VLS Roulette Forum

Forum Friends and Friendly Freaks.......

I'm so sick of cold number testing, I'm going to bet real money for a while. 

[table=,]
Date, W/L,Running Total
10.15.8,30,30
[/table]

Be sure to click screen until large view comes on and then click enlarge on the right/lower side.  For a good view, click on the left "High Definition" and leave your browser running for about an hour while it optimizes.  You may reduce your browser, open another and go about your business.  I am working to find a better, clearer way to post.

nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/a791d4b61c1ee42e/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/a791d4b61c1ee42e/)

In the future I am only going to show the initial balance and the winning spins.  No need to waste your time looking at losers.

Sam

No movie.......
[table=,]
Date, W/L,Running Total
10.15.8,30,30
10.16.9,42,72
[/table]

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 16, 2008, 01:28:22 PM
No movie.......
[table=,]
Date, W/L,Running Total
10.15.8,30,30
10.16.9,42,72
[/table]

TCS,

With all the new DL's for the GUT which one are you using that you think is the most effective?  The original GUT tracker with the black screen?  Also, why wait for a slower real live number wheel casino when a RNG casino is quicker for testing or even real money play?

mad

I use Track2 by droidman.  I like live.  I may try it on RNG.

Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 16, 2008, 09:33:50 PM
mad

I use Track2 by droidman.  I like live.  I may try it on RNG.

Sam

I've been looking for that but can't find it in the download section.  Can you post the link here for me?

Thanks

mad

I cannot find it in downloads either.  Since it's droidman's software it would be up to him to put it up. 

I don't know where I got it!

Sam

nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=168 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=168)

here is V2

OK

I started over.  I did not record how much I won; just played.  Played two others systems also.  Bottom line:  CROSSINGS HAPPEN!

I will not start my chart over and the next time I play, I will record my winnings and post.

Still very confused about that 0 vs >1 and 1 vs >2 although I see them win.


[table=,]
Date, W/L,Running Total
nope,nada,zilch
[/table]

Sam,

Friend. You didn't win anything? Did you loose your complete bankroll?

Jur

No, I never lost a dime; have never lost a dime on the G.U.T.  I am merely starting over and doing it the correct way.

You see, some of the money I made/lost was on 0 vs (1 + 2) and now I know that's wrong.  My results would be skewed.

I am now using Track 3 software by droidman, which is all a person ever needs.  This is the most utilitarian piece of software I've ever seen.  It has no bells, whistles, colors or gizmos--but it works beautifully.

Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 18, 2008, 03:17:55 PM
Jur

No, I never lost a dime; have never lost a dime on the G.U.T.  I am merely starting over and doing it the correct way.

You see, some of the money I made/lost was on 0 vs (1 + 2) and now I know that's wrong.  My results would be skewed.

I am now using Track 3 software by droidman, which is all a person ever needs.  This is the most utilitarian piece of software I've ever seen.  It has no bells, whistles, colors or gizmos--but it works beautifully.

Sam

Sam

As I'm testing and working the G.U.T. Can you help me where I can find track 3? I do have track 2 but can't find track 3.

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 18, 2008, 03:17:55 PM
Jur

No, I never lost a dime; have never lost a dime on the G.U.T.  I am merely starting over and doing it the correct way.

You see, some of the money I made/lost was on 0 vs (1 + 2) and now I know that's wrong.  My results would be skewed.

I am now using Track 3 software by droidman, which is all a person ever needs.  This is the most utilitarian piece of software I've ever seen.  It has no bells, whistles, colors or gizmos--but it works beautifully.

Sam

Question. Do I understand you correct, you had situations in which you betted on 2 columns? You have a situation 0vs1 and you betted 1 and 2?

Jur

I've looked for Track 3 in the download section and I can't find it.  If you send me an email, I'll attach it for you.  Someone here must know where it is.  I don't know how I got it or Track 2.

Yes, I was betting wrong.  I feel going into it is counter-productive as it just fosters more and more "wrongness", if you will.  Let's just stick to what winkel said.

Sam

nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=176 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=176)

here is track3 :) just have to look for droidman :)

Thanks, BOO!!

I keep looking for TRACK......

Sam

Quote from: Boo_Ray on October 19, 2008, 03:17:21 AM
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=176 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=176)

here is track3 :) just have to look for droidman :)

Found it again with your help. Yesterday I looked under droidman but couldn't find. Thank you for the help. It's appreciated.

Below is today's movie.  I have only shown the wins, except for a couple of mistakes.  It is short.  Someone should watch it.

Today I went up 66 units.  OK, that's only $33 and nothing to write the folks about.  But it's units that counts. 

Let me state something and I'll not address it again:

EVERYTHING I'M SEEING COULD BE AN ANOMALY!


What am I doing in the video?  I'm betting the first crossing that is 17 or less.  I bet it twice.  It almost always wins.  Then, or even earlier, I look for 1 v2 and so on.  I won today on 3 v >3 with three bets down.

It is amazing how virtually everything winkel says you will see, I see!  I don't like the "non-crossings" such as 0 v >1 or 1 v >2 but I bet them and they win.  I don't care what they are or aren't; if they win, that's good enough for me.  Click the box until you get to Motion Box and then enlarge to full screen.


nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bd9be131ae364/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bd9be131ae364/)

Two days ago I started with 120 and now I have 306.  The $60/120u figure is where I will start my chart.

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,0,,120u
10.18.8,,120u,,240
10.20.8,,66u,,306
[/table]

Thanks, winkel.

Samster

Today I missed a bet while typing on the white board.  I have learned I can type on Track 3 and you can read it and then I can back space and no harm is done.  Nothing happens until I hit enter and then I can hit -2 and take it out.  Take a look:

[attachimg=#]

Hello

I did a second test on the G.U.T today, which I shouldn't have.  But if it wins, makes no difference if I'm tired, huh?

It went up and down like a yo-yo.  I quit at 41u up.  I was up more, but it seemed time to quit.

If anyone ever was interested in Gamlet, they should watch this video.  His sectors seemed hot, although I could not check them all.

Film tomorrow!  I'm sure you're all about to pee your pants waiting!! 8)

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,0,,120u
10.18.8,,120u,,240
10.20.8,,66u,,306
10.20.8.2,,41u,,347
[/table]


Sam

Somebody should watch this:

nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bdeb61a1fe064/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bdeb61a1fe064/)

Early morning play on Tuesday.......

