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Main => Main Roulette System Board => Topic started by: fender1000 on April 11, 2010, 09:29:17 PM

Title: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: fender1000 on April 11, 2010, 09:29:17 PM
I have started this thread to show forum members more about how I stake and handle various situations in my betting. I think this will enlighten members more as to how my strategies have come to be successful. The first thing I want to address is BANKROLL. There is a saying, TALK QUITELY BUT WALK WITH A BIG STICK. In gambling terms this would convert to stake relatively small in comparison to the size of your bankroll. Although someone like Stackbundles has converted £20.00 into £300 plus. He could have just as easily wiped it out. Had he encountered a hatrick of losses at the outset of his betting on my ZONE strategy. He was fortunate that he hit enough winners to build a decent sized bankroll. And enter a safer place. I would advocate that your starting bankroll should be at the very least 200 times your minumum bet. I.E £200 for a minumum stake of £1. This allows you to survive any brick walls you might encounter. My bankroll is 1,000 times the size of my minumum stake. Basically I will never be wiped out with that powerbase behind me. That represents a bankroll that would allow me to lose more than 80 times in a row before I would be wiped out. And that is something that will never occur with the way I bet and the consistency of the Strategies I employ. The next thing that should be considered is staking progression. With the zone for example I employ a 4 step progression 1,1,2,3. Very sensible and easily recovered when it fails. Never ever double up for more than 4 or 5 steps. Its the fastet way to the poor house. And has finished off many a gambler even when they had decent strategies. I don't believe in rigid mechanical staking either. I prefer what I call instinctive staking. Like a poker player. When you feel a win is imminent. You raise 3,4,5 times your normal level. Likewise when you have won 2 or 3 times in a row you refrain or stop alltogether. Its this judgement and discipline that really makes the difference between slow or no progress and steady and inspiring movement up the financial ladder. As your bankroll grows so to should your stake size. Just as if you were running a business. You re-invest and grow. Tomorrow I will add more about BANKROLL and various betting scenarios. Let me know if you find this thread helpful please.                                                                                                                    
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: coosemaker on April 12, 2010, 08:56:55 AM
Hey Fender
I like your thinking.

You need to space out your sentances just a little bit.

Difficult to read.


I have started this thread to show forum members more about how I stake and handle various situations in my betting.  I think this will enlighten members more as to how my strategies have come to be successful.  The first thing I want to address is BANKROLL.
There is a saying, TALK QUITELY BUT WALK WITH A BIG STICK.  In gambling terms this would convert to stake relatively small in comparison to the size of your bankroll.  Although someone like Stackbundles has converted £20. 00 into £300 plus.  He could have just as easily wiped it out.  Had he encountered a hatrick of losses at the outset of his betting on my ZONE strategy
He was fortunate that he hit enough winners to build a decent sized bankroll.  And enter a safer place.  I would advocate that your starting bankroll should be at the very least 200 times your minumum bet.  I. E £200 for a minumum stake of £1.  This allows you to survive any brick walls you might encounter.  My bankroll is 1,000 times the size of my minumum stake.  Basically I will never be wiped out with that powerbase behind me.

That represents a bankroll that would allow me to lose more than 80 times in a row before I would be wiped out.  And that is something that will never occur with the way I bet and the consistency of the Strategies I employ.  The next thing that should be considered is staking progression.  With the zone for example I employ a 4 step progression 1,1,2,3.  Very sensible and easily recovered when it fails.  Never ever double up for more than 4 or 5 steps.  Its the fastet way to the poor house.  And has finished off many a gambler even when they had decent strategies.

I don't believe in rigid mechanical staking either.  I prefer what I call instinctive staking.  Like a poker player.  When you feel a win is imminent.  You raise 3,4,5 times your normal level.  Likewise when you have won 2 or 3 times in a row you refrain or stop alltogether.  Its this judgement and discipline that really makes the difference between slow or no progress and steady and inspiring movement up the financial ladder.  As your bankroll grows so to should your stake size.  Just as if you were running a business.  You re-invest and grow.  Tomorrow I will add more about BANKROLL and various betting scenarios.  Let me know if you find this thread helpful please.     

Keep winning  ;D ;D


coosemaker
           

Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Peter1 on April 12, 2010, 06:09:35 PM
I agree; well spoken Fender.  I agree fully with your writing.  Keep up the good work.

Peter
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Proofreaders2000 on April 16, 2010, 02:56:35 AM
Fender, in order for The Zone Dozens to work, you would have to win seven games to overcome a set of losses.  Wouldn't it be wise to end the session after one full progression fails?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 06:46:33 PM
>>How do you know with reasonable certainty that you are not sitting down at the very beginning of one of those nasty streaks? >>

Well put, Sam. All you can ever know for sure is what just happened, you have no clue whatsoever as to what will happen next, let alone 5min from now. You cannot pin down random outcomes and anybody who says they can is a fool.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:14:49 PM
Especially since you have just cancelled out one of those expected losses by sitting the game out.>>>

This is all playing on paper, none of this crap works in a real casino. You constantly present nothing but best case scenerios, like roulette is a dog you've tamed and it does your bidding. I don't don't care if you've been playing for 40 years and use a Ouija board, you have no clue to whats coming next. Nothing protects you, not stop gaps, not hit and run, not safety mechanisms, nothing. These are illusions talked about by people who have no real playing experience.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:20:34 PM
So you are telling me that the game I played today>>

You mean the game you played on paper and has all the curve fitted results? That game? It has to be, its the only game you play.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 08:37:01 PM
The problem is, Fender has already shown that he is utterly perplexed by randomness and that it has completely bamboozled him. That is why much of what he says regarding him being a "professional" is not only hard to believe but hard to fathom considering the amount of misconceptions he is relying on. He is at a stage now where every new player starts. He thinks he has found something amazing, and that constantly adding in new rules is normal and still reflects previous results. Every time a new rule is added it makes everything that went before redundant. This system has only really been tested for a few hundred spins and Fender thinks he has the game beaten hands down. He is now one step up the ladder from the Martingale. He keeps telling us he will humble us. The ironic thing is, he doesn't even know how.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:38:00 PM
What challenge. I missed it, couldn't have been much.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 08:40:09 PM
Quote from: fender1000 on April 17, 2010, 08:39:33 PM
Danger are you a coward too? Nothing will humble you more than a real live meeting. You will come back on here. And tell another story I assure you. Please have the guts to do it. Its time to put up or shut up danger. Are you man enough??

Fender what would that achieve exactly?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
 telling us he will humble us. The ironic thing is, he doesn't even know how.>>

He can humble me in an instant by explaining how 1-2-35-36 have to come up evry 74 spins. How hard can hat be? Jus explain.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:47:43 PM
YOU WILL SEE THE STRATEGY WORKING.>>

I don't need to go that far. You can convince me by just explaining the 1 2 35 36 thing or why one street is better than another. Very easy to do if you've been playing for 10 years. Go ahead, humble me.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
telling us he will humble us. The ironic thing is, he doesn't even know how.>>

He can humble me in an instant by explaining how 1-2-35-36 have to come up evry 74 spins. How hard can hat be? Jus explain.

He can't explain that because he is wrong and isn't man enough to admit it. In fact, he probably doesn't even know WHY he is wrong. How many times have you asked him now? And how many times has he squirmed out of it? He squirmed out of all my questions too. At the end of the day all Fender can do now is hide behind Stackbundles.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 08:52:02 PM
Quote from: fender1000 on April 17, 2010, 08:50:52 PM
Where did I say they all come up. I am saying you will never see a 74 spin sequence. without at least one of those numbers present. Usually at least two of them have hit by then. Now how is this useful. If you have seen anyof those numbers for 40 or more spins its time to cover them in two splits. Profit is assured over the next 10 to 15 spins.

There is no hope for you Fender. I truly fear for you and I fear for all the desperados you are leading up the garden path.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 08:55:49 PM
Quote from: Stackbundles on April 17, 2010, 08:51:23 PM
lets just have a fight a boys lol ill give you 10/1 to beat me

Sorry, I wouldn't want to kill your last two remaining brain cells.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:57:25 PM
I am saying you will never see a 74 spin sequence. without at least one of those numbers present.>>

Thats what I'm talking about. Please explain why those 4 numbers are different than the other numbers on the wheel. Please explain why all 4 of those numbers can't all sleep at once for longer than 74 spins. Explain all that and I will be humbled. By the way, I can explain why you're 100% wrong. Want to hear it and be humbled yourself?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 08:59:23 PM
cannot sleep at night knowing I am responsible for Stackbundles>>>

When Stackbundles speaks, why does your mouth move? Just curious.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 09:06:09 PM
Quote from: Stackbundles on April 17, 2010, 08:56:39 PM
danger you take my offer up?

10/1 fancy it?

danger man bet you aint had any danger

come on take my offer up it will all be set up professionaly


Does anyone else find this offer unusual?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 09:07:00 PM
Quote from: fender1000 on April 17, 2010, 08:56:52 PM
Yeah I really fear for my £17,000 powerbase. And I just cannot sleep at night knowing I am responsible for Stackbundles converting 20pts into £600 in a fortnight. Oh what have I done danger. WAKE UP! You are yesterdays news DANGER, CHEESE. I have found the way. End of story.

You have found a way to promote ladbrokes casino is what you've done :)
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 09:11:58 PM
Fender, call it an allegation OK?

Conversely, YOUR real, documented lies are beginning to pile up.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: Stackbundles on April 17, 2010, 09:17:02 PM
hold on to promote something you need a link to click to get the commission I cant find his link anywhere

and how would ladbrokes know how many people he has got to go there?

plus people will go to there chosen casino anyways seeing as they are on here im sure they are signed up to one

and for the fight I thought u was a dangour es man like shamrock?

so thought id offer you 10/1

but ill stereotype you right now

I bet your life is boring I can picture what you look like and I think I see a snotty nose geek wearing button ups and cords
why would you turn my offer down? your DANGER MAN plus I said it would be professional level not anything like a street fight


Stackbundles, is there any need to resort to personal insults?  Maybe you want to fight Cheese as well or Noble Savage or Rheti, or anyone else who doesn't agree with you?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 10:34:27 PM
Why do you want to have a fight and why do you think it is acceptable/normal to ask for one?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: cheese on April 17, 2010, 10:57:33 PM
When you run out of lame explanations and excuses, physical violence is all thats left. Very sad.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: xman1970 on April 17, 2010, 11:11:33 PM
@ stacks

come on mate, pls reel it back in........

thought you were going to lay off the insults..... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

the way these kinda threads are rollin at the moment, there will be ABSOULETLY nothing worth reading.... :diablo:

again my last post on this thread, my large forehead is getting kinda bloody from hitting this virtual brick wall   >:(
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Herb6 on April 17, 2010, 11:31:27 PM
You guys should worry more about how to gain the edge, and less about money management.

Focusing all of your attention on money management rather than on how to actually get the edge is like worrying about how to spend your money rather than focusing on how to make more of it.

Fact: Money management alone can NOT make you a long term winner.

-Herb6

I'm fighting the war on blarney one post at a time. :)
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 17, 2010, 11:54:52 PM
Quote from: cheese on April 17, 2010, 10:57:33 PM
When you run out of lame explanations and excuses, physical violence is all thats left. Very sad.

What I don't get is that Stackbundles claims to have several national qualifications in sports science and "computers". Yet he behaves like an ignorant street urchin. Also much of computing is based on maths, but Stackbundles doesn't understand maths. His expertise in computing and the other disciplines therein that he claims to have would be very highly sought after right now and feasibly he could walk into any rewarding, well-paid job in any city. Yet he plays roulette with paltry £1 units and bets a few quid here and there on betfair. Lastly, does offering to fight a complete stranger he met on an internet forum for absolutely no reason sound like a rational, intelligent person whose word we should be taking seriously?
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Danger Man on April 18, 2010, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Herb6 on April 17, 2010, 11:31:27 PM
You guys should worry more about how to gain the edge, and less about money management.

Focusing all of your attention on money management rather than on how to actually get the edge is like worrying about how to spend your money rather than focusing on how to make more of it.

Fact: Money management alone can NOT make you a long term winner.

-Herb6

I'm fighting the war on blarney one post at a time. :)

When Fender and Stackbundles play roulette the absolute maths of the game does not apply to them. Fender has found a magical loophole in randomness that allows him to play a certain dozen at a certain time with a 75% chance of winning.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: bombus on April 18, 2010, 05:12:18 AM

Hey stickfumbles,

I'm good for a fight....but only if I can I wear my spiderman suit?



(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi499.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr351%2Fskakus%2Fspideysuit.jpg&hash=393c0ebf823160f9aad8a924cabbd834b2b373d9)
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: hamsup_sotong on April 18, 2010, 09:17:44 AM
guys this is really getting no where. What the point of all this? Name calling and finger pointing is an endless cycle.

If you have something to contribute to the thread please do. IF you dont like it, you dont have to come in wreck the thread. One man's meat is another man's poison anyway.

hamsup
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: A3on47 on April 18, 2010, 11:43:34 AM
@Bombus

I wake up and the first post I saw was your spider man pic in this thread..
Thanks for make my day start with a good laugh  :lol:
ahah
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: atlantis on April 18, 2010, 12:46:03 PM
Quote
Thats just it. There is no edge to be gained UNDER NORMAL circumstances with this game. This idea that you can flat bet on an even chance and profit. has long been proven flawed thinking. The house edge definately affects the results. The ONLY way you can beat roulette is to find something that delivers a high enough strike rate with excellent consistency. Then with the RIGHT application using a slight but limited progression such as 1.1.2.3. And tight play to avoid as many losers as possible. You can indeed turn a profit. That is EXACTLY what THE ZONE is about. But as I now realize only a small few can take this onboard. And they will profit from it when they do... :yes:

Hi Fender,
Thanx for posting details of the ZONE dozen system. And now a "tracking" question. Can you pls tell me how you play/record it immediately after one of the winning dozen bets hit?
Do you start over tracking for an unhit dozen to reach a count of four - or do you continue the count on a dozen that is already tracked as unhit for 1,  2, 3 or 4 spins?  And if in the case of 4 missed hits does betting then begin on that doz? Thanks, Atlantis.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Bayes on April 18, 2010, 02:28:44 PM
Quotemoney management IS the edge, that fact has been enphasized enough, systems will not work without it

Money management is necessary, but on its own is not enough. You cannot gain an edge merely by manipulating your stakes.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Herb6 on April 18, 2010, 02:49:11 PM
You really shouldn't place another bet until you can comprehend the following.

The long term edge on single zero roulette is -2.7%

Now, what bet amount can you multiply x -2.7% and produce a positive value?

Understand?

It's very easy to design a progression that wins 90% of the time.  Unfortunately, it's when you lose that 10% of the time that it destroys your bankroll. 

 
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Herb6 on April 18, 2010, 05:09:34 PM


Numbers and EC bets never become due in the random game of roulette.  The foundation of your system is nothing more than "The Gambler's Fallacy." 

A few bets here and a few bets there eventually add up to equal the long run.

Here are a few questions to make you think: 

1. Why do you only play for brief periods? 
2. When you end a session or hit and run, to where do you run and how long must you stay away before you can play again?
3. When you hit a stop loss, how long must you wait before you can play again?  The next spin?  10 spins later? The next day perhaps? 


Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Proofreaders2000 on April 18, 2010, 06:37:40 PM
Don't feel bad Fender, casino repersentatives hate system designers.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: moles40 on April 19, 2010, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Stackbundles on April 18, 2010, 06:21:21 PM
after reading this thread nolinks://baccaratforums.com/t6335/ (nolinks://baccaratforums.com/t6335/) I have even more confidence of the way you play fender



Thats a good find,you can apply many of that guy's playing strategies to roulette,i notice sometimes he waits an hour before placing a bet :D and once he has hit his target he is off.

I like this comment"Many people rush their bet like there is no tomorrow. They forget that the casino is always there and if they don't place any bet at all, they don't lose. They are on even ground and they are far better than those who lost."

A very nice forum as well,with people keen to congratulate him,and none of the vile abuse you get from people here if you post a winning system :angry2:

Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: bombus on April 19, 2010, 08:31:39 PM
Quote from: Stackbundles on April 19, 2010, 08:24:45 PM
look at gorden brown his thing is maths yet he still f****d england up

That's not true. England was already f****d up. Just ask number six, he'll tell you.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Davemd on April 21, 2010, 06:04:34 PM
Hi Scooby,

like your post.

May I please ask you are you playing a double zero or single zero wheel please ?

Thanks in advance,

Davemd.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: bikemotorman on April 22, 2010, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: ScoobyDoo on April 21, 2010, 05:48:44 PM
Hi Fender,
I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Directly west of here about 130 miles is a small border town straddling the Nevada State line. It is a called Wendover. Maybe when you come here, we can get together and try out your Zone there (and other methods) and then head for Las Vegas...what do you say? I am getting a riding scooter so my mobility will be better by the time you get here.

Regards,
Scooby Doo


Scooby I am an inventor check out my invention on youtube.
It is a engine that goes on the back of a Bicycle and turns it into kind of like a moped lol

nolinks.youtube.com/ihartpie (nolinks://nolinks.youtube.com/ihartpie)



                Stuart
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: buffalowizard on April 22, 2010, 03:21:01 PM
Hi Scooby,

I was wondering if you were still playing/testing on this? I have looked back over a lot of old cards and it holds up nicely. Definately a strong bet. I think it would be pretty safe still, if you betted after only one loss. I know 2 losses is better, but can take hundreds of spins, at least with my data.
Thanks for the idea, I will keep checking it.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: bikemotorman on April 22, 2010, 04:45:37 PM
Sorry about that you had Magicjack.

How have you been I am still messing with the wheels lol.

Have you gone to the casino and are you winning.

                  Stuart
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: buffalowizard on April 22, 2010, 05:28:41 PM
Cheers for the reply Scooby,

It's one of those questions I ask myself. Does waiting for a rare event mean that a Win after it is any more likely than a win after a less rare event. If you know what I mean?

So you wait a long time for a LL, meaning you get less bets
You wait a shorter time for a L, meaning you get more bets

But does it only 'seem' like you are getting more hits after a LL, because you are making less bets?

Sorry if this is unclear.



Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: moles40 on April 22, 2010, 05:34:51 PM
Am I reading this right,we are betting on the 1+2 and 35+36 splits,but we wait until any of the numbers have hit twice before we start betting,and what progression do we use.

Hey Scooby most of the casino in Vegas have the zero wheel I think? at least in Downtown Vegas,I remember last time I visited I was playing on a zero wheel,although more people were playing the double zero wheel ;D

I even remember finding a craps table that paid 3-1 on the double six,which was was a good thing as my mate who I was with hit 3 out of his first 4 throws on the double 6 ;D what an amazing session that was,over 1500 dollars in profit in 10 mins  :) ;D

Anyway all the best with your system.

Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: buffalowizard on April 22, 2010, 05:38:13 PM
Hey moles

You wait for a 1-2 or 35-36 to hit, then count 14 spins

If these numbers don't hit again then that is 1 loss

Then you wait for another trigger, then count 14 spins again

If there is no hit within these spins then its another loss, so that's 2 losses

Then you wait for 1-2 or 35-36 to hit again, then bet for 14 spins...basically to win after the 2 losses

Hope this is clear
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: moles40 on April 23, 2010, 04:33:50 AM
dublinbet just now 35 36 0 35   :laugh:
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: bombus on April 23, 2010, 05:21:31 AM

As a table layout bet splits are messy because they overlap too much, maybe that's good and maybe that's bad... I think it's bad.

Streets are much tidier for this type of method. You could easily adjust the math and track every Street to find a bet like this. 

If you like Fender's thinking and magic bullets, then Fender advocates for the 28-29-30 street. Perhaps you can tweak a sweet spot method for that street.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: buffalowizard on April 23, 2010, 03:08:31 PM
Hi guys

good ideas, interesting to try and develop this one for optimum performance!

I had one past card which was crazy. about 150 spins:

The amount of 35,1     1,2      35, 36     1,36 was incredible. I think hits between 6 and 20 are very frequent, so will be looking at this. If not, then waiting one loss seems very safe and credible if you have the bankroll to make the bet worthwhile.

Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: buffalowizard on April 24, 2010, 02:53:06 PM
Hey scooby

How would the LW's look like if you betted from 1-12? Maybe there would be a better way of attacking it from that perspective such as waiting for 1 or 2 losses
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: buffalowizard on April 25, 2010, 04:18:15 AM
From what I have seen, 3 losses is a rare event. If we started betting after 1 loss, and had a 10-14 step progression to last up to the 3rd loss, maybe that would work? So basically, we need a 28 leg progression!

I'm no fan of steep and scary progs, but if the 3 losses don't appear often, then we could all end in a plus!
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: Herb6 on April 25, 2010, 10:34:09 PM
Wow, this is scary.
Title: Re: Money management and betting scenarios...
Post by: greenlatern on April 26, 2010, 01:31:58 AM
Hey Scoobie,

Smart move.   It takes a lot of testing and tweaking to come up with a solid bet.   Just because something works for a few hundred or even a thousand spins doesn't mean it's a sure bet. 

This may be as good or better than the Zone, but it hasn't been proven yet.   

I know that you know this.   Just adding my "amen" to your decision to slow down.