Alright, just so everybody knows, this is my first test of the bot. I always test things with Play Money before taking them live. So, my next test will be with real money, and I will post those results (good or bad) here.
I let the bot run overnight at PlayTech's "Mansion Casino". It spun the wheel an amazing 66,481 times and here are the stats of play (it was betting with .01 units)
Starting BR: $6074.88
Ending BR: $6161.44
Net Profit: $86.56
Lowest BR Balance: $5951.68
Largest Drawdown: $154.96 (This happened once, the second largest drawdown around $46.00)
You can download those 66k spins, without the betting history (as the bot doesn't export the spins with the betting history, just the spins themselves) here: nolinks://vlsroulette.com/actuals-permanences/21-400-playtech-spins-(mansion-casino)/msg66282/#msg66282
Also, I have included a picture of the bot's home screen below:
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Excellent!! Really good to hear RJ, can't wait to see how it does for you in real money mode :thumbsup:
Good choice, Tiago is the best with this kind of bot !!
I wish you best of luck RJ.
Lulloz
which system do you use?
Best of luck rjeaton1 :thumbsup: and I hope the bot prooves to be a valuable asset in helping you play the system!
rjeaton1
66,000 spins? Wow! You make my 5,000 seem so tiny.
Just to make myself giggle, I will download your spins and run them through the bot I am using. It should ignore the zeros if there are any. This should be fun.........
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on June 16, 2009, 11:20:51 PM
rjeaton1
66,000 spins? Wow! You make my 5,000 seem so tiny.
Just to make myself giggle, I will download your spins and run them through the bot I am using. It should ignore the zeros if there are any. This should be fun.........
Sam
That would be pretty cool actually, as I was thinking about buying "super-roulette bot". You're bot seems to bet significantly more often than mine however, so I would imagine yours is going to come out ahead as far as winnings go.
Also, the only reason I was able to do so many spins was because I chose to do my first test on a PlayTech casino (which has a quick spin option). My next test will be on BetVoyagers no-zero wheel. I'll be running that tonight (with play money as well).
My last test will be on a mini-roulette wheel (that will be just for fun, as I recently found out that the mini-roulette wheel has an edge of over 7%)
It did terrible!
That zero really throws the system I'm using off.
(By the way, it's Matt's idea and Tiago's work. I'm just a happy bystander.)
Sam
QuoteIt did terrible!
That zero really throws the system I'm using off.
(By the way, it's Matt's idea and Tiago's work. I'm just a happy bystander.)
Sam
I bet you still learned a great deal. The testing has probably helped you understand just how far out of reach system testing is without the use of a computer.
Imagine if you were just a regular player that was playing this way at live tables. You would feel like you have a winning system. Weeks could pass before a run that wipes you out.
As you can see, systems can appear to win for several thousands of trials before tanking. The bot helps the user comprehend the normal random fluctuations of the game. However, It doesn't give the user any kind of an edge.
Regards,
Herb
Herb
You could be right! However, I'll chance it and have fun while doing it.
Sam
I have to admit, these bots look like fun. I'd like to try some on some free mode RNGs.
Quote from: rjeaton1 on June 16, 2009, 11:33:31 PM
My last test will be on a mini-roulette wheel (that will be just for fun, as I recently found out that the mini-roulette wheel has an edge of over 7%)
Bot wont play on Mini roulette. The bot is configured for the system to only allow it to play on NoZero and Single 0 boards. The bot is able to play at mini roulette and thinking about it now theres no reason why this system wouldn't work on a mini roulette wheel. Simple mod to add support for the system to play at mini wheels, will try to get this coded for you tomorow so you can continue testing.
Quote from: haribekur on June 16, 2009, 06:54:02 PM
which system do you use?
I'm using the system I talked about on the thread "rj's law of the third system". The only difference being I'm allowing it to go 21 bets into the progression (which if it made it that far, would be a full set of 37 spins as it tracks 16 spins before betting).
Granted, that would be terribly scary for it to make it that far, but as of now it hasn't. Could it happen...sure, haha. However, before I started testing it with the bot using the casinos actual RNG (by letting it actually play the system at the casino) I tested the same setup with RXtreme (I was testing with RXtreme because I didn't have the bot back yet). I ran it for 850k spins and the largest drawdown was somewhere around 54,000 units (which in pennies would be $540)...and that happened only one time.
So, we'll see how it goes.
Quote from: Tiago2 on June 17, 2009, 01:40:17 AM
Bot wont play on Mini roulette. The bot is configured for the system to only allow it to play on NoZero and Single 0 boards. The bot is able to play at mini roulette and thinking about it now theres no reason why this system wouldn't work on a mini roulette wheel. Simple mod to add support for the system to play at mini wheels, will try to get this coded for you tomorow so you can continue testing.
