Have you noticed that on average, a dozen will hit back to back every 3 or 4 spins. It is rare for 6 or 7 spins to go by without a dozen repeating on consecutive spins. So, this system is tracking dozens for no dozen to repeat on consecutive spins for at least 4 spins, 5 is better but you may have to wait awhile, then start betting on the last dozen to hit again, back to back. Here is the progression:
3 units on last dozen to repeat, 1 unit on zero....if that misses, then,
5 units on next dozen to repeat, 1 unit on zero ...then,
8 units on next dozen to repeat, 1 unit on zero...then,
13 units on dozen, 1 unit on zero,..then
20 units on dozen, 2 units on zero.. if that misses, then
32 units on last dozen, 3 units on zero.
When you get a hit, including a zero, stop and track again for 4 spins without a dozen repeating on consecutive spins. Play for about 5 hits per session, then stop. You will only lose if a dozen does not repeat on consecutive spins for more than 10 spins, very rare !
good luck !
Have anyone test n check out this system??? :scratch_ones_head:
This question was asked recently. Chops will regularly last 10+ spins. The longest anyone reported was more than 20. It's no different from betting one random dozen - meaning the hit rate is prone to the same heavy fluctuation, and with the suggested progression you will be broke in 10 minutes.
The benefit is that you avoid a sleeping dozen. I wouldn't use such an aggressive progression.
Ron.
why not just betting the dozen from spin 1 with no waiting for a dozen to not repeat, the win rate is just the same,so bet from the last spun dozen with progression 1 2 3 4 6 9. On a good run you can win a good amount this way. On a bad run - well that's another story ;D >:D When a dozen sticks which it does quite often you make a good few wins. Not a fantastic system i know but you can make enough to fill a tank of petrol in your car even if playing only 5 pound chips. :)
Why not wait 4 spins without dozen / column repetition and bet the cps10 12 step progression? I saw once live 16 spins chops only but it doesn't happen often. The statistic about dozens / columns:
The single D/C occurs double so often than the sum of all series.
One single D/C is to expect in every 2,27 spins.
Double (tween) D/C is to expect every 6,8 spins (the chop comes 3 time so often than double serie that means:
2,27 x 3 = 6,81 spins.
In general, betting progression after 5 chops should be successful in many cases. With cps10 12 step progression it would be harvest from Christmas to Christmas.
Cheers Hermes
where do i find this cps progression hermes. I will try it out.
Here you go: Wiztek progression for single D/C: 1-1-2-3-4-6-8,5-13-20-30-45-68-104 (that's $90 bankroll with the 0.25 minimum).
cps10: 5-6-9-13-20-30-45-70-100-150-225-350 ( if you are rich & risk taker, e.g. Simon)
1-1-2-4-5-8-12-18-26-40-60-90 ($267 bankroll if you are bagging on the street). Practically only Wiztek has 12 step progression, the other are for 11 spins. You need to have always money for one more spin to win.
Cheers Hermes
Good comments guys !
but , because dozens repeat so frequently I like to keep the progression shorter and more profitable, and trigger it after 4 spins without a repeat, PLUS I am covering the zero which can be a nice bonus if hit.
with:
3 units on last dozen to repeat, 1 unit on zero....if that misses, then,
5 units on next dozen to repeat, 1 unit on zero ...then,
8 units on next dozen to repeat, 1 unit on zero...then,
13 units on dozen, 1 unit on zero,..then
20 units on dozen, 2 units on zero.. if that misses, then
32 units on last dozen, 3 units on zero.
this gives me 5 or 6 units per hit, but the zero gives profit of 32-26-17-3-17-18.
It is nice to play without fear of the zero hitting.
cheers !... :ok:
I tried to rip some money on SmartLiveCasino and it didn't allowed me to play live games! But the RNGs roulette, baccarat and BJ were OK? I emailed to the casino and they told me to lower security on my computer (like Firefox, Internet Explorer). That's a thought of conspiracy. What they gain with my low computer security? A virus, cookies or implant a software on my PC? Hellish, isn't it?
Hermes
Yikes !! :diablo:
I have never heard that before, makes me very suspicious about all online casinos.
I have pretty well quit playing roulette at online casinos, but now I will quit.
Thanks hermes !
:nono:
It is the same in Forex trading. The brokers are shamelessly dishonest. Greed dictates the pace. All enterprises are going only for your money. Those are modern monsters. Never ever underestimate them! Devil never sleep just waiting for your mistakes :diablo:!
Hermes
Well, I'm having better profits with the Forex market than casino gambling, but maybe I'm just lucky so far. Again, money management is the key to earning slow but steady income.
cheers ! .. ;)
Hello everyone!
This is my first post, though I have been following the forum for a while.
Have got some feedback on this system. After checking 300 spins which I recorded from the online live dealer casino I play at I noticed that the progression did not go any further than the 9th step. So I decided to give it a go. I played 2 sessions(started betting after the 5th chop) and I won 40 units(zero was the first hit :thumbsup:) But the 3rd session was a disaster. The dealer made a repeat on the dozen on 16th step and it destroyed my bankroll :'(
These are the numbers:9 3 35 17 32 4 20 35 10 28 6 16 8 32 3 13 33 35(from right to left)
You never know when it will happen.
:sarcastic: yup ! that's roulette for you .... :diablo:
16 chops from the hell! Does not happens every day. It is suspicious enough if there was not a magnetic ball in play??? What online casino did you play?
Do you see the whole dealer all the time or sometimes only hands after cut the picture? All the US science fiction movies are done mostly on computers and you will not recognize the difference! What about science fiction online casinos? Actually, the casinos even don't exist! Only the software transmitted from some corner on the earth. Illusion casinos!
That's why I like to step firm on the floor in land casinos but the magnetic ball could be there in play also. No guarantee.
Hermes
What about to use the artificial dozens from the Balance Method by Proofreader2000? If they will make a 16 chops in row?
Hermes
Hello Hermes! The casino I played at was Gala Coral Live Casino. I saw the whole dealer all the time, just I think, I was very unlucky. It is really rare to have these dozens to chop so many times. Could you give the summary of this Balanced method please.
I played this system quite a lot before , I have seen it go 17 times without a repeat a few times. I gave up because it's only a short term winner, sit playing for an hour or 2 and the dozen will not repeat for 17 or more spins.