Up and down as usual.  Quit when hit 200 dollar mark.  Now I go to $1 bets for a while.

I've gone from 60 to 205.5......almost quadruple.  Well, I'm optimistic if no one else is.

Thanks, winkel!!

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,0,,120u
10.18.8,,120u,,240
10.20.8,,66u,,306
10.20.8.2,,41u,,347
10.21.8,,65,,412
[/table]




nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bdfb11f1ee264/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bdfb11f1ee264/)

Now to the $1 betting table.

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
[/table]

Sam

I'm here and watching bud... and rooting for yah!  You've almost got me convinced to start testing this bad boy out... just need to find the time.

Keep it up!
MM

Thank you, Thank you......


At least one in the audience!!

I'll keep singing!!

Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 03:00:15 PM
Thank you, Thank you......


At least one in the audience!!

I'll keep singing!!

Sam

Video demo makes everything so clear when to place bets and where we are going to bet,will be better if you can show the tracker as well like the 1st video,it helps a lot

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 03:00:15 PM

I'll keep singing!

So your the reason it's raining in the Uk  :D ;D :D

Thanks for the video's Sam, it's a great way to show how it's done..... 8)

although I must be honest, they are slightly different to the video's I normally watch on the Internet  ::)

Quote from: xman1970 on October 21, 2008, 05:42:35 PM

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 21, 2008, 03:00:15 PM

I'll keep singing!

So your the reason it's raining in the Uk  :D ;D :D

Thanks for the video's Sam, it's a great way to show how it's done..... 8)

although I must be honest, they are slightly different to the video's I normally watch on the Internet  ::)

LMAO!!!

By the way Sam, videos are an excellent teaching tool!  Well done my man... I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks...

MM

Thank you, my good friends, for those compliments.

There are two ways I can go about this:

1.  I can use my web cam and voice over the betting and selection process.  I could then use the Screen Capture Software to edit the whole mess

OR

2.  I can use the Track4 and put it on the screen.  I cannot switch back and forth as it has cost me three wins doing so.

I am not doing a selection process.  I am betting just as winkel said, although I do bet for two crossings at once.  0v1 and 3v>3 or some such.

Any suggestions on what to do?

Sam

perhaps;

bet first and then explain or make remarks and show tracker

br
winkel

Whatever is easier for you Sam, after all your doing the hard work..... 8)

winkel

I am going to try a video cam where I can speak and show the whole screen.  I can explain what I'm doing as I do it.  Too much typing costs me dearly on missed bets!!

@ALL

There is no way to edit this.  That would defeat the purpose.  I will have to explain and that will take some time.  I have to bet and that will take some time.  If you don't have time to watch it, then fast forward to the good parts!

Wow, this is going to be fun!!

Sam

Here's todays second video.  I'm using $1 chips in it. 

nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bdfb71f1fe564/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bdfb71f1fe564/)


[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,266
[/table]

Sam

whats your play rules ?

nb. of spin and stop loss

when you stop loss you quit for the day ?

jump back situation please

thanks

I'm trying to develop rules; as of now I just try to follow winkel

My stop loss is when I'm sick enough!

Videos coming.

Watch at your own risk.

Sam

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
[/table]

I had the session from hell.  Probably because I was learning to make a video and doing the system together.

Below is my first time at making a video with sound.&nbsp;

The video is totally screwed!!!

OK my video sound is way out of synch with the picture.  More later............

What is your record meant to tell?  :o ::)

winkel

Just how and why I bet; trying to do as you say.  Making my own decisions.  Learning.  Having fun. 

Sam

I mean: Bunch - Bunch more - eh - Yuk ???????????????????????

Sorry about that...

I'll correct it.

Sam

Hi TCS,

nice voice  :)

please don´t bet the small 2vs3 if the 0;1 are so high at 14 14

can you list the spins then I can give you some advice to it.

br
winkel

winkel

Thanks,

I'm trying to speak softly and carry a big stick!

No, Sir, I did not record the spins.  This was just a bit of a practice run.  I think I found the problem on the voice being wrong.  I'll post a trial video.  The next time I play I will do it differently.

Thanks for your advice!

Sam

synch test

nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bddb71a1de064/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bddb71a1de064/)

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 22, 2008, 06:48:55 PM
[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
[/table]

I had the session from hell.  Probably because I was learning to make a video and doing the system together.

Below is my first time at making a video with sound.&nbsp;

The video is totally screwed!!!

OK my video sound is way out of synch with the picture.  More later............

Ouch Sam,

When you lost the 130 did you loose all your bets? How much bets did you lose in a row untill you had 1 win?

sam, sound is laggin behind

Jur

I didn't count the bets in  a row.  This was just a "session from hell".  It happens.

BOO!

Yes, exactly four seconds.  I'm working with Motion Box to see if there's anything that can be done about it.

Sam

I understand Sam. I'm testing right now and looking for the longest loss. The G.U.T. seems to have winning bets, even in a losing streak. That would mean that you can raise the flat bets now and then. Was just curious. Keep your money safe my friend. Quit filming and start concentrating. It's your own money, we can't let the casino have that!

Jur

That's a nice thing to say!  Compared to what the Market is doing to us, who misses a few hundred at roulette?  My concentration was actually better--much better--as I was talking what I was doing as well as doing it.  I just hit a streak.

Personally, I don't use progressions.  The USA is in the financial condition it is because we have lost our progression. 

Sam

Hi TCS and all,

my moneymanagement:

double units when you tripled bankroll.

when you lose your bankroll with betting double units there is always 1 bankroll with single units left.

br
winkel

hi winkle,

As for the bankroll, how many units is enough to start with?

Thanks

bankroll at the table: 200 units
bankroll to fill up table-bankroll after loss: 200 units
bankroll to replace lost bankroll: 200 units

that´s also a triple of the main bankroll

br
winkel

i had my first GUT session yesterday at my local casino....51 units profits...i won the first two crossing and leave the table...i was playing with 5$ chips...so 255$ - 5$ tips = 250$ for one hour....my goal is to play with 25$ chips eventualy

winkel you already said than a 300 units bankroll is ok.....now its 600 units ??

so 15 000$ bankroll to play with 25$ chips....i thought it was 7 500$..... :'(

should I play 50 spin every session without any stop rules ?? I dont like the idea of stopping after 50 units and loose this 50 the next day...after all the test done here is there any solid play rules to maximize profits ??

