VLS Roulette Forum

Hello.

Right off the bat, I would like to thank the moderators and vets for all the time, ideas and support they brought here. A special mention to TwoCatSam and Lanky for being such tester and teachers, and a very special mention to Victor for the bringing of the Lw brilliant revelation to our world of roulette. I have been reading your posts for two-three months, have learnt a lot, thank you all, once again !

I am also a member of a french roulette forum. We certainly have no lesson to take from here when it comes to feuds, name calling and all unefficient things (sadly). If fighting against each other was the real game, then we would always finish in the top three. :(

Both forums have something in common : very few people got the Enygmista-Gamlet-Pascal triangle right (I know at least two french that got it), but the info they left for us ordinary people have not been enough to see the light so far.

There is more sharing spirit here, that is for sure, and this is one of my starting point, as I am going to suggest an implementation of another set of brilliant ideas originated from Compa – LeBear – 17Black : the cadence.  :thumbsup:
Second starting point, it took me some time to grasp the mechanic of Lw, but when I got it, wow !  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Third noticeable thing, in all my readings of the aforementioned « cadence », someone suggested this would be a good idea to combine this with the Lw.  :thumbsup:

Cheers.  :)

Stepydan.

So, a while ago, I started to play "cadence" the 17Black way :

• three groups : 0357; 1269; and 48
• start betting as soon as one number hit in any of the three groups
• keep betting until rules of abandonment apply etc.

I would kindly refer those of you who don't know the « cadence » ideas to the corresponding original thread (easy with the search function), since mine is an adaptation of it.

So I was playing but felt confused and/or struck by two things :

• when to really start – stop playing (even with the clear original cadence rules)
• when the « 48 » cadence did hit, it could hurt real bad while in recovery mode, because those sets of numbers were long time sleepers, thus tended to be ignored.

Then (recently) I came to the real understanding of the Lw thing, and I thought that was a smart way of reducing a three part event into two. Indeed, with Victor, Lanky etc, you basically take either three dozens or three columns, and reduce it to « hit of the last two » (W) or « did not hit the last two » (L). So two possibilities (just like the root 0 and 1 in electricity or computers).This is for the LD or LC, easy to get from there the variations with JD and JC.

So now someone suggested to apply Lw to the cadence system. Very good, there are also 3 possibilities (0357; 1269; and 48). But still the 48 was a nag.

Cheers.  :)

Stepydan.

So I decided to include the offending 48 into the remaining groups. The result is there is only two cadences to monitor :

• 03457
• 12689

Then I apply the rules of our wise vets and admins about « Lw » :

• one time is ordinary, two times is an event, three times is a trend (can't remember the exact words, but this comes from Victor). So whenever you see a cadence appear 3 times in a row, you jump in and back it until next « L »
• three « L » in a row kill any trend or pattern
• monitor and track « Lw », « LLw » with the « three times is a trend – do not bet until you see those things happen three times in a row » principle indelibly stamped.

There is one event that I still dread so far : when you get « nolinks » in the « 03457 » cadence tracker, you jump in and play sometimes for three times, if   your tracker validated « Lw » and « LLw ». But then, when you have three losses in a row, that means you have a new trend in the « 12689 » tracker. If you jump in and lose again, that is 4 losses in a row, not good for the BR !

I have been testing this at Dublinbet for two days now, with very good results. The cadences are easy to monitor with one or two notepads. I intend to make a complex and beautiful calc spreadsheet the minute I will decide this system is a keeper.

On my todo list also : if this is working beautifully, see what this would do with « authentic » and well known « two-way » events : red – black, even – odd, low – high.

That's one of the reason I would appreciate any comment, reaction, suggestions, etc.

Cheers.  :)

Stepydan.

Stepydan, I'm very very glad of you being around here improving and trying the LW methodology, and yes, it can be applied to catch cycles on many selections; I'm gladly surprised to see you used cadences.

Personally, I'm now into the "Automated Grinds" and Lanky is the man to ask now regarding LW.

Some time ago we both took part of it and he said he would continue with Lw as it was being profitable,and for me too, yet I think the learning and research on this game is endless and I wanted to take the challenge of the quest for the "Automated Grind" -for the benefit of the roulette community- and well, I'm actively developing this interesting approach of using roulette's nature to wrap methodologies around it without any human intervention.

