I've just changed jobs & while I was working a weeks notice I thought I'd have a go & try & write my own system. I'm no expert so most of my development was done with pencil, paper & a bit of Excel spread sheet.
Firstly some logic & preferences:-
1) All my local casinos take 50% of the stake if zero comes up on an EC bet so I reckon that at 1.35% it's the best bet in the house (single zero wheel).
2) I only play in real casinos so something that doesn't require a lot of coded listing is also preferable.
3) No progressions.
So this is how I start.
I wait for 3 spins & list them Red/Black (R/B), Odd/Even (O/E) & High/Low (H/L).
Then I follow the trend of either alternating factors or a continuation of the same EC.
Here is an example of R/B taking Red as +1 & Black as -1 (you could use either to start).
No R/B Bet Sum
30 +1
32 +2
21 +3
17 +2 L -1
5 +3 W 0
30 +4 L -1
30 +5 W 0
9 +6 W +1
19 +7 W +2
30 +8 W +3
12 +9 W +4
3 +10 W +5
4 +9 L +4
26 +8 L +3
Taking the first 3 spins 30,32,21 showing +1,+2,+3 the bet is that it will continue with a forth red to be +4, 17 Black is a loss & we start again taking the last 3 numbers 32,21,17 gives +2,+3,+2 this time we bet that it will continue to alternate to give +3 & we bet red a 5 comes up & we win. Taking the next 3 numbers 21,17,5 gives +3,+2,+3 we bet that it will continue to alternate & come back to +2 & we bet Black – 30 Red is a loss. Starting again with the last 3 numbers 17,5,30 gives +2,+3,+4 we bet that Red will continue to +5 & we bet Red, 30 Red gives us +5 & a win. The reds continue & we keep betting till a black appears.
I only bet a single unit each time, & I play for a maximum of 30 spins.
I downloaded 5000 spins from Random.org & I'm about half way through testing them, I've also tried testing from my records of previous games & I tried a session of live games as well. The result of everything is between 1.5 & 2 units won per session – that's 30 spins covering all 3 EC chances.
Here's a H/L session over 30 spins
No H/L Bet Sum
12 -1
28 0
21 +1
27 +2 W +1
19 +3 W +2
8 +2 L +1
25 +3 W +2
3 +2 W +3
23 +3 W +4
11 +2 W +5
3 +1 L +4
4 0 W +5
15 -1 W +6
6 -2 W +7
24 -1 L +6
35 0 L +5
25 +1 W +6
19 +2 W +7
9 +1 L +6
18 0 L +5
25 +1 L +4
1 0 W +3
6 -1 L +2
23 0 L +1
11 -1 W +2
17 -2 L +1
17 -3 W +2
12 -4 W +3
5 -5 W +4
Betting can get a bit hectic when you start covering all 3 EC's, but with a bit of practice you can manage it quite well.
Here the same numbers with O/E listing
No O/E Bet Sum
12 -1
28 -2
21 -1
27 0 L -1
19 +1 W 0
8 0 L -1
25 +1 W 0
3 +2 L -1
23 +3 W 0
11 +4 W +1
3 +5 W +2
4 +4 L +1
15 +5 W +2
6 +4 W +3
24 +3 L +2
35 +4 L +1
25 +5 L 0
19 +6 W +1
9 +7 W +2
18 +6 L +1
25 +7 W +2
1 +8 L +1
6 +7 L 0
23 +8 W +1
11 +9 L 0
17 +10 W +1
17 +11 W +2
12 +10 L +1
5 +11 W +2
Not all sessions are winners with a 23 unit loss being the worst so far, but a 28 session win is also there.
The main losses occur when the EC's come in pairs RRBBRRBB & 8 losses in a row are not uncommon.
I tried stopping before 30 spins if I was up 5 units in total but letting it run to the full 30 spins gained more than it lost.
Zero's are the inevitable tax, at first I just accepted the half unit loss per EC but after a few tries I now increase my bet to 1.5 or 2 units on the EC that is performing the best & repeat until I've recovered. Sometimes you can recover within a couple of spins – other times it just carries on till the 30th spin.
I'm a bit dyslexic so if any of my 31's are 13's apologies.
Hope all this makes sense – anything not clear give me a shout.