Guy's~! 

I have an idea. Me myself is a forex trader and when trading, money management is essential. What if we apply some money management to the GUT like for every session u play, you only quit either when u hit your stoploss or when ur target profit is reached. Your risk reward ratio must be at least 1:1.5 or 1:2. Meaning, as an example, for every session u play, u either quit when u lose 100units or quit when u win 150 units (for risk reward ratio of 1:1.5). Same goes to ratio of 1:2, u quit when lose 100 units or win 200 units.

If this GUT system has good winning rate the the bankroll shall grow in time. We gotta accept that losing sessions are inevitable, but our winning sessions will put us ahead in time. We must minimize loss and maximize profits.

SAM !! Could u please test this out. The problem for me is that I couldn't do this because I have not yet fully understood the system. I just came across this yesterday and I'm only on the surface of the system. I need more time to read fr the beginning.

Thanks
;)

nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bd3b91616e764/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9bd3b91616e764/)

novo

Good idea.

I will apply it!

Sam

@kompressor

I said at the befinning bankroll should be 200 units.

I started with a good streak, so I didn´t have situations as in this tests I´m doing now. So I put it to 200+200+200.
One complained, he took his last money and lost it all on first session.
I do have to prevent people from doing that. so you have to have absolutely free money fo putting up a bankroll of 600.

br
winkel

@novo

we play flat bet. so there is no possibility to target a special win of day.

as further listings said:
a stop lossorwin like -40/+40 works badly
a stop win +40 and try to recover any loss works nice
no stop at L/W but just at spin 50 gives best results

after 50 days/ 3 sessions per day
-40/+40 = +905 (deepest br -237 biggest loss in a row -444)
+40/recover = +1598 (biggest loss in a row -298)
stop spin 50 = +2117 (biggest loss in a row ca. -270)

br
winkel

hi winkel and tcs

2117 / 50 days =  42.34 units per day

42.34 / 3 sessions = 14.11 units per session

i'm playing only in a real casino....do you recommend playing 3 sessions per day ?

with 5$ chips 14 units average dont worth the trouble...whats your opinion on unit value for a good daily profits

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
10.23.8,,2,,$136
10.23.8.,,28,,164
[/table]

nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9adbb41a1fe664/ (nolinks://nolinks.motionbox.com/video/player/ee9adbb41a1fe664/)

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
10.23.8,,2,,$136
10.24.8,,28,,164
10.24.8.1,,72@.50,,$202
[/table]

The cat is climbing up  ;)

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 24, 2008, 06:20:41 PM
[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
10.23.8,,2,,$136
10.24.8,,28,,164
10.24.8.1,,72@.50,,$202
[/table]

TC,,

This is real money not play money ?

mad

This is real money.  I am betting .50 per number at this time.  When my confidence increases I will go to $1 per number and on up.

Sam

Quote from: winkel on October 24, 2008, 05:05:29 AM
@novo

we play flat bet. so there is no possibility to target a special win of day.

as further listings said:
a stop lossorwin like -40/+40 works badly
a stop win +40 and try to recover any loss works nice
no stop at L/W but just at spin 50 gives best results

after 50 days/ 3 sessions per day
-40/+40 = +905 (deepest br -237 biggest loss in a row -444)
+40/recover = +1598 (biggest loss in a row -298)
stop spin 50 = +2117 (biggest loss in a row ca. -270)

br
winkel

Hi Winkel,

Could you please clarify this? ???

I read in your test thread of the GUT, you mentioned to KFS to use your clinical test rules as follow:
17-13 numbers rebet after loss = total bets 2
12-10 numbers rebet after loss 2 times = total bets 3
9-8 numbers rebet after loss 3 times = total bets 4

For your win of +2117 units, you only stop at spin #50, right?? You would bet on every trigger as long as it's still there. You do not use any stop rules like what you mentioned to KFS at all, right?

Thanks,
novo

I think this will answer your question. It's originally posted by winkel

17-13 numbers rebet after loss = total bets 2
12-10 numbers rebet after loss 2 times = total bets 3
9-8 numbers rebet after loss 3 times = total bets 4

36/numbers=times to bet (use first number only; 3,5 = 3)

stop at >39
otherwise play till spin 50, no stopploss no limit

we rebet a crossing as lon as it is alive
15-14 moves to 15-13 stop betting
15-14 stays 15-14 rebet (once see above)
especially later in the spins when bet 0vs2 appear:
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-8 loss stopp betting

9-9
9-8
9-7 stopp
9-8 (a 1 has hit) start betting max 4times again

hope that´s what you wanted to know

Hello JHM,

I understand fully of his rules:
17-13 numbers rebet after loss = total bets 2
12-10 numbers rebet after loss 2 times = total bets 3
9-8 numbers rebet after loss 3 times = total bets 4
They're as what you've just described in your last post, thank you for that.

What I wanted to know is that for his particular test that ended up +2117 units, did he use the above rules or not? Or he just bet on every trigger even if it exceeds 4 times.

Hi novo,

See Testing G.U.T:
bet every trigger with above rules stopping after 2 or thre or four losses due to amount of numbers to bet
stop at spin 50

br
winkel

Well, the truth hurts........

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
10.23.8,,2,,$136
10.24.8,,28,,164
10.24.8.1,,72@.50,,$202
10.25.8,,<$$$$>,,$29
[/table]

There are times when this thing just absolutely, positively will not work no matter what you do.  I have spent more hours than I care to count studying and testing this idea and then playing it with real money.  I will make the following allowance:  I may be doing it wrong.  Frankly, I don't think I am.

I lost and I jumped back; I lost and I jumped back.  On and on and on......

Now, if numbers are just numbers, surely on one of those jumps I would have hit a profitable run.  But, I didn't.  I lost and lost and lost.

I have stated many times, testing many systems, that if you are sensitive to it, you can tell "which way the wind is blowing".  I see it on the Chicco/murph especially and the 4Selecta with the Charts.  Doesn't that tell us something?  Either I'm full of bull or the wheel is different from day to day; maybe hour to hour.  If numbers were totally random, how could this be true?

