? TOK
No, the other way around. I think GUT can beat RNG wheels on a more consistent basis.
I don't know of any system that can beat a live wheel consistently (over the long term.) YOU AGAIN
The man is asking if you find RNG superior and you say no, the other way around. Then you say GUT can beat RNG on a more consistent basis.
So, is GUT better on RNG or live?
Does Sam need an oil change!!??
Sam
No, Sam's motor is just fine.
I'm saying GUT can consume a digital hamburger (RNG wheel) more easily than a real one (live wheel).
Hi folks,
[highlight]First:[/highlight]
There is absolutely no difference between RNG, Touchbet or Live-Wheel.
All kinds are bound to the laws of statistics. What you see here, you will see on the other tomorrow.
[highlight]Second:[/highlight]
some complain about decisions. But you can´t avoid being in a position to make a decision
e.g. out of TCS´s Movie (I hope I got it right but it is only for example)
17 13 7 3 4 4
17 12 8 4 4 4
16 13 8 4 4 4
15 14 8 4 4 4 TCS was complaining that is is not allowed to play the 4-4 2vs3
at this position he lost 2 times his bet with total -8
now a second trigger appears on 0vs1
What to do? Stick on the bet of 2vs3 and letting the trigger 0vs1 go?
scenary 1:
he changes to 0vs1 - next
15 14 8 3 5 5 (that is what happened) -15+-8=-23
next
14 15 8 3 5 5 -15+36-23=-2
scenary 2:
he sticks on the bet 2v3
15 14 8 3 5 5 -12+36=+24 and now bet on trigger 0vs1 because it is still alive
14 15 8 3 5 5 -15+36+24=+45
also possible had been this:
scenary 3: sticking to bet 2vs3
14 15 8 4 4 4 = -12 so far
(13 16 8 4 4 4
12 17 8 4 4 4 )
What he did because of "his new way to bet"
15 14 8 4 4 4 bet 0vs1
15 14 8 3 5 5 loss -15
14 15 8 3 5 5 win -15-15+36=+6
Do you see:
The earlier I start to play 2vs3 the more often I run into Double-Triggers
If I do so, I [highlight]have to[/highlight] make a decision
Betting both trigger-numbers would be a bet of 19 numbers which is not recommended.
br
winkel
First:
There is absolutely no difference between RNG, Touchbet or Live-Wheel.
All kinds are bound to the laws of statistics. What you see here, you will see on the other tomorrow.
Second:
some complain about decisions. But you can´t avoid being in a position to make a decision
That's me on both counts. Let's agree to disagree.
Literally, what you have with an RNG wheel is art imitating life (live wheel). Say what you will, the digital wheel embraces GUT while there is a love/hate relationship with the live wheel. It has happened too many times for it to be a fluke.
Proof
No one is arguing with you, Bro! I would love to clone me arse and do both. As it it I spend ten hours a day at roulette.
I have spent most of my time trying to educate Motion Box on what a video should sound like. Here is what I am going to have to do to accomplish my goal:
1. I make the video with voice.
2. I burn it to a CD
3. I play that CD on my TV
4. With my Web Cam, I will capture the TV screen.
5. I then upload it to Motion Box.
6. I then link it to my thread.
Why?
I must be out of my mind!
Sam
Good refereeing Sam. I want to give Herb a shout-out.
VLS would not be the premier roulette site without you, Sam, and others (like Winkel) who put in the time and patience to test these systems for public use. A BIG thank you to all contributors!
Thanks for that head-patting!! I needed it.
Sam
The last few days I tested the Jump-Back
I always got into Plus even if I started with a loss.
If anyone finds a sequence where jumping back produces increasing losses I would be int4rested of the spins.
Thx
br
winkel
winkel,
You wrote:
Quote
If anyone finds a sequence where jumping back produces increasing losses I would be int4rested of the spins.
Maybe 30 spins jumps are too long, for the clinic test? If not:
The Wiesbaden sessions I show in the file GUTTW.txt, included in the attachement to "Reply #1" in the KFS' GUT-test thread in the Testing Zone:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/kfs%27-gut-test/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/kfs%27-gut-test/)
The sessions are shown in every detail in that file.
Wiesbaden April 1, 2003:
Session #1, Spins 1 - 50, Result: -75
Session #2, Spins 21 - 70, Result: -28, Total -103
Also (same date)
Session #5, Spins 81 - 130, Result: -48
Session #6, Spins 101 - 150, Result: -32, Total -80
Played according to the rules you set and we agreed on.
Regards,
KFS
Something just occured to me. I remember Winkel mentioning Live Wheel Biases [paraphrase]. If RNG is "perfect", what about the live wheel bettors play on. Is it balanced? (I would not put it past casinos for trickery.) Food for thought.
If anyone would share, do you notice any difference playing GUT from one live wheel to another?
winkel
Come on back and play with us!
Sam
The only thing that I find hard to believe are RNGs,despite the fact that some systems have better results with RNG,there is still something in me that tells me not to trust that thing.Many players will tell you RNGs are rigged and design to make you lose.
Anyone knows how does an RNG work?
I don't like RNG's either. I had $20 casino bonus and decided to try Real Money RNG Roulette Gold at Golden Tiger. I thought I would be finished fairly quickly, but to my surprise, the 19 numbers hit twice in a row (1st try) I started over, and it won again. I ended my RNG GUT experience with $56. I was shocked!
I've been trying on Riverbelle Live Wheel to play GUT and it's been a struggle.
I have noticed something while GUTting it out at Riverbelle.
The Virgin Crossing should appear around spin 24 to 26. Today I had an instance where it did not occur until around spin 40! From there on, the whole thing went crazy. No win to spin 50.
It "seems" that there is a "normal" and "abnormal" in the way numbers fall during the first 25 or so spins. I will study this further as I play.
winkel or no winkel, I feel there really is something to this method of play.
I could be wrong; don't mortgage the house to bet on it!
Sam
From the many games i have won playing gut for real money the G.U.T is proving to predict winning numbers with amazing accuracy :).The g.u.t in my opinion is up there at the top with the very best systems. I am winning more than with any other method playing gut.
QuoteI don't like RNG's either. I had $20 casino bonus and decided to try Real Money RNG Roulette Gold at Golden Tiger. I thought I would be finished fairly quickly, but to my surprise, the 19 numbers hit twice in a row (1st try) I started over, and it won again. I ended my RNG GUT experience with $56. I was shocked!
Hi Proof- are you not familiar with the RNG? The script always let you win for a very short period of time and then when you think " this is great" it takes what you previously won and a whole lot more. The script is designed especially for all gamblers to give you a sense of "false hope". It also behaves differently depending on the amount of money you are wagering, be very careful!!! Take what the script gives quickly and then stop or it will sting you bad, a lesson to all.
Winkel I want to ask you something about the GUT? I'm trying to make it more clearly for me.
When you play:
0 vs 1 (you bet on 0's)
1 vs >1 (you bet on 1's)
0 vs >1 (you bet on 0's)
1 vs 2 (bet on 1's)
is that right?
The best moment to play is when we got 18-18, 18-17, 17-17, 17-16 and 16 ?
And when we have to rollback? All the situation.
Hi Prof winkel,
I have tried the system and I am getting negative results.
Can you plz comment on the bets below, especially, spin #44 where we see two 1 in a row
spin # NA A R1 R2 R3 Bet# win Loss
1 1 36 1
2 10 35 2
3 19 34 3
4 2 33 4
5 29 32 5
6 34 31 6
7 18 30 7
8 34 30 6 1
9 1 30 5 2
10 19 30 4 3
11 22 29 5 3
12 13 28 6 3
13 24 27 7 3
14 29 26 7 4
15 33 25 8 4
16 16 24 9 4
17 33 24 8 5
18 35 23 9 5
19 1 23 9 4 1
20 28 22 10 4 1
21 7 21 11 4 1
22 27 20 12 4 1
23 31 19 13 4 1
24 6 18 14 4 1
25 7 17 14 5 1
26 8 16 15 5 1 16
27 10 15 16 5 1 20
28 29 15 15 5 2 15
29 17 14 16 5 2 -15
30 33 14 15 6 2
31 1 14 15 6 1 1
32 21 13 16 6 1 1
33 10 13 15 6 2 1
34 7 13 15 5 3 1
35 23 12 16 5 3 1
36 2 12 15 6 3 1
37 13 12 14 7 3 1
38 8 12 13 8 3 1
39 0 11 14 8 3 1
40 21 11 13 9 3 1
41 31 11 12 10 3 1
42 31 11 12 11 4 1 11
43 27 11 10 12 4 1 11 -11
44 21 11 10 9 6 1 11 -11
45 30 10 11 9 6 1 11
46 30 10 11 10 5 1 11
47 36 9 12 10 5 1 -11
48 9 8 13 10 5 1
49 6 7 14 10 5 1
50 3 6 15 10 5 1
total -17
Hi pighead,
I am actually not writing anymore in this forum.
But for you as a new member just my results with clinical test-rules:
bet uni win tot "0" "1" ">1" "2" ">2"
31 1 fr 4 -4 -4 17 13 7 4 3
32 21 fr 4 -4 -8 16 14 7 4 3
33 10 fr 4 32 24 16 14 7 3 4
34 7 0 0 24 16 14 7 2 5
35 23 0 0 24 15 15 7 2 5
36 2 rr 15 -15 9 15 14 8 3 5
37 13 rr 15 -15 -6 15 13 9 4 5
38 8 0 0 -6 15 12 10 5 5
39 0 fr 5 -5 -11 14 13 10 5 5
40 21 rr 14 -14 -25 14 12 11 6 5
41 31 nr 12 24 -1 14 11 12 7 5
42 31 0 0 -1 14 11 12 6 6
43 27 fr 6 -6 -7 14 10 13 7 6
44 21 rr 14 -14 -21 14 10 13 6 7
45 30 rr 14 22 1 13 11 13 6 7
46 30 rr 13 -13 -12 13 10 14 7 7
47 36 fr 7 -7 -19 12 11 14 7 7
48 9 rr 12 24 5 11 12 14 7 7
49 6 fr 7 -7 -2 11 11 15 8 7
50 3 rr 11 25 23 10 12 15 8 7
Winkel,
Good to see you still read here. Keep your ideas and posting alive. It is appreciated.
I have looked up roulette-forum.de but my German is to bad ;D
Hey Winkel!
Nice to see you around!
I'm glad you haven't abandoned us completely.
I went to the german forum aswell, but had the same problem as JHM...
And THANKS again for you great contributions to this forum. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
Ich hoffe, Sie sind ok Freund ;)
Best Regards
Kingpin
Yes Winkel, glad you check in sometimes. If we can add Addonni and Gamlet back we'll have the whole gang for the holidays.
Anyways, I hope you decide to return on a more permanent basis. You input on the wheel is invaluable.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on November 28, 2008, 08:02:44 PM
Yes Winkel, glad you check in sometimes.
Indeed, you are pretty much appreciatted by many around here Winkel.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on November 28, 2008, 08:02:44 PM
If we can add Addonni and Gamlet back we'll have the whole gang for the holidays.
I just spoke to Addonai at the forum's chat today, he's got a new nick at our board!!! He knows he is much appreciated here and we are pals forever.
It is glad to have the friends around. I wish Gamlet passes by to say hello too :) He will always be a friend.
Victor
Quote from: winkel on November 27, 2008, 05:06:51 PM
Hi pighead,
I am actually not writing anymore in this forum.
But for you as a new member just my results with clinical test-rules:
bet uni win tot "0" "1" ">1" "2" ">2"
31 1 fr 4 -4 -4 17 13 7 4 3
32 21 fr 4 -4 -8 16 14 7 4 3
33 10 fr 4 32 24 16 14 7 3 4
34 7 0 0 24 16 14 7 2 5
35 23 0 0 24 15 15 7 2 5
36 2 rr 15 -15 9 15 14 8 3 5
37 13 rr 15 -15 -6 15 13 9 4 5
38 8 0 0 -6 15 12 10 5 5
39 0 fr 5 -5 -11 14 13 10 5 5
40 21 rr 14 -14 -25 14 12 11 6 5
41 31 nr 12 24 -1 14 11 12 7 5
42 31 0 0 -1 14 11 12 6 6
43 27 fr 6 -6 -7 14 10 13 7 6
44 21 rr 14 -14 -21 14 10 13 6 7
45 30 rr 14 22 1 13 11 13 6 7
46 30 rr 13 -13 -12 13 10 14 7 7
47 36 fr 7 -7 -19 12 11 14 7 7
48 9 rr 12 24 5 11 12 14 7 7
49 6 fr 7 -7 -2 11 11 15 8 7
50 3 rr 11 25 23 10 12 15 8 7
thanks a lot for your reply and making the exception. much appreciate that
Can you please explain a little bit further like spin #31-33 ? and
Spin #37 and 40 where the difference is 2?
difference between Spin # 43 and 44?
difference between #46 and #47?
Spin # 50, why you pick to bet on 11?
pighead
I can answer those questions if winkel does not. Tell me if you want me to; I don't want to offend him further.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 01, 2008, 03:12:54 AM
pighead
I can answer those questions if winkel does not. Tell me if you want me to; I don't want to offend him further.
Sam
hi Sam,
Sure..sounds like I need to study more about the system.
I'll give it a go tomorrow if winkel doesn't tonight!
Sam
I have hard time trying to understand this GUT, anyone have any ideas that will clear things up? :-[
There is like 60 pages of this it all there mate
lokks at first couple pages where Winkel explains the simple part first once you get hang of that you can read fiurther for few more tweaks but the basic system is on the first page of this thread
read kimo li. very easy to understand
Ok i´ll try that guys :)
Quote from: pighead on December 01, 2008, 03:09:13 AM
Quote from: winkel on November 27, 2008, 05:06:51 PM
Hi pighead,
I am actually not writing anymore in this forum.
But for you as a new member just my results with clinical test-rules:
bet uni win tot "0" "1" ">1" "2" ">2"
31 1 fr 4 -4 -4 17 13 7 4 3
32 21 fr 4 -4 -8 16 14 7 4 3
33 10 fr 4 32 24 16 14 7 3 4
34 7 0 0 24 16 14 7 2 5
35 23 0 0 24 15 15 7 2 5
36 2 rr 15 -15 9 15 14 8 3 5
37 13 rr 15 -15 -6 15 13 9 4 5
38 8 0 0 -6 15 12 10 5 5
39 0 fr 5 -5 -11 14 13 10 5 5
40 21 rr 14 -14 -25 14 12 11 6 5
41 31 nr 12 24 -1 14 11 12 7 5
42 31 0 0 -1 14 11 12 6 6
43 27 fr 6 -6 -7 14 10 13 7 6
44 21 rr 14 -14 -21 14 10 13 6 7
45 30 rr 14 22 1 13 11 13 6 7
46 30 rr 13 -13 -12 13 10 14 7 7
47 36 fr 7 -7 -19 12 11 14 7 7
48 9 rr 12 24 5 11 12 14 7 7
49 6 fr 7 -7 -2 11 11 15 8 7
50 3 rr 11 25 23 10 12 15 8 7
thanks a lot for your reply and making the exception. much appreciate that
Can you please explain a little bit further like spin #31-33 ? and
Spin #37 and 40 where the difference is 2?
difference between Spin # 43 and 44?
difference between #46 and #47?
Spin # 50, why you pick to bet on 11?
Please note:
On spin x a number appears. this forms a combiantion.
If this combination is a crossing we bet [highlight]on the next spin[/highlight]
here is a number that forms an new combination. this might be a "no crossing"
e.g.
spin 35 we have 15-15 and bet on that in spin 36
the new number forms a "non-crossing" so we don´t bet in spin 37
It is only a problem of the coding of Excel and how to read and the calculation of win/loss
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on December 03, 2008, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: pighead on December 01, 2008, 03:09:13 AM
Quote from: winkel on November 27, 2008, 05:06:51 PM
Hi pighead,
I am actually not writing anymore in this forum.
But for you as a new member just my results with clinical test-rules:
bet uni win tot "0" "1" ">1" "2" ">2"
31 1 fr 4 -4 -4 17 13 7 4 3
32 21 fr 4 -4 -8 16 14 7 4 3
33 10 fr 4 32 24 16 14 7 3 4
34 7 0 0 24 16 14 7 2 5
35 23 0 0 24 15 15 7 2 5
36 2 rr 15 -15 9 15 14 8 3 5
37 13 rr 15 -15 -6 15 13 9 4 5
38 8 0 0 -6 15 12 10 5 5
39 0 fr 5 -5 -11 14 13 10 5 5
40 21 rr 14 -14 -25 14 12 11 6 5
41 31 nr 12 24 -1 14 11 12 7 5
42 31 0 0 -1 14 11 12 6 6
43 27 fr 6 -6 -7 14 10 13 7 6
44 21 rr 14 -14 -21 14 10 13 6 7
45 30 rr 14 22 1 13 11 13 6 7
46 30 rr 13 -13 -12 13 10 14 7 7
47 36 fr 7 -7 -19 12 11 14 7 7
48 9 rr 12 24 5 11 12 14 7 7
49 6 fr 7 -7 -2 11 11 15 8 7
50 3 rr 11 25 23 10 12 15 8 7
thanks a lot for your reply and making the exception. much appreciate that
Can you please explain a little bit further like spin #31-33 ? and
Spin #37 and 40 where the difference is 2?
difference between Spin # 43 and 44?
difference between #46 and #47?
Spin # 50, why you pick to bet on 11?
Please note:
On spin x a number appears. this forms a combiantion.
If this combination is a crossing we bet [highlight]on the next spin[/highlight]
here is a number that forms an new combination. this might be a "no crossing"
e.g.
spin 35 we have 15-15 and bet on that in spin 36
the new number forms a "non-crossing" so we don´t bet in spin 37
It is only a problem of the coding of Excel and how to read and the calculation of win/loss
br
winkel
hi Winkel,
I am confused. you meant we do not bet spin #38? I saw you were betting spin 37..
For spin # 39, which 5 number did you pick? from the column 2" or >2"?
thanks
PH
Nelson
38 8 0 0 -6 15 12 10 5 5
I would certainly bet the spin 38 as it is a 2 vs >2 5/5.
You must learn to read Track4 three spins in advance.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 05, 2008, 12:39:08 PM
Nelson
38 8 0 0 -6 15 12 10 5 5
I would certainly bet the spin 38 as it is a 2 vs >2 5/5.
You must learn to read Track4 three spins in advance.
Sam
tks Sam.. ;) ;)
And I would bet 7 times :).
Bet 1: -4 +35 = +31
Bet 2: -5 -4 +35 = +26
Bet 3: -5 -5 -4 + 35 = +21
Bet 4: -5 -5 -5 -4 + 35 = +16
Bet 5: -5 -5 -5 -5 -4 +35 = +11
Bet 6: -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -4 +35 = +6
Bet 7: -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -4 +35 = +1
Here is a chart for live play
1Ful chart
[attachimg=#1]
2How to fold it for the one side and vica versa fo the other side
[attachimg=#2]
B\D=binomial distrubition
No 25 Is repeated to prevent confusion when turning to the next side.
Hope it will be help full.
regards
MAX
No 2 is the full chart and no 1 is how to fold it,it came out the wrong way ;D
Regards
Max
Hey guys. I think GUT is an excellent system, credit to Winkel and Droidman for his Track4 computer program.
I've just recently realized that while statistically all numbers should eventually hit over time, and on paper, that looks true...
The unhit numbers are the dangerous numbers in the GUT. About 25 of the 37 numbers, 26 for American live wheels make the casinos money. For the bettor, 12 will produce a constant profit and of those 12, five are the "Holy Grail".
The seven changes every 10-15 spins or so and the 5 change every 20-30 spins.
Thsi has come from playing with GUT about 100 times. FYI
Max
I thought I knew the G.U.T. inside out, but this throws me. What exactly do I do with it?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 07, 2008, 08:39:44 PM
Max
I thought I knew the G.U.T. inside out, but this throws me. What exactly do I do with it?
Sam
Sam
have you stopped testing the GUT? I've been watching your testing thread, but I haven't seen any new sessions lately? Are you taking a break?
mad
No I have not stopped. I had a loss of $144 and then I had to go with my wife to her mother's. I posted on December 4th or 5th under my testing thread.
I do have one concern, the new wheel at Microgaming. It is a Huxley Starburst and I don't know if it will behave the same as the one they were using.
Sam
Sorry to hear that TwoCat. :-[
On my end with GUT, it seems to be cooperating a little more.
Proof
Well, we have our ups and downs! Hopefully this is just a small downturn in an otherwise upward climb. I have not lost the faith!
Sam
All who even slightly care..........
I have run across a situation where a single bet will create a double crossing. First I will post the bet before and then after.
[table=,]
0,,,1,,,>1,,,2
13,,,11,,,13,,,10
[/table]
Notice in the above how you have a crossing on the 0 v >1 and 1 v 2. Now watch what happens with a hit on a single column the 1.
[table=,]
0,,,1,,,>1,,,2
13,,,11,,,13,,,10
13,,,10,,,14,,,11
[/table]
Notice in the above the hit on the 1 column caused the 0 v >1 and the 1 v 2 to cross. This is something for study; not ready to bet the farm on it.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on December 11, 2008, 03:14:54 PM
All who even slightly care..........
I have run across a situation where a single bet will create a double crossing. First I will post the bet before and then after.
[table=,]
0,,,1,,,>1,,,2
13,,,11,,,13,,,10
[/table]
Notice in the above how you have a crossing on the 0 v >1 and 1 v 2. Now watch what happens with a hit on a single column the 1.
[table=,]
0,,,1,,,>1,,,2
13,,,11,,,13,,,10
13,,,10,,,14,,,11
[/table]
Notice in the above the hit on the 1 column caused the 0 v >1 and the 1 v 2 to cross. This is something for study; not ready to bet the farm on it.
Sam
Hi Sam
you got mixed up again. that hit made all crossings disappear only!
If you were betting on 0vs>1 you´d only lost once
If you were betting on 1vs2 you´d won.
let us look as the possible outcomes;
[highlight]13 11 13 10[/highlight]
forms to
by hit on "0" [highlight]12 12 13 10[/highlight] and new crossing
by hit on "1" [highlight]13 10 14 11[/highlight]
by hit on "2" [highlight]13 11 13 09 01[/highlight]
possible decisions;
- as you do: bet both with 24 units
- bet 13 for a double hit on two following crossings
- bet 11 for a "smaller" bet and if not hit chance to bet 0vs1 12-12 or crossing is gone
- being unsure what to do, just wait for next spin-result.
