I have created a flatbetting even chance system with bets placed on average every 7 spins.
session 1 test. ( 230 spins ) bets placed 37 times.
W
L
W
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
L
W
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
W=27
L=10
+17UNITS
matt
Hi, Mattjono, looks interesting!!
How do you bet ?
Friendly roul
Hi Matt
Nice results mate.
Are you gona impart more information?
I would be interested to see how your betting
TSK
HI Matt I 4 1 would love to see the full system by G** the results are great .MATT please please post TKS Colin
Gave this method a go yesterday
2 sessions using all six EC
+6units(60 euro) 78spins
+8units(80 euro) 83 spins
In play money
Did not go lower than starting and max draw down
was about 3 units.
Will continue to test.
Quote from: northa on June 22, 2009, 03:53:24 AM
Gave this method a go yesterday
2 sessions using all six EC
+6units(60 euro) 78spins
+8units(80 euro) 83 spins
In play money
Did not go lower than starting and max draw down
was about 3 units.
Will continue to test.
nice one Northa.
Hi Jono,
I've been messing around with your strategy, and started testing a variant that is a little more aggressive. To be honest I was a bit sceptical in the beginning as ECs are notoriously difficult to win consistently with - and I'm still not 100% convinced - but perhaps your idea is worth pursuing. Don't want to be a downer but my experience of ECs is entirely forgettable. Anyway, I'm working on something else at the moment but I'm also interested in adding a new approach to my game. So for now I'm looking at the ECs. I've tested your strategy variant against 100 spins from Spielbank - that amounts to approx. 70 bets, so you can see that it's pretty much playing nearly every spin. A breakdown:
Session 1
Spins 51
Bets 34
Won 20
Lost 14
Hit rate 59%
Bal. +6
Session 2
Spins 50
Bets 33
Won 23
Lost 10
Hit Rate 70%
Bal. +13
Session 2 was a delight. I've also used a 6-point divisor and you can add around 3 or 4 units to the +21 total. A pluscoup would also work as long as the hits are regular. For the next session I might consider a positive progression of some kind to escalate the balance - I think this would work very well. Tomorrow I'll let you know how I'm testing. It's very similar to the method you outlined in the full systems board, just has a few changes here and there. I've also got an excel spreadsheet if you want to have a look. With methods like these there are many different variants and it's all about finding the most effective one, which can sometimes be time-consuming. Perhaps you should get this coded if you can.
:)
Session 3
Spins 50
Bets 38
Won 22
Lost 16
Hit Rate 58%
Bal. +6
Hi six.
Very glad to still be seeing each session in the profit side. 8)
I hope from this we can change your view on E.C betting. And cannot wait to hear your adjustments to the smart way. Ill be tying to keep up with you NumberSix and ill work with you to try and find the most effective way of playing this type of play.
JONO
I have done a test and would like to share the results.
betting all even chances after 2 hits depending whever or not we would of won the last bet (trying to avoid the zig-zag motion) which is where we find most of the losses.
so playing all EE?,OO?,RR?,BB?,HH?,LL? AFTER A VERTUAL WIN.
ODD EVEN
W W
W L
W L
W L
W L
L W
L L
W L
L W
W W
L L
W -2
W
W
W
7
+5units from odd/even
RED BLACK
W W
W L
W W
W L
L L
L W
W L
W L
W L
W L
W -7
L
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
13
+6units from red/black
HIGH LOW
W L
L W
W L
W L
L W
W
W -1
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
11
+10 from high/low
SUMMARY OF 220 SPINS// 75 BETS PLACED....29LOSING BETS AND 46 WINNING BETS.
AND 0 APEARED 6 TIMES.
it seems that we get a winner and a loser for each of the even chances betting the same way with the same rules on high bets +11 and on low bets -1.
JONO
Playing this on a live wheel is very consuming is it practical?
@Matt
what happen to your street system?
Jerek, how's it going mate?
It's not impractical I don't think. Placing one bet every 3 spins. But yes, time-consuming, unless you're using very high value chips. It's too much of a grind for me, so I've made a variant that's more aggressive, betting around every 2 spins. I'm also introducing Marven's up as you win staking plan, as I think a positive prog would suit this. Got 500 Spielbank spins to test against, so I'll post the spreadsheet when done.
