I have just tried this system and it looked quite good. I win 1000 units in 1 to 2 hours however I should like my name says back out while I can. It seems too good to be true. So I need you to check this for me. Take about 12 spins and mark the numbers on a roulette card that they give you at the casino. It dosen't matter if it is a single or double zero wheel. Then look and see what sector is the largest without a hit in it. Start a progression on those numbers starting with 5 units. When you get a hit take all the units back down to 5 from your progression. I noticed I hardly every work up above 12 units per number. Always play on the sector that is the largest. For instance you will be playing a sector and it will get a hit, now instead of it being 10 numbers wide it will now be 6 on one side and 3 on the other, then look to see if another sector on the card is larger than 6 numbers and play that one. Work the card down till you have sectors with 1 or 2 and then play them all. I am talking about sleepers or sectors with out hits. When the card is full or 4 numbers from being full I usually start over. So far I have played for a week and am 4000 positive with an average playing time of 1 1/2 hours. I cleard 1000 units in 20 min once. Please let me know how you do. Yes I am serious. . . . . but I am probably seriously lucky.
The best system you will ever find is at nolinks.genuinewinner.com
Perhaps the only problem with this is if there are alot of repeating numbers. . . . . . . . You may have to combine this with another system for instance: if a number repeats add a value to that number (to cover the law of the third), if it hits again add another value (chips) to it, keep track of repeats and get rid of the ones that don't hit in 35 spins. With all bets it is wise to keep a log of the probability curve or exponetial curve. If you want I can explain this further. . . but don't want to insult your intellegence if you already know what this is. Still waiting comments of what you think.
Don't be shy mate,shoot it.
All ears.................Iboba 8) 8)
Hi know when to quit,
It looks like an interesting way of play, i dont recall hearing about this before.
Would be great if someone would code it to get a large test sample.
Anyway, thanks for sharing :good:
Best Regards
Kingpin
Hi man, great to hear that you won that much! I envy you hehe :)
I want to try it, but first I want to make sure I get it, so, can you please provide us with a complete session showing us the numbers that start appearing and the bets you placed on each sector along with the progression you made? so that there can't be mistakes.
For example.
Spin # Bet
1 7 -
2 8 -
3 18 $5
4 13 win -5+15 = +10 profit
Hope I made myself clear 8)
Hi. What is your definition of a Sector? A Sector can contain anything. Ok, I will revise my statement. I think You have come up with a very Nice thing here mate. Its a variation on John Solitudes' Raindrop theory. Good Job mate!
Cheers
/Compa
Hello "Know when to quit".
You can use our forum's [disc][/disc] tags to illustrate your system.
Simply enclose numbers like this:
[disc]9,7,24,32,34,6,33,21,14,24,14,19[/disc]
It will give you this wheel image:
[disc]9,7,24,32,34,6,33,21,14,24,14,19[/disc]
In this case as per your explanation, we should play zone 27-5:
27-13-36-11-30-8-23-10-5
Right?
Victor
I'll try to give a working example, here it is, really a simple sys. that tries to combine a soulution where the ball lands in a physical world by random chance. This sys works better on non computer games. . . . . in my opinion.
I will use a straight line of numbers but keep in mind it is really a circle. A card that the casinos have available is much easier to work with.
0-28-9-26-30-11-7-20-32-17-5-22-34-15-3-24-36-13-1-00-27-10-25-29-12-8-19-31-18-6-21-33-16-4-23-35-14-2
lets use an example of actual spins from this board it does not matter 0 or 00 wheel. Its much longer a list of numbers than we will use. Lets start putting them in the above line above. I usually let it run for about 12 spins so the sectors are not any larger than 10 numbers, we will take the first 12 numbers and put in in the line above. It would look something like this. Dont worry about repeating numbers.
0-28-9-26-30-11-7-20-32-17-5-22-34-15-3-24-36-13-1-00-27-10-25-29-12-8-19-31-18-6-21-33-16-4-23-35-14-2
x x x x x x x x x
You can see we now have a sector or 3-1-4-1-4-7-4-1-3. We start with the largest sector and place bets there. 5 units on 00-27-10-25-29-12-8 The next number to hit on our list is 22 so we are down 35 units the next number to hit is 34 now we are down 70 units the next number to hit is 29 we are 110 units positive. Make sure you mark each number as it hits and keep playing the largest sectors untill you are down to sectors of 1 and 2 then play them all. If sectors have the same amount of numbers in them then you can play them both or all, but you will need a larger base or bank roll. Use a minimum progression. When you win take all numbers back down to 5 units.
Good luck
Sorry I saw your disc disc code after my post I will use it to explain my next sys. Yes victor you are right
4
2
1
22
22
15
33
26
19
11
4
5
22
34
29
31
24
18
9
17
35
8
20
5
29
32
16
11
6
13
1
34
16
31
16
32
22
QuoteSorry I saw your disc disc code after my post I will use it to explain my next sys.
Nothing to be sorry about mate,
It is quite refreshing to see actual roulette debate being featured.
I must thank you for that. :thumbsup:
[disc]16,13,6,6,32,21,33,23,33,15,20,8[/disc]
Ok. we see the big discrepancy here. from 0-20. which is 13 numbers.
on the 00 wheel it is 12 numbers.(which is what i was playing last week) the next numbers that came out were 15-24-29 (WE HIT ON the 0 wheel if I was playing that) 32-36-2 (WE HIT on the 00 wheel). So we went 3 spins on the 0 wheel and 6 spins on the 00 wheel. On the 00 wheel we would have continued with 0-28-9-26-30-11-7.the next numbers to hit were
33-3-2-33-32-36-1-0-35-20. So we would have hit on the 8th spin. correct? Keep adding a unit when we miss?
cd
[disc]16,13,6,6,32,21,33,23,33,15,20,8,15,24,29[/disc]
and we would have played on this wheel 7-28-12-35-3-26-0
those numbers again were32-36-2-33-3(we hit) and then we move to another sector. correct?
cd
I think I follow your example. Don't forget to mark your card or line or picture when the ball lands. I just played this again with good results. . . . . . but I did the mistake of not allowing myself enough time. I was up 100 units in 20 minutes then made a bad progression (got greedy) so I left with my original bank roll that I started with. Every win review the card to see what sector has the largest number of numbers in it and play that. Do not confuse using test numbers from a 00 rng with a single zero picture or line. I have a calculator watch so it is easy to make quick progression calculation. One of the worst things I have seen players do is not go into the game with their progression written down on a card that they can refer to quickly. Don't ever place a bet because it looks good. Have it written down ahead of time.
Good luck
Yes, it is much like Raindrop and little bit like Diodoro's. Thanks, know when to stop to drink - it is nice angle of the previous two.
CD you have 2 possibilities: a/ bet another sector if is large enough or mix 2 smaller sectors together b/ start to chart another 12 spins for a new advantage to stay always liquid.
I think the European Roulette brings better results. What about the new roulette without zeros? Less numbers to bet, smaller sectors.
Cheers Hermes
There can always be variations of this that I have not tried. Still waiting to see how this works out for members here in an actual play with a real wheel. Sounds good Hermes
Good Luck
Those spins were from a real wheel in the casino I played at last week.
cd
I think if it wipes out your starting cash then quit. . . . . . then try again in another session with new numbers. Compare all sessions to see if it is a working system. never think. . . . . one more try will win. . . that is more of a sign of addiction. One way to test a system is looking at the exponential curve of your last loss. I started to explain this in the first message of this topic and it can difficult to explain but it is definitely part of probability that can help you win. . . without a doubt and it applies to every game of chance not just roulette.
Let's take a row of numbers that is red and black
RR B RR BB R B RRR B RR BBBBB RRRRRRRRRRR BB R B RRR B RR B RR
Let's say these are actual number converted to red or black what can we learn from it. LOTS!
First we split this into a graph that looks like this (below). The numbers on the left are how many occurrences there are of the color the numbers on the right are how many occurrences there are in the list of numbers you are using as your data sample. We see that an anomaly has happened with a red 11 these anomalies can usually crash any system. Usually you will have twice as many 1s as you do 2s and twice as many 2s as you do 3s where systems usually work is when you have a steady growth of your graph and not weird anomalies. That is when your bank roll will grow large enough to handle getting hit with the next highest number on your graph. Jumps in 5 or 10 are murder on your sys. So what does this mean for roulette? Let's look at Red...even though you just had a weird thing happen with a hit of 11 reds ( I think 43 is the record). The single reds are way behind so it would be a safe bet to start betting on black after a red appears, but wouldn't you get hit hard if another anomaly hit you......yes but it will usually not hit until the 4s 5s 6s 7s 8 9s and 10 have gotten a hit. In the reds you also have a few to many 2s so be careful. This does not just apply to roulette. It applies with wins and losses in any situation. Its an exponential curve not a roulette curve. I noticed that it is interesting to do this curve with the black jack dealer. Mark off how many times she goes bust and make a graph of Xs and Os. When the dealer has way to many Os start stopping (only with a full table) with a high bets when your cards only reach 12. People will look at you like you are crazy but let the dealer play against the other people and let the dealer go bust. The exponential curve will always even itself out.
