VLS Roulette Forum

Hi All,


The file that is [highlight]attached to this post[/highlight] is a zip-archive containing three files.

distrac11.html
basedt11.html
dtout.html

This is [highlight]Version 1.1[/highlight] of the script.

[highlight]Regarding the news in this version: See the bottom of THIS post.[/highlight]

Un-zip and place the three files together in a directory of your choice.
Open [highlight]distrac11.html[/highlight] in your browser.

This is the interface:
[attachimg=#1]

There are some news - two options:
* Select if the spins are of only one direction
* Load spins - copy-and-paste or input manually

And you have to use the check-box for RELEASE-NUMBERS also if you load spins.


If the first dealer at Wiesbaden table #3, 01.02.2007, is loaded by copy-and-paste...

33     
10     
       1
2     
       3
      23
28     
6     
35     
      27
8     
      12
       7
      34
10     
29     
29     
22     
4     

...and "Show the Spins" is clicked, the resulting graph looks like this:
[attachimg=#2]


[highlight]NEWS in version 1.1:[/highlight]

Identify the session:
[attachimg=#3]
The output will have what you input here as a header (see the output above)

The output is Color-coded in segments of three pockets from the release-point.

1000 numbers (or pairs) may now be input for automatic processing.

The RESET-button is always active - and now also fully reliable...


Complete instructions in the next post.


Have fun!
KFS

Please alert me of any errors, TIA.

[attachimg=#1]
If your spins are of only one direction, you check this check-box.
For bi-directional spins, it shall be un-checked.


[attachimg=#2]
Select the direction of the ROTOR, for the first spin/result.
If your spins are for one direction, you select which one.
For Wiesbaden spins, the first spin for the day is always clock-wise.


[attachimg=#3]
Check this check-box if your spins/results are used as the next release-number.
This is the case when the croupier tries to throw the ball when the last winning number passes the hand.
The Wiesbaden croupiers throws in this fashion.

If your release-numbers are separate from the winning numbers, this check-box shall be un-checked.
This is the case when the croupier doesn't care when the ball is thrown.
You have to note the number yourself, then.


[attachimg=#4]
If you input results MANUALLY, this lay-out is for inputting RELEASE-NUMBERS.
You use it when the above check-box is UN-checked.
Otherwise a click on a number here will have no effect.

You have to input the release-number and the hitting number IN PAIRS:
First the release-number in this lay-out and then the hitting number in the lay-out below.
The same for ALL spins.

If you accidentaly click the wrong release-number you just have to click the correct one before you click the winning number.


[attachimg=#5]
If you input results MANUALLY, this lay-out is for inputting WINNING NUMBERS.

When you have input the first number, all buttons except "Cancel" and "* RESET *" are locked.


[attachimg=#6]
All winning numbers that are entered, are shown in these result-boxes.
The very first number is marked by an asterisk ("*")


[attachimg=#7]
You can copy-and-paste or enter numbers manually, into this box to have them all done in one go.

You may separate the numbers by anything (except a number ;)).
Space, Enter, comma... one or many... whatever.

If you use SEPARATE RELEASE-NUMBERS they are entered in sequence with the winning numbers.
The first number is considered a REALEASE-NUMBER.
The second number is considered a WINNING NUMBER.
The third number, a Release-number.
The fourth number, a Winning number.
The fifth a Release-number.
The sixth a Winning number.
Etc etc

And ALSO in that case: REMEMBER to UN-CHECK the check-box to the left (in the yellow square).


[attachimg=#8]
When you have entered spins into the input-box, you click this button and all spins are done in one go.

All buttons except "* RESET *" will be locked.


The "Cancel" button deletes the last entered hitting number (or number-pair) - also repeat.
You DON'T have to cancel only a release-number: Simply click the correct release-number before you click the hitting number.

The "* RESET *" button resets everything.
Use this button - NOT your browser's "Reload".




A short example of how the program works - manual input:

Let's use the start of the sequence in the previous post (Wiesbaden Table #3, 01.02.2007, the very first dealer):
33 - 10 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 23 - 28 - 6 - 35 - 27 - 8 - 12 - 7 - 34 - 10 - 29 - 29 - 22 - 4

As it's Wiesbaden spins and it's the first croupier for the day we can use the default settings.
- Wiesbaden alternate the spins and the check-box for one-directional spins is un-checked.
- The first result comes from a CW rotor direction and the radio-button for Clock-Wise rotor direction is checked.
- The previous hitting number is the next release-number and the check-box in the yellow square is checked.