6
Quote from: See_Jerek on June 23, 2009, 07:14:05 PM
Playing this on a live wheel is very consuming is it practical?
@Matt
what happen to your street system?
hi jerek I agree with you it is very consuming but most of my tests seem to pan out at +1unit for every 10spins on average depending on what triggers you use. making +20units in 200spins seems not practicle...BUT think about it we go to casino with $200 bankroll playing with $10 on the even chances flatbetting, I Believe you could double $200 to $400 in a max of 200spins with very little risk of losing your bankroll. (BUT YES the only problem I have with this is the time consuming part)
im sure Numbersix will give us even more hope for this play.
JONO
MattJ what best triggers to use
Triggers for the aggressive smart way:
Playing all 6 ECs.
Track until you have two ECs hitting back to back...eg RR OO...etc.
The third decision makes the pattern to be attacked...eg RR(R) or BB(B) or HH(H) or OO(E)...whatever it might be.
If an attack wins, that pattern stays dominant for the next attack. If it loses, that pattern deactivates and changes.
EG....patterns active are BB(B), RR(B), HH(L), LL(H), OO(E), EE(E)
[table=,]
Out,Comb,Bet,Res,Notes
5,RLO
34,RHE
33,BHO,RR – Bet B,W,RR(B) stays active. Track from this spin
6,BLE,HH – Bet L,W,HH(L) stays active. Track from this spin
21,RHO,BB – Bet B,L,BB(R) is new pattern. Track from this spin
28,BHE
26,BHE,HH - Bet L,L,HH(H) is new pattern. Track from this spin
12,RLE,BB - Bet R,W,BB(R) stays active. Track from this spin
,,EE - Bet E,W,EE(E) stays active. Track from this spin
[/table]
mjono, this is your method, yes? Only there's no waiting for the sequence to break after a win or lose?
To me it makes more sense to attack aggressively and not wait for the breaks as the logic, if there is any, is to jump on the dominant series. The ECs do tend to clump together and chop in singles rarely, so waiting for breaks means you're missing a lot of opportunities and not exploiting the dominant series to full effect. I'm still in two minds about this, although I've now tested 250 spins and around 200 bets and I'm about +40 flat betting.
I'm trying to test this way wholesale at the moment against 500 Spielbank numbers, but it's taking some time. I've only done 100 so far. Here is the summary:
100 Spins
81 Bets
44 Won
37 Lost
54% Hit Rate
It's +11 flat betting but...I also applied Marven's five leveller and got +32! That's a nice return. It was -10/11 at one point, but a good run towards the end (13 wins in 15) netted 42 units to give the 32 profit. I think that was lucky, which is why I'm still not convinced. It's a nice simple method and I think someone should code it for RX.
I've attached my spreadsheet (there may be compatibility issues) - the outcomes are on sheet 1 - with the first 100 numbers done. Gold bets are the wins, pinkish the losses. wx1, wx2 etc is the number of wins in the last 5 for Marven's leveller. Someone can carry on testing...or shall I do it :D
6
Took down spreadsheet, there is a new one later on.
I tested the next 100 numbers and got +2 flat betting and +6 from the positive progression (was at +30ish during a good run....in a real situation I would have walked, obviously). I don't have time to continue testing, so everything combined I've got these results flat betting:
[table=,]
Spins,Bets,Won,Lost,Hit Rate,Bal
350,276,155,121,56.2%,+34
[/table]
Positive progression:
[table=,]
Spins,Bets,Won,Lost,Hit Rate,Bal
200,171,90,81,52.6%,+46
[/table]
It's a nice little method and the positive staking plan works very well with it. Regardless of how you play it, I'd recommend a fairly high but achievable profit target, such as 15 units and a loss of -10 (flat betting). Or play in sessions of max. 50-100 spins. The progression is actually very good, because it's not uncommon to encounter excellent runs winning around 12 or 13 in 15 bets or 8 in 10 - get that and you'll easily recoup any deficit and come up at something like +30-40 units (you won't, however, get these results if you virtual bet or wait for sequences to break because you'll be missing the dominant series). It's down to preference I guess. I'm not a full grinder.