Red
1 - 2
2 - 5
3 - 2
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 - 1
Black
1 - 6
2 - 2
3
4
5 - 1
6
7
8
In average dealer busted 28 times in 100 hands. From that number you can look for anomalies. He should bust every 3,58 hand but it doesn't happens with electronic shuffling machines! He bust much less. I wait for 5 successful dealers hands before apply the Kamikaze Martingale progression.
Hermes
Looks interesting, have a couple questions though.
What is size bankroll is needed?
When you say add one unit for the progression. Is that 5,6,7....or 5,10,15?
Can't wait to try this :ok:
Thanks for posting
Phishalot
hello know when to quit, and thanks for this system.
i'm trying it, and have great success.
i've made some modifications. i just bet 1 chip/number, with progression, stop on the first win and start tracking again.
i've made something like +250 units in 7 sessions, hitting number in 5th spin max.
now just want to see in the long run ..
fqbien,
Yep that is about what I found. You have to get creative with your progression and constantly update your tracking card (not difficult to do). You just cant add a chip on your losses and expect to recoup everything. I won 163 dollars on a 25 cent wheel in about an hour and a half of play. I used 5 chips per number but kept close track of when it would hit 180 then upped the chips to make a profit each win, not just break even. I found I hardly ever hit 12 chips per number. Let me know how the long term does. . . .
phishalot,
Let me explain the exponential curve again. It is much much more than figuring how many times an event happens in a 100. Perhaps you understood. . . let me know if I need to explain more.
Good Luck
i've got some losses this afternoon, that's why i'm thinking about and other approach for this system.
why not track x spins unil you've got a sector of 10 to 13 numbers, then betting those numbers with progression ?
and on a hit, start tracking again.
cause sometimes, small sector like 6-7 numbers sleep for a long time. but maybe it's the same with larger sector ..
I think your right you need to always track spins and switch sectors because of where the ball lands. You may have a large sector of 12 and the ball lands in the middle. Now you have a sector of 6 and 5. The other sector less than 12 was 10 so then I start playing that one. I have had luck playing around 8 - 10 numbers which means combining the largest sectors. I am still testing this also. . . I will go again at 2:00 and test it on a live wheel with a starting BR of 400 units. I will post the numbers and let you know how I did. I do not think a Holy Grail exists where you can guess where the ball will land and be right above the random curve allows. I think its like trying to find a perpetual motion machine. . . . . . . . . which is the same conclusion that the inventor of roulette came to.
Good Luck
I will have to try on friday. The casino doesn't open the roulette table till 4:00 on the weekdays just on Friday and Sat.
I've thought for quite a while about saying this but I discovered an improvement to this that has really surprised me. I am traveling to the states and will be passing through Kansas City and am going to try it out at one of the casinos there. Or if anyone would be up to a challenge here on this board I would be glad to take part. Just let me know how. This is really proving interesting. I won 600 units today and 400 yesterday. Today I Played for an hour and a half at a computerized roulette wheel and only played an hour yesterday. Still haven't had chances to try this out on a real roulette wheel. I will (ok... You have my word) let you know what the system is after the challenge...., or after my trip to the states.
Good Luck
Know when to quit
As someone said in an earlier This sounds a little like the John Solitude raindrop method, which you may want to check out. there was a lot of discussion about this method on other boards a few years back (vip and possibly GG, it would be worthwhile to check the GG archives) the discussions got a little heated, but if the posts remain and you analyse them you might get something out of them and be able to try and iron out some creases. You will also have an idea of problems that you may face, for example gamblers fallacy and biased wheels.
Also why dont you download a free trial of Roulette xtreme to help you along with your testing. you can use it in conjunction with real spins from hamburg if you dont like the rng.
I hope this helps
Sure. I have been actively studying this for 14 years, a bit more wouldn't hurt. Systems that rely on a law or a sequence, without understandy why the law happens are bound to fail and a waste of time.
Like I said before, my revision is not to play sectors. I rely on the curve not just what sectors have or have not hit. The best way to explain it would be in a challenge.
Good Luck
Know When to Quit,
When are you coming through KC?
-Herb
Hello Herb,
From the 3rd to the 7th of July. Just played again for an hour and a half and won 600. That makes 1600 in 3 days....to bad its not dollars.
Very interesting system!
Lots of variations possible.
Ron.
Since I am "Learning" I have two questions, 1. What comprises a sector? 2. When you go up in units, (starting with 5 units) do you go up one unit of one, which would be six, or do you go up a unit of 5, which would be ten? I will learn the rest, but.....I need to learn the basics first. Thank you in advance for any and all help.
Hello and sorry for the long delay. I made several business trips to the States and plus many hospital visits with my son.
I have been continuing play this method but mixing it with a well understanding of sleepers and tracking sequences of how many times a number, or sector, or area hits and have been very successful. If anyone is interested I will explain further. I thought many years ago that you need to be secretive with your systems but then realized that is hog wash. The casinos make billions off of people, they are not going to concern themselves with someone who wins a few thousand here and there. So just ask and I will try my best to explain.
Good luck
Jon
Similar to Rain Drop strategy by John Solitude. He plays 12 sleepers progression in the biggest hole.
Hermes
Quote from: know when to quit on October 26, 2010, 05:05:34 PM
Hello and sorry for the long delay. I made several business trips to the States and plus many hospital visits with my son.
I have been continuing play this method but mixing it with a well understanding of sleepers and tracking sequences of how many times a number, or sector, or area hits and have been very successful. If anyone is interested I will explain further. I thought many years ago that you need to be secretive with your systems but then realized that is hog wash. The casinos make billions off of people, they are not going to concern themselves with someone who wins a few thousand here and there. So just ask and I will try my best to explain.
Good luck
Jon
Yes, I am interested and I'm sure many others too. You are right about being secretive: no point. A tiny minority of Roulette player study systems seriously, and of those, most don't make money consistently anyway. Besides, casinos benefit from the existence of professional players. It makes people dream.
Jeromin
Hi kntq, glad to see you back and sorry to hear about your son; I hope he is well. I am very interested in your system, the changes you've made with it, and how it has worked for you in the past year and a half. Thanks for your generosity in sharing it with us.
Sam
Hi Know When To Quit,
Very sorry to hear about your son and I also hope he is well. Glad you are back here though to update us on the changes you've made and how it has been working for you. :yahoo: I am very interested in your system and thank you for sharing it with us.
I've read your exponential curve explanation a few times and, while I've got the basic gist of it, I'm still having trouble understanding when and how to apply it practically. It seems like this may be the key to your new approach to the system, so if you don't mind it would be great if you could explain it a little more. Sorry if I'm being dense. Thanks much.
Sam
Hello Birdhands,
Thanks for the question. Ok, I will try to explain a bit further. Let's say you are playing red and black, odd or even or high or low numbers or simply clocking your wins and losses. I never bet on these but use it many times to confirm my next bet. I will use excel to generate some random numbers for this example. Please don't heckle me with hate mail....this is just an example. I have found that rng are different than actual numbers. 23-32-26-5-18-5-10-22-35-33-4-1-35-6-8-30-3-22-29-30-23-36-3-21-33-3-25-3-30-8-1-35-26-12-23-32-36-14-32-24
Forty numbers. Now let's use high and low (for simplicities sake). I usually play 4 methods at the same time when at the wheel. Lets exchange the lows with an x and highs with a 0.....it would look like this 000xxxx000xx0xx0x00000x00x0x0xx00x000x00 . The curve says you will have twice as many seq. of 1's as 2's and twice as many 2's as 3's etc. lets graph what is happening here.
Just x's
1's=6
2's=3
3's=0
4's=1
Just the O's
1's=4
2's=3
3's=3
4's=0
5's=1
The x's are following a good normal curve with 1's and 2's it jumped up to a 4 but many times that is normal. I have seen it jump up three positions but it usually returns to fill in the curve. From the looks of the 0's it is heavy on the 1's and 2's and as a result, you will see in the next few spins 1's and 2's fill in to even out the law. If you play with just this idea it is still difficult because you are dealing with 18 numbers and the wild card of the 0 and 00, but if you now plot the same numbers with odd and even and play them with the same method it gets interesting. Odd even looks like this 0=odd x= even.oxxoxoxxooxooxxxoxoxoxooooooxxooxxoxxxxx
Just 0's
1's=6
2's=3
3's=0
4's=0
5's=0
6's=1
Just x's
1's=5
2's=4
3's=1
4='s
5's=1
From this everything looks good except you should see a few more 1's with the x's and the 0's will fill in their 3's 4's and 5's after the 1's and 2's build up. If you are talking numbers it would translate to a few more even numbers hitting then in the next spin then immediately after the even hit an odd number would hit. If you combine it with the chart above with high and lows it would translate to. The low odd numbers will hit and then the low even numbers will hit. If you combine this with red and black it gets more interesting. If you plot how many times you win and lose you can also graph your wins with x's and o's with the same curve. I will explain this further in another post.