Now use the LOWER lay-out to input the numbers.

Click "33" - this number will appear below the lay-out in the box for CW-results.
This is the first CW result for this croupier. We don't use it ("practice-spin" Wink).

Click "10" - this number will appear below the lay-out in the box for CC-results.
This is the first CC result for this croupier. We don't use it ("practice-spin" Wink).

Click "1" - this number will appear below the lay-out in the box for CW-results.
This is the second CW result for this croupier: A "graph" will be generated. It looks like this:
[attachimg=#9]

It shows the result when there was a Clock-Wise ROTOR direction and a Counter Clock-wise BALL direction.

The release-number was "10" (the previous hitting number) and the hitting number was "1" (that you clicked last) as indicated in the green-ish column at the far left.
The place of the release-number is symbolized by the white "V" in the heading.
The distance between those two numbers are -5 slots in the BALL-direction (the ball was 5 slots too short ("-") to reach the release-number).
This is indicated by the black square in the "-5" column and also by the black square being marked "-5".
The shaded red colour indicates the direction of the ball; counter clock-wise or right-to-left, in this case.

Click "2" - this number will appear below the lay-out in the box for CC-results.
This is the second CC result for this croupier. A "graph" will be generated. It looks like this:
[attachimg=#10]

The top part is the same as the previous.
The new part shows the result when there was a Counter Clock-wise rotor direction and a Clock-Wise BALL direction.

The release-number was "1" (the previous hitting number) and the hitting number was "2" (that you clicked last) as indicated in the green column at the far left.
The distance between those two numbers are -17 slots (the ball was 17 slots too short ("-") to reach the release-number).
This is indicated by the black square in the "-17" column and also by the black square being marked "-17".
The shaded red colour indicates the direction of the ball; clock-wise or left-to-right, in this case.

If you enter the complete sequence, you will end up with the "graph" I posted above.


You can SAVE the results as html-files.

I use Firefox on Mac and I do like this:

First I click-and-drag the mouse over a part of the "graph". (I select or "paint" it)
This has to be done or the interface will be saved instead.

Then I use the menu "File / Save Frame As..."
There's an option there: "Save as Web-page, complete". I don't change it.

But I DO choose a unique name for the file.
The default is the same as on of the program-files - that's why.




AND: Please - PLEASE - alert me of any errors!
TIA.

KFS

KFS

I have hunted all over the "Downloads" section for this software.  I simply can't find it.  Is there a ghost in my machine?

Sam

Sam,

:D

The very first sentence in the first post:

Quote

The script that is attached to this post

OK, I'll highlight it.


Have fun,
KFS

Hi all!

This program continues to amaze me. Today i've been tracking an running some spins from dublinbet through it, and everytime it seems there is a big difference between the patterns on the CW graph and the CC - One of them shows a pattern, the other doesn't...
Maybe this has to do with what Sam mentioned; if the dealer is left or righthanded... I dont know though, because I don't think the dealers on DB changes hand when spinning. I will look for this next time.
Have any of you guys tested this out? I would love to hear about your findings.

I have attached an example from today, this is not the best I have seen, but try to look at the CC graph and notice how many of the spins are on the plus side of the last hitting no. I think they tend to make an S-shaped curve aswell, but maybe this is just something I want to see... Hell there's even a pattern in the CW aswell. I'm seeing patterns everywhere these days... It's a conspiracy!...  :o


No, seriously I have a good feeling that this is something.


Best Regards
Kingpin

Hi Kingpin,

I'm glad you enjoy the script.

Myself, I'm still staring at patterns.  :o
But nothing conclusive, so far, in my view.

I'm using the Wiesbaden spins I have. During the week-end, the spins I posted in the "Actuals/Permanences" section will maybe be converted to a file w/o the dealer- and spin-numbers, for simple copy-and-paste.

I'm also only using croupiers with 15 or more results.
At the casinos here, the shifts are like 40-45-50 minutes and they spin at least every second minute.
(Ehhrrrmm... That is what I recall as it's nearly a year ago I moved out-of-town)


It's interesting that you use DB...
Are you using the last number as release?
Do you know that it's done that way? Or do you do it anyway?

The reason I ask is because I cannot see the release-number on TCS' videos...
Sometimes I can guesstimate but that's all.


