This is half a rip and the other half, a serious question. I do know that at some casinos around the world or the US (whatever) that 'no more bets' is called before the ball is spun. I would bet my nuts, the percentage of these casinos is SMALL. Question being.....if DS was this great way to play (you could make millions! :thumbsup:) why not have this rule at every casino?
It would save the casino ALOT of money, no? So many people (cough) have this skill of watching the dealers release point, rotor speed etc., it would make more sense to wave of betting EARLY. Also, how would the hidden computers be used if such a rule was enforced? >> Everyone gets 15-20 seconds to lay bets, no more bets is called. Then the ball is spun. Why does the casino NOT take more counter measures against such an EASY way to win? (cough) Ken
What is a dealer signature ?
O_o
First of all, whether they work or not, DS methods don't usually require betting after the ball is spun. You must be talking about VB.
Secondly, VB is not "easy", your lame system is (but I assume you were just being sarcastic as usual). Modern VB is rocket science to system players and those who have no clue.
Last but not least, are you serious? You really think the casinos will prohibit betting after the ball is spun just because 1 out of each 1000 (or so) roulette players is trying to play VB? Do you realize how that would slow down the action, especially on busy tables?
A decent percentage of bettors place their bets (or continue placing their bets) after the ball is spun, the casino would have 2 choices: Either increase the time for placing bets to allow all players to place their bets, slowing down an already slow game therefore decreasing daily return; OR keep the same betting time but accept that there will be less bets placed (since the late bettors won't be able to place/finish their bets), therefore decreasing daily return.
It's not worth it.
Good question.
Is dealer sig a pattern that a specific dealer achieves because of constant spinning? What does that mean? Does it mean that the same sectors are hit? Does it means that every spin might be 12 pockets CW from the last? Does dealer signature mean a certain distance from the number that the ball is released with certain dealers? If any of the previous mentioned scenarios then surely rotor speed must be a constant. So for a dealer to constantly spin a certain pattern the rotor speed must be 100% the same.'
Just my 2,5 cents
This is half a rip and half a serious answer. Someone as smart as ken should have been able to figure this answer out if he just took a couple minutes and thought about it.
Are the majority of roulette players DS players? Or impulsive gamblers? Are you telling me that it is in the casino's best interest to call nmb's prior or at the spin to thwart the half dozen DS players the casino might see in a couple months and lose all that extra revenue caused by impulse last minute betting by all the 100's and even 1000's of other patrons? It's the same reason they don't ban progressions. Progressions and impulsive late betting make the casino money. Use your head next time.
The question is somewhat rhetorical. You can correct me all you want but the MAIN question still remains. If watching the dealer, how he spins/release point etc. (call it HOWEVER you want) could be an ADVANTAGE to you....why would they NOT call 'no more bets' before the ball is spun? It would NOT slow down the game. Ken
"Are you telling me that it is in the casino's best interest to call nmb's prior or at the spin to thwart the half dozen DS players the casino might see in a couple months and lose all that extra revenue" >>> Yes. You mentioned a half dozen but I see no MATH from you (Davey-Jones) in regards to OVERALL loss from the casino. Soooo DS/VB (whatever) is a HUGE advantage for the player (cough)......how much (net) are these 'half dozen' guys taking in compared to the other moron bettors? Think about it a little better next time Davey-Jones, I thought you were a bit brighter than that? Ken
I love how he asks a question, you answer him, and then he acts as if YOU didn't understand the question, and rephrases/alters it.
Quote from: Mr J on July 01, 2010, 06:17:56 PM
It would NOT slow down the game. Ken
Okay, you know better.
"and rephrases/alters it" >>> Can you give me an example? I THINK what you mean is......you won't answer me based on not understanding my point/question. So to be POLITE, I try and ask it in a different manner BUT the SAME question. I'm still looking for an answer. This big bad DS/VB could wipe out casinos (lol), why not call no more bets, then spin? It would eliminate 'you guys' from making millions! :thumbsup: Ken
"It's the same reason they don't ban progressions" >>> Sure they do, kind of. Its called max payout. Ken
Tell us again how much YOU win ken? hahahahahahahahaha!
More than you (in terms of roulette). So for the RECORD, Davey-Jones, I can jot down for NOT answering. Cool, makes me look better. Ken
I gave you a pretty clear answer, but you pretend like I haven't. It's not the first time you do it.
Your sole purpose from such threads is not to receive an answer about something, but to merely try to look smart and discredit AP.
Why discuss with a person like you? Like Kelly says, there are much better things to do. You want to believe whatever pleases you and makes you feel better about yourself. :haha:
So here it is: AP doesn't work, never have, never will. There, that should sustain you for a few days (before the need comes back and you start another AP bashing thread disguised in a stupid question).
"I gave you a pretty clear answer, but you pretend like I haven't" >>> Instead of posting other NON-related items, could you PLEASE post your answer, again if needed? Short and to the POINT please. This is NOT your answer (you are trying to be funny) >> "So here it is: AP doesn't work, never have, never will." << Ken
"and discredit AP" >>> 100% true. No s**t, really? Ken :yahoo:
Quote from: Mr J on July 01, 2010, 07:08:12 PM
(you are trying to be funny)
No I'm trying to make you feel better, you obviously need it.