Talking about Gala casino - On the live wheels I strongly advise players to avoid. The small stakes casino magic especially is robbing many players. I am 100% sure they are cheating especially on the small stakes casino magic. What happens is when you start to play progression on bets your bet will be blocked with a message that says bets not accepted!. This happens more times than not on what would have been winning bets too.
What they say to you when you complain is they say re-fresh your page. Re freshing the page does nothing to
cure the problem and you will lose your money. I am still amazed gala still getting away with this well known scam now, Gala need reporting for it. Many players see the same problem so please don't anyone say I am making this up it's 100% true.
Quote from: hermes
16 chops from the hell! Does not happens every day.
You're joking, right? It happens regularly. I simulated only 750 casino actuals and got 23 once and 19 about five or six times. Plenty of 14,15,16. It is not rare to see a period of many chops. It's well within the parameters of the game. A run could go on chopping for 500 spins. There is nothing exploitable here. It doesn't work and no matter how you change it, it never will.
Quote from: Number Six on December 20, 2009, 07:24:45 PM
You're joking, right? It happens regularly. I simulated only 750 casino actuals and got 23 once and 19 about five or six times. Plenty of 14,15,16. It is not rare to see a period of many chops. It's well within the parameters of the game. A run could go on chopping for 500 spins. There is nothing exploitable here. It doesn't work and no matter how you change it, it never will.
No.6, you are missing the whole point of this system ! :scratch_ones_head: ::)
We are only playing for about 5 hits, that's 25 units profit, then quit !
We are not spinning the wheel all day waiting for your very rare chops .. :nono:
We are playing less than 15 minutes, about 60-70 spins max.
Believe me, there will be lots of repeats of dozens in that time, but yes, once in a blue moon it could
happen that we go over 10 spins without a repeat, bad luck, but rare over only 70 spins. I will get
my 25 units profit many, many times before the blue moon comes out.
So, I disagree with you that there is nothing exploitable here ... :whistle:
OK, then how about this? You follow both dozens and columns ( I'm assuming it works equally for both, we probably just notice dozens more naturally ) then wait 6 chops. It may take longer, hours even, but all one needs to do is increase the unit bet value to make it worth waiting a few hours for a betting opportunity. Meanwhile low unit bets with any other system to fight off boredom.
Jeromin
Sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone by testing this and telling the truth about the results and proving that, within 1000 decisions, you will end up losing more progressions than you win and will be broke. I recant everything. It's the holy grail.
Well that's a shame Number Six, because this forum needs more hard testing, not less.
I agree with you number six. I used to play martingale when I started playing roulette in september this year(I have never read about it in the forums, I thought I have invented something perfect ;D). I started with 100 BR and in two weeks time I had 9500 pounds in my account(very stupid of me I did not withdraw it in in time). But one beautiful morning in the end of september I lost it all. I was very lucky as all novices are I assume, to reach this sum. But soon or late it should have happened. I think the same would be with this system. 300 live spins test and when I decided to try it it gave me 16 chops in a row. Thats bad luck. But you can win with it if you play for 3 wins for a example, but any time you can experience 2 losses in a row which will wipe your profits out.
Ok, try the Balance Method of Proofreader (Euro Roulette).
1st dozen : 2-4-6-13-15-17-19-21-25-27-32-34
2nd dozen: 1-5-8-10-11-16-20-23-24-30-33-36
3rd dozen: 3-7-9-12-14-18-22-26-28-29-31-35
Test how many chops you get with this formation? 16 chops don't come all the time.
Hermes
Thanks for your reply Hermes, but I dont quite understand it. Do you mean to apply a different progression for each dozen?
Quote from: Jeromin on December 23, 2009, 05:46:43 PM
OK, then how about this? You follow both dozens and columns ( I'm assuming it works equally for both, we probably just notice dozens more naturally ) then wait 6 chops. It may take longer, hours even, but all one needs to do is increase the unit bet value to make it worth waiting a few hours for a betting opportunity. Meanwhile low unit bets with any other system to fight off boredom.
Jeromin
You do not have to wait for 6 chops, 3 or 4 only, then use progression as stated above. You will miss too many opportunities if you wait for 6 non-repeats, actually I've used only 2 and been successful. Get 5 hits and quit.
This system does not include using columns, only repeating dozens. I'm not familiar if columns react to repeating as often as dozens ? I never bet on columns.
With the 12 step Wiztek progression you can bet every spin. When come 13 chops you lost that's all.
Jeromin you don't understand the concept. Bet always the last coming dozen expecting double, is that easy. E.g. last number came 35 it is 3rd dozen than bet next spin 3rd dozen, that's simple.
Even dozens and columns looks the same they are not. I burned my fingers on columns a lot! Columns are like women, unpredictable! System which works on dozens will not work the same way on columns.
I wish everybody on forum Merry Christmas and Healthy, Successful and Productive New Year 2010.
Cheers Hermes
Oh, I understand the concept, alright. I spent some time going over a somewhat similar system, proposed by Jimenez last summer, based on following last dozen and last column jointly. I went over a couple of thousand spins and it was tricky, but the sharp drop seemed to be at the 4 to 5 point: that is, after a fourth chop of both column and dozen, the likelihood of a fifth double chop decreased sharply, creating a good opportunity ( so, in a thousand spins, there'd be fifteen 3xDD ( Different Column Different Dozen =DD) events, twelve 4xDD events and only five 5xDD events, meaning twelve instances of 4 consecutive column and dozen chops but only about five of 5. It was interesting theoretically, but waiting literally hours for a single betting opportunity was too much for me.
I like hammy's method better because it involves only one bet ( dozen ). I don't see how columns would be in any way different, other than being harder to notice. It's just easier, more natural, to see that say number 19 is in the second dozen than to notice it's in the first column, for example. A 13 step progression from scratch seems too short, I'd rather wait for 4, 5 or 6 chops. The way I see it there are only two ways to go: either a super long progression ( eg: 13 to 16 steps, maybe more, after waiting for 5/6 chops ) that guarantees a win in anything shorter than several thousand spins, or no progression at all, say wait 3 chops, bet once, stop. I don't see the point in long progressions that do not guarantee wins long term but are very costly when they fail, Number Six's point. As for losing winning opportunities, it's a matter of avoiding the danger of a lost long progression. If you look at a recent set of actuals from Dublin Bet, in the actuals section, the very first session has 11 chops in a total of less than 50 spins. So the "short term" safety is fictitious. That's the danger of progressions: wins are in effect nothing but long term very high interest loans by the casino.