Good Luck
JJH
OK, so far it looks as if the idea is to sit at the wheel and graph out the distributions of hi/low, odd/even, red/black, for 30 -50 spins, and then begin to flat bet on single numbers which meet the criteria for what you've been led to expect from your graphs. So in your example (without red/black) it would be time to start betting on the low evens until you get a hit, then the low odds?
Do you use this with the sector system you spoke of earlier or have you abandoned that strategy?
Well it all looks interesting so far. I'll start playing with it. Thanks for the post, and I look forward to your next installment.
All the best,
Sam
Hello again,
Thanks for translating my last post. Unfortunately I am not up on the words like you are.
I explained a simplified version of what I mean by exp. curve to give a base for my next explainations of how I play the sectors, sleepers, active numbers (hot numbers), ploting the curve on paper, and checking 2-4 methods before quickly making my next bet on numbers and of course 0 00. Where I play which is almost daily is a small casino they have 2 types of wheels. One is like a video game with a live wheel in the middle and the other is a manned normal wheel. The curve applies to many things that sound really crazy but I have seen people use a crazy method with somewhat (usually break even or slighty little loss but because they play over time and do not track their winning they think they are winning) success, but what they are really doing is playing the curve....an example is: If you track the last 19 numbers hit on the bar or that are lit up some people will (there are some real crazy players) add or subtract the last couple of numbers and use the total for the next play. If you plot their wins and losses on a curve you end up with the same graph....called exponential curve. It will show an average of 7 - 11 losses between hits many single hits surrounded by losses some double hits surrounded by losses and fewer triple hits surrounded by losses etc...etc.
This directly applies to playing sectors. Hot numbers, sleepers etc. the permutations of this are probably endless. For example if you take the sectors most common that are on the playing board. 1-12 13-24 25-36 you will see that if you plot the curve just for 1 of those sectors you will have many hits on that sector and then the ball goes to another sector, you will have some hits of 2 hits in the same sector and fewer of them hitting 3 times ect...ect. I am sure there is a finite number of hits in a million spins in just one sector of 12 number and it usually follows the curve I am talking about. So how does this affect your play? Let's say you are playing sectors on the table like I just talked about. You see you have a chart of x= hits in that sector and 0=misses where the ball lands in another sector. It would look like this xx00000xx0000xx0000x I know the odds are the same as always to tell you that the next spin could be an x (hit in your sector) but the paradox says no way so I would look seriously at the other 25 or 26 places on the table, quickly compare it with other charts (in my mind) and play a few numbers. If it does to me the paradox tells me that the following will not be a 0 but you are probably looking at a triple hit (win) in your sector. The same as looking at the misses (losses) the next time a 0 comes up the curve/paradox tells me that you will not see 4 0's or 4 consecutive hits in other sectors. One thing I do and many will probably disagree with me on this is, I keep my notes on graph paper and continue from one game to the next even though from one game to the next may be a couple of days or more. I did this one time and noticed that a streak of 140 spins without the 0 00 hitting. I built up modest wages on them and within 5 spins, the next time I played it hit 25 units. I have to go but will write more latter.
Good luck
JJH
Hello, know when to quit .
I have removed the double posting.
Cheers, and please carry on with your topic. :)
Thanks,
I will post again on Monday. My wife and I had an anniversary and I had to think outside the wheel for a few days.....good luck to you all.
JJH
Just a quick question before I continue.
Is this making sense or is it just a waste of time and information that everyone already knows. I do not want to insult anyones intellegence.
I played again today and cleard 1200 units again in 3 hours. I survived numbers from hell. There were 14 out of 19 numbers that hit below 12. I was sure glad when that was over.
Good luck
JJH
This is definitely not information that I already know. It makes sense so far, although I feel I have a aways to go before I can translate it to a system of play at the casino. I am waiting with baited breath.
Thanks,
Sam
Thanks Birdhands,
I will talk more later about how to know when you should quit. I call it floods and droughts. It is based on the same principle graph as a 50 year flood 25 year flood 10 year flood or a 500 year flood. If you can chart an exponential curve then you can connect a time line to it for instance if each spin takes (where I am) 1 minute (on the mechanical wheel) then each event has a specific time to it. If a run (like I talked about before ) of 7 happens less frequently than a run of 1 or 2 and you have only sat at the table 10 minutes playing you can say then that a drought (losing number sequences) has just happend to you that would normally take 5 hours of normal playing time. If you have survived then you should wait for a flood of a winning number sequence that happens on a frequency of more thime than you have been at the table before you quit or walk around the casino.
I couldn't bielieve it, when I was playing, the pit boss was watching me play very carefully and came over ( I was the only one at the table) and changed balls to a larger size. I kept up with my winning streak dispite his dumb attempt...he should read this forum, or at least understand the game better. More later.
JJH
Hi Know when to quit. . . What progression are you using? I might have missed it in a previous post but I didn't see it. . . Thanks for sharing=) Sammy
Once again I am behind on posts. Thanks for your patience. That is difficult question because I do not always use a progression. Many times when I see that the curve is really being stretched by a sequence I place a high one time bet on some numbers, but always place bets on the inside and try to never gain below 50 units per hit. That means total up your chips on the table add them to your past losses then estimate your win if you get a hit subtract the two to always equal not less than 50. I played yesterday for about 30 minutes and the day before for about 2 hours. A couple of days ago the curve had a series of numbers that only happen every 100 hours of playing and I dropped down 700 units but I knew that it would even out. I came back with a run of wins that was very abnormal for someone looking at me play but it was very normal for the curve. The advantage of plotting the curve as you play is you have a better idea of what is happening or more practically said you have a better understanding of how rare is this event of wins or losses and you have a better idea of when to stop. Remember it is one thing to plot a curve of what numbers are being hit but it is something else to plot your wins. The problem is that you spend so much time writing that sometimes you miss a play, I have only been playing avidly for 15 years and sometimes miss bets because of plotting. If you are the only one on the table do not place your bets until you have them all counted out before you place them on the table. Many casinos do not start the spin until the min numbers of bets are placed on the table. So I dropped down 700 units but then gained it back, plus over 1000 units and then I sat at the table and watched I then saw that the curve was right for the numbers above 30 to hit and placed a onetime bet of 20 units on each number, 32 hit and I cashed in for the day with 1700 units. The next day I only played for 30 minutes, for this topics sake I wanted to see how it would go if I started with 100 units. I will write more with examples in the next post but the curve was running like clockwork and I cashed out after 30 minutes with 1370 units.
JJH
Know when to quit,
I am really enjoying your posts and when I have some free time I will practice plotting some numbers and post my conclusions for you. Thanks again and keep it comin'
Sam
Hello,
Small pause in writing, Sorry for the delay.
I will start out slow. Remember that this and the following examples are based on the exponential curve. Before the example let me show in simple terms why there is a curve. The wheel has no memory, no inherent ability in the physical or spiritual world it is just a piece of material that has the ability to move. Let's say you are looking at red and black, 4 spins.
BBBB
BBBR
BBRR
BBRB
BRBR
BRBB
BRRB
BRRR
RRRB
RRRR
RRBB
RRBR
RBBB
RBBR
RBRB
RBRR
The curve is taken from the factorial of 4 which is 4x3x2x1= 24 different possible combinations but we are after permutations so we remove the repeats and end up with 16 different permutations. Now lets chart/graph the runs of Black first. 4,3,2,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 as you can see you have
1's = 7
2's = 3
3's = 1
4's = 1
I will write more later.
Good Luck
JJH
I am getting 4,3,2,2,2,1,1,3,2,1,2,1,3,2,1,1,1
But that is carrying over: ex. BBRB BRBR I am counting as 2,2,1 Is this right?
If so, then the curve I'm getting is:
1's=7
2's=6
3's=3
4's=1
It also looks as if you only counted 8 of the 16 quartets. Your numbers come up to 20 total blacks, but there are 32.
Please correct me if I'm confused here.
Thanks,
Sam
Hey,
You are probably right...however I have plotted this out in the past and it was always half of the number above....I will look at this closer. There is a math formula to run the calculation but I did not have time to look it up. I wrote the last post in a hurry so sorry about the confusion. If you carry over one set to the next then you are really using 8 number which is 8x7x6x5x4x3x2x1 the runs that end in the color you are counting really need to be disqualified because you do not know how long they will continue...I think this is where the factorial of numbers breaks down in this example. Maybe someone can correct me or shed light on this. The point however is the validity that this curve exists and has to be taken into account when playing any system. Up till now it has not been talked about very much that I am aware of.