My strategy for this would be to bet aggressively with the up as you win plan and just ride the flow until the appearance of a lasting dominant series. When that series breaks, I'd quit the session and expect to have in the region of at least 20+ units (depending on previous outcomes). If the series doesn't come, I'd quit after a couple of hours and start attacking the pleins :D
EDIT:
Made a few mistakes with the results. The progression balance is actually +46, not +38. From the second test of the Spielbank numbers, the profit was +14. I've attached new spreadsheet. In both sets of 100 numbers you can easily see where the good runs occur and the profits escalate hugely :) They don't last long, however, so if anyone wants to play this aggressive way, timing the exit point with maximum profits is important. Mjono, I feel I'm taking over your method...I'll finish testing the 500 numbers and that will be that.
Six
-Took spread down. Doing another test :laugh:
Thanks SIX
I have been testing with positve progression 150spins. I know the session would of been around the even mark if I was flatbetting but I used a positve progression and got to -16 at one point and +19 at another point, anyway I carried on till the end of the 150spins that I cut and pasted before I tested on them and ended +10.
SIX have you noticed that we know nothing is 100% in roulette but with this play we keep our bankroll very safe and every session I have played I have always had a point where I could of walked with a nice profit like +10units seems a great reasonable target.
regards,
mattjono
I HAVE noticed that the drawdowns are very slight flat betting, rarely more than around the 10 unit mark.
With the positive prog they are larger, sometimes around 20 units, but part of the progression strategy is exit point and getting out after the good run - which is almost inevitable. I've attached a little graph to show the BR trend in the second Spielbank test with the progression. It was very up and down, but had two good runs. I can live with that. It covers 100 spins, 90 bets.
Quote from: MATTJONO
(feel abit sad testing all the time and not playing for real, however my time will come and ill be well prepaired)
JONO
Let Elvis give you some advice: only fools rush in :thumbsup:
TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST,
I made up an even chance method the other night,
only showed a 2 unit loss once after testing 15 x 100 spin sessions,
Got so confident I played it for real money and lost a 20 unit bankroll in only 79 spins,
Just goes to show TEST it to death before you part with any money,
Davemd.
Wise words Davemd :good:
Herb reckons 10,000 PLACED bets is the testing benchmark...... 8)
I'm going to post the results from my Spielbank test [only] here using the aggressive way. I have done a few other preliminary tests, but I won't include those results.
[table=,]
Test,Spins,Bets,Won,Lost,Hit Rate,FB Bal,Prog Bal
1,100,81,46,35,56.8%,+11,+32
2,100,90,46,44,51.1%,+2,+14
3,100,90,50,40,55.6%,+10,+22
4,100,90,46,44,51.1%,+2,-11
5,100,82,45,37,54.9%,+8,+12
6,100,89,46,43,51.7%,+3,+20
7,100,86,44,42,51.2%,+2,+2
8,100,79,33,46,41.8%,-15,-18
9,100,76,33,43,43.4%,-10,0
10,100,93,56,37,60.2%,+19,+77
TOTAL,1000,856,445,411,52.0%,+34,+150
[/table]
Fourth test was negative with the staking plan. There was a good exit point, though, after around 60 spins where it was +10 - prior to that the balance was mostly negative. It slumped straightaway, had a good run and then slumped again. It was also a tough session for flat betting. A tough session all round.
I'm still quite impressed, however, as the testing doesn't entirely reflect real play and every session has produced good exit points...with the staking plan I would have taken, +32, +26, +13, +10, +13, +36, +10, +11, +24 and +39.
ADD: I've decided to carry on with test for another five sessions. That will be 1000 spins and hopefully not much short of 1000 bets. I believe those sorts of figures will offer a more useful guideline regarding the method's performance and reliability. Session six was excellent with the staking plan and the BR exploded to +46 at one point, to reach a record high of +115. That is the best run yet. It involved winning 10 out of 11 bets, with some good double and triple wins.
Session 7 had a drawdown to -15. A good run got the balance back to +10 - a good exit point there. The hit rate is dropping slowly but surely.