I am taking some time off from the G.U.T.

An aside to those who have PMed me.  Read reply #16.  I said I might be seeing an anomaly.  That is a deviation from the norm.  No one should ever look at a 1,000 spin test I've done and decide to start betting real money.  Just don't do it!  Period!

Sam

OK, here's the deal.........

My rules did not work.  Can we as a group, decided upon a firm set of rules which I could play and report on?  I'll use real money and film it.  I'm going to ask questions now.

1.  Do we bet on a crossing before the 19/18?  Many 1 v 2 and 1 v >1 crossings are visible before the 19/18.  And some 2 v >2 and 2 v 3.

2.  Do we bet on crossings which are not really crossings: 1 v >2.  Let me promise you there are backward crossings where the >2 passes the 1 and you are betting on the 1.  How?  The 2 is becoming >2 by the 2 hitting.  I can show you on the tracker.

3.  If we lose the first possible betable crossing, 17/17, 0 v 1, twice, do we jump back?

4.  If we win the above, do we jump back?

5.  If we don't jump back after winning 17/17, do we at spin 50?

6.  What do we do about multiple crossings?  They happen all the time?

7.  Do we bet EVERY crossing?

8.  If we DO bet multiple crossings, do we bet the leftmost crossing or the crossing with the most numbers?  They are NOT always the same.

9.  If we have multiple crossings, do we just sit on our hands and wait for a single?

If the people who are interested in testing this beast will help me formulate a set of HARD-AND-FAST rules, I will test further and report.  I am sick of subjectivity and guessing.  When you let the subjective in, the casual observer can say, "Well, you should have...."

If he's so smart, let him test it and I'll watch!! :D

Help me out now, if you want to continue this test.  Otherwise, I'm about done.

Sam

(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1225052663.png&hash=4c2c0f988434ebdbce24c3164025c55c3d6ce843)

this is todays live-test on Wiesbaden Table3

it explains some of your questions

1. Do we play before crossing 19-18
look at it and look what has happened before:
look at the N´s or "1"s spin 7 following:
up and down and up and down
as soon as a "0" appears a "1" hits, it literately walks through
this is a good sign to bet on "1" vs ">1" or "2"

br-highs: 29 back and up to 42 back and up to 59 back and up to 64 ...... how long will you test your luck until it is not recovering?
but the luck stays with us: back and up to 68 up to 90 how long will we stress it?
we overacted it: down 77 down 64 down 54 down .... how long will you watch this or is it time to jump?
43 31 19 12 4 : are you serious you are watching whats going on?
lucky at last we made a good decision not to bet the "0" (we lost 5 bets in a row on them) but took a chance on 2vs>2

2. is answered by the example before

3. 17-17 what is going on? Therein is the answer

4. watch what is going on

5. do we win or do we lose every crossing, if I lost three crossings I jump definitely

6. what is going on?
Is there a walk through like I described above: play the walk-through
do I lose all my decisions, am I wrong and wrong: jump back
am I right with my decisions: play until first loss and jump
Do I ride the same wave with my ideas as the spins do? Yes play on, No jump

7. If in doubt, don´t bet

8. see 6.

9. see 7.


br
winkel

as always: don´t ask theoretically. Give spins where your question made you unsure, and I will give you the hint why you had to bet or why not.

Quotehelp me formulate a set of HARD-AND-FAST rules,

a hard and fast rule:
one who kills another is to be punished!
A soldier killed another soldier: He´s to punish!
(or do we aks if the dead is a comrad or a combatant?)

Roulette is random like life, there are just hints no fast rules.

as I said before: G.U.T is different from all what´s ever published in roulette and you were searching for.

another fast rule: Don´t pee towards the wind!

br
winkel

(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.roulette-board.de%2Fuploads%2Fpost-89-1225055101.png&hash=9cb9619cedec94a6e0ac32d674a0758aa47c33a1)

next picture todays wiesbaden toucbet 1

same structure

same start with bets on 1vs ">1" and "2"

look at spin 33 following: If 75 wasn´t enough I should have noticed that I am betting against the wheel after 6 losses
How I was wrong see spins 45 and following

br
winkel

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 26, 2008, 06:15:00 PM
OK, here's the deal.........

My rules did not work.  Can we as a group, decided upon a firm set of rules which I could play and report on?  I'll use real money and film it.  I'm going to ask questions now.

1.  Do we bet on a crossing before the 19/18?  Many 1 v 2 and 1 v >1 crossings are visible before the 19/18.  And some 2 v >2 and 2 v 3.

2.  Do we bet on crossings which are not really crossings: 1 v >2.  Let me promise you there are backward crossings where the >2 passes the 1 and you are betting on the 1.  How?  The 2 is becoming >2 by the 2 hitting.  I can show you on the tracker.

3.  If we lose the first possible betable crossing, 17/17, 0 v 1, twice, do we jump back?

4.  If we win the above, do we jump back?

5.  If we don't jump back after winning 17/17, do we at spin 50?

6.  What do we do about multiple crossings?  They happen all the time?

7.  Do we bet EVERY crossing?

8.  If we DO bet multiple crossings, do we bet the leftmost crossing or the crossing with the most numbers?  They are NOT always the same.

9.  If we have multiple crossings, do we just sit on our hands and wait for a single?

If the people who are interested in testing this beast will help me formulate a set of HARD-AND-FAST rules, I will test further and report.  I am sick of subjectivity and guessing.  When you let the subjective in, the casual observer can say, "Well, you should have...."

If he's so smart, let him test it and I'll watch!! :D

Help me out now, if you want to continue this test.  Otherwise, I'm about done.

Sam

TCS,

I'm with you, I feel like i'm running in place, never making any consistent progress and I always feel like in the back of my mind it's because there are NOT enough clear cut rules.  Too many gray areas not enough black and white!

I just got done testing over 500 spins,,I thought I was making some progress, up +200 then it all came crashing down and I was at my original starting bankroll.  When this happens it is VERY frustrating because you feel like you basically just wasted your life testing those 500 spins!

mad

Yes, it could seem like a waste of your life.  But I found the study enjoyable!