You're unbelievable Tiago (in a very very good way, lol).
Just so everybody knows, I didn't know that it wouldn't work on a mini-roulette wheel as is. I thought it would because it says "mini-roulette" in the setup option, but obviously that was only because the bot CAN work on a mini-roulette wheel. But, in my original request to Tiago, I never asked it to work on a mini-roulette wheel as well so it just wouldn't have worked had I tried.
When I put that post up, he apparently (sorry about referring to you as if you "aren't here" Tiago, don't mean to be rude I promise) saw it and took it upon himself to make it so that it would work. This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about in the testimonial I put up about him in the "roulette coding" section...exceptional service...Kudos Tiago!
no news about the bot and your testings ?
@ Fqbien - I'll soon post more test results, I just requested a couple of additional inputs to my bot. I don't know if you've read this thread: nolinks://vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=9947.0 but the .DGT file posted there is what my bot is (except with a couple of additional inputs).
I re-wrote that .DGT file and added a couple of more things to it and found something that is even better than the results I was having previously. I asked Tiago if he could add these inputs I discovered into the bot for me. He happily obliged (in fact, in took him less than 24 hours to install one of the inputs...he really is a great person to work with...yet again I say this, haha). Oh, I forgot, not only did he add one of the inputs I requested (I requested the two inputs on two different days) but when he emailed it back to me with the first new input I requested, he also let me know that it would also work on the mini-roulette wheel. Which it does, and it is pretty cool actually.
I'll have it back with the other input soon. As soon as I do I will begin posting my results again.
ok, thanks RJ !
So, in this test I was looking to make an improvement over the results of my last test. (meaning looking for less of a drawdown and more profit).
Looks as though (at this point anyway) I've found that. Keep in mind this test is actually at Mansion Casino, not using RXtreme or any downloaded spins. These are actuals, as produced by Playtechs Mansion Casino.
This time, instead of typing my results I've just attached the BR balance trend that the bot makes as it plays. I've also attached a picture of the User Interface Screen.
I've even made a video, for those of you who would like to see this thing in action (if you haven't seen a bot work before it's pretty cool). I didn't make the video using LiveStream this time, as it made everything VERY laggy. Instead, I used Camtasia Studio to record my desktop and I've uploaded the video. You can download the video here if you'd like: nolinks://nolinks.megaupload.com/?d=1R7KHDYG
Also, I kept mentioning how amazing it was the Tiago got this bot finished as quickly as he did considering all of the inputs I requested. Just so you can get an accurate idea of how complicated it is, I've also attached a snapshot of "the systems" input screen.
Best results yet, RJ! $42 profit using .01c bets, very awesome. Once I can get my running ball of sugar (aka my daughter) in bed I'll sneak a peek @ the video.
Also, is the .DGT file for this done or still in the tweaking process?
Quote from: celiza427 on June 21, 2009, 09:29:48 PM
Best results yet, RJ! $42 profit using .01c bets, very awesome. Once I can get my running ball of sugar (aka my daughter) in bed I'll sneak a peek @ the video.
Also, is the .DGT file for this done or still in the tweaking process?
Not to mention the largest drawdown only being (roughly) $13. I'm sure it is going to get larger as I go through more spins, but based on the way it is performing now, it
shouldn't be too often.
As for the .DGT file... :P ...It's giving me some problems. I'm trying to work into it all of the inputs you see on the picture in the above post. I'm not doing too bad, but as all the instruction I have is the booklet they "give out" at ux software on how to code, I'm running into a few walls.
I'm going to give myself a day and half more to figure out what I haven't figured out up until this point and if I still can't do it I'm going to pay to have it done for me....I'm about to pull my hair out...haha.
Quote from: rjeaton1 on June 21, 2009, 09:36:58 PM
Not to mention the largest drawdown only being (roughly) $13. I'm sure it is going to get larger as I go through more spins, but based on the way it is performing now, it shouldn't be too often.
As for the .DGT file... :P ...It's giving me some problems. I'm trying to work into it all of the inputs you see on the picture in the above post. I'm not doing too bad, but as all the instruction I have is the booklet they "give out" at ux software on how to code, I'm running into a few walls.
I'm going to give myself a day and half more to figure out what I haven't figured out up until this point and if I still can't do it I'm going to pay to have it done for me....I'm about to pull my hair out...haha.
Aww lol, well don't pull your hair out. But here's hoping you get it figured on your own w/o having to pay money again. So the drawdown is now $13? Using .01c bets isn't that 1300 units? Isn't this the same system where the drawdown was approx. $112? Sorry, just got all sorts of confused...it's been a long day lol.