Hi Portsa
Thank you very much for your system. I have done some testing and it looks promising. The drawdown is low. It's too early for me to commend as I am still in the process of doing more testing. Anyway wish you success in your new job.
Thanks & Rgds
sniper
Ty for sharing this Portsa I will also test It a little if I may ;)
Gl at your new job [smiley=3D-gal/36_13_1.gif]
/Worm
Thanks for the good wishes for the new job.
I've fixed the listing for the last O/E in my original post (cut & paste late at night.......) :)
Here is a game I played last week –
No R/B Bet Sum O/E Bet Sum H/L Bet Sum
14 +1 -1 -1
13 0 0 -2
34 +1 -1 -1
15 0 W +1 0 W +1 -2 W +1
31 -1 L 0 +1 L 0 -1 W +2
13 -2 W +1 +2 W +1 -2 W +3
16 -1 L 0 +1 L 0 -3 L +2
23 0 L -1 +2 W +1 -2 L +1
17 -1 L -2 +3 L 0 -3 W +2
23 0 W -1 +4 W +1 -2 W +3
27 +1 L -2 +5 W +2 -1 L +2
36 +2 W -1 +4 L +1 0 W +3
12 +3 W 0 +3 L 0 -1 L +2
16 +4 W +1 +2 W +1 -2 L +1
7 +5 W +2 +3 L 0 -3 W +2
21 +6 W +3 +4 L -1 -2 L +1
35 +5 L +2 +5 W 0 -1 L 0
17 +4 L +1 +6 W +1 -2 L -1
14 +5 L 0 +5 L 0 -3 L -2
2 +4 W +1 +4 L -1 -4 W -1
6 +3 L 0 +3 W 0 -5 W 0
2 +2 W +1 +2 W +1 -6 W +1
3 +3 L 0 +3 L 0 -7 W +2
3 +4 L -1 +4 L -1 -8 W +3
9 +5 W 0 +5 W 0 -9 W +4
24 +4 L -1 +4 L -1 -8 L +3
10 +3 L -2 +3 L -2 -9 W +4
31 +2 W -1 +4 L -3 -8 W +5
22 +1 W 0 +3 W -2 -7 L +4
35 0 W +1 +4 W -1 -6 W +5
That's up 5 units in total – up 1unit R/B down 1 on O/E & up 5 on H/L.
Hi again Portsa..
Tried this on Bacc @ dublinbet live for almost a hole shoe i ended up +4 units highest was around +7 and lowest around 5-6 units. I have bad memory so i dont remember ;D
Although i have not tested it that much, i like this method it´s one of the best i have used on E/C...
Have a nice weekend[smiley=Best_of_fichiers/28_4_8.gif]
/Worm
Hi mates,
Mikian on Italian Forum posted something similar using the 3 even chances at the same time , but using paroli.
Cheers,
JLP.-
Tyvm for your input JLP! [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
Just wanted to show some very short therm thinking from my side. Made a very tiny test on smartlive demo here are my result ;)
I only handle the red black (and virt bet on red) e/c here its better to learn it 1st.
NR virt.R profit
0 -1
8 -2
31 -3
23 -2 -1
23 -1 -2
7 0 -1
20 -1 -2
33 -2 -3
30 -1 -4
21 0 -5
Start betting 2 units here beacuse -5 units
17 -1 -7
31 -2 -5 <-----Yes made misstake but luck saved me =)
22 -3 -3
Going back to 1 units here beacuse winning 2 bets after the 1st loss in the 2 unit session.
31 -4 -2
15 -5 -1
22 -6 0
1 -5 -1
2 -6 0
3 -5 ++++1!! made my tiny 1 unit =)
Although I dont like progressions very much I think it need some to recover and a 5 streached d almbert isnt that bad? ???
/Worm
The problem with this method are the 2-2s PPBB or RRBB and so on...Any ideas? ;)
Is It Wrong to simplyfy this one by saying If BBR bet B if BBR bet B. And if BRB bet R or if RBR bet B. And if RRR bet R if BBB bet B?
Am I missing something? ???
/Worm
Hi worm – BBR is -1,-2,-1 so bet B to give -1,-2,-1,-2 and keep alternating.
BRB is -1,0,-1 so bet R to give -1,0,-1,0 and also keep alternating.