Every person has their own ideas about what a system is.  For me, it is a mechanical process.  There are no decisions to be made.  There are those who say such a thing is an impossibility.  They may be right. 

On numerous occasions winkel said, "Bet every crossing." and "This is a clinical test."  "No decisions."  Do we remember that?  Now I learn we bet every crossing if.......

I have reviewed the print outs of winkel's posts, the scrolling ones.  There are dozens of crossings that were not bet and many bets were made on non-crossings.  Either a crossing is imminent or it isn't.  The thing is fish or fowl! 

I think the fair-minded people on this forum know I wanted--very badly--to prove the G.U.T. to be a profit-making system one could play for hours.  I had hoped it would be profitable over thousands of spins.  I can't do it.  I can't make it work.

I am not going to argue with winkel.  I am simply going to leave it at this:  I don't have enough "gambler's intelligence" to make it work.  It would seem I don't even have sense enough not to pee against the wind!

I sincerely hope others will take up this challenge. 

Sam

TCS,,

I'm not sure how you did your testing, I can only speak for myself but I did notice that when I was losing, I kept on losing for quite a while, even after I jumped back and even after a jump back after spin 50.  These were the times that depleted my bankroll profits that I had made earlier.

If you look at Winkel's clinical testing, looking at every single one of his tests, he bet every trigger up to spin 50 with little human decision making and was able to make substantial profits.  I played just like this clinical tests playing every trigger up to spin 50 regardless of the results.

One of the differences between his tests and mine is after he reached spin 50 he STOPPED!!  Meaning, he cleared out the numbers, and started over with 50 NEW spins the next day.  If he had a losing session, he never "jumped back" and continued from spin 18 for another session.  He accepted his loss, and came back the next day with 50 brand new spins! 

I however kept going.  After I reached 50 spins with a profit or with a negative loss, I backtracked or "jumped" back 18 numbers (thinking I can keep going).  When I did that, many of those numbers that I was losing with were now in my "new session" of 37 numbers in my track4 software.  I can't help to now think that that may have had something to do with my results, and that fact that it seemed like every time I had a losing session after 50 spins, I would have a long losing streak for sometimes many games after that?

I am not done testing.  I want this to work just as bad as you!  I am going to try it again, but this time acting like Winkel in his clinical testing and after 50 spins, rather than "jumping back" I am going to clear it all out and start over from spin 37 and see if there is any difference.

What was your testing?  When did you jump back?  After 40+?  After 2 losses?  At spin 50.... did you jump back or start with a brand new 50 spins?

the gut have solid rules for me :

play 50 spin however you loose or win

i bet every crossing...i bet on two if there's two

i dont jump back at all...if my last 50 were loosing I cross my finger on the next 50

this is the grail....but a 250 units drawdown is possible and will happen

you need a 600 units bankroll to play this sytem..this mean you can loose 400 units in a few days.....dont worry

poor winkel

Quote from: kompressor on October 27, 2008, 12:51:19 AM
the gut have solid rules for me :

i dont jump back at all...if my last 50 were loosing I cross my finger on the next 50

If your last 50 were losing, what specificallly do you do next? 

Do you collect a brand new 50 spins?  Or do you jump back and use some of your old numbers in your new 50 spin session?

i collect a new set of 50...the next day....the probability of loosing one day is high but 7 days in a row is low

if you play with 0.50 cents bet and play 5 hours a day your wife is with another man as fast as she can

play with 5$ units one hour a day(50 spins)...then switch to 10$,20$.....every 400 to 600 units gain

That's what I thought!

I think this may make a difference!  i'm gonna continue testing!

winkel's 50 days test gain 400 units approx. every 2 weeks...

TCS,

Looking at the clinical tests in the GUT testing thread, I saw him bet consistently on any crossing a difference of 0 or 1 without thinking or getting into specific's of "why."  When there were two or more crossings, from what I looked at, it appeard he always bet the "left most" bet, meaning the '0' falling first, then the '1' then the '2.'  

-also in the clinical testing it looks like he never made a bet on the small bets for testing such as 2vs3 if it was 2-1.  Stick to the '0' then the '1' crossings first.  It looks like the stead fast rules are:

-Look at every line going horizontal across the page on it's own!  Forget about what happend before, looking for trends etc.....Just look to see if there is a trigger anywhere. (eg. 16-15, 9-9, etc...)
-Play every possible trigger, (any diff of 0 or 1), forget about trying to figure out why it's really not a trigger or getting into technicalities.  Just bet every trigger like a robot.
-bet every trigger the appropriate amount of times (eg. 17x2, 11x3, 9x4), if it loses after the appropriate amount of times STOP!  Look for a new trigger.  If that trigger goes away and then comes back 2 spins later, you continue to bet on that trigger again for the appropriate amount of times. (eg. 17x2, 11x3, 9x4)
-If you win a trigger and the trigger is still there, bet again because it is still a trigger. (eg 15-14 bet,, goes to 14-14, still another trigger = bet)
-Play to spin 50 regardless of total win or loss.
-Never jump back anywhere!  Play to spin 50 PERIOD!

This is the way I tested and I had VERY good results, I was up 250 units in a steady progression upward.  However like I said, I noticed that when I lost after spin 50 (and jumped back) I would lose again, then again, then again and again!  All of my losses came in groups and made my profits disappear!

Winkel and Kompressor play the exact same way as me in their clinical tests and had much better results?  Why?  The only difference between my testing and theirs is after they had a loss after spin 50, their next sessions started with 50 brand new numbers.  

So that is my NEW RULE:

-After spin 50 with a loss, NO jump back!  Start over with 50 brand new spins.

We'll see if it makes a difference.

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 27, 2008, 02:19:23 AM


I have tried to be more than fair to winkel in my tests of his G.U.T. but I'm of the opinion that what the man says and what he actually does are two different things. 

Show me in black and white I'm wrong.

Sam

I agree with you that he does and has said many things that contradict each other and he has confused me many times.  So I got to the point where I stopped listening to his words and watched what he actually does!  Looking at the GUT testing, he seems to be pretty consistent in what he does and that is what I am copying trying to duplicate his results.  Forget about the "hints" or "pointers."  Just study the GUT testing results and what I just posted above, and these seem to be the rules of the game, at least for the "basic way" of playing.