If/when I find the time, I'll go over a few thousand spins, testing, 3-stop, 3, 4-stop, 4, stop bets, etc. I have the suspicion there might be an opportunity there, but it will be razor thin and not "short term", which seems to mean "playing safely for 30 minutes", but which actually means "I haven't really tested this enough to lose the progression, so the 30 minutes that will wipe out my past profits are still to come".
This is all rhetoric, of course. Only testing will tell.
Jeromin
I tweaked the Hammy's idea and it looks very promising. With a little luck we can stretch the progression up to 15 or more spins. When I have a little more time (Christmas eats the time) I will explain it in this thread. I recommend to play it only on live wheels but I beat with that tweak even RNGs. Very solid idea.
Cheers Hermes
Quote from: hermes on December 28, 2009, 01:13:02 AM
I tweaked the Hammy's idea and it looks very promising. With a little luck we can stretch the progression up to 15 or more spins. When I have a little more time (Christmas eats the time) I will explain it in this thread. I recommend to play it only on live wheels but I beat with that tweak even RNGs. Very solid idea.
Cheers Hermes
Waitng for your NEW YEARs gift...........Hermes ;D
Quote from: Jeromin
Only testing will tell.
It has been tested and it failed. There is nothing anyone can do to make it work. Progressions systems do not win...even when you're winning you're not actually winning, you're just building up a cushion to soften the blow of the inevitable losing streak.
Quote from: Number Six on December 28, 2009, 10:51:33 AM
It has been tested and it failed. There is nothing anyone can do to make it work. Progressions systems do not win...even when you're winning you're not actually winning, you're just building up a cushion to soften the blow of the inevitable losing streak.
Number Six,
What you are saying can be said for any system or in fact for the game of roulette generally.
Unless you are concealing the holy grail of roulette, this game cannot be beaten consistantly with any system ?
Who knows when the bad luck or losing streak will come, and how long it will last, and what damage it will bring ??
Do you hold any hope at all for roulette ? Is there anything "anyone can do to make it work" ?
Number Six, please give yourself a New Year resolution that you will be more positive and constructive. I guarantee you everything will change in your doomy life.
Progressions with bankroll stoploss are very intelligent decision but only if supported by solid strategy. If you bring to the casino only $200 and no master card you can lose only $200, that easy math! I didn't say it is a holy grail, did I? With flat betting our valets get also flat. Gambling is mental game. Winning is believing (in yourself).
Cheers anyway Hermes
Roulette is a game involving a random process. Its limits, within the set parameters, are probable only, meaning that no matter what the worst you think you'll see, it's not even that half of it. With any mechanical trigger bet, such as following the last decision, betting the opposite of the last, waiting for a sequence of 20 numbers without a repeat then betting them etc etc, it is no different from simply betting randomly, since roulette systems are mathematically flawed and have no logic...they are an illusion, they don't change anything, they don't put anything in the player's favour and there is always a negative expectancy on every bet. What all this means is that, guranteed, you will eventually go broke. It's an unavoidable fate. It might happen very quickly, it might not happen for a while. But ultimately it will happen...yes, you never know when a losing streak will occur but when it does occur, and you're betting progressively, it will wipe out your winnings and probably your initial capital as well. Some losing streaks you can't deal with, ie you will encouter several bad losses on the trot. This is the worst that can happen, and if you can win two or even ten sessions consecutively, you can also lose ten sessions consecutively. If you play a system, you use money you don't care about losing. Systems are fun and easy to play, but none of them work. It doesn't matter about long and short term. All systems will fail, when is irrelevant because economically they are far to risky to invest real time and effort in.
In roulette the random flow has many states, for example there are periods of stable continuity or periods of rapid change. Systems tend to be designed for one specific state only, and since that state will never remain active for ever, the system fails. The bet selection relies on blind luck because, technically, the random flow will never favour it enough, hence you lose at house rate edge and you go broke.
Winning has nothing to do with believing in yourself. It's not a mental game at all - you either have a winning bet or you don't, this can be proved or disproved easily. There is no use in pretending that thinking positive will guide you to riches. No progression or money management scheme can cement together a system that is fundamentally flawed.
Number six,
Fair enough ! , I agree with most of what you say.
I take it that you do not play roulette ?
Quote from: hammy on December 29, 2009, 10:50:18 AM
Number Six,
I take it that you do not play roulette ?
He once asked me to lend him some money to play, but I said sorry I already lost it all... So, no he don't play.
:sarcastic: ;D :sarcastic:
Yes, I just don't use systems with a "mechanical betting procedure"
I managed to scrounge a measly BR by diving down the sides of the sofa.
Quote from: Number Six link=topic=13568. msg90696#msg90696 date=1262061732
Roulette is a game involving a random process. Its limits, within the set parameters, are probable only, meaning that no matter what the worst you think you'll see, it's not even that half of it. With any mechanical trigger bet, such as following the last decision, betting the opposite of the last, waiting for a sequence of 20 numbers without a repeat then betting them etc etc, it is no different from simply betting randomly, since roulette systems are mathematically flawed and have no logic. . . they are an illusion, they don't change anything, they don't put anything in the player's favour and there is always a negative expectancy on every bet. What all this means is that, guranteed, you will eventually go broke. It's an unavoidable fate. It might happen very quickly, it might not happen for a while. But ultimately it will happen. . . yes, you never know when a losing streak will occur but when it does occur, and you're betting progressively, it will wipe out your winnings and probably your initial capital as well. Some losing streaks you can't deal with, ie you will encouter several bad losses on the trot. This is the worst that can happen, and if you can win two or even ten sessions consecutively, you can also lose ten sessions consecutively. If you play a system, you use money you don't care about losing. Systems are fun and easy to play, but none of them work. It doesn't matter about long and short term. All systems will fail, when is irrelevant because economically they are far to risky to invest real time and effort in.
