If roulette results are totally independent to previous results and not connected to previous outcomes, what is the best way to play this in your opinion. What do you think is the best way to play the chaotic results the wheel produces?
Would you play the anti-trend? (betting against any obvious developing patterns or trends you see)
Would you play the chop, always playing for a change and never playing for a steak?
Or would you look at what has been happening as a whole and bet in general terms for it to continue, such as the most disorganized of the 3 E/C's?
Gizmo is inventing a magic box that will answer all your questions. All you have to do is wait. In the meantime, try and have a bet for every scenerio you see happening in front of you.
//
Quote from: cheese on April 04, 2011, 09:06:44 PM
Gizmo is inventing a magic box that will answer all your questions. All you have to do is wait. In the meantime, try and have a bet for every scenerio you see happening in front of you.
You see BBBBBB, OOOOOO & HHHHHH (relating to b/r, o/e, h/l) happening right in front of you, what's the next bet?
chaos is more than randomness.In a random sequence there are predictable events in the future.Though the ball has no memory you can predict R/B will be about 1 with a very small deviation.etc.
Quote from: schoenpoetser on April 05, 2011, 06:58:29 AM
chaos is more than randomness.In a random sequence there are predictable events in the future
You're wording it wrong. The randomness in roulette is not pure chaos. Pure chaos in randomness can be achieved by recording radioactive material as it decays. What we see in roulette is chaotic and random, but its flawed. Its not in its purest form. In decaying radioactive material, there are no patterns, no law of series. Its just chaotic random jibberish.
Quote from: schoenpoetser on April 05, 2011, 06:58:29 AM
chaos is more than randomness.In a random sequence there are predictable events in the future.Though the ball has no memory you can predict R/B will be about 1 with a very small deviation.etc.
What do you mean "R/B will be about 1?"
Quote from: cheese on April 05, 2011, 07:08:40 AM
You're wording it wrong. The randomness in roulette is not pure chaos. Pure chaos in randomness can be achieved by recording radioactive material as it decays. What we see in roulette is chaotic and random, but its flawed. Its not in its purest form. In decaying radioactive material, there are no patterns, no law of series. Its just chaotic random jibberish.
If you are saying decaying radioactive material is pure chaos consisting of NO patterns, then you are saying roulette is NOT pure chaos and consists of patterns.
According to you, there are no patterns in roulette, its just your imagination trying to make sense out of chaos.
Did some research and came across this referring to random and chaos.
"The game of Roulette is an interesting example that might illustrate the distinction
between random and chaotic systems: If we study the statistics of the outcome of repeated
games, then we can see that the sequence of numbers is completely random. That led
Einstein to remark: "The only way to win money in Roulette is to steal it from the bank."
On the other hand we know the mechanics of the ball and the wheel very well and if we
could somehow measure the initial conditions for the ball/wheel system, we might be
able to make a short term prediction of the outcome. Exactly this has been done by a
group of Santa Cruz students who called themselves "Eudemonic Enterprises". Their
story how they used chaos theory to conquer the casinos of Las Vegas and Atlantic City
is described in [Bass, 1985]."
It has not really anything to do with what is discussed on these pages. Its about a roulette computer using physichs as prediction.
Quote from: Kelly on April 05, 2011, 12:33:40 PM
It has not really anything to do with what is discussed on these pages. Its about a roulette computer using physichs as prediction.
Yes I am aware. The point was they used Chaos as the basis for their strategy.
No, chaos has never been involved. You might wanna read the book.
Quote from: Kelly on April 05, 2011, 01:46:16 PM
No, chaos has never been involved. You might wanna read the book.
The book is not the point, its irrelevant. The relationship between chaos vs. random is what's interesting. That was merely a quote, the relationship to those individuals and what they did is missing the point.
Maybe im getting too old for these boards. The relationship between chaos and random was not an issue for the Eudemonics strategy.
Never mind, probably just me missing the point.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 05, 2011, 10:59:38 AM
then you are saying roulette is NOT pure chaos and consists of patterns.
Roulette has what appears to be patterns, but aren't really. Real chaos has no patterns at all, its just a mess.
Quote from: cheese on April 05, 2011, 07:33:43 PM
Roulette has what appears to be patterns, but aren't really. Real chaos has no patterns at all, its just a mess.
Another contradiction. If roulette "appears" to have patterns and we can see them and identify them when they happen, then the game itself is indeed producing patterns.
When a person is consistently late for work, makes up tired excuses whenever they are suppossed to make a big presentation, and dodges important meetings, a boss can look back and see a pattern of irresponsibility. That person can deny no pattern exists till the cows come home, but past performance shows a clear pattern that's written in stone.
the bottom line is can you make a profit from patterns. as no casino will let you use a computer, its a waste of time to discuss them. i see loads of reds and blacks following . but how do i take advantage of this,
Read John Patrick
whats your point, Cookies? :)
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 05, 2011, 08:02:14 PM
Another contradiction. If roulette "appears" to have patterns and we can see them and identify them when they happen, then the game itself is indeed producing patterns.
Nope, not true. Clouds are random events that are constantly changing. Ever see what looks like a face in a cloud formation? We all have. Does that mean clouds are are producing faces? Hardly. They're producing random formations that APPEAR to be faces. Just like roulette produces results that appear to be patterns. In reality, the patterns are all in your head. Thats why they're not dependable to beat the game. If they were, it would have been verified 200 years ago, and so far it hasn't.
Here's a cloud that looks like Mark Twain. Wanna bet on it?
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_brIyg5OdFyg%2FSb-2JkmPyYI%2FAAAAAAAAJMg%2FCfaLEvG9ccA%2Fs1600%2F4.jpg&hash=2039b007e7312e4b3664fd3531085a950d8c139e)
Quote from: cheese on April 06, 2011, 12:15:20 AM
Nope, not true. Clouds are random events that are constantly changing. Ever see what looks like a face in a cloud formation? We all have. Does that mean clouds are are producing faces? Hardly. They're producing random formations that APPEAR to be faces. Just like roulette produces results that appear to be patterns. In reality, the patterns are all in your head. Thats why they're not dependable to beat the game.
Then if the only way to "beat the game" is through chaos, what is the best way to play a chaotic game.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 06, 2011, 12:24:45 AM
Then if the only way to "beat the game" is through chaos, what is the best way to play a chaotic game.
Look how they beat Blackjack. They invented another game, outside the game of BJ, called card counting. Just like roulette, BJ was considered unbeatable. I compare what I see going on in the sequence from a roulette wheel, to what I've experienced in thousands of hours of practice. Then I make an educated guess. No rules, chaos doesn't respond to rules. Just knowledge from experience. Instinct. The way a riveter doesn't fall off a high rise building, he's had thousands of hours of practice and instinct takes over.
Quote from: cheese on April 06, 2011, 12:34:21 AM
Look how they beat Blackjack. They invented another game, outside the game of BJ, called card counting. Just like roulette, BJ was considered unbeatable. I compare what I see going on in the sequence from a roulette wheel, to what I've experienced in thousands of hours of practice. Then I make an educated guess. No rules, chaos doesn't respond to rules. Just knowledge from experience. Instinct. The way a riveter doesn't fall off a high rise building, he's had thousands of hours of practice and instinct takes over.
And if chaos is the game, and you are not following patterns, trends, or streaks. What exactly allows you to make chaotic educated guesses?
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 06, 2011, 12:46:48 AM
What exactly allows you to make chaotic educated guesses?
Experience. I don't follow anything in particular, I follow everything. I see it all as one, not fragmented parts. Never think 'this is a good bet' or 'this is a bad bet'. Never wait for conditions to get better. With random outcome, there is no 'better' time to bet. First you have to learn to read the random. Betting before then us useless.
On internet I also play BJ.From the outcomes of BJ you can make statistic stats.I use theses statistic events to play BJ.It is very successful but the profit is very poor.Cart counting has no sense.
Quote from: cheese on April 06, 2011, 12:56:33 AM
Experience. I don't follow anything in particular, I follow everything. I see it all as one, not fragmented parts. Never think 'this is a good bet' or 'this is a bad bet'. Never wait for conditions to get better. With random outcome, there is no 'better' time to bet. First you have to learn to read the random. Betting before then us useless.
I have a lot of experience seeing random outcomes, I see changes, and I see overall trends. You are not following anything specific with regards to patterns, trends etc... you are looking at the game as a whole in a more general way and playing for it to continue or change if a change is evident.
Quote from: cheese on April 06, 2011, 12:56:33 AM
Experience. I don't follow anything in particular, I follow everything. I see it all as one, not fragmented parts. Never think 'this is a good bet' or 'this is a bad bet'. Never wait for conditions to get better. With random outcome, there is no 'better' time to bet. First you have to learn to read the random. Betting before then us useless.
how can u read the random? Gizmotron says the same, still u ridicule him. Can u give me example how to 'read random'?
Quote from: iggiv on April 06, 2011, 09:46:33 AM
>>how can u read the random? Gizmotron says the same, still u ridicule him.
>>
Thats because he can't do it. Look at the results of his 'Proof Demo', he bet 6 times and lost $360 and quit playing. He promised to make 100 bets. Does that sound like somebody who reads random? He says 'So what? I lose all the time.' So why didn't he keep going then? 6 bets is almost less than nothing.
Quote from: cheese on April 06, 2011, 12:56:33 AM
Experience. I don't follow anything in particular, I follow everything. I see it all as one, not fragmented parts. Never think 'this is a good bet' or 'this is a bad bet'. Never wait for conditions to get better. With random outcome, there is no 'better' time to bet. First you have to learn to read the random. Betting before then us useless.
Understood, but if you are only looking at the past 5 spins bc everything else is useless in a chaotic game, why the need to write down the results on pen and paper? It's fairly easy to see the random 5 spins deep, even 10 spins deep. I can understand writing down results 15-20 spins deep, but why only 5? Five spins can be read just looking at the marquee with a quick visual.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 06, 2011, 11:32:20 PM
Understood, but if you are only looking at the past 5 spins
I don't know what you're talking about. Who said anything about 5 spins? It wasn't me.
Quote from: cheese on April 06, 2011, 11:36:33 PM
I don't know what you're talking about. Who said anything about 5 spins? It wasn't me.
You once said you only look back 5 or 6 spins at most, anything further back is obsolete and useless when reading random.
Quote from: bombus on April 06, 2011, 11:43:45 PM
You once said you only look back 5 or 6 spins at most, anything further back is obsolete and useless when reading random.
He said: "why the need to write down the results on pen and paper? It's fairly easy to see the random 5 spins deep, even 10 spins deep."
I don't write down the last 5 spins, I write them down as they appear. I might have 40 written down at the end of a session. So what?
Perhaps you write down 400 spins, but you claimed to only consider at most the last 5 or 6 spins because older spins have no consequence to the current conditon of randomness.
Quote from: bombus on April 07, 2011, 12:13:50 AM
Perhaps you write down 400 spins, but you claimed to only consider at most the last 5 or 6 spins because older spins have no consequence to the current conditon of randomness.
I never spend more than an hour playing, so 40 is about it. I usually don't look at more than 5 or 6, why would I.
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 12:22:16 AM
I never spend more than an hour playing, so 40 is about it. I usually don't look at more than 5 or 6, why would I.
Exactly, you just said it here and you have said it before. You mentioned you only need to look at the past few spins and at most 5-6 spins deep. So back to the original question: if only looking at the past 5 spins to make the next bet, why the need to write it down on paper when anyone can easily observe and see the past 5 spins on the roulette marquee.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 07, 2011, 12:27:32 AM
why the need to write it down on paper when anyone can easily observe and see the past 5 spins on the roulette marquee.
