VLS Roulette Forum

Main => Money Management => Topic started by: Drogan on November 29, 2007, 08:52:41 PM

Title: Help with Progression
Post by: Drogan on November 29, 2007, 08:52:41 PM
Can someone please post the bet progression on lines and streets?

Appearantly I am doing something wrong. :-[

Thanks
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: MattyMattz on November 29, 2007, 10:03:30 PM
Hey,

what kind of progression are you looking for?  One that always ends up in the green when you win?  Or one that breaks even or close to it after a win?  What are your betting units? (1$,nickles,dimes?)

Cheers,
Matt
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: admin on November 29, 2007, 10:40:39 PM
QuoteCan someone please post the bet progression on lines and streets?

How many lines covered dear friend?

I can make from 1 line covered to 5 lines covered in a snap, but you better also find some time to discuss bet selection and your strategy before losing more than that shirt mate. :-/

Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Drogan on November 30, 2007, 03:44:13 AM
Mattz,

I am talking about a progression where you end up in the black. Even if it just one or two units. I know lines payout 7:1 and streets payout 10:1, but I don't have a good head for math so I am unclear as to how many spins to let it go before I raise in order to stay ahead.
And to answer your second question, You can post for $1 units and $5 units, I rarely bet more than 5 units at the start of any cycle.

Victor,
If you are betting the same amount of units on each line....does it matter how many lines you are playing? Don't you have to raise your bet on each line accordingly?


Thanks for all the help guys.  [smiley=smiley.gif]
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on November 30, 2007, 04:55:28 AM
First things, if you know of a casino that pays 7 : 1 on the roulette table lines please share - i'd be rich in no time  :D

I think u mean 5 : 1 as there are 6 lines and it roulettes skewed odds that give the casino an advantage (lines pay 5 : 1 but there are in fact 6 lines).

As for a progression there are many - but how do you want your profit to come out?

Constant (x amount of dollars no matter what stage in the progression?)

Linear (Constantly increasing as you go further into the progression?)

OR

Exponential (as you go further into the progression you gain more and more profit [multiplies by "x"])




Ill give you a progression that allows the most number of "steps" in it (goes for the longest)

If playing on the Lines (pays 5 : 1 for covering a 6 number group) start at $1 and bet as follows...

1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 19, 24, 30, 37, 47, 58, 73, 91, 114, 142, 178, 222, 278, 347

Now that progression is as conservative as you can get and doesn't really offer much payout - the max profit is made on the first spin - a sum of $5 and from there on it ranges from $0 profit (no loss no gain) to $2 profit - as i mentioned this a REALLY conservative progression (without going into amounts less then a dollar).




A more suitable one is below.

2, 4, 6, 10, 12, 16, 20, 26, 32, 40, 50, 65, 80, 100, 125, 158, 200, 250, 315, 395

This now is a shorter progression but offers a linear (constantly increasing profit while the progression before hand was constant profit [around $1 - $4 profit per win]) towards the end you will pocket a profit of $70 if you win on the last spin using this above progression.



And finally an exponential progression where your profit is multiplied as you go further in the progression.

2, 4, 6, 12, 26, 46, 76, 120, 180, 264, 380, 535

Now with this progression you would have to invest alot of money in it and it is a risky progression only having 12 steps BUT if the outcome of roulette were perfect you would expect 2 hits per each line in 12 spins and an average profit of $134 per hit - IF roulettes outcomes were perfect.

If you ask me i would go for the linear progression of 2, 4, 6, 10, 12, 16, 20, 26, 32, 40, 50, 65, 80, 100, 125, 158, 200, 250, 315, 395 out of all of them.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Drogan on November 30, 2007, 11:25:41 AM
AP,

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

This is exactly what I needed!

Also, do you have a good system to predict when and what lines will hit. I have been trying to play elastic lines and I am not doing so well with that. There has to be a better line system out there.

Do you have the same type of chart for streets and corners? That would be very useful as well!

Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on November 30, 2007, 01:11:35 PM
Hi Drogan,

VLS has a great line system whereby you watched Lw patterns on line skips, you could probably use that progression that AP mentions and do very very well.
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on November 30, 2007, 05:05:45 PM
AP, just wanted to give you payout/loss amounts for the progressions you presented.

