You may have heard I'm stopping sales of my products as I dont have time to take new players. It doesnt at all mean I'll stop with roulette. It only means stopping sales. This means the ads on the forum will change. I've already removed the floatover ad.
Now bids are being made for advertising on the forum. One of the bidders is William Hill. But no matter what the fees are, I wont promote an unfair casino, and I wont use ads that are plain annoying to logged in members. So I'm asking eveyone for feedback with this casino.
1. Have they ever been refused payout?
2. How is their service?
3. How are their games and interfaces?
Basically any feedback is appreciated.
Have used many times both for roulette and sportsbook. No problems at all and quick to payout..
cheers
Steve - Higher limit tables not so high? 2 - 100 limits on 1: 1 bets not good. Thats only a 50 : 1 ratio. Compare Smart Live air wheel at 1 - 500 = 500 : 1. Live dealer 10 - 1,000 = 100:1 and linked GURU play (same dealers) 10 - 1500 = 150 :1. Higher stake players are not catered for?
Graphics are good. Playtech processing good. View of wheel is constantly in view during spin, good. Latvian "baby doll" acting dealers are pretty lame and sometimes speak too softly to hear the ball drop number. It does display the drop though, so no big deal.
Auto log out activates if you don't bet for a while, waiting for a trigger or similar. Maybe a bet or 2
in the intervals & then cancel would solve that part?
Condition free bonuses are good, I got 2 this week 4 & 5 quid. Did some testing on code 4. Stake was too small so eventually lost but WH money not mine. I stopped playing there because of the poor bet ratios last year. My WH account is still valid though.
Frequent player rewards would be good without high playthrough conditions. Say just playthrough your valid reward amount and if you win then you may withdraw it if you wish?
Casino rewards.com has something like this, Yukon Gold etc. Once you get 1,000 points up you can convert it to nil conditions play credit, 10 bucks per 1,000 I think? This joint is RNG & I haven't played it for nearly 2 years
The WH spin cycles are close to 1 minute each. Good if you like fast play. Not good if you need time to get lots of bets down.
Chip betting control could be better in so far as options go. Smart Live layout leaves WH for dead.
eg at SL the bet button increases your bet by your base amount each time you click the bet button. WH doesn't. SL has delete last bet Wh doesn't. If you make a mistake at WH you have to clear and start again. Rather tough with multiple bets and a narrow time window.
What would be good for array bets and alternating bet stategies are easy to use storage registers that retains all the base bets. Say between 5 - 10 registers. With a decent array bet panel to "edit" the bets. IE.. Increase some more than others as needed?
Casinos need to cater for the more the knowledgeable player these days. Many players won't continue to throw their money away if they don't at least have a fighting chance to win. I For one won't.
I think it would be worthwhile for William Hill to run a survey across all 3 forums Steve. From the information they receive they may reformat their roulette betting to much higher game limits. Probably just more on screen layouts?
Innovation - How about a no zero airball wheel rivalling or exceeding bet voyager? How about a no zero live dealer wheel, now that would be a 1st? They can run low & high limits off any of these tables just like they already do.
WH could reward participants with a reasonable low condition bonus. As an extra carrot have some really decent top 10 prizes for the best suggestions as decided by senior WH management.
How about 10,000GBP for 1st place in casino credits. That would be a good challenge to playthrough. Then the prizes could step down to 500 GBP for 10th place & 50 GBP for each valid contributor. Critics & frivilous remarks would be invalid.
Suggest you join up Steve and spend a modest stake to see the WH set up.
Branson did it with Virgin, why not WH with roulette?
Steve,
Please take a look here (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=20049.0).
I've also spoken about my experience with some CasinoMeister members and an admin, they all told me this kind of behavior is nothing new for William Hill and its group of casinos. They have an incompetent staff who will block you the moment they realize you have some magical winning system, and they won't care what you as a customer will say. They're one of the big boys and you can whine all day, they won't listen. When you're blocked, you're blocked.
I don't know about you, but this is not the kind of casinos I would encourage or endorse. There are better ones out there, so do seek other offers if possible.
Quote from: shaineicus on May 17, 2012, 04:33:39 AM
Have used many times both for roulette and sportsbook. No problems at all and quick to payout..
Everything goes fine, until you start winning (even by good luck).
Quote from: ausguy on May 17, 2012, 09:03:27 AM
Steve - Higher limit tables not so high? 2 - 100 limits on 1: 1 bets not good. Thats only a 50 : 1 ratio. Compare Smart Live air wheel at 1 - 500 = 500 : 1. Live dealer 10 - 1,000 = 100:1 and linked GURU play (same dealers) 10 - 1500 = 150 :1. Higher stake players are not catered for?
Graphics are good. Playtech processing good. View of wheel is constantly in view during spin, good. Latvian "baby doll" acting dealers are pretty lame and sometimes speak too softly to hear the ball drop number. It does display the drop though, so no big deal.
Auto log out activates if you don't bet for a while, waiting for a trigger or similar. Maybe a bet or 2
in the intervals & then cancel would solve that part?
Condition free bonuses are good, I got 2 this week 4 & 5 quid. Did some testing on code 4. Stake was too small so eventually lost but WH money not mine. I stopped playing there because of the poor bet ratios last year. My WH account is still valid though.
Frequent player rewards would be good without high playthrough conditions. Say just playthrough your valid reward amount and if you win then you may withdraw it if you wish?
Casino rewards.com has something like this, Yukon Gold etc. Once you get 1,000 points up you can convert it to nil conditions play credit, 10 bucks per 1,000 I think? This joint is RNG & I haven't played it for nearly 2 years
The WH spin cycles are close to 1 minute each. Good if you like fast play. Not good if you need time to get lots of bets down.
Chip betting control could be better in so far as options go. Smart Live layout leaves WH for dead.
eg at SL the bet button increases your bet by your base amount each time you click the bet button. WH doesn't. SL has delete last bet Wh doesn't. If you make a mistake at WH you have to clear and start again. Rather tough with multiple bets and a narrow time window.
What would be good for array bets and alternating bet stategies are easy to use storage registers that retains all the base bets. Say between 5 - 10 registers. With a decent array bet panel to "edit" the bets. IE.. Increase some more than others as needed?
Casinos need to cater for the more the knowledgeable player these days. Many players won't continue to throw their money away if they don't at least have a fighting chance to win. I For one won't.
I think it would be worthwhile for William Hill to run a survey across all 3 forums Steve. From the information they receive they may reformat their roulette betting to much higher game limits. Probably just more on screen layouts?
Innovation - How about a no zero airball wheel rivalling or exceeding bet voyager? How about a no zero live dealer wheel, now that would be a 1st? They can run low & high limits off any of these tables just like they already do.
WH could reward participants with a reasonable low condition bonus. As an extra carrot have some really decent top 10 prizes for the best suggestions as decided by senior WH management.
How about 10,000GBP for 1st place in casino credits. That would be a good challenge to playthrough. Then the prizes could step down to 500 GBP for 10th place & 50 GBP for each valid contributor. Critics & frivilous remarks would be invalid.
Suggest you join up Steve and spend a modest stake to see the WH set up.
Branson did it with Virgin, why not WH with roulette?
That's all nice, but do have experience getting lucky or making some real money with them?
All those nice games and conditions and marketing don't matter anymore when you have a casino staff with a reputation of being paranoid and mathematically illiterate who will block you from playing when they slightly suspect you have a winning system. I'm not the only one this happened to with William Hill. Avoid if you want a "normal" casino experience.
Entropy - Do tell about casinos or a casino that you find ok?
As I said I only played with a bit of WH nil condition bonus money so nothing lost of mine. It's good to get feed back on the traps of casinos, WH revelations are a warning and points taken on board.
Also there's a big discussion on the CC Forum about WH. Under the title of "Do you ever feel like the casino cheats"? They're all fresh so find many of them down the bottom of the cover page in the Latest posts section. My views have gone negative on WH after reading some of those posts on CC. I didn't read them until after I'd posted above.
This shows one of the true values of a forum.
Thanks guys. I only needed one legitimate report of payout refusal. There is no way I'll be running their ads regardless of fee.
@Entropy,
I did win bud, even had a dutch book with their bonuses and they still paid out.
Some overzealous employee may ban someone and there are definately better casinos out there,
but there are also a lot worse.
William hill is a huge concern of high street bookmakers, not just an offshore knock up online casino. To not pay out on a few grand and ban a few people isnt a drop on what they take on the high street and is not worth their license to rip off the punters for peanuts.
so its not 32red or skybet... but its not the bottom of the pile either.
cheers..
It is not uncommon for casinos to refuse payouts. I've just never heard of a casino in certain jurisdictions do it. Its always ones like in costa rica.
FWIW, William Hill are no longer on the Casinomeister list of accredited casinos, likewise for Betfair casino, which now has "rogue" status. :o
Quote from: ausguy on May 17, 2012, 03:45:10 PM
Entropy - Do tell about casinos or a casino that you find ok?
Unibet is one of the biggest and best ones.
Some other currently good/safe ones I know: Bet365, BetFred, Betsson, and PaddyPowerCasino.
Others that seem good but I'm not as sure about them as the above ones: Ladbrokes, Roulette69, Roxy Palace, Victor Chandler.
William Hill do pay out, but they have an ongoing history of mistreating players (blocking you from games, ignoring emails, etc). Hence them not being in the CasinoMeister accredited list.
Betfair had problems and so did SmartLive as of late (payout-related), so I would avoid both for now.
Needless to say, I would avoid RNG games no matter what they say. It doesn't matter what RNG licenses and control they claim to have, in the end they're all corporations after money, so you NEVER really know.
All casinos I mentioned have live games.
I told them what was being claimed, and their response is:
QuoteThis is very disappointing. We have hundreds of thousands of members, so to find a few unhappy members over the last decade is no big surprise. In fact, you would be hard pushed to find any business of our size (UK top 100 company, more stores than McDonalds) without criticism. I would like to inform you that if all is legal and requirements are met, we do pay out and would not be a company of this size if we did not. Best of luck in your endeavors.
It would not be uncommon for an online casino to refuse payout. But one genuine report of it is enough for me to not promote the casino for any fee. It would be clear to them that the average person doesnt have the time or resources to take them to court for a payout, especially when the casino has full control over all the "evidence".
Thing is about what they said is almost every player is a consistent loser. This is normal. But what happens when someone gets lucky?
Quote from: Entropy on May 19, 2012, 04:47:43 AM
Needless to say, I would avoid RNG games no matter what they say. It doesn't matter what RNG licenses and control they claim to have, in the end they're all corporations after money, so you NEVER really know.
All casinos I mentioned have live games.
In general I agree that it's best to avoid RNG. But there is one notable exception: Betvoyager. This casino has "randomness control" and to my knowledge no other RNG based OC uses it. This guarantees that the outcomes are generated BEFORE you place a bet (and you can check this for yourself using the hash function), which means there is no way for them to generate an outcome which will make you lose. This gives you a cast-iron assurance that the game isn't rigged, even more so than a live game. A live game can can still be rigged, whether by magnets, messing with the video etc, - there is always the possibility of cheating if there is no guarantee that the outcome was generated (and not subsequently changed) before you place your bet, that goes for all B&M casinos too. People think that a live game (whether B&M or online) is safer than an RNG because "seeing is believing", but appearances can be deceptive. Randomness control gives peace of mind for the paranoid player. :yes:
Live game feed providers provide the same feed to tons of casinos, each casino has different players placing different bets. If the feed provider is going to cheat who is it going to favor? How is it going to do it? Magnets? I've known a skilled visual player once (you know those wheel starers?) and he never noticed anything unusual in that regard. I don't think it's quite comparable to the RNG's.
What's funny is that, in the case of casinos like William Hill, it's actually the casino supervisors (pitbosses) that don't trust their live feeds. This is probably because they know it's the real thing and it's not something they have control over and so they're always worried that someday some system player or some physics player is going to come and take loads of money from them (possibly causing the supervisor to lose his job). They are simply that stupid. I mean these are people that don't trust the indisputable mathematical model of the game, let alone some live feed they don't own or control. Keep in mind that they are not only hired to make sure the games run appropriately but also to make sure the casino keeps making money and to enforce a kind of "stop loss" in case some player is winning too much. That is normal for casinos, their highest priority is to make the most out of their edge and nothing less. But you would think these guys would at least pick people who know math and roulette physics, not a superstitious idiot. It's amazing how many clueless people you can find among casino staff.
For some reason however, they seem to trust the RNG games and never bother you when it comes to that. That was interesting.
I'm not familiar with said Betvoyager system, I might look into it out of curiosity. I don't agree about paranoia with regards to online casino RNG's being "paranoia", more like healthy commonsense. One has to be truly naive to have so much "blind" trust so to speak in a casino. When money is involved, people can be quite creative.
I have already posted this on another thread but I thought you should see it
William Hill are in my experience unfair and very evasive when it comes to certain questions.
Here is my recent correspondence with William Hill with my personal detais deleted.
In 2009, I had a run of good luck on the horses. Your response to that, was to cap my bets at £27.00. Until then, I thought WilIiam Hill was a fair and honest organisation. However, far from admitting the truth that William Hill does not like winners, you fed me a load of B/S about my £45.00 stakes, a drop in the ocean, affecting value for other customers. I've never heard so much crap in my life. Though you did tell me, I could bet as much as I like on your rigged RNG.
In the highly unikey event, I do start winning long term using your RNG (quick duck there's a flying pig) how much will you allow me to win, before capping my bets, closing my account or coming up with some obscure reason not to pay me what you owe.
Just for a change,I would very much appreciate a full and honest answer
Subject: No Summary
Dear
Thank you for your e-mail.
We are sorry that you feel that our game is in any way unfair.
The house edge at casino.williamhill.com is exactly the same as a land based casino. It is not like a fruit machine where the machine is programmed to win over a period of time. Whatever the customer has bet on or the amount they have staked has absolutely no influence whatsoever on the number the random number generator arrives at.
All games in the William Hill Casino go through extensive testing before they are made available to customers. They go through a range of different tests by our market leading software supplier, Playtech. When they have tested everything, William Hill provide numerous tests including functionality, load testing and fairness testing.
The randomness of our random number generator is independently approved and tested by comparing a very long sequence of generated numbers to various statistical distributions. If any of these tests are found to be outside theoretical limits, the random number generator is not used.
To provide full transparency, Gaming Associates, recognised for its advanced empirical gambling evaluation & analysis system (AEGEAS), are independently auditing all bets placed on the William Hill Casino site. The results can be found at the following link:
nolinks://casino.williamhill.com/help/fair-payouts (nolinks://casino.williamhill.com/help/fair-payouts)
We hope this answers your query. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
With regards,
Jay B.
Thank you for your imaginative and highly ficticious response. I am however disappointed (though not surprised) that you have avoided my question
For your conveniece, I shall repeat it here.
In the highly unlikey event, I do start winning long term using your RNG (quick duck there's a flying pig) how much will you allow me to win, before capping my bets, closing my account or coming up with some obscure reason not to pay me what you owe.
Also you still have not provided a satisfactory explanation, as to why you have capped my sports bets, following a winning run in 2009. I don't believe my £45.00 bets affected the odds as you claim. I think the real reason is you are cheats, you don't like people winning.
Just for a change, please provide me with honest information that is relevant to what I have asked you.
Subject: No Summary
Hi
Good day to you.
Upon investigating your query, we can confirm that the decision to limit your stake in all sports has been done by William Hill management.
This was carried out after a thorough investigation of your previous transactions, leading our traders to regulate the amount of stake you can place on our website.
Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
Kind regards,
Anne
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Yes, it's obvious the decision to cap my sports bets was taken by William Hill management.
I am starting to get angry now. Why are you refusing to give me any reasons, for that decision. You have also managed to wriggle out of answering my other question.
I really don't know, how to make it any simpler. Let's try again.
In the highly unlikey event, I do start winning long term using your RNG (quick duck there's a flying pig) how much will you allow me to win, before capping my bets, closing my account or coming up with some obscure reason not to pay me what you owe.
Please provide me, with full. honest and relevant answers to my questions
Thank you
I am still waiting for a response to my last e-mail
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Basically my friend William hills dont like winners
I won 2 grand in 2 days and got banned
much to my surprise I actually got the money out of them after a few weeks of e mail exchanges and threatening to put the matter into the hands of my solicitors they paid up
Dont bother with wankerhills because thats all they are at the end of the day
Davemd.
Davemd summed it up quite well. They just don't like winners.
One might say that they don't like cheaters or advantage players, but that's not it. The reality is they just don't like people who win, even if it's within the boundaries of luck.
What's shocking is that they're a huge and wealthy group. Someone winning 2 grand (or even less in my case) in 2 days shouldn't be a big deal, not even close! Yet there's a good chance they'll ban you for it.
Sure there's no law against it, but it's still unethical and they deserve to be exposed for it.
Entropy
Agreed WIiam Hill should be exposed for some of their practices, ie closing winning accounts and refusing to pay out on technicalities. But how would you go about doing that.
If anyone has any constructive ideas, I am willing to help in any way that I can.
just spread the word wherever you can. but even if they were breaking the law, nothing stops them from going to costa rica under a different name to run shady business. they are a public company so you can also complain to the consumer watchdogs which have a mandate to pursue dishonest companies, especially public ones. although you will find organizations like the SEC dont really exist to protect investors. They exist to protect big business. so dont expect them to say anything more than "take them to court, dont bother us"
like it or not they are doing nothing wrong legally........ >:( >:(
It's only morally where they are falling down. So you can do nothing about it !!!!!
"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
Quote from: Steve on November 06, 2012, 08:59:05 PM
"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
I hear Ya Steve & agree it's not right...... ;)
But STILL there is NOTHING that can be done about it !!!!!!
I think I will post about William Hill's dishonest behaviour on Twitter and Facebook and any other forums I can Google. If enough people did that, it would do some damage.
Steve, would there be any objection to me posting relevant links to this site.
If you arent actually profiting from the links, no problem.
Also I really need to start a site dedicated to casino complaints. Will try to do today.
I managed to finish the casino complaints site. I'm just waiting for the domain name to propagate and will share the address.
Good for you. By the way, DNS propagation will last for 24-48H. (https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinkss%3A%2F%2Fimagicon.info%2Fcat%2F10-3%2Fsmile2.png&hash=471c4bfde9a8eaaecc106f26429c893406565ad6)
Quote from: Steve on May 17, 2012, 03:39:19 AM
You may have heard I'm stopping sales of my products as I dont have time to take new players. It doesn't at all mean I'll stop with roulette. It only means stopping sales. This means the ads on the forum will change. I've already removed the floatover ad.
Steve if I understand I can't buy the JAA software access anymore ?
François
I stopped taking new players for about 3 months but resumed so yes you can still join. I dont have intentions of stopping anytime soon provided some measures I'm taking ensure I dont spend as much time giving support - ie even simpler software
Hi Steve
I've asked my bank to make a wire transfert of 3 500 USD today
Thank's in advance
Francois
Hello everyone. Nice to meet you. :pleasantry: :pleasantry:
Nice to meet you. I am Penza.
Slow to pay , often they want id before paying. They hate winners - Avoid ! The choice is yours but i don't like WH.
I played there for a about 12 months , rubbish...
Thanks for the heads up here. By the way, how slow specifically? I was about to try their casino. Are we talking about 3 weeks or a month? (https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinkss%3A%2F%2Fimagicon.info%2Fcat%2F10-3%2Fsmile2.png&hash=471c4bfde9a8eaaecc106f26429c893406565ad6)
Run far away from william hill. They have restricted more accounts from consistent winners than any other casino I know of.
Payouts are ok, but when I play in WH casino my hard disc always doing something even if reinstall os it is stil the same, only in this casino maybe they monitoring what I playing so maybe I will avoid this casino in the future. :-[
I've even had more players tell me of account restrictions since i wrote the above