What makes them correct? Where are the answers to the very tough questions. My question is somewhat similar to Spikes question. He says that the math must have changed because the accomplishment supersedes the older beliefs. Now that's not a question but it does imply that a questions still remains.
I've presented the idea that getting guesses right or wrong is a pure 50/50 situation. If I'm betting on EC's then the results are 50/50 in the payoff too. Now we all know that the house has the chance of getting any bet wrong slightly skewed in its favor. Those greens change the payoff balance. So the only way to beat that is to make bets that are correctly selected more than when they are wrong. Can that be done? That is the only question. Herb insists that it is not.
I say it's possible because you don't have to place bets so that you must experience everything that randomness produces. You are not under some commandment to continually bet the exact same amount and every time a spin happens. By changing the current situation you change the math. Herb says that all you are doing is delaying what must happen. In fact if you were to have a good stretch of good luck he says that you must have bad luck that supersedes the good luck. I say it's possible to avoid the bad luck. I say it's possible to delay the bad luck forever. At least from a standpoint that you wish to delay as long as you play, whenever you play. Now if that does in fact happen then Herb is still correct. He has acknowledged that delaying the inevitable is a possibility.
So the question is, can anyone deliberately delay bad stretches while making temporary advances in good stretches? It comes down to each specific instance of the situation. According to Herb there must be a loss expectation that must be experienced. In fact he is saying that it is due. It's also possible that counting on that expectation is a form of Gambler's Fallacy. This situational conditioning is the only question. Now Herb says he is willing to help with the math. What is the math for delaying bad stretches? Is there math that explains delaying bad stretches? Why can't a savvy player just simply not participate in bad stretches?
A very interesting read that created a paradox in my mind.
I've always said the "run from hell" is out there. I never really thought of it as being "due". Nothing can be "due", but if it is true that the run from hell is "out there", then logic would lead me to believe that each spin of the wheel brings it closer.
So, is it "due" but we just don't know when OR is it not due since nothing can be due? I better wheelbarrow some more soil!
Sam
Sorry Gizmo,
But none of us believe either you or Spike when it comes to your baseless claims.
Neither of you offer a shread of proof that you can walk on water or guess better than probability would dictate on the outside ECs.
When pressed most people will believe the history of the wheel according to encyclopedias and not the gospel of Spike and Gizmo.
-Herb :)
Quote from: Herb6 on May 25, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
Sorry Gizmo,
But none of us believe either you or Spike when it comes to your baseless claims.
Neither of you offer a shread of proof that you can walk on water or guess better than probability would dictate on the outside ECs.
When pressed most people will believe the history of the wheel according to encyclopedias and not the gospel of Spike and Gizmo.
-Herb :)
I'm sorry but your disbelief only gives me a mild case of heartburn. It in no way forces me to experience a "run from hell" as Sam just put it. Not only can I get out on the beginning of any bad runs I can just chose to ignore Herb's monotonous droning with his pathetic mantra. Herb, you are almost a "run from hell" yourself, with all do respect.
So my conclusion must be that Herb won't help us with the math. All he ever has is unconfirmed illusions of his opinion's importance to him. Here is the forever solution to this endless dilemma. The math must be in error. It confirms nothing about anything. Herb can't make an argument regarding this thread. If he ever tried to he could no longer demonstrate his religious belief in his theory. He'd be shut down forever. First as a pathetic VB player then as a math wimp in a goose stepping Nazi costume. The guy is batting a 1000, in baseball parlance.
Herb´s statements are like:
man can´t fly under any circumstances, because he is heavier than air.
some day a way will be found.
(btw.: I did, but nobody believes :laugh: )
Sorry Winkel, but the proof is solid, even if you don't understand it.
Is there proof that you can't avoid a strong down turn? That you must bet through it? That you must lose all that adds up mathematically for you to lose at a time like that? Where's that proof. If you can't prove that then you are just another scammer full of hot air. HERB? Where's your proof?
Is there math that explains delaying bad stretches? Why can't a savvy player just simply not participate in bad stretches?>>>
Thats another way of saying 'can the random be read well enough to know when to bet and when not to bet'.
Herb says <<'Sorry Winkel, but the proof is solid'>>>
Herb is explaining he is still math constipated and will have none of it.
Quote from: Spike! on May 25, 2010, 06:46:58 PM
Herb is explaining he is still math constipated and will have none of it.
Is that a way of saying that the Zen of Herbism is unapproachable? Until you brown nose him in prostrations of temperance he will not plop down a splash of moral wisdom from atop his high perch. The guy has a porcelain pony installed on top of Mt Everest, and there he sits.
Is there proof that you can't avoid a strong down turn? That you must bet through it?>>>
The 'proof' Herb has is that there is no bet selection other than betting random choices against random outcomes and therefore just because you avoid, by luck, a down turn today, you for sure will hit one tomorrow. He will never acknowledge anything different because he wants 'proof' first, in the form of a test, so he can reverse engineer it and make it his own. Then he'll disappear, never to be heard from again.. POOF!
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi-love-cartoons.com%2Fsnags%2Fclipart%2FGarfield%2FGarfield-magician-1.jpg&hash=40dfa207e02ec4361d2baf29fb15fd4d7fa9016b)
Quote from: Herb6 on May 25, 2010, 06:29:44 PM
Sorry Winkel, but the proof is solid, even if you don't understand it.
everytime I read your posts I get sick.
"Herbism" is a nice word and marks stupidity by endless repeating nonsense
In my opinion from all I know, it would be possible to beat ECs, just not with the methods that just about everyone attempts to use. No I havent figured it out yet, and may never will, but I do believe it's possible. At this stage I believe the best road to take for this is either precognition or predicting waves like in nolinks.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf (nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf) - You cant beat the mathematics of the game, but you can overcome it if you predictions are accurate enough. So the focus should be on accuracy - anyone that thinks otherwise doesnt know yet. Thing is it doesnt appear people in general are trying NEW things. They just use the old fallacies just repackaged in a different way.
You cant beat the mathematics of the game, but you can overcome it if you predictions are accurate enough. >>>
If you have enough accurate guesses, the math changes from being in favor of the casino, to being in your favor. All the math that previously applied to the casino, now applies to you. Thats a good thing, by the way. You now become the casino. The more you play, the more insulated you become from ever being behind. Even if you have an occasional bad session, the good sessions you have behind you completely overwhelm the losses.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F8366284%2F2%2Fistockphoto_8366284-open-bank-vault.jpg&hash=8d712af487a89cb5be5689ecf3bb39e0b78fa2d0)
Quote from: Steve on May 25, 2010, 07:55:37 PM
So the focus should be on accuracy ...
I agree completely. I've noticed that my effectiveness goes through changes. It's caused by the nature of randomness. At times it comes down to streaks of it working or it not working. I like to act on those streaks.
Gizmo/Spike, in 99.999999% of cases I've seen with players acting on streaks, there are no legitimate streaks they are acting on, or perhaps their understanding of streaks is incorrect - ie gamblers fallacy.
In any event, streaks can and do occur, but the questions are:
1. is it just plain probability, or
2. is there more to it, to the point where streaks can be predicted and utilized to increase the accuracy of predictions.
I believe it's a bit of both, being that yes of course streaks are going to occur in any event. That's what's probable, or perhaps inevitable. I'm telling you what you are looking is enormously part of energy research, being that there is no such thing as random, and everything has a structure. For this one publication I suggest is "Living Energies" by Callum Coats - it explains part of the order and natural flow of energy.
Herb with all due respect, I believe you are for the most part correct about how roulette can and cannot be beaten, albeit perhaps not enlightened to other things. It is all science. It is legitimate, but not yet fully understood. Principles of it are applied in my system, and now recently even in my computers so I know first hand it is real, but still my research has a long way to go. No, I cannot beat EC bets, but the potential is there.The patterns my system look at are still ballistic in nature that you would identify with, but everything is done on a much deeper level. It is not hocus pocus - it is real and legitimate science that in the simplest terms possible is about defining patterns through self-referencing.
Anyway spike/gizmo, you really need to have a good look at nolinks.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf (nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf) - I believe this should be the focus of your efforts. Everything is part of a cycle, and cycles do repeat. Another way of saying it is everything affects everything. Another way is saying every planet's gravity affects every planet to varying degrees - cycles will repeat but not in the exact way, at least in any perceivable time frame. The same principles and truths that apply to one part of the universe applies to all others because the rules that affect everything are universal.
Ultimately beating roulette is about increasing accuracy of predictions. It cant be done with methods just about every rng player uses. To achieve it, and I do believe it is possible, will be a result of understanding that everything, whether it be events or whatever, is a result of energy interaction - and understanding how to correlate the energy interactions to a practical format to predict so-called random events. Nothing is random, and there is always order - always cause and effect - to state otherwise is saying things happen without reason or cause.
Consider the stock market though. What factors determine market movements? Ultimately human CHOICE. What affects that? Trace it back, and you will understand the market is actual BIOLOGICAL in nature. The ups affect the downs and downs affect the ups, then factor in countless other things, but focus on what the most significant variables are. Every day the market repeats history in a zillion ways, and yes I do trade and have for 15-20 years, but it is not my passion. Trace "randomness" back, and at it's primordial level, it is also energy interactions and thus in theory at least is predictable. In a practical sense, I have managed to figure out legitimate long term patterns on so-called random wheels, but it cannot be applied to RNG as there is no real wheel/ball. Every method I've ever developed for roulette is ultimately ballistic in nature - just parts of it are on a very different level.
Steve,
I simply don't believe your claims. Sorry. I can quite effectively see what's real and what's not. I'm amazed that you would make such and outrageous claim like that because it effects your credibility. Nobody can beat the ECs.
I simply don't believe your claims. Sorry. I can quite effectively see what's real and what's not.>>>
LOL! I made a bet with myself and I won! Herb is more predictable than the sun coming up. His blinders are so super glued to his face that nothing can remove them..
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.deafadvocacy.org%2Fblog%2Fuploaded_images%2Fblinders-712828.jpg&hash=5e2df7906ca923029d1643b30c632d5cade984a2)
QuoteI simply don't believe your claims. Sorry. I can quite effectively see what's real and what's not. I'm amazed that you would make such and outrageous claim like that because it effects your credibility. Nobody can beat the ECs.
Did you read my post? I said I am not able to beat ECs, but I believe it is possible, just not with the traditional methods players try.
As for you effectively seeing what's real and what's not, again with all due respect, you dont know everything. The day you think something is impossible is the day you make it impossible, for you. What I'm talking about is real and legitimate science, and if you knew more you would understand this. I dont deal with hocus pocus. Perhaps you should have a read of "living energies" and research into nolinks.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf (nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinner.com/waves.pdf) then decide if I dont know what I'm talking about, or if you still have more to learn. We all have more to learn, but I've been working on energy research for 20 or so years. Nothing is ever random, and real wheels are exploitable well beyond traditional advantage play.
Nothing is random, and there is always order>>>
I think there is a loose order in the true random of a roueltte wheel. Not so a computer RNG, I see no order there that can be exploited.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_1V7wnZxPqok%2FRnykdCcAdhI%2FAAAAAAAAFIE%2F3P3W80v5hYo%2Fs400%2Fcartoon%2Broulette.jpg&hash=c9c3a6cde9f489f57c561d991c780b1fbf23e847)
QuoteAs for you effectively seeing what's real and what's not, again with all due respect, you dont know everything. The day you think something is impossible is the day you make it impossible, for you. What I'm talking about is real and legitimate science, and if you knew more you would understand this.