To pick up a "wise" (not the "right") decision, that´s what I call "gamblers intelligence".
Therefore you have to refer to:
- at which spin is this situation
- how did the "0"s and "1"s behave before
- have your decisions or the crossings been misleading you
with your experience you should now see the answer, the wise one!
br
winkel
Hi Winkel
Winkel i for one followed this theory from day one and is truly a remarkable how all the guidelines you gave to us fall in place ,but the only way is to practice and get a feeling" gamblers intelligences". You are surely a man with a grate heart for sharing this knowledge to us,which i will treasure.
In my practicing i only play selective crossings closely looking how the binomial distribution develop and my graph of results are far in the positive.
;)
Regards
MAX
Thx max
br
winkel
winkel
Thanks for the explanation!
Max
Glad to hear someone else is working this system. Are you the one who posted the folding chart? If so, would you write an explanation of how that works?
Sam
Hi Sam
The folding chart is a way how to plot the numbers in a live casino.
The idea is to use a small folding chart with columns in which to work out the numbers spun in manual way.
The two small columns in the middle bottom, the is one marked B\D and is to follow and to see whether the numbers are near binomial distribution. The empty one is for writing win or lost on triggers.
Above these two is where to mark the numbers to use for a bet(not appeared . once appeared.......ext)
These columns will always be in front when the chart is folded
The bigger columns on the left an right is work out the numbers as explained by Winkle .
:)
Regards
MAX
is this finished yet????
it was a question
Quote from: ryan08 on December 14, 2008, 05:49:11 AM
it was a question
TCS is testing and making tutorials, so you can´t really say it is finished.
He is also explaining the more advanced way to play.
The rules from first pages haven´t changed.
So what is your question then?
br
winkel
you answered it thankyou :)
Hi Mr Winkel.
I'm quite fresh in roulette, within last 2 months I was studing it playing a little, mostly progressive systems, witch I found out not so good (but still
in lifetime money balance I'm up).
I found your system very logical and promising although, after some money play I decided to try with real money my bankroll was out within less then
1000 spins (playing 0,01gbp as a unit).
I'm doing something wrong. If I put here my sessions would you comment it?
Thank you in advance.
Best regards.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2F2103%2Fbankrolldownae8.jpg&hash=74af4e3f5dfe718786706292a875899b6354424e) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2Fbankrolldownae8.jpg%2F1%2Fw948.png&hash=a5c8ed21e0a998b3b5b365aad290663219c0defb) (nolinks://g.imageshack.us/img166/bankrolldownae8.jpg/1/)
Thing is you cant play this like a robot and dont play it for 1000 spins..Did you play it in sessions of 50 spins?
Quote from: trylobit on December 14, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
I'm doing something wrong. If I put here my sessions would you comment it?
of course!
I recommend a banroll as this:
200 at the table
200 to refill
200 to restart
br
winkel
yes, I played it in session of 50, sometimes a little bit more (look at the bottom of the chart).
I will put here in a second one of the sessions.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2F3788%2Fgut7745td0.jpg&hash=2fdc64dfba20e9bc34e9b13d0475fd2394e1214e) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2Fgut7745td0.jpg%2F1%2Fw892.png&hash=5fe0d907a109645ecadf700e44eb5f38e38f82f7) (nolinks://g.imageshack.us/img156/gut7745td0.jpg/1/)
should I go on after spin 41?
Ryan08
Yesterday I started with $2 bets on my way to $5 bets. I have turned $201 into $1368 with the G.U.T.
"Is it finished, yet?", You asked. Not for me. I'm learning every day. This thing is like a practice in medicine or law; you just keep on learning and I doubt if you ever learn it all.
I am getting better at it every week; make fewer mistakes. Last night I brushed my teeth while betting on a crossing. I have WiFi in me burrow.
Sam
Hi trylobit,
you have to practice a little more to see the crossings:
- you missed the bet 2vs>2 spin 32 (4-4) 33 (5-4) 34 win (4-5)
- you could have bet in spin 42 1vs>1 (12-11)
if the triggers come late, they are often very nice to play
any more? questions or charts?
br
winkel
Thank you Mr. Winkel.
So it is worth betting on 4-4?
Is it worth betting on 3-3 as well?
What about this one:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F8607%2Fgut9790sz6.jpg&hash=708eae5402b6846836903c23a2f5ca9f053e2239) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2Fgut9790sz6.jpg%2F1%2Fw878.png&hash=44a351729a601f05d8ed0cd073be2fe3298995cb) (nolinks://g.imageshack.us/img244/gut9790sz6.jpg/1/)
spin 28 1vs>1 10-9
spin 29 crossing dies 11-9
spin 32 1vs>1 11-10
spin 33 win 10-11
spin 33 1vs2 10-10
spin 34 10-9
spin 35 win 9-10
spin 36 1vs2 10-10
spin 37 10-9
spin 38 win 9-10
spin 46 1vs2 8-8
spin 37 9-8
spin 38 10-8 trigger died.
bet in spin 50 0vs1 11-11: as 0s have slept for a while and 1s are very low, had been worth a try. But this depends on the bankroll. as we have won in previous spins I had tried.
br
winkel
:)Man I've been putting it off and putting it off, but rather sooner than later I have to get into GUT. This does look good. And with all the idiots trying to shoot it down, I'm happy to see they ran out of ammo, lolol. Herb must be chasing storms trying to think of new comments to make while Ryan, well Ryan.........I guess you are also pretty much outa words lolol. I'd love to see Ryan's so-called Holy Grail though. Cannot wait for him to post it and ......back it. TCS u can really put it through the tests then.....that is if Ryan still believes in his ......Holy grail.
BTW TCS, haven't told you yet but man you are one important dude here. Haven't seen anyone ever doing the amount of testing you do. Well done mate.
Lastly to Winkel. Thank you for sticking around even with the unpleasantness of certain members towards your systems. You truly are a legend.
Ok guys. I will try to get into this sometime during December lolol
I should have it under the belt in December.........2009 (I am dumb, but I can weld) :D
Jakk
Jakk
I'm a welder, too. Well, I'm not fast. I'm half-fast! I'm a half-fast welder, but I built a carport of 3 x 3 steel that will withstand Oklahoma winds.
Thanks for your compliments. This G.U.T. has been the most fun I've ever had at roulette. I'm at $2 bets now going toward $5.
Welcome to the G.U.T. community.
Samster
HI,
I really like the look of this system have been reading bits of this forum but has so many pages to digest. Can someone post a simpl step by step guide so uses like myself can start from scratch.
Many thanks
Rob - a new member
Hi shoesmith81 welcome to the forum. :)
Watch Sams track4 tutorials and then his GUT testing videos..they are really great.
Hi all... When I approach learning something I like to disassemble it and put it back together, so when I decided to learn GUT I rebuilt GUT tracker using a Windows GUI. Not trying to step on android's toes or anything, but it's helped me gain some insights into how the system works. In doing this, I've read this entire thread twice over, but something still remains unclear to me: When backtracking, how far do you backtrack? Is it a static number, or do you backtrack to the last place there were good numbers on the board, or what? This question doesn't seem to be addressed, or if it is I've missed it. Sorry if I'm being dense.
[highlight]Jumpings[/highlight]
earlier I posted this
Perm 1.Cross w/l tot 19-18 proof
1 10N-9F 26 26 win in 2.
2 9N-8F 18 44 win in 2.
3 9N-8F -9 35 win in 2.
4 11R-10N 25 60 win in 2.
5 11N-10F 25 85 win in 2.
6 11N-10F -11 74 win in 2.
7 14R-14N -28 46 win in 2.
8 14R-13N -14 32 win in 2.
9 15R-14N -15 17 win in 2.
10 15R-14N -15 2 win in 2.
11 15R-14N -15 -13 win in 2.
12 11N-11F 3 -10 win in 1.
13 11N-11F 14 4 win in 1.
14 10N-9F 15 19 win in 2.
15 10N-10F 4 23 win in 1.
16 11N-10F -22 1 win in 1.
17 11N-10F -22 -21 win in 1.
18 14R-14N 22 1 win in 1.
19 15R-14N 21 22 win in 1.
20 15R-14N 21 43 win in 1.
21 16R-15N -32 11 win in 1.
22 15R-14N 21 32 win in 3.
23 15R-14N 6 38 win in 3.
24 15R-14N 6 44 win in 3.
25 15R-15N 6 50 win in 3.
26 15R-15N 6 56 win in 4.
27 16R-15N 4 60 win in 4.
28 16R-15N 4 64 win in 1.
29 16R-15N 20 84 win in 1.
30 16R-16N 20 104 win in 1.
31 17R-16N 2 106 win in 1.
32 17R-16N 19 125 win in 2.
33 17R-16N 19 144 win in 2.
34 17R-16N 19 163 win in 2.
35 17R-16N 19 182 win in 1.
36 17R-16N 19 201 win in 1.
37 17R-16N 19 220 win in 1.
38 17R-16N -17 203 win in 1.
39 17R-16N 19 222 win in 1.
40 17R-16N -17 205 win in 1.
41 17R-17N 2 207 win in 1.
42 17R-16N -17 190 win in 1.
43 16R-15N 20 210 win in 2.
44 16R-15N 20 230 win in 2.
45 16R-15N 20 250 win in 3.
46 16R-15N 20 270 win in 3.
47 16R-16N 20 290 win in 1.
48 16R-16N 20 310 win in 2.
49 17R-16N 19 329 win in 2.
50 17R-17N 19 348 win in 2.
51 17R-17N 19 367 win in 1.
52 18R-17N 18 385 win in 1.
53 18R-18N 18 403 win in 1.
54 18R-18N 18 421 win in 1.
55 18R-18N -36 385 win in 1.
56 18R-18N -36 349 win in 1.
57 17R-17N 19 368 win in 4.
58 17R-17N 2 370 win in 1.
59 17R-16N 19 389 win in 1.
60 17R-16N -17 372 win in 2.
61 17R-16N -17 355 win in 2.
62 16R-15N 20 375 win in 1.
63 17R-16N -17 358 win in 1.
64 17R-16N 19 377 win in 2.
65 17R-17N 19 396 win in 2.
66 17R-17N 19 415 win in 1.
67 17R-17N 19 434 win in 1.
68 17R-17N 19 453 win in 1.
69 18R-17N 18 471 win in 1.
70 18R-18N 18 489 win in 1.
71 18R-18N 18 507 win in 1.
72 11R-10F 14 521 win in 1.
73 16R-16N 4 525 win in 1.
74 18R-18N 18 543 win in 1.
75 18R-18N -36 507 win in 2.
76 11N-11F 1 508 win in 6.
77 16R-15N -16 492 win in 4.
78 11N-10F -11 481 win in 2.
79 14R-13N 22 503 win in 2.
80 14R-13N 22 525 win in 2.
81 11N-10F -33 492 win in 5.
82 11N-10F -33 459 win in 4.
83 14R-14N 22 481 win in 5.
84 15R-14N 21 502 win in 5.
85 15R-15N 21 523 win in 1.
86 15R-15N 21 544 win in 3.
87 15R-15N 21 565 win in 2.
88 15R-15N 21 586 win in 2.
89 15R-15N -30 556 win in 3.
90 15R-15N -30 526 win in 3.
91 15R-15N -30 496 win in 1.
92 15R-14N 21 517 win in 1.
93 15R-14N -15 502 win in 1.
94 15R-14N -15 487 win in 1.
Rules for this statistics:
start with spin 1
start with spin 2
start with spin 3
and so on
but it is only betting the first crossing on "0". If "0" didn´t present a crossing by running down the first crossing 1vsxx was used.
Now look at the 3. Column w/l. As you can see there are losing streaks and winning streaks.
Imagine you started and find yourself in a losing streak. Just jump.
How far you jump is of no interest. You have always the chance to jump into a winning streak.
I recommend as a minimum jump (better a cut off) when you would restart at spin 14 fo your first start.
A full jump would be a completly new start of counting.
If you wanna jump after the "virgin crossing" (Tcs named it so) 19-18 0vs1 you have to restart with the last 25 numbers.
The Tracker4 jumps back using the last 20 numbers which is a good jump, so you are able, to open a beer, the fridge, or the window for fresh air or have a break in the bathroom.
I hope you can see, what I´m talking about.
br
winkel
PS: I will dive deep in my folders and look for another way to describe this effect.
I understand. I just did a test run on 888's rng, with disastrous results (lost 200 units). I tried jumping, not jumping, but just couldn't hit a win streak. oh well, will try again tomorrow.
Tried again today at Rushmore's RNG, finished up 150 units (2 dollar units, so 300 dollars). I seem to consistently win at Rushmore, but in order to spin you have to bet. Not a big deal, bet one red one black, but you lose two dollars every now and again when the zero appears.
Oh, one more question. In watching TCS's videos, I noticed that he sometimes bets more than one crossing (and wins more often than he loses). I assume that this is okay, as long as your bet doesn't exceed 18 units... Is that right? If not, set me straight.
Ravon
I sometimes exceed 17 units per spin. I know I should not, but it has worked well in the past. If I have a small crossing, say 4/3 and I don't bet those 4 numbers, I loose too many times on it.
However, you can bet 24 numbers and have one of the uncovered 13 get you. That's why I'm down $600+.
Sam
Seriously, this is the best system ever!!! Thank you very muck winkel for sharing this system with us. In 81 spins, I've skipped from $1000 to 3225$. Thank you very much winkel!!! But I have a question for you: How did you find this system?
If you want to see my session in a Excel file:
Bl4ckSt0rm,
Welcome to the forum mate.
QuoteIn 81 spins, I've skipped from $1000 to 3225$.
Nicely done mate. Congratulations!
QuoteThank you very much winkel!!! But I have a question for you: How did you find this system?
To my knowledge, he didn't find this system, he created it, and he was kind enough to share it with everyone here and help explain it to anyone interested.
All the best,
Marven
I've heard from Herb (he's a member) that this system is based on a law: The Law of the Third.
Dont join the darkside! They are scary ;)
Quote from: Bl4ckSt0rm on December 16, 2008, 12:31:42 AM
How did you find this system?
Hi black,
this was a very long way. First I started to find a hint when or where a sleeper has a good chance to bet on. then I tried it on repeaters.
By teting I saw, that nobody ever talked about the numbers that did there work by just just coming up once in 37 spins. so I tested these numbers.
Then I found that the way through 37 spins is marked (or can be followed) by the counting of all three groups: Sleepers, once and repeaters. I calculated the binomial distribution of all three kinds and saw these "crossings" Then I started to find a way to bet on them with a calculated risk.
That´s it. It took me some years and millions of spins to put it up and make it save that you will be able to bet a very long time without loosing a huge amount of money by betting a progression. so it came out flat betting and I never had to think about a progression.
br
winkel
Quote from: Bl4ckSt0rm on December 16, 2008, 12:31:42 AM
Seriously, this is the best system ever!!! Thank you very muck winkel for sharing this system with us. In 81 spins, I've skipped from $1000 to 3225$. Thank you very much winkel!!! But I have a question for you: How did you find this system?
If you want to see my session in a Excel file:
Hi Black,
I´m only counting in units.
The size of the units is on your own risk and ability.
Because I´m not a gambler only a thinker, I bet it with 1ct or 10ct per unit. I do it just for fun, nothing else.
to everyone who wanna risk money on this: start with paper-booking or really low unit-size. It is like chess: the rules on one side, the experience and intelligence on the other,
br
winkel
Hi winkel, if you want to know the profit in units for my 81 spin session, it was of 89 units. It's more than 1 unit per spin!!! You say that you are a thinker and not a gambler, but with this system, it's not gambling it's more like: playing a system to the letter and win a bunch of money. ;)
Quote from: Bl4ckSt0rm on December 16, 2008, 02:01:19 PM
Hi winkel, if you want to know the profit in units for my 81 spin session, it was of 89 units. It's more than 1 unit per spin!!! You say that you are a thinker and not a gambler, but with this system, it's not gambling it's more like: playing a system to the letter and win a bunch of money. ;)
for a warning and to know the risk please watch TCS´s Testing Area. There are some difficult situations possible which are not easy to solve.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/twocat%27s-last-test-of-the-g-u-t-movies-will-be-way-too-long!/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/twocat%27s-last-test-of-the-g-u-t-movies-will-be-way-too-long!/)
I know the number of units you had won, that is not the problem, but betting with 25$-units is another thing.
br
winkel
Hi!
I'm getting better. Playing so far on paper and from 200units I'm on 335 now, but I still make mistakes.
Please take a look at this session, and tell me could I avoid losing 44units?
Thanks!
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F8307%2F44gw6.jpg&hash=73ad9704af4af46253c8a2ca12da94763360d7ba) (nolinks://imageshack.us)
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F44gw6.jpg%2F1%2Fw959.png&hash=5daace22f237e103f4cd4a9922ea9c5722fedc6b) (nolinks://g.imageshack.us/img518/44gw6.jpg/1/)
Hi Trylobit,
no you couldn´t do nothing!
As long as you book on paper, bet every crossing, just to see hwat is going on.
do always look back what happened before and try to find hints, why this crossing did work or not.
br
winkel
Hello Winkel.
I read this thread 2-3 times,but my english is very easy.
Please correct me:
I understand basic system:
play crossing 17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15
etc.
1.I playing max 17 numbers (crossing 18-17 dont play ? )
2.If i have first profit,stop and go back in 20 spin?(I have Track4 software.)
example:
17-17 lost -17
17-16 win profit +2 go back or play more? How much i need minimum profit?
3.Because i beginner I can playing only 0vs1 , 0vs2 , 0vs>1 , 0vs>2 , 1vs2 , 1vs>2 ?
4.I play max 50 spins?
5.If lost:
bet 17-13 bet max twice
bet 12-10 bet max three times
bet 9 or less max 4 times
example:
15-14 bet -15 lost
15-14 bet -15 lost (total lost -30)
15-15 no more bet because max twice
6.My bankrol is 100,- bet is 0,25,-/number
Sorry for my english,this is my big problem.
Thank you for your tolerance.
Hi paganes,
please watch these tutorial videos
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/twocat-tests-the-g-u-t-mach-iii-tutorial-movies-about-the-g-u-t-and-more!/msg27690/#msg27690 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/twocat-tests-the-g-u-t-mach-iii-tutorial-movies-about-the-g-u-t-and-more!/msg27690/#msg27690)
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
49 11 W 10 11 16 13 3 +36
48 9 L 11 10 16 13 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 22 27 28 31 35 11 +0
47 14 W 11 11 15 12 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 22 27 28 31 35 11 +11
46 21 W 11 12 14 11 3 =1: 9 10 13 14 16 18 20 21 24 33 34 36 12 -14
45 12 L 12 11 14 11 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 21 22 27 28 31 35 12 -38
44 25 L 12 11 14 11 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 21 22 27 28 31 35 12 -26
43 32 L 12 12 13 10 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 21 22 27 28 31 35 12 -14
42 4 W 12 12 13 10 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 21 22 27 28 31 35 12 -2
41 29 L 12 13 12 9 3 =1: 4 9 10 13 14 16 18 20 24 25 33 34 36 13 -26
40 17 L 12 14 11 8 3 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 21 22 27 28 31 35 12 -13
39 19 12 14 11 9 2 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 15 21 22 27 28 31 35 12 -1
38 23 12 15 10 8 2
37 13 12 16 9 7 2
36 23 W 13 15 9 7 2 +11
35 26 14 14 9 7 2 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 13 15 21 22 23 27 28 31 35 14 -25
34 1 14 15 8 6 2
33 19 W 14 16 7 5 2 -11
32 3 15 15 7 5 2 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 13 15 19 21 22 23 27 28 31 35 15 -47
31 12 15 16 6 4 2
30 20 15 16 6 4 2
29 2 L 16 15 6 4 2 -32
28 12 L 16 16 5 3 2 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 13 15 19 20 21 22 23 27 28 31 35 16 -32
27 33 16 16 5 4 1 =0: 5 6 7 8 11 13 15 19 20 21 22 23 27 28 31 35 16 -16
26 4 17 15 5 4 1
25 17 18 14 5 4 1
24 12 18 15 4 3 1
23 1 18 16 3 2 1
22 34 19 15 3 2 1
21 24 20 14 3 2 1
20 16 21 13 3 2 1
19 10 22 12 3 2 1
18 12 23 11 3 2 1
17 29 24 10 3 2 1
16 30 25 9 3 2 1
15 17 25 10 2 1 1
14 2 26 9 2 1 1
13 32 27 8 2 1 1
12 9 27 8 2 2
11 0 28 7 2 2
10 14 28 8 1 1
9 3 29 7 1 1
8 26 30 6 1 1
7 36 31 5 1 1
6 0 32 4 1 1
5 25 33 3 1 1
4 32 34 2 1 1
3 32 34 3
2 18 35 2
1 30 36 1
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
Playing with £2 chips i was £98 in profit on my first session. :)
The unit-size is at your own risk.
I wouldn´t do that
br
winkel
Hi Prof Winkel,
Can you plz give some suggestions on the spins #23-27 where I saw repeat numbers ,
Basically, how to deal with the repeating right prior to the crossing?
also the spin 28th where the crossing ran away?
thanks
PH
QuoteThe unit-size is at your own risk.
I wouldn´t do that
br
winkel
how would you ever win something substantial win this if £2 stakes is a risk?
Quote from: pighead on December 31, 2008, 01:39:30 AM
Hi Prof Winkel,
Can you plz give some suggestions on the spins #23-27 where I saw repeat numbers ,
Basically, how to deal with the repeating right prior to the crossing?
also the spin 28th where the crossing ran away?
thanks
PH
Sorry pighead,
but I can only read 27 numbers and I´m not sure I got them all.
Pls give the full perm and I will reply.
br
winkel
Quote from: ryan08 on December 31, 2008, 01:52:00 AM
how would you ever win something substantial win this if £2 stakes is a risk?
Hi ryan,
I don´t know kingpin and I don´t know if he is following my bankroll-rules and my money-management.
