VLS Roulette Forum

hi all I just thought I would put a thew diagrams of the wheel as it could help us have a better view of this puzzle.

we know roulette is a random game with a house edge but im saying the reason why it is so hard to win is because the house edge is alot bigger than we imagine, if we had a very qualified dealer.

below shows colum1   1-12

[disc]1,9,7,12,3,4,2,6,13,11,8,5,10[/disc]

HIT COLUM 1
BEST PLACE FOR THE DEALER TO AIM FOR A HIT 1-12 NUMBER COLUM 1
IS BETWEEN NUMBER 6 ON THE WHEEL CLOCKWISE ROUND 10 POCKETS TO NUMBER 5.

MISS COLUM 1
BEST PLACE FOR THE DEALER TO AIM FOR A MISS 1-12 NUMBER COLUM 1. IS BETWEEN NUMBER 24 ON THE WHEEL CLOCKWISE ROUND 11 POCKETS TO NUMBER 29.



MATTJONO

p.s will post the rest for colum 2,3 and lines 1,2,3

I do beleieve it could help alot.

[disc]15,19,21,17,13,23,24,16,20,14,22,18,[/disc]

HIT COLUM 2
BEST PLACE FOR THE DEALER TO AIM FOR A HIT 13-24 NUMBER.
IS BETWEEN NUMBER 24 ON THE WHEEL CLOCKWISE ROUND 10 POCKETS TO NUMBER 18.

(from the 10 pockets 24...18 there is a 60% chance of hitting a number between 13-24 colum2)  
??? ??? ???



MISS COLUM 2
BEST PLACE FOR THE DEALER TO AIM FOR A MISS 13-24 NUMBER COLUM 2, IS BETWEEN NUMBER 29 ON THE WHEEL CLOCKWISE ROUND 9 POCKETS TO NUMBER 32.

(from the 9 pockets there is not a single number from colum 2   13-24)




mattjono

colum 3   25-36,


[disc]26,32,35,28,29,31,33,30,36,27,34,25[/disc]


HIT COLUM 3
BEST PLACE FOR THE DEALER TO AIM FOR A HIT 25-36 NUMBER.
IS BETWEEN NUMBER 29 ON THE WHEEL CLOCKWISE ROUND 9 POCKETS TO NUMBER 32 and 25 ON THE WHEEL COLCKWISE ROUND 9 POCKETS TO 30 ON THE WHEEL.


   



MISS COLUM 2
BEST PLACE FOR THE DEALER TO AIM FOR A MISS 25-36 NUMBER COLUM 3, IS BETWEEN NUMBER 8 ON THE WHEEL CLOCKWISE ROUND
14 POCKETS TO NUMBER 18.

(from the 14 pockets there only 2 numbers from colum 3   numbers - 25-36. thats like a 90% chance of missing a colum 3 number if the dealer aimed for these 14 pockets)



mattjono

i gess everyone already knows this or beleieve that this will not help.

ow wel it may come in handy in the future  :thumbsup:


mattjono

Thanks for the post Matt,

We may need some sort of sticky reference thread for layout/disc cross referencing!

Great on starting this one :thumbsup:

Perhaps there be a "Dealer Signature from the layout" player somewhere down the casinos?  :o

yes victor, I am sure that all the experienced crupiers have to be able to aim for these sections, with a good hit rate.


but the wierd thing about it all is why would they want to aim for sections unless they get commision on the profit they bring in, overwise they will always make players win and get tips.

???  victor im sure you said you had a friend dealer does he tell you alot or keep things to himself.

I know iboba has 27 years experience as a crupier, and could help us more maybe.



mattjono

thought i would add a poll to see what you all think.

mattjono

Quotevictor im sure you said you had a friend dealer does he tell you alot or keep things to himself.

In all truth what we have talked about the issue is that it is as likely to land as it is not to land depending on coverage. 1 in 37 aren't that terrible odds, aiming for merely a 3-number landing zone make it roughly down to 1 in 12. Believe me, he is experienced enough not to believe shall he wished/though the ball to fall into zero and neighbours and it lands on any of them was because of him made it on purpose, specially when you are a big 103 KG guy who inflicts around 20 (or more spins) on the ball before it lands. Not to mention diamonds and ball scatter.

It really doesn't make any difference for him to try to "beat" players. If any, dealers' best interest would be to help players win for the tipping from players' side. Remember: It is on dealers' best interest to keep players thinking they can make them win or lose at will, as to make them tip more when the numbers are on their side as a "thank you" (out of pure randomness as those times when you have to hit are going to happen with whatever dealer or not; it just happen people doesn't understand the math of the game in full and the "guaranteed hit rate" they are granted as the edge is only -2.7% and that still leaves 97,3% from fair hit rate to have to happen).