In roulette the random flow has many states, for example there are periods of stable continuity or periods of rapid change. Systems tend to be designed for one specific state only, and since that state will never remain active for ever, the system fails. The bet selection relies on blind luck because, technically, the random flow will never favour it enough, hence you lose at house rate edge and you go broke.
Winning has nothing to do with believing in yourself. It's not a mental game at all - you either have a winning bet or you don't, this can be proved or disproved easily. There is no use in pretending that thinking positive will guide you to riches. No progression or money management scheme can cement together a system that is fundamentally flawed.
Another excellent post from Number Six.
99. 999999 % correct.
The point is you cannot bet everything, but you can bet something.
The secret is not letting what you can't bet interfere with what you can bet.
Oops, I've said too much. /. \
Gambling is controlled random game, especially ball games. The mechanical games like BJ and Baccarat are not random because there is a known 8 decks of cards, it is not endless (not electronic shuffling!)
The more we open our mind to possibilities the more we will get. That's called winning is believing in yourself. When we close the door to all possibilities we get tunnel vision, and many already have! For me the sun shine every day, even during rain.
Open a Pessimistic Club and be a director. :angry2:
Hermes
OK, here it is. The dozens and columns are half way antagonists and half way protagonists what we can use to smoother our progression at extreme times.
The progression is from Wiztek: 1-1-2-3-4-6-8-13-20-30-45-68-104 (12 step - 305 units).
If you reach plus or zero result from bet you don't rise the progression, only if there is a loss of bet. Short example:
dozen column
# 1-2-3 I-II-III is get +/- total
21 O O - - - -
30 1 O 1 2 3 +1 +1
2 O 1 O 1 2 0 - 2 - 1
16 2 O O 2 4 6 +2 +1
4 O 1 1 2 3 +1 +2
31 1 O 1 2 3 +1 +3
8 O 1 1 O 2 0 -2 +1
25 2 O 2 4 6 +2 +3
34 2 1 3 9 +6 +9
11 O 1 1 O 2 0 -2 +7
16 1 O O 1 2 0 -2 +5
28 2 O 2 4 6 +2 +7
17 O 3 1 O 4 0 -4 +3
23 4 1 5 15 +10 +13
5 O 1 1 2 3 +1 +14
32 1 O 1 2 3 +1 +15
26 1 1 2 4 +2 +17
24 O 1 1 O 2 0 -2 +15
1 O 2 O 2 4 0 -4 +11
17 3 O 3 O 6 0 -6 +7
35 4 O 4 8 12 +4 +11
29 4 1 5 12 +7 +18
That's just short idea about the progression. We rise the progression only if bet lost. With those delays in rising the progression we can overstand even 15 chops. It is difficult to chart it here. There will be mishaps in lines. O means what D/C hits, the numbers are where we bet and win if hit.
Happy New Year 2010 to all.
Hermes
Quote from: hermes link=topic=13568. msg90758#msg90758 date=1262132139
Gambling is controlled random game, especially ball games. The mechanical games like BJ and Baccarat are not random because there is a known 8 decks of cards, it is not endless
New Year, same old pants progression.
Luckily, you wont LOSE any more money in 2009.
The outlook for your 'system' in 2010 however is GUARANTEED pessimistic.
Sorry to burst your bubble. . .
I played yesterday for a while playing.
Last column
Last dozen
On and on but I used a very long progression it worked pretty well.
5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70
I saw losses 7 times in row but I knew they where coming when you play my way
LWC
LWD
LWC
LWD
You can expect to play virtual for half the time.
Just a thought.
Stuart
NMB that's your bubble, burst it and get out otherwise you suffocate. It would be pity to lose so constructive brain.
Biky, the progression is very expensive (525 units) that one from Wiztek is cheaper and very good. What about to play your way and when you lose bet turn to Hammy's strategy to bet against the chops until you win? Or wait for 2 -3 virtual losses as a trigger to bet. You could start to play with smaller bankroll and when sometimes in blue moon the loss occurs it will not hurt a much.
Cheers Hermes
Hermes, I've tested your 'system' and it tanked BIG time. Was I surprised ?
Was I heck..
Betting on a dozen to repeat may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable.
No endeavour leads so straight to futility as gambling progressions without systematic mathematical knowledge.
Feel free to disagree..
I feel to disagree No more bets.."betting on a dozen to repeat may be defined as a illogical belief"..tell that to players who look for tables to bet against a streaking doz...and bust out..helk i can go thru many session and see a doz or colmn repeat or streak within 40 spins. This phenom even occurs on RNG..Nothing illogical taking advantage of a 2 to 1 bet..Caution is due with chops as systems recognize to play on as well..But then again no more bets.. i'm not sure i can disagree with u..ur language is a mystery wrapped up in a enigma=conspiracy..
When I play my system of
Last dozen
Last column
I will go seven or six misses in a row but I play virtual for at least half of them.
With my method I have a good chance of doing well as long as I keep track of the LWS.
Stuart
I've been going over some Wiesbaden numbers from the list provided by Homeito in the actuals section.
I've 3500 spins printed out, with some notes. Here's a summary of the first 2,000 spins:
d: different dozen to last (chop )
s: same dozen as last ( streak )
I ignore the 0.
same dozen:
4 ( =ssss, eg 12 9s 1s 7s7s ), 2x4 ( four ss in a row ), 3, 2x6, 4x2, 2x2, 3, 2, 4, 2x2, 4, 2x9, 4, 2x7, 5, 2x3, 4, 2x9, 3, 2x6, 3, 2, 3, 2x9, 3, 2x3, 3x2, 6, 2x10, 3x2, 2x4, 3, 2x5, 3, 2, 3, 2x6, 3, 4, 2, 3x2, 2x2, 3, 2, 3, 2x2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 3,x2, 2, 4, 3, 2x3, 4x2, 2x7, 5, 2x5.