More Later
JJH
Hello again,
Finally did the test i had been waiting years to do. i always wondered what would happen if i played at a live table, starting out with 1 unit chips then when i built them up to trade them in to 5 unit chips the up frpm there. i have been working for years on perfecting this sys and finally felt confident enough to give it a try. i played for three hours building up and trading in, 25 unit chips were difficult to play with because of low house plein bets (50 unit max plein bet) so i dropped back down to 5 unit and used that. cleared 4500 units and cashed out. ok this is not just a bragging thread..... this sys is difficult to explain but ill keep trying if you want to send me some actual spins ill explain what to bet next and why. sorry for the silence i have been very busy workig at our new school.
Here you go (glad you're back):
Grand Victoria Casino 2005
7
36
31
6
17
9
10
36
27
0
1
19
5
35
8
32
19
17
5
9
33
27
4
2
33
18
26
16
13
30
00
20
5
14
00
0
27
3
15
36
8
16
33
8
7
7
12
5
4
36
4
28
16
35
7
31
32
3
2
24
1
26
31
19
00
9
15
6
25
9
20
33
31
16
28
33
36
26
17
26
14
32
24
36
26
7
9
87 spins
Sam
hey sam,
thanks, give me 3 numbers then numbers one at a time. it would be more realistic that way and no one could say i was riggin my play because i new the next spin. it will take longer, but be more in depth discussion. thanks
You bet. Here are the first three, from Argosy Casino in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, June 23, 2005:
31
23
3
Really glad to have you back. And thanks for thinking of us.
Sam
Quick reply thanks,
First is to set up your paper. Yes I always take paper with me to a table. I found math paper, the kind with blue squares on it works the best. On the left side going down I number it 1 to 36 and then 0 and 00. I usually start with 300 starting cash in but because this is a new wheel I will start with 500. Numbers will repeat usually every 8 to 11 spins so starting on this 4th spin I will place a single bet on the last 3 number plus 0 and 00 this is the safest way I found for me to start out, especially starting cold like this. So in the square next to 31 I will put a 1 in the square next to 23 I will put a 2, in the square next to 3, I will put a 3, etc....
bet then is
1-0
1-00
1-23
1-31
1-3
this is personal preference at this point and no strategy with sectors.
next spin: 25
ok, down 5.
one more time.
2 on 0
2 on 00
2 on 23
2 on 31
2 on 3
2 on 25
next spin:32
Ok.....down 17,
The sector of 4 through 22 is tooooo big to play so I will go,
0-3
00-3
10-3
11-3
12-3
13-3
14-3
15-3
16-3
17-3
18-3
19-3
the idea is
30s have hit twice
20s have hit twice
single digits once
teens 0
RBRRR
next spin: 3
Down 53,
The number repeated.....o well
I will play the teens again.
0-4
00-4
10-4
11-4
12-4
13-4
14-4
15-4
16-4
17-4
18-4
19-4
RBRRRR
23-31-3-25-32-3
REPEAT WAS 3 NUMBERS APART SIX NUMBERS DEEP START COUNT AGAIN FOR REPEAT NUMBER
next spin: 36
Down 101, :angry2:
bet
0-5
00-5
10-5
11-5
12-5
13-5
14-5
15-5
16-5
17-5
18-5
19-5
RBRRRRR
23-31-3-25-32-3-36
next spin: 1
Down 161,
0-9
00-9
10-9
11-9
12-9
13-9
14-9
15-9
16-9
17-9
18-9
19-9
15 is a number that has high odds to come up...long run of red....3rd collum has few hits and teens have not hit in a while....
Next spin: 23
rats, down 269
0-11
00-11
10-11
11-11
12-11
13-11
14-11
15-11
16-11
17-11
18-11
19-11
there is a real chance that the 20 are going to repeat, it is odd that you do not have a sector of 0-9 or teens or twentys or 30s that have not hit back to back.
Next spin: 11
correct me if I am wrong. I am trying to watch my 2 year old....I now have 495 units....down 5.
thinking the teens should hit again or 0 or 00 so I will go with a 2 time high bet on the teens starting with 5 units....have had a high number of repeats so I will not bet on numbers that have already hit.
bet
0-3
00-3
10-5
12-5
13-5
14-5
15-5
16-5
17-5
18-5
19-5
Next spin: 7
11 x 35= 385 - (11 x 11= 121)= 264
I don't know what you mean by 495, but I have you still down 5.
ok, down 61,
0-3
00-3
10-5
12-5
13-5
14-5
15-5
16-5
17-5
18-5
19-5
here is tough the sector is bound to repeat but the teens are way behind. I will go with the teens sector
Next spin: 17
ok, that should be plus 63....I think
still no sector repeat so I will go one time again.
0-3
00-3
10-5
12-5
13-5
14-5
15-5
16-5
17-5
18-5
19-5
next spin 15
finally, so that should be plus 187
I have to get the jammies on the little tyke be right back
are you using the term sector to refer to more than just physical sections of the wheel?
yes, you can have a sector mean anycombination on the wheel. I am using the chronological order of numbers from one to 38 but you could arrange the numbers to represent the actual placement of the wheel. I have to get the kids to bed now but will be back on here in 1 hour I will try to show by excell the layout so far to give you a better understanding of what I am talking about I will show a picture instead of using an actual file...easier to read.
I do not usually like to start betting untill I have a better sample..say 20 numbers. It is hard to read just a few numbers. The wierd things will always happen to a wheel. I once saw 5 numbers in a row hit. and a few days before I saw three sets of repeats hit back to back.
good luck till then
Unfortunately I have a 1 year old who will be waking me up in 7 hours, so off to bed for me. It's been really interesting playing the part of the roulette wheel. If you want to pick up where we left off just let me know; I would love to see what happens with a larger sample. You are a true artist. I'm not sure if what you do is even learnable; I certainly wouldn't call it a system. Thanks for your time.
Sam
Hey Birdhands,
Unfortunately you may be right about calling this not a system. Many people have asked me while I am playing how I win....I have tried to explain it but they usually just look at me like I have 3 eyes. This is learnable though. I have played for 15 plus years and just now feel confident that I have a handle on it. Sure lets pick this back up another time.....I can relate to getting just a few hours of sleep because of your little ones, hang in there.
good luck
hi know when to quite,
I have a system similar to yours i think, and i bet on the inside numbers and using + or - to mark what the pattern is doing, but the numbers i cover range from 9 to 18 (never anymore then 18, otherwise i cant use a progression.
I havent played my system for long but it did well when i did and would most of the time make over 100% on the bankroll. anyway it not so straight cut, but i like the idea of waiting for sectors in terms of 0-9, 10-19,20-29, 30-36.
so that gives you 4 sectors to play, I hadnt thought of playing like this.
so you are only ever covering 10 numbers a time, so say if the 20's havent hit awhile (kind of like a sleeper) then you start the bet on those numbers ? is this correct
I dout the sleepers would get very long like this, whats the longest sleeper you have seen ?
I dont play with big bets at the moment but i can see they would be better. I'll proberly make a excell going down to see what repeats and what hits.
if you look at the wheel, is it possible to make the 4 sectors of the wheel (which will be 9-10 numbers), in this way you are betting on the wheel.
this would only suit live wheels, or even make this a second system to watch the wheel.
do you understand what i mean know when to quite, you know the old saying, never bet against the wheel.
you run both systems at the same time and it may even help target certain numbers.
I just got started only 13 numbers have been spun. There is so much more to this method of play that I did not have time to explain. It is not just playing sleepers but the idea of why you play sleepers works for why you play hot numbers and when. Perhaps in another session I could explain.
23-31-3-25-32-3-36-1-23-11-7-17-15
I've got the rest of the numbers any time you want to continue.
Sam
KWTQ,
Maybe this is oversimplified, but it seems like the gist of what you are doing is thoroughly tracking sleepers. So if we track 20 spins and get this:
15 blacks, 5 reds
13 high, 7 low
16 even, 4 odd
4 1st dz, 9 2nd dz, 7 3rd dz
6 1st column, 6 2nd clm, 8 3rd clm
then we look for a red, low, odd, 1st dz, 1st or 2nd column: bet on 1, 7, and 5
is this the basic idea?
Sam
Just got back in the house....date night, it doesn't happen often with a 2 year old and a 3 1/2 year old.
Yes I track the sleepers (sectors) and, the hot numbers, but the difference is how you track them. Refer to I think somewhere around page 5 of this thread. I also track for instance if the spins have gone a long session with out hitting on a number that has a repeat number beside it ( remember the paper I referred to at the start of the game) I start betting on them. Today was a record day for the bad.....I started tracking normally, and noticed that 12 numbers had spun without a repeat such as the law of the 3rd would suggest. It went all the way up to 21 numbers without repeating and almost wiped out my starting cash. I recovered plus 1500 units because after the streak was broken the wheel hit 7 repeats in a row. After a long streak of losses I wanted to recover my losses. I had tracked what was normal losses and wins for me and knew that I was due for a streak of wins. So I cash in for 5 unit chips and placed high bets on the numbers that had already shown and had a long streak of wins. Usually people will back out and go home defeated after a heavy loss but I have found that if you stick it out and track your wins an losses it will come around, if you play wisely you can recoup your losses plus. Tracking how far apart the repeats were allowed me to not build up a huge table bet, or better said once a number repeated I didn't bet on that number the following spin. One thing I have found helpful is the art or letting a spin go by without betting when sectors with the same number of no hits are up. For instance. I had a sector on my card that showed a section of 5 numbers which represented sleepers I think it was 7-11 and another section of sleepers 27-31. I didn't want to bet on ten numbers plus the 0's so I waited 3 spins. When the number hit in the first sector I started playing the second sector and it hit the next spin. Many times I will see what columns have hit and if the center has not hit in a while I and neither has that sector I will place a surround bet on that number. That happened twice in one game about a year ago and the number five showed with five units on plein and five all around. I asked if I could take a picture but they wouldn't allow it. I know this sounds complicated but I found the only way to win is to apply as many different ways at the same time of the same system I use.
