Progressive unique patterns

[gizmotron]

I'd need a link from someone but you as proof - a third party scientific magazine would do fine - something that is written in English and for the lay person.

A simple demonstration should easily prove your contention - name the place and time and I'll be there.

I just named it dork. I said right here with the numbers encrypted and posted here before the session starts. Then after the demonstration is done we can all see if the session moderator cheated or not. But you went dark and silent. Perhaps you read this far and discovered that you are a pest too.

[MauiSunset]

As usual, Gizmotron has only succeeded in making himself look stupid. 

In no way can predicting roulette numbers be considered a legitimate application of cluster analysis. As Maui says, random numbers have been an active area of research for many years, and especially recently because of the link with cryptography and computer security. By definition, random numbers have no characteristics which can be exploited, if they did, they wouldn't be used for security purposes. You're much better off focussing your efforts on either money management or preferably physics based approaches, finding meaningful patterns is simply a dead end. 

I don't pretend to have mastered Roulette - don't know if I ever will.  You have NO control of the outcome.

Blackjack is a totally different animal where you have lots of control over - there are proven systems that can be used which give you a fighting chance of having a profitable evening; but lady luck can still smack you upside the head.

That doesn't mean you can't do a lot to improve your night playing Roulette.

But asking for Nobel Prize level discoveries is not a rational thing to expect from internet chat rooms.

[MauiSunset]

I just named it dork. I said right here with the numbers encrypted and posted here before the session starts. Then after the demonstration is done we can all see if the session moderator cheated or not. But you went dark and silent. Perhaps you read this far and discovered that you are a pest too.

Not sure why all the cloak and daggers stuff - do what John Gold did and demonstrate in real time with a live Roulette wheel and in the live chat room above.  It's much easier and you could do it in just a few minutes from now.  The live wheel turns 24/7 and the live chat room is open 24/7 too.

But I await your demonstration.....

[gizmotron]

I don't pretend to have mastered Roulette - don't know if I ever will.  You have NO control of the outcome.

Yes, you do have control. If the conditions are bad, a notion that I say exists that is, then you can get up and leave the table. You have control of the outcome. I could go on and describe many different conditions that you can control. But the topic of this thread is about using very rare patterns to exploit the fact that they are very rare. That in itself is and expression of control. I'm saying that conditions that are recognizable can be controlled. Even you imply control with the use of MM. Let's get real.

[MauiSunset]

Yes, you do have control. If the conditions are bad, a notion that I say exists that is, then you can get up and leave the table. You have control of the outcome. I could go on and describe many different conditions that you can control. But the topic of this thread is about using very rare patterns to exploit the fact that they are very rare. That in itself is and expression of control. I'm saying that conditions that are recognizable can be controlled. Even you imply control with the use of MM. Let's get real.

I guess what I'm saying is that once the Roulette ball spins you are locked into your bet and can't change it.  In Blackjack/craps you can modify your bet up and down while the hand/session is being played - that kind of control.

I wish you luck in your demo, if you don't succeed try again.  If you can demonstrate a couple of profitable sessions you will have me reevaluating my beliefs in Random Numbers.

Believe it or not I'm here to learn something and I realize that the reason they call it gambling is that the outcome is highly questionable, even under the best of circumstances.

Good luck....

[gizmotron]

Not sure why all the cloak and daggers stuff - do what John Gold did and demonstrate in real time with a live Roulette wheel and in the live chat room above.  It's much easier and you could do it in just a few minutes from now.  The live wheel turns 24/7 and the live chat room is open 24/7 too.

But I await your demonstration.....

The time between bets is far too short for my needs. The only time I get rushed like that is when I'm playing along at a real casino. I know this for sure. I've spent time using chat and the Dublinbet live wheel. But I had to make answers to why during those chats. I need at least 30 seconds after the last spin is known and the last chance to place a quick bet. Can you guarantee that, including the internet lag? I just have not spent that much time at an on-line casino. Can we go on for 120 spins? The encryption is so that the numbers will really be the numbers and not some cheating by anyone. I require that.