Quote from: celiza427 on June 21, 2009, 10:18:00 PM
Aww lol, well don't pull your hair out. But here's hoping you get it figured on your own w/o having to pay money again. So the drawdown is now $13? Using .01c bets isn't that 1300 units? Isn't this the same system where the drawdown was approx. $112? Sorry, just got all sorts of confused...it's been a long day lol.
Yes, using .01 as units $13 is a 1300 unit drawdown. The difference between this system and the one where the drawdown was approx. $112 is this:
The system where the largest drawdown was $112, I was using $1 as unit value. That means the largest drawdown was only 112 units. If I were using .01 as unit value in the system you're talking about the largest drawdown would still have been 112 units, but only $1.12 in terms on money.
Now, with the system I'm talking about in this thread (and the only reason for the change was that I was looking for something that bet more often. The system you're talking about had huge gaps between betting sessions) the largest drawdown is $13 using .01 as unit value. As you already mentioned that is 1300 units. But, if this were the same system as the one you're talking about (where I was using $1 as unit value) that would be a drawdown of $1,300.
Great question Celiza, I'm glad you asked as I didn't think to clear this up, and some other members probably were thinking the same thing.
I like your avatar rjeaton1 :)
Quote from: Bazeegar on June 21, 2009, 10:44:29 PM
I like your avatar rjeaton1 :)
Haha, Thanks Bazeegar ;D
Quote from: rjeaton1 on June 21, 2009, 10:36:41 PM
Yes, using .01 as units $13 is a 1300 unit drawdown. The difference between this system and the one where the drawdown was approx. $112 is this:
The system where the largest drawdown was $112, I was using $1 as unit value. That means the largest drawdown was only 112 units. If I were using .01 as unit value in the system you're talking about the largest drawdown would still have been 112 units, but only $1.12 in terms on money.
Now, with the system I'm talking about in this thread (and the only reason for the change was that I was looking for something that bet more often. The system you're talking about had huge gaps between betting sessions) the largest drawdown is $13 using .01 as unit value. As you already mentioned that is 1300 units. But, if this were the same system as the one you're talking about (where I was using $1 as unit value) that would be a drawdown of $1,300.
Great question Celiza, I'm glad you asked as I didn't think to clear this up, and some other members probably were thinking the same thing.
Oh ok, thanks for the explanation. I understand betting more often makes it a more playable system, but wouldn't the 1st way (drawdown being 112 units) be a more successful bot system since it really doesn't get "tired" of waiting, so to speak? lol Yes, I would about keel over from boredom waiting 5,000 spins to place a bet - but a bot could care less.
Just thought I'd put that out there. I'm by no means knocking the 2nd version either. If that was .10c units that's still $420 profit with a $130 drawdown. If that stays consistent I'd take that any day!
rjeaton my dear friend....
if you can find a bot that can win consistently on at RNG then... my friend, ure on the right track...
these things are hard to beat, very hard
i would urge you to keep ure sessions small and often, alternating between casinos...
PKR casino is one of the best for table limits .... flat betting is 0.10 min 150 max... i think its 10 or 20 max on red/blk's etc.
what is this system betting on primarily? sleeping dozens? sectors etc?
how much did the bot cost?
i bet putting ure ideas into work for tiago wasnt easy?
Quote from: celiza427 on June 21, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Oh ok, thanks for the explanation. I understand betting more often makes it a more playable system, but wouldn't the 1st way (drawdown being 112 units) be a more successful bot system since it really doesn't get "tired" of waiting, so to speak? lol Yes, I would about keel over from boredom waiting 5,000 spins to place a bet - but a bot could care less.
Just thought I'd put that out there. I'm by no means knocking the 2nd version either. If that was .10c units that's still $420 profit with a $130 drawdown. If that stays consistent I'd take that any day!
You're absolutely right Celiza (about the first part...a bot not getting "tired" so to speak). The thing is, I'm sure I haven't found the Holy Grail or anything, so EVENTUALLY I'm sure to lose. The systems I've come up with as of late, seem to be very consistent and I feel quite comfortable laying my money down using them.
The thing is, I want to have a wide array of consistent systems to alternate between. I'd say...maybe...4 or 5. This way, each time I go to play, I go from system 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 then back to 1 again.
This way, no system is ever played for more than 20 to 30 thousand consecutive spins. If I can win maybe $50 to $100 in a day, I'll stop for the day, wait until the following day, and pick up where I left off but with a different system. This may or may not make any difference whatsoever (and I guarantee there are countless people here who will tell me it does not make a difference what I do) but I'd like to bet better safe than sorry.
The way I look at is, if a system holds up for over 200k spins, then loses spectacularly, then starts to win again for 100k spins or so, maybe I can avoid the loss system 1 would have taken by "playing through" that "losing session" with system #2 that plays an entirely different way.
