Welcome! You have entered [Talking] at 3:21 pm
[Talking]: gizmotron has entered at 3:21 pm
[gizmotron] 3:25 pm: Red winner, +100
[gizmotron] 3:26 pm: bet black at 10
[gizmotron] 3:26 pm: 2 winner +110
[gizmotron] 3:28 pm: it's hard to keep up
I fell behind. I'm trying to enter spins in my chart, post here in chat, analyze the play before the next spin, and then place the next bets before it's too late.
The only way to do this is to have someone call out spins at a pace that fits all this. I had no problem doing this with students. My practice software produces fair RNG spins that are not targeting any players. If someone wanted to post spins, any spins, one at a time then they could post them on a chat window. That software can also detect tampering with a sequence using the MD5 hash to prove that the spins used in the test where actually never altered for the chat.
I'll show you how to do this if you want to be the spin person.
It's time for this to get done.
P.S. It would be far better to do this here in the forum and not on the chat. Here the results are published.
Here's an example:
This: 36,32,1,25,3,14,33,16,13,2,14,27,36, thirteen spins
After they are loaded in my charting program the md5 hash for them is:
Spin 1 to 12 of the thirteen = yCE+C8OaTC75rjqt4jFQ5A==
Spin 1 to 13 of the thirteen = upKwVnH5mRzIKzi8GUHrTA==
So after a full session is done I would publish the same spin sequence and the hash should be identical. If the sequence is varied in any way then the hash will not match up. This is the latest technology to verify that casinos are not tampering with their RNG spins. They publish the hash for the next 5 to 8 spins before they are used by the casino. If the hash changes for those 5 to 8 spins then the casino changed the numbers after the bets were placed but before the spins finished. I thought it was such a good idea I added it to my teaching software.
50 Spins:
36,32,1,25,3,14,33,16,13,2,14,27,36,11,7,00,3,10,2,25,36,35,14,14,12,13,14,24,17,4,24,8,28,34,22,27,13,11,00,26,16,29,24,17,7,27,9,29,21,3,
Spin 1 to 50 of the 50 = QYazgkK7XfDS3ZzlBKk4Og==
All hash functions are also processed through a base64 encoder so that publishing them on the internet will not be corrupted by characters not handled by all browsers and all platforms.
Anyone can volunteer to be the dealer for this. It can be done over several days. Others can play too. All that is needed is someone to post spins. The thread will take care of itself.
OK, I'll start. Perhaps an example of playing will demonstrate how easy this is.
Here are the first 18 spins.
33,14,6,15,32,8,3,30,11,24,29,10,3,11,23,9,7,10,
Now I will make bets and let the software pick the next spins.
Next bet, Low, ( 1 to 18) at $10
Next spin = 33, I lost that one.
next bet = 20 on 1 to 12 and 20 on 13 to 24
14, winner, now I'm at +10
next bet 20 on #1 column and 20 on #3 column
next spin = 21, winner, now I'm at +30
-----------------------------------------------
next bet = 10 on (1 to 18)
next spin = 12, winner, now I'm at +40
It's really that simple, anyone can play. We just need someone to call out the spins.
Hi Gizmotron.
Thank you for sharing this information.
James.
$40 + in a very short space of time. I can see the concept though, going up and down, but winning far more than you loose,always going up in profit. Is that correct?
James.
Quote from: ReDsQuaD on March 25, 2011, 09:48:03 AM
$40 + in a very short space of time. I can see the concept though, going up and down, but winning far more than you lose,always going up in profit. Is that correct?
James.
When it's working good, yes. You can reach your goal very rapidly when bet selections work with situations that remain consistent. So you combine situational awareness with things that tend to continue.
I was just demonstrating how a demo here might work. Some people here have wanted this for years. I already described what would be seen from several real demonstrations. They would have the same kind of results as real sessions from several visits to the casinos.
People would have huge disagreements on what it all actually meant. They would have beliefs of luck, failure, proves nothing, or demands. Many would require a full explanation for each bet. It's really kind of funny too. They would make demands that a working system must be given to them. That's because there is this much disclosed already on the internet. And everyone knows that the internet is free.
Bravo Gizmo!
Posting spins is going to take forever, there must be a more efficient way to do this. I'll give it some thought, but right now it's Friday evening and I'm going out for a beer or 3. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Mike on March 25, 2011, 03:22:31 PM
Bravo Gizmo!
Posting spins is going to take forever, there must be a more efficient way to do this. I'll give it some thought, but right now it's Friday evening and I'm going out for a beer or 3. :thumbsup:
Me too, it's the weekend and I'm playing for real. It should take about 2 minutes per spin. That's with posting and everything. That's 30 spins per hour. So an hour here and an hour there and we can get 100 spin sessions in real easy. It does not have to be endless. Like I said, it's possible to validate a 100 spin sequence with the md5 hash function. This is all set up and ready to go as soon as someone acts as the dealer. Just an hour at a time is good enough.
Ok, I can post spins a little later this evening for an hour or so. I assume you want spins from a real wheel? I have a few thousand from Dublinbet.
Don't you think it would be quicker to do this in the chat room?
There's a SHA-256 hash generator at nolinks://nolinks.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator. (nolinks://nolinks.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator.) I'll post the hash of 100 spins and then post spins one at a time, then you can check that I haven't been cheating you. :)
Quote from: Mike on March 26, 2011, 02:05:36 PM
Ok, I can post spins a little later this evening for an hour or so. I assume you want spins from a real wheel? I have a few thousand from Dublinbet.
Don't you think it would be quicker to do this in the chat room?
There's a SHA-256 hash generator at nolinks://nolinks.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator. (nolinks://nolinks.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator.) I'll post the hash of 100 spins and then post spins one at a time, then you can check that I haven't been cheating you. :)
Wow, you get it. No need to teach Mike. What time tonight? It's 6:32 pm GMT right now.
BTW, can you provide the first 18 spins in a comma delimited format with no empty spaces added?
Like this: 4,16,23,28,0,17, etc...
It would be nice to do the hash function on a comma delimited list too. No line breaks or return characters either. Just spins and commas please.
Say 8:00 pm GMT?
BTW, I make it 5:39 GMT now and I live in the UK. Actually it's the start of British Summertime tonight so the clocks are going forward.
Here is a test:
00,11,8,1,27,12,15,1,22,00,24,13,26,36,17,2,6,12,5,7,23,24,5,23,19,32,7,32,21,11,4,35,13,3,7,10,33,21,20,23,7,00,20,19,33,31,10,10,4,22,
Hash: d2a6f85abf8c16999df4a495470c8f47936d0d70981f9f64cd3bbacee3883eb4
Cool, its in a coding that is internet friendly.
What do you get for a test of a hash for theses 50 spins?
Quote from: Mike on March 26, 2011, 02:39:47 PM
Say 8:00 pm GMT?
BTW, I make it 5:39 GMT now and I live in the UK. Actually it's the start of British Summertime tonight so the clocks are going forward.
Oh, I forgot about that. My clocks went forward a week or two ago.
So in about a little more than two hours from now?
d2a6f85abf8c16999df4a495470c8f47936d0d70981f9f64cd3bbacee3883eb4 :thumbsup:
So initially you want 18 spins at once yes? Then I'll just add one spin at a time but including all previous spins in each post, that way it will be easier to get the hash after the 100 spins.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 26, 2011, 02:44:36 PM
So in about a little more than two hours from now?
Yep, 2 hours 14 minutes, to be precise. :)
Later...
Quote from: Mike on March 26, 2011, 02:45:14 PM
d2a6f85abf8c16999df4a495470c8f47936d0d70981f9f64cd3bbacee3883eb4 :thumbsup:
So initially you want 18 spins at once yes? Then I'll just add one spin at a time but including all previous spins in each post, that way it will be easier to get the hash after the 100 spins.
Not necessary that way. Just post each spin after that. I'll enter this into my charting program. After the spins are used it will create that comma delimited list.
I have a problem. I was volunteered to help my neighbor move in a few hours. I'll just bet they come knocking in the next few hours. I was hog tied into this a week ago. I can't get out of it. And its raining too. We will try. We will get this together somehow. 100 spins should take about three hours. Perhaps you can hand off the spins to someone else so that they can post them. Then you can read this whenever you have time. The hash still confirms the sequence accuracy.
Good news, they are going to move tomorrow. But I still have to go out for about two to three hours. Maybe I'll be back in time, I hope so.
You think it will take that long? I can't spare more than about an hour and half. Doing it in the chat room will be quicker I'm sure. Never mind if you can't do it tonight, perhaps tomorrow would suit you better?
I have some thoughts about making a web page for this kind of thing, it will save a lot of time and people will be able to do a demo whenever it suits them.
I deliberately play at crowded slow tables. It gives me an almost full two minutes to think about my bets and get them down between spins. Chat works but I can't keep up with a live table. In fact all my training was done at GMail chat.
Let's use the chat here and then post the results in this thread. Is there a way to keep a record of the chat? Gmail makes it's own archives.
Looks like I'll be back in time. good
Ok Gizmo, here are the first 18 spins followed by the hash for the remaining 100.
10,13,35,30,4,26,8,21,28,29,31,32,27,20,31,1,18,35
d6f82d4ae86c6cd05697fac9f5eae54378ea8c662e8565a305debfae03ff2e73
Just walked in the door.
First bet, 10 units on Black
18 (-10)
No, even. :)
Place your bets. :whistle:
10 on column 2 to 35 and 10 on column 3 to 36, that's columns 2 and 3.
I didn't see that you got this going again.
30 (+0)
Place your bets.
Is this single zero or double zero? It guess it doesn't matter because I'm only betting on the outside.
20 on Black
Single zero.
22 (+20)
10 and 10 on mid and high dozens.
9 (+0)
40 and 40 on mid and high dozens.
2 (-80)
OK then!
130 & 130 on column 1 and column 3
8 (-340) What's the house limit? :)
What an absolute laugh. It repeated the pattern perfectly that it should lose. I bet against the pattern. I had a few wins then I jumped right into a three step progression. It killed me off. I'm done for now. Great session. Let that be a lesson to you. This is all you can get from trend betting.
Actually, I'm mostly interested in writing that computer algorithm. If I fail at that I will quit playing Roulette.
If it works I'll encrypt the source code and put a timeout on the demo software. I guess I'll have to hard wire a key into the internet or people will just back set the clock on their computers.
Should be a very interesting year.
GMT I saw you were betting very often on dozen m/h and dozen l/m
I think ,it is not new for you, but in these cases you better bet 60 high and 20 sixline 13/18 or 60 low
and 20 sixline 19/24.I only play single zero with En Prison.
Mike has pm me for a demonstration.You are also welcome to watch a demonstration.Dublinbet casino has not my
preference, because the minimum bets for the outside chances are to high.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
What an absolute laugh. It repeated the pattern perfectly that it should lose. I bet against the pattern. I had a few wins then I jumped right into a three step progression. It killed me off. I'm done for now. Great session. Let that be a lesson to you. This is all you can get from trend betting.
Actually, I'm mostly interested in writing that computer algorithm. If I fail at that I will quit playing Roulette.
If it works I'll encrypt the source code and put a timeout on the demo software. I guess I'll have to hard wire a key into the internet or people will just back set the clock on their computers.
Should be a very interesting year.
Hi Gizmotron.
So after that result, would you cut your losses there and stop?
James.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
What an absolute laugh. It repeated the pattern perfectly that it should lose. I bet against the pattern. I had a few wins then I jumped right into a three step progression. It killed me off. I'm done for now. Great session. Let that be a lesson to you. This is all you can get from trend betting.
Sorry i am just a bit confused. Were you betting that it was going to loose? Or did you just face a big loss that rarley happens?
Thanks,
James.
Quote from: ReDsQuaD on March 27, 2011, 06:59:31 PM
Sorry I am just a bit confused. Were you betting that it was going to lose? Or did you just face a big loss that rarley happens?
Thanks,
James.
I just bet straight into a loss situation that almost always wins in the rare moment. It was pure stupid. But it happens. To dig out of this loss will take a few good wins. There is no way that I advocate this as the wildest that anyone should get. I just don't give a damn. The algorithm is only thing that interests me now. I love flapping my beak on the internet. Certainly you must know that by now. Mike put me on to my holy quest. It's a good guest.
A true athlete gets to experience a great moment in time. I've done that. I want beating Roulette to be a great moment like that. I will do anything to have this moment again.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 07:24:49 PM
I just bet straight into a loss situation that almost always wins in the rare moment. It was pure stupid. But it happens. To dig out of this loss will take a few good wins. There is no way that I advocate this as the wildest that anyone should get. I just don't give a damn.
Am I right saying its something that happens Rarley, therefore nothing big to worry about?
James.
Mike, i did not intentionally intend to mess with your mind. You did set out to do a real test. But you inspired me along the way. You really did inspire me to try to write the algorithm. That is almost mind boggling. I did this before with the MTML algorithm. That cost me severely with the edge of full burnt out mind capacity. And that lasted for several years. I know the price of genius. I don't want to go there. It really hurts. But I'm going to do this thing. It's really fun to press the flesh. It's really fun to blow your own mind if the goal is really obtainable. This is a real big deal. A Roulette forum will never be a big deal. But for a brief moment in time a big deal might just come to hang out at at a place that could never ever become a big deal. I just love surfing in killer waves under the Golden Gate. I want this wave too.
Heres to me, the ego idiot.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 07:47:04 PM
Heres to me, the ego idiot.
You're not an idiot. Before you do a public test, you have to be absolutely sure what your EV is. And once you have a positive EV for every scenerio, you'll find public tests strangely repugnant..
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 07:24:49 PM
I just bet straight into a loss situation that almost always wins in the rare moment.
Always wins? ALWAYS WINS? There is absolutely no pattern, no sequence, no possible scenerio when dealing with random numbers, that anything has a better chance of winning than any other time. I thought you read all 16,000 of the posts on GG? How in god's name did you come to the conclusion that there is ever a time when anything 'almost always wins?' You didn't do enough testing, obviously. Believe me, there are times when something appears to work for a very long time, but thats an illusion. Nothing is dependable with random numbers, you can count on nothing being equal. Thats its flaw, thats its Achilles heel. Thats how it can be beat. Why do you think I don't play RNG's? They aren't true random. You talk about being able to read random. Time to start over. For starters, go and read my thread 'Want your mind Blown' that I posted a few hours ago. Read it twice. Its important.
Cheese do not use EV in the wrong way.Only pokerplayers use a personal EV.EV+ means the player is a winner and EV- means the player is a loser. In poker terms a rabbit,a fish or a banana.
Quote from: cheese on March 28, 2011, 02:37:14 AM
Always wins? ALWAYS WINS? There is absolutely no pattern, no sequence, no possible scenerio when dealing with random numbers, that anything has a better chance of winning than any other time.
The straight up odds for this to win in three spins is 95%. It's a very rare situation that the first time you try it that you would hit that 5% for a loss. You must add how many times do you hit a 5% loss combo in the first three spins of 100 spins. That doesn't happen very often. So you multiple 5% times whatever those odds are. For me that's very rare. And that very rare thing happened right in front of everyone.
No need to invoke god's name here. I know how rare this is. Are you satisfied or do we need to do all the arithmetic down to the exact odds? Your blatant accusation that I don't do enough testing is founded in your own personal baloney. What are the odds of that? Randomness can always be counted on to be dependable. Anything can happen at any time. Any killer sequence can happen at any time. If you don't count on that then you are only fooling yourself.
Quote from: cheese on March 28, 2011, 02:37:14 AM
Why do you think I don't play RNG's? They aren't true random.
I missed this earlier. So you can win on a real wheel playing ECs but not an RNG?
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 07:47:04 PM
Mike, I did not intentionally intend to mess with your mind. You did set out to do a real test. But you inspired me along the way. You really did inspire me to try to write the algorithm. That is almost mind boggling.
Glad I could help. :)
Quote from: schoenpoetser on March 28, 2011, 08:09:03 AM
Cheese do not use EV in the wrong way.Only pokerplayers use a personal EV.
Puleeze, BJ players practically invented EV. I was figuring EV when you were in short pants. You can find the EV of any game if you know the edge you have.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 28, 2011, 11:51:12 AM
It's a very rare situation that the first time you try it that you would hit that 5% for a loss.
Good grief, listen to what you're saying. Do you also believe because there were 10 reds in a row, the chance that the next spin will be black is more than 50/50? You can't predict the next spin of random outcomes by calling some rare and some typical, it doesn't work. Its like you don't understand the nature of random at all.
Quote from: cheese on March 28, 2011, 08:32:32 PM
Good grief, listen to what you're saying. Do you also believe because there were 10 reds in a row, the chance that the next spin will be black is more than 50/50? You can't predict the next spin of random outcomes by calling some rare and some typical, it doesn't work. Its like you don't understand the nature of random at all.
Shouldn't that be "gadzooks Batman?" You are still just as stupid as Spike is when it comes to odds. Yet another lame coincidence. The probability that Cheese and Spike are the same person grows exponentially each day. The odds were 15/1000 or .0015 that it would happen. That's rare for the game of Roulette.
But dig this folks. Spike thinks his game within a game is in how he places the bets. So here is an example of that. You bet 20 on the middle dozen and 10 on the upper dozen. If you hit the 20 you have +30. That's a 50/50 payoff for a 63% chance of losing nothing. You see if the 10 hits then you break even and gain or lose nothing. That's a game within the game. Now try to figure out Spike's game. I think he likes the streets and the double streets. Now you have a clue to work from.
I just noticed that wimpy Cheese (Spike) has tried to make a point in several threads. He's kind of repetitious that way, almost anal. But did you notice that he decided to miss interpret my point about what rare means? He did this just to get himself an easy valid point. Only one huge problem with that. His original premise is wrong. So he has a great point appearing to be right with a wrong supposition. He's king of the weenie arguments. I doubt if he has anything to say about the odds. You know, my real reason for making that bet.
Have you ever asked Spike to explain his 72% win rate. Now there's an easy argument.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 29, 2011, 11:57:39 AM
I think he likes the streets and the double streets. Now you have a clue to work from.
Nope, he likes just the EC's, sorry. Always has and always will.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 29, 2011, 01:12:17 PM
He did this just to get himself an easy valid point. Only one huge problem with that. His original premise is wrong.
OK, I'll bite. Explain how its wrong.
Quote from: cheese on March 29, 2011, 07:55:35 PM
OK, I'll bite. Explain how its wrong.
No, you are an idiot. Spending time on you is fly paper.
Quote from: cheese on March 29, 2011, 07:53:55 PM
Nope, he likes just the EC's, sorry. Always has and always will.
No, you are an idiot. Spending time on you is fly paper.
Still trying to do damage control aren't you.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 29, 2011, 08:17:57 PM
Still trying to do damage control aren't you.
You say Spike plays something he doesn't, just correcting you. Spike has said for years all he plays is the EC's, find where he ever said different.