Best regards,
KFS

Hi KFS,

Yes i'm using DB, and i am pretty certain that they are spinning from last spun no. and changing CW/CC every spin.
Here a dealer does around 50 spins or so before a shift, so you get some nice samples, but sometimes it's difficult to notice the shifts. I wish there could somehow be made an alarm program to alert you when there's a shift - think it's been discusssed around here before...

Twocat is not using DB in his videos, not sure if this was what you meant?


Best Regards
Kingpin

Hi Kingpin,

Quote

Twocat is not using DB in his videos

Sorry, I didn't express myself good.
I know he doesn't - I was thinking more about the quality of the video from the casino. The frames/sec.
I simply assumed that the quality is the same. Or close to.

/KFS

Three things....

KFS

I couldn't find my own butt if I weren't sitting on it!! 

Kingpin

Yes, the dealer alternates hands.  I feel this may be the cause for the variance in the charts.  Ever try to do something/anything with your non-dominate hand?  It's different than when you do it with the dominant.

How to tell if the dealer is actually waiting for the last-hit number to pass under her hand?  Watch closely!  If she is, you will see a noticeable pause with her holding the ball against the rail for a second or two.  Many times, at live casinos and at Microgaming, they are not even looking at the wheel at all.  I've seen many dealer spin while talking to the boss.

My videos are exclusively of the Microgaming wheel.  Doesn't matter which casino.

Sam

Hi folks,

At dublinbet they pick up the ball from where it last landed, then spins the wheel in one direction, and throws the ball in the other direction. This is done in the same quick movement, so i think this is as close to a spin from last spun number as it gets.

BR
Kingpin

QuoteAnd: Thanks for the information, I'm sooo sad that the information I got was DIS-information.

Too bad, really.
But maybe that explains why I haven't been able to find something in those files.

Well good news KFS, the last few days i've been watching some dealers on DB, And have done some tables with your nice program. I'm not sure if there is something really conclusive in them, but i have attached them to this post so you and everybody interested in this, can have a look, and share your findings.

The files are split up in two; Table 1 and Table 2. On table 1 the dealers are using their right hand when spinning, and on Table 2 their left hand.

It is hard work to monitor dealers like that for so long to get the spins, and make sure the cw, cc is correct. But it can be done. I will collect some more soon. Hope to get some sessions with dealers we already have tables with, so we can compare them. A few of the ones i got so far is from the same dealer, and i think there are similarities in their patterns, from the different sessions. But then again some are completely different. I would like to hear what you guys think, so please have a look at the attached files.

Best Regards
Kingpin

Kingpin and KFS

This has long been an interest of mine.  I am going to study these charts.

Great work, both of you!

Sam

Hi guys,

Nice posts!

Kingpin, I've had a quick look at some of the files.
I will study them during the week-end.

Thanks!
KFS

Hello  :)

Here's a few more charts i tracked and made on december 11.
If anyone is still interested, please have a look at them, they are attached to this post.

I've been thinking of how to exploit this. I think if you compare some sessions from a specific dealer they are still too different to make a conclusive "standard" pattern of that dealer. However there are some dealers that seem to be spinning more in patterns when others are completely random... This is my take on it.

What do you think of tracking 10 - 20 spins, then look at if theres a pattern and bet on maybe a
5-number sector (maybe bigger) according to that pattern.

Example: Lets say we put 20 spins in the tracker, thats 10 in the cw, and 10 in the ccw Graph. Then we see that 5 of the spins in the cw graph is between +10 & +15, so we bet for this outcome for the next x amount of spins... Just a thought. What do you guys think?

@ KFS

There was some Talk about using a 3-number sector when tracking DS in another thread, I think that is a really good idea and would be interesting to see the results if that could be coded in a tracker ;) ;D

Dont want to put presure on you, i know you're working hard to finnish your GUT tracker which by the way sounds very cool  8) Looking forward to that  :)


Best Regards
Kingpin

Kingpin

KFS has already created a sector tracker.  It tracks any size sector for any number of spins, either hot or cold.  It's a great tool for looking at sectors.

Sam

Thanks TwoCat, I wasn't aware of that. It is the one called wheel alert right?

Kingpin

Kingpin

I think there are two.  Don't know why.  One is wheel alert and one is called ALERTer.

Check them out.  They are great!

Sam

Ok will do, thanks  :)

Hi all,


The last days has been work around the clock.
The business ("cleaning up" at the end of a contract before Christmas), programming this DT and the GUTter and also have time for all the "normal" stuff :D

There will be time to relax soon - two more working days only and then free time till 2009!
:) :) :)


The new version of the DT is attached to the top post.
You will find the updates there as well (at the bottom of the post).