Hi Know When to Quit,
I have read this thread and find it very interesting :) Keep up the good work.
From what I read of your lastest post, are you trying to say that we need to apply different systems/methods and change accordingly when the opportunity arises?
ie. We need to see when to play sleepers or repeats and react accordingly?
Also. . can I ask what is "plein" ?
Hello,
without a doubt your right. I look at playing roulette as a dance not a system.
Plein is a bet on a single number or 0 00.
have a great dance.
This method to me has been problematic untill recently. With some accuracy you can tell if numbers will fall on sleepers or hot numbers but what about numbers in between. If you chart the the way I mentioned before it becomes vaguely accurate to see hot and cold numbers or should I say numbers at the front and bottom of the list but as you know roulette is not just hot and cold. You have many numbers that have been hit one two or three times less than the hottest numbers, depending on how long each session is for you. Something occured to me on how to plot them so I tried it. The results were scary. Three days ago I went to the local casino and made 5005 units in 2 1/2 hours of play not using a progression, the next day I played for 2 hours and made 6375 units. Today I want for 45 minutes and made 3000 plus units.... I forget the exact amount over 3000. The problem became evident of the commotion it caused. I could of played longer but I was getting scared they would kick me out. I will go back next week and see what happensThe problem with this method of play for me has always been to accurately forcast. I know that you can not judge any system/method by a few hours of spins but I was shocked at the accuracy. I look forward explaining how to play this when I have tested it a few more times. I am not trying to brag just fill you in on what is happening with this system....or what ever you call it. I started with a bank roll of 200 and built it up using 25 and 30 unit no progression bets to over 3000, 5000 and 6000.
Sounds interesting, looking forward to your method :)!!
Looking forward to your modified approach.
Thanks,
John
Hello again,
I will be going to the states soon and pass by several areas where there are many casinos, if interested in seeing this method played personal message me and I hope we can connect in your area. I will let you know how this turns out tomarrow as well. Who knows someday I may even make it to vegas.
know when to quit,
Today, I sent you two (2) private messages please respond.
Thanks,
John
Well I went to casino at about 12:30 and left at 1:30 the first time. I knew that I had a lot riding on this visit so I started with a high bank roll of 1100 units. I want to play high and fast so that if I did win I wouldn't draw attention. I recognized all the people sitting around the golden casino wheel. You place bets like a video game but the wheel is a live mechanical wheel. I was able to see them set it up several years ago so I knew that it was operated purely by mechanics and computer software. I was always leery before that they could control the fall of the ball by fancy software or by tubes blowing puffs of air on the right slot at just the right time so I inspected it at a distance when they were installing it. Ok, how did the game go. I started out charting what numbers that were suppose to fall the next time a series of non sleeper numbers would show and placed split bets, corner bets and one plein on the number. It took a while but it did hit on my number. I did that with 17-25-0 and 1 which hit, I played sleepers and hot numbers with straight bets of 25 and 30 units but not playing them all the time because that would be against the sys and would surely lose, I played them according to the exponential curve. I cashed out the first time with 5005 units. When they gave me my money the said they would have to charge me 13% taxes, Ok, this is something that they do and get away with all the time where I currently live, but this time it ticked me off. So I told them ok, then I will go back and play and recover the money for "taxes". I went back and put in 300 units and after 30 min of work.....not play, cashed out at another 2000 units.
Thanks for the e-mails, and I understand all who have written me that want to understand this way/sys of play. I will try to explain this further but it is going to take a lot of practice on your part on the computer first. Do not try any new system on a live wheel (my opinion), unless you have cash to blow. You will usually walk away defeated. Please do not private mail me on how to play this.....I will answer all messages on how to play this way open on the board, free.
A couple of observations about this. I always thought that if anyone did discover a winning system then all they would have to do is practically live at a casino and rake it in. This could not be further from the truth. People have their own personal life that they have to live, and the social life at work can never be replaced by sitting all day at a wheel. This is probably why the casinos are very smug and safe in making their money. It is just not practical for 99% of the average people to make a living at a casino even if they had a great system, mentally they are not up to it. I think it will always be a recreation that like all can eat your lunch or you can eat theirs with smart play.
To be more concice I will be in the saint Louis Chicago area next time I am in the states and look forward playing/working there.
Have fun
O, I asked the casino to give me vouchers of my winnings if you would like I can show these.
Quote from: know when to quit on February 15, 2011, 12:22:30 PM
Well I went to casino at about 12:30 and left at 1:30 the first time. I knew that I had a lot riding on this visit so I started with a high bank roll of 1100 units. I want to play high and fast so that if I did win I wouldn't draw attention. I recognized all the people sitting around the golden casino wheel. You place bets like a video game but the wheel is a live mechanical wheel. I was able to see them set it up several years ago so I knew that it was operated purely by mechanics and computer software. I was always leery before that they could control the fall of the ball by fancy software or by tubes blowing puffs of air on the right slot at just the right time so I inspected it at a distance when they were installing it. Ok, how did the game go. I started out charting what numbers that were suppose to fall the next time a series of non sleeper numbers would show and placed split bets, corner bets and one plein on the number. It took a while but it did hit on my number. I did that with 17-25-0 and 1 which hit, I played sleepers and hot numbers with straight bets of 25 and 30 units but not playing them all the time because that would be against the sys and would surely lose, I played them according to the exponential curve. I cashed out the first time with 5005 units. When they gave me my money the said they would have to charge me 13% taxes, Ok, this is something that they do and get away with all the time where I currently live, but this time it ticked me off. So I told them ok, then I will go back and play and recover the money for "taxes". I went back and put in 300 units and after 30 min of work.....not play, cashed out at another 2000 units.
Thanks for the e-mails, and I understand all who have written me that want to understand this way/sys of play. I will try to explain this further but it is going to take a lot of practice on your part on the computer first. Do not try any new system on a live wheel (my opinion), unless you have cash to blow. You will usually walk away defeated. Please do not private mail me on how to play this.....I will answer all messages on how to play this way open on the board, free.
A couple of observations about this. I always thought that if anyone did discover a winning system then all they would have to do is practically live at a casino and rake it in. This could not be further from the truth. People have their own personal life that they have to live, and the social life at work can never be replaced by sitting all day at a wheel. This is probably why the casinos are very smug and safe in making their money. It is just not practical for 99% of the average people to make a living at a casino even if they had a great system, mentally they are not up to it. I think it will always be a recreation that like all can eat your lunch or you can eat theirs with smart play.
To be more concice I will be in the saint Louis Chicago area next time I am in the states and look forward playing/working there.
Have fun
O, I asked the casino to give me vouchers of my winnings if you would like I can show these.
I live in St. Louis and would gladly meet you at any casino you name.
I am on vacation:
Feb 18 - 22, Park City, UT
Feb 26 - Mar 13, Maui
If your schedule places you in St. Louis when I'm home please PM and I'll be there.
Great performance, congratulation on your winnings.
We are looking forward to your post on how to play your latest modified system/approach.
Thanks,
John
I applied to this thread a couple of weeks ago and you never got back to me know when to quite, so i never botherd to understand this system, i still dont really, something about waiting for 12 spins and betting on the largest sector hitting the most, is this right ?
i did read your thread and it gave me an idea for my system, i think its the same but its based on sectors not individual numbers, i think you have manage to go up further on the scale.
im very intersted in how you play it but dont quite understand it, i know you said you will explain it but i think i get the jiff of it.
do you see bias wheels playing this way
first off sorry about missing your post I have been very busy. As to your question about detecting a rigged wheel......probably so. this sys/method is still new a I have to really be on my toes to play it. it is very difficult to do the curves and have time to place bets. today I went for 30 min. used 10 min. to plot previous numbers and made 2000 units with flat bets, and left before many people showed......this is very difficult to explain but am working on a simple version. tell me when you want to pass some real numbers at me like before with Sam, and I will explain it step by step. lets plan on a session of one to two hours so I can explain what I am doing and why. please throughly read my last posts especially about sectors first. i need to say that i had to decide before going to make an extra effort to place and tack fast.....but it payed off.
thats ok mate, i did read your last post.
would your system work on live wheels over the internet ?