First of all, here is the lowest scale that I calculated (different than yours except for number of spins):

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      1      (1)      5
2      1      (2)      4
3      1      (3)      3
4      1      (4)      2
5      1      (5)      1
6      2      (7)      5
7      2      (9)      3
8      2      (11)      1
9      3      (14)      4
10      3      (17)      1
11      4      (21)      3
12      5      (26)      4
13      6      (32)      4
14      7      (39)      3
15      8      (47)      1
16      10      (57)      3
17      12      (69)      3
18      14      (83)      1
19      17      (100)      2
20      21      (121)      5
21      25      (146)      4
22      30      (176)      4
23      36      (212)      4
24      43      (255)      3
25      52      (307)      5
26      62      (369)      3
27      74      (443)      1
28      89      (532)      2
29      107      (639)      3
30      128      (767)      1
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on November 30, 2007, 05:06:10 PM
Second is your lowest one you produced:

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      1      (1)      5
2      1      (2)      4
3      1      (3)      3
4      1      (4)      2
5      1      (5)      1
6      2      (7)      5
7      2      (9)      3
8      3      (12)      6
9      3      (15)      3
10      4      (19)      5
11      5      (24)      6
12      6      (30)      6
13      8      (38)      10
14      10      (48)      12
15      12      (60)      12
16      15      (75)      15
17      19      (94)      20
18      24      (118)      26
19      30      (148)      32
20      37      (185)      37
21      47      (232)      50
22      58      (290)      58
23      73      (363)      75
24      91      (454)      92
25      114      (568)      116
26      142      (710)      142
27      178      (888)      180
28      222      (1110)      222
29      278      (1388)      280
30      347      (1735)      347
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on November 30, 2007, 05:06:31 PM
Here is the third one (the one you recommend):

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      2      (2)      10
2      4      (6)      18
3      6      (12)      24
4      10      (22)      38
5      12      (34)      38
6      16      (50)      46
7      20      (70)      50
8      26      (96)      60
9      32      (128)      64
10      40      (168)      72
11      50      (218)      82
12      65      (283)      107
13      80      (363)      117
14      100      (463)      137
15      125      (588)      162
16      158      (746)      202
17      200      (946)      254
18      250      (1196)      304
19      315      (1511)      379
20      395      (1906)      464
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on November 30, 2007, 05:06:46 PM
And the ultra aggressive one:

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      2      (2)      10
2      4      (6)      18
3      6      (12)      24
4      12      (24)      48
5      26      (50)      106
6      46      (96)      180
7      76      (172)      284
8      120      (292)      428
9      180      (472)      608
10      264      (736)      848
11      380      (1116)      1164
12      535      (1651)      1559
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on November 30, 2007, 05:08:26 PM
I think a good thing to do would be to play a REVERSE VLS MARCH on LINES, meaning that you are chasing the L.

Either you could do LINE SKIPS or LINE REPEATS and use the progressions above. It's a good way to play in my opinion.
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on November 30, 2007, 09:39:49 PM
Heres some progressions for the Streets (Pays 11 : 1)

Ill give you a progression that offers a steadily increasing profit (linear) as i think its better than a extremely conservative one and an aggressive one.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.5, 12, 13.5, 15, 16.5, 18.5, 21, 23.5, 26, 29, 32.5, 36, 40, 44.5, 50.5, 56, 62, 68.5, 77, 85.5, 94, 105, 116, 129, 144, 160

Now this gives you a 35 step progression but because it involves half of a unit you could multiply each number in the sequence buy 2 and play with 2 dollar chips - but then it would cut your progression length in half - or just round them up say from 23.5 to 24.

Heres a progression for Corners (pays 8 : 1)

Its a 40 step progression that gives a linear (slightly exponential) profit

1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6 ,7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16, 19, 22, 26, 30, 35, 41, 47, 54, 63, 72, 83, 96, 110, 127, 146, 168, 193, 222, 255, 293, 336, 386, 443, 508, 582

Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on November 30, 2007, 09:48:51 PM
QuoteAP,

Also, do you have a good system to predict when and what lines will hit.


If only we knew haha  ;D

Umm lets see, if your playing streets, lines, corners etc that are on the BOARD its best to chart an appropriate number of spins (say watch for 16 -20 spins and chart the streets, watch 8 -14 spins and chart the lines, or watch 10 - 18 spins and chart the corners) and then see which line, street or corner came up the most then play that with the suitable above progressions until you win and restart (or you can play it again if you notice it being a good repeater for the day).

But if you want to bet on the WHEEL - you can watch "lines", "Streets" or "corners" on the wheel - i mean groups of 3, 4 or 6 on the wheel - 3 number side by side etc.

Now you require some maths for this but say u are playing 6 numbers side by side on the wheel. You chart how many hits those numbers get after 61 spins - now if you get less then 2 hits on those 6 number your set to play them for 61 spins.

Now this take lots of time but this way you can flat bet and SHOULD come out with a profit i've applied similar maths to dozen sectors of the wheel and have made huge profits while only flat betting. I think i might post this strategy up soon seeing as its the only method i have played that hasn't failed yet - even with 10K profit made on it.

Also the advantage of this way is that if you chart the spins - you then can "make" your dozen ie look around the wheel for a group of 12 with less than the given number of hits. I definitely have to post my strategy now!

Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: admin on November 30, 2007, 11:16:50 PM
QuoteI definitely have to post my strategy now!

Looking forward to it mate. Looks like a good "waker-methodology-like" one.  :toppie :toppie :toppie :toppie :toppie [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Drogan on December 01, 2007, 03:53:07 PM
Wow AP!

I played your linear progression on line bets today.

You are right! When your line finally comes in you really PROFIT!

So glad you posted that!

The more money we make, the less time we spend at the table. The less time we spend at the table, the less chances the house odds have a chance to take over.

Thanks again, man. YOU ROCK!

[smiley=cool.gif]
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on December 01, 2007, 09:53:27 PM
no problem man - while being bored on school holidays i REALLY needed something to do!
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on December 01, 2007, 10:07:05 PM
Holy Crap...

I tired my line progression and MAN it worked great - watch 20 -25 spins (even 15 is enough) find the line that repeated the most (dominant) and bet using the progression and wow...

25 spins after my 25 spins of charting i made 300 bucks in Roulette Extreme!!!

This is great like 12 profit made per spin!!!

This is good news i will try all my other progressions too - but the lines will be the most effective as they have a high tendency to repeat!

UPDATE: i tried to make progressions for the other bets (splits and straight up) and the profit become sawtoothed (up down up down) because the high payouts of of 17 : 1 and 35 : 1 and adding 1 unit in the progression really messes things up - anyway the lines seem as the best bets yet.
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 03, 2007, 05:23:35 PM
A.P. - good work. I think we could apply these progressions to an Lw-type betting selection to get the best results. What do you think Victor?

As for your other progressions that I have charted in Excel for you on Friday, here are your others:

STREETS:

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      1      (1)      11
2      2      (3)      21
3      3      (6)      30
4      4      (10)      38
5      5      (15)      45
6      6      (21)      51
7      7      (28)      56
8      8      (36)      60
9      9      (45)      63
10      10.5      (56)      71
11      12      (68)      77
12      13.5      (81)      81
13      15      (96)      84
14      16.5      (113)      86
15      18      (131)      86
16      21      (152)      101
17      23.5      (175)      107
18      26      (201)      111
19      29      (230)      118
20      32.5      (263)      128
21      36      (299)      134
22      40      (339)      142
23      44.5      (383)      151
24      50.5      (434)      173
25      56      (490)      183
26      62      (552)      193
27      68.5      (620)      202
28      77      (697)      227
29      85.5      (783)      244
30      94      (877)      252
31      105      (982)      279
32      116      (1098)      295
33      129      (1227)      322
34      144      (1371)      358
35      160      (1531)      390
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 03, 2007, 05:23:51 PM
CORNERS:

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      1      (1)      8
2      2      (3)      15
3      2      (5)      13
4      3      (8)      19
5      3      (11)      16
6      4      (15)      21
7      5      (20)      25
8      5      (25)      20
9      6      (31)      23
10      7      (38)      25
11      9      (47)      34
12      11      (58)      41
13      12      (70)      38
14      14      (84)      42
15      16      (100)      44
16      19      (119)      52
17      22      (141)      57
18      26      (167)      67
19      30      (197)      73
20      35      (232)      83
21      41      (273)      96
22      47      (320)      103
23      54      (374)      112
24      63      (437)      130
25      72      (509)      139
26      83      (592)      155
27      96      (688)      176
28      110      (798)      192
29      127      (925)      218
30      146      (1071)      243
31      168      (1239)      273
32      193      (1432)      305
33      222      (1654)      344
34      255      (1909)      386
35      293      (2202)      435
36      336      (2538)      486
37      386      (2924)      550
38      443      (3367)      620
39      508      (3875)      697
40      582      (4457)      781
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 03, 2007, 05:24:09 PM
And do you have any for dozens at this point?
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 03, 2007, 05:34:58 PM
I devised some with ONE DOZEN or Column:

Base progression:

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      1      (1)      2
2      1      (2)      1
3      2      (4)      2
4      3      (7)      2
5      4      (11)      1
6      6      (17)      1
7      9      (26)      1
8      14      (40)      2
9      21      (61)      2
10      31      (92)      1
11      47      (139)      2
12      70      (209)      1
13      105      (314)      1
14      158      (472)      2
15      237      (709)      2
16      355      (1064)      1
17      533      (1597)      2
18      799      (2396)      1
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 03, 2007, 05:35:13 PM
Slightly more aggressive:

Spin      Units      If Loss      If Win
1      1      (1)      2
2      2      (3)      3
3      3      (6)      3
4      5      (11)      4
5      8      (19)      5
6      12      (31)      5
7      18      (49)      5
8      27      (76)      5
9      41      (117)      6
10      62      (179)      7
11      93      (272)      7
12      140      (412)      8
13      210      (622)      8
14      315      (937)      8
15      473      (1410)      9
16      710      (2120)      10
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on December 04, 2007, 12:47:17 PM
One of my most successful dozen progressions is betting 150% of your previous bet - so when you win on a dozen/column you win 200% of your bet (pays 2 : 1) regardless of what stage into the progression.

So

Start @ $25

25
37.5
56.25
84.38
126.56
189.84
284.77
427.14
640.71
961.07

However i round this off to amounts where i can use 5, 25 and 100 chips to play such as...

25
40
60
90
135
205
310
470
705
1060

Ive used this progression while betting on the last column or dozen that came up - and although it does make money very quickly it inst a "winning" system as you will lose (like with most progressions) so i haven't really got this past the testing stage yet.
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 04, 2007, 01:06:41 PM
Yes indeed. There might need some Lw methodology applied here. What would you say to a 24-number progression?
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on December 05, 2007, 12:26:58 AM
Not to keen on 2 dozen/column (24 number) progressions since the classic "triple as you lose" method is as conservative as you can get yet it reaches table limits almost instantly.
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: cps10 on December 05, 2007, 10:53:43 AM
That is what I was thinking as well. Has your 12-number system continued to flourish?
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: Advantage.Player on December 05, 2007, 09:04:02 PM
Nah, i just gave up on progressions all together (well ones where the final bet is like 20 times the amount of profit you make in the end). But my my line one seems to be working still.
Title: Re: Help with Progression
Post by: admin on December 05, 2007, 10:31:11 PM
QuoteI think we could apply these progressions to an Lw-type betting selection to get the best results. What do you think Victor?

I think a person should lose only if a "cosmic" dispersion arises.

Remember the first commandment of th esmart gambler: Thou shall never bet every spin to "swallow" the whole dispersion, better to have a shot and forcing roulette to a concatenated stream of bad streaks rather than only 1.

This is why it is important to use the "frequent events" and force roulette to only kill you with the concatenation of several infrequent losing events.

Example: The waker methodology. That is a frequent event, for the game to try to compensate the section after it hits. You should only lose if every single time you enter you face a prolonged dispersion, the concatenation of negative events (oh well, it does happen, YOU need to make the difference on how you are facing it. Losing your shirt or losing the least to recoup later).