Note that the file to open now is "distrac[highlight]11[/highlight].html"


Anywayzzz... I had a hard time to find out a way to make three-pockets "sectors" and in the end found that color-coding was the only way.
I tried to separate the sectors by thicker lines but that wasn't doable.
Not without too much work for me, anyway...
This is html and JavaScript, you know.


Regarding the "alerters":
Alerter is tracing groups of numbers (Red, column#3, single-street #5)
Wheel Alerter is tracing sectors on the wheel


I also promise you, Kingpin, I really WILL look into what you have written in this thread and your files.
Just too much to do the last couple of days.


I attach a file containing the output from WB Table #8 ("air-ball") - 482 spins in one go.
If you're curious ;)


I hope all of you will enjoy the DistanceTracker!


[highlight]And I wish you all a Merry Christmas![/highlight]
KFS

KFS

You have written the perfect software to test a theory I posted ages ago.  "The TwoCat Poop on Dealer Signature." 

I'll get right on it! 

Thanks a ton!

Sam

Wow Sounds great Santa-KFS [smiley=Santa001.gif] My prayers have been heard  ;)

Looking forward to trying this out! What a nice christmas present! [smiley=christmas/120103_emA21_prv.gif]
Thank you VERY MUCH! [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

BR
Kingpin

Merry christmas and happy new year to all.

[smiley=christmas/921.gif]

Hi guys.

I am sooo  :-[ !
There is an error in the RESET-button.

(So much for "reliable now" -  ::))

Either you go to the top and download the package
OR
You just take the zip-file attached to this post, un-zip it and replace your "basedt11.html" by this one.


I'm So sorry and I hope this hasn't been too much of an inconvenience.

/KFS

Hi Kingpin, and all,

I hope you've had a nice time during Christmas.


I've had a thorough look at your files, Kingpin.
It was nice to be able to compare several sessions with the same dealer.
You've done a great job.

I agree with you in that it SEEMS to be possible to watch the first 5-10 spins of each direction and then decide from that.
Some make nice "clumps" that maybe could be worth exploring - checking if it's possible to bet "the same distance as last".


I've found it really good to look at the graphs with half-closed eyes.
It will make "clumps", "forks" and "diagonals" easily spotted.
;)


HOWEVER!
I have to say this: If the release-number is un-known, the patterns in your files are only random.
The release-number is essential; otherwise we don't measure the distance between the release- and hitting numbers (the physical power/aspect) - only the distance between two independent numbers.

And sadly enough I didn't find anything when I went down that route.


I've been quite active the last couple of days, studying "air-ball" results.
If the last hand-test (March 2008) also ;) ends positive I will start re-writing the tracker for automated testing of this.
It will be on a day-by-day basis but better than nothing.

(My friend who used to write programs for large-scale tests refuses to do it anymore - unless I prove in before-hand that it will not end in the usual -2.7%.
I understand him; he's been helping me a lot - also long before I even found this site. And I'm as tired of the dreaded -2.7% as he is - that's why I'm trying the "distance route" now...)

Hand-testing is too tiresome, I have to do it automatically. These files are like 200 - 300 spins in each direction. 30 files for a month.
And of course I make errors hand-testing - I'm only human.
Those red shades dance before my eyes.
I will finish the March-check tomorrow.
If it ends bad, I'll let you all know in this thread tomorrow night.

Otherwise I will write the tracker and post those results - and what I'm doing of course - in a week.
Or thereabouts.
(I'm enjoying a two-weeks payed leave from work and want to spend a lot of time off the computer, you know ;))


[highlight]HAPPY NEW YEAR, ALL![/highlight]
KFS

Hi Kon-Fu-Sed.

Mate let Me thank You for all the effort that You put into the Forum.

Even though I am hopeless at Computers & Don't use the trackers etc.

We really Appreciate that what You Guys do ,makes the Forum a better place for all Your Efforts.

Your Friend.

Lanky.

@KFS,

QuoteHOWEVER!
I have to say this: If the release-number is un-known, the patterns in your files are only random.

I am sure they are spinning from last spun number at DB. But the actual ball-release happens around the last hit number, within a range of +/- 1 to 2 pockets from the last hit number. so that is as good as it gets I would say. That's why I really wanted the "within 3-pocket tracker"  :)

Your experiments with air-ball sound interesting, looking forward to hear more about that. If we could make something conclusive with air-ball it would be great, because I think that it being mechanical, will show more persistent results than a human dealer.