Quote from: know when to quit on February 17, 2011, 08:50:11 PM
first off sorry about missing your post I have been very busy. As to your question about detecting a rigged wheel......probably so. this sys/method is still new a I have to really be on my toes to play it. it is very difficult to do the curves and have time to place bets. today I went for 30 min. used 10 min. to plot previous numbers and made 2000 units with flat bets, and left before many people showed......this is very difficult to explain but am working on a simple version. tell me when you want to pass some real numbers at me like before with Sam, and I will explain it step by step. lets plan on a session of one to two hours so I can explain what I am doing and why. please throughly read my last posts especially about sectors first. I need to say that I had to decide before going to make an extra effort to place and tack fast.....but it payed off.
Know when to quit,
I would love to feed you numbers again like last time. Anytime. This time we should probably start you off with 10 or 20 numbers like you would do at a casino. I think there are a lot of us here who are eager to learn from you. If we were to schedule a session there would probably be a big turnout. I've got lots of actuals to draw from. Please let me know whenever you have the time and energy to let us watch you at work.
Sam
hey Sam,
sounds like a great challenge for me. this should be the proof of any method played, on the other hand just becase any player can beat a few games doesnt mean his sys wont collapse......only time will be the real judge.
ok, where are you located.... i am in central america time zone.
Know when to quit,
Below are live numbers extracted from a Casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey. It's a double zero roulette.
I'll not mention the Casino name because as you probably know all the casinos have members/employees on this board using "PHONY names".
here are the live spins:
32
19
19
14
17
10
31
1
26
18
18
36
30
00
13
9
17
9
3
35
5
14
34
34
5
14
10
15
4
36
25
29
33
7
1
6
12
15
31
13
25
21
4
24
10
27
23
32
4
26
6
35
3
26
20
9
21
10
7
2
10
12
36
6
4
12
2
8
14
36
3
7
29
---> I ended my session and left the table.
I have in my possession more number using other Casinos in Atlantic City New Jersey. Let me know if you need more.
Please run the above numbers which can be a good measurement to your system/approach.
"HAVE A NICE WEEKEND"
John
Jr,
This isn't how he does it. We need to feed hi the numbers one by one. If you look back over the thread you'll see how we did it before.
@KWTQ,
I'm in North Carolina, Eastern Standard Time. It's 11:51 right now as I post this.
Sam
Hi John
Im folowing this thread well indeed,wish the guy could contribute more frequently,but he did say he is a busy guy i guess :) I just try a 4 sector play on this,but 4 sector by dividing table not wheel.For american wheel you can make great use of table with limited bets to play wheel,because the way the numbers ,Table to wheel are related.I end up with +51 units
Only a bankroll of 36 units was needed,lucky i guess.With 6 step progression,then reset.Lost only one time,had to reset but still make it back.How well did you do on that session from those numbers.
Seykid.
Hello again,
not trying to be elsive but i have very little time for computer . Sam i will be on here at 10:00 tonight to start this play hope you can make it .....right now it is 9:00. if sam cant make it i could jump over to chat if you like.
jjh
Ok KWTQ, I think you are 1 hour behind me. The post times are confusing; they make it look like we are in the same time zone. I'll check here at 10:00 my time, but I think that your 10 is my 11, in which case it's a little late for me. I'll see what I can do.
Sam
do not see sam on here, sorry i connected late i will try at 11:00 hope he will be on then.
Sorry it's just too late for me. I hope this isn't our only chance.
Sam
Hey Sam,
Rats....no this isnt the only chance. Let's try again tomarrow at 9 that would be 10 your time.....
Quote from: know when to quit on February 20, 2011, 01:54:18 AM
Hey Sam,
Rats....no this isnt the only chance. Let's try again tomarrow at 9 that would be 10 your time.....
Hey, both of you seems to be online now :) Why not do it now? quite anxious to see how this system works :)!!
be in chat (testing) for the next hour if any one wants to learn.
Quote from: know when to quit on February 20, 2011, 05:03:57 AM
be in chat (testing) for the next hour if any one wants to learn.
Oops, missed it, anyone managed to "record" it?
Is it possible to record the hourly session, so the ones that couldn't participate will have the chance to review the session?
Thanks,
John
Slightly disappointment from "LEARN HOW TO QUIT". You wrote, "be in chat (testing) for the next hour if any one wants to learn".
With all the respect and I know you're busy and have to take care of his kids.
I'm not sure how can we (I) learn your method if we don't have yet your promised write up document about your system/approach?
Not trying to "PUSH" but I'm as well as others on this board are looking forward to your posted document.
Some of us are experienced Roulette players and most likely be able to grasp on your method. Above and beyond we are here to help each other to progress on our gambling and "attempt to win the Casinos".
Thank you in advance , GOD BLESS,
John
i understand john.
like I said in chat last night. this is not magic and it will take weeks of playing before you get a handle on this....it is fluid but it follows laws like the third and the curve. I connected in chat for a little over an hour at 3 in the morn because I felt bad that I didnt connect with Sam and some were still waiting around to chat. hope to connect tonight. it is difficult because no one knows about this....or should I say that I am doing this and I am trying to keep this under wraps.
I take full responsibility for last night not working out. I will be available tonight at 9 your time, 10 my time. Probably only for an hour. The late hours are difficult for me with the little one and being underslept in general. I'm really looking forward to doing this. Thanks, KWTQ.
Sam
Sam when you said 9:00 PM is it in the Eastern zone, Central, or pacific time?
Thanks,
John
know when to quit,
Thank you for your honest response.
Can you describe the CURVE applied to your system?
In terms of laws like the third, I'm familiar with it. In fact it triggered articles about "SLEEPERS" which is mainly targeted towards ONLINE Roulette and particular system that are using RNG & other Randomizes.
I'm not raveling any secrets but if you're playing live roulette. Some players/gamblers are capable to analyze dealer spins based on so called "Dealer Signature".
What I noticed in the LIVE Land Casinos that each dealer "PRODUCES" different results in terms of which dozen the ball landed. Although, all of them are trained in similar schools, top students and/or the best employees in the Casino are being further trained to get the ball more or less into "'ZERO" area. Or, In times when the table is not extremely busy, they will look at the players layout of the chip son the table, and roll the ball either light, meaning about 2 to 3 spins or stronger for about several spins.Or they will change the ball from large to a medium size. How do I know that?
I happened to chat with two different Roulette dealer on their break. They were basically smoking outside the Casino Doors. I got friendly with them and the conversation lead to the above.
Regards,
John
Quote from: jrhelp007 on February 20, 2011, 05:24:07 PM
Sam when you said 9:00 PM is it in the Eastern zone, Central, or pacific time?
I am in Eastern Time (North Carolina), KWTQ is in Central American time. We're going for 10 my time, 9 his time tonight.
hey sam when you want give me 14 numbers fom an actual wheel so i can prep the page. im on my cell but hope to switch to the compu at 9:00
Here you go (00 wheel):
15
12
27
4
21
3
34
22
21
23
3
34
6
18
To be able to communicating fast and getting notes is to use the chat on this board. If you have a mic its better, it provide voice too. But you can't record you will need to use a Computer software for that.
The thread is different. It will generate many posts. But it will be recorded with the posted messages.
But it is up to you.
I'm in the chat room already.
Thanks,
John
sorry be patient just a few more minutes Ill be here
Thanks see in the chat room.
Thanks , John
cant make it to the computer, but as soon as i can i will be there.
ok
Hi birdhands,
We are in the chat room now :) come!
Quote from: know when to quit on February 21, 2011, 12:36:13 AM
cant make it to the computer, but as soon as I can I will be there.
Hi, we are in the chat room, come come!
KWTQ,
It's almost 11:30. I have to go to bed. Such a bummer. I have time tomorrow. Let's make this happen.
Sam
I have all day tomarrow....
I am on now if you like....sorry it was problems with the family.
Ok Guys,
This is the clean up version of what happen at the Chat Room today... Thanks KWTQ for sharing your system :)
Thanks Mate was waiting for it.
know when to quit,
Thank you for your time and effort performed yesterday in the chat room.
All participants witness in the chat room your willingness to share your method and again we thank you for that.
Three strong major points have been established. If followed we could off "WALK AWAY" from the table winning big.
The three points associated with the double zero roulette:
1. If a sector(s), or sleepers, or hot and repeat numbers require betting on the double zero number, we must
include the single zero bet as well by either placing a direct bets on each number (0 & 00)
or split the bets.
2. The most critical one, apply discipline to the method. We violated the system/approach and "paid the price".
3. If anyone is tired, do not gamble!!! We all were tiered and made major errors causing some bets to lower our
Bankroll session. If the system was properly followed we could off "WALK AWAY" with thousands of units.
:dance1:
John
The original idea from first page is a weak copy of Raindrop by John Solitude but it could work. What is the reason to start with 5 units I don't understand? Just to need more bankroll?
Hermes
i agree, easy to make excuses thoug. i didnt play by my own rules many times. i went to the casino today tor an hour and won 4500 units. but i played very different than last night.
Please allow me to add.
You can apply your Money Management approach.
know when to quit, the founder of this system, started to progress with his system and big profits came alone. He started with a low bankroll that generated hundreds of units. He didn't want the Casino to focus on his game and eventually be flagged and escorted out.
In fact lately, know when to quit, started playing with a bigger bankroll with an objective to prevent the Casino from paying attention to his game.
So now, know when to quit, purchase over a thousand units, acting as and an "HEAVY ROLLER" with expectation to win big. This way he doesn't draw attention. Neither by the other players on the table(s) and/or Casino management.
John
Hi know when to quit
apprciate your efforts.
for those unlucky including me who were not in the chatroom,would like to know the set of rules you have nailed down to play: exactly the way you play, bet size and bankroll requirement.
best regards
catalyst
Know when to quit, do we have a chat session tonight?
John
Have you start playing this way yet??
much easier for me to connect during the morn. i will be in chat tuesday morn at 10:00 if you are interested.
know when to quit, your original post was on 11 June 2009. It is now 2011. Maybe it's time to start a new thread in Full Roulette Systems and write out in detail how the system is in its current state? eg exact rules to follow
Have the rules/methodology changed quite a lot? Would the strategies be different for high roller/small roller? Is it only suitable for real/live play or have you tested it on RNG?
I will try to pop in to chat sometime and will do manual testing myself in my own time.
Finally have a little computer time.
Yes the rules have changed quite a bit but it is still the same idea. I use the curve to mandate my next move. What has changed is I am able to use the curve to plot numbers that are not hot or cold.. Example: Lets say your hot number is hot because it has hit 7 times in 60 spins. I am now able to plot the numbers that have only one hit and make accurate predictions which one of those numbers to place bets on. Something I have yet to explain but this alone I feel is what has really given me the edge that turned the system from a fair sys to one that will has let me win 5000+ units a day (I have not had a losing session since starting this almost 3 weeks ago, I have played everyday) in Casinos. Yesterday, like I mentioned I cashed out at plus 5000+ units. I waited around seeing what numbers would hit. Everyone amazed that I had accumulated so much in such a short time. I told them the next 3 numbers to bet on and 2 of them hit. Seven of my numbers that I would of continued playing hit in the next 12 spins. I could of cashed out with thousands more but for sake of not wanting to make enemies with the owners was glad I cashed out when I did, but, it was because of being able to plot numbers other than hot or cold....something I did not get to explain yet.
If I did start a new thread I have not the slightes idea what to call this system of play.
be in chat for an hour (its 10:25) if anyone would like to drop in.
KWTQ,
If you don't mind I think I'll lay out my understanding of what you do so far. That way we can use your time more effectively without needless questions. I was multitasking when you explained the 1-6 list and I forgot it. I think it was like this: you have 5, 12, 32, 19, 2, 30, 5. On the 1-6 list we put a 7 next to the 1 to indicate that the first number repeated on the seventh spin. Is this correct? It's a way to track repeats on the oldest numbers?
Sam
Its a good idea to post a recap on how it actualy works so far.
There are too many posts and I am kinda lost.
Anyone please?
Best regards,
Bob
yep.....and thanks....you seem to be on the right track to understand this.
know when to quit, can you post your guide to your system step by step?
John
Hey everybody, I haven't forgotten that I said I would post my (limited) understanding of the method. We are moving right now and things are chaotic. I'll post it all soon.
Sam
hi birdhands
we appreciate your efforts to post your understanding. also could you please post a session as you did it with actual numbers feeding know when to quit.
some of us unable to attend the chatroom. is there anyone who can provide us with some valuable details.
thanks
catalyst
Ok. here's what I know. Again, this is my limited and possibly mistaken understanding of what KWTQ is up to.
First track, say, 15 numbers and divide them into 3 groups: Hot, Cold (Sleepers), and Warm.
Hot numbers are those which have hit the most times.
Cold numbers are those which have not hit yet.
Warm numbers are those which have hit once and haven't hit again yet.
Now make a vertical line of numbers down the left side of the page, from 1 to 36.
So here are our numbers: 21,12,3,17,4,6,22,17,21,3,29,0,9,14,11
1
2
3 H H
4 H
5
6 H
7
8
9 H
10
11 H
12 H
13
14 H
15
16
17 H H
18
19
20
21 H H
22 H
23
24
25
26
27
28
29 H
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
0 H
00
Now a second list from 1 to 6. This is a record of the first 6 tracked numbers, which have repeated and how many times.
1. 9
2.
3. 10
4. 8
5.
6.
This means the first number repeated on the 9th spin, the third on the tenth, and the fourth on the eighth.
So here's where it gets fuzzy. We need to watch what's hitting. There were 3 numbers that repeated and then 5 were cold numbers. Now we have to decide whether to bet hot numbers (3, 17, and 21), or cold ones (probably 23-28 or 30-36), or maybe the oldest warm ones (12, 4 and 6). I don't know what KWTQ would do here, let's say he would bet the warm and hot ones since we just had 5 cold. So we bet 3,17,21,12,4,and 6.
Next spin: 25
Maybe we should have bet the cold sectors? Same bet again.
Next spin: 3 hit on a hot number
Now we have in the last 10 spins: WWW,CCCCCC,H or 3,6,1 Somehow we are supposed to read this and know what to do next. There is still a big unhit sector from 30-36, and still the warm old numbers 12,4,6. I'm going to bet 30-36.
Next spin: 31 hit on that sector
To be honest this is just about all I understand so far. I think KWTQ has certain ratios he expects to see and so on. We now have WWW,CCCCCC,H,C and he uses this somehow. He'll have to correct me and fill in the rest.
I hope this was useful.
Sam
PS copver the zeros on every bet
Quote from: catalyst on February 24, 2011, 12:30:39 AM
hi birdhands
we appreciate your efforts to post your understanding. also could you please post a session as you did it with actual numbers feeding know when to quit.
some of us unable to attend the chatroom. is there anyone who can provide us with some valuable details.
thanks
catalyst
both those sessions are already on this thread.
Sam
hi Birdhands
your efforts are much appreciated.it is beginning to clear the cloudy sky. we would like to expect 'know when to quit' to drop few lines in your example and to show us the way to forward with his generosity. with my limited understanding, KWTQ figure out sectors, numbers etc. from this exponential curve (not only hot types, also cold ones to plot the winning bet-which is the key to his success.)
also, peoples who were in the chatroom might come out to give us some valuable details with their generosity too.
thanks
catalyst
where is everybody? nobody come out with any type of understanding?
Im also waiting new posts..where is KWTQ?
i am keeping my hand crossed that KWTQ will drop his presence in the midst of cloudy sky.
What happen to this system??
KWTQ, hope your are doing fine. please update us with your system.
Well it looks like KWTQ may be on another long hiatus. In the meantime maybe we can work with what we've got. If you look back at my earlier explanatory post, there is the part about the exponential curve which describes the previous spins. It's the part where you see WWW,CCCCCC,H or 3,6,1. KWTQ was telling me that this is a very important piece of information. Now I don't know what is a "normal" curve, although he did suggest that the "normal" curve is session-specific and something we must learn to recognize in order to capitalize on opportunities when they arise. Any thoughts?
Sam
Quote from: birdhands link=topic=10230. msg129881#msg129881 date=1298837696
Well it looks like KWTQ may be on another long hiatus. In the meantime maybe we can work with what we've got. If you look back at my earlier explanatory post, there is the part about the exponential curve which describes the previous spins. It's the part where you see WWW,CCCCCC,H or 3,6,1. KWTQ was telling me that this is a very important piece of information. Now I don't know what is a "normal" curve, although he did suggest that the "normal" curve is session-specific and something we must learn to recognize in order to capitalize on opportunities when they arise. Any thoughts?
Sam
Are we looking the first 10 spin? WWW CCCCCC H 3 6 1
Not necessarily. I feel more comfortable watching 20 before I make a bet, although it can also depend on what we've got so far. If we only have 15 spins and no repeats yet, than maybe it's time to make a bet on the first 6. I think that KWTQ likes to bet 6 numbers or fewer (+ 0 and 00, so 8 numbers), and if it's time to bet a warm number, then the first 6 are a good option. He begins with a 60 -100 unit bankroll. So betting 1 unit on 8 numbers we are in profit if we hit on the first 4 bets, then we can up to 2 units for bets 5 and 6, then 3 units on bet 7. At that point if we haven't hit anything we're busted.
Sam
Quote from: know when to quit on February 22, 2011, 12:47:10 PM
Finally have a little computer time.