I don´t know if he is used enough to the strategy and studied it very well playing virtuell and if he knows all the risks of playing it.
And I don´t know if he is playing with his last dime or if he is so rich, that even a 100$-unit wouldn´t bother him.
I just don´t wanna be blamed to have ruined someone.
I only use 1ct or 10ct units, because I don´t need to win money, I do it just for fun.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on December 31, 2008, 02:17:00 AM
Sorry pighead,
but I can only read 27 numbers and I´m not sure I got them all.
Pls give the full perm and I will reply.
br
winkel
Here you go Winkel. Also Wish you and your families have a happy new year..
spin #
1 18
2 34
3 13
4 8
5 5
6 27
7 6
8 21
9 22
10 1
11 8
12 29
13 7
14 1
15 21
16 22
17 15
18 14
19 9
20 29
21 0
22 30
23 30
24 3
26 3
26 7
27 9
28 13
29 16
30 29
This is what the GUTCBA says.
so what is your problem?
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
30 29 18 9 10 9 1 =1: 0 5 6 14 15 16 18 27 34 9 +18
29 16 18 9 10 10
28 13 W 19 8 10 10 +27
27 9 19 9 9 9 =1: 0 5 6 13 14 15 18 27 34 9 -9
26 7 19 10 8 8
25 3 19 11 7 7
24 3 19 12 6 6
23 30 20 11 6 6
22 30 20 12 5 5
21 0 21 11 5 5
20 29 22 10 5 5
19 9 22 11 4 4
18 14 23 10 4 4
17 15 24 9 4 4
16 22 25 8 4 4
15 21 25 9 3 3
14 1 25 10 2 2
13 7 25 11 1 1
12 29 26 10 1 1
11 8 27 9 1 1
10 1 27 10
9 22 28 9
8 21 29 8
7 6 30 7
6 27 31 6
5 5 32 5
4 8 33 4
3 13 34 3
2 34 35 2
1 18 36 1
- - 37 0 0 0 0
Quote from: winkel on December 31, 2008, 02:41:03 PM
This is what the GUTCBA says.
so what is your problem?
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
30 29 18 9 10 9 1 =1: 0 5 6 14 15 16 18 27 34 9 +18
29 16 18 9 10 10
28 13 W 19 8 10 10 +27
27 9 19 9 9 9 =1: 0 5 6 13 14 15 18 27 34 9 -9
26 7 19 10 8 8
25 3 19 11 7 7
24 3 19 12 6 6
23 30 20 11 6 6
22 30 20 12 5 5
21 0 21 11 5 5
20 29 22 10 5 5
19 9 22 11 4 4
18 14 23 10 4 4
17 15 24 9 4 4
16 22 25 8 4 4
15 21 25 9 3 3
14 1 25 10 2 2
13 7 25 11 1 1
12 29 26 10 1 1
11 8 27 9 1 1
10 1 27 10
9 22 28 9
8 21 29 8
7 6 30 7
6 27 31 6
5 5 32 5
4 8 33 4
3 13 34 3
2 34 35 2
1 18 36 1
- - 37 0 0 0 0
Hi winkel,
I just downloaded GUTCBA. and I will need to study more..
the problem was that I bet on those 19 =0 numbers.
BTW, what is the reason that you chose those 9 =1 instead of those 19 =0?
thanks
PH
Hi pighead,
we don´t bet 19 "0"s vs 18 ">0"
we only bet less than 18 numbers
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on December 31, 2008, 05:37:27 PM
Hi pighead,
we don´t bet 19 "0"s vs 18 ">0"
we only bet less than 18 numbers
br
winkel
Hi Winkel,
Yes I saw that rule on KFS's post.. I believe that's a good approach to deal with the # repeating prior to the first crossing and also it increases the profit margin too.
I saw KFS quote "The winning is due to the crossings not to the decision you make to bet or not" from you
I would say:
"The winning is due to the repeating not to the decision you make to bet or not" ;)
@all
this is one example of my version
R N F
36 1 0
35 2 0
34 3 0
33 4 0
32 5 0
31 6 0
31 5 1
30 6 1
29 7 1
28 8 1
27 9 1
27 8 2
27 7 3
26 8 3
25 9 3
25 8 4
25 7 5 Satz N
24 8 5 N -7
23 9 5
22 10 5
22 9 6
22 9 6
21 10 6
20 11 6
19 12 6
18 13 6
17 14 6
17 14 6
16 15 6
16 14 7 Satz R
15 15 7 R +20
15 14 8
15 13 9 Satz R
15 12 10 R -15 Satz N
15 12 10 N -12 Satz N
15 12 10 N -12 Satz N
14 13 10 N -12
14 13 10
14 13 10
14 13 10
14 12 11
14 11 12
14 11 12 Satz N
13 12 12 N +22 Satz R
12 13 12 R +23
11 14 12
10 15 12
10 14 13
10 14 13
10 14 13
10 14 13
10 13 14 Satz R
9 14 14 R +27
9 14 14
9 13 15
9 12 16
9 11 17
9 11 17
9 11 17
9 11 17
9 10 18 Satz N
9 9 19 N +27
9 9 19
9 9 19
9 8 20
9 8 20
9 8 20
9 7 21 Satz R
9 7 21 R -9 Satz R
8 8 21 R +28
8 8 21
8 7 22
8 7 22
8 6 23
Hi Gerhard,
can you please explain your version
so everybodies can make test
i follow you on the german forum
but i don t understand german to mutch unfortunatly
best
NTM :thumbsup:
The Strategy that GUT based of is the Binomialdistribution and there Deviations.
We define
= 0 (R)est
= 1 (N)ormal
> 1 (F)avorit
So the Randomwalk is possible from
37/0/0 to 0/0/37 ;we don´t know how exactly but can calculate the most probabiliest way
If we do this,we will see,that R,N,F have to cross each other means that both
R+N or R+F or N+F
HAVE to be equal
And this is my Strategy math based!
The Attack stops if F is bigger than N and F s bigger than R
I will show you Permanences from WIESBADEN,Casinoclub;Random.org,win2day....
CU
RCEC
Hi RCEC. :)
Quote from: RCEC on January 18, 2009, 05:17:59 AM
R,N,F have to cross each other means that both
R+N or R+F or N+F
HAVE to be equal
Yes, but they don't HAVE to do it at the exact moment you place your bet, that's the problem. The crossing can be delayed by an unpredictable number of spins. Otherwise, everyone would be rich by now betting on the GUT's crossings.
I'm not saying that this might not work though. Just stating a simple fact. :)
Regards,
Marven
wiesbaden 17.01.09 table 3
R N F
36 1 0
35 2 0
34 3 0
33 4 0
32 5 0
31 6 0
30 7 0
30 6 1
29 7 1
28 8 1
27 9 1
26 10 1
25 11 1
24 12 1
23 13 1
23 12 2
22 13 2
21 14 2
20 15 2
20 14 3
20 13 4
20 12 5
20 12 5
19 13 5
19 12 6
19 11 7
18 12 7
18 11 8
17 12 8
16 13 8
15 14 8
14 15 8
13 16 8
13 15 9
13 14 10 Bet N to get 13/13/11
13 14 10 Bet N to get 13/13/11 -14
13 13 11 Bet N to get 13/12/12 22
12 14 11 Bet R to get 11/15/11 -13
12 14 11 Bet R to get 11/15/11 -12
11 15 11 24
11 15 11
10 16 11
9 17 11
9 17 11
9 17 11
9 17 11
9 16 12
9 15 13 Bet N to get 9/14/14
9 14 14 21
9 14 14
9 14 14
9 14 14
9 13 15 F>R;F>N Game Over Total +28
CU
GB
Interessting one ! Casinoclub today 18.01.09
R N F
36 1 0
35 2 0 Bet N to get 35/1/1
35 1 1 34
34 2 1
33 3 1 Bet N to get 33/2/2
33 3 1 Bet N to get 33/2/2 -3
32 4 1 -3
31 5 1
30 6 1
29 7 1
28 8 1
28 7 2
28 6 3
27 7 3
26 8 3
25 9 3
24 10 3
23 11 3
23 11 3
23 10 4
22 11 4
21 12 4
21 11 5
21 10 6
20 11 6
19 12 6
19 11 7
19 11 7
18 12 7
17 13 7
16 14 7 Bet R to get 15/15/7
16 14 7 Bet R to get 15/15/7 -16
16 13 8 -16
16 13 8
15 14 8
15 13 9 Bet R to get 14/14/9
15 13 9 Bet R to get 14/14/9 -15
14 14 9 21
14 14 9
14 13 10
14 12 11 Bet R to get 13/13/11
14 12 11 Bet R to get 13/13/11 -14
13 13 11 Bet N to get 13/12/12
12 14 11 Bet N to get 12/13/12 -13
12 13 12 22
12 13 12
11 14 12 Bet N to get 11/13/13
11 14 12 Bet N to get 11/13/14 -14
11 13 13 22
11 12 14 F>R;F>N Game Over Total +5
CU
GB
random.org
R N F
36 1 0
35 2 0
34 3 0
33 4 0
32 5 0
31 6 0
30 7 0
29 8 0
28 9 0
27 10 0
26 11 0
26 10 1
25 11 1
25 10 2
24 11 2
23 12 2
22 13 2
21 14 2
20 15 2
20 14 3
19 15 3
18 16 3 Bet R to get 17/17/3
17 17 3 18
17 17 3
17 16 4
16 17 4
16 17 4
15 18 4
14 19 4
14 18 5
14 18 5
13 19 5
13 18 6
12 19 6
11 20 6
10 21 6
10 20 7
10 19 8
10 19 8
10 18 9 Bet N to get 10/17/10
10 17 10 18
9 18 10
8 19 10
8 19 10
8 18 11
8 17 12
8 16 13
8 15 14
7 16 14 Bet N to get 7/15/15
7 16 14 Bet N to get 7/15/15 -16
6 17 14 -16
5 18 14
5 17 15 Bet N to get 5/16/16
5 16 16 19
5 16 16
5 16 16
4 17 16
4 16 17 F>R;F>N Game over Total +19
CU
GB
livegame at win2day
R N F Satz
36 1 0
35 2 0
34 3 0
33 4 0
32 5 0
31 6 0
30 7 0
29 8 0
28 9 0
27 10 0
26 11 0
25 12 0
24 13 0
24 12 1
24 11 2
23 12 2
23 12 2
22 13 2
21 14 2
21 13 3
21 13 3
20 14 3
20 13 4
19 14 4
19 13 5
18 14 5
18 13 6
18 13 6
18 13 6
18 12 7
17 13 7
17 12 8
16 13 8
15 14 8
15 13 9 R
15 13 9 R -15
15 13 9 R -15
14 14 9 21
13 15 9
12 16 9
11 17 9
10 18 9 R
9 19 9 26
9 18 10
9 18 10
9 18 10
8 19 10
8 19 10
8 18 11
8 17 12
7 18 12
7 17 13
7 17 13
7 16 14 N
7 16 14 N -16
7 15 15 20
7 14 16 ende
cool :)
GB
So......... I must be honest, I havn't read all 64 pages :-\ :o So could any one tell me if this is worth the time and effort? like does it really work?
Quote from: poit on January 23, 2009, 01:56:11 PM
So......... I must be honest, I havn't read all 64 pages :-\ :o So could any one tell me if this is worth the time and effort? like does it really work?
Have a look in the testing zone, TCS is doing great work there. It does work, why won't you try it out?
My laptop is in the shop having over 200 viruses removed. When it's back, I'll continue with the betting.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 23, 2009, 02:33:36 PM
My laptop is in the shop having over 200 viruses removed.
Too much porn sam! ;D ;D ;D
Boo
Not that I'm holier than anyone, but I really don't visit porn sites. I got these from visiting roulette sites.
The new viruses are so smart they can turn off your anti-virus software.
Sam
I was just joking sam :)
Boo
I took it as a joke! Actually, the guy at Best Buy asked me where I visited. I knew exactly what he was thinking.
Who knows of a really good anti-virus software? I was using Web Root and it missed all the viruses.
Sam
Avira Antivir Personal - Free Antivirus for private use
br
winkel
Nod32 or AVG
they are good :)
Sam
I use Avast free edition and have done for years without any problems
TSK
Or you can do what I did over 2 years ago. Switch to Mac :)
Virus proof.
Quote
Switch to Mac :)
I have to agree.
KFS
I have a question for Winkel (or TCS, which I think has understood the steps).
33. 19 15 12 10 9 1 1 0
34. 12 14 13 10 9 1 1 0
35. 16 13 14 10 9 1 1 0
36. 29 13 13 11 10 1 1 0
37. 13 13 13 11 9 2 2 0
38. 13 13 13 11 9 2 1 1
39. 24 13 13 11 8 3 2 1
40. 9 12 14 11 8 3 2 1
41. 29 12 14 11 7 4 3 1 Bet 0 >1 = win
42. 32 11 15 11 7 4 3 1 Bet 0 >1 again ?
Shot 41 to win, shot 42 to have to play again?
Thanks for your answer
alex00
So......... I must be honest, I havn't read all 64 pages So could any one tell me if this is worth the time and effort? like does it really work?
Poit my own experience of the gut is that it seems to work much better on certain wheels than others, I did some tests on the gut at gala casino with a few fair sized losses it just seemed not to work well at all on the wheel at gala casino. I quit using gut method at gala casino because losses knocked me down. On other casino wheels the wins are much more consistant. I am still trying to work it out why the gut favours some wheels over others. I know it sounds bizzarr as all wheels should play the same. Maybe bad luck was the cause i am not sure. I have one casino where the gut method is an absolute killer and winning sessions are just about guaranteed . The gut by winkel is not perfect but i believe it is one of the best methods around at the moment. I keep going back to it and keep making profit , other systems have been losers time after time.
Hi Kingspin
I have been playin the G.U.T. for a few months now and I definitely win more than I lose .
Your comments on winning more on some wheels than others are a direct comparison to Sams findings.When the casino he was playin G.U.T. in changed to the Huxley starburst his winning percentage took an almighty nosedive if I remember correctly.It sure is a strange thing to behold!
As Winkel also pointed out ,you have to use a cetain amount of intelligence in the system too .As in ,if the '1's have hit say 4 times in a row then are you prepared to bet them on a fifth consecutive chance?
Regards
TSK
Quote from: alex00 on January 24, 2009, 08:23:47 PM
I have a question for Winkel (or TCS, which I think has understood the steps).
33. 19 15 12 10 9 1 1 0
34. 12 14 13 10 9 1 1 0
35. 16 13 14 10 9 1 1 0
36. 29 13 13 11 10 1 1 0
37. 13 13 13 11 9 2 2 0
38. 13 13 13 11 9 2 1 1
39. 24 13 13 11 8 3 2 1
40. 9 12 14 11 8 3 2 1
41. 29 12 14 11 7 4 3 1 Bet 0 >1 = win
42. 32 11 15 11 7 4 3 1 Bet 0 >1 again ?
Shot 41 to win, shot 42 to have to play again?
Thanks for your answer
alex00
Hi alex,
nice example,
just my thoughts:
"0" have 2 wins in a row then slept for 4 spins and is now moving down 1 win 1 sleep 1 win
(unfortunately we have lost our bet 0vs1 13vs13 so we are down -26)
"1" had 1 win and then slept for 3 spins and its now rising up
">1" had 4 hits in a row and 1 sleep 1 win 1 sleep
We have won 0vs>1 with a plus 24 so our BR is -2
in short:
0 is moving down
1 is moving up
>1 is waving
between spin 37 and spin 50 we expect 4 "0"; 4 "1"; and 4 ">1";
we had 2 "0", no "1; 4 ">1"
1. possible result: "0" is rising down after sleeping and is going on (bet 0vs>1)
2. possible result: "1" had no hit and are like to spin up (no bet)
3. possible result: ">1" are waving (in their results not in figures) (no bet)
as we have recovered our loss: Just jump back
br
winkel
PS: this would be also the hint for the 13 12 12 : 12 13 12 : 12 12 13 etc.
ref: [highlight]discussion if it is working here and not working there[/highlight]
you have always to have in mind, that there are no consecutive winnings always up. there are always losses possible.
But:
we have winnings in a row (upwards)
we have losses in a row (downwards)
we have winnings and losses (waving)
not only in a game we started, but also on the casino/table/RNG we play
when you look at my testings you will see
- that the airball is going down and then very late starts to recover
- that one of the others is losing for a while and then recovers
what you have to do is to watch in which movement you are:
You are losing: so jump and jump until you hit a winning streak (jump in spins or jump in tables!!!!)
You are winning: so stay and watch when it is starting to wave, it might be a singla for changing to go down
You are in a waving state: So have there been losings before, stay because it will go up
You are in a waving state: So have there been winning before, be prepared to stop because it might go down
do you see what is going on?
br
winkel
Winkel Hello ...
look at this game, as you would have played?
0: 3 4 6 9 10 14 24 25 28 29 32 34
1: 0 2 11 13 16 18 20 21 26 35 36
2: 1 5 8 12 15 19 22 30 31 33
3: 7 17 27
>3: 23
34. 20 12 17 8 7 1 1 0
35. 15 12 16 9 8 1 1 0
36. 12 12 15 10 9 1 1 0
37. 23 12 15 10 8 2 2 0
38. 17 12 14 11 9 2 2 0 Bet 0>1
39. 23 12 14 11 9 2 1 1 Bet 0>1
40. 22 12 13 12 10 2 1 1 No Bet
41. 27 12 13 12 9 3 2 1 No bet
42. 1 12 12 13 10 3 2 1 Bet 0=1
43. 17 12 12 13 9 4 3 1 Bet 0=1
44. 30 12 11 14 10 4 3 1 Bet 0=1
45. 26 12 10 15 11 4 3 1 Bet 0=2
46. 27 12 10 15 11 4 2 2 Bet 0=2
47. 0 12 9 16 12 4 2 2 Bet 0=2
48. 0 12 9 16 11 5 3 2
49. 18 12 8 17 12 5 3 2
Num ?
Res 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
The "0" has slept little ...
alex00
Pls look for Kon fu sed´s GUTCBA and put the spins in it.
br
winkel
Hi alex,
You may find the G.U.T. CBA that Winkel mentioned by following this link:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=273 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=273)
:thumbsup:
Regards,
Marven
Hello everyone,
I am reading this topic for a few days now.
And I have a question for winkel.
Have you ever thought about binomical distribution of other type of nubmers?(read to the end)
My way of thinking(this only reffers to LIVE wheel)
I make records of spins at eurobet LIVE roulette. I made around 10.000 spins. Now I will start to observe the spins with the GUT.
I make diagrams for the numbers that hit, and for the gaps between hits(example - results: 26,32,32,17, i write down 26 to 32=2, 32 to 32=0, 32 to 17=7). I also get 37 numbers. 0-36.
We cannot determine the number, that is somehow better to play in a long term. My diagrams are becoming equal. Every number will soon hit the 2.7%.
But with the gaps between, it is different story.
I have 15 GAPS, that have above 2,85% of hitting. And from the beginning of my records, those gaps are still the same.
I think, that the gaps also have to cross. And obviously they are more predictible than numbers. And we have the same numbers 0-36.
Do you think, it would be more effective, if we would search for binomical distribution with the gaps?
I can give you an excell sheet with lets say 200 gaps, or as many gaps as you want. Could you do some tests, to see, if it is more secure to seek binomical distribute in gaps?
regards from Slovenia
Quote from: Winkel on January 26, 2009, 06:17:30 PM
Pls look for Kon fu sed´s GUTCBA and put the spins in it.
br
winkel
Winkel... I'm sorry, but I have not saved the exits, because it rewrites track4 numbers.
Quote from: upiwaly on January 26, 2009, 08:02:00 PM
But with the gaps between, it is different story.
I think, that the gaps also have to cross. And obviously they are more predictible than numbers.
Hi upiwaly,
it makes no difference. Because the size of the gaps is just another sorting of the numbers on the wheel.
I call it "Universal" because it works on any kind of binomial distribution.
It is no difference on random.org-numbers, RNg, Lievewheel with dealer, lievewheel with airball. (no matter European or Amercian wheels)
You could turn the wheel to the arithmical order and it would work also.
br
winkel
Quote from: alex00 on January 26, 2009, 09:42:59 PM
Winkel... I'm sorry, but I have not saved the exits, because it rewrites track4 numbers.
Alex,
it doesnt matter how I would have played your session, it matters how you play it.
I would say, play a session (give the results.txt a rename so you can save it) and then put the numbers in the GUTCBA)
There you will see, what crossings you have missed.
On the other hand: There are some session which will lose. You can´t always win.#
38. 17 12 14 11 9 2 2 0 Bet 0>1
39. 23 12 14 11 9 2 1 1 Bet 0>1
40. 22 12 13 12 10 2 1 1 No Bet [highlight]here you could have bet a 3rd time[/highlight]
41. 27 12 13 12 9 3 2 1 No bet [highlight]here you should have changed to 1vs>1 win in 2nd spin[/highlight]
42. 1 12 12 13 10 3 2 1 Bet 0=1
43. 17 12 12 13 9 4 3 1 Bet 0=1
44. 30 12 11 14 10 4 3 1 Bet 0=1 [highlight]here you could have bet 1vs2 win[/highlight]
45. 26 12 10 15 11 4 3 1 Bet 0=2
46. 27 12 10 15 11 4 2 2 Bet 0=2
47. 0 12 9 16 12 4 2 2 Bet 0=2
48. 0 12 9 16 11 5 3 2
49. 18 12 8 17 12 5 3 2
If there is a long sleeping column I usually bet it after a loss [highlight]and it must have moved once[/highlight].
Hi Winkel!
You know me I´m crazy and I want to tell "My Way" of your genious RNF better =0 =1 >1
nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=5768&st=480#entry114788 (nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=5768&st=480#entry114788)
If someone needs translation ask!
CU
Gerry
Hi RCEC....