And let me just second this which Lanky wrote earlier:

QuoteMate let Me thank You for all the effort that You put into the Forum.

Even though I am hopeless at Computers & Don't use the trackers etc.

We really Appreciate that what You Guys do ,makes the Forum a better place for all Your Efforts.

That is true [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Best Regards
Kingpin

@Kingpin,

Quote

But the actual ball-release happens around the last hit number, within a range of +/- 1 to 2 pockets from the last hit number.

That is very good info.
:)
Very nice.

Comparing different sessions of the same croupier, I am sure is the way to go ahead here.
So the more sessions you collect, the better for you.

But don't look for too long on those outputs - it can't be good for your eyes...
(Talking from experience ;))



@Kingpin and Lanky,
:)
Thanks!



@all,

The CC spins for March ended negative.

So far I've had the following APPROXIMATE (hand-test) figures:
January CW over +100u / CC over +400u
February CW over +800u / CC over +300u
March CW not -300u / CC not -450u

So March ended negative for both CW and CC...
Too bad, really.

I will make up my mind later about extending the test, and add to the program, but I've put a lot into this already so maybe, maybe just for the fun of it.
To see how long it takes before I am down as much as I've been up, at least...


But a lot of my enthusiasm for this project was abruptedly taken away by this I read in the "Dark Side Section" - regarding VB players:

Quote

Their activities as far as the casino is concerned is dubious and the casino has every right to ask them to
leave. [highlight]I have and would point them out to the pit boss without any hesitation.[/highlight]

(My bolding/highlighting)

Now... How fun is it to post something about how it may be possible to win in - sort of - a VB way, when a member of the board takes pride in pointing us out "to the pit boss without any hesitation"..?
I'm certainly not playing "the game the way it was intended to be played"... And so...
And so maybe he will also take pride in telling the manufacturers of the "air-ball" machines about any "flaw" I might find (rather think I find)?

If we don't play "the game the way it was intended to be played" we will be pointed out "to the pit boss without any hesitation"...
That's a nice attitude.
Really nice.

With fellow members like him; who needs enemies?

Sigh...

Well...

Maybe later,
KFS


/Roulette-odds/ "...are not really unfair odds at all and in fact they are very good odds." - Mr. Chips
(I think I just learned who´s really on the "dark side"...)

Guys,

In the light of this reply from Mr. Chips in the "Dark Side Section":

Quote

If you see something suspicious report it.

Yes I most certainly will!

... I ask you to NOT POST what you find, using the DT.
I will not.

(If there's a real interest in this, maybe we can find other ways to communicate)


However, I WILL show you how it is possible to use what you find, in a B&M casino.
You use a certain hand-held device that is accepted by the casinos...
(And it's not expensive at all)

I'll do that by the end of the week as some preparations have to be done - scanning and making examples and such.

[highlight]HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU![/highlight]

KFS

(Just a quickie between shower and off to New-Year's Dinner ;))

The "problem" is that in your terms I cheat.
The casino wouldn't know as they can't tell if I use the "device" in this or that way.


This is how I do when I "cheat":
By using my tracker I can get knowledge of a certain pattern of the wheel, of the wheel/ball combination or even the croupier/ball/wheel combination, that over a period of time give a positive net, unit-wise.

Whatever this pattern comes from (a broken bearing, a defect deflector, sloppy croupier or whatever), the way I interpret your posts in the "Dark Side Section", it is "cheating" to use this knowledge.

Now, I can't bring the tracker to the casino.
But I can transfer my knowledge of this pattern to this "device".
And it will interpret LIVE spins in a B&M casino and show me when the pattern appears AND when it's time to bet AND on which number(s) to bet.

So the "device" will help me "cheat".
Although it is perfectly accepted to use it. :D


Now, IF I continue to check those 2008 files, I will post the results but not the pattern itself or the other essential stuff.

What I meant by "not posting" was that we shouldn't post the patterns or whatever we find (maybe not something that will identify the wheel either) but of course great results are always fun to post.
;)


/KFS

PS. If you don't understand what I mean by "pattern" there's an example in the first post of this thread.

This system looks pretty nice. I just do not get what numbers to bet. Could you explain this, please!

Hi Handsome1,

Sorry: The tracker is not a system - it's a recording/charting tool.

You input spins and get a visual of the relations between the ball's release- and resting-points.
It's meant for mapping a wheel or a croupier.

Best regards,
KFS