What makes you think what I'm writing down is whats on the marquee? You really have to try and think outside the box. When I say I write down the results of the spins, that doesn't mean I'm writing down the numbers.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 07, 2011, 12:27:32 AM
Exactly, you just said it here and you have said it before. You mentioned you only need to look at the past few spins and at most 5-6 spins deep. So back to the original question: if only looking at the past 5 spins to make the next bet, why the need to write it down on paper when anyone can easily observe and see the past 5 spins on the roulette marquee.
I believe it is just good record keeping.
He takes home the actuals and runs then through RX, etc, for further study and practice. ( I do the same with spins I have collected). This he has also stated in the past.
Quote from: bombus on April 07, 2011, 12:34:07 AM
I believe it is just good record keeping.
He takes home the actuals and runs then through RX
I don't record the actuals anymore, I have too many now.
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 12:32:30 AM
What makes you think what I'm writing down is whats on the marquee? You really have to try and think outside the box. When I say I write down the results of the spins, that doesn't mean I'm writing down the numbers.
I never said you are writing the numbers, its obvious you play the E/C's, so you are recording r/b, h/l, & o/e or any other combination of E/C's you have devised yourself. The question is why, especially when its staring you right in the face on the marquee. If the past few spins are the only ones that matter in making the next bet, why bother recording the results?
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 07, 2011, 12:41:55 AM
The question is why, especially when its staring you right in the face on the marquee.
You have no idea whats staring me in the face on the marquee because you have no idea what I write down. All you see is numbers. I see something else entirely. And thats what I write down.
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 12:49:07 AM
You have no idea whats staring me in the face on the marquee because you have no idea what I write down. All you see is numbers. I see something else entirely. And thats what I write down.
I don't see numbers, I don't even pay attention to numbers. I pay attention to the colors red and black. And sometimes H/L or O/E. This is also what you pay attention to as you've mentioned more than a dozen times.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 07, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
I don't see numbers, I don't even pay attention to numbers. I pay attention to the colors red and black. And sometimes H/L or O/E. This is also what you pay attention to as you've mentioned more than a dozen times.
Look at it this way. If you were allowed to use a pen and paper in BJ, and you were counting cards, would you write down King and eight and Queen every time those cards came up? Hardly. You would have a complicated system of keeping track of what was going on so you could see where you were at all times. Thats what I write down in roulette. Its a system that tells me exactly where I am as the random events unfold. I never write down numbers.
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 12:58:04 AM
Look at it this way. If you were allowed to use a pen and paper in BJ, and you were counting cards, would you write down King and eight and Queen every time those cards came up? Hardly. You would have a complicated system of keeping track of what was going on so you could see where you were at all times. Thats what I write down in roulette. Its a system that tells me exactly where I am as the random events unfold. I never write down numbers.
That's what I was asking the first time, it took you until now to give an honest answer. You are writing down your own game, your own method that only makes sense to you, to be played with the game of roulette.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 07, 2011, 01:01:12 AM
That's what I was asking the first time, it took you until now to give an honest answer. You are writing down your own game, your own method that only makes sense to you, to be played with the game of roulette.
Frankly, you ask crappy, indirect questions. They're like half baked accusations, I have no idea what you're after.
A bit like the answers. Ducking and diving so no one can hang you on what you said earlyer. When a question is asked in East, you move against West and vice versa.
Quote from: Kelly on April 07, 2011, 02:18:59 AM
When a question is asked in East, you move against West and vice versa.
You have no idea what I do, you never have. You just think you know.
No one has, how could they possibly. You go to extreme lenght to avoid specifics you can get hanged on. If anyone ever found out, you would probably have to kill him. CIA style, although CIA is not so open mouthed about something that secret. They would just deny everything, which would be a disaster for your profile.
Cheese, i am not interested in arguments or quarrels. No accusations made. But Kelly has a point. This is a forum for exchanging info, not for a beauty contest. The goal here is not to prove who is the smartest and most handsome guy and who knows better, and who is silly, ignorant and ugly.
