Testing G.U.T

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Thanks, winkel!

What a quick reply!

now I am confused 

Please don't be! I am the Kon-Fu-Sed one...

Of course I have misunderstood things.
Everything else would be un-natural.


So, for the first example:

The 9-number bet at spin 49 was made in the spirit of "Keep the bet until..."
... it changes (another amount of numbers in the bet column),
... will pass 36u bet in total or
... is gone

The bet (9u) is not changed but the combination 9-8 at spin 48 is 9-9 at spin 49.

The same situation arises already in session 3:


40  3 W    12 14 11  8  3  =0:  4  5 10 15 18 21 22 26 29 31 32 36                   12    -45 C
41 33 L    12 13 12  9  3  =0:  4  5 10 15 18 21 22 26 29 31 32 36                   12    -57 S
42 16 L    12 13 12  8  4  =0:  4  5 10 15 18 21 22 26 29 31 32 36                   12    -69 S



At spin 40 there is the 12-11 signal
At spin 41 it has changed into 12-12 but I keep it although there's the 13-12 signal.


* Is this (the change from "9-8" to "9-9" and from "12-11" to "12-12") considered a "change of the trigger" and therefore a NEW search for triggers should be done?

* If so: Are also changes in the other direction (from "9-9" to "9-8" or from "12-12" to "12-11") considered the same?
(I think it's possible for two "="-columns to do this)


I don't have time to look at your second example right now.
(There's also work to be done )
But I will look into it later and be back tomorrow.

Maybe you will have some more by then


For today,
KFS

PS. Those "=2" bettings of 1-2-3 numbers - do they really pay off?

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Sam and Spider,

Yes, if it's possible for me to code this monster I suspect that it can be an excellent tool for "training" to become an advanced G.U.T.ter

The workings are done - I have only to fix whatever winkel says (this is now the tricky part)
And then some interface matters (the script is RAW right now)
I hope to finish it in the weekend - but of course that depends of what winkel has to say.


But more on this later!
KFS

[winkel]

The 9-number bet at spin 49 was made in the spirit of "Keep the bet until..."

Hi KFS,

that is the thing I said even TCS is discussing it with himself.
It is not one of the iron rules.

The bet (9u) is not changed but the combination 9-8 at spin 48 is 9-9 at spin 49.

Some theory on this:
if we have a crossing near by, that means 0vs1 or 1vs2 or 2vs3
it can change like this:
0vs1
if difference is +1
13 12
changes to
13 11 died
12 13 won
13 12 sticked and second bet

if difference is 0
13 13
changes to
13 12 lost and second bet
12 14 won
13 13 sticked and second bet

if we have 1vs2 ("=a")vs("=a+1") with a>"0"
difference +1
13 12
changes to
14 12 lost and died
13 12 sticked and second bet
13 11 lost and died
difference 0
13 13
changes to
14 13 lost and second bet
13 12 lost and second bet
13 13 sticked and second bet
12 14 won and died

if we have a crossing "any"vs">any" (which means ">any" is a sum steady rising, not falling)
difference +1
14 13
changes to
13 14 won and died
14 13 sticked and second bet
14 14 lost and second bet
difference 0
13 13
changes to
12 14 won and died
13 13 sticked and second bet
14 13 lost and second bet

if we bet a crossing (TCS calls them secondary crossings) e.g. 0vs2 1vs3 0vs3 or any like these
it may work like the examples before, but if you are unlucky it will stick and you have to bet it dead

Now to make a rule out of it:
your example: 9-9 changes to 9-8
We bet a crossing but we bet the first group or the group "to fall"
this means we are betting the 9 numbers not the 8(9) or against the 8(9) numbers.
so we should only watch the first group, if it has a crossing with "any" group.
When the vs"group" changes we have a new crossing
When the vs"amount of numbers" vhanges (as above) we have the same bet(crossing) which may stick, win or die or is bet dead

does this make sense to you?

1. Sticking on the bet when a second crossing appears: Please select "higher Group or most left"
2. Betting two crossings at the same time: NO! not even their sum is <18
3. Betting early crossings of repeaters: not before spin 25

What I am still watching and thinking about: if there is a crossing 2vs3 would it be a good deal to bet all repeaters meaning group ">1"

I´m still checking the datas

br
winkel

[winkel]

Now to session 3

this is a good example for "gamblers intelligence"

lets have a look at "what is going on"

Code Select Expand

0 1 >1 2 >2
36 1 0 0 0
35 2 0 0 0
34 3 0 0 0
34 2 1 1 0
33 3 1 1 0
32 4 1 1 0
31 5 1 1 0
30 6 1 1 0 from here on the "1"s start waving
29 7 1 1 0
29 6 2 2 0
28 7 2 2 0
27 8 2 2 0
26 9 2 2 0
25 10 2 2 0
24 11 2 2 0
24 10 3 3 0
23 11 3 3 0
22 12 3 3 0
22 11 4 4 0
21 12 4 4 0
20 13 4 4 0
20 12 5 5 0
19 13 5 5 0
18 14 5 5 0
18 13 6 6 0
17 14 6 6 0
17 13 7 7 0
16 14 7 7 0
16 13 8 8 0
15 14 8 8 0 here starts our first bet and we lose and everything stopps "0" no more falling "1" not waving
15 14 8 7 1
15 14 8 6 2
15 13 9 7 2 one change but same as before
15 13 9 6 3
15 13 9 6 3
15 12 10 7 3
14 13 10 7 3 here our second bet 0 have slept for a while and 1 seems to start waving again so:
14 12 11 8 3 1 is waving (TCS would stick on "0" because it has slept for a while) and
13 13 11 8 3 0 is falling; after "1" has waved 13 12 13 12 13, wave could break, 0 is overdue so bet this trigger on 0
12 14 11 8 3 everything is back to normal
12 13 12 9 3 no doubt on this bet "1"
12 13 12 8 4
12 12 13 9 4 win in second everything back to normal
12 11 14 10 4 double crossing and "2" are waving with a new high, wouldn´t bet this
12 11 14 10 4 a >2
12 11 14 9 5 a 2
12 11 14 8 6 a 2
11 12 14 8 6
11 11 15 9 6 every pressure is gone from the 0s 1s and >1 bet this 0-bet
10 12 15 9 6


@all
okay you can say this is retro. but print it and try to follow my arguments and try to see if you had come to same opinions
I wouldn´t have bet 14-13 and waited for a clearing of "What is going on". The next spin told us.

@KFS
the iron rule: change to higher bet, would have had the better result. I´d prefer this rule.

br
winkel

[Novobetor]

Sam,

How did you draw the chart of your account balance in your testing GUT thread? What software did you use?

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Hello winkel,

It's very kind of you to put forward so much effort to make me understand.
I certainly appreciate it.

Really!


First, for the sake of clear communication:
Suppose this trigger: 12 - 11 or we can write "12 vs 11". We bet 12 numbers.
In the following I will call the 12 the [highlight]"bet column"[/highlight] and the 11 the [highlight]"vs-column"[/highlight].
OK?


Let's start with what I think I understand... You wrote in reply #338:

we bet 3times =0 12units and stop 45 46 47
we would rebet the 12 only:
- another trigger is bet
- the 12 would now trigger e.g. with >1

Yes, it's a mix-up. I "kill" the trigger completely when it has reached the >36u limit and search for a new.
If none is found, the result is the example you gave.

So you say that the trigger "rests" and is not to be bet again unless...
A - another trigger has been used during this "rest"
OR
B - the "vs-column" is another than the "resting"

Correct?

If so: In the "B" case...
1: Is another value in the SAME "vs-column" enough to regard it as "another" (supposing it's still a trigger)?

2: What if there are two columns of the same value - one of them is the resting "vs-column" and the other is ... another...?
Can we in this case say that the new "vs-column" is another than the resting?

OK - a FICTIOUS example:
We have the trigger "12 vs 11" and it has been resting for a few spins without interruption.
Now our current column-values are:
12 - 11 - 11
The first two columns are the same as when the trigger went to sleep but the third has become 11 just now.

So: Is this a valid "B"-case (the new "vs-column" IS another than the "resting" but has the same value)?


Regarding replies #337 and #341.

I have read your "difference table" and understand it. Well... this much:

* All "dead" triggers (lost or won) cause a search for a new trigger.
That's in place in the program.

* For all "sticked" triggers you write "and second bet".
That is what I do in the program when the trigger is exactly the same (same columns with the same values); I make a second bet but without looking for any alternative triggers.
But you write:

1. Sticking on the bet when a second crossing appears: Please select "higher Group or most left"

I don't do this in these cases but more on this matter/quote further down...

* All triggers where the "bet-column" change its value (down by 1) and STILL is a trigger, I regard as a completely new trigger and I look for alternatives.
This should be in the program...


That's the "bet-columns" - now for the changes in the "vs-columns"... You wrote:

When the vs"group" changes we have a new crossing

(I suppose - I hope! - that by [highlight]vs"group"[/highlight] you mean what I call "vs-column")

I read the quote as the "vs-column" is moving... Like in this FICTIOUS example:
12 - 12 - 11: We have trigger "12 - 12" where the RIGHT "12" is the "vs-column"

It becomes:
12 - 11 - 12: The "vs-column" has now "moved" from the second column to the third.
If this is what you mean by that quote, it's crystal clear: The trigger has CHANGED (to 12 - 11) and so we select a new one.
And we will find the new "12 - 12" and that's a completely new trigger (the >36u count = 0)

Correct?

The program should already work this way... 


You also wrote...

When the vs"amount of numbers" vhanges (as above) we have the same bet(crossing) which may stick, win or die or is bet dead

I read this quote as that the value of the "vs-column" changes (not the place) and it's STILL a trigger... Like in this FICTIOUS example:
13 - 13 - 9: We have trigger "13 - 13" where the RIGHT "13" is the "vs-column"

It becomes:
13 - 12 - 10: The "vs-column" has now changed the value from "13" to "12" and is still a trigger.
(And it "may stick, win or die or is bet dead".)

So this is what I THINK you mean:
In THIS case - when the value of the "vs-column" changes and the trigger is STILL a trigger - we keep it ONLY if there is NO OTHER trigger.
If there's another one we select THAT one - also if it's NOT the High-value or Leftmost one (compared to the "old" trigger only).
If there is no other, we keep this one only if the >36u limit is not reached.

Correct?

I am not sure but I think so because it was in this context you wrote:

1. Sticking on the bet when a second crossing appears: Please select "higher Group or most left"

OR: Is this quote a GENERAL rule - we shall ALWAYS look for alternative triggers? Remember I quoted this above?
(And IF it's a general rule: Is the old trigger included in or excluded from the selection?)


You also wrote:

2. Betting two crossings at the same time: NO! not even their sum is <18
3. Betting early crossings of repeaters: not before spin 25

#2 has never been an option for me.

#3... Do you mean that the "=2"- and ">2"-columns should not be bet before spin #25?


Edit:
You say at some places "change to the [highlight]lower / higher[/highlight] (bet or trigger)"
Is the relation of trigger-values something to consider EXCEPT when we compare to find the "High-value" trigger among several?
(AND of course EXCEPT in the contexts discussed above )



Thanks for your patience!
I hope I have understand this much this far.

Probably not
KFS

[winkel]

Hi KFS,

so far I think you got it like I tried to explain.

let me put it in one single example, which would cost us a fortune when we meet it:

13 13 10 10 0 Trigger 0vs1
13 12 11 10 0 it is the [highlight]same trigger[/highlight]
13 12 11 9 1 now this trigger is bet dead and we have a new trigger 1vs>1 also two triggers at the same time but the first is dead
13 11 12 10 1 now we have a new Trigger 0vs>1
13 11 12 9 2 [highlight]same trigger[/highlight]
13 10 13 10 2 The "0"-Trigger is dead after 2 bets and we use the "lower" Trigger to bet
13 9 14 11 2
13 8 15 12 2 now we have a new Trigger on "0"
13 7 16 13 2 [highlight]same trigger[/highlight]
13 6 17 14 2 The "0"-Trigger is dead after 2 bets
13 6 17 13 2 This is a new Trigger
13 6 17 12 3 [highlight]same trigger[/highlight]
13 6 17 11 4

I hope this makes all situations clear.
This is also an Example for what I call a "Bad Wave" and you should better jump than ride it.

br
winkel

[TwoCatSam]

All.....

This bad wave can last for what seems an eternity!!  I can almost promise you this:  If you have two triggers and bet one, the other will hit!

The Devil spins this wheel!

Sam

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Hi winkel,


The following are the "iron rules" as far as I understand them - this far...
I hope.

I cross my fingers...

Please give feedback.
(It may be impossible for me to POST from tomorrow until Monday but please give feedback as it's possible for me to READ and program)


TIA, and best regards,
KFS


Have a nice weekend, all!


========================================================

GENERAL:

* Never bet more than 17 numbers

* Selecting one of several triggers:
Add the "bet-column"- and "vs-column"-values. The highest sum gives the selection - the "High-value" trigger
When there are two "High-value" triggers, the two leftmost columns are selected - the "Leftmost" trigger

* A trigger that does not change cannot bet a total of more than 36u - this is called the ">36u limit"

* When a trigger is "NEW" the ">36u limit" counter is set to 0

* There is no bet-limit
* There is no loss-limit
* There is no win-limit


RULES:

Rule A
No betting at all before the 13th number is shown

Rule B
No betting on column "=2" before the 25th number is shown

Rule C
The session stops when the 50th number is shown

Rule D
Event: The trigger has reached the ">36u limit"
Result: The trigger is "fat"
Action: Look for the "best" trigger - EXCLUDE the current trigger UNTIL:
a) the "vs-column" can be ANOTHER column
OR
b) another trigger has been used

Rule E
Example 1: Trigger 12 vs 11 ===> 12 vs 10
Example 2: Trigger 9 vs 8 ===> 10 vs 8
Result: The trigger is "dead"
Action: Select a NEW "best" trigger if possible


Rule F
Before ANY of the Rules G - J (below) come into play:

Look for the "High-value" trigger

Result A: The current trigger IS NOT the "High-value" trigger
Action A: Use the "High-value" trigger as a NEW trigger

Result B: The current trigger IS EQAUL TO the "High-value" trigger
Action B: Select the "Leftmost" (may be the current) trigger

Result C1: The current trigger IS NOT the (selected) "Leftmost" trigger
Action C1: Use the "Leftmost" trigger as a NEW trigger

Result C2: The current trigger IS the (selected) "Leftmost" trigger
Action C2: Rules G - J are used:


Rule G
Example: Trigger 12 vs 11 ===> 12 vs 11
Result: The current trigger is exactly the same as before the spin
Action: Bet the SAME trigger if not "fat" (see Rule D)

Rule H
Example 1: Trigger 12 vs 11 ===> 11 vs 11
Example 2: Trigger 8 vs 8 ===> 9 vs 8
Result: The "bet-column" is changed
Action: Select the "best" trigger - INCLUDING the current - as a NEW trigger

Rule I
Example 1: Trigger 12 vs 11 (x) ===> 12 vs (x) 11
Example 1: Trigger 9 vs 8 (x) ===> 9 vs (x) 8
Result: The "vs-column" has "moved" (the same value is found in another column)
Action: Select the "best" trigger - INCLUDING the current - as a NEW trigger

Rule J
Example 1: Trigger 12 vs 11 ===> 12 vs 12
Example 2: Trigger 9 vs 9 ===> 9 vs 8
Result: The "vs-column" is changed (AND Rule I is not applicable)
Action: Select the "best" trigger - EXCLUDING the current - as a NEW trigger

If none is found we use this - the current - trigger.
BUT...
Exception:
Suppose these crossings:

Example 1:       Example 2:
(13 vs 11)       (13 vs 14)
12 vs 12         13 vs 13
12 vs 11 <===    13 vs 12 <===

As long as Rule I doesn't apply we look for the best trigger EXCLUDING the current one ("<===").
If none is found, the current one is used.

All this according to the rule.

Description of the exception:

Example 3:       Example 4:
(13 vs 11)
12 vs 12        (13 vs 14)
12 vs 12         13 vs 13
12 vs 12         13 vs 13
12 vs 11 <===    13 vs 12 <===

Before the current situation ("<===") Rule G applied to the triggers, at least once.
If the (right) "vs-column" hadn't changed in the current situation, Rule G would still be valid but the trigger would have gone "fat" because the total bet would be >36.

This is the exception:
In this situation we NEVER bet the current trigger.

If none else is found; WE DON'T BET.

[Proofreaders2000]

I think those are excellent Kon-Fu-Sed.  Especially not betting more than 12 numbers.

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

@Sam

The Devil spins this wheel!

That's just too correct


@Proof

What do you mean...

not betting more than 12 numbers

Those "12"triggers were only examples.

/KFS

[winkel]

Hi KFS,

well done! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

but could you please use a computer with artificial intelligence that is able to learn making nice decisions?

nice weekend
and
br
winkel

[winkel]

@All

I extended my 100 days test

@TCS you can see it recovers



As I tried to find out if the way to play like TCS does is working I started a new Test with some additional rules (just to confuse KFS  )
To get some results I play 8 games a day on 8 different tables.
Theses new rules produce an enormous up and down.
And I try to find out if any MM gives better results
- Stopp at spin 50
- Stopp either on <-40 or >+40
- Stopp either on >+40 or at spin 50

Results so far

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Hello all,

My Christmas gift is found in the Members Download - GUTCBA.
The complete manual is posted in the software section.

There is ONE EXCEPTION included in the rules that is new.

However, I think that exception is a "clinical rule".

If not: Please alert me, winkel.

The sum of winkel's September days using these rules is +58 (if I added correctly).

I have checked every bet in those September 4 - 30 sessions and I could not find any bet that wasn't done according to the rules.
Could I have missed one or several?
Maybe, but honestly I don't think so.

PLEASE alert me if you find any errors of any kind.
TIA.

Now I just hope that the rules are good enough to keep the promises winkel have made for the clinical way.
They should be, according to a reply only a few posts above.


Merry Christmas to you all!
KFS

[winkel]

Thx KFS,

I just had a short look to your manual.
Hell of a Job you´ve done! My respect!

Which is the exception you mentioned?

br
winkel

[winkel]

-