Funny ..i was just thinking about that!! How many times we read a system,to find out we were already playing or thinking about.Do most rouletters think alike??
While every "head" is a world, many heads do think alike when dealing with an specific subject... I bet it goes like a "gaussian" distribution. With the gross of people thinking alike and only a few deviating.
Just my 2 cents :)
Yes,i guess it's a stage of Birds of a feather flocking together .But i know many can relate to many systems on this forum.
A relative of mine who teaches physics at our local university once told me he devised a system based on probabilities. explained to me about how slim the probability of a loss for it, and also told me about his "feats" at our local casino with it.
As he explained it to me I realized it was the grand martingale...
:) And he thought he was onto a discovery.
I have yet to see my method or read about it in other forums. The closest I have seen is maybe someone else use it in a casino. But that was most likely coincidence.
My point is that there are still winning methods out there. Some that are undiscovered or unspoken.
So Mr Davey,you telling you have a secret arsenal and no one knows about it,never been posted here or anywhere.
My method turned out to be exactly the same as Davey's, which hasn't been posted or explored on any public forum that I know of.
So you two have talk and discuss about the method,and promise not to post?Or the time is not right?Or intend to sell?
they won't sell Seykid29 of that I am sure...... :good:
Selling a "winning system" ALWAYS rises eyebrows... I second that: not from Shorty nor Davey :good:
Quote from: Davey-Jones on November 04, 2009, 11:27:14 PM
I have yet to see my method or read about it in other forums. The closest I have seen is maybe someone else use it in a casino. But that was most likely coincidence.
My point is that there are still winning methods out there. Some that are undiscovered or unspoken.
D-J
Agree..........so guys start exploring.............Iboba 8)
Ok Iboba.But it amazes you at times,why others feed the crumbs,saving the big cake.
In my opinion releasing the strategy to the public would cause more losses than wins. You need an incredible understanding of the game and know all the ins and outs of the strategy.
Quote from: seykid29 on November 05, 2009, 01:49:06 PM
Ok Iboba.But it amazes you at times,why others feed the crumbs,saving the big cake.
SEYKID ,
Crumbs??????
I just posted a simple winning method,no calculating,very easy to
play......and what else--you don't expect me to post the whole cake,do you???
It's up to you guys to improve it...gave you the base................Iboba 8)
Don't be fooled by what people claim. There isn't a single winning method or system ANYWHERE in public. You can write off pretty much every single system posted here without even testing it. But then to do that you'd actually have to understand what you're up against.
It seems to me,you might have a sort of Holy Grail.
Iboba,
Atleast offer some Espresso with the cake . :yahoo:
Quote from: Nathan Detroit on November 05, 2009, 03:23:37 PM
Iboba,
Atleast offer some Espresso with the cake . :yahoo:
Nathan my friend,
I give them flour,sugar,water and let them mix the cake alone.
Now must go winning some..........................Iboba 8)
Seykid, nope I do not, maybe some day soon. But I know what WON'T work. Do not believe people who tell you they win consistently, when they fail to substantiate their claims without any ounce of how. Frankly, they are liars. You can't beat the stochastic process with any mechanical bet or rule-based system.
Quote from: Number Six on November 05, 2009, 04:09:14 PM
You can't beat the stochastic process with any mechanical bet or rule-based system....
This is probably correct. The process will likely never be determined.
So try to beat the emergent properties rather than the process itself.
Quote from: bombus on November 05, 2009, 06:58:31 PM
This is probably correct. The process with likely never be determined.
So try to beat the emergent properties rather than the process itself.
Or find other unknown properties,meaning if he didn't find it
that somebody else did........................Iboba 8)
Quote from: Number Six on November 05, 2009, 04:09:14 PM
Do not believe people who tell you they win consistently, when they fail to substantiate their claims without any ounce of how. Frankly, they are liars. You can't beat the stochastic process with any mechanical bet or rule-based system.
I might say instead you can't beat every spin with a mechanical bet. I also believe that a method that never loses is a fallacy. Which seems to be the direction most HG seekers go.
In the casino's mind, table games are a long term money generator. So you need a long term solution in my opinion.
As far as I can tell the very few legit winners are branded liars anyway, and the majority of people here pad their stats. Then those who want the winners methods are too lazy to go out there and find them for themselves. All anyone has to do to get a long term winning method/system/bet, whatever you want to call it, is read a couple books and do some research. That's it. Then the rest of your time is spent perfecting the strategy. But you'd still be amazed at how lazy people are. They want the free handout. I have shared my method(s) with a few people who claimed they wanted to learn. I have yet to hear one of them come back and say "Thanks! That's a great method! I won X dollars with it!" Does this mean the method is very lucky for me? And unlucky for everyone else? Nope. It means people are lazy, and don't want to do the work it takes in order to win. It also means people don't like getting rich slow. They want a way to win a million overnight. Keep the search alive you dreamers...
Explain to me why anyone would want to share their personal HG? There is not much gain in it. In my early days when I first came to this forum I said that if I ever found a winning method that was proven, I would post it and share it with all to read. Nothing would satisfy me more than draining every casino. Of course, I know now that this was a very naive view. First of all, if I share it, no one would take it seriously just on the basis that I shared it. Second, I would bring a huge amount of heat to my own play with every donkey that goes in there and plays the exact same way I am only much more recklessly. I totally understand why people keep their methods to themselves. It's not greed. It may not even be for privacy. I know for me... It's to save myself a headache. People I don't know begging me at all hours for help with question that they could answer if they just thought for 10 minutes in quiet. As well as people I don't know calling me a liar, idiot and a fake. Where's my motivation?
You're right.
Congratulations on your long-term winner Mr. Davey.
Motivation is that through the review by colleagues, improvements to the system by many people will likewise serve for feedback to see your own single system from angles that you had not seen.
Same story as always: The mathematical simulations then demonstrate it to be the loser to the brute force method and the casino owners do not pay attention, so the gain is at a personal level. If it requires patience and persistence, only a small number of people will play it, this can be sure. The hordes of people playing a system is not the reality, only the few who really will appreciate and they provide the tweak in the forum or PM to you.
Many eyes can see what a single pair can not, or it would take a lifetime to discern.
Greetings.
WannaWin
Davey, of course, you're right about people wanting things handed to them.
In my post I wasn't talking about people who use physics-based methods. There is no system or bet, fashioned in a mechanical way (such as following the last decision, following the opposite to last decision, following the decision that appeared three days and 12 hours ago) or reliant on some sort of rigid criteria, that can defeat randomness. It is impossible; in the long run they all lose. People who have studied the processes of the game know this. I know it, that is why I find half the things people claim on public forums to be absurd. People who say they have mechanical method, or continually drop little hints that they have such a method are telling porkies for some other gain. I don't care if they say "It's just you who hasn't found it". No one will find something that doesn't exist. It's becoming too much of a recurring trend in this forum. Within the space of a few months suddenly everyone has beaten the game. It's laughable. I'm not accusing you yourself of anything, I know you're a physics player, and I accept physics as a valid way to win.
So both of you have HG? How about a challenge in the challenging zone? Like the way RAY did.
I don't not have any sort of holy grail. All I know is what cannot beat randomness and what can beat it.
That's great news my frnd #6.
I have nothing to say about physics, because I won couple of times, with VB and DS.
Some of your posts in other threads were about stochastic principles in RNG play. Can you please explain that a bit? Or shall we start a new thread on stochastic principles? I really wanted to learn from you.
Thanks
HS
I hear ya Number Six. I'm pretty sure we are both on the same page when it comes to telling the difference between a real winner, and someone who is just looking for an ego boost.
As for the challenge, I will respectfully decline. I doubt anyone here is capable of providing a controlled environment for a decent challenge, aswell as my requirements for bet placing, on this board. No offence intended. In person, it's a different story.
But again to my previous point? Why should I go OUT of my way to prove to you something that I already know to be true?
It's based on Visual Ballistics, so even if you guys do post it here, very few will actually put the effort into mastering it.
If it's some mechanical system that wins consistently (does not exist) then that would be another story. It would be all over the net in no time, both, sold/re-sold and distributed for free.
If it's not a mechanical system but it's something that can still be taught (??) and conquers the stochastic process, then it would also be spread, a bit slower though. Someone would sooner or later publish a book about it and get himself famous.
In both of these two latter cases it would only be natural that the casinos would change the rules to avoid being exposed as an open gold mine.
Again you have a point.
Quote from: Davey-Jones on November 05, 2009, 11:16:07 PM
I might say instead you can't beat every spin with a mechanical bet. I also believe that a method that never loses is a fallacy. Which seems to be the direction most HG seekers go.
In the casino's mind, table games are a long term money generator. So you need a long term solution in my opinion.
As far as I can tell the very few legit winners are branded liars anyway, and the majority of people here pad their stats. Then those who want the winners methods are too lazy to go out there and find them for themselves. All anyone has to do to get a long term winning method/system/bet, whatever you want to call it, is read a couple books and do some research. That's it. Then the rest of your time is spent perfecting the strategy. But you'd still be amazed at how lazy people are. They want the free handout. I have shared my method(s) with a few people who claimed they wanted to learn. I have yet to hear one of them come back and say "Thanks! That's a great method! I won X dollars with it!" Does this mean the method is very lucky for me? And unlucky for everyone else? Nope. It means people are lazy, and don't want to do the work it takes in order to win. It also means people don't like getting rich slow. They want a way to win a million overnight. Keep the search alive you dreamers...
Explain to me why anyone would want to share their personal HG? There is not much gain in it. In my early days when I first came to this forum I said that if I ever found a winning method that was proven, I would post it and share it with all to read. Nothing would satisfy me more than draining every casino. Of course, I know now that this was a very naive view. First of all, if I share it, no one would take it seriously just on the basis that I shared it. Second, I would bring a huge amount of heat to my own play with every donkey that goes in there and plays the exact same way I am only much more recklessly. I totally understand why people keep their methods to themselves. It's not greed. It may not even be for privacy. I know for me... It's to save myself a headache. People I don't know begging me at all hours for help with question that they could answer if they just thought for 10 minutes in quiet. As well as people I don't know calling me a liar, idiot and a fake. Where's my motivation?
Thanks DJ,
I really meant to say something similar on this subject,
but you have said instead.Agree with every word you have stated.
Even if I would show my every day account on DB,from last 18 days since
am playing there,and that each day have won 15 euros/that's my aim/with
100 euros deposited......they would tell me it is fabricated.
So who cares,really....................................Iboba 8) 8)
Davey, in my book you would be exempt from having to prove anything. Most of us know the principles your method is based on are real. All you would be demonstrating is how good you are at executing them. You are beating the WHEEL, that is doable with methods like *DS* and VB. People who claim to win with a conventional system or bet are claiming to beat the PROCESS, that is not so easy. When someone claims that, I feel they should at least make some sort of effort to summarise in theory why their system works. Otherwise they're time wasters. And honestly, if you had a HG system, would you really go round public forums dropping hints about it? That is what I don't get.
hideseek, I don't actually play RNGs much, not for serious money anyway. I use one RNG casino for practise, that's about it. Mainly I stick to real wheels, and as there are around 10 casinos within 30 minutes of my house, there is no shortage! Though I don't see why RNGs aren't beatable if you can find a way of minimising the impact of fluctuation. Like everyone I have dabbled in the systems and progressions and all the rest of it, but I know they simply will not work in the long run.
Reckoning that im really a newbie to roulette in a way of speaking,it seems many has been there done that in many aspects,cant deny that many may be actually enjoying big constant wins.
seykid.
There have to be winners, because otherwise, the casino would not experience fluctuations.
We all know that the larger the sample the greater the fluctuation expected even with the benefit of the house edge in your favor.
Someone has to take advantage of the negative fluctuations of the house = the winners.
Quote from: Number Six on November 06, 2009, 08:26:28 AM
People who claim to win with a conventional system or bet are claiming to beat the PROCESS, that is not so easy. When someone claims that, I feel they should at least make some sort of effort to summarise in theory why their system works. Otherwise they're time wasters.
In my opinion for anything to work, make money, or win whether it be in the casino's, stocks, or any form of investing... There MUST be a logical/rational reason behind why it works. "It just does" is not an acceptable answer to me, yet it is the most common one out there. Sometimes it can work and you may not understand why it works, that's different. But in a case like that I would think you would be more willing to share to find out exactly why it works. I never understood why all these supposed "Winners" cower whenever any form of rational critique enters the equation. Being critical to these HG's is very important, and in most cases a money saver for alot of people. There is nothing wrong with asking "Why does it work". You can still answer that while being vague about your method.
ie: Physics, math, situational conditions allow it to.
I do agree that if you can't put up, then shut up... Anything else is a waste of everyone's time.
Quote from: Davey-Jones on November 06, 2009, 09:01:45 PM
Sometimes it can work and you may not understand why it works, that's different. But in a case like that I would think you would be more willing to share to find out exactly why it works.
Eg, a magic trick. Perhaps those guys, with their thusly-developed way of thinking, have found ways to apply it to casino-gaming? I remember the "Amazing Kreskin" being barred from bj in Vegas, because of his shear stage-presence.
Anyway, getting back to the original topic... I believe being consistently in sync with events (as those are occurring in general) comes when one can state his scientific understandings in philosophical terms, when the two aren't in conflict.
Well, I know, but it's a slow evening here.