different dozen:
4 ( eg: 23, 1d, 25d, 4d, 16d ) 12, 3, 6, 5, 3, 4, 5, 3, 5, 3, 4, 6, 4, 5, 5, 5, 3, 4, 3, 7, 5, 5, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 3, 4, 4, 6, 6, 3, 4, 3, 6, 5, 8, 5, 5, 7, 6, 4, 4, 13, 3, 4, 3 (500 spins ), 8, 3, 5, 6, 5, 3, 6, 5, 5, 4, 11, 6, 3, 14, 4, 3, 3, 3, 8, 5, 3, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 5, 3, 3, 5, 3, 7, 4, 3, 3, 3, 7, 9, 7, 8, 4, 4, 3, 3, 3, 6, 4, 4, 4, 5, 3, 5, 8 (1,000 spins ), 6, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, 4, 3, 4, 6, 8, 3, 3, 3, 6, 5, 5, 3, 7, 12, 4, 6, 3, 3, 5, 7, 4, 3, 9, 4, 5, 3, 3, 6, 5, 6, 6, 6, 5, 3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 6, 5, 5, 3, 7, 5, 6, 6, 4, 3, 4, 6, 20 (!), 3, 5, 6 (1,500 spins), 4, 7, 7, 3, 5, 3, 7, 4, 4, 3, 9, 8, 5, 3, 4, 4, 3, 3, 4, 9, 3, 5, 5, 3, 4, 3, 5, 5, 6, 9, (2,000 spins) 10, 3.
I'll work out the profit/loss of the progressions proposed in this thread later on.
A first conclusion is that, playing only short term does not protect one from a twelve chop sequence in the very first 25 spins.
Jeromin
Quote from: Jeromin on January 04, 2010, 04:42:03 PM
I've been going over some Wiesbaden numbers from the list provided by Homeito in the actuals section.
I've 3500 spins printed out, with some notes. Here's a summary of the first 2,000 spins:
d: different dozen to last (chop )
s: same dozen as last ( streak )
I ignore the 0.
same dozen:
4 ( =ssss, eg 12 9s 1s 7s7s ), 2x4 ( four ss in a row ), 3, 2x6, 4x2, 2x2, 3, 2, 4, 2x2, 4, 2x9, 4, 2x7, 5, 2x3, 4, 2x9, 3, 2x6, 3, 2, 3, 2x9, 3, 2x3, 3x2, 6, 2x10, 3x2, 2x4, 3, 2x5, 3, 2, 3, 2x6, 3, 4, 2, 3x2, 2x2, 3, 2, 3, 2x2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 3,x2, 2, 4, 3, 2x3, 4x2, 2x7, 5, 2x5.
different dozen:
4 ( eg: 23, 1d, 25d, 4d, 16d ) 12, 3, 6, 5, 3, 4, 5, 3, 5, 3, 4, 6, 4, 5, 5, 5, 3, 4, 3, 7, 5, 5, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 3, 4, 4, 6, 6, 3, 4, 3, 6, 5, 8, 5, 5, 7, 6, 4, 4, 13, 3, 4, 3 (500 spins ), 8, 3, 5, 6, 5, 3, 6, 5, 5, 4, 11, 6, 3, 14, 4, 3, 3, 3, 8, 5, 3, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 5, 3, 3, 5, 3, 7, 4, 3, 3, 3, 7, 9, 7, 8, 4, 4, 3, 3, 3, 6, 4, 4, 4, 5, 3, 5, 8 (1,000 spins ), 6, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, 4, 3, 4, 6, 8, 3, 3, 3, 6, 5, 5, 3, 7, 12, 4, 6, 3, 3, 5, 7, 4, 3, 9, 4, 5, 3, 3, 6, 5, 6, 6, 6, 5, 3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 6, 5, 5, 3, 7, 5, 6, 6, 4, 3, 4, 6, 20 (!), 3, 5, 6 (1,500 spins), 4, 7, 7, 3, 5, 3, 7, 4, 4, 3, 9, 8, 5, 3, 4, 4, 3, 3, 4, 9, 3, 5, 5, 3, 4, 3, 5, 5, 6, 9, (2,000 spins) 10, 3.
I'll work out the profit/loss of the progressions proposed in this thread later on.
A first conclusion is that, playing only short term does not protect one from a twelve chop sequence in the very first 25 spins.
Jeromin
Jeromin,
Those numbers are crazyness, stay away from that wheel, it's busted, must be an old wagon-wheel .. :laugh:
No More Bets,
As your name suggests, roulette is not for you .. :nono:
You seem to think roulette has something to do with mathematical knowledge ?.. :girl_wacko:
You need to stay in a world of predictability, roulette is just the opposite, random, anti-random, and just luck to "guess' the next number that the ball will land on. It's called gambling, nothing to do with mathematics or logic or probabilities. Sorry to mess with your pompous philosophy, but someone needs to put you straight. Think about it for just a minute and I hope you will understand. Cheers mate !
BTW.... I don't care about your "testing spins", I have made alot of "real" money with this system and it's as realiable as any roulette system you can play. If you disagree, tell me one that is as good ?
hammy :thumbsup:
Quote from: No More Bets on January 03, 2010, 10:15:45 PM
Hermes, I've tested your 'system' and it tanked BIG time. Was I surprised ?
Was I heck..
Betting on a dozen to repeat may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable.
No endeavour leads so straight to futility as gambling progressions without systematic mathematical knowledge.
Feel free to disagree..
Quote from: hammy on January 04, 2010, 05:45:31 PM
Jeromin,
Those numbers are crazyness, stay away from that wheel, it's busted, must be an old wagon-wheel .. :laugh:
Old wagon-wheel? Wiesbaden?? Luxury high stakes casino run by engineering obsessed Germans? Who are confident enough about their wheels' calibration and fairness to make the spins publicly available? I'd like to see a Vegas casino do that!
Then again, I'm a practical person. If an online "live" casino, or Dublin Bet ( truly "live", but allegedly operated by lazy ass, random busting dealers ) gives me an edge, I'll go with those. The above results did make it quite hard getting a decent progression to work.
But then, why use that data, as it is done in this forum regularly, to test systems on RX?
For the record, I'm not interested in winning theoretical debates, only in winning games. I spend time testing systems, on paper and with real cash, so I can win on a regular basis. I'm waiting to get a reply from a bot designer, to collect data from a few online casinos, since I'm not planning on travelling to Wiesbaden any time soon. So I'm actually glad to hear the German data is not representative of what I can expect form a WilliamHill, Bet365, DB or the like.
Hi jeromin..good work u put into Wiesbaden results..Say can u see any advatange between ..say when a doz end a streak..using that as a trigger...would it be better to follow the last 2 doz or bet on the unhit doz? i.e. doz/ 1 1 1 2..bet on 1 2 or a single bet on 3? Hammy do u like the Wiztek progression? thank u thank u very much....
Thanks poxet pool. On the d bets, I've tried a short progression after ddd in stages, as follows:
1 1 2 stop 3 4 6 stop 9 14 21 stop 31 47 70 stop
So basically, If I lose after dddddd ( 6d = seven spins in a row without repeated dozen, the second spin being the first chop, or "d") I wait for the next ddd and start another progression, only this time 3 4 6 stop, etc.
The only loss in 3500 spins occurred just before the first 1,000 spins. You can see it: the sequence 7,9,7,8. There were a few close calls, not losing the whole bankroll by one spin. This system avoids long sequences, so it does not go bust 6/7 times every couple thousand spins, and once it stops it does not matter how long the chop sequence is ( there's a 21 chop sequence later on )
Unfortunately, the progression's so long ( bankroll 209 units ) that it ends up wiping out all winnings. Then again, it only occur once in 3,500 spins. It'd be interesting to test it for 10,000, but that's a job for RX. Also the progression can be lowered so not every step yields a profit ( eg: 1 1 1 stop 2 3 4 stop etc. )
Other sequences:
1 stop 1 stop etc. after ddd:
goes to 11th step ( 6,5,8,5,5,7,6,4,4,13,3) just before 500 spin mark, afterwards, a few times to 7th step.
1 2 stop etc, after ddd:
goes bust 5 times in 2k ( too many 5xd sequences )
1 2 stop at dddd:
goes bust 4 times at 3500 mark ( my first attempt, led me to start at ddd)
Another option is a very short progression after ddd: 1 1 2 stop. hopefully the W makes up for the L.
In the first 2k:
3,5: +2
4:+1
>=6 : -4
3,5: 102x2=204
4: 38x1=38
>=6: 54x(-4): -216
204+38-216= +26 units
less than 1 unit per 50 spins!
Quote from: poxet pool on January 04, 2010, 07:18:25 PM
Hi jeromin..good work u put into Wiesbaden results..Say can u see any advatange between ..say when a doz end a streak..using that as a trigger...would it be better to follow the last 2 doz or bet on the unhit doz? I.e. doz/ 1 1 1 2..bet on 1 2 or a single bet on 3? Hammy do u like the Wiztek progression? thank u thank u very much....
poxet,
the Wiztek: 1-1-2-3-4-6-8-13-20-30-45-68 (12 step - 201 units) progression is fine for betting every spin without waiting for 4 or 5 chops before betting. You make less per hit than my 3-4-6-9-14-21-32-48-72 but you will get more hits because you are playing every spin. My system waits at least 3 chops before betting, but I only play for 5 hits then quit. Either way is probably good.
The SS part shows more promise. 2s are very common ( 111) compared to 3s (23) and 4s ( 11). There's also a sharp drop after 4s: only two 5s and one 6s. So a progression 1 2 6, profiting only in the first step, reduces the risk to 18 units. Since the 5s & 6s are not close by ( in this small sample ), it is possible to double the initial progression to 2 4 12 ( or even triple it ) to recover quickly.
Flat betting for 2s gives 111x1 -[(23+12+2+1)x(-2)]= 35 units. very little for 2,000 spins.
But the 2s are in long sequences, so a positive progression +1 +2 +4 +4 etc gives over 100 units.
this is how the 2s are grouped:
4,6,2,1,2,9,7,3,9,6,1,9,3,10,4,5,1,6,1,2,1,2,1,1,3,7,5.
so a group of 6 ss will give: +1 +2 +4 +4+4+4 -8 = +11.
only groupings of 1 (-1), 2 ( -5) and 3 ( -1) give negative results.
On the 3,500 spins example by Jeromin you can see we would lose only once on the 20 chops! Everything else would be won if we bet the dozens and columns simultaneously but if we could wait for 5 chops what comes very often on dozen or column we would win all 3,500 spins. If the 20 chops were on dozen I bet you the column was doing some streaks for our salvation (SOS).
Hermes
Quote from: hermes on January 04, 2010, 11:01:02 PM
On the 3,500 spins example by Jeromin you can see we would lose only once on the 20 chops! Everything else would be won if we bet the dozens and columns simultaneously but if we could wait for 5 chops what comes very often on dozen or column we would win all 3,500 spins. If the 20 chops were on dozen I bet you the column was doing some streaks for our salvation (SOS).
Hermes
Well, lose once in the first 2,000 spins. I think there's at least one more later on, will have to check. The odds of a 20 chop dozen series simultaneously with a 15 chop column must be, one in many tens of thousand. In fact, Jimenez had an interesting system based on simultaneous column dozen chops. I tested a couple of thousand spins last summer, there were less than ten cases of five or more double chops. Maximum was 8 once.
Nice system...
checked some spins (251) live casino.. will check more..
Here the results:
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 11 13 Eindtotaal
Som 24 12 16 11 7 4 1 2 1 1 79
30% 15% 20% 14% 9% 5% 1% 3% 1% 1%
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 10 4 14 3 3 4 3 3 1 2 47
21% 9% 30% 6% 6% 9% 6% 6% 2% 4%
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 20 9 8 2 5 2 2 3 1 2 1 55
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 33 18 10 10 4 2 4 1 1 1 84
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 30 21 7 8 7 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 83
What language you use - Yeti, Big Foot?
Hermes
I like the idea of playing last dozen and last column at the same time.
That would have the same problem as playing two dozens or columns.
You have to win twice to make up for one loss.
When playing one dozen or column you can go six or seven losses till your next win.
But I still like the idea of playing a single doz or col.
With a fifteen step progression on a single doz or col one win should make you even or a little profit.
I will try playing last col and dozen at the same time and see what happens it could be fun.
Stuart
I did it long time ago with special progression. When both hit D & C simultaneously you go to 1 unit again but it can take even 30 spins! Alternate D/C is probably the best idea (diversification like in stock market?).
Hermes
Hermes,
What was the special progression you speak of, also are you in states.
Stuart
....hey guys..i dont understadnd...how you play that.I see that dozens are unreadable...for betting
You are right boomy, after bottle of whiskey they really are.