Session 8 is the worst performance yet. +11 was a good exit point using the progression. I would have been happy to quit there with that. The hit rate was a disgrace. I've already decided the aggressive way is not viable with the staking plan, and I will look to change it but for now I'll finish the last two tests and then go back over the results to strengthen the in-game strategy. The BR is on its way down now, we'll see if it's got any recovery ability. I have to reiterate that although some sessions have been negative, they have all produced acceptable exit points. Maybe it's a fluke but a good run almost always appears. Some last longer than others, but even in session eight (where the balance was perpetually negative on both sides of the good run) it was positive for 8 spins and that was a good window to exit.
I have to laugh at session 10. This is the last test and it was astounding. After two sessions of slumping, it hit back hugely. With the staking plan it was +77 to end, which doubled the entire balance in only 100 spins. It was basically a perfect session in which all three series remained dominant for the whole spin sample. My exit point would have been +39, very early on.
6
BR graph for 1000 spins and for session 10:
flat betting
a system indicates a genuine superiority if after 1000 placed bets a gain of more than 100 units was obtained
or if after 100000 placed bets a result better than - 1000 was obtained
Number6,
what positve progression have you been using i was using 1,1,2,3,4,5...ect seems like we have been getting the same results and having looked at your graph im saying your due a nice +30 for the last 100 spins.
so far so good tho we have had no big drawdowns which is why the system is so safe.
would something like marvins 5 level staking plan work with this system as the losses and wins seem to clump together alot.
(ill have a look anyway but im sure it works better with more than a 18number bet.)
JONO
Quote from: I have cookies
flat betting
a system indicates a genuine superiority if after 1000 placed bets a gain of more than 100 units was obtained
or if after 100000 placed bets a result better than - 1000 was obtained
I believe that it's possible to achieve +100 from 1000 bets using this simple method, but only in conjunction with an effective exit strategy and maybe some in-play variation. The drawdowns flat betting are only very slight. I would very much use a predetermined profit target flat betting and with the positive progression I'd exit depending on how the session is progressing. A short good run might get you from -15 to +10 or better. If that session was going difficult up to that point, I'd cut out there and not expect to get any higher if I stayed. If you're hovering at around even, a good run will easily get you up to +30 or +40. The method can be improved, I'm sure, by making the bet selection a little less rigid. However, in the fifth session of my test an OO-E sequence stayed dominant for 100 spins, and if it wasn't for that the ending balance probably would have been negative again. The OO-E sequence won around 15 in 20 bets, and collapsed towards the end. It was fun testing, and I may look back on the results to see where the bet method is most vulnerable. I'm thinking the staking plan it not 100% suitable.
--------
Quote from: MATTJONO
would something like marvins 5 level staking plan work with this system as the losses and wins seem to clump together alot.
That is the staking plan I've been using. On the very good runs it's absolutely brilliant and will make you a lot of units. With quite a few Ls mixed in with the Ws, though, it's like one step forward, one back, and you never get anywhere. I may look to tweak it a little to add a bit of protection to the profits.
Quotebut only in conjunction with an effective exit strategy and maybe some in-play variation
Then if you are flat betting then you can reduce you win target with the amount of loses.
If you know how to hovering around 50% or hit a ratio above 50% then this can become useful.
Lets say you have a 5 units bankroll to win 5 units.
Then you do this when you make your first attack.
Reducing your win target depending on your loses.
If you hit one loss when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 4 units.
If you hit two loses when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 3 units.
If you hit three loses when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 2 units.
If you hit four loses when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 1 unit.
If you hit 5 loses the attack is over with a 5 unit loss.
Here is one thing you can add to this.
If you won and finish one attack and are at least +1 then you can let it ride until you hit your first loss then end that session.
a) Profit 19 units flat betting with a 5 units bankroll using allternativ one only.
b) Profit 19 units flat betting with a 5 units bankroll using allrenativ one and let it ride.
Demonstration.