AP's are all losers, you make money more than all of them! You have the most real casino experience because you're the only one that visits real casinos!
;D
Bye.
(and thanks for the laugh, it's all I come here for these days)
Kind of interesting......you won't answer a SIMPLE question. :haha: Ken
There are some casinos where I'm no longer allowed to bet after the ball is spun, even though other patrons can.
Casinos will usually single out a long term winning player and issue countermeasures or a banning rather than changing the rules for everyone.
And for the record Mr. J.,
I have no doubt whatsoever that Davey Jones has won more than you have over the last few years. :)
DIFFERENT rules for different bettors? My SAME question still exists? I can ask it again if you wish. "I have no doubt whatsoever that Davey Jones has won more than you have over the last few years" >>> Roulette only? No way, sorry but good luck with sales today. Ken
I've met Davey before. I can tell you he's a stand up guy. Whereas you Mr. J, well let's just say I've read enough of your druken posts to size you up rather effectively. I'm sure you can give James Wendall and Spike a real run for their money. :)
I dont question his character. Still waiting for that answer...... :laugh:
What answer?
Ok, thats 3 AP (cough) people, for the RECORD, that refuse to answer. Do I hear 4? Ken
What is your question? Be specific.
I have no doubt whatsoever that Davey Jones has won more than you have over the last few years.>>>
LOL, whatever you say Herb. If Herb tells you the sun is shining, better look out the window cause it probably isn't..
Quote from: Herb6 on July 01, 2010, 07:57:24 PM
What is your question? Be specific.
Here's the question nobody answered:
"how much (net) are these 'half dozen' guys taking in compared to the other moron bettors?"
VB guys have taken several million.
Rather than slow the game down further it's easier to simply ban the long term big winners.
All you have to do is search, "Roulette" on google. You'll find information on the history of roulette documenting various episodes of vb players. If that's not enough proof for you, then you can read about it at rouletteresearch.com or interview with Kaisan in a casino magazine.
Quote from: Spike! on July 01, 2010, 08:01:52 PM
If Herb tells you the sun is shining, better look out the window cause it probably isn't..
Well yes actually.
If he says something roulette-related, you better listen and learn.
I sense that Mr. J has passed out drunk at the computer again.
"I sense that Mr. J has passed out drunk at the computer again" >>> Nope, I have to get up quite early. Ken
"VB guys have taken several million" >>> You just fu**ed yourself with that one, I'll respond on Friday. Hook, line and sinker, its a gift I have. Ken
STILL WAITING >>> "and rephrases/alters it" >>> Can you give me an example? Ken
"VB guys have taken several million.
Rather than slow the game down further it's easier to simply ban the long term big winners" >>> I'm confused on this one Snowman. It seems some of you are on both sides of the fence. Has taken in 'MILLIONS' but the casino will NOT alter how they do things at the roulette table? It would seem that calling no more bets EARLY would eliminate you AP (cough) guys and SAVE the casinos around the world, 'MILLIONS'! You also state the bannings. So which is it?........ You have already made millions, then quit for life on your terms?
You made millions and then was banned? You made millions, not banned yet? Which is ODD because by banning you guys, again as stated, it would SAVE the casinos around the world, 'MILLIONS'! Another point in regards to pissing some people off with the RULE of no more bets early. Would the casino really lose out all that much COMPARED to the millions it would save? EXAMPLE >> Bob Smith walks into the casino with his $300. Goes to the roulette table but the NEW rule starts today.
All bets must be made first, then the ball is spun. Bob is pissed (I do AGREE, some will not play because of this rule) and does not play. What does Bob now do? Heads out the door pissed off? Most likely not. Bob will probably put that $300 into OTHER casino games. This thought that the casino will lose a ton of money is BS. What is my point of this thread? Most casinos do not have this rule because it is of very little threat.....AP (cough). If a casino was losing millions over time because of AP (cough), new measures would be in place other than, 'you are banned'. Ken
Here's how the casinos tend to treat AP roulette players when they are winning too much. There's usually a progression to it. However, occasionally they will go straight to step six or seven.
1. Attempt to counter the player by changing the wheel speeds more frequently and by also changing the ball.
2. Begin calling no more bets earlier in the spin, provided that other players are not being inconvenienced.
3. They may lower the max table limit.
4. In rare cases, they may begin calling no more bets before the ball is spun. However, this pisses off everyone at the table and the casino risks losing players. In the US, people love to continue betting up until the last moment with impulse bets. Call no more bets before the ball is spun in the US at a full table and you could see a riot. In some cases they will tell just the AP player that their bets must be placed before the ball is spun.
5. The casino may stop offering the player comps to cover airfare, etc and freeze the comps available if they were earned while playing at roulette.
6. A shift manager may approach the player and, "Welcome them to play any game in the house, but to kindly stay away from roulette."
7. Security or the shift manager may approach the player and 86 them and read them the trespass act.
Now, you've asked how much have VB players won. Throughout history, they have taken millions. You can read about the history of these winners on the website that I mentioned earlier in the thread, and possibly in some encyclopedias. There is also the interview with Kaisan, a VB player that made the mistake of going public with his success. He has one millions as well.