Can you translate your variation on this forum?
thanks
Hi Gerry,
can you translate
it wil be great for the passionates members of this forum
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 15 36 1
2 10 35 2
3 27 34 3
4 34 33 4
5 13 32 5
6 30 31 6
7 29 30 7
8 22 29 8
9 22 29 7 1 1
10 4 28 8 1 1
11 14 27 9 1 1
12 20 26 10 1 1
13 5 25 11 1 1
14 5 25 10 2 2
15 4 25 9 3 3
16 31 24 10 3 3
17 16 23 11 3 3
18 10 23 10 4 4
19 24 22 11 4 4
20 7 21 12 4 4
21 33 20 13 4 4
22 5 20 13 4 3 1
23 30 20 12 5 4 1
24 15 20 11 6 5 1
25 8 19 12 6 5 1
26 4 19 12 6 4 2
27 15 19 12 6 3 3 =2: 10 22 30 3 -3
28 3 L 18 13 6 3 3 =2: 10 22 30 3 -6
29 16 L 18 12 7 4 3 =2: 10 16 22 30 4 -10
30 21 L 17 13 7 4 3 =2: 10 16 22 30 4 -14
31 7 L 17 12 8 5 3 -14
32 14 17 11 9 6 3
33 3 17 10 10 7 3 =1: 8 13 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34 10 -24
34 22 L 17 10 10 6 4 =1: 8 13 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34 10 -34
35 3 L 17 10 10 5 5 =1: 8 13 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34 10 -44
36 17 L 16 11 10 5 5 =1: 8 13 17 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34 11 -55
37 3 L 16 11 10 5 5 =1: 8 13 17 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34 11 -66
38 2 L 15 12 10 5 5 =2: 7 10 14 16 30 5 -71
39 19 L 14 13 10 5 5 =0: 0 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 14 -85
40 14 L 14 13 10 4 6 =0: 0 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 14 -99
41 15 L 14 13 10 4 6 -99
42 0 13 14 10 4 6
43 19 13 13 11 5 6 =0: 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 13 -112
44 3 L 13 13 11 5 6 =0: 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 13 -125
45 20 L 13 12 12 6 6 =0: 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 13 -138
46 23 W 12 13 12 6 6 =1: 0 2 8 13 17 21 23 24 27 29 31 33 34 13 -115
47 26 L 11 14 12 6 6 =2: 7 10 16 19 20 30 6 -121
48 3 L 11 14 12 6 6 =2: 7 10 16 19 20 30 6 -127
Winkel, any comments on that numbers? The wheel was unbelievable...
Quote from: RCEC on January 27, 2009, 01:33:47 PM
Hi Winkel!
You know me I´m crazy and I want to tell "My Way" of your genious RNF better =0 =1 >1
nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=5768&st=480#entry114788 (nolinks://nolinks.roulette-board.de/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=5768&st=480#entry114788)
If someone needs translation ask!
Hi Gerry.
Bring it on mate.
Always open to knew ideas here.
Thanks,
Marven
Quote from: upiwaly on January 28, 2009, 08:16:13 PM
Winkel, any comments on that numbers? The wheel was unbelievable...
of course ;D
How many losses does it need to convince you, you´re on a losing streak?
As soon as you realize that, jump back!
br
winkel
@all
don´t wait for Gerry´s game.
He jumps on a train and is upset as long as it is running. When it starts losing or showing up to be wrong he disappears.
In his way of betting there is no sense and no rules just a nice trot.
in the most advanced way of playing G.U.T you can try to bet on a crossing to appear.
that means betting on a difference of +2 instead of +1 or 0, but you need a lot of experience and to now exactly what is goin on.
betting on a non-crossing to get a equal of two groups is the same.
e.g. 13 14 10 betting 1s to get a 13 13 11
on the other hand he is only watching 3 groups 0 1 >1.
br
winkel
Quote from: The Spiders Kiss on January 24, 2009, 10:01:34 PM
Hi Kingspin
I have been playin the G.U.T. for a few months now and I definitely win more than I lose .
Your comments on winning more on some wheels than others are a direct comparison to Sams findings.When the casino he was playin G.U.T. in changed to the Huxley starburst his winning percentage took an almighty nosedive if I remember correctly.It sure is a strange thing to behold!
As Winkel also pointed out ,you have to use a cetain amount of intelligence in the system too .As in ,if the '1's have hit say 4 times in a row then are you prepared to bet them on a fifth consecutive chance?
Regards
The Spiders Kiss
Kingspin Reply's . Spider may i ask if you play rng or live wheels with the gut , my own findings are that the gut seems to work a little better with real wheels. The gut loves air ball :-)
Hi Kingspin
I use the G.U.T. only on live wheels.
I ,like you,dont find it as effective on RNG,s.
Dunno why this should be ,cos it shouldnt make any difference as far as I can see ???
TSK
shouldnt make any difference as far as I can see>>
There's a huge difference. An RNG is manufactored random, a wheel is real. Its like the difference in margerine and real butter.
@all
Winkel don´t have the Knowlegde about my test´s i´ve done.
I play G.U.T this way:
There are
= 0
= 1
> 1
and we only play these Crossings(Equal)
= 0 vs =1
or
= 0 vs >1
or
= 1 vs >1
so there are only these possible outcomes
35/1/1
33/2/2
31/3/3
29/4/4
27/5/5
25/6/6
23/7/7
21/8/8
19/9/9
17/10/10
15/11/11
13/12/12
11/13/13
9/14/14
7/15/15
5/16/16
3/17/17
1/18/18
0/0/37
1/1/35
2/2/33
3/3/31
4/4/29
5/5/27
6/6/25
7/7/23
8/8/21
9/9/19
10/10/17
11/11/15
12/12/13
13/13/11
14/14/9
15/15/7
16/16/5
17/17/3
18/18/1
1/35/1
2/33/2
3/31/3
4/29/4
5/27/5
6/25/6
7/23/7
8/21/8
9/19/9
10/17/10
11/15/11
12/13/12
13/11/13
14/9/14
15/7/15
16/5/16
17/3/17
18/1/18
thats all
it work´s
i´ve started a competition,the winner will take 500€ if he can show me a permanence that was never in plus inbetween
CU
Gerry
Example needed :D
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 15 36 1
2 10 35 2 Bet =1 -2
3 27 34 3
4 34 33 4
5 13 32 5
6 30 31 6
7 29 30 7
8 22 29 8
9 22 29 7 1 1
10 4 28 8 1 1
11 14 27 9 1 1
12 20 26 10 1 1
13 5 25 11 1 1
14 5 25 10 2 2
15 4 25 9 3 3
16 31 24 10 3 3
17 16 23 11 3 3
18 10 23 10 4 4
19 24 22 11 4 4
20 7 21 12 4 4
21 33 20 13 4 4
22 5 20 13 4 3 1
23 30 20 12 5 4 1
24 15 20 11 6 5 1
25 8 19 12 6 5 1
26 4 19 12 6 4 2
27 15 19 12 6 3 3 =2: 10 22 30
28 3 L 18 13 6 3 3 =2: 10 22 30
29 16 L 18 12 7 4 3 =2: 10 16 22 30
30 21 L 17 13 7 4 3 =2: 10 16 22 30
31 7 L 17 12 8 5 3
32 14 17 11 9 6 3 Bet =1 +25 (+23)
33 3 17 10 10 7 3 =1: 8 13 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34
34 22 L 17 10 10 6 4 =1: 8 13 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34
35 3 L 17 10 10 5 5 =1: 8 13 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34
36 17 L 16 11 10 5 5 =1: 8 13 17 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34
37 3 L 16 11 10 5 5 =1: 8 13 17 20 21 24 27 29 31 33 34
38 2 L 15 12 10 5 5 =2: 7 10 14 16 30 Bet =1 -12 (+11)
39 19 L 14 13 10 5 5 =0: 0 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36
40 14 L 14 13 10 4 6 =0: 0 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36
41 15 L 14 13 10 4 6
42 0 13 14 10 4 6 Bet =1 +22(+33)
43 19 13 13 11 5 6 =0: 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 bet =1 -13(+20)
44 3 L 13 13 11 5 6 =0: 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 bet =1 +23(+43)
45 20 L 13 12 12 6 6 =0: 1 6 9 11 12 18 23 25 26 28 32 35 36 bet =0 and =1 +11(+54)
46 23 W 12 13 12 6 6 =1: 0 2 8 13 17 21 23 24 27 29 31 33 34
47 26 L 11 14 12 6 6 =2: 7 10 16 19 20 30 bet =1 -14(+40)
48 3 L 11 14 12 6 6 =2: 7 10 16 19 20 30 bet =1 -14(+26)
CU
Gerry
Quote from: RCEC on January 30, 2009, 07:19:59 AM
@all
Winkel don´t have the Knowlegde about my test´s i´ve done.
I play G.U.T this way:
There are
= 0
= 1
> 1
and we only play these Crossings(Equal)
= 0 vs =1
or
= 0 vs >1
or
= 1 vs >1
so there are only these possible outcomes
35/1/1
33/2/2
31/3/3
29/4/4
27/5/5
25/6/6
23/7/7
21/8/8
19/9/9
17/10/10
15/11/11
13/12/12
11/13/13
9/14/14
7/15/15
5/16/16
3/17/17
1/18/18
0/0/37
1/1/35
2/2/33
3/3/31
4/4/29
5/5/27
6/6/25
7/7/23
8/8/21
9/9/19
10/10/17
11/11/15
12/12/13
13/13/11
14/14/9
15/15/7
16/16/5
17/17/3
18/18/1
1/35/1
2/33/2
3/31/3
4/29/4
5/27/5
6/25/6
7/23/7
8/21/8
9/19/9
10/17/10
11/15/11
12/13/12
13/11/13
14/9/14
15/7/15
16/5/16
17/3/17
18/1/18
thats all
it work´s
i´ve started a competition,the winner will take 500€ if he can show me a permanence that was never in plus inbetween
CU
Gerry
Hi RCEC,
thanks for sharing your personal way to play the G.U.T-method
I think i got your system but could you play one game with the following original numbers of the casino bwin though?(RNG)
Could it be that i would have won the 500?
Would be nice of you
Here it is:
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet
50 29 L * End of Session
49 12 L 11 13 13 6 7
48 32 11 13 13 6 7
47 30 11 14 12 5 7
46 33 W 11 14 12 5 7
45 18 L 12 13 12 5 7 5
44 29 L 12 13 12 6 6
43 36 W 12 13 12 7 5
42 18 L 13 12 12 7 5
41 22 L 13 13 11 6 5
40 2 L 13 13 11 7 4
39 22 13 13 11 7 4
38 26 W 13 14 10 6 4
37 6 14 13 10 6 4
36 11 L 15 12 10 6 4
35 11 L 15 13 9 5 4
34 2 16 12 9 5 4
33 4 16 12 9 6 3
32 23 L 17 11 9 6 3
31 3 18 10 9 6 3
30 16 L 18 11 8 5 3
29 25 18 12 7 4 3
28 22 18 12 7 5 2
27 12 19 11 7 5 2
26 16 19 11 7 6 1
25 20 20 10 7 6 1
24 12 21 9 7 6 1
23 2 21 10 6 5 1
22 27 21 11 5 4 1
21 8 21 12 4 3 1
20 18 22 11 4 3 1
19 34 23 10 4 3 1
18 12 24 9 4 3 1
17 3 25 8 4 3 1
16 0 26 7 4 3 1
15 29 27 6 4 3 1
14 29 27 7 3 2 1
13 27 28 6 3 2 1
12 30 29 5 3 2 1
11 2 29 5 3 3
10 13 30 4 3 3
9 30 30 5 2 2
8 32 30 6 1 1
7 13 31 5 1 1
6 25 32 4 1 1
5 28 32 5
4 25 33 4
3 30 34 3
2 31 35 2
1 1 36 1
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
@spike
Winkel said it could be played on rng or real wheel was the point I was making not the differences between rng and real per se
TSK
So whats the absolute final verdict - this is method effective yes/no ?
Quote from: poit on February 08, 2009, 07:47:53 AM
So whats the absolute final verdict - this is method effective yes/no ?
try it yourself you lazy man ;D ;D ;D
poit
Use the search and put in G.U.T and TwoCatSam. I've played this thing a little.
Sam
TCS Hello, I wanted to know if you've left your game on the GUT, or was only a temporary stop.
Hello
alex00
Alex
I have not given up on the G.U.T. What has happened to me?
Well........
I slowed down while they were remodeling the house. I slowed down more to do some painting. Then the question of whether or not Bella Vegas was an honest casino came up, so I quit entirely to wait for my $500 check. It came and I have deposited it. Then the wife decides to get cancer for a while and we're doing that for the past week. She's cured and coming home in a day or two.
She will be a bear for a few days, but sometime before February is over, I will go back to playing.
Sam
;) Hey Sam,
I'm both happy and relieved that your wife has recovered so well. All the best to you and her. And now you better spoil her!
Cheers mate
Jakk
TCS thanks and best wishes for your wife ...
alex00
Alex
Thank you. She is doing well. How I long for the days I sat and fixated on that Track4 screen.
I'll be back........
Sam
Quote from: poit on February 08, 2009, 07:47:53 AM
So whats the absolute final verdict - this is method effective yes/no ?
Yes, it works, but you need a large bankroll. TwoCat did it with $200, but from my experience it falters with less than about $1K.
Guys
I am anxious to return to G.U.T.land and see if it was all luck. I've been gone since Jan, 13 or somewhere around there. I am still aiming to hit $2,000 before I testify.
I'll say this much: I'm a hell of a lot more confident about the G.U.T. than I am about Obama's stimulus package. The U.S.A. is actually playing the Martingale.
Sam
Quote from: RCEC on January 30, 2009, 07:19:59 AM
@all
Winkel don´t have the Knowlegde about my test´s i´ve done.
I play G.U.T this way:
There are
= 0
= 1
> 1
and we only play these Crossings(Equal)
= 0 vs =1
or
= 0 vs >1
or
= 1 vs >1
so there are only these possible outcomes
35/1/1
33/2/2
31/3/3
29/4/4
27/5/5
25/6/6
23/7/7
21/8/8
19/9/9
17/10/10
15/11/11
13/12/12
11/13/13
9/14/14
7/15/15
5/16/16
3/17/17
1/18/18
0/0/37
1/1/35
2/2/33
3/3/31
4/4/29
5/5/27
6/6/25
7/7/23
8/8/21
9/9/19
10/10/17
11/11/15
12/12/13
13/13/11
14/14/9
15/15/7
16/16/5
17/17/3
18/18/1
1/35/1
2/33/2
3/31/3
4/29/4
5/27/5
6/25/6
7/23/7
8/21/8
9/19/9
10/17/10
11/15/11
12/13/12
13/11/13
14/9/14
15/7/15
16/5/16
17/3/17
18/1/18
thats all
it work´s
i´ve started a competition,the winner will take 500€ if he can show me a permanence that was never in plus inbetween
CU
Gerry
RCEC... i have two strings to you of a live casino, like the play?
the first:
3
20
4
19
33
15
15
15
3
0
13
7
1
11
33
17
33
35
28
26
35
32
9
9
31
26
6
24
30
16
24
16
32
30
7
28
34
3
18
30
0
30
15
15
1
21
The second:
12
34
29
34
14
23
5
25
9
17
19
0
12
2
0
25
36
25
14
2
30
10
4
34
30
23
31
35
19
32
31
31
9
24
22
10
16
12
32
24
29
34
30
12
16
Can you show me ?
Thanks
alexoo
This is how RCEC would bet.
As I told you, he is here as long as his samples work. He is lost as soon as it tanks.
You can´t play this way exclusively, you can only add it to the normal G.U.T - rules
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 3 36 1
2 20 35 2 [highlight]playing for 35 1 1[/highlight]
3 4 34 3
4 19 33 4
5 33 32 5
6 15 31 6
7 15 31 5 1
8 15 31 5 1
9 3 31 4 2
10 0 30 5 2
11 13 29 6 2
12 7 28 7 2
13 1 27 8 2
14 11 26 9 2
15 33 26 8 3
16 17 25 9 3
17 33 25 9 3
18 35 24 10 3
19 28 23 11 3
20 26 22 12 3
21 35 22 11 4
22 32 21 12 4
23 9 20 13 4
24 9 20 12 5
25 31 19 13 5
26 26 L 19 12 6
27 6 18 13 6
28 24 17 14 6
29 30 16 15 6
30 16 W 15 16 6 [highlight]playing for 15 15 [/highlight]
31 24 15 15 7
32 16 L 15 14 8
33 32 L 15 13 9 [highlight]playing for 14 14[/highlight]
34 30 15 12 10 [highlight]playing for 15 11 11[/highlight]
35 7 15 11 11
36 28 W 15 10 12
37 34 L 14 11 12 [highlight]playing for 13 12 12[/highlight]
38 3 L 14 11 12 [highlight]playing for 13 12 12[/highlight]
39 18 13 12 12
40 30 L 13 12 12 [highlight]playing for 13 11 13[/highlight]
41 0 L 13 11 13
42 30 L 13 11 13 [highlight]playing for 12 12 13[/highlight]
43 15 L 13 11 13 [highlight]playing for 12 12 13[/highlight]
44 15 13 11 13 [highlight]playing for 12 12 13[/highlight]
45 1 13 10 14
46 21 L 12 11 14
Windows based Graphical User Interface Great Universal Theory Tracker:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/alarian's-lair/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/alarian's-lair/)
Check it out!
ref: TCS restarting his tests and alex0 loss of 2000 units
There is a gap between these two guys, one heading the 2000+ and one is at 2000-
This forces me to give another statement:
The basic rules of G.U.T just show how to find a reliable situation in the upcoming spins.
The "clinical rules" shall lead any interested people to "watch what is going on"
In an experienced state of using the game like TCS is obviously in, there will be formed some decisions by the player which are not mentioned in the "clinical rules". TCS is using some e.g. 10 17 9 betting to 10 16 10 to come up. similiar to the strategy by RCEC.
This is not wrong! This is not against any rules!
[highlight]any bet is possible and allowed as the players experience gives him a hint[/highlight]
This makes G.U.T (remember the name) to a kind of "OPEN SOURCE"
Once you´ve learned to sing the melody the spins are whistling, you got the point.
Start the game whereever you want.
Stop the game wherever you want.
If you are in a losing streak, just jump to where ever you feel comfortable.
Pick up the next possible crossing.
Bet on the chance that a crossing might appear
Bet on the chance that a crossing might cross
Bet on the chance a crossing might disappear.
Bet on the most possible chance which group might move to.
At least you will be possible to bet nearly every spin and to stop your game after 20-30 spins with a gain of more than 100 units.
The basic watching of the groups 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3 (and so on) to build a crossing and to cross at some spin is whole "Holy Grail"
It just needs to start with betting the crossings only. The other bet-points triggers and hints will appear by themselves.
You just have to make your experiences.
br
winkel
winkel
As always, thanks for your input. My wife is better, my painting is almost done and for a while I will have an hour or so each day to play.
Sam
Great post Winkel.
Regards,
Marven
I am an unlucky player, but I am lucky in love .... :)
Winkel, many times I re-read the many pages of GUT, I have done numerous tests with no money and I was winning a lot. When I started playing in live money, I found an incredible number of stays!
You have the latest that I have remained in Track4 so we can discuss them together.
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 30 36 1
2 15 35 2
3 22 34 3
4 18 33 4
5 5 32 5
6 0 31 6
7 23 30 7
8 23 30 6 1 1
9 13 29 7 1 1
10 10 28 8 1 1
11 14 27 9 1 1
12 13 27 8 2 2
13 18 27 7 3 3
14 29 26 8 3 3
15 20 25 9 3 3
16 8 24 10 3 3
17 5 24 9 4 4
18 23 24 9 4 3 1
19 27 23 10 4 3 1
20 22 23 9 5 4 1
21 31 22 10 5 4 1
22 1 21 11 5 4 1
23 4 20 12 5 4 1
24 5 20 12 5 3 2
25 23 20 12 5 3 2 =2: 13 18 22 3 -3
26 8 L 20 11 6 4 2 -3
27 23 20 11 6 4 2
28 22 20 11 6 3 3 =2: 8 13 18 3 -6
29 5 L 20 11 6 3 3 =2: 8 13 18 3 -9
30 20 L 20 10 7 4 3 =2: 8 13 18 20 4 -13
31 1 L 20 9 8 5 3 =1: 0 4 10 14 15 27 29 30 31 9 -22
32 23 L 20 9 8 5 3 =1: 0 4 10 14 15 27 29 30 31 9 -31
33 13 L 20 9 8 4 4 =1: 0 4 10 14 15 27 29 30 31 9 -40
34 6 L 19 10 8 4 4 =2: 1 8 18 20 4 -44
35 21 L 18 11 8 4 4 =2: 1 8 18 20 4 -48
36 24 L 17 12 8 4 4 =2: 1 8 18 20 4 -52
37 15 L 17 11 9 5 4 =2: 1 8 15 18 20 5 -57
38 26 L 16 12 9 5 4 =2: 1 8 15 18 20 5 -62
39 32 L 15 13 9 5 4 =2: 1 8 15 18 20 5 -67
40 0 L 15 12 10 6 4 -67
41 31 15 11 11 7 4 =1: 4 6 10 14 21 24 26 27 29 30 32 11 -78
42 2 L 14 12 11 7 4 =1: 2 4 6 10 14 21 24 26 27 29 30 32 12 -90
43 19 L 13 13 11 7 4 =0: 3 7 9 11 12 16 17 25 28 33 34 35 36 13 -103
44 21 L 13 12 12 8 4 =0: No play
45 31 L 13 12 12 7 5 =0: No play
46 22 L 13 12 12 7 5 =0: No play
47 14 L 13 11 13 8 5 =0: 3 7 9 11 12 16 17 25 28 33 34 35 36 13 -116
48 14 L 13 11 13 7 6 =0: 3 7 9 11 12 16 17 25 28 33 34 35 36 13 -129
49 20 L 13 11 13 6 7
50 17 * End of Session
Another session...