Kelly has a point. you are talking about Gizmo's achievements. And reading randomness. And after a straight question u never give a straight answer, u avoid specifics. But still discuss the subject. What is the point in this? i asked u: could u give some example of reading randomness ? No answer. And always like that. What is the point to discuss something u don't wanna talk about? I am not trying to accuse or shut u up. i got no problem with u whatsoever. i just don't understand what u r discussing. Yes, i saw a picture of a cloud with some kind of 'face'. Very interesting. But sorry, it is not about reading roulette randomness.
Quote from: iggiv on April 07, 2011, 03:21:52 AM
Yes, I saw a picture of a cloud with some kind of 'face'. Very interesting. But sorry, it is not about reading roulette randomness.
Of course its about reading randomness. Clouds are random, right? You're looking for faces in randomness and you found one. Isn't that reading randomness, weren't you looking for faces and found one? As far as answering questions, if I had a dollar for every unanswered question on this forum, I'd be rich. And let me ask you bluntly, Iggiv, what exactly has Gizmo taught you that you can use to beat roulette? You're always holding him up as an example, what have you learned from him?
i can't see the point being and spending time on a forum, talking knowledge, and avoiding answering questions.
Kelly got it right about "CIA style", it doesn't have any sense. If u r secretive about something u don't bring it up. if u bring it up u r not afraid to answer questions.
Sorry, but i see you r taking this forum as a beauty contest. I don't mind as long as u don't break any rules. Beats me why waisting time here instead of making millions with your valuable knowledge.
Quote from: iggiv on April 07, 2011, 04:18:38 AM
I can't see the point being and spending time on a forum, talking knowledge, and avoiding answering questions.
Kelly got it right about "CIA style", it doesn't have any sense. If u r secretive about something u don't bring it up. if u bring it up u r not afraid to answer questions.
Quote
I just asked you a question and you didn't answer it. And its a good question. You always hold up Gizmo as your example. What has he taught you? What have you learned from him thats helped you beat roulette? If you don't want to answer, I respect that. But I want the same respect in return. Where does it say we have to answer every question asked of us?
no, no obligation to answer, that's right. no complaints, Cheese. As I said -- I have no problems with u whatsoever,
I just don't understand the motives behind all this. It is just a personal point of view (but I feel that some others share it). i prefer u take it as a friendly conversation, no more than this. u have right to talk about anything and
keep silent about anything. As long as there are no personal insults (which i don't see here).
from Gizmo I haven't learned anything so far (unfortunately I did not even have time for it), but I feel that he has some desire to contribute. not like u, sorry.
I do not understand this discussion.Mathematically there is no difference between random betting and a system.For random betting you need no sense.A monkey can do it.Playing a system gives more pleasure.A visit to the casino and playing small samples can be profitable
Quote from: schoenpoetser on April 07, 2011, 05:16:18 AM
I do not understand this discussion.Mathematically there is no difference between random betting and a system>>
Who bets randomly? Not me.
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 05:35:19 AM
Who bets randomly? Not me.
proof? Nothing. only words. I can tell stories that i fly to the Moon every weekend. or am a Hollywood star. U tell about reading randomness. just like Gizmo. But Gizmo still tried to do something to show it. u don't
Cheese, sorry I removed one of your messages by accident.
cheese: Sometimes I have the feeling you write in riddles.Please tell me the basic of your betting.
Quote from: schoenpoetser on April 07, 2011, 11:47:54 AM
cheese: Sometimes I have the feeling you write in riddles.Please tell me the basic of your betting.
He won't. That's a point. It is just a talk for talk sake. "Gizmo can't read randomness, Cheese can". It never goes beyond this. No proof, no concrete ideas. But u can see a cloud picture. Which looks a little like "Mark Twain's face".
That's Cheese' point about reading randomness.
Quote from: schoenpoetser on April 07, 2011, 11:47:54 AM
cheese: Sometimes I have the feeling you write in riddles.Please tell me the basic of your betting.
I look at past results and organize them into the game I play within the game of roulette. I don't write down the numbers, I write down what the numbers mean to the game I'm playing. Bombus had a good example. He plays Tic Tac Toe inside the game of roulette. I do something else. Feel free to make up whatever game you like. Think outside the box.