Quote
I have reviewed the print outs of winkel's posts, the scrolling ones.  There are dozens of crossings that were not bet and many bets were made on non-crossings.  Either a crossing is imminent or it isn't.  The thing is fish or fowl!

As I said: I´m playing nearly in a Live-situation because the spins are coming up at the marquees of wiesbaden. Soe there might be some crossings I just didn´t see.

I will accept your statement, if you can prove I did those things to increase the bankroll and tried to cheat people.

Especially this statement:

Quotemany bets were made on non-crossings

If you make up your mind that 1 vs >1 is no crossing than you are right, but it is not my definition of playable crossings.

br
winkel

Quote from: TwoCatSam on October 27, 2008, 11:47:14 AM
mad

Let's take your rules one at a time:


-Look at every line going horizontal across the page on it's own!  Forget about what happend before, looking for trends etc.....Just look to see if there is a trigger anywhere. (eg. 16-15, 9-9, etc...)

The above I understand.

-Play every possible trigger, (any diff of 0 or 1), forget about trying to figure out why it's really not a trigger or getting into technicalities.  Just bet every trigger like a robot.

In the above red statement you have said two things:  1.  Bet any trigger with a diff of 0 or 1 and 2. don't worry if it's really not a trigger.  Again I ask,
is 0 v 1 with 12 10 a trigger.  Yes or No!  Is 0 v >1 with 12 10 a trigger.  Yes or No!



-bet every trigger the appropriate amount of times (eg. 17x2, 11x3, 9x4), if it loses after the appropriate amount of times STOP!  Look for a new trigger.  If that trigger goes away and then comes back 2 spins later, you continue to bet on that trigger again for the appropriate amount of times. (eg. 17x2, 11x3, 9x4)

So if I have a 1 v 2, 7 6 trigger appear at spin 20, I bet it?  There are many, many such triggers before the 19/18 crossing?  What if I'm betting a trigger like 2 v 3 and a NEW trigger on a leftmost number appears, do I quit on this one and jump to that one?



-If you win a trigger and the trigger is still there, bet again because it is still a trigger. (eg 15-14 bet,, goes to 14-14, still another trigger = bet)
OK

-Play to spin 50 regardless of total win or loss.
OK

-Never jump back anywhere!  Play to spin 50 PERIOD!
OK

Then you wrote, "So that is my NEW RULE:

-After spin 50 with a loss, NO jump back!  Start over with 50 brand new spins."

What if there's a win at 50?  Can you jump back and continue playing?

So these are your crossings then?

0 v 1
0 v >1
1 v 2
1 v >2
2 v 3

Clear me up mad!  I'll play this sucker with a voice-over video and hope every minute you are right!

Sam

The way I played:

is 0 v 1 with 12 10 a trigger.  Yes or No!  Is 0 v >1 with 12 10 a trigger.  Yes or No!  -------12 10 is NOT a trigger that is a diff of 2.  Only a diff of 0 or 1. which would be 12vs11.  0vs.>1 at 12-10 is still not a trigger, must be 12-11 or 12-12, or 11-11.

So if I have a 1 v 2, 7 6 trigger appear at spin 20, I bet it?---- NO!  Forget about trying to win with those little numbers on 1vs2 7-6 before the 0 or the 1's are crossed first.  First wait for the 0 to cross the 1 OR for the O to cross the >1 or 1 to cross the >1 FIRST, then you can look at other possible crossings.

There are many, many such triggers before the 19/18 crossing?  What if I'm betting a trigger like 2 v 3 and a NEW trigger on a leftmost number appears, do I quit on this one and jump to that one?-------YES, you must decide.  That is what I did and more times than not I was succesful.  Drop the 2 vs. 3 and go for the new trigger with the higher odds of hitting. (eg. 0, 1, >1)

What if there's a win at 50?  Can you jump back and continue playing?----- Yes, because you just won, the numbers were performing like they should.  After I won I jumped back to save time and had good results.  However, after a loss at spin 50, NO jumpbacks, start over with 50 new spins.  8 out of 10 times when I lost and then jumped back I would lose again, and usually again right after that!  So from now on, no jumpbacks after a loss, new 50 spins!
It might not seem logical but there has to be a reason why when you lose and jump back, you continue to lose.  Those past numbers were NOT performing the way they should and it seems to affect the future crossings as well.

Play like Winkel and Kompressor and come back fresh with 50 new spins.

It might not seem logical but there has to be a reason why when you lose and jump back, you continue to lose.  Those past numbers were NOT performing the way they should and it seems to affect the future crossings as well.


this make sense to me...you winkel ?

QuoteIf we have a 12 v 10 and it's a 1 v >1, then winkel calls it a crossing.  Why then is 12 v 10 NOT a crossings when it's 1 v 2>? 

Where did I say that or where did I bet this?

Quote from: kompressor on October 27, 2008, 12:30:08 PM

It might not seem logical but there has to be a reason why when you lose and jump back, you continue to lose.  Those past numbers were NOT performing the way they should and it seems to affect the future crossings as well.


this make sense to me...you winkel ?

Kompressor,

What were your specific results playing this way?  I know you must've had ups and downs, but if you didn't record your results, approximately how much profit did you earn and what was your ratio of Wins vs. Losses?

Quote from: kompressor on October 27, 2008, 12:30:08 PM

It might not seem logical but there has to be a reason why when you lose and jump back, you continue to lose.  Those past numbers were NOT performing the way they should and it seems to affect the future crossings as well.

this make sense to me...you winkel ?

please give me any 150 spins and I´ll show you the answer to your question.

br
winkel

Triggers
17-17
17-16
16-16
16-15
15-15
etc. etc.

No   triggers

17-18
16-17
15-16
14-15
13-14
etc. etc.

Yeah, from my understanding 12-10 is not a trigger, a trigger must be in the difference of 0 or 1.
Sam, perhaps that's what affecting your results so far...

We have a win @ spin 28 and 40  :)

TCS,

Again, your getting into the reasoning as to why and your thinking too much, forget about all that.  Forget about "a crossing!"  Bet like a robot any difference of 0 or 1.  That is what Winkel did in his tests and that is what I am copying.  In your above example, yes he bet the 11, just like he should have, was it a diff btw 0 or 1?  Yes, so bet!