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 20 36 1
2 1 35 2
3 23 34 3
4 13 33 4
5 6 32 5
6 21 31 6
7 24 30 7
8 15 29 8
9 26 28 9
10 32 27 10
11 0 26 11
12 31 25 12
13 2 24 13
14 19 23 14
15 21 23 13 1 1
16 31 23 12 2 2
17 22 22 13 2 2
18 14 21 14 2 2
19 14 21 13 3 3
20 20 21 12 4 4
21 17 20 13 4 4
22 28 19 14 4 4
23 28 19 13 5 5
24 17 19 12 6 6
25 16 18 13 6 6
26 18 17 14 6 6
27 30 16 15 6 6 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 34 35 36 16 -16
28 34 W 15 16 6 6 +20
29 36 14 17 6 6
30 14 14 17 6 5 1
31 1 14 16 7 6 1
32 36 14 15 8 7 1
33 26 14 14 9 8 1 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 +6
34 20 L 14 14 9 7 2 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -8
35 21 L 14 14 9 6 3
36 24 14 13 10 7 3
37 26 L 14 13 10 6 4
38 34 L 14 12 11 7 4 =1: 0 2 6 13 15 16 18 19 22 23 30 32 12 -44
39 32 W 14 11 12 8 4 -8
40 0 14 10 13 9 4 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -44
41 21 L 14 10 13 9 4 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -80
42 25 W 13 11 13 9 4 -44
43 13 L 13 10 14 10 4 =1: 2 6 15 16 18 19 22 23 25 30 10 -54
44 20 L 13 10 14 10 4 =1: 2 6 15 16 18 19 22 23 25 30 10 -64
45 20 L 13 10 14 10 4 =1: 2 6 15 16 18 19 22 23 25 30 10 -74
46 17 L 13 10 14 9 5
47 24 13 10 14 8 6
48 14 13 10 14 8 6
49 4 12 11 14 8 6 =0: 3 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 27 29 33 35 12 -86
50 1 L * End of Session
Another...
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 28 36 1
2 17 35 2
3 16 34 3
4 18 33 4
5 30 32 5
6 34 31 6
7 36 30 7
8 14 29 8
9 1 28 9
10 36 28 8 1 1
11 26 27 9 1 1
12 20 26 10 1 1
13 21 25 11 1 1
14 24 24 12 1 1
15 26 24 11 2 2
16 34 24 10 3 3
17 32 23 11 3 3
18 0 22 12 3 3
19 21 22 11 4 4
20 25 21 12 4 4
21 13 20 13 4 4
22 20 20 12 5 5
23 20 20 12 5 4 1
24 17 20 11 6 5 1
25 24 20 10 7 6 1
26 14 20 9 8 7 1 =1: 0 1 13 16 18 25 28 30 32 9 -9
27 4 L 19 10 8 7 1 -9
28 1 19 9 9 8 1 =1: 0 4 13 16 18 25 28 30 32 9 -18
29 12 L 18 10 9 8 1 =1: 0 4 12 13 16 18 25 28 30 32 10 -28
30 10 L 17 11 9 8 1 -28
31 14 17 11 9 7 2
32 30 17 10 10 8 2 =1: 0 4 10 12 13 16 18 25 28 32 10 -38
33 33 L 16 11 10 8 2 =1: 0 4 10 12 13 16 18 25 28 32 33 11 -49
34 10 W 16 10 11 9 2 =1: 0 4 12 13 16 18 25 28 32 33 10 -23
35 5 L 15 11 11 9 2 =1: 0 4 5 12 13 16 18 25 28 32 33 11 -34
36 10 L 15 11 11 8 3 =1: 0 4 5 12 13 16 18 25 28 32 33 11 -45
37 28 W 15 10 12 9 3 =1: 0 4 5 12 13 16 18 25 32 33 10 -19
38 35 L 14 11 12 9 3 -19
39 19 13 12 12 9 3 =0: 2 3 6 7 8 9 11 15 22 23 27 29 31 13 -32
40 24 L 13 12 12 8 4 =0: 2 3 6 7 8 9 11 15 22 23 27 29 31 13 -45
41 26 L 13 12 12 7 5
42 20 L 13 12 12 7 5
43 2 W 12 13 12 7 5 =1: 0 2 4 5 12 13 16 18 19 25 32 33 35 13 -58
44 17 L 12 13 12 6 6 =1: 0 2 4 5 12 13 16 18 19 25 32 33 35 13 -71
45 21 L 12 13 12 5 7
46 26 L 12 13 12 5 7
alex00
Hi alex,
do you want it explained on GUTCBA- or tracker4-results?
your first trot:
your first trigger dies
your second trigger dies
your third trigger dies
do you wanna ride this dead horse home to spin 50?
you are now at spin 33 and lost 40 units.
1. decision possible: bet the next trigger to die
2. decision possible: jump back or stop betting at all, because this is not your trot!
-1. we would lose this change of strategy as well. and the main trigger died as well, what ever we did was wrong. It is defnitely time to jump
-2. if we had been so wise to jump at once: (I use the step20 of tracker4)
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 29 36 1
2 20 35 2
3 8 34 3
4 5 33 4
5 23 32 5
6 27 31 6
7 22 30 7
8 31 29 8
9 1 28 9
10 4 27 10
11 5 27 9 1 1
12 23 27 8 2 2
13 8 27 7 3 3
14 23 27 7 3 2 1
15 22 27 6 4 3 1
16 5 27 6 4 2 2
17 20 27 5 5 3 2 =1: 1 4 27 29 31 5 -5
18 1 W 27 4 6 4 2 =1: 4 27 29 31 4 +27
19 23 L 27 4 6 4 2 =1: 4 27 29 31 4 +23
20 13 L 26 5 6 4 2 =1: 4 13 27 29 31 5 +18
21 6 L 25 6 6 4 2 =1: 4 6 13 27 29 31 6 +12
22 21 L 24 7 6 4 2 =1: 4 6 13 21 27 29 31 7 +5
23 24 L 23 8 6 4 2 +5
24 15 22 9 6 4 2
25 26 21 10 6 4 2
26 32 20 11 6 4 2
27 0 19 12 6 4 2
28 31 19 11 7 5 2
29 2 18 12 7 5 2
30 19 17 13 7 5 2
31 21 17 12 8 6 2
32 31 17 12 8 5 3
33 22 17 12 8 4 4 =2: 1 8 20 21 4 +1
34 14 L 16 13 8 4 4 =2: 1 8 20 21 4 -3
35 14 L 16 12 9 5 4 =2: 1 8 14 20 21 5 -8
36 20 W 16 12 9 4 5 +28
37 17 15 13 9 4 5
If we had jumped back after we had another loss on the bet against the trigger and had jumped back then
that means jump back after spin 35
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 8 36 1
2 5 35 2
3 23 34 3
4 27 33 4
5 22 32 5
6 31 31 6
7 1 30 7
8 4 29 8
9 5 29 7 1 1
10 23 29 6 2 2
11 8 29 5 3 3
12 23 29 5 3 2 1
13 22 29 4 4 3 1 =1: 1 4 27 31 4 -4
14 5 L 29 4 4 2 2 =1: 1 4 27 31 4 -8
15 20 L 28 5 4 2 2 =1: 1 4 20 27 31 5 -13
16 1 W 28 4 5 3 2 =1: 4 20 27 31 4 +19
17 23 L 28 4 5 3 2 =1: 4 20 27 31 4 +15
18 13 L 27 5 5 3 2 =1: 4 13 20 27 31 5 +10
19 6 L 26 6 5 3 2 =1: 4 6 13 20 27 31 6 +4
20 21 L 25 7 5 3 2 +4
21 24 24 8 5 3 2
22 15 23 9 5 3 2
23 26 22 10 5 3 2
24 32 21 11 5 3 2
25 0 20 12 5 3 2 =2: 1 8 22 3 +1
26 31 L 20 11 6 4 2 +1
27 2 19 12 6 4 2
28 19 18 13 6 4 2
29 21 18 12 7 5 2
30 31 18 12 7 4 3 =2: 1 8 21 22 4 -3
31 22 W 18 12 7 3 4 +33
32 14 17 13 7 3 4
33 14 17 12 8 4 4 =2: 1 8 14 21 4 +29
34 20 L 17 11 9 5 4 =2: 1 8 14 20 21 5 +24
35 17 L 16 12 9 5 4 =2: 1 8 14 20 21 5 +19
your second example:
Here is something wrong at spin 40 (-8-14 = -22 not -44 nad this -14 is not -80) ? ?
38 34 L 14 12 11 7 4 =1: 0 2 6 13 15 16 18 19 22 23 30 32 12 -44
39 32 W 14 11 12 8 4 -8
40 0 14 10 13 9 4 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -44
41 21 L 14 10 13 9 4 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -80
42 25 W 13 11 13 9 4 -44
43 13 L 13 10 14 10 4 =1: 2 6 15 16 18 19 22 23 25 30 10 -54
Quote from: Winkel on February 18, 2009, 04:27:38 PM
your second example:
Here is something wrong at spin 40 (-8-14 = -22 not -44 nad this -14 is not -80) ? ?
38 34 L 14 12 11 7 4 =1: 0 2 6 13 15 16 18 19 22 23 30 32 12 -44
39 32 W 14 11 12 8 4 -8
40 0 14 10 13 9 4 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -44
41 21 L 14 10 13 9 4 =0: 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 25 27 29 33 35 14 -80
42 25 W 13 11 13 9 4 -44
43 13 L 13 10 14 10 4 =1: 2 6 15 16 18 19 22 23 25 30 10 -54
Winkel, excuse but I have take the numbers in Track4 (result.txt) and put in Gutcba and I have rewritten the numbers that I played.
I often I jump back, but I happened on the next sequence that I wore to the loss.
Also, do not play more than two times the same column if I won or lost two shots.
Many times the crossing 0 = 1 I had to bet there was also the crossing 2> 2. Happened that a 2>2 have a hit and not 0 = 1.
However, I read your suggestions with great interest.
Hello
alex00
A comment......
While I greatly respect KFS and his abilities, for me the Track4 is the only way to go. Once you learn this little program, you can see crossing coming from four spins away. My mind is so accustomed to it, I felt perfectly natural after being gone from it for 32 days. Like riding a bicycle.....
Sam
I think I might be on to something,
but really it's a bit early to say... ::)
Check out my analyzing thread (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/alarian's-lair/analyzing-learning-mastering-the-g-u-t/) :thumbsup:
This strategy is much simplier as most of you think.
Imagine you are in a country you have never been before. You have no tourist guidance you jus don´t know where you are. It seems you are somewhere on a unknown planet. You have to find your way and you have to describe area.
You are moving cross the country and there is a tree. Would you describe: There are always trees beside the road!?
After ten miles there is another tree: Would you describe: There is one tree every 10 miles?
After 5 miles there are two trees: would you describe: If there is a tree after 5 miles there are always two of them?
After 15 miles there is a wood. How changes your description now?
You passed the wood and there appears som kind of rocky mountains. After a wood there is always a Rocky Mountain?
After the rockys there is a desert. What is your conclusion? After there had been some single trees there will be some twin-trees and then a wood and then some Rockys and then a desert? What about a lake somewhere? a lake in a wood? or a lake in the desert (with a wood and some single trees) or a lake in the valley of some Rockys? and trees on a hill?
So what should we do? We can only describe what is going on now. After a while we know: Everything can happen. There will be trees and no trees and trees at a lake and on a hill etc.
The country we are riding has 37 possible things to appear. If we ride 37 miles we only meet 24 of them. the next 37 miles wil have the same sight or a completely other.
what we just know is the farther we go on our trip the more things will appear until we have seen all! As long as we cut in the route into 37-miles-trips we will have a average of apearances. And we can feel save knowing that.
Kon-Fu-Sed is right, when he says and proofs: after 100 000 000 tries there will be always the same conclusion or result: -2,7%
But that is what makes us safe and confident to reach the end of our daily trip through this unknown country.
we just have to open our eyes. Of course there could be 74 miles no tree just desert. But we can prepare for this, can´t we?
And what we know is, that this country-side doesn´t change from one second to another. Coming from a wood trees will disappear slowly until we see no more trees. This could lead us to a sea a very high mountain or a desert.
If we are approaching a sea we will get wet feet.
If we are aproaching a mountain the way will get steep.
If we are approaching a deseert it will get hot.
Moving through this unknown country like this, will give us hint what could be around the next corner.
Now back to roulette:
What we see is the first spin at a table:
It tells us nothing about the countryside we are entering.
Even after the second, third spin we just don´t know what will be next.
The "dark side" calls it "the independent trials"
As I said before: When we stop for a BBQ after we have done a third of our daily trip, we can do some predictions of the kind of area we are in:
This means: after 13 of 37 spins. So waht can happen:
We have seen a new number in every spin.
Creating our map it will say: 24 of our possible landmarks haven´t shown up, 13 did, and none showed up twice.
But we have been to areas, where 27 didn´t show up, 7 twice and 3 more than twice.
After some hundered rides through our country we will know this e.g.
24 1439
25 4552
26 5468
27 3255
28 1066
29 180
30 19
31 3
mostly there will be 10 to 12 different landmarks on our first 13 miles.
after 25 miles we will know that there came up another 8 new landmarks in the last 12 spins
after 37 miles we will know that there came up another 6 new landmarks in the last 12 spins
after 50 miles we know that there will have been another 4 new landmarks in the last 13 spins.
If we stretch this we will come to Binomial Distribution.
If we mark our next BBQ at spin 25 and spin 37 we will find some "order"
After 37 miles we also know what we have seen the last 24 and the last 13 miles. didn´t we? so we could be able to see what will come up the next 13 or 25 miles.
This is what I call: "Watch what is going on!"
Otherwise you would drown in a sea, get lost in the woods or freeze on a hill or get dried out in the desert.
If we use the crossings from the Binomial-Distribution we have a fourth hint what is going on.
So what do we need IRON RULES for?
To mislead us?
You can´t turn left at every tree you see.
You can´t go straight if you reached the top of a mountain.
You can´t stop and wait if you are in the middle of a desert.
You have to make decisions at every landmark. The decision depends on the way you have walked til this point.
If I had started this thread just saying count the "0" "1" "2" and so on and play on either of them, all would have laughed at me.
So I took one very easy to see and to find landmark: A crossing.
The "0" is a way we know it will end because it is heading to Zero. Sometimes fast and sometimes slow.
The "=x" are some kind of hills on our way we are going up and down antil the way ends at "no more left"
The ">x" are mountains in the distance we will approach to
If the "0" are falling and the "1" are climbing they both have to meet at a point. If we watch the way we will be able to predict this point.
If the "0" stop falling so the "1" stop climbing and might start falling.
If the "1" start falling the ">1" have to start climbing.
Just follow it and make a new decision, where the way changes (you lose your prediction)
If we go
19 12
18 13
17 14
why not predict
16 15
15 16
If we lose our first prediction we just stop and look around where the way could lead to.
what we know:
If we have to select 15 out of 37 possible ways we will be right 15 times and will be wrong 22 times.
What do you do in real live, when you see that everything is going wrong? Stick on the way you´re on?
Or do you sit down and change your plans?
you are sure, there will be a street, where your most decision are right. and this way you keep on walking.
don´t walk 200 miles a day. you will get rired and your decisions will be wrong more and more.
don´t walke ahead, when your feet are wet or you are getting a sun-burn.
If your are climbing a mountain, don´t walk to far with no rests.
Just stop making wrong decisions. You can be sure of making right decisions again.
So don´t watch for Iron Rules, there is no strategy with iron rules that will win long-term.
But watch the countryside you are in and you wouldn´t try to swim in the desert, you wouldn´t try to find a tree in the middle of a lake to rest under it, You wouldn´t jump form mountain-peak to mountain-peak as you jump from one side of a path to the other.
I think I'm the only one who read all that but point made :thumbsup:
Use the Force Luke! :o
What about Iron rules how to watch countryside?
Hi BooRay
The Iron Rules of Chess don´t make you win!
the decisions you make during the ongoing game make you win.
br
winkel
Quote from: Winkel on February 20, 2009, 05:07:12 PM
the decisions you make during the ongoing game make you win.
winkel
Which brings me to this. After testing this system over the months, GUT is at its optimum at 100 spins per day, after that winnings become fewer.
This has to be the most viewed and posted thread ive ever seen :) :thumbsup:
poit
What a compliment to winkel.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on February 22, 2009, 11:40:01 AM
poit
What a compliment to winkel.
Sam
Can't tell if your been sarcastic or not ? hehe
poit
I'm sincere! People just can't leave the thread alone. They know there is something there.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on February 22, 2009, 12:50:51 PM
poit
I'm sincere! People just can't leave the thread alone. They know there is something there.
Sam
Its like cleavage that people can touch with no slaps to the face.
This thread is silly and dominated by ignorance.
Quote from: Herb on February 23, 2009, 09:02:38 PM
This thread is silly and dominated by ignorance.
You are talking of yourself, aren´t you?
Quote from: Winkel on February 23, 2009, 09:50:06 PM
You are talking of yourself, aren´t you?
Good job on this thread/system mate, do you have any graphs you could part with?
Regards
Pete
pls see "testing Zone" "Testing G.U.T
br
winkel
Hi, I'm new here and I'm very interesting by this system.
I'm impressive to see the results posted by Winkel in Testing Zone.
I read the first pages of this topic and I understand the basics of this system. Now, I think the game settings are much advanced over the pages. So what I want to know is if there is a page that explains how to play this system as you do now?
And also, which software do you use most often?
Thank you. ;)
Thank you Number Six but I can't download the application and I don't know why... Try to see.
Hi Nherisson
As Six points out there have been some great videos done.
But also you should take the time to read this thread through again and again until you pick up the nuances explained within.
Winkel and Sam are always only too glad to help new G.U.T.'ites
Regards
TSK
Thanks Number Six! ;)
And what about this software G.U.T. C B A? What are the difference between this one and track4.exe? Which is the best one?
How do you decide to bet when there are more than one crossing?
Thank you.
Hi Nherrisson,
some complain this thread is too long.
Why is it so long? Because I answered the same questions over and over again.
So, to not prolong this thread more and more, please read.
The GUTCBA is for fast testing and learning. Pls read instructions.
Tracker4.exe is for betting at OCs
br
winkel
Try my modified Diodoro system. It's much easier to use and just as effective if not better. This is too confusing. Mind boggling.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/rpro-systems/diodoro's-system-with-a-twist (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/rpro-systems/diodoro's-system-with-a-twist)!/
Quote from: GARNabby on March 18, 2009, 01:05:31 AM
Just sending out a few feelers here to see what I can learn (to apply to baccarat,) w/o having to go through thousands of posts. Which are your best tips to beat roulette? Which systems work consistently for everyone? Is anyone consistently beating the game? :o
Sincerely, Mark.
In this is nothing you can apply to Baccarat.
This strategy is the best tip to beat roulette.
This strategy is working consistently fo everyone.
This is consistently beating the game.
any mor questions?
br
winkel
Because these crossings have to appear, which is basic to this strategy, I was thinking about a solution of winning every started game.
This can only be done with a progression and an equivalent bankroll.
We need minimum 1 crossing to cross.
or
We need one crossing to cross in every group-crossing. This means:
We don´t target to any one crossing to cross but to hit a crossing in every possible seletion:
0vs1
0vs>1
0vs2
1vs>1
1vs2
and all the other possible crossing-positions.
please remember: there is nearly no example where no crossing is possible.
br
winkel
Hello winkel
I hope you are healthy!
I have studied on this and I wonder........
Say you are betting 0 vs 1. As you know this crossing could be 17 numbers or 12 or even less if you choose to go that far. So....how would you figure a progression when you don't know how many numbers you will be betting? Would it be a "per-number" progression? I'd need a computer program to figure that for me in time to bet.
What are your thoughts?
Sam
units lost/possible gain
-50 units/26 units possible gain (on a 10 number bet for example) = 2 units
bet 2 units on all 10 number for a 52 units gain
Hi kompressor,
yes, that is the main idea!
I will make a progression-chart and explain it. Need some days for it.
br
winkel
winkel
Thank you for that work!
Sam
[table=,]loss , 17 , 16 , 15 , 14 , 13 , 12 , 11 , 10 , 9 , 8 , 7 , 6 , 5 , 4 , 3 , 2 , 1
34 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1 , 1
35 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1
36 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
37 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
38 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
39 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
40 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
41 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
42 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
43 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
44 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
45 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
46 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
47 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
48 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
49 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
50 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
51 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
52 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
53 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
54 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
55 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
56 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
57 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
58 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
59 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
60 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
61 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
62 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
63 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
64 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2
65 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2
66 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 2
67 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2
68 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2 , 2
69 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2
70 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 2
71 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
72 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
73 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
74 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
75 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
76 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
77 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
78 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
79 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
80 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
81 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
82 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
83 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
84 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
85 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
86 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
87 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
88 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
89 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
90 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
91 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
92 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
93 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
94 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
95 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
96 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3 , 3
97 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3
98 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3
99 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3
100 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3
101 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3
102 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 3
103 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3
104 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3
105 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 3
106 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
107 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
108 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
109 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
110 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
111 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
112 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
113 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
114 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
115 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
116 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
117 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
118 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
119 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
120 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
121 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
122 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
123 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
124 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
125 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
126 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
127 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
128 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4 , 4
129 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4
130 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4
131 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4
132 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 4
133 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4
134 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4
135 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4
136 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 4
137 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
138 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
139 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
140 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 4
141 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
142 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
143 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
144 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
145 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
146 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
147 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
148 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
149 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
150 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
151 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
152 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
153 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
154 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
155 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
156 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
157 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
158 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
159 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
160 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5 , 5
161 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5
162 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5
163 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5
164 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5
165 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5 , 5
166 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5
167 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5
168 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5
169 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5
170 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 5
171 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5
172 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5
173 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5
174 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5
175 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 5
176 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
177 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
178 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
179 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
180 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
181 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
182 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
183 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
184 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
185 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
186 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
187 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
188 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
189 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
190 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
191 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
192 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 6
193 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6
194 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6
195 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6
196 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6
197 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6
198 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6 , 6
199 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6
200 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6
201 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6
202 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6
203 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6
204 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6 , 6
205 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6
206 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6
207 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6
208 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6
209 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6
210 , 12 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 6
211 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
212 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
213 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
214 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
215 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
216 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
217 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
218 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
219 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
220 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
221 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
222 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
223 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
224 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7 , 7
225 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
226 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
227 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
228 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
229 , 13 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
230 , 13 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
231 , 13 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7 , 7
232 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
233 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
234 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
235 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
236 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
237 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
238 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7 , 7
239 , 13 , 12 , 12 , 11 , 11 , 10 , 10 , 10 , 9 , 9 , 9 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 8 , 7
[/table]
pls read this table:
first column the units you have lost. (started with 34 which means two times lost 17 units)
next we have to bet 15 numbers
Go to the right to col. 15 and see that you have to bet 2 units on each of the 15 numbers to get into Plus.
you have lost 200 units
next to bet 8 numbers
you have to bet 8 units on each number
br
winkel
winkel
I'm amazed! Thanks so much for all that hard work. I will try it.