There you have it Mr. J., Now feel free to point out the parts that you disagree with, and if you're lucky, someone might respond to you if they think you're coherent enough to comprehend it.
"someone might respond to you if they think you're coherent enough to comprehend it" >>> I hope nobody does, it makes me look better. Ken
"3. They may lower the max table limit." >>> So they might change this rule JUST FOR YOU GUYS but when you leave, they change the table limit back again? lol Ken
"2. Begin calling no more bets earlier in the spin, provided that other players are not being inconvenienced" >>> This I agree with and f**k the other players, it will save the casino MILLIONS! Ken
"this pisses off everyone at the table and the casino risks losing players" >>> I thought I covered this? 'Losing', means what? They walk out the door, NEVER to return to play other games? Ken
"you've asked how much have VB players won" >>> Where did I ask that? Ken
So which is it Herb?........ You have already made millions, then quit for life on your terms?
You made millions and then was banned? You made millions, not banned yet? If you have not made millions yet, I'm confused, why not? Ken
nolinks://nolinks.isa-guide.de/articles/9257_interview_mit_christian_kaisan_profi_roulette_spieler_aus_leipzig_genannt_der_sachse.html (nolinks://nolinks.isa-guide.de/articles/9257_interview_mit_christian_kaisan_profi_roulette_spieler_aus_leipzig_genannt_der_sachse.html)
That's in German, there's a translation here:
nolinks://nolinks.isa-guide.de/pdf/9649.pdf (nolinks://nolinks.isa-guide.de/pdf/9649.pdf)
There's also a German TV documentary about him that you can find on youtube (I believe).
This is only one of many documented cases of AP's (VB or bias players) going for the big hits and taking millions from the casinos (at the cost of being banned of course). The rest (like Herb) prefer to stay under the radar and make money consistently over many years. Like it or not you're literally nothing compared to these guys.
"The rest (like Herb) prefer to stay under the radar and make money consistently over many years" >>> Do you speak for him and all the other AP (cough) guys? Ken
The casino (I did not say roulette) would show an overall SAVINGS of millions if you guys were a threat. :sarcastic: Changing the rule....no more bets and then spin. They will NOT change the rule because you acorns are no where near anything that remotely resembles a threat. Sorry to rain on your parade boss. Ken
Quote from: Mr J on July 02, 2010, 02:55:59 PM
Do you speak for him and all the other AP (cough) guys?
No, not all of them. There ARE "pretend" AP's in forums. As with anything else, many talk the talk, but only a few walk the walk. This doesn't only apply to AP but other things like financial market speculation, etc.
"There ARE "pretend" AP's in forums" >>> This I agree with you 10000000000000000000000000000000% Ken
Quote"3. They may lower the max table limit." >>> So they might change this rule JUST FOR YOU GUYS but when you leave, they change the table limit back again? lol Ken
That's right. I've experienced this on more than one occasion :) In one case, they specifically said that I could only bet up to "x amount" while everyone else could bet higher. Then, they changed it for the entire table after the gaming agent came over. This completely pissed off the entire table. Later, they raised the table limit back up.
Ken,
I'm sure it's difficult for you to comprehend the casino's actions as I have described them. This is because your world is very small and your playing experience is very limited when compared to more experience AP players such as myself. I'm sure you have logged hundreds of hours in your little casino, but you have probably rarely traveled beyond there.
I've have experienced every example that I have listed above, first hand. In some cases, several times. :)
-Herb6
QuoteThe casino (I did not say roulette) would show an overall SAVINGS of millions if you guys were a threat. Changing the rule....no more bets and then spin. They will NOT change the rule because you acorns are no where near anything that remotely resembles a threat. Sorry to rain on your parade boss. Ken
The casinos would lose far more money than they would save. Casinos make far more money than I think you're comprehending, even though AP players have made millions over the years. Again, you're world is small compared to what is really happening out there.
Secondly, most of the time, the casino has no idea that a VB AP player is working a table. The don't know how or why the player is winning, and most of the time they simply assume that it was dumb luck if the AP is a polished player.
-Herb6
I guess its the usual he said, she said. I would love to spend some roulette time with a few of you AP (cough) guys. You have to look at it from MY point of view. You KICK ASS in the casino month after month and the casino does little about it or not enough about it. It makes zero sense. Ken
Ken,
Here's the thing, AP players don't hit the same table day after day, month after month. They move around to several casinos, not just one. I also have no doubt that all of them would love to spend time with you (cough). :)
-Herb6
Why don't you spend some roulette time with AP's then? Or would you turn into a Mr. Chips narc if you could?
"Why don't you spend some roulette time with AP's then?" >>> I would love to but I'm in a city with one casino. I would pay an AP guy if I was wrong (similar to a bet) and I dont mean like 4 spins of betting. I would s**t a brick if I was wrong. I would quit this forum if I was wrong. Ken
I'm never sure what these arguments are about. Ken, are you suggesting AP doesn't work?
Ken`s " cough" is getting contagious.
I like this thread, back to the top. lol Ken