Dealers get those "tips & winks" out of really making nothing. They really have to perpetuate these player's belief, there's real money for them involved on it.

Granted, some dealers are able to do it, but certain conditions have to be met. Specially good conditions like shallow pocket wheels, plus these dealers have to "know their wheel" in order to do so, have it tilted, known dominant drop area, and -of course- have previous actual practice on it. You can't just ask a dealer to come to any new casino and make the ball land on X or Y zone of the disc. Intentional dealer signature doesn't work that way. The more tilted and biased the wheel the better. But let's get serious, on a well-maintained precision device like a modern roulette wheel (read unbiased wheel, reasonably modern conditions), countermeasures are also there to prevent collusion on dealers' part. It isn't on casino's best interest to host any dealer who can change the odds of the game, this is "collusion prevention 101"!

Well mate, in my opinion we must allow some room for intentional dealer signature to happen under the right conditions, with a very practiced dealer, at a very "willing" wheel (as highlighted already).

...Can it happen on modern state-of-the-art level wheels with any random dealer you just take. I doubt it. Ask any dealer with tries to perform that trick: they have to know their wheel to try. And of course, whoever has its own wheel also have to forget about selective memory, dealers like players alike tend to remember WINS and forget losses (A win in this case being "aiming for 7 and neighbours and hitting"... but down to the raw totals, that hit rate being perfectly within the expected from unbiased outcomes).

Other aspect from this topic to mention is from those who are just plain down to nonsense when thinking they can influence actual game outcomes, as in "When I spin fast red comes"... Good ol' selective memory again. But out of respect to those ladies and gentlemen who spin the ball for us, I won't get down to elaborating on that aspect :).

Best regards.
Victor

Mattjono,
You brought me here,and I will just ask you all some questions;

--How many times did you see in mech.live casino table full covered with chips,except one number,and the ball lands
  exactly there.......once,twice or more times?????

--How often did you see a player/solo or with one more player on the table/betting small series 33-27...12 numbers,without a hit at all,untill he walks away broke from casino.Often or few times????

--How often did you see a player winning 12 out 13/14 hands,/on as similar example as above/and walks away full pockets.Rare or often????

--Are these above examples accidental????....or intentional???

--While ending practicing as apprentices croupiers,casinos employ only selected,these/that is from my experience/ can
   control the ball to certain assurance,or for instance,to hit the certain sector at least 6-8 times out of 12.....if not
   one would be again searching for a new job at unemployed office.All these stories /it is evident who is supporting it/
   that croupiers are indifferent,that they in fact wish that you win,are stories for small children.

   
   Therefore;
   

I would never recommend sit at the table unless there are at least 3 players.
I think above sentence is self explanatory...........Iboba 8)

Quote from: iboba on March 29, 2009, 03:50:24 PM
Mattjono,
You brought me here,and I will just ask you all some questions;

--How many times did you see in mech.live casino table full covered with chips,except one number,and the ball lands
  exactly there.......once,twice or more times?????

--How often did you see a player/solo or with one more player on the table/betting small series 33-27...12 numbers,without a hit at all,untill he walks away broke from casino.Often or few times????

--How often did you see a player winning 12 out 13/14 hands,/on as similar example as above/and walks away full pockets.Rare or often????

--Are these above examples accidental????....or intentional???

--While ending practicing as apprentices croupiers,casinos employ only selected,these/that is from my experience/ can
   control the ball to certain assurance,or for instance,to hit the certain sector at least 6-8 times out of 12.....if not
   one would be again searching for a new job at unemployed office.All these stories /it is evident who is supporting it/
   that croupiers are indifferent,that they in fact wish that you win,are stories for small children.

  
   Therefore;
  

I would never recommend sit at the table unless there are at least 3 players.
I think above sentence is self explanatory...........Iboba 8)

cheers iboba im sure your words will save alot of people alot of money.


but my biggest thoughts are that why would the dealer try to scam us, there must be something kept a secret, and the dealers must not talk alot about there job.

or i could just be parranoied.

question.
i go sit down at a roulette table as the women dealer is rearly stunning  ;). anyway the casino owner has been wandering around the casino for some time now, and the stunning women dealer does notice him.
anyway i place £100 on 0, £100 on 26, £100 on 32.
will the stunning women aim for the opposite side to the 0 on the wheel.


what im saying is that i will from now on be very carefull when playing in a casino with a thew players and playing very thew numbers on the wheel next to each other.


:-X :-X


mattjono

Hi Mattjono  ;)

why not put the bet done AFTER she has spun the ball ???

 :-X


cheers,  xman1970.

from now on i will do my testing at dublin and will place my chips down when the ball is spun.