Sam
As I mentioned we have two chances to use this progression:
either we progress throug the whole trot
or we just progress "0" with the loss on "0"-bets and progress "1" with the loss on "1"-bets etc.
But be very carefull! If you run into a losing streak it kills you in a minute.
Use the Jump-Option to get away from this.
br
winkel
Hello Winkel,
I agree with you.if you lose a string of bets,its spells trouble 8)
If you jump there might be a good chance to turn the tables
hi winkel
can you put a download link for this chart ??
thanks
(i've tried copy and paste but dont work)
Just to touch base, the G.U.T. is now on the upswing again. I will not rejoin the testing thread until I'm back where I left off.
Here is the download of my excel-sheet
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 24, 2009, 11:12:39 PM
Just to touch base, the G.U.T. is now on the upswing again. I will not rejoin the testing thread until I'm back where I left off.
Hi TCS,
it would be nice, if you just give us the results of your games every other day
br
winkel
winkel
I will give you a short version. I went all the way down to $63 and am now at $467.
I got "creative" with my betting and bet some crossings I should not have. I spent over a month away from the game doing painting remodeling. The wife had surgery and more. Bella Vegas would not let me on for over two weeks, so I went to their RNG. I played a Martingale. I bet the 19 number crossing. I got mad and tried to force wins. I tried another system and lost $200 of G.U.T. earned money, so I am making the G.U.T. pay for other mistakes.
None of the above is the fault of the G.U.T. It is the "Perfect Looser" mentality I have to fight daily to keep from making foolish decisions.
So at $63, I started making .50 bets and adhered to the "iron-clad rules ;)) and what do you know??? The G.U.T began that steady upswing!
I STILL HAVE NOT LOST A DOLLAR WITH THE G.U.T. The commercial for winkel so he can sell give away more of these systems: I've tested a ton of systems in the days I've been into roulette and I've never seen anything win the way this does over an extended period of time. You could spend your free time in worse ways than learning the G.U.T.
As you wish, I will continue to post my daily trots under the testing post.
Sam
Hi TCS,
nice news!
I lost my tracker4.exe during a head-crash of my system. an I found it is not available in the download-area.
could you be so kind (as a mod) to put the tracker back to the download-area?
thanks for your work
br
winkel
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 25, 2009, 10:58:10 AM
It is the "Perfect loser" mentality I have to fight daily to keep from making foolish decisions.
i feel like that everyday
Kompressor
How do we overcome this demon? I just can't seem to do what I know works and leave the "gambling" out of it.
Sam
Hello everyone,
I am arrived at page 40. I will come friends.
I hope to join you and help you if I can.
In the meantime, congratulations to Winkel and stakeholders who are positive on this post. :thumbsup:
(Sorry for my bad English)
PapyRox
Who put you in that jar, Papy?
Hello Sam,
The jar is the jail of my passion.
The interior it's me. ;)
PapyRox
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 25, 2009, 10:33:06 PM
Kompressor
How do we overcome this demon? I just can't seem to do what I know works and leave the "gambling" out of it.
Sam
I thought I was the only one lol ;D I do know its not a laughting matter its a seriours matter well it is too me.
from my past experience I cannot control myself and I see something and just throw a chip on it, then ill see something else bet a chip on that and something else and I cannot SNAP OUT OF IT (probably because you are losing the winnings from playing a good system at the start of the session)
I just wish there was something to stop me from being the PERFECT LOSER.
im saying I find it the hardest to control my betting when playing roulette, no many of you can be worse than me I assure you that. im getting better tho.
HOW DO WE GET RID OF THE DEMON >:D
AND BRING YOURSELF THE PROFEESSIONAL 8) TO THE TABLE
IF I CAN CONTROL THE DEMON ILL BE SUCCESSFULL IM SURE OF IT.
p.s the last time I did this was when I painted for 2 weeks 10 days work for £250 and I ended up im the bookmakers putting 20 notes in the electronic roulette I was very lucky to walk out with my bus fair home and £25 I owed my dad (if it was friend I would of used that as well)
mattjono
Quote from: MATTJONO on March 28, 2009, 04:23:28 PM
I thought I was the only one lol ;D I do know its not a laughting matter its a seriours matter well it is too me.
from my past experience I cannot control myself and I see something and just throw a chip on it, then ill see something else bet a chip on that and something else and I cannot SNAP OUT OF IT (probably because I lost the winnings from playing a good system)
I just wish there was something to stop me from being the PERFECT LOSER.
im saying I find it the hardest to control my betting when playing roulette, no many of you can be worse than me I assure you that. im getting better tho.
HOW DO WE GET RID OF THE DEMON >:D
AND BRING YOURSELF THE PROFEESSIONAL 8) TO THE TABLE
IF I CAN CONTROL THE DEMON ILL BE SUCCESSFULL IM SURE OF IT.
Self hypnosis will train your mind to be more composed,patient and controlled at roulette.
P.S, hypnosis is veiwed as a bad thing by alot of people and probaly the most mis-understood thing out there. its not what you think ;)
Quote from: MATTJONO on March 28, 2009, 04:23:28 PMfrom my past experience I cannot control myself and I see something and just throw a chip on it, then ill see something else bet a chip on that and something else and I cannot SNAP OUT OF IT (probably because I lost the winnings from playing a good system)
Instead of just "throwing a chip on it", write down what you would of done instead. And at the end of the night, you will have a record of what you
would have lost! And extra chips in your pocket. ;)
limpIN, cheers m8.
could you please p.m me some more details on how i would go about doing this.
cheers
mattjono
Quote from: Lohnro on March 28, 2009, 04:34:55 PM
Instead of just "throwing a chip on it", write down what you would of done instead. And at the end of the night, you will have a record of what you would have lost! And extra chips in your pocket. ;)
wont be playing for real for a while and i defanatly cannot do this for play money im not in same frame of mind.
but the next time i play live at betfread.com ill try to stick to a system and record on paper what i would of bet. ( probably would of been +1,000 units lol knowing my luck)
cheers lohnro
MATTJONO,
Whatever system you use it MUST have a minimum loss strategy. Whenever I have a loss I really do say that was a good
loss, as I will have weighed up all the available info from the session and will exit the session at say approx -50 or 3/4 units
on the even bets.
That is the problem with progressions, as they can really get out of hand. You end up thinking if I bet just one more time I may
recover my loss and perhaps be up a few units. Totally the wrong way to think and no professional could possibly last long acting
in this most unproductive way.
Mr Chips
Quote from: MATTJONO on March 28, 2009, 04:35:40 PM
limpIN, cheers m8.
could you please p.m me some more details on how I would go about doing this.
cheers
mattjono
Hi Mattjono I have PM'd you some info :thumbsup: like the look of this though nolinks://deeptrancenow.com/win_roulette.htm
;)
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 25, 2009, 10:33:06 PM
Kompressor
How do we overcome this demon? I just can't seem to do what I know works and leave the "gambling" out of it.
Sam
0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8.........+31+32+33+34+35+36 =
666 >:D
Sam,
That's why you can not stop roulette ;)
accckkkk.......The Boogie Man
Very good system...invested 100$-----then goes to 475 and then come back to 85...then go back to 450 (haha i know it will drop again so with draw 200$)...then it goto 315 (again withdrawdraw 100$).....left 200 in my account. Finally lost that 200$..
Total profit is 200$+my investment safe 100$.
Thinking whether to go again or not..!
Do remember guys it has winning streaks....When you win...big some please get out.
Allin, first: [smiley=welcome/welcome02.png]
And second thanks for sharing your actual experiences with the GUT :thumbsup:
The system is for sure not a holy grail but the thread starts to be!
Hermes
Quote from: hermes on April 08, 2009, 12:10:26 AM
The system is for sure not a holy grail ...
Hermes
Would you proof this?
br
winkel
Number six,
I tested also,only flat bets on 14280 live numbers,from my spreadsheet,mart and april,from casino Admiral
Results negative,with all due respect to the author.The other progress part did not test,as to my approach
of playing the game,find it very difficult to implement in live casino play.....Iboba 8)
Quote from: iboba on April 14, 2009, 12:28:26 PM
Results negative,.......
of playing the game,find it very difficult to implement in live casino play.....Iboba 8)
Results negative can mean anything. I´ve said from the beginning there are some periods with drawback and I gave hints to avoid them. So as long as nobody tells more about the ways and whys he lost, I can´t comment and give further hints.
If you use the tracker4.exe than it is of course difficult to transfere it to BMC´s.
It needs a lot of training to work with a spreadsheet oand pen and paper in a BMC.
Quote from: Number SixIn the end I scrapped it because it was overly frustrating and I was of the mind that the returns simply weren't worth the effort.
It is like with the Holy Grail of King Arthur: You have to earn it.
No one should expect a Million-Maker-Roulette-Strategy without any hard work playing it.
Quote from: Number SixBut when it doesn't work, it's a steep slippery path all the way down.
Therefore I gave the Jump-Back-Lesson. I can´t give a Rule for DownHillRace if you don´t see that one is going on.
br
winkel
Of course it doesn't work. How could it? It's based on gambler's fallacy. Simply observing the normal binomial distribution of numbers doesn't tell you which numbers are "due to hit or catch up". It's ridiculous.
KonFuSed also tested it over a million spins and also showed that it lost at the expected 2.7% house edge.
-Herb
Herb,
As a logical thinker, and considering the nitty-gritty of the fallacy, I'm of the opinion that every roulette system and betting method under the sun, mechanical or otherwise, is fallacious. Some are more fallacious than others, and they are the ones that put you on the road to ruin. It is undeniable, however, that some ways do work...that is, they win more than they lose.
Hmmm,
Guys. . . I completely disagree with your openion. GUT is good for session based play, normally BJ we use this technic. It is certain that you will have losing sessions and winning sessions, but you gotta work on your stop limits.
Example :- -100$ stop the session(go out and spend some valuable time with your family)
+200 stop the session (do the same as above)
Lets say if you have 50% losing sessions and 50% winning sessions. (Normally i see 40% losing streaks and 60% winning streaks(dunno why) )
Lets say you played 30 sessions, I am sure you will be up by 1500$. This is how you should play.
If you cannot do this. . . then you must be looking something in the wrong place.
Regards
Should I implement a radar into my head????....Allin
--go out and spend some valuable time with your family????
--Allin my friend at 3 or 4 a.m.-are you serious
Lets say,lets say.....show as how to win 1500$
Iboba... 8) 8)
Holy cow. . I'm completely new to roulette because I play since 2 weeks now, BUT and I can say this is the system can make you RICH! :thumbsup: You are genius Wenkel!
5 stars for this system. My GOD!!
The downloads are not working !!!
Quote from: luquillas on August 11, 2009, 09:38:15 PM
The downloads are not working !!!
Hello luquillas, thanks for bringing this to notice. Please try again.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/)
Thanks, my friend. :thumbsup:
whi 5 stars??? its complete nonsense and you no it winkile :haha: :sarcastic: this wil make you lose you shirt my system is best and alwys winid!
Quote from: ozFriIzby on September 05, 2009, 10:41:19 AM
whi 5 stars??? its complete nonsense and you no it winkile :haha: :sarcastic: this wil make you lose you shirt my system is best and alwys winid!
ozFriIzby, please moderate yourself from making these type of comments (Yes, this is a warn..)
Quote from: ozFriIzby on September 05, 2009, 10:41:19 AM
whi 5 stars??? its complete nonsense and you no it winkile :haha: :sarcastic: this wil make you lose you shirt my system is best and alwys winid!
Ozfrizby, you should stop makeing reference to your rubbish system. It does not work, it is total nonsense and anyone with half a brain will realize this. Often there are 8-12 times in a row that the numbers do not come up. So please do us all a favour, and provide something that is worthwhile looking into.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on March 25, 2009, 10:33:06 PM
Kompressor
How do we overcome this demon? I just can't seem to do what I know works and leave the "gambling" out of it.
Sam
Explain the system to your wife and tell your wife you will be giving her some % of the winnings every day/week whatever. I GUARANTEE you that your wife will then harass the bejezuz out of you every day as to whether you won and if you did not win you will be forced to explain all of your bets.
curious
Believe it or not, I have done just that! I am smarting!
Sam
Hello Winkel, and everybody, I ma newbe here. Great forum.
I wont to know is it possible to implement G. U. T. in Sic Bo?
Game have a free roll (spin) so its simalar to bet systems what have free bet.
Hi forum, Hi winkel,
thank you for G. U. T. I am java developer and I tested gut on 1 milion numbers from this forum( 1 mil spins from random. org).
i play R N F only, it shows best results from various combinations over 1 milion testing spins in combination with numbers from real casino. Ofcourse for me and for my own code.
I am playing on no zero roulette. Now i am trying to optimalize it on one zero roulette, it will be harder but i think it can be sucessfull.
maybe i can show graph over that 1mil set of numbers.
tchus,
synax. one
Synax, great you are sharing youir results with us.
Yes mate, feel free to show the graph to us.
We will be looking for it and Winkel himself may review it.
Regards.
Hi all,
Yes thanks Winkel for this system. I have learnt and am still learning the GUT however im having great success with it. I play upto the 3 repeater cross over in any one session, the more i play the better i get with it. Great stuff. I also made a little Autohotkey program to place the bets for me, i would post it in the downloads area however unless you used the same screen res as me it would be useless.
Anyone here who can do a very small bit of simple programming, take a look at autohotkey, its a free macro maker. I use it to place lots of bets on the table and to track the GUT at the moment worth a look if you dont know about it.
Anyway i started on Dublin bet with $200 betting . 50 units with the GUT, 7 days later im at 575 Euros :) and i play maybe 1-2 hours per night on average. I have had a losing session, yes just one !! (Got carried away LOL) but only took 2 sessions to make back the loss with some interest.
Great stuff Winkel
Pete
Hi all,
thx for reading and testing my "strategy".
I´d like to see your stats and graphs, if available.
br
winkel
BTW
I found a new and more efficent bet-selection based on this strategy, but it is not playabel in OC´s nor in B&M-Casinos
I think it wouldn´t make much sense to post that new bet-selection until I found a way to play it.
;) Perhaps it makes sense to make a guesswork out of it, that will make traffic, for sure. :yahoo:
Posting ready and proofed ideas don´t have a big chance of having interest on this forum anymore
sorry for that
br
winkel
Hello, Sr. Winkel. Im spanish, sorry for my bad english. I have studing very carefully your system. I have printed and read several time all this post :scratch_ones_head: I have tried to play your system on live and online roulette. Unfortunately I have lost more than I won, because my conduct wasnt good. If there is a long time without winning, I begin to be nervous and I do a lot of stupiditys . I am really interested in your new bet selection; sure its playable on online casinos (not live). I have some questions for you too.
- Do you still think that your system is a long term winning? Obvious, but I need to read it on your own words ;)
- I have tried a very complex variation on your system that you published. Do you think that variant is a good way to play?
I wait your answer :smile:
Greetings. I wish you the best. Thank you for your great job.
JavierTT
Hi Javier,
QuoteI begin to be nervous and I do a lot of stupiditys
Try to play without emotions. If they come up stop playing and calm down.
Quote- Do you still think that your system is a long term winning? Obvious, but I need to read it on your own words
- I have tried a very complex variation on your system that you published. Do you think that variant is a good way to play?
This is not a system but a strategy. It gives you good informations for you bet-decisions. The winnings result from the train you jump on while reading what is going on. So it is a long-term winner but it needs a lot of training and experience.
As long as I don´t know your variation I can´t comment. :nono:
br
winkel
Quotethink it wouldn´t make much sense to post that new bet-selection until I found a way to play it.
I for one would be interested in hearing your idea and maybe even helping with the testing ?
Pete
Hi Winkel
I too would like to know what your new bet selection is...maybe you would be so kind as to post it so we can take a look.
Mate there are people here interested in seeing things..
TSK
Heey !!..
I've been reading this strategy a few minutes ago, just the first few pages actually. I've downloaded the GUT Bet Advisory from the Members' Soft Area and I have a few questions you will find on the attached file.
I'd be very happy if anyone could answer my questions !! = )
The way you should read the excel file is from the bottom to the top as it's the way the soft captures and saves the bettings.
Best wishes for all !
Nico
x
Hi,
QuoteBut as I am aware of how this soft works, It should recommend me to bet all the time till I hit the betting numbers, Is that okey?
It recommends you to bet only if there is a
crossingQuoteHere I don't understand why should I bet on =0 numbers. I can see there is a 10 18 but should not indicate that I should bet. What am I missing there that I cannot understand?
There 10 "0" 18 "1" and 9 ">1"
You therefore have a crossing 10 : 9 means bet all "0"s to cross with ">1"
And bet maximum 3 times (bet sum must be smaller than 36)
line 44: you have 7 20 10 6
so bet the "0"s to cross with "=2"
as you bet 7 numbers you can bet until hit but not more than 5 bets (5*7=35)
line 48: after you had hit the "=2"
the ">2" is now 6 and you have a new crossing 7:6 "0"vs">2"
line 49: after a hit with "0"s you now have a new crossing 6:6 on 0vs">2"
br
winkel
Thanks Winkel !!!!!! :biggrin:
I've been playing G.U.T. in a way I've find really useful and I can say I'm increasing my winnings every time I play BUT, I'd be pleased to know if someone has any strategy to know when to quit if you're facing a bad day and when to quit if you're facing a good one.
Thanks!
Nico
x
Quote from: facu_portla on November 08, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
I've been playing G.U.T. in a way I've find really useful and I can say I'm increasing my winnings every time I play BUT, I'd be pleased to know if someone has any strategy to know when to quit if you're facing a bad day and when to quit if you're facing a good one.
Thanks!
Nico
x
That´s what I call "Gambler´s Intelligence"
It will be a result of experience.
br
winkel
Before you start to play a game of roulette, set your stop loss - set it to a level of your bankroll you are willing to lose, set it at a level so that if you hit your stop loss you can remake it in your next session or 2, always set a stop loss and stick to it. Never chase losses.
Set a Target to win, set it at a reasonable level, hit the target and quit playing your system for the day.
As with the GUT i play the GUT alot and do well with it. After a time you can get a feeling that things just are not going well, get that feeling ? then its time to quit.
Thanks for those who replied to my question!.
Despite I've been winning with G.U.T. I think It would be good to set a target loss and a target when winning.
I've been thinking about 3 theories knowing that G.U.T. is a strategy, thus, wins in a long term, so, here are my 3 thoughts:
1) Quit when I'm -30 or when I'm +50
2) Quit when I'm -50 or when I'm +30
3) Quit when I'm -50 or when I'm +50
The values are not real but I'm trying to focus on the way you think it'd have to be played. I'd keep with the second one because, thinking in a long term strategy (GUT), those lossing will be backed up by the winnings I will get another day as winnings should be over the losses in a long term.
That said, It be grateful if you could share any thoughts about this.
Thanks!
Nico
x
First, let me congratulate Winkel on his own section. This must rankle the curd of his detractors!!
Porta
What I found was this: You're either having a good day or a bad day or swapping money. While I'm not advertising for the bots and the G.U.T. has not (to my knowledge) been programmed into one, let me say that I see the same thing playing the bot. "Some days are diamond; some days are stone. Some days the bad times won't leave you alone." What I found with the G.U.T. was that if you went through your first fifty spins and things were going well, continue on. If you were doing badly--very badly--during that first fifty, go ahead and jump back. Winkel said, "You want to ride this dead horse to spin 50?" and he's right. Get a fresh perspective.
If you're doing slightly bad at spin fifty--say down 20 or 30 units--jump back and if the second run is just as bad as the first, then you are just having a bad day and you might as well quit.
I have learned when you apply a certain set of rules to a roulette wheel or RNG, some days the casino will just absolutely conform to what you're doing--positive trams--and some days you can't win for losing--negative trams. I have seen this with every system I've ever played.
This is why some poor devils will find a system that wins for a few hundred spins and think they have the key to the mint. They just found a positive tram. Tomorrow it may all change. I saw this with the G.U.T., the 4Selecta, my Chicco/Murph and now with the system I'm testing with Super Roulette.
Now breathe this in: If you were going to do a trot of a hundred spins and half way through you could determine for "certain" that you were on a positive tram and it would continue to win until spin 100--how much would you bet? What if you could not be "certain" but you could say with a 70% certainty you were on a positve tram? How much would you bet? I am doing such a study--among others--with Super Roulette. Using the settings I am using, I find that when two exact things happen within a certain number of spins, you can almost bank on the graph line going up. I would bet money this is also true for the G.U.T. and the 4Selecta if they could be graphed over 2,000-spin trots for 500,000 spins or more. I firmly believe any system would. That is why, if you're still with me, systems start out winning and then tank. It's called beginner's luck--and you're beginning a system!
Victor, was it Manrique who said, "The trend is your friend"? I think he knows what I am learning.
Winkel, thanks for letting me blow and good health to you, Brother!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on November 13, 2009, 11:38:15 AM
Victor, was it Manrique who said, "The trend is your friend"? I think he knows what I am learning.
Manrique learned: "There is no system" the hard way.
When he was starting, he devised many mechanical systems and presented them to his "roulette coach" at the time, but then his roulette teacher would look at the positive results and ask: "Test a thousand more" (spins). Of course, they didn't have computers to test, so all of it had to be done manually.
And if there still were positive results, he would then ask again: "Test a thousand more", until the system would eventually break.
And so it did with each and every system a "roulette young" Manrique devised. Until the time where Manrique said "You always make me do a thousand more, no matter how positive the results. I'm not making one more system".
And then the coach said to his friend:
- Ah, he's wising up, he finally realized there is no system.
And this is very true.
In reality, there is no system that wins infinity; there are only "
waves" within the systems.
There is nothing wrong with a system, providing it's a 'complete' system. It must contain certain
essential components, providing information, when to exit a session and a minimum loss strategy.
I could sit at a roulette Table for millions of years, sure I wouldn't be a pretty sight ;D but I would still
be making a profit with the Signum and 4Selecta systems.
I consider the G.U.T has essential components and Winkel will correct me if I am wrong, he expresses
them in a different way to myself.
Programmers who suggest coding such systems, as referred to above, generally just don't have
a clue about the experience, which can only be found in a human player to get the best out of such
systems and when there is a losing session to exit with a minimum loss or break even, having made
an informed decision during the session.
Richard
Hi Winkel,I was wondering do you always play this on Live Wheel? What has been your biggest profit? Personally i find this way of playing too many tracking for me.But it figures many are enjoying your way..and winning.
kid
Winkel posted many graphs from RNG, live and touchbet. He can play anywhere.
As to the tracking, use Track4 software.
While it may be a monumental task, reading this entire thread would be helpful.
Sam
So it seems its your favourite and you are doing nicely yourself!? But when playing Live,the tracking is tedious i guess.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on November 13, 2009, 01:14:23 PM
kid
Winkel posted many graphs from RNG, live and touchbet. He can play anywhere.
As to the tracking, use Track4 software.
While it may be a monumental task, reading this entire thread would be helpful.
Sam
Read the red. It is not tedious at all. You plug in the number than came and Track4 does the rest. Watch my videos! They will tell you more than anything. There are five or six of them. Go to Motionbox dot com and look for the G.U.T. by TwoCatSam.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on November 13, 2009, 03:17:21 PM
Go to Motionbox dot com and look for the G.U.T. by TwoCatSam.
Or just click here: nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/folders?user_id=4e94d7b91017e9c3 (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/folders?user_id=4e94d7b91017e9c3)
:)
I meant if you sitting at a table..no software..not tedious?
Hi seykid,
it is very easy:
make a list, vertical 0 to 36
if a number hits make a note next to it.
e.g. X
you see at once if this number hasn´t appeard yet (there are no X´s)
if this number has hit once (there is already one X
if this number has hit several times (there are more than 1 X´s behind that number.
now you count every group
- numbers with no X
- numbers with 1 X
- numbers with 2 X
etc.
If you got the logic behind the group-counting you can easily write the groups down
e.g. you have already
17 10 10 3 3 2 1
now a number with 1X appears
you can easily write down
17 9 11 4 3 2 1
br
winkel
@all
pls remember that I call it not a "system" but a "strategy"
the kind of counting I invented gives you the opportunity "to see what is going on"
and this gives you the opportunity to make educated decisions like to stop, to jump, to bet or bet not.
the crossings are a kind of landmarks and the numbers are heading to cross or are moving away.
While they do that and how they do that gives you the hints you need to place a "winning" bet.
br
winkel
Sorry,but still feels a little too much for me.I know it suits many,and many profit,but i guess as long as my method works why break it.
Sorry about Sam! I tend to think in terms of "on-line" only! I forget there are B & M casinos in the world!
Quote@all
pls remember that I call it not a "system" but a "strategy"
the kind of counting I invented gives you the opportunity "to see what is going on"
and this gives you the opportunity to make educated decisions like to stop, to jump, to bet or bet not.
the crossings are a kind of landmarks and the numbers are heading to cross or are moving away.
While they do that and how they do that gives you the hints you need to place a "winning" bet.
br
winkel
I'm sorry, but I don't see it that way.
Quote from: Landis on November 13, 2009, 10:01:26 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see it that way.
And which way do you see it?
Congratulations on your own section Mr. Winkel :thumbsup:
I don't see a long term winner here. I see another system baseds on the law of the third. Why should it work?
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 04:22:05 PM
I don't see a long term winner here. I see another system baseds on the law of the third. Why should it work?
Do you have any argument or proof, why it is so, not only because you are not able to see?
I can and have proofed that it is a long term winner:
My profit this year more than 2700 units.
Why it works? Answer is quite simple, look at my first post:
The lines
have to cross! It is a must!
btw: it is not a game following the law of third it is a game following the binomial distribution.
br
winkel
Hi Winkel,what is the difference really.Because even if they have to cross,that apply also to law of third in a way.And 2700
units,how much is that really? SEYKID.
For starters, what you're doing is technically Multinomial, not Binomial. Binomial is used for basically just two outcomes. When testing for more than two it's called Multinomial.
Secondly, there's something that you are completely overlooking. The trials are independent; that is, the outcome on one trial does not affect the outcome on other trials. This means that what you're doing is a waste of time. It won't work. You need to study Multinomial and Binomial distribution. If you look it up, you will learn how to use it CORRECTLY.
Why are you now calling it binomial distribution when you use to call it the law of the third? You're Benno Winkel, right?
I've pasted the informaton for you to study below.
------------------------------------------------------------
A binomial experiment (also known as a Bernoulli trial) is a statistical experiment that has the following properties:
The experiment consists of n repeated trials.
Each trial can result in just two possible outcomes. We call one of these outcomes a success and the other, a failure.
The probability of success, denoted by P, is the same on every trial.
The trials are independent; that is, the outcome on one trial does not affect the outcome on other trials.
A multinomial experiment is a statistical experiment that has the following properties:
The experiment consists of n repeated trials.
Each trial has a discrete number of possible outcomes.
On any given trial, the probability that a particular outcome will occur is constant.
The trials are independent; that is, the outcome on one trial does not affect the outcome on other trials.
Note: A binomial experiment is a special case of a multinomial experiment. Here is the main difference. With a binomial experiment, each trial can result in two - and only two - possible outcomes. With a multinomial experiment, each trial can have two or more possible outcomes.
Quote from: seykid29 on November 14, 2009, 05:02:35 PM
Hi Winkel,what is the difference really.Because even if they have to cross,that apply also to law of third in a way.And 2700
units,how much is that really? SEYKID.
Hi seykid,
law of third says that after a full rotation (37 spins with plein) the average of outcomes is 23 to 24 numbers!
binomial distributions says that after every spin x numbers appeard once, y numbers appeared twice etc.
x can be 1 spin or 500 spins
2700 units are 2700 units
add any unit-size you want.
br
winkel
But doesnt a number has two outcome always..hitting or not hitting.And any unit,meaning you could make thousands with your GUT,but i doubt you playing that much.Like i said before,if it works great,make the most of it.
Why on earth has this thread gone on for 75 pages? Where's the logic?
Hi Landis,
thank you for explaining binomial and multinomial. But that doesn´t proof me being wrong with my strategy, does it?
I don´t say that the outcomes are not independend
spin by spin! So there is no need to tell me this.
QuoteYou're Benno Winkel, right?
No I´m not Benno Winkel
br
winkel
Winkel
It clearly proves you wrong. For starters, each spin is independent. Did you miss that part?
Just because one number has hit once, and another has hit twice, it doesn't tell you which is more likely to hit on the next spin. It's because there is no connection to the prior spins.
Are you saying that each spin of the wheel IS somehow connected to previous spins? I thought you were supposedly a math guy?
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 05:38:16 PM
Winkel
It clearly proves you wrong. For starters, each spin is independent. Did you miss that part?
Just because one number has hit once, and another has hit twice, it doesn't tell you which is more likely to hit on the next spin. It's because there is no connection to the prior spins.
Are you saying that each spin of the wheel IS somehow connected to previous spins? I thought you were supposedly a math guy?
I didn´t say anything of what you are discussing here.
But answer this question: Do these "crossings" have to appear or not?
and: during the game we will have 14 "0" 13 "1" and 10 ">1"
that means the possibility f"any" number is 1/37
but for "0" it is 14/37 and for "1" it is 13/37 and for ">1" it is 10/37
still all is independ but the probability for each group is different!
bxzVpn <a href="hxxp: whktisjjqwer. com/">whktisjjqwer</a>, usftltbympvh, [link=hxxp: lwwchsjxtpnv. com/]lwwchsjxtpnv[/link], hxxp: ybmvarxtujev. com/
Come on Landis,
do you know Kolmogoroff?
do you know Markov?
there is a step after: "Each trial is independent".
And: I´m not refering to hit exactly the next number, but I try to hit one of a group and this group has a higher probability than the others to hit.
Not only because the group-amount is equal or higher, but they have to cross as well, due to the bi-/multinomial distributions behaviour.
br
winkel
Winkel,
One group is NOT more likely to hit than another group. This is the 'FALLACY'
Yes there is a number that will hit each spin. Yes, depending on how you look at a crossing has to occur somewhere, but the odds of this happening for a single number is just 1 in 37 for a payoff of only 35 to 1.
These crossings are meaningless. These past crossings don't change the odds of a number or numbers hitting on the next spins.
Just curious, where's everyones brain at around here?
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 06:06:53 PM
Winkel,
One group is NOT more likely to hit than another group. This is the 'FALLACY'
...
Just curious, where's everyones brain at around here?
Where is your brain?
e.g. if I bet on 1 col than I have a probability of 12/37 or not?
my odds therefore are 25/37 right?
at the average after a certain number of spins these odds will appear! Or not?
The numbers that haven´t hit must go down to Zero. No matter if it is after 37 spins (earliest possible Point) or after 1000 spins.
But on that way a crossing has to appear, you can´t denie that.
Winkel,
The odds of one column hitting are 12/37 for a payoff of ONLY 2 to 1! This equals house edge over the player of 2.7%!
You haven't changed the odds at all! The crossovers are a waste of time to track.
I can see I'm going to have to teach you basic probability as well.
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 06:25:08 PM
Winkel,
The odds of one column hitting are 12/37 for a payoff of ONLY 2 to 1! This equals house edge over the player of 2.7%!
Did I say anything else? What are you complaining about?
And what about Kolmogorof and Markov you genius?
Why don´t you refer to these Math-People?
I know, then you would have to say that I am right. so stay at elemtentary-school-stochastics.
And pls don´t start a house-edge-discussion
Crossings happen.
Winkel,
Then feel free to prove my math wrong. You pretend to be a math guy, so show me the math the enables your system to win.
Perhaps you'd like to explain your gambling system to us all on this forum. nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70 (nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
Crossings happen, but the odds of a number hitting remain constant. Feel free to come and join our forum. However, don't check your brain at the door.
-Landis
(By the way, I'm a real math guy, not a pretend one.)
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 06:42:13 PM
Winkel,
Then feel free to prove my math wrong. You pretend to be a math guy, so show me the math the enables your system to win.
-Landis
(By the way, I'm a real math guy, not a pretend one.)
I didn´t say your math is wrong, but after you have learned the basiscs of stochastics, you should make the next step.
And again, what about Kolmogorof and Markov?
To proof my strategy with math is impossible, because it doesn´t relate to math.
The only math in it is: +1 and -1 and sum and difference.
br
winkel
Sorry, but that's of no value. Feel free to post it on the other forum.
nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70 (nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
I have to add something:
If I would only bet one certain crossing e.g. 14-13 at spin 37 I would fail as any other strategy. (-2,7)
what I do is betting every appearing crossing, no matter at what point of the sequence it appears.
But as others have experienced there are three possible ways of betting results:
- strongly winning
- strongly losing
- winning and losing small wins smal losses
The way I bet i meet all three kinds of results and add them up.
To make me lose my bankroll all the crossings have to lose, that happens but very rarely.
As I bet less than 18 numbers one single win always equalizes one loss.
At average I bet 10-11 numbers, that means 1 win equalizes 2 losses (I need 1 win out of three bets)
Stopp-Loss is always smaller than possible win (<36 / see stopp betting rule)
Stopp game when you are in a losing streak and jump to a winning streak,
In every spin row there is a winning streak, as I proofed before. (See Jumping-Tutorial)
br
winkel
Quote from: Landis on November 14, 2009, 06:58:15 PM
Sorry, but that's of no value. Feel free to post it on the other forum.
nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70 (nolinks://nolinks.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
Hi Landis,
1. English is not my first language and Im definitely not able to discuss within math-terms
2. I like forums where people discuss their hobbies and try to beat probability.
3. I hate forums where people discuss "time-travelling"
4. and as long as you don´t answer my questions to the theories of Kolmogorof and Markov, why should I discuss there?
Greetings Mr.Winkel,
I know we got entangled in debate once ,im back in peace.
Wanted to ask,if someone is decicated,is it possible to make a living from G.U.T.
Thanks in advance.
SEYKID.
Quote from: seykid29 on January 30, 2010, 02:25:49 AM
is it possible to make a living from G.U.T.
Thanks in advance.
SEYKID.
thats his claim, can you confirm winkel?
Quote from: Jish on March 15, 2010, 12:55:10 PM
thats his claim, can you confirm winkel?
Why should I?
If he is not reading and testing, he will never learn.
Can make your living from working? Yes!
Can you make your living without learning and hard working? NO!
So learn and get experience and see what is going on!
Otherwise, if you search for an easy system: Sit on the loo for 2h3min35sec. then run out and bet on the next possible table: Red!
Winkle you come across as a bit rude, perhaps all the personal attacks by ex-members have worn away the kindness I have seen in prior posts from you
Quote from: Jish on March 15, 2010, 08:28:56 PM
Winkle you come across as a bit rude, perhaps all the personal attacks by ex-members have worn away the kindness I have seen in prior posts from you
What is rude?
Rude is not to read an trying to understand. Rude are people who come to a forum and ask just: What is the winning system? they want a guarantee and a starting bankroll as well.
They forget that roulette is a game. It is not made to make a living from it.
Some people make a living from playing chess. But if you don´t learn and read about it, don´t exercise and make experiences, you won´t be sucessful, would you?
I´ve tried to be polite as long as I could. but there seem to be 3 different kind of people.
1. the owners of the truth: Nothing works!
2. the owners of the superior truth: AP and VB works nothing else.
3. People who wanna win without thinking and working.
To them I´m not polite anymore.
So you have time for people that are willing to read, become educated, read more and try to understand......then.....ask questions?
@all
time after time I recieve PMs with questions.
I only answer questions referring my strategies when they asked publically.
BTW.
The strategy is now played by several people. naturally with enormous success.
There´s a software which is intelligent learning, and it gives correct advices for bets and wins.
I myself make 200 units per day with it.
br
winkel
Nice to see from you Winkel :)
Can you please give the link to the program?
Do you use the program in your bets, or do you make some changes to it?
Regards,
Afonso
I don´t posess this program.
The guy who builded it is playing with it.
br
inkel
Can I ask how to contact him?
G.U.T is obvieously and proofed the best system that had ever been published for free in an open Forum.
the software wouldn´t be for free. I hope you understand.
the software is not meant to be sold.
I understand :)
But a software is always good...
By hand we are susceptible to some mistakes
And I remember when I was testing GUT, I had always some doubts then I couldn't play property and win.
But I'm being honest when I say GUT ,in my opinion, was always and still is the system where I've most hope !
Thanks for share your knowledge with us!
Best regards,
Afonso
QuoteG.U.T is obvieously and proofed the best system that had ever been published for free in an open Forum.
Where is the proof? The only proof I've seen is the one where Kon-Fu-Sed showed it failed.
If someone will explain clearly and step-by-step how to play this system I will write software for it. I've read some of the thread but it's very confusing, although I get the gist of it.
I repeat, I need clear, step-by-step explanations in order to write the software. I'm not interested in doing any testing by hand.
Quote from: Bayes on April 11, 2010, 05:46:38 AM
Where is the proof? The only proof I've seen is the one where Kon-Fu-Sed showed it failed.
Hi Bayes,
KonFuSed didn´t proof that it failed, he just proofed that every combination follows the natural probability if played long term.
Decisions are neccessary. If I watch "what´s going on" I can decide, if the crossing will hit or not. If in doubt, don´t bet. The "doubt" is very difficult to put into a software.
On the other hand the software I talked about is following an advanced way of playing this strategy.
But most people were not interested to learn this, they just wanted to disturb and to destruct.
br
winkel
Hi Winkel,
I don't have a problem with "decisions", and for what it's worth I don't consider myself as being in any of the categories you mention above. You are making some pretty grand claims here, and I'd like to give your system a try.
I haven't read all the posts but I found this one which seems to present the basic idea (reply #247):
Quotewe have 37(38) numbers on the wheel. OK?
after the first spin we have 1 appeared and 36(37) not appeared (thats logical enough?)
with the second spin we count again
if a second number appeares we have 2 and 35(36) if the same number comes again we still have 1-36! do you agree and understand?
If you proceed this counting you will get at any time druing wathing a situation where you have
19 numbers that didn´t appear yet, and 18 numbers that have appeared once or more. Is that believable?
This is the first possible "crossing", but is not recommended to play.
All possible crossing that can be played:
18-17
17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15
please get the logic in it and fill the row by yourself downwords to 1-0
we have these crossings between
0 - 1 (numbers did´t appeare and numbers appeared "once") also called "0" or "R" and N or "1"
0 - >0 numbers that did´nt appear and numbers that appeared) once and more than once
1 - >1 numbers appeared once and numbers appeared more than once
2 - >2 numbers appeared twice and numbers appeared more than twice.
We bet when a crossing is in sight.
a crossing is in sight, when the difference between two charcteristics is 0 or 1 (see list above)
Are there any other posts which may help? keep in mind I'm planning to write software for tracking. This software you're using - can you describe it so that maybe I could write a "clone" of it?
I'm working my way through the thread, here is another post which seems worth keeping (reply #375)
Quotesome more basics:
as far as we know there can be 33 numbers or just 15 numbers appearing in 37 spins.
relating to this strategy:
1. If there are 33 nmumbers we will have absolutely no crossing "0"vs"1" because after 19-18 at "0" vs "">0" the "1" will never be lower than the "0"s
as there wil be nearly no "2"s we will have no crossing "1"vs"2" or "1" ">1"
2. If there are only 15 numbers appearing we will have no crossing "0" vs any
There will be a crossing "1"vs">1" and "1"vs"2" maximum 8units to bet absolutely no risc.
So we we are safe for getting in extrem situations.
We will only bet if we are near to binomial distribution.
The "Law of the Third" doesn´t only tell, that there are app. 24 numbers hit, 12 not, and 12 more often than once in 37 spins.
If we break the 37 spins in 3 parts: 13spins/12spins/12spins
and make a statistic on it we will get this result:
spin 1-13: app. 10-11 unhit numbers appear
spin 14-25: app. 8 unhit numbers appear
spin 26-37: app. 6 unhit numbers appear
and
spin 38-50: app. 4-5 unhit numbers appear
total after 37 spins 24-25
total after 37 spins 28-30
We can be sure:
If in spin 1-13 were more/less than 10 numbers: in spin 14-25 there will be mostly 8 numbers
If in spin 14-25 were more/less than 8 numbers: in spin 26-37 there will be mostly 6 numbers
If ins pin 26-37 were more/less than 6 numbers: in spin 38-50 there will be mostly 4-5 numbers.
during watching whats going on, we just check if the above statistical values are hit or not.
QuoteAre there any other posts which may help? keep in mind I'm planning to write software for tracking. This software you're using - can you describe it so that maybe I could write a "clone" of it?
pls search for "tracker4" or "GUTCBA"
pls have in mind, that you are just exploring the absolutely basic stuff and introduction.
pls check the videos/tests/tutorials of TwoCatSam
br
winkel
Winkel
Are this the only crossings recommended to play?
" All possible crossing that can be played:
18-17
17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15 "
When I was testing GUT some time ago, I was using "GUTCBA".
Playing just using it, made my final result with some loss, but almost break even..
What are the changes we can make to "GUTCBA" to make it profitable?
Regards,
Afonso
Ok, thanks Winkel. I can see there isn't much point in my reading the entire thread until I have mastered the basics. One question though: Your very first post in this thread (showing the excel chart) can you tell me how you have generated the curves? I can see that the vertical axis is showing the numbers on the wheel, but what about the horizontal axis? if I see how you calculate each point I think this will help me to understand the rationale behind the system.
Quote from: Bayes on April 11, 2010, 12:45:38 PM
Ok, thanks Winkel. I can see there isn't much point in my reading the entire thread until I have mastered the basics. One question though: Your very first post in this thread (showing the excel chart) can you tell me how you have generated the curves? I can see that the vertical axis is showing the numbers on the wheel, but what about the horizontal axis? if I see how you calculate each point I think this will help me to understand the rationale behind the system.
The horizontal axis is the number of spins.
The chart is showing the binomial/multinomial distribution factor 1/37
br
winkel
Quote from: A3on47 on April 11, 2010, 12:13:11 PM
Winkel
Are this the only crossings recommended to play?
" All possible crossing that can be played:
18-17
17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15 "
QuoteAll possible crossing that can be played:
18-17
17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15
please get the logic in it and fill the row by yourself downwords to 1-0
pls read complete !
Quote from: A3on47 on April 11, 2010, 12:15:50 PM
When I was testing GUT some time ago, I was using "GUTCBA".
Playing just using it, made my final result with some loss, but almost break even..
What are the changes we can make to "GUTCBA" to make it profitable?
Regards,
Afonso
GUTCBA is just a tool, it is not the strategy.
If you start with a loss just jump.
If you have two wins in a row stop or jump.
Quote from: Winkel on April 11, 2010, 01:19:29 PM
GUTCBA is just a tool, it is not the strategy.
If you start with a loss just jump.
If you have two wins in a row stop or jump.
By jump you mean start over a new session?
Any more tips for play with GUTCBA?
I can't see where to download GUTCBA from.... :-\
Quote from: Bayes on April 11, 2010, 01:59:42 PM
I can't see where to download GUTCBA from.... :-\
Check your email box ;)
Thanks Afonso!
Quote from: A3on47 on April 11, 2010, 01:27:36 PM
By jump you mean start over a new session?
Any more tips for play with GUTCBA?
pls read this
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/g-u-t-jumping-tutorial/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/g-u-t-jumping-tutorial/)
Thanks Winkel
There is still so much to learn about GUTCBA, and to many topics/threads/replies about it :-\
I have a long research and study to do ...
Hope I can master it
Best regards,
Afonso
QuoteThere´s a software which is intelligent learning, and it gives correct advices for bets and wins.
Winkel,
What do you mean by "intelligent" learning? Do you mean that the software incorporates some kind of neural network? or does it act on the basis of previous analysis of all possible combinations/patterns, and only bets on the most "favourable" according to current conditions?
Strictly speaking of course, there are no "favourable" bets in the long term.
Quotedoes it act on the basis of previous analysis of all possible combinations/patterns, and only bets on the most "favourable" according to current conditions?
Yes, both!
e.g. the last statistic of a crossing is LLLLLL, so it doesn´t bet.
the statistic shows: >1;>1;>1;=1;>1 it bets instead >1
compare the statistic I posted above
additional: it is a crossover checking of all upcoming sequences of the spins (spin 1-37; 2-38; 3-39 etc) if the signal to bet on "0" is on all (or most) the same it bets "0"
Is there a crossing in any sequences it jumps to this sequence and checks the chance of win by e.g.
additional: If sequence 1-37 showing ">1" and sequence 14-xx is showing "1" and sequence 25-xx is showing "0" it compares the numbers and plays only the number with min. 2 appearances in the sequences.
e.g.
see pciture (here the check is: first line signal "1"; second line signal "0")
here we only bet #12 and #19
Hello Mr WINKEL,
As you are attacked from all sides I would like to support you through my results.
I do not play completely as you, I only play 17, 16, 15 numbers.
In three months of real RNG games I played 631 times :
17: 73 wins, 62 losses
16: 89 wins, 106 losses
15: 150 wins, 151 losses
Sigma: 3. 6
For 17, I only play the "1" if I have 17-17-3 at spin 23.
The way I play, I've tested over millions of spins.
In this case the standard deviation exceeds 10.
So GUT is really a system that beats roulette over the long term.
But as you said, it's like playing chess, it takes a minimum of strategy.
Best regards
Mamas.
Thanks for your comment.
I think a lot of people are playing it, but don´t tell. :'(
br
winkel
can this win with a mechanical bet? if not, then how can this be a holy grail?
It is like the Holy Grail of King Arthur:
You don´t get it just as a present. you do have to work for it. and if you got it, you still have to work to get the fortune out of it.
There is nothing for free in the world.
You won´t get the holy grail by asking: Is this the Holy grail?
and you won´t get rich if the answer is yes!
Oh please... ::)
He asked a very legitimate question.
Quote from: WhiteKnight on July 06, 2010, 02:26:19 AM
can this win with a mechanical bet?
No it can't. Winkel claimed it wins mechanically at first (and that he tested it via computer simulations but refused to show proof). Then a simulation was written by KonFuSed and the system was proved to be a loser.
It was only after THAT that Winkel started saying this is actually a subjective strategy and it doesn't work mechanically but you need "gambler's intelligence" to make it work.
Same old c-r-a-p fed to the uninformed.
Quote from: Noble Savage on July 06, 2010, 04:24:56 PM
Oh please... ::)
He asked a very legitimate question.
No it can't. Winkel claimed it wins mechanically at first (and that he tested it via computer simulations but refused to show proof). Then a simulation was written by KonFuSed and the system was proved to be a loser.
It was only after THAT that Winkel started saying this is actually a subjective strategy and it doesn't work mechanically but you need "gambler's intelligence" to make it work.
Same old c-r-a-p fed to the uninformed.
don´t talk about things you don´t have the slightest idea of.
What Kon-Fu-Sed proofed was, that every single crossing on its own will lose longterm.
Roulette wouldn´t be a random game if that wasn´t true.
What I said and proofed is this:
In every sequence of 50 spins there are several crossings with several numbers of numbers to bet.
Gamblers intelligence and watching what is going on enables the player to avoid losing streaks and win winning streaks.
this I proofed with my stochastical math proof.
Just saying "it doesn´t proof" is not enough. Pls proof the opposite by giving the "better" stochastical arguments than I did.
Nearly every day I get messages " does it win?" "do you still play?" "Is it worth reading it?" "Can you proof" "Who does it play?"
I don´t answer these stupid questions anymore. It is proofed by TCS. The only reason he lost was "the devil in him" who made him place bets in a senseless way and making horrible progressions.
Everyone who is to lazy to read all those examples and tutorials and my math proof isn´t worth the HG
no reagrds
Quote from: Winkel on July 06, 2010, 05:42:03 PM
It is proofed by TwoCatSam. The only reason he lost was "the devil in him"
;D
How people take you folks seriously is beyond me.
Quote from: Noble Savage on July 06, 2010, 05:59:57 PM
;D
How people take you folks seriously is beyond me.
Pls proof me wrong by telling me which of my stochastical arguments are wrong.
But you can´t, therefore you have to attack TCS and me this way, because you see that you have no arguments at all
so shut up and piss off
You have posted no legitimate mathematical proof. I've seen those math formulas you posted in German and I had them verified. They are nonsense. Nice try.
People, do your proper research and investigation before you believe absurd people like Winkel. You'll be glad you did.
Quote from: Noble Savage on July 06, 2010, 06:36:22 PM
You have posted no legitimate mathematical proof. I've seen those math formulas you posted in German and I had them verified. They are nonsense. Nice try.
People, do your proper research and investigation before you believe absurd people like Winkel. You'll be glad you did.
What is wrong with them?
What is wrong with the teories of Kolmogoroff and Markov? Are they wrong?
It is called "universal" because it regards to nearly all stochastical theories and combines them to a strategy.
To proof me wrong would mean to proof Markov, Kolmogoroff an Döblin and Poincare and Ehrenfest wrong.
Try this, otherwise: see above
I think you only have empty phrases but no facts
What is wrong with them? What is wrong with the teories of Kolmogoroff and Markov? Are they wrong?>>
Winkel, Noble Savage has no idea whats wrong with them. You insult his delicate sensibilities when you suggest you have found a way to win. So instead of answering you, he's posted that he's leaving the forum because we're all just too absurd for him to handle. He's only 22 and still wet behind the ears, he can't help himself..
Here's the problem with Winkel's Gut system:
His crossings graphs have no meaning. For example, just because the number one has hit three times, it doesn't make it more or less likely to hit than the number two.
The graphs don't even account for the position of the numbers as they lay on the wheel. Therefore, they have no value whatsoever.
For his system to work, past outcomes would have to somehow influence future outcomes. Since the number of pockets remain the same from one spin to the next, the odds of a number hitting does not change at each new spin.
Sorry Winkel, but you're wasting your time with this GUT stuff
The experts have spoken, Winkel. If you're winning using GUT, according to them you really aren't. They have been taught what really wins, how dare you defy them.. :lol:
*sigh*...we lost Winkel? He was one of our most active contributors.....
Hello
I think the link is removed
I had published.
I try to attach the program
format. zip.
The program is simple to use
Let's say we have 16 -15 in this
If we play the full output to zero.
To bring into play the full output with 0
just click on the "G" beneath
F0. After 2 rounds of play to remove
the episodes just click on "Rimuovi puntate".
is there a spreadsheet or a post that shows when to place a bet with G.U.T.?
Thanks,
John
Hello
If you go in the post are non-deductible explanations of when to play
using G. U. T.
My public that other statistical software roulette
RouletteStat named.
The program I developed is in Italian, but easy
use. Then bring the change translating
function keys in English.
shadow_2011, Thank you for your response.
John
Quote from: shadow_2011 on September 26, 2011, 10:22:19 AM
The program I developed is in Italian, but easy
use. Then bring the change translating
function keys in English.
Is there a way for you to translate it to English?
Thanks,
John
Hello
I translated the English program
I hope that there are no translation errors. :-)
Hello
I started the new version of RouletteStat, I enclose
an image of the software under development. over
statistics to this new version also has a
cash management and to make bets in now
mass equal.
Hello
I plugged in the program all graphs
related to the frequency and delays the
formations, unlike the old
This new version can be
6 creating formations that may contain
up to 12 numbers for training.
I enclose a picture that shows all
the functions currently available in the program.
The input parameters in the images are
intended only to show the functions of the program.
Hello
I released on my web space to
RouletteStat version 3. 0, in this first
phase is already full of statistics but will be improved
in the future. For now the program is only
Italian I'll try to translate it into English in the future.
Hello
I translated RouletteStat version 3.0
helping me in English with a translator.
This is the first program already has
several statistics and the ability to be
point out certain combinations. the
program is only for the purpose of study
the game of roulette.
Winkel
Thank you so much for sharing your G.U.T System to us. :thumbsup:
Viele Grüsse aus der Schweiz
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 16 36 1
2 13 35 2
3 25 34 3
4 0 33 4
5 2 32 5
6 0 32 4 1 1
7 18 31 5 1 1
8 8 30 6 1 1
9 34 29 7 1 1
10 24 28 8 1 1
11 31 27 9 1 1
12 16 27 8 2 2
13 21 26 9 2 2
14 21 26 8 3 3
15 9 25 9 3 3
16 0 25 9 3 2 1
17 7 24 10 3 2 1
18 1 23 11 3 2 1
19 14 22 12 3 2 1
20 9 22 11 4 3 1
21 24 22 10 5 4 1
22 20 21 11 5 4 1
23 29 20 12 5 4 1
24 36 19 13 5 4 1
25 22 18 14 5 4 1
26 19 17 15 5 4 1
27 29 17 14 6 5 1
28 32 16 15 6 5 1 =0: 3 4 5 6 10 11 12 15 17 23 26 27 28 30 33 35 16 -16
29 4 W 15 16 6 5 1 +20
30 26 14 17 6 5 1
31 1 14 16 7 6 1
32 35 13 17 7 6 1
33 5 12 18 7 6 1
34 36 12 17 8 7 1
35 17 11 18 8 7 1
36 15 10 19 8 7 1
37 32 10 18 9 8 1 =0: 3 6 10 11 12 23 27 28 30 33 10 +10
38 11 W 9 19 9 8 1 =0: 3 6 10 12 23 27 28 30 33 9 +37
39 13 L 9 18 10 9 1 =0: 3 6 10 12 23 27 28 30 33 9 +28
40 19 L 9 17 11 10 1 +28
41 35 9 16 12 11 1
42 0 9 16 12 11 1
43 32 9 16 12 10 2
44 28 8 17 12 10 2
45 29 8 17 12 9 3
46 11 8 16 13 10 3
47 23 7 17 13 10 3
48 32 7 17 13 10 3
49 21 7 17 13 9 4
50 3 * End of Session
I think this system works the best with only play the not appeared numbers when:
0=0
0>1
1>0
no end at 50 spins and quit when you are in profit.
Other meanings?
If anyone wants the software, I will dig it out and post it. Can't even remember the name of it or who wrote it, but it is perfect.
Ohhh the memories. I've missed this place.
Hi... i finally added GUT to my calculator and i just lurked at Dublinbet, tracking 94 spins..... i played GUT against a couple other methods and boy am i impressed....
I played GUT with 4 bins: Resting, single hit, 2 hits, more than two hits. The system played after each crossing detected (binX - bin(X+1)== 0||1). Instead of evaluating if the bet to see feasability according to trends, i had the calculator tally all the bets following the rules (as far as i could understand them) to eliminate any bias. Also to get an idea how the system works unsupervised.... (u can tell i am in research, no? ;) ...
Thanks winkel for the great GUT theory!!! also to the others who asked questions and examples, which made understanding easier.
I will do it again for another day or two to get the overall picture, but here are today's results:
(btw, Net : net results for that spin (bet amount-winnings, BR: bankroll; GUT results are the last two columns....)
Session / Date: 28-7-2012
Establishment: Dublinbet- tracked
Total spins: 94
Total time: 0:0:22 (h:m:s) >> Start time: 22:34 / End time: 22:35
#########################
Date Time Spins Method: W L Lowest BR BR
28-7-2012 0:0:22 94 Street|lastqualif. 4 77 -21 63
28-7-2012 0:0:22 94 Street|all qualif. 6 200 -77 10
28-7-2012 0:0:22 94 18 track 32 1153 -156 -33
28-7-2012 0:0:22 94 8 train 4 83 -45 57
28-7-2012 0:0:22 94 Only Way 83 109 -52 -26
28-7-2012 0:0:22 94 G.U.T. 8 82 0 113
Amount of units
Hit Street:last qual. Street:all qual. 18 number 8 train Only Way G.U.T.
Net: BR: Net: BR: Net: BR: Net: BR: Net: BR: Net: BR:
7 -1 63 -2 10 -15 -33 -1 57 -2 -26 0 113
6 -1 64 -2 12 21 -18 -1 58 1 -24 0 113
21 -1 65 -2 14 20 -39 -1 59 -1 -25 0 113
36 -1 66 -2 16 19 -59 -1 60 4 -24 0 113
33 -1 67 -1 18 18 -78 -1 61 2 -28 0 113
32 0 68 0 19 -19 -96 -1 62 -1 -30 0 113
24 -1 68 -1 19 -19 -77 -1 63 -1 -29 0 113
33 -1 69 -1 20 -19 -58 -1 64 4 -28 0 113
25 -1 70 -1 21 -18 -39 -1 65 2 -32 0 113
14 -1 71 32 22 -17 -21 34 66 -1 -34 0 113
35 -1 72 -2 -13 -16 -4 -1 31 -1 -33 0 113
29 -1 73 -3 -11 20 12 -1 32 -4 -32 0 113
3 -1 74 -2 -8 -16 -8 -1 33 2 -28 0 113
6 -1 75 -2 -6 -15 8 -1 34 -2 -30 0 113
9 -1 76 -3 -4 -14 23 -1 35 -1 -28 0 113
9 -1 77 -3 -1 22 37 -1 36 -1 -27 27 113
3 -1 78 -3 2 21 15 -1 37 1 -26 0 86
33 -1 79 -3 5 20 -6 -1 38 -2 -27 0 86
13 35 80 30 8 -16 -26 -1 39 1 -25 -9 86
15 -1 45 -4 -27 -15 -10 -1 40 -1 -26 -9 95
21 -1 46 -4 -23 -14 5 -1 41 1 -25 0 104
4 -1 47 -4 -19 -13 19 -1 42 1 -26 0 104
11 -1 48 -4 -15 23 32 -1 43 1 -27 0 104
4 -1 49 -3 -11 22 9 -1 44 6 -28 27 104
36 -1 50 -3 -8 -14 -13 -1 45 3 -34 -9 77
33 -1 51 -2 -5 -13 1 -1 46 -2 -37 0 86
10 -1 52 -1 -3 -12 14 -1 47 -2 -35 -10 86
14 -1 53 -1 -2 24 26 34 48 -1 -33 -10 96
6 -1 54 -2 -1 23 2 -1 13 -1 -32 26 106
20 -1 55 -2 1 22 -21 -1 14 1 -31 0 80
14 -1 56 -2 3 -14 -43 31 15 4 -32 0 80
18 -1 57 -2 5 22 -29 -3 -20 2 -36 0 80
14 -1 58 -3 7 21 -51 -2 -17 -1 -38 0 80
32 -1 59 -4 10 20 -72 -1 -15 -1 -37 0 80
36 -1 60 -4 14 19 -92 -1 -14 -2 -36 26 80
17 -1 61 -4 18 18 -111 -1 -13 1 -34 -11 54
11 -1 62 -3 22 -19 -129 -1 -12 -1 -35 0 65
6 -1 63 -3 25 -18 -110 -1 -11 2 -34 24 65
30 -1 64 -2 28 18 -92 28 -10 1 -36 -12 41
18 -1 65 -2 30 -19 -110 -6 -45 -1 -37 -12 53
32 -1 66 -3 32 -19 -91 -5 -39 1 -36 0 65
8 -1 67 -2 35 -18 -72 -4 -34 10 -37 0 65
17 -1 68 -1 37 -17 -54 -4 -30 5 -47 23 65
12 -1 69 -2 38 -16 -37 -3 -26 -4 -52 0 42
2 -1 70 -2 40 -15 -21 -2 -23 -3 -48 0 42
26 -1 71 -2 42 -14 -6 -2 -21 -2 -45 0 42
12 -1 72 33 44 22 8 -2 -19 -2 -43 0 42
9 -1 73 -1 9 -14 -14 -2 -17 -1 -41 0 42
4 -1 74 -1 10 -13 0 -2 -15 -1 -40 0 42
30 -1 75 -2 11 -12 13 -1 -13 -4 -39 0 42
23 35 76 33 13 24 25 -1 -12 2 -35 0 42
36 -1 41 -1 -22 -12 1 -1 -11 -1 -37 23 42
22 35 42 33 -21 24 13 -1 -10 -1 -36 0 19
24 -1 7 -2 -56 23 -11 -1 -9 1 -35 0 19
3 -1 8 -2 -54 -13 -34 -1 -8 -2 -36 0 19
18 -1 9 -2 -52 23 -21 -1 -7 1 -34 0 19
0 -1 10 -2 -50 -13 -44 -1 -6 -1 -35 0 19
30 -1 11 -2 -48 23 -31 -1 -5 1 -34 0 19
7 -1 12 -2 -46 22 -54 -1 -4 1 -35 0 19
25 -1 13 -2 -44 21 -76 -1 -3 1 -36 0 19
11 35 14 32 -42 20 -97 -1 -2 2 -37 0 19
10 -1 -21 -3 -77 19 -117 -1 -1 1 -39 0 19
14 -1 -20 -4 -74 -17 -136 0 0 -1 -40 0 19
14 -1 -19 -5 -70 19 -119 0 0 1 -39 0 19
8 -1 -18 -5 -65 18 -138 0 0 -6 -40 0 19
12 -1 -17 -4 -60 -19 -156 0 0 3 -34 0 19
23 -1 -16 -4 -56 -19 -137 0 0 -2 -37 0 19
10 -1 -15 -5 -52 -19 -118 0 0 -2 -35 0 19
27 -1 -14 -5 -47 -18 -99 0 0 -1 -33 0 19
8 -1 -13 -5 -42 -17 -81 0 0 -1 -32 19 19
20 -1 -12 -5 -37 -16 -64 0 0 1 -31 0 0
30 -1 -11 -5 -32 -15 -48 0 0 -9 -32 0 0
32 -1 -10 -5 -27 21 -33 0 0 -7 -23 0 0
29 -1 -9 -5 -22 -15 -54 0 0 -5 -16 0 0
22 -1 -8 -4 -17 -14 -39 0 0 -4 -11 0 0
14 -1 -7 -3 -13 -13 -25 0 0 -3 -7 0 0
16 -1 -6 -2 -10 -12 -12 0 0 -2 -4 0 0
33 -1 -5 -2 -8 0 0 0 0 -2 -2 0 0
15 -1 -4 -2 -6 0 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0
5 -1 -3 -2 -4 0 0 0 0 -1 1 0 0
5 -1 -2 -1 -2 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0
6 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 4 1 0 0
18 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 -3 0 0
25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -5 0 0
32 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -4 0 0
11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -3 0 0
24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -2 -4 0 0
2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -2 0 0
7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -3 0 0
28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -2 0 0
15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -4 -3 0 0
36 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0
17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 0
2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Durn it, the layout looks bad. Here is the file (change extension to html).
Btw, does anyone know how to post html code on the post? I tried the code button and inserting the html but no dice (at least on the preview....).
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum, so sorry for being a noob etc :biggrin:
with regards to the system, I just downloaded the software by Kon-fu-sed, and try it using free online roulette, here is the result i got
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 19 36 1
2 13 35 2
3 9 34 3
4 18 33 4
5 2 32 5
6 20 31 6
7 26 30 7
8 16 29 8
9 4 28 9
10 9 28 8 1 1
11 11 27 9 1 1
12 1 26 10 1 1
13 2 26 9 2 2
14 18 26 8 3 3
15 0 25 9 3 3
16 36 24 10 3 3
17 7 23 11 3 3
18 36 23 10 4 4
19 30 22 11 4 4
20 13 22 10 5 5
21 18 22 10 5 4 1
22 25 21 11 5 4 1
23 14 20 12 5 4 1
24 16 20 11 6 5 1
25 16 20 11 6 4 2
26 28 19 12 6 4 2
27 22 18 13 6 4 2
28 16 18 13 6 4 2
29 25 18 12 7 5 2
30 10 17 13 7 5 2
31 19 17 12 8 6 2
32 29 16 13 8 6 2
33 29 16 12 9 7 2
34 8 15 13 9 7 2
35 16 15 13 9 7 2
36 10 15 12 10 8 2
37 16 15 12 10 8 2
38 35 14 13 10 8 2 =0: 3 5 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 32 33 34 14 -14
39 1 L 14 12 11 9 2 =1: 0 4 7 8 11 14 20 22 26 28 30 35 12 -26
40 5 L 13 13 11 9 2 =0: 3 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 32 33 34 13 -39
41 32 W 12 14 11 9 2 =0: 3 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 33 34 12 -15
42 13 L 12 14 11 8 3 =0: 3 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 33 34 12 -27
43 3 W 11 15 11 8 3 =0: 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 33 34 11 -2
44 16 L 11 15 11 8 3 =0: 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 33 34 11 -13
45 25 L 11 15 11 7 4 =0: 6 12 15 17 21 23 24 27 31 33 34 11 -24
46 28 L 11 14 12 8 4 -24
47 31 10 15 12 8 4
48 9 10 15 12 7 5
49 8 10 14 13 8 5 =1: 0 3 4 5 7 11 14 20 22 26 30 31 32 35 14 -38
50 21 L * End of Session
As you can see, overall I lose 7 times and won 2 times only and i lost money (fake of course). Since the software only allowed 50 spins, what should I do next? move into a new table and restart the software? Please help me.
Kind regards,
yoyo80
Anyone still alive? :)
I doubt Winkel still post here but he mentioned about Law of Third. As he posted:
"example for the Law of Third:
spin 13: 11 hit numbers 28 remaining
spin 25: 19 hit numbers 18 remaining
spin 37: 25 hit numbers 12 remaining
spin 50: 29 hit numbers 8 remaining""
Anyone can let me know what are levels for: 1. spins appeared once. 2. spins appeared twice?
As JHM posted: nolinks://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9741/guttest1go5.jpg (nolinks://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9741/guttest1go5.jpg),
could anyone tell me why on spin number 36 he bet on 1 vs 1>? There was "0" sleeping 7x in row, as abovementioned law of third: at spin 37 we should have "0" about 12 times - when JHM bet on 1 vs 1 there was 15 unhit number so as I understand there was huge chance for "0" to hit as trot is extreme slow. Why then he bet 1 vs 1>?
Hi Alex,
Winkel & Azim went into alot of Q & A in the following thread, maybe this will help you, and give you somewhere else to post your questions.
nolinks://nolinks.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13756.0 (nolinks://nolinks.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13756.0)
Best Regards,
Anyone has a version of track.exe for GUT that can run in an iphone?
John
GUT is still alive and kicking.
Nice video at:
G-U-T.co
Por favor alguien de quienes han seguido este Post, habla Español, para intercambiar inquietudes?.
Desde ya muchas gracias!!!