If I clock 3800 spins at a casino, that should, in theory be enough to find a biased wheel.
Each number should come up 100 times on average, and if I one number comes up 120 times or more, then I would consider that a good bet.
Especially if the numbers on both sides of it or around it are coming up more than they should.
Anyone have any input to this idea?
I'm clocking one wheel right now that is within two miles from my house, so hopefully it ends up worth my time!
im not an expert on bias wheels, to be honest i dont see why you have to do that many spins.
i keep an eye on sectors (to be honest i need to do more tests) and i think with 4 sectors you can find a bias wheel in 100 spins.
if a sector hits nearly 50% of the time out of 100 spins then i would think its bias.
i could be totally wrong but i really think my system will spot a bias wheel sooner.
I could tell you my system if you like, its up to you.
or give me 100 numbers from this table and i will show you if i think its bias, though my system dosent do it on numbers but sections, so you are always betting 9 or 10 numbers
1) Defect spotting is an option before collecting data - this way a person does not waste her or hes time collecting data with out any indication there is a potential for bias.
2) It exist a way to collect data and measuring them using a specific method to determine if you find a true bias or a random fluctuation - with out defect spotting.
No matter 1 or 2 so will 800 to 1000 indicate if you are or not wasting your time with a particular wheel.
And if you get a indication then you have to determine how strong the bias is and if its due to random fluctuation or not.
1 wheel in 100 will cut it to be valid regarding the COR but again you also have to verify is not due to fluctuation.
Cheers
can you perhaps give some examples cookies ?
i think i know what you mean but im not sure, in one of my tests sectorA came up 50% out of 30 spins (might be higher out of 100 spins) but do you think its possible to tell a bias sector in 30 spins ?
or even in 100 spins ?
if a sector hits 50% of the time then it got to be bias in my opinoin but i could be wrong.
it dosent look so random with a percentage (though its still random).
any thoughts cookies
The absolut minimum would be around 4500 to 5000.
Quote from: I have cookies on February 17, 2011, 04:12:28 AM
The absolut minimum would be around 4500 to 5000.
couldnt you lower it down for sections and not numbers
Quote
couldn't you lower it down for sections and not numbers
Sector is better then to pin point out numbers all over the wheel - does numbers need a stronger STD become valid - then if you deal with Sectors - that is to make a long story short ...
I have three folders on my computer - two is of limits to the public arena - but i have one folder where i pin point out some public posts that can help you in a way to give you some kind of inspiration towards opportunities.
I will take a look and see if i can find some free no limits material for you.
Here is a hint to start with ...
You can go to Laurance Scotts open roulette forum and search for a particular post "weird dealer signature" i assume you try or want to find something similar towards that.
Then it comes towards other things how to measuring and get significant statistical values - i suggest you ask Laurance at hes forum to get some insight or use the search function.
One thing do if you would use a method that i mention above then its important to learn that you should use a frequency of attacks with local attractors - but for now i assume you are at a state where you want to learn basics first.
Good Luck
maybe
Quote from: darrynf on February 17, 2011, 04:36:44 PM
maybe
Many believe in easy money and bias and VB is not easy - it takes time and skills -
if you want to find a complete playing modell like a roulette system you should forget about bias and ballistics - because no one would post a public playing model or give away hard work - there is a reason why the AP keep it for them self and only pass over knowledge to does they know they can trust.
thats true mate, i thought you didnt have to spend that much time to find bias wheels, i think i will keep to my original system that has won 15 sessions from 16 sessions.
its not one im willing to depart not because i came up with but because it cant really be taught, its a little random anyway cheers for that info cookies but i dont have that time to spend to look for a bias wheel.
The best way to spot biased wheels is to check for standard deviations.
3SD on 3800 trials on a sector is a nice data. Better have 4sd.
Quote from: toby on February 23, 2011, 09:53:32 AM
The best way to spot biased wheels is to check for standard deviations.
3SD on 3800 trials on a sector is a nice data. Better have 4sd.
That is not true and no wounder so many end up in a trap ( pseudo STD ) is what you can call that as you don't have a clue if its due to random fluctuation or actually is a bias.
Other name for it is ( false positive ) and means that some one has to verify if a 3 or 4 STD is a ( actually STD ).
That is the math and probability you deal with regarding bias ( if some one not use defect spotting ).
It all depends. If you have visually spotted a bias and a 3 SD kicks out in that area, there are reason to believe that there could be something going on. But of course no one would just collect numbers if they hadn`t spotted a bias first.
Or would they.........?