Again, this may all be in vain, but I'm willing to take the risk. I like the game, and I understand it is just that...a game... (all of this extra stuff is to hopefully avoid the naysayers coming in and saying I'm throwing my money out the window. I figure if I make it clear I understand that is a risk and I'm willing to take it, they won't repeat to me what I've already said myself.)
Quote from: Fraudster on June 22, 2009, 03:05:14 AM
rjeaton my dear friend....
if you can find a bot that can win consistently on at RNG then... my friend, ure on the right track...
these things are hard to beat, very hard
I would urge you to keep ure sessions small and often, alternating between casinos...
PKR casino is one of the best for table limits .... flat betting is 0.10 min 150 max... I think its 10 or 20 max on red/blk's etc.
what is this system betting on primarily? sleeping dozens? sectors etc?
how much did the bot cost?
I bet putting ure ideas into work for tiago wasnt easy?
I wouldn't say I've beaten anything Fraudster, just made a couple of systems that seem to hold up pretty well is all. But thanks for the kind words! :)
I agree with you about small sessions and alternating casinos. Seems to make sense, as the house edge seems to stack up against you the longer you play. Well, that actually is what it does (for those of you who haven't read about this, and want something interesting to read, I'll explain the difference between "house edge" and "a casinos hold" at the bottom of this post)'
Thanks for the tip about PKR too.
The systems I devise almost always are inside numbers systems and almost never have anything to do with sleepers....almost, haha. Generally speaking, the systems frequently revolve around at least some form of the "Law of the Third" and the way that I choose to interpret at that given moment, lol.
As far as the cost of the bot, to respect Tiago, I won't give any specifics as I'm sure different systems cost different amounts to code (that's a guess, but I'm pretty sure it's a good one). My suggestion to you (if you're looking to have a bot coded) would be to just send him a PM or Email asking him a couple of questions. That's what I did (and I had a lot of them...haha). I'm sure you won't be dissapointed. And in all reality, the quality of his work, support after the bot was already coded, his speed, efficiency, and making sure everything was done right...made it worth every penny.
Oh, and as far as putting my ideas into writing for Tiago...You're absolutely right about it not being easy (although he understood surprisingly well...). In fact, the first thing I sent him was a word document that was over two pages long explaining all of the inputs you see on that picture I posted above.
That isn't even counting the extra changes I asked for afterwards. Still took him less than 5 days!
For those of you who would like to know what the "casinos hold" on your money is read below. If you don't want to know don't read anything below this sentence.
Here is what wikipedias explanation is of a casinos "hold" on your money. If their explanation doesn't make sense, it'll be worth your time to google it (if you like reading about this kind of stuff):
A player with a certain total amount of money may not win or lose all their money instantly, such that the total of all bets they make will often be greater than the total of the money they actually started with. The house edge applies to each bet made; not the total money, which means the player can end up losing significantly more than 5.26% of his starting money. For example it is likely that a player with $100 making $10 bets on red will be able to bet more than 10 times, because sometimes he wins. He may end up betting a total of 20 times on red. This means the expected value is 20×$10×5.26% = $10.52, over 10% of his money is now in the 'hold' despite the game having a 5.26% house advantage. A player who continually bets until they run out of money will give the house 100% hold.The "expected value" as mentioned above, is, in other words (at least how the casino looks at it) how much you're now worth to them. You see, lets say you've won all 20 of those bets, you now place bet number 21 and say to yourself (in theory) "alright, the house edge is only 5.26%. I'm not worried about losing as I've already made X amount of dollars". The "hold" a casino has on your money doesn't stop at just one bet. It reaches it's way all the way into any money you've placed on/taken off the table. Been winning for 5 years? The casino isn't worried...they've got an enormous "hold" on your money.
Does any of this scare me? No, I still play the game, and I do alright.
Quote from: rjeaton1 on June 22, 2009, 04:30:38 AM
The thing is, I want to have a wide array of consistent systems to alternate between. I'd say...maybe...4 or 5. This way, each time I go to play, I go from system 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 then back to 1 again.
This way, no system is ever played for more than 20 to 30 thousand consecutive spins. If I can win maybe $50 to $100 in a day, I'll stop for the day, wait until the following day, and pick up where I left off but with a different system. This may or may not make any difference whatsoever (and I guarantee there are countless people here who will tell me it does not make a difference what I do) but I'd like to bet better safe than sorry.
The way I look at is, if a system holds up for over 200k spins, then loses spectacularly, then starts to win again for 100k spins or so, maybe I can avoid the loss system 1 would have taken by "playing through" that "losing session" with system #2 that plays an entirely different way.
Completely understand. I too switch between different methods, both for the reason you're stating and also to keep it from getting too boring lol. I really hope this bot turns out great for you. :good: