Since roulette can't be beaten................

[Mr J]

@Crackers >> Although I agree with you 100%, you have to tone down the language a bit, sorry man.

Ken

[crackers]

Right you are Ken. Man - with x's like that I'm on a win streak.

[Mr J]

Do what I've been doing for 18 months or so.......you dont need approval from anyone if you are doing 'well' with this game. 'F' it, who cares?

I merrily go about my casino business regardless of...."you cant win".  Who has the time for all the arguing?


My results stay the SAME if I have people ripping on me AND if I have people on my side......SAME RESULTS.

Ken

[cheese]

There is no such thing as random, every event around us happens for a reason.

Probably the funniest thing I've ever read on a gambling forum.
Don't worry, when you get to Jr High and start wearing long pants
and stop calling your mother 'mommy', a whole new world will open
up for you. Until then you're on my ignore list. Buh Bye..

[TwoCatSam]

ReDsQuaD

Could you elaborate bit on this:  There is no such thing as random, every event around us happens for a reason.

When the ball lands in pocket 36, there is a reason?

Sam

[Nathan Detroit]

Sam ,

There certainly is a reason  why  the ball  drops  into pocket # 36............................BECAUSE IT`S THERE !

N>D>

[ReDsQuaD]

ReDsQuaD

Could you elaborate bit on this:  There is no such thing as random, every event around us happens for a reason.

When the ball lands in pocket 36, there is a reason?

Sam

Yes of course there is a reason. But of course there many different variable's. Lets take the rotor speed for an example. Lets say the dealer was spinning the rotor in the speed of 4-5 seconds per revolution for 50 spins. In those 50 spins we can identify roughly where the ball is going to land from our visual/initial prediction. If the dealer is spinning random rotor speeds, then it can get more difficult to determined where our edge is, but of course there are ways to deal with this. But anyway lets keep this as simple as possible. One thing to note, the number of spins to determined where our edge is, can vary on different wheels and different conditions etc. Some wheels it could be 10 spins, others 50. It just all boils down to the conditions of the wheel.

So the first thing we must do, is our visual prediction. To do this, we measure the speed and deceleration of the wheel to produce predictions.

Our next and most important part, is to determined how the far the ball is landing from our visual prediction (initial prediction). When the ball drops, it can do either roll around the rotor, hit a diamond, bounce around or just plonk straight into the visual prediction pocket
So in 50 spins with the rotor at 4-5 seconds per revolution, we must identify roughly how far the ball is landing from our initial prediction. So say our visual/initial prediction was 0, and the ball landed on 2, that's 6 pockets away from our initial prediction. Our next spin, our initial prediction is 6, the ball lands on 10, that's 8 pockets away from our initial prediction. So if after 50 or so spins, the ball has landed around 6 pockets left of our initial predction and 11 pockets right of our initial prediction, we now know where our edge is. So from this, we now know where to place our bets as we have solid data showing how far the ball is consistanly landing from our initial prediction. Scatter is of course different on al wheels. All we ever want and need, is predictable ball scatter. Some wheels the scatter can be a mess and therefore it would just be better to avoid it and go find an easier wheel to beat.

On this screenshot below, this is what our scatter chart could look like after 50 spins or so on an average easy wheel. We can see 0 is our initial prediction (blue). The yellow segments represents our betting area, its the pockets that show how far the ball has been consistently landing in from our initial prediction. So thats 6 pockets left of our initial prediction, and 11 pockets Right of our initial prediction. The white segments just represent other pockets that have been hit, but are not consistent enough to cover, but remember all we ever focus on is the pockets that the ball has consistently been landing in. But as you can see we already have a clear edge. So consider the white segments as a loss as we are not covering that inactive area. We only cover the most active area, and that's the yellow segments.



So our next prediction is 29, again we are covering 6 pockets right and 11 pockets left our of initial prediction. etc etc.

With this info, we now know where to place our bets and therefore have an edge over the 2.7%. Covering 15 numbers is considered to be a big edge. All you ever need is a small edge to overcome there edge.

Every wheel obviously gives out totally different scatter. And again the scatter can totally change on different rotor speeds. Anyhow, this is how roulette is beaten, increasing the accuracy of predictions!

Its not possible to determined the exact pocket the will land in, but again we have that data that shows over 50 or so spins where the ball has consistently been landing. So the concept is to bet 15 numbers on the area where the ball has been consistantly landing in from our initial prediction. To determine how many numbers to cover, just all depends on what the scatter looks like. When a new dealer comes along and spins a totally different rotor speed, then the scatter in most cases will be different. Therefore new analysis for that rotor speed. On some wheels, the scatter could remain the same regardless of any rotor speed. We also have to account for ball speed, but again I am just trying to keep this simple.

So the answer to your question, the ball lands in that pocket for a reason because of the momentum of the ball on that current rotor speed. This is just a basic explanation. You are best to contact Steve for more accurate reasons.

But that's why there is no such thing as random in roulette, everything is all about the physics of the wheel. Rotor speed is one of the most important factor to account for. In most cases different rotor speeds = different scatter. From this, you should be able to work out that roulette is not random.