[MauiSunset]

The time between bets is far too short for my needs. The only time I get rushed like that is when I'm playing along at a real casino. I know this for sure. I've spent time using chat and the Dublinbet live wheel. But I had to make answers to why during those chats. I need at least 30 seconds after the last spin is known and the last chance to place a quick bet. Can you guarantee that, including the internet lag? I just have not spent that much time at an on-line casino. Can we go on for 120 spins? The encryption is so that the numbers will really be the numbers and not some cheating by anyone. I require that.

If your system won't work in a real casino or on live Roulette what good is it?

You have at least 30 seconds between spins in all of these.

120 spins is a couple of hours and John did that the other day with no problems - he had too much time between spins.  I suggest you practice first.

[MauiSunset]

Speaking for myself, someone who doesn't believe ANY patterns occur in random numbers, your technique is no better than just one random sequence - the next Red or Black is 50/50 and it makes no difference what came before.

None at all....

P.S.
Let's say you brought $1,024 dollars with you and bets were $1 - probability theory says that if you bet Red and use a Martingale you are in for a heck of a night.

Each win would be of the form $1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1,024 or you could have to see 10 Blacks in a row before you collect your $1 winnings.  Just this morning I saw 10 Blacks in a row in 30 minutes of testing.

Unfortunately the table limit of $250, or whatever, will cut you off at the knees.

You probably would last 60 minutes before being wiped out and the maximum winnings might be $5.

So the real question is NOT whether a Red or Black comes up it's how much are you willing to lose to win $1?

[gizmotron]

If your system won't work in a real casino or on live Roulette what good is it?

You have at least 30 seconds between spins in all of these.

120 spins is a couple of hours and John did that the other day with no problems - he had too much time between spins.  I suggest you practice first.

I will start practicing after Feb 22 - 24. My internet provider was bought out by a better company this month. I'm going from a wireless system powered by 3 T-1 lines to 7 T-1 lines. So fro the next few weeks my access is intermittent and sometimes as bad as a dial up system. That will give me time to power test the rare and changing patterns only used once technique. I want to see if a one time used rare pattern can work better than the math says it should. It's an interesting idea.

[MauiSunset]

I will start practicing after Feb 22 - 24. My internet provider was bought out by a better company this month. I'm going from a wireless system powered by 3 T-1 lines to 7 T-1 lines. So fro the next few weeks my access is intermittent and sometimes as bad as a dial up system. That will give me time to power test the rare and changing patterns only used once technique. I want to see if a one time used rare pattern can work better than the math says it should. It's an interesting idea.

Great!  I look forward to you announcement.

I travel quite a bit and use the Sprint Evo which gives me 5 MB per second while traveling if there is 4G in the area.  I tether it to my laptops and netbooks while traveling and I don't have a problem with live Roulette with it.  3G is limited to 400K and that would definitely be a problem.  Just the other day we had a snow storm that knocked out power to our house for 3 hours and used the Evo with no problem to do my normal work.

So you might have a solution right in your pocket....

[MauiSunset]

***************the rare and changing patterns only used once technique******************************

col1879 TM, copyright, All Rights Reserved

******************************So the real question is NOT whether a Red or Black comes up it's how much are you willing to lose to win $1?******************************

The patterns I am using ARE random, that's the paradox. I am essentially picking random numbers and making my next decision based on a win, lose or break even outcome.

A straight up Martingale of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 etc (table limits) like you say would be a quick disaster and lots of small profits will eventually be eaten up by one big loss. What I am trying to do is ride the storm using a Fibonnacci-thingy type progression (1 left on a win, stick on an even outcome, move one right on a loss) and hope to get lucky! Coupled with good money management and regular ratholing of profits then this could be worth while. What you say MauiSunset?

I dare say that no matter what random sequence you pick it will show up that night!

Pick a 10 event sequence of Red and Black and it won't be long before it shows up.  We are so used to looking at 8+ Reds or Blacks show up but 8+ sequence of ANY random numbers shows up just as fast.  It's like the gambling gods are waiting for you.

[MauiSunset]

*******but 8+ sequence of ANY random numbers shows up just as fast*************

That is what I am betting on, I want them to show up!

In a 6 hour session the following 8 event strings will show up:

RRRRRRRR

BBBBBBBB

RRRRBBBB

BBBBRRRR

All will show up - easy.

So what?

They will show up on the table next to you, on the internet, everywhere Roulette is played while you play your 6 hour marathon.