Trngs 080114
LW Registry wlwlnolinkslwlwlwwlwwllnolinksllwlwlwlnolinksnolinkswwlwwlwlwlnolinkslwlnolinksnolinksllw
Session 1.
w 1 +1
l 1 0..................Reduce win target by 1
w 1 +1
l 1 0
w 1 +1
w 1 +2
w 1 +3
l 1 +2
w 1 +3
l 1 +2
w 1 +3
l 1 +2
w 1 +3
w 1 +4 ...... Session is over +4 units profit. Here you could let the last win ride until one loss.
l 1 +3 ........ Session ends with +3 units profit.
---
Session 2.
w 1 +1
w 1 +2
l 1 +1
l 1 0...........Reduce win target by 2.
w 1 +1
w 1 +2
w 1 +3 ..... Session is over +3 units profit. Here you could let the last win ride until one loss.
l 1 +2 .......Session ends with +2 units profit.
---
Session 3.
l 1 -1 ......... Reducing win targen by 1.
w 1 0
l 1 -1
w 1 0
l 1 -1
w 1 0
l 1 -1
w 1 0
w 1 +1
w 1 +2
w 1 +3
w 1 +4 ....... Session is over +4 units profit. Here you could let the last win ride until one loss.
w 1 +5
w 1 +6
w 1 +7
l 1 +6 ......... Session ends with +6 units profit.
---
Session 4.
w 1 +1
w 1 +2
l 1 +1
w 1 +2
l 1 +1
w 1 +2
l 1 +1
w 1 +2
w 1 +3
w 1 +4
l 1 +3
----
Session 5.
w 1 +1
l 1 0
w 1 +1
w 1 +2
w 1 +3
w 1 +4
w 1 +5
w 1 +6
l 1 +5
Here is Matt's LW-Registry from the first post.
W=27 L=10
Session 1
W 1
L 1
W 1
W 1
W 1 +4
Session 2
W 1
L 1
W 1
L 1
W 1
W 1
W 1
L 1
L 1
W 1
W 1 +3
Session 3
W 1
W 1
L 1
W 1
W 1
L 1
W 1
W 1 +4
Session 4
L 1
W 1
W 1
L 1
L 1
W 1
W 1
W 1
W 1 +3
W
W
W
W
Quote from: I have cookies
If you know how to hovering around 50% or hit a ratio above 50% then this can become useful.
Lets say you have a 5 units bankroll to win 5 units.
Then you do this when you make your first attack.
Reducing your win target depending on your loses.
If you hit one loss when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 4 units.
If you hit two loses when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 3 units.
If you hit three loses when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 2 units.
If you hit four loses when you play you reduce your win target of 5 units to 1 unit.
If you hit 5 loses the attack is over with a 5 unit loss.
Here is one thing you can add to this.
If you won and finish one attack and are at least +1 then you can let it ride until you hit your first loss then end that session.
Yep, I'm thinking along these lines. There needs to be a way of protecting the accumulated profits. For example, with Marven's staking plan you might get a triple win of 5u each...but then lose it all, or most of it, on the next bet. Sometimes the balance was rising to +40, then fifteen bets later is was back to even. I think in the grand scheme of things you can easily tell how a session is going and should adjust targets accordingly. If I was up and down for 60 spins, then hit a good run a climbed up to +20ish, I'd just quit there. In 100 spins you'll rarely see more than a +15 profit flat betting and +40 with a positive progression, so those are good benchmarks. If you hit those range, you're not getting higher.
Well i am not Marven i am Lucky Strike :)
Cheers
Is i
Quote from: I have cookies on June 26, 2009, 01:41:59 PM
Well I am not Marven I am Lucky Strike :)
Cheers
t just me or am i abit slow. didnt know 'I have cookies' was you lucky strike.
:thumbsup:
Hello 6,
I agree with you totally,this system is worth a punt if you play big units like $10 seems worthwhile.
How much BR do you reckon is enough for a session?
Hello Matt,
You got the man,Number 6 is one of the more innovative guys around.sometimes his systems are so deep till I can't understand.I am sure he can refine this to a higher level.
I like flat betting,I truly do as its low risk and keeps the BR safe most of the time.Any form of progression can kill,sometimes faster sometimes slower.lol
What positive progression are you guys using?
I am doing ok testing by flat betting - 240 spins +22units
Would like to try a progression to compare.
Quote from: northa on June 27, 2009, 07:17:24 AM
What positive progression are you guys using?