I know you experienced some wins on the 2vs3, I have too, but for the testing purposes, the 0,1, and >1 take priority.

My best advice is to stop trying to understand why this why that, and just copy instead.  That's what I started doing and It worked much better.  I just have to see if starting a new 50 spins after a loss produces better results.

Quote from: winkel on October 27, 2008, 12:36:27 PM

Quote from: kompressor on October 27, 2008, 12:30:08 PM

It might not seem logical but there has to be a reason why when you lose and jump back, you continue to lose.  Those past numbers were NOT performing the way they should and it seems to affect the future crossings as well.

this make sense to me...you winkel ?

please give me any 150 spins and I´ll show you the answer to your question.

br
winkel

this is mad conclusion...me i never jump back...a session is 50 spin period

50 spins regardless of win or lose?  What are your results so far?

Time for me to let this go......

Hi Sam,

To me, a crossing is always completed in 3 steps.
1st, when the diff is 1 point away (meaning the lines are approaching each other, greater number is on left eg, 12-11)
2nd, when the diff is 0 point (the lines have touched but may never cross, they may move in parallel eg, 12-12)
3rd, when the diff is 1 point (greater number is on the right eg, 11-12)

Whenever a 2 lines are going to cross, they must move in order of this 3 steps. That's why winkel said that only bet on the diff of 0 or 1, because that's when they're going to cross or they are crossing. On the 3rd step, eventhough the diff is 1, the lines have crossed (eg, 11-12) so there's no point of betting on the numbers.

Well, that is my understanding of crossing. I maybe wrong in winkel's perspective.

Cheers

Mad,

Winkel said that his tests that netted +2117 for 50 days, he betted these crossings
0vs1
1vs2
0vs>1
0vs2
1vs>1
1vs2

I think you should incorporate these crossings in your test to see if it's as good as he's claimed. Just a suggestion  ;)

Sam,

You started playing with your own money, how is testing going?

see testing

This is your testing thread, or am I wrong ???. You're still on $ 202,-?

Well, the truth hurts........

[table=,]
Date,,W/L,,Running Total
Begin,,5,,205
10.21.8.2,,61,,$266
10.22.8,,<$130+>,,$130
10.22.8,,4,,$134
10.23.8,,2,,$136
10.24.8,,28,,164
10.24.8.1,,72@.50,,$202
10.25.8,,<$$$$>,,$29
[/table]

It does. Sorry to read Sam. It happened even though you stick to the G.U.T. rules?

Jur

But I was jumping back when no more crossings were in sight.  This was (I thought) one way winkel said to play.  Numbers are numbers and droidman incorporated the "jump" feature into the software so we would not have to start over at spin 1.  Now, mad and novo say that starting over at 1 is the way to go and then some other rules.

So, we'll try it this way!

Now, I probably should have said, "This is not my day!" and left.  But---PEOPLE---if numbers are just numbers, it doesn't matter.  If numbers are connected/related/run in packs/whatever, then it does.  I think my loss proved numbers gather in groups and sometimes those groups will beat you at your best game.

Sam

I think you should only stick to the rules of Winkel. He found and designed the system. Novo and Mat are only confusing you. If they know better, let them test with their own money and not yours. But that's only my opinion.

I'm testing gut too. And still winning. I play with track2 from droidman (track 4 confuses me). I play crossings 0vs1 0vs2 1vs2 and only play Winkels rules:

GUT rules

17-13 numbers rebet after loss = total bets 2
12-10 numbers rebet after loss 2 times = total bets 3
9-8 numbers rebet after loss 3 times = total bets 4

36/numbers=times to bet (use first number only; 3,5 = 3)

stop at >39
otherwise play till spin 50, no stopploss no limit

we rebet a crossing as lon as it is alive
15-14 moves to 15-13 stop betting
15-14 stays 15-14 rebet (once see above)
especially later in the spins when bet 0vs2 appear:
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-8 loss stopp betting

9-9
9-8
9-7 stopp
9-8 (a 1 has hit) start betting max 4times again

hope that´s what you wanted to know

I tested a stop-rule
+40 and -40 it worked very bad
+40 and try to recover till spin 50 is nearly to the clinical rule ->
play every crossing til spin 50 without any other stop-rules

Play
0vs1
1vs2
0vs1>
0vs2>
1vs1>
1vs2

Jur

Money beside the point.....what I am trying to accomplish is a "clinical" trial of this system.  I would love to play by winkel's rules but he said NOT peeing into the wind was one of them.  He lost me there.

I am going to work with this a week or so and then either let it go or bet some money on it.

winkel did run what he called a clinical trial, but his betting was all over the place. 

mad and novo say don't pay any attention to what winkel says; just bet as he does.  You say don't pay any attention to them!! It's a comedy of errors!!

Sam

Sam, example

Spin Nr 0 1 2 3 3>
1     20 36
2     12 35
3     16 34
4     31 33
5     9  32
6     34 31
7     5  30
8     4  29
9     23 28

Example 2

1     20 36
2     12 35
3     1235
4     31 34  
5     20 34
6     31 34
7     31  34
8     12 34
9     23 33

In example 1 the table is really going well on the 0's seem to hit a lot. In example 2 the 0's seem to go very slow. Mostly when we approach the situation 0vs1 (can be 17-16/16-16/16-15/15-15 etc.). When we bet the 0, in my experience example 1 makes more winners than 2.

Do you get what I'm saying and where the table is going?

Maybe Winkel can confirm this?

I don't want to confuse you Sam. This is just my opinion.

Jur

I know your heart is in the right place, so read this carefully!  I don't want to offend anyone else.

If I get today's video posted you will hear me say just what you are saying!  I know that full well.

I am a goal-oriented person and my goal is to either prove winkel wrong or right using his own words.  Words which I have archived and can pull from their musty shelf.

In the beginning, did he or did he not say that we should "bet every crossing"?  Did he say it?  Yes, he did.  But when I showed him he was not betting every crossing and was betting some which clearly were not crossings, I fell into disfavor!  I don't have sense enough not to pee against the wind, in his words.

Did the man say or did he not that we could bet every crossing and made no decisions (clinical) and the thing would win?  Yes, he did!  I have it archived! 

