Using the numbers from 9.6.8, I plugged in a $500 bank roll and at spin 200 I was at $1011.00
This program does nothing but alert you when your split has slept for 37 spins (My input number) and then begins the progression on it. There is nothing mysterious about it. It is based wholly on the Martingale powered by the Gambler's Fallacy!! Can you believe it??
EDIT: Right off the bat I hit the session from hell and lost the above mentioned $500, BUT...at several points I was up $50. So I will apply a version of the Peter Principle and quit at 10% of bankroll. Bankroll is $500 and bets are $1 for starters. If I make it to $1000, I will up the bet to $2. Here are the settings I have created for my Sniper:
Line: 12
Trio: 24
Corner: 20
Split: 37
The Random Box is unchecked on the above. I want to do the singles at 74 but you can't leave the box unchecked so my single setting is:
Singles: Low-74; high-75 and the random box IS checked.
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Total
9.2.8,58,41,58
[/table]
Ive "acquired" myself a copy of it and so far and it (dare I say it) works! My first run of the program was stupid - i set the bets large and the settings to most aggressive (more so just a test so i could test the program to see if the *cough* crack worked).
Second time around with a 500 bank and min bets at 10 (for Dublin bet outside) I set the program to monitor all except straight up (as the software dosent do this).
20 mins later I had made 350 - not bad considering all I had to do was the zombie task of copying numbers from DB to RS (thats what the perfect holy grail is, isn't it - to require no mental effort and still make profit!)
If its needed/wanted I can post up any results i get with RS.
By all means, post the numbers.
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
[/table]
Hello on Monday Morning Oklahoma Time.............
Well, what do we think? Made one mistake and did a page 2, but it was a winner also. Sometimes the actual win far exceeds the goal because, since this is a Martingale, you may have $10 on a split or trio and it adds up quickly at the end.
What do we think? Is the Gambler's Fallacy coupled with the Martingale the key to the mint? Don't change that channel!!
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,142,46,1156
[/table]
TwoCatSam
I am beginning to get very worried!
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,142,46,1156
9.8.8,116,48,1272
[/table]
Sam,
can you give us the exact settings you use?
Thanx mate
Ice
Quote from: iceberg1912 on September 08, 2008, 05:47:45 PM
Sam,
can you give us the exact settings you use?
Thanx mate
Ice
I agree, Sam I also have roulette sniper but I'm not sure if my settings are correct b/c I do not get consistent results. Also, what is the minimum bet your using?
Also, what do you have checked for each under "multi" at the bottom? I don't understand that box. It says it stands for "how many of these bets will be shown at once?"
He ya go...........
Line: 12
Trio: 24
Corner: 20
Split: 37
The Random Box is unchecked on the above. I want to do the singles at 74 but you can't leave the box unchecked so my single setting is:
Singles: Low-74; high-75 and the random box IS checked.
I can do you a screen shot if you need one.
Sam
Yessss please...
Ice
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 08, 2008, 06:30:01 PM
He ya go...........
Line: 12
Trio: 24
Corner: 20
Split: 37
The Random Box is unchecked on the above. I want to do the singles at 74 but you can't leave the box unchecked so my single setting is:
Singles: Low-74; high-75 and the random box IS checked.
I can do you a screen shot if you need one.
Sam
The singles box on mine lets you leave the box unchecked? Yea can you do a screen shot? Thanks!
Also, are you switching tables after 3 wins like the software recommends?
And, what does the "random Box" check mean? It says "randomly generate when the next bet should occur based on the settings." I'm confused.
Hi, to all I ve bought Roulette Sniper today, but it doesn t work.
I am running it on VISTA.
Do you use VISTA or XP?
Best regards
kawa4711
Here's a screen shot. I am using Vista Home Premium. I do not switch anything. I start at Riverbelle and play through until I increase the bankroll 10%
[attachimg=#]
This is a live wheel, not an RNG.
Sam
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,142,46,1156
9.8.8,116,48,1272
9.8.8.p2,128,44,1400
[/table]
Sam,
thank you (as usual)
Ice
Hi Sam,
I see that you're applying a 10% stop win (SW), but are you also applying any sort of SL?
What are your DDs each session? I'd be interested in seeing them.
Cheers
CD
Sam,
I just tested your exact settings on RNG with Roulette sniper and I made $230 in about 30 minutes! This is no joke! Some powerful stuff! Should I bet real $$$$$$$$$$$$ ?
mad
Who knows? I'm amazed at this thing. I don't trust RNGs as I still am wary of them.
CD
I started with a $500 imaginary bankroll and am up $900 in profit. My draw downs have been minor, say around $200 units. Once I did go very low, but it was after I had already won and kept going. I then went to Peter's idea of 10%.
Peter's idea was to either lose the whole bankroll or win 10%. I am not betting $2 units, so I could lose it all. I think if a person applied the bankrolling system outlined by Victor and tested by Matty, this could be a killer system.
Still, it's too early to tell.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 08, 2008, 07:35:25 PM
mad
Who knows? I'm amazed at this thing. I don't trust RNGs as I still am wary of them.
CD
I started with a $500 imaginary bankroll and am up $900 in profit. My draw downs have been minor, say around $200 units. Once I did go very low, but it was after I had already won and kept going. I then went to Peter's idea of 10%.
Peter's idea was to either lose the whole bankroll or win 10%. I am not betting $2 units, so I could lose it all. I think if a person applied the bankrolling system outlined by Victor and tested by Matty, this could be a killer system.
Still, it's too early to tell.
Sam
Not sure what you mean about the 10% stop win. With the 10% stop win, are you saying that once you reach 10% of your bankroll to stop? So if your bankroll is $100 and you reach $110.00 to stop?
mad.....
Yes, 10% of bankroll.
Sam
OK, someone asked about draw down.....on this old trot it went down about $1,000!!! Had some numbers just hit over and over again with no dispersion around the board. One corner went to $40 and then lost. Next spin, it hit!
Anyway...........take a look.
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,142,46,1156
9.8.8,116,48,1272
9.8.8.p2,128,44,1400
8.24.8,142,84,1542
[/table]
Maroon is old spins from last month!
Sam
Hi sam
english is not my first language
so i dont understand the word" trot"
doest that mean that at one moment
you have a drawdown of 1000
you say that your bankrool was 500?
can you clarify thank you sam?
can you aware me of the fluctuation of the
bankroll during your test on roulette snipper
ntm from Monte carlo
N
"Trot" is the length of the permanence you are using. If it's 200 numbers, I call it a 200 number trot.
I started with $500 plugged into the Sniper. This is not real money.
I am not tracking drawdowns, but at this time it has not killed the bankroll.
Sam
$1,000 draw down! Holy Moly! A BR wiping session will come sooner or later. But yes, safer MM would help you to ride out those long dispersions with more confidence & perhaps turn SR into a winning monster. This is what I eventually learnt while playing ATILA on the lines. While I was at first winning all my sessions, I was getting the occasional session where the DD was over 75% of my BR. So I knew I would go bust eventually, but kept playing the same way (always rising a lose) to see how long my winning streak would last. After some very tidy profits from winning 49 sessions on the bounce, I then lost 2 on the bounce, losing 2X $500!
Since then, I've taken Victor's advice and I am now much more conservative with my progressions (betting agressively to begin with, but swapping to passive betting at the first signs of trouble). As a result, my DD has yet to go below 25% of my BR. Sure, the sessions go on longer, but I'm still winning 10% of my BR each session. And when the shit really hits the fan, I can ride out those long dispersions for a hell of a lot longer, and start increasing my bets again when the hits start coming. I'm sure a similar betting strategy would serve SR well. I'd be interested to hear how many sessions you go before the BR is killed!
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 08, 2008, 05:34:48 PM
I am beginning to get very worried!
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,142,46,1156
9.8.8,116,48,1272
[/table]
CD
Why do you think that first sentence is in there? I know this is a Martingale based on the Gambler's Fallacy. Friend, I'm just having some easy fun here!
Sam
Hi Sam,
Don't get me wrong mate; I know you're only having a bit of fun with this thing. I'm just using my experiences to demonstrate how when a system relies on big draw downs, a big loss is inevitable. I wouldn't want any newcomers to read this thread and then start betting real cash with SR because of your early test results. BUT, it might have the potential to do very well with some sound MM.
Cheers
CD
CD
I agree. Let's say the thing produced 5 bankrolls of $500 and then lost four. We'd still be $500 up. I think the multiple bankroll idea of Victor's could apply here. We know it's going to tank; just don't know when.
Sam
OK, it finally lost!
I am going to re-do the figures so that it reflects this: Bets will stay at $1 and the stop-loss is $500 or closest thereto.
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
[/table]
Maroon is days out of order. I am not cooking the books; I am progressing in the VLS multiple bankroll direction.
Sam
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
[/table]
Ran out of numbers......
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
[/table]
I used the second sheet as page 2 and quit at 95 as I could go no further. Still, twenty bucks..
Quote from: Peter on September 10, 2008, 04:29:50 AM
Is the Gambler's Fallacy coupled with the Martingale the key to the mint?
hahaha sam that made me laugh hard! ;D
But then I remembered another joke, the wheel is not random the sniper is!
So maybe it's better to play with a random sniper, so there is like a battle going on between two bodies of randomness (if that makes sense)
I'm still busy working but thanks for putting so much effort into this.
I think if the best settings can be found and the correct bankroll strategy can be found might be a winner?
What is the latest body of opinion? is the roulette sniper sh!t hot or just sh!t?
I think it's the real deal. The main reason is, it's not just one progression going on. At any one time the software can and does keep track of many many different bets that are "due" to come in. Some come in and obviously some do not. Most of the time, the ones that are coming in, offset many of the long losing progressions of other bets that are going on at the time. Finding the optimal settings that is conservative yet random to keep going into profit should make it a consistent winner.
mad
You're right; they usually hit. Usually...........
I'm a little leery of letting the machine randomly select where to start. Say I'm using splits and I tell it to randomly select between 10 and 30, does an RNG just pick a number and we go from there? I'd rather pick my own.
I've found that when any proposition sleeps through two full cycles it is up for grabs. A dozen should hit one out of three spins. If it misses for six spins, it has slept through two cycles.
That's how I set the thing.
Peter, you wrote:
So maybe it's better to play with a random sniper, so there is like a battle going on between two bodies of randomness (if that makes sense)
Could you expand on this idea? If a corner comes up for betting and wins, does it come up the next time at exactly the same point? Does Sniper pick a different entry point each time? Maybe I need to write and find out. HUH?
Sam
Grabbing random pages from a pile.........
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
[/table]
I am making a mistake on this test and that could be why I lost the 500.
I will not seek to win more than $50 until I have at least 3 bankrolls of 500u each. I don't know what I will do if I make it that far.
Sam
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
8.10.8,53,52,966
[/table]
Oops!
Ideas? Suggestions?
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<500>,100,466
[/table]
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 10, 2008, 11:30:44 PM
Oops!
Ideas? Suggestions?
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<500>,100,466
[/table]
I agree, lets see how the system performs short term. $50.00 profit then exit and start over. I noticed in a few of my trial runs I was able to accumulate profit pretty quick. Things started getting hairy with some progressions threatening to wipe me out when I was 150-200 into profit. If we can consistently make small profits over and over, with an occasional loss, this is a definate winner.
mad
I lost 500 trying to get that last 50! Maybe a loss limit or go back to Peter's settings?
Sam
Digging me way out of the hole.....
New plan. Profit max of 50 loss limit of 250.
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<407>,100,559
9.11.8.p1,61,41,620
[/table]
More good diggin' on the second hundred:
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<407>,100,559
9.11.8.p1,61,41,620
9.11.8.p2,59,35,679
[/table]
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<407>,100,559
9.11.8.p1,61,41,620
9.11.8.p2,59,35,679
9.12.8.p1,56,37,735
9.12.8.p2,<262>,80,523
[/table]
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<407>,100,559
9.11.8.p1,61,41,620
9.11.8.p2,59,35,679
9.12.8.p1,56,37,735
9.12.8.p2,<262>,80,523
9.13.8.p1,59,49,582
9.13.8.p2,59,41,641
[/table]
Got RS a while ago with little success. I read this thread and changed my RS using Samsters settings.
I just used 10p stakes (real money) Got from £10 (100 10p units) to £50.60 in about 90 minutes.
Thought it was a good time to quit.
And up until i have read threads on this site in the last 48 hours I wouldn't of.
Its a good return from 10p's and in not that much amount of time.
Had one corner got to 14 (i think) and then it came in) apart from that, pretty much low to medium hits.
Result!
darren
I am setting my win goal at $50 and loss limit at $250.
Sam
Sorry...i meant the averages of the settings and inc singles. Not the betting amount.
Now i have some more funds in i can change it and adjust accordingly.
I guess its trial and error but it does hit winners.
(when i was playing £1 stakes before i was worried about results from the software i did get up to over a £100)
I didn't know about money management and good times to quit until i found this site in the last 48 hours then registered the next day.
I'm learning so much and its nice being around people who enjoy the game and want to win too.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 13, 2008, 04:56:39 PM
darren
I am setting my win goal at $50 and loss limit at $250.
Sam
TwoCat,,
Just to clarify, if I was doing testing of my own with a 100.00 bankroll then my win goal would be $10 (10% of bank) and my loss limit would be $50 (half of bankroll)?
Also if I reached my $10 win goal and stop, can I immediately start a new session right away for another quick $10 win goal and keep doing this all day?
Thanks
mad
Correct of the figures. To me numbers are numbers. You could just clear it and start over. I'm starting on page 2 of my daily 200. You know, both times I lost they were on the "back nine". I think once was on old numbers from August.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 13, 2008, 08:06:46 PM
mad
Correct of the figures. To me numbers are numbers. You could just clear it and start over. I'm starting on page 2 of my daily 200. You know, both times I lost they were on the "back nine". I think once was on old numbers from August.
Sam
Sam
3 more questions:
1) Are you using RNG #'s as they are spun live in practice mode?
2) are you using the exact same settings as your picture on page 1 for ALL of your tests?
3) what do you mean your losses were on the back 9? You mean the last nine spins?
Sam
3 more questions:
1) Are you using RNG #'s as they are spun live in practice mode? I am using the live Microgaming wheel, single 0
2) are you using the exact same settings as your picture on page 1 for ALL of your tests? Yes, I would have to start a new test if I changed them. If you are speaking of the screen shot I took, yes, those are the settings.
3) what do you mean your losses were on the back 9? You mean the last nine spins? If you notice in my Actuals, The TwoCat 5,000, there is page 1 of 100 spins and page 2 of 100 spins. Page 2 is the "back nine".
Here's the screen shot of my Sniper.
WHAT IS THIS .....IT ALL OVER ME!! AWRIGHT!! WHO PUT THE CURSE ON ME?
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/twocat-tests-the-%27sniper%27/msg20219/#msg20219 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/twocat-tests-the-%27sniper%27/msg20219/#msg20219)
END OF THIS SETTINGS TEST
No point in going on. It's just a typical Martingale. Repeat hits kills you; sleepers kill you.
I'll drop back ten and punt!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 13, 2008, 11:18:40 PM
END OF THIS SETTINGS TEST
No point in going on. It's just a typical Martingale. Repeat hits kills you; sleepers kill you.
I'll drop back ten and punt!
Sam
What happened? You were making steady progress? Did you have a big losing session?
mad
If you look at the chart, you'll see that it tanks every few spins. The last time it lost 250, I toss in the towel. Did I not post it?
Anyway, I'll wait until Peter comes off his work rotation and we'll let him study on this.
Mind you, I'm not giving up....just re-thinking.
Sam
[table=,]
Date...,Profit of..,At Spin #...,Bankroll
9.2.8,58,41,558
9.3.8,60,53,618
9.4.8,66,50,684
9.5.8,179,101,863
9.5.8.p2,151,73,1014
9.6.8,71,46,1085
9.8.8,58,48,1143
9.8.8.p2,74,44,1217
8.24.8,71,84,1208
8.24.8,<500>,84,717
9.9.8.p1,79,50,796
9.9.8.p2,20,95,816
8.20.8,97,115,913
9.10.8.p1,53,52,966
9.10.8.p2,<407>,100,559
9.11.8.p1,61,41,620
9.11.8.p2,59,35,679
9.12.8.p1,56,37,735
9.12.8.p2,<262>,80,523
8.5.8.p1,<some>,?,<200
[/table]
Quote from: TwoCatSam on September 14, 2008, 09:33:12 AM
mad
If you look at the chart, you'll see that it tanks every few spins. The last time it lost 250, I toss in the towel. Did I not post it?
Anyway, I'll wait until Peter comes off his work rotation and we'll let him study on this.
Mind you, I'm not giving up....just re-thinking.
Sam
TCS,
Just a thought, what if we set a stop loss of -75 units? Look at your starting bankroll, and everytime our "current" balance is -75 units we stop and start over the next day or next session.
What if the stop loss was -75 and the win target was +100, then start over?
Looking at your results, it seems the big losses of -300, -450, -500 etc kept your profits down.
mad
This was a fun test, but the thing is really just a Martingale based on the Gambler's Fallacy. It will never work long term.
My opinion only. Herb might actually agree with me just once!![smiley=beer.gif]
Sam
I bet it performs as well as the Four Selectra or the GUT.;)
Quote from: Herb on October 21, 2008, 03:18:26 AM
I bet it performs as well as the Four Selectra or the GUT.;)
Herb may I ask you a question? Why are you flaming other members that have a system that makes a profit? You seem to only get on those with the better working systems (winkel, Mr. Chips). All the others who post systems you do not attack.
I mean we're here all for the same purpose. We are looking for a way to win at Roulette.
Why are you here for? Don't see this as a flame.