Sorry Steve,
But when it pertains to roulette, I sure as hell do. :)
again with all due respect, you dont know everything.>>>
Steve, have you ever actully spoken with Herb on the phone like I have? He really DOES know everything, as he will proceed to tell you. Anything you say back is met with uproarious laughter. You think I'm joking?
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.clipartguide.com%2F_named_clipart_images%2F0511-0702-2316-5906_Man_Laughing_Har%21_Har%21_Har%21_clipart_image.jpg&hash=d30d77c860c64af28aac69a1ab58bef79cc096ef)
But when it pertains to roulette, I sure as hell do. (know everything)>>>
See? How can you argue with that? He's happy in his ignorance, which is fine with me.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fme414.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F05%2Fignorance.jpg&hash=c3ce99b9e12533ddb51f9dc4b84c1628825c94f4)
Randomness in regard to roulette is in my view an untamable beast.
It is randomness that creates the resulting math by which the game overcomes all attempts to tame it.
IMO it is an irrepressible force, and to try and second guess what random will do for this period or that period is an exercise in futility.
As has been stated by various members here, to try and skip over bad runs will result in missing out on wins just as much as missing out on losses. So in time guessing when to bet and when not to bet is no different to guessing what to bet. Randomness by its very nature will blithely circumvent both.
The absolute strength of random's relentless attack on our bankrolls is wholly contained within its unpredictability. But to be unpredictable random must for the most part behave in a disorderly fashion.
To bring about its disorderly array, random is obliged to sporadically clump numbers together; if it did not do this the game would be easily beaten. It is within this clumping of numbers together that every one of us seeks our victories.
You can name it as you please - law of the third, wheel bias, pattern recognition, grand universal theory, numerology, educated guessing, whatever... they all attempt the same thing – to jump on the clump.
And therein lays its only possible weakness...clumpiness. But we can't predict it. We know the numbers will clump, but we don't know when, how many, or how long. May be we just need to surrender to the fact that there will be periods of sustained clumping and the only math that matters then is that you have more chips on the table at that time....
So that leaves three words to beat roulette... LET IT RIDE.
-------------------------------------------------------------
For the full details and pricing of my amazing system, "Jump On The Clump" please check my website, nolinks . letitride . com ... :punish: ;D ;D ;D
QuoteBut when it pertains to roulette, I sure as hell do.
Herb it is very ignorant and naive to claim and actually think you know everything. Nobody ever knows everything. There is so much you, and all of us, just dont know. It is counterproductive for anyone to believe they know everything. Pride is a barrier to progress. I have nothing even remotely against you personally, and am not in the least offended by you not believing what I've said because I know you are actually wrong. But so be it, no problem with agreeing to disagree.
Herb it is very ignorant and naive to claim and actually think you know everything. Nobody ever knows everything. There is so much you, and all of us, just dont know.>>>
Igrorance is bliss, Steve.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Ftylerhollywood.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F03%2Fignorance_21.jpg&hash=2d56b03e6ef03a30d549a25eac6dd1fc17a187b6)
>>But to be unpredictable random must for the most part behave in a disorderly fashion.>>
Disorderly to who? Speak for yourself..
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fstartheory.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F03%2Fchaos-field.jpg&hash=09d68af15c553d655f4e8c5643f794bdfffeb0aa)
Quote from: Spike! on May 25, 2010, 10:03:43 PM
>>But to be unpredictable random must for the most part behave in a disorderly fashion.>>
Disorderly to who? Speak for yourself..
I just did.
For myself it is disorderly...
It does not go 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 (orderly), it goes 1-16-4-28-8-28-13-2-0(disorderly). ::)
Herb, EVERYTHING follows a waveform - EVERYTHING. The universe is not brick and mortar like we often perceive. Think of the universe for what it is - a symphony of harmonic waveforms and energy interactions. There is no such thing as random - including roulette spins. The question is whether or not spins can be predicted with enough accuracy to overcome the house edge, even with "randomized" release points and scatter. The answer is absolutely YES - long term trends do occur, and can be utilized for prediction. Clearly you dont believe me, and again so be it, but it is absolutely real.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer
Quote from: Steve
Nothing is random, and there is always order - always cause and effect - to state otherwise is saying things happen without reason or cause.
I once thought that there might be a reason, like how the numbers are arranged on the wheel. The truth is things are random by plain old coincidence. You take a run of reds, 3,16,27,18,34,5,18,23,... etc. It just circumstantial coincidence. Otherwise the wheel mechanism is flawed in some way. Wheel bias was a problem but it is no longer an issue. At least from a standpoint of effectively capitalizing on it. Roulette is random. The numbers come up randomly. Some of us can construct data fields that are sets of differing coincidences. While a run on reds might be inactive a run of odd numbers might be dominating. Same goes for hot numbers, zeros sleeping, and dozens going absent for a while. It's just phenomenon. It's not caused by angels in a third heaven. There are no ball and slot attractions caused by a law of the universe principle. And even if it was possible it's irrelevant to the randomness trackers. You can't see something that you are not looking at. To see randomness you have to be looking at it.
Prove it. Put up some real money and let's see if anyone here has guts to prove they can win on the ECs.
Anybody?
And that's my point. :)
-Herb
QuoteWheel bias was a problem but it is no longer an issue.
Every wheel has a bias to some degree, and it varies under specific conditions. It is far more common than you think.
Gizmo what you described about "randomness" is the wrong way of looking at it. Believe me you want to be looking at waves within waves within waves etc etc. The universe is dynamic, and roulette is part of it.
Quote from: Steve on May 25, 2010, 10:26:15 PM
Every wheel has a bias to some degree, and it varies under specific conditions. It is far more common than you think.
Gizmo what you described about "randomness" is the wrong way of looking at it. Believe me you want to be looking at waves within waves within waves etc etc. The universe is dynamic, and roulette is part of it.
You can use any symbolism, correlation, or parallel cognition process you want to. In the end you are telling me to look at the changes that occur, that you can speculate on in a favorable way. You are just telling me to learn how to make a bet selection based on some spectral formation that is familiar to you. I wonder if you can refer to all this as reading wave forms?
Get this. And please try to be open minded for a moment. I suspect that you understand these wave principles. That you know how to use them to make bet selections and because of them. Now. Can these bet selections have times when using them works very well? If that's true then do these bet selection methods also have times when the bets lose very badly? And last, are there times when the bet selections just don't produce effective results or great losses? I was just wondering.
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi499.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr351%2Fskakus%2Fwaves.jpg&hash=94ddd2b7bc97e6ea9cf9e53709d7eceeb2facc9f)
...and the next number is? >:D
QuoteCan these bet selections have times when using them works very well? If that's true then do these bet selection methods also have times when the bets lose very badly? And last, are there times when the bet selections just don't produce effective results or great losses? I was just wondering.
Anything can happen in the short term. Analysis takes a lot of spins but conditions are always changing, and so are patterns. Sure there are varied results over say 10 spins or so, but this is very short term and you cant look at that. If you look at say 10,000 spins and the results, the results you can expect over another 10,000 spins are roughly the same.
PS- Bombus, it's #32.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.>>>
Right now I'm at the being ridiculed stage..
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Ffoolocracy.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fstoning-300x239.png&hash=d22bd7ad516c26f1fb070c22165a1b42afc88828)
let's see if anyone here has guts to prove they can win on the ECs.>>>
I prove it to the casino every time I play. They seem to have no interest in reverse engineering it, either. Works for me..
Herb is the nerd in the middle:
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fnolinks.offthemarkcartoons.com%2Fcartoons%2F2004-08-01.gif&hash=c502b8e9f05f5b85918d80d52270318655383b35)
Quote from: Steve on May 25, 2010, 11:05:28 PM
PS- Bombus, it's #32.
C R A P!...how did you do that? Damned 32 took my $200 off the table!