Biky, the special progression was: If both D/C win go to 1 unit on both, if one win keep the same bet on both, if both lose ad one step in eg. Wiztek progression on both! You rise both and lower both. If both hit you are released but it can take for ever.
Hermes
Quote from: hermes on January 07, 2010, 09:04:47 PM
What language you use - Yeti, Big Foot?
Hermes
Dutch-excel :)
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 11 13 14 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 19 24 14 5 5 4 1 1 1 1 1 76
the first 14th progression.. probability of 99.59 %
ok an analysis of 2000 spins..
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 tot
206 135 97 64 44 32 17 12 9 7 9 4 1 637
32.3% 21.2% 15.2% 10.0% 6.9% 5.0% 2.7% 2% 1% 1% 1% 0% 1% 0%
206 270 291 256 220 192 119 96 81 70 99 0 52 14 1966
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 31 15 10 7 7 2 5 1 2 2 1 2 1 86
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 16 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 15 17 9 5 3 5 2 1 1 1 1 1 61
A short analysis based on Grabb's probabilty and the actuals so far... Strategy last dozen next last column..etc
spins 2476
progr. actuals grabb deviation
1 252 32.14% 254 -2 32.43%
2 167 21.30% 172 -5 21.92%
3 116 14.80% 116 0 14.80%
4 76 9.69% 78 -2 10.01%
5 54 6.89% 53 1 6.76%
6 39 4.97% 36 3 4.57%
7 22 2.81% 24 -2 3.08%
8 15 1.91% 16 -1 2.09%
9 12 1.53% 11 1 1.40%
10 10 1.28% 8 2 0.96%
11 11 1.40% 5 6 0.64%
12 3 0.38% 3 0 0.43%
13 5 0.64% 2 3 0.30%
14 1 0.13% 2 -1 0.20%
15 1 -1 0.13%
16 1 0.13% 1 0 0.09%
17 0 0.06%
18 0 0.04%
19 0 0.03%
20 0 0.02%
21 0 0.01%
total 784 100.00% 784
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 20 10 13 5 3 4 1 1 2 1 1 1 62
Ok here is some play today play money as always.
PLAY LAST SINGLE SPUN COLUMN THEN LAST SINGLE SPUN DOZEN OVER AND OVER
WLWLLWWLLWLLLLWWLLLLWLLLLLWWWLLLLWLLLWLL
5 10 15 25 40 65 105 170
From the above results we would only need a six step progression today, however this may not be the session from hell lol.
I think this may be safer then playing on two dozens or columns, am I correct on that I am not sure. :no:
Stuart
Kolomlabels
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 Eindtotaal
Som van freq 27 30 20 4 11 2 2 2 1 2 1 102
I think the method I am using seems to win about every four spins if I would use lankys lws till the third or fourth spin it might make some money.
My above sample reveals I should play virtual at least till you get three ls does that make sense guys.
Playing two dozens digs a deep hole in the bankroll most of the time and you can't get out is the above a risky play.
I wonder how this would do on a double zero wheel$
Stuart
Rheti what do the charts mean.
The only way I play is last col, last doz, thr most losses I have seen is seven in a row, now on double zero wheel you will see o oo around every 12 spins give or take a bit so progression much more crucial on american wheel.
Stuart
Rheti could you speak English or only Dutch? Let your posts translated, please if you want to express yourself. This is no help for us.
Hermes
Quote from: hermes on January 09, 2010, 01:50:55 PM
Rheti could you speak English or only Dutch? Let your posts translated, please if you want to express yourself. This is no help for us.
Hermes
What's wrong with my english, Hermes ?
pins 2476
progr. actuals grabb deviation
1 252 32.14% 254 -2 32.43%
2 167 21.30% 172 -5 21.92%
3 116 14.80% 116 0 14.80%
4 76 9.69% 78 -2 10.01%
5 54 6.89% 53 1 6.76%
6 39 4.97% 36 3 4.57%
7 22 2.81% 24 -2 3.08%
8 15 1.91% 16 -1 2.09%
9 12 1.53% 11 1 1.40%
10 10 1.28% 8 2 0.96%
11 11 1.40% 5 6 0.64%
12 3 0.38% 3 0 0.43%
13 5 0.64% 2 3 0.30%
14 1 0.13% 2 -1 0.20%
15 1 -1 0.13%
16 1 0.13% 1 0 0.09%
17 0 0.06%
18 0 0.04%
19 0 0.03%
20 0 0.02%
21 0 0.01%
total 784 100.00% 784
Rheti that:
Kolomlabels; Som van freg; Eindtotaal??? That's Hungarian!
Hermes
I had today twelve losses in a row today playing last column then last dozen lol.
I was like what heck is going on here I could not believe it lol.I think the columns were chopping and so were the dozens.
I am glad I was playing virtual for a good portion of it but I did build the bankroll up after a while.
Stuart
Quote from: hermes on January 09, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
Rheti that:
Kolomlabels; Som van freg; Eindtotaal??? That's Hungarian!
Hermes
ok.. but still interested in the results of following 2500 spins ? .. strategy last dozen-followed by last column.
I really like it:
spins 4500
progr. actuals
1 474 31.71%
2 337 22.54%
3 241 16.12%
4 122 8.16%
5 105 7.02%
6 72 4.82%
7 42 2.81%
8 29 1.94%
9 25 1.67%
10 16 1.07%
11 15 1.00%
12 7 0.47%
13 6 0.40%
14 1 0.07%
15 0
16 1 0.07%
17 1 0.07%
18 0
19 0
20 1 0.07%
21 0
total 1495100.00%
What does that mean you like what.
Stuart
Rheti are you playing last won column then last won dozen.
You need a 15 step progression when playing just won dozen or column.
Stuart
I am using this progression five dollar units.
5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75
Yes you need two hits to show a profit when playing with the above progression.
Stuart
I still think some kind of virtual play will save the bankroll from sure ruin lol.
Quote from: bikemotorman on January 10, 2010, 08:28:14 PM
What does that mean you like what.
Stuart
to play last dozen last column
Quote from: bikemotorman on January 10, 2010, 10:16:18 PM
I am using this progression five dollar units.
5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75
Yes you need two hits to show a profit when playing with the above progression.
Stuart
I still think some kind of virtual play will save the bankroll from sure ruin lol.
I analyzed so far 5400 spins ...Strategy last dozen followed by last column etc.
Here are the results 1 zero wheel germany spins (live casino).
1 583 32.28%
2 393 21.76%
3 290 16.06%
4 153 8.47%
5 130 7.20%
6 86 4.76%
7 52 2.88%
8 36 1.99%
9 29 1.61%
10 18 1.00%
11 17 0.94%
12 9 0.50%
13 6 0.33%
14 1 0.06%
15 0
16 1 0.06%
17 1 0.06%
18 0
19 0
20 1 0.06%
21
1806
Grabb's probability analysis on that spins gave the following results:
progr. grabb
1 586 32.43%
2 396 21.92%
3 267 14.80%
4 181 10.01%
5 122 6.76%
6 83 4.57%
7 56 3.08%
8 38 2.09%
9 25 1.40%
10 17 0.96%
11 12 0.64%
12 8 0.43%
13 5 0.30%
14 4 0.20%
15 2 0.13%
16 2 0.09%
17 1 0.06%
18 1 0.04%
19 1 0.03%
20 0 0.02%
21 0 0.01%
total 1805
I analyzed so far 6100 spins ...Strategy last dozen followed by last column etc.
Here are the results 1 zero wheel germany spins (live casino).
1 654 32.31%
2 436 21.54%
3 331 16.35%
4 172 8.50%
5 141 6.97%
6 103 5.09%
7 57 2.82%
8 39 1.93%
9 31 1.53%
10 18 0.89%
11 17 0.84%
12 14 0.69%
13 7 0.35%
14 1 0.05%
15 0
16 1 0.05%
17 1 0.05%
18 0
19 0
20 1 0.05%
21
total 2024 100.00%
I analyzed so far 6915 spins ...Strategy last dozen followed by last column etc.
1 745 32.34%
2 506 21.96%
3 367 15.93%
4 200 8.68%
5 160 6.94%
6 114 4.95%
7 66 2.86%
8 45 1.95%
9 32 1.39%
10 21 0.91%
11 19 0.82%
12 18 0.78%
13 7 0.30%
14 1 0.04%
15 0
16 1 0.04%
17 1 0.04%
18 0
19 0
20 1 0.04%
21
total 2304 100.00%
Rheti I only play last spun column then last spun dozen I guess it is the same.
Stuart
Quote from: bikemotorman on January 11, 2010, 10:53:37 AM
Rheti I only play last spun column then last spun dozen I guess it is the same.
Stuart
Well this analysis is based on last dozen followed by last column..
I am starting to become enthusiastic...
Here the results till 7400 spins..
1 795 32.28%
2 545 22.13%
3 395 16.04%
4 217 8.81%
5 166 6.74%
6 121 4.91%
7 69 2.80%
8 48 1.95%
9 35 1.42%
10 22 0.89%
11 21 0.85%
12 18 0.73%
13 7 0.28%
14 1 0.04%
15 0
16 1 0.04%
17 1 0.04%
18 0
19 0
20 1 0.04%
21
total 2463 100.00%
Grabbs profitibility :
1 799 -4 32.43%
2 540 5 21.92%
3 365 30 14.80%
4 247 -30 10.01%
5 166 0 6.76%
6 113 8 4.57%
7 76 -7 3.08%
8 51 -3 2.09%
9 34 1 1.40%
10 24 -2 0.96%
11 16 5 0.64%
12 11 7 0.43%
13 7 0 0.30%
14 5 -4 0.20%
15 3 -3 0.13%
16 2 -1 0.09%
17 1 0 0.06%
18 1 -1 0.04%
19 1 -1 0.03%
20 0.49 1 0.02%
21 0.25 0.01%
total 2462 99.97%
till the 11th progression actuals are following grab's theory : 98.7%
but from 12th till 21th progression there are quite less actuals in compare to prediction..
Hey guys, don't mean to be rude but I think you should start your own thread with your testing that is not for my system, "Bet Last Doz. to Repeat".
My system only deals with betting the last dozen to repeat... NO COLUMNS !! .. :rtfm:
Start a new thread with your columns and dozens theory, thanks !
cheers ! ... :)
Rheti, my Dutch friend what it means? I see it as 2643 units won in 7500 spins. Am I right or what?
To be enthusiastic is a good sign, keep going.
Thanks, Hermes
:)
Quote from: hermes on January 11, 2010, 01:46:43 PM
Rheti, my Dutch friend what it means? I see it as 2643 units won in 7500 spins. Am I right or what?
To be enthusiastic is a good sign, keep going.
Thanks, Hermes
:)
Hermes,
if I made a 14th progression system, like this:
1 1 1 1 1 3 2
2 1 1 1 2 3 1
3 2 1 2 4 6 2
4 3 1 3 7 9 2
5 4 1 4 11 12 1
6 6 1 6 17 18 1
7 9 1 9 26 27 1
8 14 1 14 40 42 2
9 21 1 21 61 63 2
10 31 1 31 92 93 1
11 47 1 47 139 141 2
12 70 1 70 209 210 1
13 105 1 105 314 315 1
14 158 1 158 472 474 2
I should have won:
1 818 32.20%
2 563 22.17%
3 404 15.91%
4 225 8.86%
5 171 6.73%
6 124 4.88%
7 73 2.87%
8 49 1.93%
9 37 1.46%
10 23 0.91%
11 22 0.87%
12 19 0.75%
13 7 0.28%
14 1 0.04%
= 4092 units and lost 4 * -472= 1888 units
15 0
16 1 0.04%
17 1 0.04%
18 1 0.04%
19 0
20 1 0.04%
in 7700 spins...
so far a nice result... will go to the other thread, Hammy has right..
How much longer were the 4 losses over the 14 spin progression? What would happen if you would wait for 3 LLL as a triger to play?
Hermes
How much longer were the 4 losses over the 14 spin progression?
Do'nt understand, Hermes.. must be my English language :)
there were 4 chops longer as 14.. namely 16-17-18-20
That exactly what I want to know! 16,17,18 and 20. That's tough but cps10' ladder progression for one D/C works until 28 spins! You are smart guy Rheti.
Hermes
What is cps10 progression never heard of it before.
Stuart