In fact, ALL combinations will show up of Red and Black 8 events deep in those 6 hours.

When you sit down for the night, the first spin will be event 8 of some set and the next spin will be event 8 of another set - they are up on the Marquee.

Knowing that all possible combinations will show up in 6 hours does what for you - you already know they will happen.

[MauiSunset]

*************In a 6 hour session the following 8 event strings will show up:RRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBRRRRBBBBBBBBRRRRAll will show up - easy.****************************

Wrong, technically, you could get all Reds for 6 hours and no blacks.

So what?

Looking at past random outcomes is something your mind wants to do - it wants to find patterns for you; that's how our brain is wired and you can't turn it off.  It is an organic pattern matching computer that is unbelievable - we don't have the slightest idea how it really works.

No scientific evidence has ever been presented and proved that a set of random numbers has patterns that can be used to forecast future random events - its never been done.

Yet that's what 95% of Roulette systems are based upon - junk science, the other 5% are based upon even weirder concepts.

My contention is that for the game of Roulette ONLY money management and lady luck can help you.

I'd offer a reward for anyone proving there are patterns in random outcomes of dice or Roulette wheels but there is no need to - the Nobel Prize for Mathematics comes with a $1,000,000 cash prize.

Honestly folks, if you have found the secret to random numbers just publish it, get a patent, and you will become a zillionaire by the end of the year.  That's what folks who claim they have cracked random numbers are boasting about - and I just don't think a person who could actually make this breakthrough is going to be here in a Roulette chatroom.

Let's get real folks.........

[Mike]

My contention is that for the game of Roulette ONLY money management and lady luck can help you.

Actually, the belief that money management can help in the long term is also junk science. Think about it, using a martingale progression means that sometimes you're betting 1 unit, sometimes 2, sometimes 4, and so on. Over time this amounts to the same as flat betting those respective amounts for short periods. You will be betting 1 unit more often than 2 units, 2 units more often than 4 units etc, but in the end the result is the same as if you were betting whole sessions for 1 unit, 2 units... ie; flat betting, and flat betting will not give you a profit unless you have an edge. Merely fiddling with the stakes cannot give you a true and consistent edge, how can it? the edge is the difference between your chance of winning and what the house pays you, and how can this be affected by the AMOUNT you are betting at any given time? Once you have an edge, then money-management can increase profits, but first you have to find a way of negating the house advantage. Any professional investor or speculator will tell you the same thing.

Look, the payouts are set by the casinos on the basis of a RANDOM game. The random game generates all kinds of statistics and patterns, but ALL of these are accounted for in the payouts, so studying statistics is not going to give you an edge, get it?

[MauiSunset]

Actually, the belief that money management can help in the long term is also junk science. Think about it, using a martingale progression means that sometimes you're betting 1 unit, sometimes 2, sometimes 4, and so on. Over time this amounts to the same as flat betting those respective amounts for short periods. You will be betting 1 unit more often than 2 units, 2 units more often than 4 units etc, but in the end the result is the same as if you were betting whole sessions for 1 unit, 2 units... ie; flat betting, and flat betting will not give you a profit unless you have an edge. Merely fiddling with the stakes cannot give you a true and consistent edge, how can it? the edge is the difference between your chance of winning and what the house pays you, and how can this be affected by the AMOUNT you are betting at any given time? Once you have an edge, then money-management can increase profits, but first you have to find a way of negating the house advantage. Any professional investor or speculator will tell you the same thing.

Look, the payouts are set by the casinos on the basis of a RANDOM game. The random game generates all kinds of statistics and patterns, but ALL of these are accounted for in the payouts, so studying statistics is not going to give you an edge, get it?

That could be for Roulette and Craps - don't know.  For BalckJack the odds do favor you using the newest BlackJack tables - those tables are on the internet and you must do more work to bring the odds over to your favor - the plastic coated cards that the stores sell in Vegas are using the old tables and the house has a 0.64% edge.  nolinks://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/house-edge-calculator.html  European Roulette has 4 times the house advantage that you must overcome just to break even.

I'm hoping that money management can help with Roulette and Craps but flat betting has to be profitable before you can add money management "on top" of the system used to leverage that system.

You bring up a very good point, and the reason I look at Roulette as still a form of entertainment in between BlackJack sessions....

[MauiSunset]

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