Quote from: iggiv on April 07, 2011, 11:25:13 AM
proof? Nothing. only words.
You want proof? You can do it yourself. Bet random against random by putting 5 black marbles and 5 red marbles in your pocket and draw one out and bet that color. Put it back draw another one. Do it 100 times. You'll find that you're breaking even, it doesn't work. So no, I don't bet randomly, why would I.
I think I am too old for this forum.I try to understand,but I don`t succeed.Cheese said ,he is not playing randomly.With my poor sense , my conclusion is ,he must has a plan.
Cheese I have the next real sequence: 36,19,14,28,3,24,12,12,26,0.17,34,13,5,32 last spin 4.Tell me your bets after 4 and give an explanation.
my bets.after4.6.18.
Roulette isn't random.
its in the hands of God. if the God says " i want 40 blacks" there gonna be 40 blacks in a row. So far he has never said it though
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 09:46:06 PM
I look at past results and organize them into the game I play within the game of roulette. I don't write down the numbers, I write down what the numbers mean to the game I'm playing. Bombus had a good example. He plays Tic Tac Toe inside the game of roulette. I do something else. Feel free to make up whatever game you like. Think outside the box.
Does your game take advantage of the sections already laid out on the table or have you created a completely new game?
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 11, 2011, 08:39:11 PM
Does your game take advantage of the sections already laid out on the table or have you created a completely new game?
The layout on the felt is meaningless.
Quote from: cheese on April 11, 2011, 11:28:45 PM
The layout on the felt is meaningless.
So the table is the fraud, the table is there to just confuse regular punters.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 11, 2011, 11:49:17 PM
So the table is the fraud, the table is there to just confuse regular punters.
On the contrary, its there to give you a place to make a bet. It has no meaning, its a betting layout.
Quote from: cheese on April 11, 2011, 11:54:34 PM
On the contrary, its there to give you a place to make a bet. It has no meaning, its a betting layout.
Is each E/C importatnt to be seen as a seperate event from the other E/C's or do they all feed off of each other where information from one stream "could" effect, or show coincidences to another stream?
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 12, 2011, 12:20:38 AM
Is each E/C importatnt to be seen as a seperate event from the other E/C's or do they all feed off of each other where information from one stream "could" effect, or show coincidences to another stream?
All spins are independent events. Somebody decided 16 is red. Somebody decided its even. And somebody decided its low. How could and of those non related decisions be related to each other.
Quote from: cheese on April 12, 2011, 01:17:13 AM
All spins are independent events. Somebody decided 16 is red. Somebody decided its even. And somebody decided its low. How could and of those non related decisions be related to each other.
No, not specifically related to each other in that sense, but in the sense of what each one of them are doing. For example if O/E is producing heavy chop, is it likely that another Even chance is doing something similar such as R/B producing chop (rather than streaks).
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on April 12, 2011, 01:20:56 AM
No, not specifically related to each other in that sense, but in the sense of what each one of them are doing. For example if O/E is producing heavy chop, is it likely that another Even chance is doing something similar such as R/B producing chop (rather than streaks).
Think about what you're asking. How can it be likely another EC is doing the same thing if they are in no way related. They do it, they don't do it, its random.
If I analyse randomrows ,I translate the number row in randomrows for all ECs,the dozens ,columns sixline etc.
Between the different sequences there is no connection Every row you can study on his own.
Try to learn more about the features of randomrows to solve my puzzle.There is much to learn.
Cheese, your winning rate is amazing. U bought even more cheese. U get more and more cheese all the time.
at this crazy rate I won't be surpised that u gonna own all Swiss cheese industry soon.
When it comes to cheese.... He's full of it.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :laugh:
VKM
he doesn't like to share his cheese. All for himself :). But he will always tell u that u eat wrong one.
Quote from: iggiv on April 13, 2011, 12:34:57 PM
U bought even more cheese.
I'm always afraid of a cheese shortage.