(might learn about speeds of the wheel and ball)

cheers again
mattjono

Quote from: MATTJONO on March 30, 2009, 10:00:23 AM
:-X


cheers,  xman1970.

from now on I will do my testing at dublin and will place my chips down when the ball is spun.

(might learn about speeds of the wheel and ball)

cheers again
mattjono

Well at least you have the option to bet after the ball has spun with DB.... 8)

My suggestion was more for B&M casino's

Good luck.... :thumbsup:

hello all:)i believe that if a dealer has a skill then he could use it if you were playing only 1 dozen or 1 column with or against you.but in the case you play even bets or 2 dozens or 2 columns,its impossible to hit or miss by his will...i think it makes sence

There maybe something in the section below..... 8)


nolinks://vlsroulette.com/roulette-physics/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/roulette-physics/)

She/he can see after 2 hand you do progression on certain sector,dozen,number,etc.so it is unnecessary for a dealer waiting for you to put the bets,as he knows allready.
--Of course they can not talk about that.
--Of course/if you are solo player,or 2 all together at the table/if you bet 26,0,32,
  she/he will spin either 5,10 or 24 probably.
--Playing the wheel is very dangerous.
--Watch few weeks back on Dublinbet,man betting hand after a hand series 33-27=12neighbour  numbers on the wheel,and it did not hit more then 60 hands.Yes 60.Did not write wrong.
.................................Iboba 8)

Hi Iboba  ;)

So would you say playing a system flat betting & different numbers EACH spin would be the way to go ???


Cheers.....[smiley=beer.gif]

If these are spread all over the wheel,yes.........Cheers  Iboba 8)

Quote from: iboba on March 30, 2009, 01:24:45 PM
If these are spread all over the wheel,yes.........Cheers  Iboba 8)

Ok, thx for getting back to me.... :thumbsup:

How about betting a different section of the wheel (8 numbers) flat betting, & placing the bets after the ball has spun ???


Thanking you in advance..... :thumbsup:


Take it easy..... 8)

it seems that in the poll I made.

most people think that theres no way dealers will or can try to beat us.


my selection was with depends on the bets placed. :thumbsup:

mattjono

do you think we can beat the house edge with ??????????

1. FORGET ALL PREVIOUS SPINS
2. WHILE PEOPLE ARE PLACING BETS AND THE CLOCK IS TICKING DOWN WE DECIDE ON 2 RANDOM SECTIONS OF THE WHEEL BOTH SECTIONS/ BOWS ARE MADE UP WITH 4 NUMBERS EACH. so lets say we chose 0,32,15,19 and 8,23,10,5  = 8 numbers total.
    rememeber we decide what bets we are placing (2 DECIDED SECTIONS OF 4) however we do not place these bets until the dealer has spun the ball, so there is now way of therm knowing what 2 sections of the wheel we will be betting on next.
3. flatbets only until we hit a number, then if we was not in profit we can decide whever or not to now play 2 units per number depending on the profit/loss when you hit a number from your sections last time.


you may all not know what im going on about lol  :-X

but ill go try thew sessions on dublinbet for sure.



(((i believe some people can have a skill/see the future (sort of)/ instinct/ good at guessing what will come.... a  sort of skill ...i think and the random power of our minds could work alot better than looking into past results. )))

Quote from: MATTJONO on March 30, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
do you think we can beat the house edge with ??????????

1. FORGET ALL PREVIOUS SPINS
2. WHILE PEOPLE ARE PLACING BETS AND THE CLOCK IS TICKING DOWN WE DECIDE ON 2 RANDOM SECTIONS OF THE WHEEL BOTH SECTIONS/ BOWS ARE MADE UP WITH 4 NUMBERS EACH. so lets say we chose 0,32,15,19 and 8,23,10,5  = 8 numbers total.
    rememeber we decide what bets we are placing (2 DECIDED SECTIONS OF 4) however we do not place these bets until the dealer has spun the ball, so there is now way of therm knowing what 2 sections of the wheel we will be betting on next.
3. flatbets only until we hit a number, then if we was not in profit we can decide whever or not to now play 2 units per number depending on the profit/loss when you hit a number from your sections last time.


you may all not know what im going on about lol  :-X

but ill go try thew sessions on dublinbet for sure.



(((I believe some people can have a skill/see the future (sort of)/ instinct/ good at guessing what will come.... a  sort of skill ...I think and the random power of our minds could work alot better than looking into past results. )))

You are playing 8 numbers Matty, so you could flat bet for 36 spins.....

8 hits = zero profit

9 hits = +36 units (1 UPS Units per Spin Profit)
10 hits= +72 units 2 UPS

Etc Etc...

&

7 hits = -36 units
6 hits = -72 units

Etc Etc...


Just a thought..... 8)

cheers xman1970,

mattjono

no problem  ;)

hope it helps.... :thumbsup: