I have made a system that is based in a lot of rules of roulette.
Sleepers , repeaters , progression when we win .
I did a few tests just to see how it was going.
I desided to test with sessions .
Session ends when we are In a Profit OR when we lose 300 chips. So 300 chips is the BR needed for this system.
I did quick 6 sessions.
RESULTS
session 1 = +24 in 1 spin
session 2 = +20 in 26 spins
session 3 = +12 in 2 spins
session 4 = +24 in 1 spin
session 5 = +21 in 7 spins
session 6 = +24 in 1 spin
Total Profit =125 chips in 38 spins
I decided to make a system that will have REASONS of WHY to be winning.
Ofcource all those reasons are based on the GF probability+Maths.
I would like to see HOW is gonna perform in let s say 100 sessions...and if it is + why not see how ir performs in 200 and then in 300 ETC.
I know that we are ALL in here against a game that is very hard to break! Maybe it can NEVER been broken!
But we are all here for the same perpose!!!
The animal that we need to beat is this game and not try beating each other...don t you all agree?
If we are trying to make the unpossible to possible it is natural that with all this fight with the braionstorming and the testing we are becoming angree, tired , obsessioned !
PLEASE LETS TAKE ALL THOSE BAD FEELINGS OUT OF THE TABLE AND LET S ALL BE UNITED IN TRYING TO DO OUR BEST IN MAKING A SOLID SYSTEM (AS POSSIBLE AS THIS COULD BE)
I think that this system is a great oportunity to unite us all !
AFTER ALL IF WE WILL FIND - MAKE A WAY OF MAKING MONEY FROM ROULETTE ITS FOR OUR BENEFIT!
I don t think that argues have space when a lot of good and ambitious ppl are tryng to unite all their strengths for a perpose that will make everyone happy!
The reasons behind the system
We all know that when a number hasn t show up for a lot of spins it is luckily to be seen in the next spins(GF? ok lets see...) This RULE by its own CAN NOT win in the long run because there are a lot of systems based on only sleepers and they all fail in the Long Run. ( SAD BUT TRUE )
We all know that after XXX spins almost all numbers will have equal hits (GF? well let s see!)
So from the above Rules we have that :
If a number is sleeping ...in some point it has to wake up!
When it will wake up it will have to compete with the other numbers that has hit more times...so it will hit more because it needs to make ballance ( all this is probabilty theory and GF in roulette...well lets see!)
So when the sleeper will wake UP...probability say that it will become a REPEATER! In order to make the Ballance against the other numbers,...because at the time that it was sleeping the other numbers were hitting more!
Wouldn t it be great when this number after waking up ,having more chips on it because it is luckily that it will hit soon to make the ballance???( well let s see)
When we win we have chips to support the next spins....so a progression in my opinion is good when it is done after a WIN and not after a LOSS!
ALL THE ABOVE REASONS ARE IN THE SYSTEM !
So lets see what we can do by combining a lot of Probability and Maths togeather ...will it also be a GF??? Maybe yes...but I think it is worth TESTING !
The tests that I did are very limited in spins...yes I know....but aren t the resaults AMAZING???
THE SYSTEM
We track all the spins and when we have left with 12 numbers that haven t HIT the session STARTS!(In about 35-40 spins average...so not so much time to wait)
We Bet on all those 12 numbers with 1 chip on them.
If we will win in the spins 1 or 2 we are in a new Profit so we finish the session.
If we are not in profit we are still betting all the 12 numbers(those numbers will never leave in the session)
When 1 number will be HIT (and we not in a new profit) we will bet this number in the next spins with +1 more chip on it...so total 2 chips and continue betting 1 chip on the others.
We add 1 more chip in eny number that will be HIT....(The reason I posted above in the reasons of why to win)
That s is....we continue doing the same until we are in a PROFIT or lose the 300 chips Br.
Please don t spoil this hopefully fruitfull topic with agruments and fights.
I did my best to make a system to help us make money....
Can you please back me up with tests in sessions for all of us to see if we have something good or bad(like all the other GF systems)?
Thank you.
Here are my sessions
(//)
Anything that has slept a long time then shows it's face is in my opinion a good bet. :)
Thank you Kingspin!
Your opinion is very respected to me because I know that you are exploring Roulette a lot of years. :give_rose:
This is the last test for tonight as i will go to sleep .
(//)
This is really interesting... Im trying it... It was good until now... Lets see : :thumbsup:
Thanks Psolaris, I like your attitude.
This is an old system that was coded in roulette xtreme a few years ago. I know because I played it and remembered it worked pretty well until I got busted on the table one night and never went back to it.
cd
I want to give an insight to your idea. Those numbers are sleepers so i would give a twist to when starting playing. You could wait till 1 of those 12 numbers has a hit. It is the way to know the event you are chasing may have awaken. Then you start playing them as you suggest until you are in plus +1 or more then you close session and start a new one with another set of 12 numbers.
Cheers,
Carlos.
Thank you for your very nice words ppl. :)
All I did was I tryied to think hard to find a way that can have some reasons but the most good part is that I need all of us to be united...like 1 punch ! Fighting against Roulette.
As I can see we when we want to be bad we are bad BUT when we need to be good we are GOOD!
Please lets continue having this polite behaviour...the only thing that this behaviour will do is HELP in making better systems.
Ok as for Clothdog.
1st of all thenk you for spending the time to reply.
2nd I am very glad that this system was tested before and as you say it was going preety well. (I don t know IF it was tested with MY exact rules of play)
and 3d It is colmpetely natural that we will lose 1 session sometimes....after all it is Roulette !
Even if an APer has a very good wheel infront of him(and we are speaking here about a REAL phisics and maths advantage) he can also lose sometimes....BUT in the Long Run he will certently be UP!
This is the expectation that we must have with all the systems! Sometimes they will lose all the BR but in the long run may be winners....this is what we need to test here!
SO I AM NOT WORRIED IF THIS SYSTEM LOST 1 TIME BEFORE....IT S NATURAL . WHAT I CARE IS MAKE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN....AND AS YOU HAVE SEEN IN ONLY 39 SPINS (7SESSIONS) I HAVE ALREADY WON THE 1/2 OF THE BR!
ps. IF with those rules the system will not be a Long Run winner, I have in mind a modification...but this is NOT for now becayse the system performs very well till now.....
Please help in testing....I will make some more tests later too.
ps. capranta thanks for your idea but I personaly don t prefare it because as you saw from my tests most of the sessions won in the 1st spin!!!!!!!! I wouldn t like to lose this. ;)
Ok 2 more winning sessions sessions
session 8= + 15 chips
session 9= +28 chips
I am sorry but I will stop testing for now because I feel a little strainge because I am the ONLY one that I am making the tests... ???
I would love to see some test from you guys too :thumbsup:
Thank you
(//)
To sum up my results of testing.
+202 chips in 55 spins ....9sessions
AMAZING don t ya think ! I have never seen a system before winning 202 chips in just 55 spins !
we must all see If those amazing results are based on accurasy of prediction of the numbers(bet selection) based on the rules + good progression wherever and whenever is needed....OR if those 202 chips in 55 spins were just pure LUCK !
Let me remind you please that some sessions will be also lose....
WHAT WE CARE IS MAKING MONEY IN THE LONG RUN. :give_heart:
I'm trying it as well and like you, quite a few hits on the first betting spin.
Quote from: Psolaras link=topic=18482. msg132460#msg132460 date=1301050953
To sum up my results of testing.
+202 chips in 55 spins . . . . 9sessions
AMAZING don t ya think ! I have never seen a system before winning 202 chips in just 55 spins !
we must all see If those amazing results are based on accurasy of prediction of the numbers(bet selection) based on the rules + good progression wherever and whenever is needed. . . . OR if those 202 chips in 55 spins were just pure LUCK !
Let me remind you please that some sessions will be also lose. . . .
WHAT WE CARE IS MAKING MONEY IN THE LONG RUN. :give_heart:
Hi! What program you use to track the numbers? New here. . :smile:
Psolaras:this idea I have described also on the forum.You note the spins till there are 12 numbers left.These 12 numbers form a dozen with 12 random numbers.The 1/3 rule says it happens on average once in 36 spins.For this special dozen it happens on average in 3^24 spins.Wager on this dozen has a small risk.The danger is that this dozen also contents very cold numbers.I do not play this strategy very often.Normally I wait for more triggers.
If you play it as a system you shall bust on the house edge!!!
dear psolaras
your days are numbered. your system is as old as our civilization itself. unless you tweak to make it dynamic, your system with rigid static sector will soon belly up to change your dresscode to push you to the "stone age". just ask Hermes, Albalaha, GLC etc -- roulette greatmind of this firum-- will definitely show you the shortcut way to blackhole!
happy hunting.
thanks
catalyst
Ok thanks to catalist I will not participate any longer in this Topic... I just asked for polite posts..was that so hard?
I will not lock this Topic...its urs now, do whatever you like with it, abandon it or continue testing its ur personal choise.
I decided to register in a R forum in order to have feedback and help to each other...As I realised working alone is better than posting ur ideas in here.....
I wish happy seaching to all of you ppl
Ps. I was so polite and look what happened....there is no salvation in this forum exept if the rude members will be banned.
For the followers of this Topic I can t resist posting those AMAZING results !
session 10=+30 in 60 spins
session 11=+65 in 40 spins
session 12=+24 in 1 spin
session 13=+35 in 5 spins
session 14=+10 in 6 spins
session 15=+55 in 7 spins
TOTAL PROFIT = 417 CHIPS IN 174 SPINS (15 SESSIONS)
Here are the sessions 10-15
(//)
BTW in all those 15 sessions the BIGGEST DOWN inside a session was -170 chips.
So we never lost a session because the Br that I suggested in the begining was 300 chips.
As we can see from those tests MAYBE a Br of 200 chips is enough....
so in 15 session of play , even if we will lose 2 sessions in a row we are still in profit.
Thank you
It will be nice to have some help in the tests to make a conclusion faster.
Ps. Please remember that by lossing some sessions doesn t mean that we lost the WAR! It means that we just lost a BATTLE...the WAR is the one that we have to win .(Long Run)
More tests!
session 16=+23 in 4 spins
session 17=+24 in 1 spin
session 18=+24 in 1 spin
session 19=+24 in 1 spin
session 20=+24 in 1 spin
TOTAL PROFIT= 536 chips in 182 spins (20 sessions)
Here are the sessions 16-20
(//)
Its quite funny that 20 ppl are watching the Topic but noone wants to help in testing . LoL
So what do you need??? Do you need me to complete all the testing and you will be watching how it goes like you are watching a show? :D
I know that Roulette system making and testing has make us all tired all those weeks/months/years.
But if we won t fight? How are we gonne possibly win?
By fighting each other no winning system can come up. :)
WoW!!!!
Record! 23 ppl are all watching the Topic silently! :haha:
If the essence of this system is the greater likelihood of a newly awoken number to be a repeat, over all other numbers, why not simply bet on new numbers after for example, 37 spins, ignoring the sleepers altogether? Seems to me that your system might fail due to it being 2 systems: a bet on sleepers system + a bet on newly hit numbers system. Sticking to a single system would allow a much longer progression, since you'd be betting on 1, 2, 3 numbers, rather than on 12, 13, 14...
Hi Psolaras.
First of all, thank you for sharing yourf system. I don't want to be the guy who is only lurking and don't contribute at all.
I've been thinking of using something similar. The difference is that as soon as I get my 12 ' non-hit' numbers I would start betting on them using progression 1-1-2-3-5-8-11-17.
But I don't want to confuse people and mess up your thread. Lets focus on your method.
As soon as I get home I will post more info, what I like about this system
thanks kenio but ur way would make a big loss when we will lose.(thanks for being so nice and polite)
Jeromin we can t rely only on sleepers or only on repeaters.we have to use both.
I have seen too many systems goind very well at the begining only to fail after like all systems...
I m just trying not to end my passion of winning this game...I also know very very good that the math -2.7 disadvantage is beating all the maths systems.....but what can we do??? we are trying to make systems the best we can...
If not then there is no reason for a member to be here.....
The key is all of us here in this community to be UNITED!!!!!!
Only all togeather we can make something nice....fighting just make us go behind instead of forward
Hey Guys, I'm at work and don't have much time; but I'd like to contribute what I can, so 2 sessions:
14 spins, +19
5 spins, +12
Sam
thank you birdhands
My Internet is acting up and I'm on my phone right now. I'll hopefully be able to test some spins later tonight.
Psolaras, are you using real wheel numbers or RNG for your tests.
All the systems that i am making and testing are always REAL spins.
hi Psolaras
i did not mean to hurt you. but your system has been tested for many years by many in this forum. alone betting on sleepers which is rigid could not pave the way for long term benefit. if you search previous posts in this forum, you will now that sooner you will feel gravitational pull into blackhole from that even P"solar"as energy would not be spared. probably you are a newbie and newbie always find a "holy grail" quickly and then spiralling down to blackhole-unable to escape. I have seen so many death stars.
i have one suggestion for you that you make it random instead of rigid static.
wish you a very good luck and happy hunting.
thanks
catalyst
I wonder if it would be lucrative to just play 3 betting spins at a time, using a positive progression. Win on spin 1: +24, win on spin 2: +12, win on spin 3: break even, lose on spin 3: -36.
I'll look into this and report back about the progression.
Sam
CATALIST if you will read all my posts you will see that I have nothing to do with a newby. :)
I have one suggestion for you that you make it random instead of rigid static.
This thing that you posted doesn t help in anyway ! Static or random are both leading to the same ... -2.7!!!!!
So from this post that you made...should I also consider- make the conclusion that you are a newby??????
If you have in mind that roulette can t be beaten then I would suggest never to post anything else in here.Because this forum is for members that have the hope and ambition to make money from this game.EVEN IF THAT WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE we are here to search,explore,engineer,test.
I know very well that till now the only thing that has a real advantage to win in opnly with AP VB or BIAS.
But I don t have the patience to expore all my casino wheels and play after 1 month...lol Simply because this wheel can very easy be moved ot the conditions can change or anything.....
What I need to find is a method that can be played in any wheel that is producing a Random outcome......
Logic and Maths tell that it can t be......but I haven t yet lost my mood in searching.
Thank you
Quote from: Psolaras on March 24, 2011, 09:12:50 PM
I have made a system that is based in a lot of rules of roulette.
Sleepers , repeaters , progression when we win .
The only problem with sleepers, you can never guarantee it will wake up. Many times i have had colums or dozens sleep for 14 times, some times 20.
Betting against sleepers is just a gamble, one day it will clean you out, its simply a matter of time.
I am not here to piss on your parade, i am sharing my experience with sleepers.
James.
I'm back and lets go straight to the business.
At this moment I show you an example with couple crucial informations.
We start with our tracking
1. 31
2. 13
3. 20
4. 13
5. 29
6. 7
7. 2
8. 23
9. 27
10. 24
11. 31
12. 24
13. 18
14. 30
15. 8
16. 24
17. 12
18. 33
19. 20
20. 17
21. 6
22. 0
23. 5
24. 24
25. 17
26. 9
27. 25
28. 22
29. 21
30. 22
31. 3
32. 30
33. 22
34. 28
35. 5
36. 12
37. 29
38. 35
39. 9
-----------------------------
After 39 spins we finally got our 'non-hit' sector. 1-4-10-11-14-15-16-19-26-32-34-36
According to math, the expected value in this case ( 12 numbers sector in 39 spins) is 12. 65
This means the in 39 spins our sector should be hit 12 times. We got 0 hits.
Lets go a little bit deeper with our math and take standard deviaton into our consideration.
-68% of statistics fall between the expected value minus one standard deviation and the expected value plus one standard deviation
-95% of outcomes fall between the expected value and Plus/minus 2 standard deviations.
-99. 7% of outcome fall between the expected value and plus/minus 3 standard deviations – we will use this one.
In our example SD=[(12/37) X (25/37) X 39] ^0. 5
SD=2. 92
With our sector we fall with 4-SD. There is only one way to make it up all the way to our EV or around 1-SD. Our sector will be hitting shortly.
Lets continue our game. Now we start betting on our sector.
No. P/L
0 -12 units
19 +12 units
According to the rules we take the profit and finish our session.
But the best part is coming. During this game, 326 spins were recorded. Here is the outcome. After those 326 spins, our sector was hit 105 times.
The expected value for 12 numbers in 326 spins is . . . . . . . . . 105. 72. Exactly like with the perfect wheel.
For those who dont recommend betting on sleepers :punish:
Thanks kenio for your Math lecture :thumbsup:
Are you a math teacher or something?
There is a page in the Turbo Genius site that he shows a system tested in 10k spins!
He tested this system we 2 deferent ways.
way1= betting randomly
way2=betting sleepers
The graph of those 10k spins were completelly deferent .....the random betting were big UPS and big DOWNS and in the end a loser...wile the sleepers betting were big UPS,small DOWNS and in the end a big WINNER !!!! And we are talking about the SAme METHOD WITH JUST DEFERENT BET SELECTION .
Here is the page
nolinks://turbogenius.webs.com/possibleholygrail.htm (nolinks://turbogenius.webs.com/possibleholygrail.htm)
RedQuad this isn t a method of betting on the sleepers ONLY ! because when the sleeper is waking up we are continuing betting on it-so we are also betting repeaters- and with deferent chip valieu
Quote from: kenio on March 25, 2011, 01:23:11 PM
Hi Psolaras.
First of all, thank you for sharing yourf system. I don't want to be the guy who is only lurking and don't contribute at all.
I've been thinking of using something similar. The difference is that as soon as I get my 12 ' non-hit' numbers I would start betting on them using progression 1-1-2-3-5-8-11-17.
But I don't want to confuse people and mess up your thread. Lets focus on your method.
As soon as I get home I will post more info, what I like about this system
I can tell you from testing over 300 sessions, that the 8 step progression you are using ( tested on 13 sleepers, though, not 12 ) fails 1-2% of the time. On six steps the failures increase to about 5%. The first 3 hit about 75% of the time.
And psolaras, you are right: most people in this forum are lazy and won't test anything. I have posted elsewhere a 100 session sample of my tests ( nearly 5000 spins ), using Kon-Fu-Sed's software for G.U.T. It takes groups of fifty numbers and shows the sleepers, repeaters, double repeaters and so on, as they happen. Very useful. Got no reaction, probably because it's a testing tool, not a fully worked out system, even though it's very useful for getting ideas on and trying out any system involving sleepers and repeats.
Jeromin
thanks for ur reply Jeromin :thumbsup:
If ppl aren t helping each other then what is the advantage of being a member in a forum....
Quote from: Psolaras on March 26, 2011, 08:35:39 AM
Thanks kenio for your Math lecture :thumbsup:
Are you a math teacher or something?
There is a page in the Turbo Genius site that he shows a system tested in 10k spins!
He tested this system we 2 deferent ways.
way1= betting randomly
way2=betting sleepers
The graph of those 10k spins were completelly deferent .....the random betting were big UPS and big DOWNS and in the end a loser...wile the sleepers betting were big UPS,small DOWNS and in the end a big WINNER !!!! And we are talking about the SAme METHOD WITH JUST DEFERENT BET SELECTION .
I guess you could test it on 1,000,000 RNG numbers and 1,000,000 real wheel spins and if the results hold, submit it as conclusive prove that the wheel does, indeed, have memory ;)
Let s hope about it ;) man
No, I'm not a math teacher. Actually probability ( efective value, standard deviations) are the only thing which make sense to me, so why not use it.
The problem with all the systems, and all the tests I found on this forum is, that people give up as soon as thier system/strategy loose for te first time.
I realy like what Psolaras wrote:
" Please remember that by lossing some sessions doesn t mean that we lost the WAR! It means that we just lost a BATTLE. . . the WAR is the one that we have to win . (Long Run) "
He is now +536 units in profit. That means that, he can have 2 losing sessions and he still will be close to BE.
Now, what if the losing session would appear as the first one? How many people would still continue playing this system?
It looks very promising and thx 4 the effort but unless there is reliable data after gazilion of spins. . .
And to kenio: very neat math work but standard deviation for under 1k events? how about 100k? The basic error is that yes in a large number of spins your expected value should fall in a very narrow range but how r u going to profit
from that?. Show me that. Lots of people tried and failed. Play any strategy using inside bets, pray 4 luck,
get decent br, prepare to take occasional loss, stop at right moment and start over again.
I will run your system when i have time @ tell u how soon it crashed. Sorry 4 voice of reason.
One more thing: wishful thinking is very contagious and this is common 4 most roulette forums.
This is just a observation from a newbie i hope with some common sense.
I think that we should concentrate our efforts to come up with effective short term hit and run STRATEGY
not system.
Good day 4 everybody.
Kenio I agree with all of what you said and thanks!
Robeenhuut you posted:
I think that we should concentrate our efforts to come up with effective short term hit and run STRATEGY
not system.
I am sorry my friend mut this is certently the WRONG WRONG way.....simply because the HIT and RUN does not work in the long run and this is 100% sure !!!!
A nice member has given a very succecfull example about it !!!
He said that driving the car 100 miles per day or running the car for 10 miles the day leads to the same possibility for an accident !!!!
Simply because the miles are adding up.... ;)
One of my basic rules is,play after a virtual lost and stop after a hit.This kind of hit and run is very successful.Draw the lost and the win in a diagram and you will see it is wave line.The amplitude and the wave length are important for your decisions.
schoenpoetser thank you for ur advice and observation.
Please don t get me wrong ,I will just tell you my opinion about virtual losses.
Bu betting after a virtual loss we are losing the winning oportunities that will come when wins will hit after the wins....
so its exactly the same thing as playing consistently without waiting for a virtual loss....because the wins-loss ratio will not be improved
But this is just my opinion...let s hope that one day when we will make a sold system-method the virtual loss concept will help . ;)
I had a really bad session.
After 34 spins I got my sector 1-7-8-9-13-16-17-19-22-27-29-33
stake No. P/L
x1 24 -12
4 -24
10 -36
26 -48
26 -60
16 -36
x2 35 -60
23 -84
12 -108
21 -132
21 -156
25 -180
19 -132
x3 23 -168
4 -204
12 -240
1 -168
x4 36 - 216
14 -264
2 -312
------------------------------- At this point i close our session with negative balance. But i decided to keep going.
17 -216
x5 7 -276
4 -336
19 -216
x6 4 -288
19 -144
x7 27 +24 END of session.
The reason why I kept betting after being down -312 units, is that we had our sector selected after only 34 spins, when usually it's around 40 spins. That means that we didn't have many repeaters during thoe 34 spins.
We either have to find our sector more carefully, or have a bigger bankroll.
Nice Kenio.
We have to test to see the best Br ,stop loss etc.
I want to report that I have tested 30 sessions and I had 2 losses......(with my way of stop loss 300 chips...)...I am still +290 chips....
The results are still possitive but we must tweek the system because as we all know in the LR it s gonna lose......
Kenio makes a good point: maybe we should wait for a minimum of 40 or 50 spins with 12 unhit numbers. It wouldn't be much harder to do.
Kenio, it seems you were playing a progression there in your test. You should have only moved the 16 to a 2 unit bet, not all 12 numbers. Or am I confused?
Sam
Quote from: kenio on March 26, 2011, 12:20:03 PM
I had a really bad session.
After 34 spins I got my sector 1-7-8-9-13-16-17-19-22-27-29-33
stake No. P/L
x1 24 -12
4 -24
10 -36
26 -48
26 -60
16 -36
x2 35 -60
23 -84
12 -108
21 -132
21 -156
25 -180
19 -132
x3 23 -168
4 -204
12 -240
1 -168
x4 36 - 216
14 -264
2 -312
------------------------------- At this point I close our session with negative balance. But I decided to keep going.
17 -216
x5 7 -276
4 -336
19 -216
x6 4 -288
19 -144
x7 27 +24 END of session.
The reason why I kept betting after being down -312 units, is that we had our sector selected after only 34 spins, when usually it's around 40 spins. That means that we didn't have many repeaters during thoe 34 spins.
We either have to find our sector more carefully, or have a bigger bankroll.
The more I look at this the more I realize that it might have been a winning session with Psolaris' rules. My understanding is that we keep flat betting all the sleepers and apply a positive progression to the sleepers once they hit.
In this session I think we should have dropped the first recorded number and kept spinning in the hopes of getting 12 unhit numbers after 40 or more spins. In fact, we could just keep dropping earlier numbers until we have a selection of say, 60 numbers with 12 sleepers and then bet with far more confidence.
Everybody should keep in mind that what we are looking at here is a dozen that has slept for 40 spins. Can you imagine the betting rush that would happen if 1-12 had not hit in 40 spins? But that is no different from what we are working with here. I think we need to find out just how long 12 numbers can possibly sleep and then form our betting strategy around that as a worst case scenario.
Sam
Quote from: birdhands link=topic=18482. msg132611#msg132611 date=1301154134. You should have only moved the 16 to a 2 unit bet, not all 12 numbers. Or am I confused
You are correct. I've re-read the first post in this thread again, and found out that I interptetted it wrong.
When 1 number will be HIT (and we not in a new profit) we will bet this number in the next spins with +1 more chip on it. . . so total 2 chips and continue betting 1 chip on the others.
Let me correct my last example
yes kenio now you have it right ! :thumbsup:
Nathan Detroit we don t care about negativityh here...we are just intrested in tweeks,tests and ideas..thanks
I personaly know the maths of roulette...so don t worry about it...I am just trying to do my best...if I will give up NOTHING will happen...if I will continue the maybe SOMTHING can happen....
I think that u are an AP and if u are I respeact that a lot !
I too have played VB with succees about some years ago.....but nowdays -at least in my casinos- there is no wheel with good condictions that alow a margin with VB.And because I do not want to stop playing roulette at all I am just trying to make a solid system.....If I will not find one I will not play for real so don t worry I will not gonna lose any money. :)
Thanks again for ur consern!
and NOONE fall for this kind of stuff....we are just trying to make solid systems.....
My question and I am sorry for that is WHAT ARE Y.O.U doing here>????? :)
If you think that you are the sheep dog and we are the sheeps and you are our guardian then thanks BUT noone vote for you to be our guardian.....so go and search for hours to find a tilted wheel with managable scatter and make ur observations and pray that all the contitions that u observed will continue to folow or that the next dealer will not mess things up because he is spining the wheel with a lot deferent speeds and mess up the scatter...wile we will be here and making systems.... : ;)
I wish all the best!!!!!
Yeah u got lucky thats all Probably f u took your loss and started the next day u could be ahead
It doesnt prove anything. Just take your money or loss and run and hope 4 better tomorrow.
So far it looks good after 3k spins so u cant blame me 4 trying.
Good day or night 4 everybody.
Robeenhuut thanks for feedback but please don t say again the phraze HIT AN RUN :)
Simply because its the worst GF ever !
Nothing enables us to win when we will be again the next time in the casino....
Playing consistently or playing hit and run is EXACLTY the same thing !!!!!!
In time you will realise this too. :give_rose:
Did some checking. Won 5 or 6 sessions then bust - more than 300 loss. It seems that the deeper we get into a session the smaller is the chance to win. Win to loss ratio is not good in this progression. Usually f we win early we r
ahead 24 units. Stop loss level at 300 its 2 big. So in my opinion its only workable in 3,4 steps.
And like somebody said it earlier increased betting on repeats will speed up disaster. Hit it as i said early and collect $$$. One or 2 winning sessions. Do not go deep.
It seems that the deeper we get into a session the smaller is the chance to win.
I will agree with that.
Finally we agree on something. I would only play 3,4 spins in each session. It may make sense to watch 4 repeats while waiting for sleeping #. The idea is 2 wait for change in the trend (wait 4 12# to finally appear) and ride it.
The longer in theory we ride it the sooner we loose advantage of betting on it. But the initial # of events its still 2 small to be sure. Hopefully i make sense. Its cruel game.
3-4 spins is very little......
anyway.Its an OK system so anyone can make any modifications he likes.
How do you play your sessions.Is it Dublinbet casino with live roulette or RNG?.Do you use the real sequences from Wiesbadener spielclub?do you use a pseudo RNG? Real money or play money.Please give more information
Here is a correct version of this system
stake No. P/L correct
x1 24 -12 -12
4 -24 -24
10 -36 -36
26 -48 -48
26 -60 -60
16 -36 -36
x2 35 -60 -49
23 -84 -62
12 -108 -75
21 -132 -88
21 -156 -101
25 -180 -114
19 -132 -92
x3 23 -168 -105
4 -204 -119
12 -240 -133
1 -168 -111
x4 36 - 216 -126
14 -264 -141
2 -312 -156
--------------------------------------------------------------
17 -216 -135
x5 7 -276 -151
4 -336 -167
19 -216 -111
x6 4 -288 -128
19 -144 -37
x7 27 +24 -19
-----------------------------------------------
24 -24
14 -43
18 -62
36 -81
2 -100
5 -119
6 -138
1 -85
22 -69
18 -90
20 -111
4 -132
3 -153
15 -174
9 -159
19 -37
21 -60
0 -83
26 -106
24 -129
11 -152
25 -175
9 -126
16 -78
10 -103
32 -128
11 -153
30 -178
23 -228
14 -253
------------------------------------------- At this poin I didn't have more data to finish the test.
Lets resume what we got so far. After 91 spins ( including 34 spins from selecting our sector) we got hit 13 times.
EV for (12 numbers in 91 spins) is. . 29. 51.
Our sector has been hit way below it - 13 times.
SD=4. 46 3xSD=13. 38
EV - 3xSD= 16. 38
We are still below 3xSD. Shortly our sector starts hitting to get closer to EV or at least 1xSD.
But there is another issue.
Below you can see our sector and how many times particular number has been hit.
1. -2hits; 7. -0hits; 8. -0hits; 9. -2hits; 13. -0hits; 16. -2hits; 17. -1hits; 19. -4hits; 22. -1hit; 27. -1hits; 29. -0hits;
33. -0hits
As we can see number 19 has been hit 4 times,which is over its EV (EV for 1 number in 91spins =2. 45)
We can atnticipate that this number will not help us that much to get our sector closer to its EV.
When it hits, it helps us a lot as we have 5chips on it. But when other "0-hit number" hits our profit is short of those 4 extra chips.
This way we get deeper and deeper with our negative balance, while some numbers in our sector are not cold anymore.
Hope that's make sense.
It makes a perfect sense. Win to loss ratio works to our disadvantage. The deeper we go the smaller chance we have.
I would wait lets say 100 spins to come up with 12 sleepers and start with some progression just betting on these # 2 show up. Betting on sleepers and hot # at the same time doesnt make sense.
I am using the real sequences from Wiesbadener ALWAYS with ANY system.
Kenio You use EV not in the correct way.E(expected) V(alue) has a mathematical definition.What do you mean with EV. With EV+ a pokerplayer will say he is winning.
Quote from: schoenpoetser link=topic=18482. msg132826#msg132826 date=1301258349
Kenio You use EV not in the correct way. E(expected) V(alue) has a mathematical definition. What do you mean with EV. With EV+ a pokerplayer will say he is winning.
Expected Value is number of trials x winning probability.
Eg. we bet 12 numbers on single zero roulette. Probability of our success is 12/37.
After 100 spins EV= 100 x 12/37
EV= 32. 43
The mathematical EV is for the Frens roulette 1,35 for ECs, 2,7 for all other chances and for special bets
about 2,0. The EV for double zero wheels 5,4. The 5 number bet has the worst EV.
Hello,
I tested 27 sessions just for fun.
25 winners for +440 units
2 losers for-605
Net result -165, which probably is quite close to -2,7%
Anyone surprised???
Mind you, it only is 27 sessions and that is very little. Which brings me to ask again: <<Are all RX coders dead???>>. This method would be so simple to code for someone with the skills. You could then test a very large numbers of sessions quite rapidly.
iNSIDER
Quote from: insidebet link=topic=18482.msg132894#msg132894 date=1301283881
Hello,
I tested 27 sessions just for fun.
25 winners for +440 units
2 losers for-605
Net result -165, which probably is quite close to -2,7%
Anyone surprised???
Mind you, it only is 27 sessions and that is very little. Which brings me to ask again: <<Are all RX coders dead???>>. This method would be so simple to code for someone with the skills. You could then test a very large numbers of sessions quite rapidly.
iNSIDER
hi psolaras
???
heaven and earth never agreed better to frame a wheel for sleepers!
your efforts to bring dead sleepers into life are appreciated.
thanks
catalyst
Hi Insider
If the lost of 165 units is 2,7% the total bets of 27 sessions is 6111 units. On average every session you bet 226 units.
I think you don`t believe this.
For an exact computation you must know the number of spins of every session and the number of units of every spin.
Every system give on the long run a lost of 2,7% of the total bet.You can not beat the house edge or EV.
Ok schoenpoetser.
So what is ur advice? Should we all stop playing Roulette? Or what?
Psolares I visit my casino more than 35 years with much pleasure.I have developed a personal skill.There is a difference how I play roulette in the casino and on internet.Special for internet I have a successful strategy.In my opinion the best way to play successful is a strategy based on maths and systems By studying small samples up to 250 spins I have learned very much about the features of random rows.
Play random is playing without common sense. My strategy is universal for all kinds of roulette.
Insidebet,
I had similar results. Again it comes to sleepers/spins which exceeds the number of bet, above -300, noted by the founder of the system.
John
So schoenpoetser have you posted ur method here?
Or are you one of the many that critisise the methods of the others and just claim that all are $hit exept their (imaginery) method?
I like discus roulette.I have a lot of experience and mathematical knowledge of the roulette.Especially the maths are very poor.I try to give sensible advice.I study the different systems of members and point out the weakness.My excelprograms are download very much. I can describe systems but not my strategy.Everywhere on the forum you can find my basic rules for a strategy.Interested members can watch my free demonstrations on internet.
I have a power point program to learn to play the roulette. Three hours theory of the maths and about three hours to explain wellknown systems and at least a demonstration.
With full respect for other ideas I participate in discussions.
I do not argue AP,VB,DS and tilted and biased wheels.
I study the different systems of members and point out the weakness.
we all know where are the weeknesses in any system...LoL
The point is how to make a system with the less weeknesses in order to be a LR winner
Some systemdesigners make basic mistakes,because they have not the mathematical knowledge.
For example you have to systems.One system needs 12 units on the inside bets.The second system use one unit on Red.What is the best system.I shall explain in a following reply.
schoenpoetser,
I sent you a private message.
Thanks,
John
Quote from: Psolaras on March 28, 2011, 11:43:20 AM
So schoenpoetser have you posted ur method here?
Or are you one of the many that critisise the methods of the others and just claim that all are $hit exept their (imaginery) method?
hi psolaras
you are right. i like your tune to say that mathematical verbiage brought by some members only show their expertise in math but not a contribution in the system. i have seen lot of stars with mathematical density could not escape gravitational pull of blackhole. these are dead people with E=MC2 :diablo:
thanks
catalyst
Catalyst do you have the answer of my question?
To judge systems you need a little sense of mathematics.To understand VB you must learn a lot about kinematics.On the forum I have never saw a demonstration of VB or other methods.
Long run test of systems have always the same results.
Some time ago I have posted my stats playing a RNG roulette.My conclusion you did not see them.
Hi Guys,
How you doing. Hope everybody good. Lets get down to the business.
I read the article, understand the system very well. I will do the test but just need one clarification.
300$ is stop loss correct?
I will use random.org for the test.
post the results back by Thursday evening.
Regards
allin
are you ----? it will be a day of days.
300 units will be your bankroll and stoploss.
thanks
catalyst
thanks catalyst, noted on your point.
Hey everybody, I started a new thread about an adaptation of this system, called spitting mongoose. I made it separate out of respect for this thread, but I'd appreciate if you would check it out. I think it utilizes the best parts of this approach while downplaying its weaknesses.
Sam
Have u guys tested "possible holy grail" - yeah i know the title method by turbogenius? Its about playing sleeping numbers after watching 3 cycles of spins. Somebody posted link on one of the forums.
hxxp: turbogenius. webs. com/possibleholygrail. htm
After 20k spins (140 sessions) 1200units ahead betting 1unit.
Looks very constant with upward trend. Just changed stop loss 2 150 units.
Robinhood thanks for the pm.I have studied the system of turbogenius.It seems an interested system.The test results are very promising.Though it has my doubts.Also this system cannot beat the EV.Zero or/and double zero are house traps.The system use numbers ,which have not fallen for a long time.The chance for cold numbers is very large.The length of a test run depends on the possibilities of the Chance.Numbers have a possibility of 37/38 outcomes To take conclusions a test sample of 10K is to small.The EC has a possibility of two outcomes and then is a test sample of 250 in my opinion enough
Second the system is only suitable for very big samples.After a three hour visit to the casino you cannot continue your sample the next day.
My final conclusion is,this system seems good but it has no practice value
Quote from: Robeenhuut on March 30, 2011, 04:01:27 AM
Have u guys tested "possible holy grail" - yeah I know the title method by turbogenius? Its about playing sleeping numbers after watching 3 cycles of spins. Somebody posted link on one of the forums.
hxxp: turbogenius. webs. com/possibleholygrail. htm
After 20k spins (140 sessions) 1200units ahead betting 1unit.
Looks very constant with upward trend. Just changed stop loss 2 150 units.
Looks very interesting. So you've decided to play it with a stop loss?Did you see the drawdowns can go over 1000 units? That's a pretty big bankroll if no stop loss. But then again, without the stop loss will the system hold up?
Sam
All this is very interesting.
Can anyone get the file dgt of this system for Roulette Xtreme?
Thanks :give_heart:
Quote from: Psolaras on March 25, 2011, 02:33:09 PM
Jeromin we can t rely only on sleepers or only on repeaters.we have to use both.
Ideas and intuitions are great but need to be followed up with testing. We would advance greatly if all definitive statements in this forum were backed up with extensive testing.
I did a quick test using part of my 400 sessions of 49 spins each, with Kon-Fu-Sed's software,( that no one here seems interested in, even though it allows to easily test many sleeper/repeats systems ) and it seems ( pending further testing ) that starting from spin 18, betting on the sleepers that wake up to repeat, and only on them, yields a win quickly enough. It has the advantage over covering 12 sleepers ( a system I'm testing independently, albeit with 13 sleepers ) that one is only betting on 1, 2,3, up to about 5 numbers at a time, allowing for long progressions.
I will probably go for skipping the first few spins, as the wins don't often come ( so far ) immediately after the numbers wake up and for a conservative stop loss, since it does not seem necessary to wait too long and progressions, as we know, are deceptive.
Jeromin
And here's a preliminary result. 50 sessions, covering 2450 spins.
number of spins required till a hit:
18;7;15;15;12;11;8;11;16;4;11;4;5;5;15;17;9;7;11;7;10;7;11;12;8;14;9;2;7;17;20;
1;6;6;8;12;7;13;12;17;12;15;7;5;4;1;4;17;8;7.
Not once did it go over the set of 49 spins and only one has it reached 20 spins. Of course another factor is the number of sleepers that wake up before hitting. The more wake up the more bets need to be placed and as soon as bets need to be double, tripling comes soon after. 22% go over 12 spins, about 1 in 5. Maybe a stop loss should be reached before having to double.
Jeromin
Thanks for your testing, Jeromin. I'm glad we have a coder here.
"starting from spin 18, betting on the sleepers that wake up to repeat, and only on them"
Do you mean tracking 18 spins, then betting on each sleeper after it wakes?
Sam
PS are you interested in coding turbogenius' idea?
400 sessions x 49 spins= 19,600 spins Not bad.
So Jeromin, let me make sure I have this right:
5
36
23
14
5
30
11
24
7
31
22
24
11
1
6
17
29
30 18th spin (repeat)
3 sleeper, now bet 1 unit on 3
17
35 sleeper, now betting 1 unit on 3, 35
36
22
9 sleeper, now betting 1 unit on 3, 35, 9
3 hit +25
start over, etc, etc...
is this right?
Sam
Quote from: birdhands on March 30, 2011, 11:22:02 AM
Thanks for your testing, Jeromin. I'm glad we have a coder here.
"starting from spin 18, betting on the sleepers that wake up to repeat, and only on them"
Do you mean tracking 18 spins, then betting on each sleeper after it wakes?
Sam
PS are you interested in coding turbogenius' idea?
I am afraid I am not a coder. I copy sets of 49 spins from Wiesbaden or DB files ( 49 being close to the maximum 50 spins the software can handle, and fits neatly into one page by resizing the font to 13 ), paste them into Kon-Fu-Sed's software, found here:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=273 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=273)
then paste the results into a notepad file. Slow and laborious. I get 30/50 sessions in one go when I'm in the mood, my tolerance of repetitive tasks being limited.
The result looks something like this:
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 35 36 1
2 13 35 2
3 3 34 3
4 7 33 4
5 11 32 5
6 1 31 6
7 10 30 7
8 9 29 8
9 11 29 7 1 1
10 35 29 6 2 2
11 24 28 7 2 2
12 12 27 8 2 2
13 6 26 9 2 2
14 12 26 8 3 3
15 21 25 9 3 3
16 10 25 8 4 4
17 25 24 9 4 4
18 19 23 10 4 4
19 0 22 11 4 4
20 4 21 12 4 4
21 5 20 13 4 4
22 22 19 14 4 4
23 29 18 15 4 4
24 21 18 14 5 5
25 36 17 15 5 5
26 0 17 14 6 6
27 13 17 13 7 7
28 24 17 12 8 8
29 3 17 11 9 9
30 0 17 11 9 8 1
31 18 16 12 9 8 1
32 8 15 13 9 8 1
33 11 15 13 9 7 2
34 12 15 13 9 6 3
35 5 15 12 10 7 3
36 3 15 12 10 6 4
37 5 15 12 10 5 5 =2: 10 13 21 24 35 5 -5
38 9 L 15 11 11 6 5 =1: 1 4 6 7 8 18 19 22 25 29 36 11 -16
39 19 W 15 10 12 7 5 +20
40 15 14 11 12 7 5
41 36 14 10 13 8 5 =0: 2 14 16 17 20 23 26 27 28 30 31 32 33 34 14 +6
42 15 L 14 9 14 9 5 =1: 1 4 6 7 8 18 22 25 29 9 -3
43 0 L 14 9 14 9 5 =0: 2 14 16 17 20 23 26 27 28 30 31 32 33 34 14 -17
44 4 L 14 8 15 10 5 -17
45 17 13 9 15 10 5
46 8 13 8 16 11 5
47 5 13 8 16 11 5
48 29 13 7 17 12 5 =0: 2 14 16 20 23 26 27 28 30 31 32 33 34 13 -30
49 0 L 13 7 17 12 5 =0: 2 14 16 20 23 26 27 28 30 31 32 33 34 13 -43
With the columns nice and straigt. I attach a copy of what it should look like. In this example the number 36 wakes up on spin 25 and repeats on spin 41. Since we start betting from spin 24, that's a total of 18 spins. We add the new repeaters as they come. At some stage we have to double because the total no. of units risked goes over 36. That's the tricky part because once you double, you double again soon. Do we stop at some stage, or do we play with very large bankroll and just wait for a hit? It will depend on what the longest hit over several hundred sessions is, our funds and whether we can find a profitable stop loss point. Eg, stop after reaching 36 units ( ie, just before having to double ) or whatever.
An actual coder would be able to test all this, and something I cannot test with this software, but which is promising: Betting only with 12 or even less ( 10, 9, 8...) sleepers left.
Hope that answers all the questions.
Jeromin
Quote from: birdhands on March 30, 2011, 11:50:20 AM
400 sessions x 49 spins= 19,600 spins Not bad.
So Jeromin, let me make sure I have this right:
5
36
23
14
5
30
11
24
7
31
22
24
11
1
6
17
29
30 18th spin (repeat)
3 sleeper, now bet 1 unit on 3
17
35 sleeper, now betting 1 unit on 3, 35
36
22
9 sleeper, now betting 1 unit on 3, 35, 9
3 hit +25
start over, etc, etc...
is this right?
Sam
You don't wait for the 18th spin, but for the moment you have 18 sleepers left, which will be normally after 20 some spins. You bet on the number that hit when you hit 18 sleepers, and so on. Otherwise the betting, one unit on each till a win, is correct.
Jeromin
I did say, starting from spin 18, rather than, starting from 18 sleepers left. My mistake.
Jeromin
U can further tweak it. U can choose to play a session only f at least one number didnt hit.
U can further reduce ur stop loss. F u dont have a winner in second session just stop.
It performs the best when in 111 spins at least one number didnt show up.
I know it is only 20k spins but i think it has a merit in a long & short time.
Hey birdhands
This looks very stable. I know its grind but ur bankroll needs 2 be just 150 - stop loss limit.
What i like about it is winning per session ratio to potential loss.
Hopefully i clarified things.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on March 30, 2011, 12:50:00 PM
U can further tweak it. U can choose to play a session only f at least one number didnt hit.
U can further reduce ur stop loss. F u dont have a winner in second session just stop.
It performs the best when in 111 spins at least one number didnt show up.
I know it is only 20k spins but I think it has a merit in a long & short time.
I thought that Turbogenius found it was safer to let every number hit at least once; you've found otherwise?
By "second session" do you mean the second round of 37/38?
Sam
I think the best result u get when in 111 spins u get at least one number that didnt show up at all.
Again we r talking about 20k+ spins (including of course 111=3x37 qualifing spins included in each session)
This is about 140 sessions played. Second session means another 37 spins betting on the original # that didnt show
in 1 session plus including another # with least showings. But u bet 2units on each. Turbogenius recommends betting until each # hits but i think u just have to stop after just 1 hit i 2 session and lower ur stop loss value.
Ideal case scenario is 2 have at least 2 # that didnt hit in preliminary 111 spins.
Hope im clear now.
Definitely clear. I'm just wondering why you think that having 1 or 2 unhit numbers is better than waiting for them all to hit. What is your opinion based on? Have you tested this, and if so, for how many sessions?
Sam
nolinks://turbogenius.webs.com/possibleholygrail.htm (nolinks://turbogenius.webs.com/possibleholygrail.htm)
Thats an original idea. I just use 111 spins for qualifing purposes. U can increase # of spins.
I dont wait 4 all of them to show up at least once. Just use set # of spins and 4 me its the best
f at least one # doesnt hit. U should have success with both options but i think u should end
ur session f u r down 150units or lose 2 cycles (185 units) Thats my observation during the testing.