Everyone has their own timeline. Playing the game changes the game.

[winkel]

Not to forget, others playing the game changes your game

so it is random and it is effected by nothing or by the same million effects that are always present.

Randomness is affected by the observer.

so a person effects the game by just being at the table, or not being there?

to a wheel with physical defects.

so only VB-players are effected, not the others!

[Herb]

No Winkel, I think everyone and everything has an effect.
Meaning even VB players are affected.

[Spike]

Look, its the same as a scientist doing an experiment. Its long been known that he cannot conduct the experiment and erase his input. He's a vital part of it whether he wants it or not. Its the same in gambling. You can't do anything about it, so quit worrying.

[bliss]

IMO this is one of those propositions that seems interesting on the face of it, but really it's meaningless because there is no way it can be tested or proved one way or the other. You will never know whether an outcome was affected by the participation of a player, because you will never be able to recreate those same conditions with a player absent (or present). I think this is more or less what Spike means.

[Boo_Ray]

what about online casinos?
are there any quantum effects in action?
does spamming the chat effects on dealer and outcome?
does simply placing bets have any effect?

[Ulysses]

It's called entanglement? Schrodinger's thought experiment (Schrodinger's Cat) me thinks? A pussy cat in a box thought experiment. Will the cat be alive or dead when you open the box. Or will your number land when you enter the toilet and exit the table or not? That's a costly flush what ever you believe. hehe

[Spike]

 You will never know whether an outcome was affected by the participation of a player, because you will never be able to recreate those same conditions with a player absent (or present).>>>

Exactly. So the information that everything effects the random outcome is almost useless information and not worth wasting your time on.

[Mr J]

I dont know if I agree with this as much as previous posters. If you DO agree, then that means you should not be a TESTER of methods using actuals or RNG. If I listed 200 actual numbers, can you spot for me where someone went to the bathroom, or a dealer change or someone colored in or a new buy in etc etc? If you cant do this (you can not) then whats the big deal about small factors, this is nothing more than a "what if" thread/question. Granted, it MAY be true, but its meaningless.  Ken

[Spike]

Granted, it MAY be true, but its meaningless.>>

Its like the weather, might as well enjoy it because you can't change it.

[Jakkalsdraai]

Nice post herb 
What do you think about airball roulettes, does your play have any effect on outcome?

cheers

yeah mate i think that is not changable. that is a machine doing exactly what it's doing spin after spin and humans cannot affect it........except if the machine screws up, jamming while u feeding it money and the machine tilts........well then u have had an effect lolol.

No Winkel, I think everyone and everything has an effect.
Meaning even VB players are affected.

Herb i do not know much of vb. But don't u wait for the ball to be spun then calculate and then place your bet? I mean vb players should then theoretically change with the event happening. Surely using crossovers etc. should nullify whatever events happened prior to it.

cheers
jakk

[geoff365]

The future cannot be altered.

I decide to watch the wheel spin. That decission has been made before I do it. I cannot alter the outcome.
It's life spanning out.

So does charting really work? Is it effective? Is it worth while?

[Boo_Ray]

So does charting really work? Is it effective? Is it worth while?

Why charting wouldn't work?
well It depends for what kind of stuff you are going to use that numbers..

[gizmotron]

So does charting really work? Is it effective? Is it worth while?

Does a random act of causing any delay in the dealer's spin, a random event from spin to spin, added to an already random acting mechanism, have a reducing effect on it being random? Is it not just more random? All that has taken place is an added layer of randomness. This is the kind of thing that makes random.org tables more accurately random.

If the purpose of charting is to monitor the state of randomness then charting really works. If the charting is to discover dealer signature then how could it be effective. It would be effective dealer signature monitoring applied to a layer of randomness for a random set of results. You need a chart for charting the delay effect of extraneous factors. Good luck with that. The c**ktail waitress asks for chip exchange for tips, the new guy buys in, the craps table startles everyone for a half a second, etc...

[Spike]

The c**ktail waitress asks for chip exchange for tips, the new guy buys in, the craps table startles everyone for a half a second, etc...>>>

You snatch the ball out of the dealers hand and throw it across the casino. None of it can be charted so its an impossible task.

[Mr J]

 "None of it can be charted so its an impossible task." --- I agree.  Ken

[Mr J]

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