All in all, I hope you find yourself a place in our community and may we have Stepydan for the long run in the times to come.

Hey! Perhaps Compa, LeBear or 17Black can come around and comment on your interesting approach.

Regards,
Victor

Hi Stepydan .

Very Clever approach Mate.
I enjoyed the read.

I have Two Suggestions Mate that May help.

1> I would go back & look at the LLw Pattern I would be surprised if thats not a winner for You Mate.

In other words I would not wait for the LLw to hit 3 Times.

I would bet after LL <<bet here for w to come.

Because it normally hits approx 88% on the Lw's in the Methods on the Dozens & Columns.

I would be very Interested in those results doing it Your Way with the Cadences.

2> IF You are NOT flat betting the numbers then I would suggest You Use a 35 point Divisor with a Win Target of 1 as You betting Method.
It would look like this.

35/1=1 <<to bet on each numbers
once the amount got above the 35 it will automatically tell You how much to bet Like this

35/36=2 << to bet on each Number.

Stay in Touch Mate as I really enjoyed Your post & Let Me/Us the Forum know the Results.

Your Friend.

Lanky.

Good call Lanky,

the 35 pt divisor is a personal favorite of mine.

Cheers,
Matt

Quote from: MattyMattz on April 06, 2009, 12:04:23 AM
Good call Lanky,

the 35 pt divisor is a personal favorite of mine.

Cheers,
Matt

Great Thanks Matt.

I knew You loved it the 1st Time I showed it to You.

It is a clever little thing isn't it Mate.

Lanky.

Hello Lanky



First I am pleased to talk to you, Victor, etc, for **real** after spending so much time reading all those great contributors !

I am also glad you found some interest in what I have come up with. I must add I would have come up with nothing without all those original ideas : Lw and cadence. Plus the true value of my add-on is yet to be measured, with enough testing.

So, not many tests so far, due to the freshness of it, but here I have attached the text file I used to track numbers and patterns at Dublinbet yesterday, in case you would like to have a look. [This is one single session. I just pasted the cadences from time to time to avoid scrolling all the way up]

Again, the biggest problem is when you get :

• Tracker "03457" : ...LnolinksLLLnolinksLLL
• and in the same time, Tracker : "12689" : ...wLLLnolinksLLLnolinks

My temporary solution is when you take the first blow (you jumped on "nolinks", lost three times, then jumped on opposite cadence that turns to "L" right when you jump,  :-\ , you just spin and wait 'til better times to come. That is wait until a usable pattern reforms.
[Edit : maybe we can consider those as "LLw"s or "LLww"s patterns ?  ??? ]

As for the money, I use the original cadence suggestion : a progression of 112. If no hit, then stop betting until the next trigger happens. Then new progression : 224. Etc.
Stop after :

• first hit when you chase pattern "Lw" or "LLw" and got your "w", or
• second hit when you chase pattern "Lww"
• no hit for three times when you ride the "ws"

When you get a hit, reset the progression to 112. This is not rigid, though. When the BR is below the level it should be, I keep the 224 until I come back in plus.
With practice, I may change my mind regarding those progressions.

Cheers.  :)

Stepydan.

Hi Stepydan,

Personally I believe the Cadence groups to be as follows:

1 & 6
2 & 7
3 & 8
4 & 9
5 & 0

Cheers
Jakk

Hi Guys,

Here's a Excel LW Tracker for the cadences.

Let me know if it needs changes..

:thumbsup:

nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=311 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=311)

Hi Stepydan .

Mate I have copied your Lw notations to word and will play them as I would the Lw Method when I get time.

I don't chase the W's as much as some people may think.

The reason is because of what You have here when your betting the W's in a continues fashion the 3L's will kill You if they come at a constant rate.

That" why I have a 2 stop Loss.
And if I am Chasing the W's and LL comes then I stop and that denys Me the chance to play the LLw and the LLLw patterns with My 2 stop loss.

[quoteYou put

Again, the biggest problem is when you get :
Tracker "03457" : ...LnolinksLLLnolinksLLL
and in the same time, Tracker : "12689" : ...wLLLnolinksLLLnolinks
][/quote]

See here in these short examples there is no evidence for Me to be betting the W's Yet.
I will Put My Bets here marked in brackets.
Tracker "03457" : ...LnolinksLL(Lw)wwLL(L)<<and waiting for the W to come.
Or if that pattern has been comeing then I would disable the LLw and enable the LLLw pattern
Like this
Tracker "03457" : ...LnolinksLL(Lw)wwLLL( << Now bet
And its the exact same thing for the other cadence.
and in the same time, Tracker : "12689" : ...wLL(Lw)wwLLL(w)ww

Now after saying all that the way I do it may not be suitable for the Cadence Method..We wil see Mate.

I will do more Later for You My Friend.

Lanky.

PS: can You tell Me how many Numbers are in each set that You play ??
Like This
Tracker "03457" := How Many Numbers ???
Tracker : "12689" := How Many Numbers ???

Hi guys  :)

QuoteHere's a Excel LW Tracker for the cadences.

Well, thank you MXkid77, your tracker was on my todo list, it is not anymore  ;)

Quotethen I would disable the LLw and enable the LLLw pattern
Like this
Tracker "03457" : ...LnolinksLL(Lw)wwLLL( << Now bet
And its the exact same thing for the other cadence.

Lanky, this is a very interesting idea, I'll give it a shot this very day and will let you know ! Thank you !

QuoteTracker "03457" := How Many Numbers ???
Tracker : "12689" := How Many Numbers  ???

When you place a bet with "03457", that is 19 numbers to put a chip on. With "12689", that's 18 numbers.  So before somebody points this out :

• maybe this is no different than playing half the wheel regardless of what is the final digit of each number, but
• Compa - LeBear - 17Black stressed cadence numbers tend to come very often together. So maybe this way of playing half the wheel is more efficient. For the moment I am not going to do calculations to decide whether it is equivalent or not, and
• I made one or two attempts to combine this with the original "Lw" with dozens or columns, so that the betting concerns the cadence your trackers told you to play and only in the dozens - columns your other tracker told you to play. So you have fewer chips to put down. I did not go further than 2 - 3 attempts, because it is the beginning, so I want to refine the pattern part first, and
• what I like about this is you bypass known binaries : red-black, even-odd, low-high. Those can be traps for inexperienced roulette players. Not that I am very old at roulette playing myself, far from it, but I certainly like asking questions such as "What if" or "Is there another way to"

You guys rock ! I feel like this is a team !  8)

Cheers  :)

Stepydan

QuoteI feel like this is a team!

This IS a team Stepy: We all against the wheel! :thumbsup:

By the way, some people seem to be afraid of interacting under the assumption of their question being too basic / unimportant, but as you can see, we are all together and embrace newcomers with a welcome carpet :)

So for those who would like to participate of the debate, even a little, you can use that reply button or register.

Everyone's contributions are worth! :thumbsup:

Regards.
Victor

Ok everybody

Playing roulette takes time  :P

I said I would test. Here is attached my today tracking with the help of MXkid77 handy Excel spreadsheet. (Dublinbet, table 1)

There are good and bad news.

The bad ones :
1. have I played for real, I would have lost a lot  :o :'( (well, essentially because of testing all sorts of things, and not caring much about the outcome)
2. patterns similar to the ones with dozens - columns do appear, but they are not stable enough. It is dangerous to play them. So the reality check led me to change my mind, compared to what I have previously written while presenting my ideas.

The good ones :
1. I am glad I tested it without any money engaged  :P . This is exactly what testing is for : try one thing out, then another, etc
2. We now have real data to analyze. I have seen patterns form, but haven't been able to really analyze them as I was playing. After I get some rest, I will take my time to study it.

So, what can I say so far ?

* the safe way to play would be similar to some basic strategies on red-black, low, high, even-odd. In this case, it would be the following : wait for 5 consecutive misses (5 "L"s), then bet using a progression of 1122. In today's data, the longest "L" trend counts 8, I think. Here a sim would be handy to find out how many "L"s in a row can be expected in the long term. Hopefully we could go beyond horror stories like 23 reds in a row, dozen sleeping 17 times, etc, because colors and the table layout are not - apparently - related to cadences.
* since there are many trends of 3 to 4 "w"s in a row, maybe we can figure out a way to play them also, so that we flat bet, and we win more than lose. I'll try to find this out later.

Let me know what you think,

Cheers  :)

Stepydan

[attachmini=#]

Correction ....  ;)

Look at tonight's session at Dublinbet, table 2 (Excel spreadsheet attached).

There patterns match exactly what we know with the original "Lw" method with dozen - columns.

See the beautiful "Lw"s, "LLw"s and also nice trends that don't break when you jump on them  :)
We have also several "LLLw"s (Lanky  ;))

This allowed me to regain a big chunk of my lost virtual BR.
I went from € 1600 to slightly above € 2000. This is not real money, and I was betting big, one time € 20 per number, frequently € 10 per number. I don't mind betting big while testing, this way you get rid of the fear of loss, and can focus on analyzing the situation and making more rational moves.

So ?

• Well maybe I was right in the first place (see Reply # 7) : when patterns don't form as forecasted, change table or change to another online casino ? Or spin until the proper situation comes ? (or maybe better go for a walk and come back later  :) )
• I have to add the dealer might have its importance as well : in today's session, there was plenty of almost violently throwing the ball. Whereas tonight, the dealers were all quite soft and smooth with it. You might notice also repeaters that reinforce this point.

I know some of you like to test with permanences from Wiesbaden, other use RX. I would pretty much enjoy some additional testing, if anybody feels like doing it, that would be great !

Cheers  :)

Stepydan.

P.S : included is also a session from this evening with BetVoyager (Rng that claims to be "clean"). This was a piece of cake !  From € 500 to slightly above € 700 in less than 25 spins !  8) This time I was betting 2 units per number, and maybe 3 - 4 times 4 units per number.

[attachmini=#]

[attachmini=#]

... and things are getting better  :)

Attached is my last session at Dublinbet, where there are both wanted and unwanted patterns.

I managed to cope with the unwanted ones, and to exploit  >:D the good ones.

You  may like this file, since I have included detailed comments on how I played and added 200 (virtual) € to my BR.  8)

Cheers,  :)

Stepydan.

P.S : somehow my post "Reply # 13" had to be "not so happy". Replies # 13 should not exist in such a forum.  :P

Well Stepy, it is "showing form", isn't it? Kudos and thanks for sharing your tests with us.

Remember they do not have to be exactly like the dozens/columns! These cadences may have their own patterns which is okay, what you are looking for is consistency, events you can spot and which are somehow clumping and frequent enough to lay your chips on them.

Yesterday I comented with dealer friend, Lanky's wheel is located in Australia and he plays here at Venezuela, yet the same Lw patterns work as they are using roulette's true nature and therefore they are universal. Now that's consistency!  :)

Regards,
Victor

Hey Stepydan! Im glad you exploited the Cadences mate. Ill try it out this way

Good Job!

Cheers
/Compa

Hello all

For those who wonder what happened next, here is my conclusion : don't try this.  It is not efficient, and its basis is wrong.  Here are the two reasons why :

• First there is a conceptual mistake : my starting point was to put a three part event into 2 possibilities, like the original "Lw" on dozens-columns.  I turned this into "did the ball land 2 times in a row in the same cadence or not" ? This is wrong thinking.  The original idea behind "Lw" is "did the ball hit either one of the last two dozens".  So to incorporate the "48" cadence into the remaining two was but the continuation of this misconception.
  I would had better said : "ok, consider the 3 cadences as 3 groups, then ask : did the ball hit any of the last 2 groups", so no need to get rid of the "48".


• Second there is a beginner mistake (the beginner being myself) : insufficient testing.   At first sight, it seemed I had found a good representation of how the game was behaving, because my "Lw" tracking of the 2 - 3 first series were encouraging.   But further tests proved reality did not follow my system, (much) more often than it did.  In addition, the "Lw" original rules could not apply, there were no consistency.  I. e you have three "Lw"s, you are happy, you bet next "L" and boom here comes chaos : LLLLL, or anything different than the expected "Lw".

In statistics, there is a theorem that states you can approximate a binomial distribution by a normal one when "n" goes past 50.  I did not even test my ideas on 10 permanences before posting ! So forget about all laws, and of course accuracy of analysis !

There is good in all this, though.  As for me, it helped a lot thinking about roulette.  Indeed, putting my ideas down into words got them out of my head, forced me to formalize them, and to see clearly where it was wrong afterwards.  No writing, no seeing (or at least, nearly not as clearly).
So I pushed the analysing process further, but this would be the subject for another thread.

Admin and Mods, if you want to pull this thread down in order to save space or time for future readers, I certainly would not mind.

Cheers,  :)

Stepydan.

P. S : many thanks to all contributors for their time and efforts.