I am doing ok testing by flat betting - 240 spins +22units
Would like to try a progression to compare.
It seems your getting around the +1 units on average per 10 spins. :thumbsup:
try this below northa
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/marven's-5-level-staking-plan/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/marven's-5-level-staking-plan/)
MATTJONO
P.S I deposited £5 on betfred this morning I tracked and then I place £1 on B, £1 on O, £1 on high, (looking at the trends it seemed like a good 1st bet)
anyway the number spun in was 29 BLACK ODD and in the HIGH section. So I won my first bet and am on £8.09p I logged off with my +£3. ( ill see what happens later)
Jerek, thanks for the compliment. Often I don't understand myself either :girl_wacko:
High value units, yes. I gave it whirl last night, only with £2 units to start and gain some confidence in the method. Then I played a second session with £5 units. I managed a £55 profit, but it was quite a long grind and in the end I got bored. The BR graph shows that it's up and down all the time and climbs very slowly. I'm working on a way of profit protection, to minimise the more destructive slumps.
has anyone tried the 6 point divisor plan?
I have finished testing the aggressive variant of the smart way against 1000 Spielbank spins. The results are contained in reply 20 on page 2.
There were some bad sessions, some average and some very good. Even the sessions where the hit rate was less than 45% produced acceptable exit points at around +10u. Good runs are inevitable where one or two, or sometimes three, series dominate and you get a lot of double and triple wins close together. With Marven's up as you win staking plan, these good runs will escalate the BR and even with an overall poor hit rate you can still get out in profit.
Flat betting with the aggressive variant is not possible. Some sort of postive progression has to be used. Marven's plan is lethal at times...see the result for session 10 (lots of triple wins netting +15u). But it is also damaging to the BR when the hits dry up. Anywhere around +20-30 is a good exit point. +10 should be taken if the session is going badly. It's imperative to quit after the good run, or as soon as you get to the +20 range. I wouldn't say that is a hit and run strategy. It is merely quitting with some, or an adequate, profit. It is not getting greedy and being happy with small and sustainable wins. I feel there will always be times where the balance is positive, these moments may not last long or they may last very long, either way they are the exit windows.
I may go back and try to strengthen the in-game strategy. OR, I will work on a more suitable staking plan, such as a modified Paroli/Parley - this cannot be played with a negative progression or a divisor. A divisor simply won't work because the hit rate will never be high enough. It has to be up as you win...hit that good run and then quit.
Anyway, that is my take on the smart way so far.
great results number6 and session 10 well what can i say hopefully we will get a thew of these amazing sessions and hardly any sessions ending in a minus bankroll.
I have to say you have made this system the way it is now the staking plan surly makes a difference.
mattjono
p.s by the way i got my £5 to £41 at one point during the weekend (i only collect if i reach £100). anyway i got down from £40 to £3.20p and said o.k looking at the smart way and what was happening patterns ect. £2 on red £20p on 0 and £1 on street 10,11,12 and after a very long minute spun in RED, EVEN, LOW number 12 and i was now on £18 and another 30 mins it was gone. BUT HAY IT WAS ALL FUN £5 COULD MAKE ME RICH ONE DAY ;D.
Well, I think the aggressive way is actually not at all different to the original way you outlined. I only decided to bet every opportunity to stave off a lot of tracking in between these triggers. I expect the hit rates from boths ways would be very similar. The staking plan does make a difference. It is really lethal sometimes. Problem is, the larger drawdowns come with it also. I've had fun testing it and I have played it once for real money. I think for a mechanical bet it has promise and could be improved to become the basis of a nice little strategy.
Mattjono did you give up on this idea? I see you're having more succes with testing sectors at the moment...
Vix
Quote from: vix on July 09, 2009, 05:03:42 AM
Mattjono did you give up on this idea? I see you're having more succes with testing sectors at the moment...
Vix
hi Vix
well the enjoyment factor rearly does need to be involved when playing roulette or the :diablo: may take over. (for me anyway)
but I can say that im glad I did the testing of this E.C the smart way and im sure it will come in handy in the future when im playing with £10 units maybe ;D
thanks,
mattjono