What may appear to look confusing, once understood its really very simple. Just visit the link in my sig if you are unsure of anything.

[ReDsQuaD]

Probably the funniest thing I've ever read on a gambling forum.
Don't worry, when you get to Jr High and start wearing long pants
and stop calling your mother 'mommy', a whole new world will open
up for you. Until then you're on my ignore list. Buh Bye..

And that's your best defence? Not even relevant to roulette and what i was saying. You see, you cannot argue against me, you simply don't have the knowledge to argue! And again, facts cannot be argued.

Wake the f**k up.

[crackers]

And that's your best defence? Not even relevant to roulette and what I was saying. You see, you cannot argue against me, you simply don't have the knowledge to argue!

Let's see if you can deal with real scientific facts. I created a real world based RNG based
on the physics that is used to make prediction computers. Now I didn't use the actual
math formula. I used codebook type tables for velocity & size of ball combinations. Add to
that the human factor. It is impossible for a trained musician to keep perfect time. I know.
It is impossible to get accuracy from a dealer. It only takes a few milliseconds to make a
ball leave a sector on the wheel. With the modern wheels its virtually impossible now to
make a milliseconds guess that makes an accurate difference. So I programmed my real
world RNG to see if it could stand up to a large number test. Guess what? It's random.
Guess what else. So are the wheels at Weisbaton Germany. A wheel is nothing more than
a physical based RNG.

[ReDsQuaD]

Let's see if you can deal with real scientific facts..

They are scientific facts lol. If you did your proper research like I advised, you would realise.

So are the wheels at Weisbaton Germany.

Huh? What does wheels in germany have to do with anything?

Gizmo, the only options left I have in my mind to why you cannot understand something that is so simple - 

You are either : To dumb, to old that your brain is just not capable of taking in easy enough information, biased to your own system that is based on random Or you know what I am saying is valid, but again the truth is not relevant to you, because you spent your whole life believing in this random nonsense, therefore biased and slate people who say roulette is not random.

Ill properly go with the last option.

Oh yes. Gizmo, one last thing, I asked the same thing to your best friend Cheese, but he was incapable of answering. You know what a biased wheel is right? If you don't, a biased wheel :  The ball is landing in certain pockets more than probability dictates. OK, basic answer but easy enough to understand, even for you.  So please answer me this. HOW IS A ROULETTE WHEEL A physical based RNG when you encounter a biased wheel???

You total clown 

Yes, roulette is not random regardless of any method, I am just trying to make this example as simple as possible for you as you couldn't seem to understand what i said about Visual ballistics.

[Bayes]

Bit of a sweeping statement to say that Roulette is not random. Obviously, the game (as opposed to the wheel - the physical device) IS random because it's defined that way. The ball has an equal chance of landing in each slot on a fair wheel. Wheels can be biased, in which case you don't have a random game anymore, but even Steve doesn't claim that every wheel can be beaten. If I remember rightly it's somewhere below 50%.

In any case it's confusing to say that something is random, because random depends on what you know. Something which seems random to the average punter may not be to an expert wheel clocker.

[crackers]

Like Ken says, there's no point in arguing. Anyway There are no successful VB
players without the use of a very well built computer device to assist them. The
best part is that you think you can do it. So you get to spend your money finding
out.

[ReDsQuaD]

Like Ken says, there's no point in arguing. Anyway There are no successful VB
players without the use of a very well built computer device to assist them. The
best part is that you think you can do it. So you get to spend your money finding
out.

And as i thought, you could not answer me.

Yes indeed, you cannot argue facts. You can apply VB quite easily without a computer, its simply just more work recording data manually where as a computer device you have automatic charts built. Not that you would no, but yes using a computer is more accurate. Anyway, do you honestly think you are in any position to comment about VB and computer devices? You don't even understand the basics...

You don't need to spend money to find the facts, you just need to spend your hard efforts.

[ReDsQuaD]

Bit of a sweeping statement to say that Roulette is not random. Obviously, the game (as opposed to the wheel - the physical device) IS random because it's defined that way. The ball has an equal chance of landing in each slot on a fair wheel. Wheels can be biased, in which case you don't have a random game anymore, but even Steve doesn't claim that every wheel can be beaten. If I remember rightly it's somewhere below 50%.

No no, i think you mean 50% of the worlds regions computer play is legal.

In any case it's confusing to say that something is random, because random depends on what you know. Something which seems random to the average punter may not be to an expert wheel clocker.

[crackers]

Mission accomplished. Who says I wanted to answer you. I wanted you
to claim what you just ended up claiming. Now you have to own it.

Thanks

And as I thought, you could not answer me.

Yes indeed, you cannot argue facts. You can apply VB quite easily without a computer, its simply just more work recording data manually where as a computer device you have automatic charts built. Not that you would no, but yes using a computer is more accurate. Anyway, do you honestly think you are in any position to comment about VB and computer devices? You don't even understand the basics...

You don't need to spend money to find the facts, you just need to spend your hard efforts.

[crackers]

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