RRR is +1,+2,+3 so bet R to give +1,+2,+3,+4 and keep on the reds till it breaks
-------------------------------
I've been testing the system for a while now & I thought I'd share what found.
I've used 7000 spins (sorry it's not the required 10000 but I'm getting there) downloaded them from Random.org.
Here my chart :-
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fpic70.picturetrail.com%2FVOL1801%2F8787108%2F16248826%2F345042923.jpg&hash=3c9efeeba198fb0b71db407a324d9d72a3bc37f3)
The lower dark blue line is the system as shown above – up 150units after 100 sessions, that's 3000 spins.
The pink line is with the following adjustment.
No R/B Bet Sum
30 +1
32 +2
21 +3
17 +2 L -1
5 +3 W 0
30 +4 L -1
30 +5 W 0
9 +6 W +1
19 +7 W +2 - up 2 units increase bet to 2 units
30 +8 W +4
12 +9 W +6
3 +10 W +8
4 +9 L +6
26 +8 L +4
If it returns back to zero then I continue back at single units until it returns to +2.
I tried this for 7000 spins (234 sessions at 30 spins each) & I was up 305 units.
Then I tried cutting excessive losses by adding a stop loss of minus 5 units for any single EC – that makes maximum loss of 15 units in any one session. That's the yellow line, up 355 units also after 234 sessions. This helped a lot when the freight train was going down the mine shaft.
Finally the turquoise line – that's been a bit laborious (1200 spins from live games) that's showing a similar trend up 108 units after 40 sessions.
It's strange the difference between RNG tests & live games it feels like the RNG has a more abrupt rhythm & is prone to roller coaster changes. Where the live games have a calmer less extreme feel to them, maybe more testing will even it out.
The zero's are still a problem, especially when they appear near the end of a session & I don't have time to recover. I'm currently trying a modest 10-20% stake increase after a loss to a zero.
Hi Portsa..
Thanks for sharing this idea i love it ;)
Been testing this myself (manualy live) and i mostly play bacc, we need a nice way to not loose to much when a pair pattern form like [BB][RR] after another. I will help you figure this out (if i can) and comment the diffrent ways to play this.
QuoteThe zero's are still a problem, especially when they appear near the end of a session & I don't have time to recover. I'm currently trying a modest 10-20% stake increase after a loss to a zero.
Baccarat is the way to go here, not as fun maybe but better :)
Take care
/Worm
I love this aproch, I think the 5 unit S/L is a good idea.
Is it ok for you portsa if i try this in the testing section of this forum? ;)
PLaying Baccarat that is.
[smiley=3/shrug.gif]
/Worm
Hi Worm – please try it out, I've been doing more testing & I'd like to see if anyone gets similar results. I've never played Baccarat – so good luck. :)
I finally managed to check 10000 spins – my little abacus is all worn out..... ;D
My new job is seriously affecting my free time for testing.
10000 spins is about 333 sessions of 30 spins each & the end result (excluding zeros) gave me +365 units.
After a bit more testing I tried increasing my starting bet to 2 units, if the balance is below zero I revert to single units & if the balance is zero or above I keep betting at 2 units.
Like this :-
No R/B Bet Sum
30 +1
32 +2
21 +3
17 +2 L -2
5 +3 W -1
30 +4 L -2
30 +5 W -1
9 +6 W 0
19 +7 W +2
30 +8 W +4
12 +9 W +6
3 +10 W +8
4 +9 L +6
26 +8 L +4
This gave good results & increased my total to +615 units after 333 sessions, that's about +1.85 units per session, some sessions were over +40 units, although they were scarce. I still keep a S/L of -5 units & it works well. The 2 unit start seems to gives the session a longer winning streak & a better recovery rate.
I currently play about once a week at B/M casino's so 10000 spins will take me over 12 months of play, I'm thinking about trying it out for real in an internet casino, can anyone recommend one?
Preferably one that has the 50% retention for EC's when zero's pitch up.
Dear Portsa,
Thank you for sharing. I am very interested in this.
Lately I have been developing and trying a very similar EC betting approach that includes both, betting on the streaks and the alternating trends and my results were very similar to yours so far. When reading this, I was very surprised at how similar your approach was to mine, expect for the money management aspect and a couple of other tweaks.
Briefly, here are some techniques that I personally use with this:
1) I personally use a slightly modified version of Victors Leftmost Cancellation as MM, it's basically the same except this:
- When I win, I increase the sum of the leftmost numbers to be canceled from one to two, and if I see fit (i.e. when I feel that I'm on a winning streak) I shoot for canceling three numbers, but whenever I loose, I go back to canceling one leftmost number, and so on.
- I don't hesitate to modify the cancellation line by adding up or breaking down the numbers whenever I see fit.
- I put a certain limit to my line, breaking it down between two or more sessions when it gets too long and reaches the limit, instead of trying to close it in one session.
2) Whenever I hit three losses: LLL I enter virtual mode and continue tracking, and as soon as I see a win, I go back to real betting, but this time, I will only resist two LL's before I enter virtual mode again; and as soon as I see 2 or more ww's, I go back to resisting 3 L's before entering virtual mode.
==> This helps me avoid any long L streaks.
3) Whenever I see too much L's and too much going in and out of the virtual betting mode during the session, I conclude that it's a bad session and QUIT (no matter where I am in terms of winnings/losses), take a break and come back later.
==> This helps me avoid betting like a robot in an obviously bad session, and helps suppress the effect of long bad sessions on my overall bankroll. This is a golden rule that I learned from Victor.
If I remember anything else, I'll add it here.
I would also like to point out that all the above come from the teachings of Victor in this forum, and I owe him for that.
His professionalism and his way of approaching the game is very compatible with what I want to reach. That is why I am always willing to learn, understand and use the most from whatever he posts.
Hope this helps.
All the best from your friend,
Marven
Quote from: Worm on November 28, 2008, 09:30:42 AM
Is It Wrong to simplyfy this one by saying If BBR bet B if BBR bet B. And if BRB bet R or if RBR bet B. And if RRR bet R if BBB bet B?
Am I missing something? ???
/Worm
Hi Worm,
According to the EC system that I made, the betting plan is a combination of the following triggers+bets:
Streak Bets: BBB shows ----> Bet on
B RRR shows ----> Bet on
RDominant Bets: Back Dominants:
BBR shows ----> Bet on
B RRB shows ----> Bet on
R Front Dominants:
RBB shows ----> Bet on
B BRR shows ----> Bet on
RLoop Bets: BRB shows ----> Bet on
R RBR shows ----> Bet on
BNotice the amazing similarity to Portsa's betting plan!
I use all these combined together.
All the best,
Marven
Thank you for your input on this Marven. I been thinking alot about how to resist the BBRR BBRR or vice versa. Your idea seems to make alot of sense and I agree that betting this like a robot isnt something you want to do really.
Great minds think alike ;)
Take care
/Worm[smiley=checks/12.jpg]
Just a idea of mine, if you encounter 3 losses in a raw try betting the opposite on the next bet and stay on it until you get a loss. Might be a stupid idea but I like to bet like this when Iam playing. Might get you to a larger DD but I like the chance so get into that BBPP chops ;)
take care
/Worm
Hello Portsa mate
Thanks again for your system and the nice testing results you posted.I am doing a lot of testing on your system and will try playing in land casino in a week or so. Any update on the MM technique?
You mentioned about the stop loss at -5 units. How do you continue after the stop loss? Do you wait for new outcomes and start betting or do you move to another table? When you are playing 3 EC together and one of them hit a -5 stop loss, do you continue betting with the other 2 EC till the end of 30 hands? When zero appears, do you ignore it and continue with the previous bet?
Thank you very much
Regards
sniper
Hi guys – thanks for all the input.
I'm still hammering away at my testing & I've tried a few more tweaks.
I've increased my stop loss to -7 units & I've also increased my first bet to 2 units, this was in an attempt to avoid losing big & wining small, I still revert back to a single unit if my first bet loses or if I hit -2 after that.
This is a typical losing session:-
No R/B Bet Sum
30 +1
17 0
34 +1
36 +2 L -2
29 +1 L -3
25 +2 W -2
36 +3 L -3
33 +2 L -4
2 +1 L -5
12 +2 L -6
19 +3 L -7
This one did a little better:-
No R/B Bet Sum
27 +1
14 +2
15 +1
22 0 L -2
29 -1 W -1
23 0 L -2
20 -1 W -1
25 0 W 0
24 -1 W +2
26 -2 L 0
15 -3 W +2
35 -4 W +4
19 -3 L +2
11 -4 W +4
18 -3 W +6
This has worked fairly well – after 10000 spins I'm up 715 units. Although After 400 sessions (12000 spins) it has fallen to 580 units – I hit a period where I lost 19 out of 20 sessions losing about 150 units.
The difference between RNG testing & results from B&M casino's is definitely noticeable.
I did a trial of 100 sessions (3000 spins) using the download of Wiesbaden spins as supplied by Kon-Fu-Sed (thanks mate) & got very good results.
This was one of the better sessions (Wiesbaden 12-4-2003):-
No R/B Bet Sum O/E Bet Sum H/L Bet Sum
2 -1 -1 -1
8 -2 -2 -2
14 -1 -3 -3
7 0 L -2 -2 L -2 -4 W +2
5 +1 W -1 -1 L -3 -5 W +4
16 +2 W 0 -2 L -4 -6 W +6
11 +1 L -2 -1 W -3 -7 W +8
25 +2 W -1 0 L -4 -6 L +6
17 +1 W 0 +1 W -3 -7 W +8
30 +2 W +2 0 L -4 -6 W +10
3 +3 L 0 +1 W -3 -7 W +12
28 +2 L -2 0 W -2 -6 W +14
6 +1 L -3 -1 L -3 -7 W +16
20 0 W -2 -2 W -2 -6 W +18
24 -1 W -1 -3 W -1 -5 L +16
30 0 L -2 -4 W 0 -4 W +18
10 -1 W -1 -5 W +2 -5 L +16
30 0 W 0 -6 W +4 -4 W +18
4 -1 W +2 -7 W +6 -5 W +20
27 0 W +4 -6 L +4 -4 W +22
32 +1 L +2 -7 W +6 -3 L +20
34 +2 W +4 -8 L +4 -2 W +22
7 +3 W +6 -7 L +2 -3 L +20
2 +2 L +4 -8 W +4 -4 L +18
21 +3 W +6 -7 W +6 -3 L +16
11 +2 W +8 -6 L +4 -4 W +18
31 +1 L +6 -5 W +6 -3 W +20
14 +2 L +4 -6 L +4 -4 W +22
27 +3 L +2 -5 W +6 -3 W +24
16 +4 W +4 -6 W +8 -4 W +26
This session was up 38 units.
The 100 sessions gave +244 units in total.
To answer some question that have been posted.
To Sniper – if a single E/C hits -7 units I abandon that one & continue with the other two until I finish the 30 spin session. Of the more than 400 sessions that I tested (using RNG) I've only had 7 sessions where all three E/C's have lost that gives a -21 unit total for that session.
To Worm & Marven - with regards to the 'pairs' I've tried testing on a repeat of a double – RRB & betting on Black to give a second pair (RRBB), but this gave similar results to normal play. It's up to yourself how you want to play it.
I'm still trying to come up with a satisfactory way of recovering from zero's – I've tried treating a zero as a loss, that is if I was betting on a red & a zero was spun I'd take it as a black & continue, but this can easily break a wining trend & cost you more overall. Bearing in mind that by increasing my starting bet to 2 units a zero could cause a 3 unit loss (that's 50% of 6 units) this is certainly a problem.
I currently increase my bets by a 10 to 20% after a zero & see if I can catch up. I'll keep on testing in this area & see what I can work out.
Please feel free to give any feed back.
Portsa
Sorry about the tables - I tried pasting them from Excel - but they don't look so good. :-[
Ty for your testing and feedback Portsa :) I promise myself that i will test this even more, just that I had so much else on my hands.. :-\
Take care
/Worm
Hello Portsa
Quote10000 spins is about 333 sessions of 30 spins each & the end result (excluding zeros) gave me +365 units.
Does it mean the loses when zero hit is not taken into consideration?
By the way Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family.
Thanks & Regards
sniper
Hi Sniper – thanks for the seasonal wishes, all the best to you & your loved ones.
You're correct about the zeros – they are not included in my totals. I'm still trying to figure out how to overcome that one. I currently try & recover from a loss by increasing my bet by 10 – 20% until I've caught up, but I could do with something better.