When KFS showed him his "Spruce Goose" would not fly, he said we must use "gambler's intelligence".  We must now make decisions!  What happened to blindly bet every crossing?  What's with that?

So, hear me once again.  I don't want to make decisions.  The decisions are made beforehand.  I laid out the rules.  Herb is right when he says people retrofit their data to fit their expectations.  "Oh, let's toss this one out!"  "Now, I wouldn't have really bet that!!  Can't count it!"

These things are not tests; they are people fooling themselves for whatever reason. 

If you can do it--great!  Go for it.  Post your results!  Don't just say, "This thing wins."  Post some screen shots.  "Blow up the bridge, blow up the truck, blow out your brains---but do SOMETHING!  Patton

Now, let's test this thing according to his "clinical" rules with a video running and see what it does.  Since he refuses to post the rules, we have to glean them from this writings.  Nova, mad and I have done that!

Sam

Sam,

Very good post. Every word you said is true. Winkel said, bet every crossing you can't go wrong. Don't bet more than .. times (depending on the numbers). Don't bet when a crossing is over.

Now I see where you, mat and nova are going. I will take my words earlier back on nova and mat.

I hope you and Winkel can agree on the clinical way of testing. Than you can test and tell us once and for all if it's working or not.

Jur

Frankly, I think the rules are clear.  I'll go one further.  I think this thing works.  The fact that winkel has chosen to take the low road does not mean his not a genius as he says nor does it mean his system is bad.  As he once said, his struggle with English does not make him wrong--just difficult to understand.

I've got nearly a hundred hours of work and study in this system.  You think I'll walk without an answer?

We shall have an answer we can all hear and the numbers will be posted!  The tracker creates a file!  droidman, you're OK, bud!

Sam

Sam,

I'm testing too and think his system works. Just for your information, all live on dublinbet. I'll be testing more and when I'm done I'll post.

Testing GUT               
Casino   Table   Date   Units   Bet   Hit
Dublinbet   2   21-10-2008   19   Win -16 +35
Dublinbet   1   21-10-2008   19   Win -16 +35
Dublinbet   2   21-10-2008   -56   Loss on bets -17 -16 -16 -15 -14 Win -13 +35
Dublinbet   1   22-10-2008   21   Win -14 +35
Dublinbet   2   22-10-2008   25   Win -16 +35, Win -15 -14 +35, Win -14 -13 +35, Loss -10 -10 exit (cross over), Loss -12 (cross over), -11 +35
Dublinbet   1   22-10-2008   48   Win -15 +35, Win -15 -14 +35, Win -13 +35
Dublinbet   1   23-10-2008   13   Win -9 -8 +35, Lose -10 -10 (cross over), Win -10 +35, Lose -10 (spin 50)
Dublinbet   1   23-10-2008   54   Win -8 +35, Win -8 +35
Dublinbet   2   23-10-2008   13   Lose -15 -15, Win -14 +13 +35, Win -13 -12 +35, Win -10 +35
Dublinbet   2   23-10-2008   -23   Win -15 +35, Win -15 -14 +35, Lose -13 -13, Lose -11 (cross over), Lose -12-12-12, Win -11 +35
Dublinbet   1   23-10-2008   2   Win -17 16 +35
Dublinbet   1   24-10-2008   -14   Win -17 -16 +35, Win -15 +35, Lose -9 -9 -9, Lose -9 (cross over)
Dublinbet   2   24-10-2008   42   Win -15 +35, Win -13 +35
Dublinbet   1   24-10-2008   4   Win -13 +35, Lose -10 (cross over), Lose -10 -10 (cross over), Win -12 -11 +35
Dublinbet   1   24-10-2008   -11   Lose -15 -15, Lose -10 (cross over), Win -12 +35, Win -10 -10 +35
Dublinbet   1   25-10-2008   46   Win -14 +35, Win -10 +35
Dublinbet   1   27-10-2008   5   Lose -16 (cross over), Win -14 +35
Dublinbet   1   27-10-2008   38   Win -15 +35, Lose -15 -15, Win -13 +35, Win -9 +35
Dublinbet   1   28-10-2008   2   Win -16 -15 +35

Hi TCS,

QuoteIn the beginning, did he or did he not say that we should "bet every crossing"?  Did he say it?  Yes, he did.  But when I showed him he was not betting every crossing and was betting some which clearly were not crossings, I fell into disfavor!  I don't have sense enough not to pee against the wind, in his words.

Yes I did! [highlight]BUT[/highlight] then people came and complained "I´m losing, what can I do?"
This was the step where I put in "a most advantaged way of playing"
Later on you stepped in and got confused about "contradictions" between the first and the following posts not seeing it is an development of the first steps.
"to pee against the wind" is a word by word tranlating from German to English. I don´t know the english versions of what it means in German. What I tried to say: If the thing is going badly why shall I sit on it an loose money? Then it is better to stop or not to bet or to jump.
I didn´t expect that people (like you do) go and bet a 2-2 crossing at spin 10. I never did it, I even never tried it or thought about.
And at last: If you decide that a crossing 0vs>1 is not a crossing in your opinion: I can´t help, sorry! I tried several times to explain that.

Quote
Did the man say or did he not that we could bet every crossing and made no decisions (clinical) and the thing would win?  Yes, he did!  I have it archived!

Yes I did and I tried to proof this with my clinical test. But as above people complained about losses despite I´ve always said "losing is part of the game" and asked for help and advice: I gave advices by my own experiences and knowledge.
My Intent was that people go and test the game with "virtual money" so they can make their own experiences and see "what is going on". From that point I wanted to lead them to higher levels. Lastly it mixed up and confused people like you, sorry for that I didn´t mean it.

Quotehe said we must use "gambler's intelligence".  We must now make decisions!  What happened to blindly bet every crossing?  What's with that?

see above

Quoteretrofit their data to fit their expectations.

Are you sure I did that or it was my intent? Do you believe I took years of creating and playing it on myself , have been losing and now spread it throughout the world to cheat people? Do you really think I´m such a person?

So TCS, if you do so, thanks for that and this time I really quit.

I can stand people like Herb (with headache, heartburn and woming) but this would be something I couldn´t stand at all.

Quotethey are people fooling themselves for whatever reason.  

If this is your description of mine I apologize for giving this HG to this forum.