VLS Roulette Forum

The premise:

You know a person is going to begin the study of roulette.  You feel you have a winning system that you want him to try.  You honestly feel that he could do a lot worse than play your system and probably not much better.  You also know he has a superstition.

The question:  Since he is going to play anyway regardless of what you do and since you feel he would benefit from playing your system over others, would it be right or wrong for you to use his superstition to get him to try your system over others?  Of course, you are not making any money from him in any way. 

Sam

Carlitos

I will gladly give him/her the system.  The question is stated in the poll. 

All......

Please read the premise and question carefully.  You may change your vote if you wish.


Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 18, 2009, 12:56:45 PM
The premise:

You know a person is going to begin the study of roulette.  You feel you have a winning system that you want him to try.  You honestly feel that he could do a lot worse than play your system and probably not much better.  You also know he has a superstition.

The question:  Since he is going to play anyway regardless of what you do and since you feel he would benefit from playing your system over others, would it be right or wrong for you to use his superstition to get him to try your system over others?  Of course, you are not making any money from him in any way. 

Sam

I don't know what superstition means but I think it is noot good to say to someone that you have a winner and tell him to play it..

it would be o.k if He would ask you to give him your sys...

I think if you claim that you gave him a winner and he loses money that is a bit resposible thing for you..

Boo_Ray

Superstition--an unfounded belief.

After a dice leaves the table, get new ones or a 7 will come.
Always set the dice exactly the same.
Always blow on the dice.
Always wear the same socks as long as your team is winning.
When red appears five spins in a row, black is more likely to occur.

So this fellow's superstition is one I can use to guide him to a system I feel  (FEEL is the operative word) would be in his best interest.  You're saying I should not do it?  Just let him play the Martingale?

Sam

Well if he plays martingale atleast you can tell him what NOT to do  ;D ;D ;D

Isn't using someone's superstitions to their advantage one of the primary ways con men operate? Boy, I'd love to know who answered yes.

Davey

Your use of the pronoun "their" is totally unclear.  Does "their" refer to the person who has the superstition of to other person? 

Can you give me an example whereby using a superstition to the advantage of the owner of the superstition would be wrong or somehow profitable to the second person in the equation?

That's the trouble with pronouns.  Sometimes you never know who their antecedent is.

Sam

I believe he means the person who has the system, not the superstitious one.

Of course, it's not right. It's brainwashing  :D

Roulette is a great teacher in the school of hard knocks...You'll feel better when he comes to.. u than u to him ..master...

Suppose I designed a roulette system based solely on astrology. Seeing as I am a system seller/scammer and don't have a soul I have no problem seeking the location of highest suckers per capita. Would I be wise to sell my system in Utah? Probably not. How bout outside a church on sunday? Or would I be better off selling it in Asian community where gambling and astrology are rooted in culture.

No matter how you look at it you are taking advantage of someone's weakness for your own personal gain. It's a dink move.

I understand you are not posing the question from a selling point of view. You are however manipulating him/her. People who are looking to learn should be guided in the right direction so they are able tothink for themselves, not to be manipulated for your own selfish means.

Why stop at roulette? If I know a guy who likes meeting new people should I pressure him to become a Jehovah's Witness? How about become a Vegan because he is lactose intolerant? Maybe become a Communist because he prefers betting red!

Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 18, 2009, 12:56:45 PM
The premise:

You know a person is going to begin the study of roulette.  You feel you have a winning system that you want him to try.  You honestly feel that he could do a lot worse than play your system and probably not much better.  You also know he has a superstition.

The question:  Since he is going to play anyway regardless of what you do and since you feel he would benefit from playing your system over others, would it be right or wrong for you to use his superstition to get him to try your system over others?  Of course, you are not making any money from him in any way. 

Sam

I believe everything in the question is pretty rotten. Should never "use" anyone's superstition for anything. Should ignore them or try and help them by teaching them "how" to think properly.

I have said it many times. In my view, giving anyone a system is an injustice. At the end of the day it didn't teach them a thing. The fact that one would "give" away a system proves that it's a loser. That's all I have to say. I know pretty well the thought patterns of most posters of this forum. I contemplate how some of you must feel inside about posting meaningless garbage. The pole clearly shows the percentage of trash that is here. Do you really need to ask such a question? What kind of person is going to give you the conformation you're looking for two cat?

Thank you all for your replies.

Sam

@shadownumber.

Yeah well one thing for sure is that I have never known Sam to use more then one Name on the Forum.

Nor has He been banned and reappeared as someone else.

Man some of You guys must really think We are too Dumb to see some of these things.

Your now a Guest once again.

Lanky.

Yeah..and alot of people forget casinos use cameras..well i'm puttin on the gameface and off to the cashino..best of luck to all tinte..or today or tomorrow...whatever...

Good luck pp.

Win heaps mate.

Lanky

Some people can only view the world through their own lenses.  They cannot grasp that a person would do something with the best interest of another in mind and have no ulterior motive. 

If--by whatever means--I could steer a person away from something I knew would bring him ruin and misery and toward something that would cause him to loose small amounts, I would do so.

A fellow on here proposed betting $100 bets; I advised him to use pennies.  I do not know him, but he is my fellow man.  In the eyes of some, a person can do no good.  They are truly sad people. 

I thank you, Brother.  I will no longer argue with them.  I will wish them well. 

Sam

Twocat in my opinion Davey is right. If you showed proof to this subject that the system he wanted to play would ruin him, you'd hope he wasn't that much in denial that he'd get the picture. It could be demonstrated with maths without even having to provide real results. Some people are so unreasonable that they are closed to advice. There is literally no hope for them and they will learn the hard way, particularly when it comes to casino gaming. These people have a god complex. That you think you have no ulterior motive is actually irrelevant as you're attempting to coerce this person into doing what you want, which is ethically wrong, though, yes, in this case, it's probably for his benefit. It's something of a grey area but, of course coercion happens all the time only it's on a very small scale - take a bot salesman for example...he will try to manipulate your way of thinking enough to make you buy his product, which he knows doesn't work.

Number Six

This is what I wanted: "which is ethically wrong".  My heading was, after all, "An Ethics Question".   Had I known the answer, I would not have asked the question.

I do not like to go into religion, but I will give you an example.  A person smokes.  I firmly believe and have the medical evidence that smoking kills.  This man does not believe that.  However, he does have this nagging idea that it is a sin and God will punish him for polluting the "house of God" in that his body is the "house of God".  I know I cannot help him quit with science, so I will go at him from the religious angle and agree that he is right:  He is polluting the "Temple of the Lord" and he may very well go to hell for it.

He quits smoking.  Does the end justify the means?  Have I served my friend by playing on his superstition?

Not everything is about roulette.  Frankly, I can't remember why I posted that as it's been a year ago. 

As to the bot, you have convinced me I was wrong to even test it and post the results.  If any person can show me an e-mail or post where I advised them to buy the bot and if they are unhappy and want their money back, I will PayPal them the $250 they spent buying it.  There is only one person who I even slightly encouraged to buy the bot and then I told him to proceed at his own risk.  Yet if he wants his money back, so be it.

I recently told a person on this forum something like this:  I can truthfully tell you that the thing has done X.  Whether or not it will do X in the future, I simply don't know.  I think it will, but I can't promise you it will.

I get no money from Matt.  I have tried to give him money.  He will not accept it.  I have no need for more money.  Yesterday I spent $700 for a new computer because I need three to work with the bot and study the spins I've collected.  Yes, I have three computers running to work on the bot.

Number Six, there are two things you should know:  1.  This is my hobby.  2.  I have never stolen a penny from anyone to buy these computers or anything else. 

I do regret you have such a low opinion of me.  People who truly know me will tell you I am a good person.

Peace to you in 2010.

Your friend,

TwoCatSam

Hey Twocats

I didn't mean to imply YOU were the bot salesman. There might have been an insinuation there but it wasn't aimed at you.

In regards to your question, it is only my opinion that it's ethically wrong. But as you're not trying to manipulate said person for your own gain it falls into a grey area. I'm sure everyone has different viewpoints on what is acceptable and what isn't.

Here's another ethics question which I've been struggling with recently. Would you feel comfortable being a member of a certain roulette forum which is owned by someone who sells roulette systems? You may not know whether the systems sold are "genuine winners" but you do know that the seller has been convicted for fraud.

I apologize for digging up the old thread, I saw the January date and didn't look that closely.  :rtfm:  :punish:

Anyway, there is another point to look at aswell. I'm not trying to open the whole systems always lose debate but, seeing as you are giving advice to someone to play a system that has a losing expectation overall, would you not be better off to tell them instead that they may have a gambling problem? I do think "gambling problem" is a term that is thrown out far too much these days especially to roulette players. However, I am never a fan of someone playing a game that they aren't educated about. If the player in question is making such basic mistakes, would you not be better off to discourage him from playing the game at this point in time? At least this way you are saving him money and not costing him any. That's the most ethical in my mind.

Tangram

That I'll leave lying where I found it.

As for the rest of this thread, I am through with it.  I worded it wrong from the beginning.  I should have said, "If you know a person is going to play a system you absolutely know will lose quickly and lose lots of money,........"

I maintain that if this person were going to play the Martingale on red, I would be doing him a favor by steering him onto something where I know his losses would come slower.  If they come slower, he may come to his senses before loosing his house.

It was only a hypothetical question, but so help me God, if you ever hear a man in a bathroom crying his heart out because he lost God-only-knows how much, you never forget it.  If you have any compassion whatsoever for your fellow man, you will wish you could have caught him at the first race and stopped him.

I'm done.

Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on January 09, 2010, 12:52:57 PM
I do not like to go into religion, but I will give you an example.  A person smokes.  I firmly believe and have the medical evidence that smoking kills.  This man does not believe that.  However, he does have this nagging idea that it is a sin and God will punish him for polluting the "house of God" in that his body is the "house of God".  I know I cannot help him quit with science, so I will go at him from the religious angle and agree that he is right:  He is polluting the "Temple of the Lord" and he may very well go to hell for it.

He quits smoking.  Does the end justify the means?  Have I served my friend by playing on his superstition?

That's a ridiculous statement to make TCS, smoking has nothing to do with Christianity in that it is wrong. My answer to your original ethics question is; people know the difference between right and wrong. Though everyone has a differing veiw of what is right and what is wrong. There is no right answer to this question.