Quote from: Kelly on February 23, 2011, 01:36:12 PM
It all depends. If you have visually spotted a bias and a 3 SD kicks out in that area, there are reason to believe that there could be something going on. But of course no one would just collect numbers if they hadn`t spotted a bias first.
Or would they.........?
Yes you can collect data with out a visual defect spotting and verify if there is a bias and not a false positive.
But I assume its xxxxx and xxxxxxxx to tell - not me.
Kelly, do you know how to vissually detect a biased wheel? A hard task to learn, I only can identify some defects when they are obvious(for me).
I can't help collecting numbers at first, I try not to work alone to ease the work.
Quote from: I have cookies on February 23, 2011, 01:15:23 PM
That is not true and no wounder so many end up in a trap ( pseudo STD ) is what you can call that as you don't have a clue if its due to random fluctuation or actually is a bias.
Other name for it is ( false positive ) and means that some one has to verify if a 3 or 4 STD is a ( actually STD ).
That is the math and probability you deal with regarding bias ( if some one not use defect spotting ).
Pick any sector of 4 to 10 numbers and try to reach 4SD on 3800 spins, really difficult to get, try 20 times if you can.
Quotereally difficult to get
Sure is.
Cheers
Depends on the bias. One of the ways is assessing wheel wobble. Stand where you see light reflection where the rotor and bowl meet (edge of pockets), and as the wobble passes, you'll see a flicker. There are many ways to assess a wheel for potential bias.
Quote from: Steve on February 24, 2011, 02:53:14 AM
Depends on the bias. One of the ways is assessing wheel wobble. Stand where you see light reflection where the rotor and bowl meet (edge of pockets), and as the wobble passes, you'll see a flicker. There are many ways to assess a wheel for potential bias.
Yes light reflections are our best friend ...
It is easy to talk about lights and wobbles, on the wheels is not the same as at home.
Quote from: toby on February 24, 2011, 01:37:34 PM
It is easy to talk about lights and wobbles, on the wheels is not the same as at home.
Well i could only wish i had a xxxx and the time to get so serious involved as you :)
Toby a small hint:
Look at the cone of the wheel and see if you can find a light reflex from one of the ceiling lamps. When the wheel rotates the light will be stationary if the wheel is perfect. If the reflexion on the cone is moving up and down or from side to side, there are some possible defects or unevenness on the cone. How you interpret the movements is a bit heavy and not for open boards.
What steve talks about is best done sitting looking across the wheel while focusing on the seam between the bowl and the rotor. Dont focus too much on light reflexes what you look for is the rotor going 1 - 1,5 mm up above the bowl and then down again. Focus on the high point and take a note of which numbers is located there. Most rotors will stay flush with the bowl at all times though. Those that doesnt has most likely a bend spindle, damaged by taking the rotor off. Its quite heavy and one should be very carefull when doing it, not all maintenance guy are that carefull. How to interpret the wobble high and lows is also considered closed topics.
I guess the author of the book deserves not to let it on in an open forum.
I won't be the one who talk about details.
BR
Wait, wait, wait. I had read that a truely gifted player can spot a bias in as little as two spins. 3,800?
Ken
who really has time to get 3800 spins? I probably seen that many in my life and I play alot
only way it is reasonable is if you have a team.
I've only got 500 spins so far, and there does appear to be a slight section bias, but I will gather more spins before I can say for sure.
Thanks for the good tips so far guys.
If you do proper research before collecting spins by observing for visible signs, your time spent collecting spins will be much more productive. There are many examples, but you can even hear some things. Like for example, with plastic pockets, eventually they bubble up ever so slightly and you can hear when the ball hits then, there's more of a popping sound. This makes the ball bounce less for certain regions. You dont need to constantly wait for the same pocket to be hit... once you know what the sound you're looking for is, you might hear it on one of the ball bounces every few spins. It needs to be an older wheel though.
My wheel is looking very biased at this point. I will be selling some things so I can start hitting the consistent numbers very soon.
If not a visual defect - then make sure that the COR is 1 in 100.
Next after at least 1500 or 2000 trails - verify it with a new sampel around 1500 trails.
If valid - then you can play and will have a very high probability that you have a true bias and not random fluctation.
If so I can send you how to play to get the most out of that wheel with staking plan that is very good - witch been given to me by Lurance Scott.
Good luck :-)
PS a sector is better then pin point out indiviuall numbers that overall need a higher STD to become valid.
Speaking of which I'll release free software for bias analysis. It will only be the basics though. Certain things are reserved only for my players. The free part is about the equivalent of laurence's software.
what softwares do you use to analyze the bias?