Quote from: cheese on March 29, 2011, 08:46:28 PM
You say Spike plays something he doesn't, just correcting you. Spike has said for years all he plays is the EC's, find where he ever said different.
OK CHEESE HEAD! Please explain this for us all. How come you know what Spike has said and has not said? How do you know that he only plays the EC's? He has never admitted to anyone what he does. How come you pretend to know what he does or does not do?
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 29, 2011, 08:55:02 PM
How come you know what Spike has said and has not said? How do you know that he only plays the EC's?
Spike and I are very close, we often wear the same clothes. What he knows, I know. And vice versa..
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 27, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
Actually, I'm mostly interested in writing that computer algorithm. If I fail at that I will quit playing Roulette.
Gizmo,
When MauiSunset was here, he wanted to allow up to 3 attempts at making a profit. How do you feel about having another crack at it?
With a little luck, you might even break even. :)
I can't believe you gave up so easily. Or maybe I can...
Quote from: Mike on April 07, 2011, 02:26:01 PM
Gizmo,
When MauiSunset was here, he wanted to allow up to 3 attempts at making a profit. How do you feel about having another crack at it?
With a little luck, you might even break even. :)
I can't believe you gave up so easily. Or maybe I can...
I didn't give up, I quit. I was going to blow out a fast win with a progression only it blew up in my face. That made me laugh. Oh well. That worked too. I wanted to get that demo behind me because I realized that I could teach a computer to do what many students had failed to do on their own.
I was right too. My algorithm is proceeding as expected. I don't have to answer questions. I just plod along breaking it down into situational awareness conditions. It's all logical and simple actually. A live demo is what you will get anyway. It will be me, my thinking, when you run as many demos as you want. Only you control the spin entry point. You can verify the accuracy of each test. What more could you want?
Quote from: Gizmotron on April 07, 2011, 02:50:25 PM
I didn't give up, I quit. I was going to blow out a fast win with a progression only it blew up in my face. That made me laugh. Oh well. That worked too.
Worked for me. It was exactly what I was expecting. People who use progressions have little understanding of the game. They usually get what they deserve, as you found out. A progression changes nothing, its an illusion.
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 09:38:06 PM
Worked for me. It was exactly what I was expecting. People who use progressions have little understanding of the game. They usually get what they deserve, as you found out. A progression changes nothing, its an illusion.
Spoken like a true fundamentalist. When something has a one in one thousand chance of failing you see that as something expected. Were you able to determine that I was only going to use it maybe three or four times? Oh, that's right, you have that special gift, educated guessing. Stuck like glue. ...more fly paper. :haha:
Quote from: cheese on April 07, 2011, 09:38:06 PM
People who use progressions have little understanding of the game. They usually get what they deserve, as you found out. A progression changes nothing, its an illusion.
If they think a progression will give them some kind of edge, then I have to agree. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Mike on April 08, 2011, 11:25:57 AM
If they think a progression will give them some kind of edge, then I have to agree. :thumbsup:
Let's see if you have any clues. I have spent four years talking about using two level flat betting. That's where I bet the table minimum or an attack level that fits my bankroll. So then I do a demo two weeks ago and I use a three step progression between spins 4 to 6 of 100. From just that people have dismissed four years of posting history. They have not mentioned once that I don't use progressions. Nobody found this demonstration to be fishy. In fact they see it as the full and complete truth. Gads are you guys credulous.
To answer your conclusion, I agree. A progression will not give you a long term edge if it is utilized for every spin.
Quote from: Gizmotron on April 08, 2011, 11:43:30 AM
A progression will not give you a long term edge if it is utilized for every spin.
It doesn't even give you a short term edge, how could it. All it does in magnify a flawed bet selection, as you so eloquently demonstrated in your 'demo' on how not to beat roulette. The ONLY time a progression works in your favor, is if you have a bet selection that gives you the edge. And if you have that, what the heck would you need a progression for?