Yes the rules have changed quite a bit but it is still the same idea. I use the curve to mandate my next move. What has changed is I am able to use the curve to plot numbers that are not hot or cold.. Example: Lets say your hot number is hot because it has hit 7 times in 60 spins. I am now able to plot the numbers that have only one hit and make accurate predictions which one of those numbers to place bets on. Something I have yet to explain but this alone I feel is what has really given me the edge that turned the system from a fair sys to one that will has let me win 5000+ units a day (I have not had a losing session since starting this almost 3 weeks ago, I have played everyday) in Casinos. Yesterday, like I mentioned I cashed out at plus 5000+ units. I waited around seeing what numbers would hit. Everyone amazed that I had accumulated so much in such a short time. I told them the next 3 numbers to bet on and 2 of them hit. Seven of my numbers that I would of continued playing hit in the next 12 spins. I could of cashed out with thousands more but for sake of not wanting to make enemies with the owners was glad I cashed out when I did, but, it was because of being able to plot numbers other than hot or cold....something I did not get to explain yet.
I think he is referring to the 1-6 chart here.
Quote from: birdhands link=topic=10230. msg129925#msg129925 date=1298863713
I think he is referring to the 1-6 chart here.
Would you like to practice play here? I'll give you the number and let's figure out or plot the next move.
sounds good, but we need 15 numbers to start with.
Quote from: birdhands link=topic=10230. msg129968#msg129968 date=1298897502
sounds good, but we need 15 numbers to start with.
Ok, I got these number from Roulette Xtreme2. 0, I love this program. I'll give you the first 10 numbers.
17
26
25
30
8
31
24
32
31
33
I will be in and out of the computer but let's try to finish this and discuss. Let me know what will I do next.
I attached our working sheet. Please modify, re save and attach.
On the sheet, can we start betting on the 9 open spaces? I also made a series of numbers from 1 to 36, Lets work on 2 chart and see which is better.
I may not have time until tonight. I just had a quick look, though. I don't think we need to bother with the wheel layout, and so far we only have 1 repeat in ten numbers. The sectors are a little too big to bet right now. I would either track a few more spins or bet the first 5 numbers (31 already repeated). I would rather do this with real spins that happened in real time, although I know that verges on superstitious. I might not be back until 7 tonight.
Sam
I really get hung up on the whole sectors idea. As far as I can tell they are all arbitrary groupings of numbers. Whether wheel-based, table-based, dozens, columns, whatever. The only use I see in them is that using table-based sectors allows for convenient betting (ie. corners, streets, splits, etc). The dozens, for example, are just 3 groupings of 12 out of over a billion possible different groupings. The sectors definitely make me the most nervous out of all the components we are working with here. I feel a little better when tracking a few at a time, like black/red, doz/columns, odd/even, and putting it all together when looking for a cold number to bet.
Sam
Quote from: birdhands link=topic=10230. msg129977#msg129977 date=1298916875
I may not have time until tonight. I just had a quick look, though. I don't think we need to bother with the wheel layout, and so far we only have 1 repeat in ten numbers. The sectors are a little too big to bet right now. I would either track a few more spins or bet the first 5 numbers (31 already repeated). I would rather do this with real spins that happened in real time, although I know that verges on superstitious. I might not be back until 7 tonight.
Sam
I kept a record of my live game. Let's play live and rng. What do you think? Live spin vs. RNG with this system.
Live game :
1. 15
2. 6
3. 33
4. 11
5. 30
6. 36
7. 36
8. 6
9. 33
10. 17
I will attach excel sheet so we will be on the same page everytime.
CCCCCCWWWC
so we have 6 cold 3 warm 1 cold, I would expect more cold hits for at least a few spins, but the sectors are too big to bet on. We also have 8 3rd column hits and 2 2nd column hits; 1st column has slept for 10 spins. Dozens have hit 3, 2, and 5 times, respectively. We have 7 blacks and 3 reds.
We could bet 1,7,16,19,25,34,0,00 or we could track a few more spins, what do you think?
Sam
I think it's good - do we have to do progression in practice?
Here goes the next spin. . . . . .
5
Another cold, red and 2nd column. 1st column and 2nd dozen are still sleeping. I guess we should bet the same numbers again.
Next spin. . . . . . . . . . . . 17
I cannot give you comments coz I know the number coming
CCCCCCWWWCCW
It's strange playing the role of the wheel, right? It sure was for me. Let me say again that I don't really know what I'm doing here; I hope I'm not misrepresenting KWTQ. 12 spins and 4 repeats, I think we should keep playing cold numbers. The sectors are still big and the 1st column is still sleeping, 8 blacks, 4reds. I say bet the same numbers again.
Sam
Last Bet, what happened? Where did you go?
Hi Sam,
Sorry buddy, I been busy. The only time I can go to computer is at night time.
(Spin # 13)....................
.
.
.
.
.23
Ces
Hmmm, should we keep going...
down 24 units
2nd dozen and red hit, but not column 1
CCCCCCWWWCCWC
one more time, same numbers, 1 unit bets for a 4 unit profit?
or maybe we should switch to just betting column 1?
there is no system that will work that I found. I have tried many. MANY. You can only get advantage on some wheels from defects is all I found
Is this really going anywhere..you seems lost.I guess you are just playing sleepers hope the gap will fill in.Its a pity KWTQ cant contribute to clear things more especially concerning the graph.
I agree with you. The system is a failure. I followed KWTQ rules and I failed, losing several bankrolls of 5000 units each.
I attach a file, chat session conducted with KWTQ.
I provided him with live numbers from a double 00 Roulette wheel taken from a Land Casino in Atlantic City New Jersey. KWTQ loss more than 2000 units and eventually the entire bankroll. Below is one of his comments:
"know when to quit] 12:46 am: ok I am calling it quits for now....down toooo much...and I am very tierd. talk more on the thread tomarrow
[jrhelp007] 12:46 am: ok cool
John
Because also try it by putting 1-36,then put number in order as they hit it doesnt make sense,from 28,9,26-23,35,14,2.wheel order make more sense.But still with a few spins its hard to tell when a number gonna hit and sleep..even with that graph thing.Maybe for the weeks he was playing is more luck and intuitive game,cause im getting no where with this.
Hi Sam,
I'll give you the next spin tonight, I have the number at home (Wed. March 3) I think we have a chance winning if we graph the wheel chart for comparison. We'll see what happen.
Cheers,
Ces
Quote from: jrhelp007 on March 02, 2011, 07:44:29 AM
I agree with you. The system is a failure. I followed KWTQ rules and I failed, losing several bankrolls of 5000 units each.
I attach a file, chat session conducted with KWTQ.
I provided him with live numbers from a double 00 Roulette wheel taken from a Land Casino in Atlantic City New Jersey. KWTQ loss more than 2000 units and eventually the entire bankroll. Below is one of his comments:
"know when to quit] 12:46 am: ok I am calling it quits for now....down toooo much...and I am very tierd. talk more on the thread tomarrow
[jrhelp007] 12:46 am: ok cool
John
thanks for chat text.
i just had a through reading of your chat text. but i found nowhere KWTQ is down by 2000 units. from the beginning he seems to be on the right track. lets see KWTQ explian this theory further. lets hope he does not fall in hybernation as he did at the beginning of this thread. keep our hand crossed. oh jesus!
thanks
catalyst
Hi Sam,
Ok the next number will be (Spin #14)
.
.
.
..
6
There's the hot number.
down 32 units.
CCCCCCWWWCCWCH
same bet, 2 units each.
Spin #15
00
Sweet, +23 units
CCCCCCWWWCCWCHC
same bet 1 unit each
Don't lose heart guys; this is just practice. We probably would have been tracking still if it was real play. Any ideas are appreciated.
You are lucky.
If you recall in a chat we had he stated we play 00 and I told him to combine the zero as well by either separating the bet on the 0 and 00. Or, split the bet. See my quote to KWTQ:
know when to quit] 12:21 am: next number....down 120 if Im not mistaken
[know when to quit] 12:21 am: what was the next number
[jrhelp007] 12:22 am: 0
[know when to quit] 12:22 am: ok
[know when to quit] 12:22 am: down 240.....broke my own rule about covering 0 and 00
[jrhelp007] 12:23 am: yes always cover 0 & 00
[harrican] 12:23 am: ah..
[know when to quit] 12:23 am: agreed
[jrhelp007] 12:23 am: or split them
Regards,
John
Lets go please to the chat room on this board.
John
I went to chat but missed you. I can't say I understand your point about the zero here. I did bet it, so what's the problem? Yes, it was lucky. No one is trying to prove anything here; it's just practice.
Just to clarify: 1st column still sleeping after 15 spins, twice as many blacks as reds, 5 repeats in 15 spins (law of the third upheld), I'm betting on the cold reds in the 1st column plus the zeros. Personally I wouldn't bet the 00 anymore because it's now a warm number, but KWTQ always covers them and I'm trying to follow his lead here. Would anyone else bet something else?
sorry for the silence but one of our teachers at our school passed away...24 years old......ill try to be in chat if any one would like.
Hi kwTQ
THANKS FOR THE COMEBACK. some of us unable to join you in the chat room. in that case do you consider to draw your lethal weapons in this thread-- a little explanation as you did previous posts which are much clear to understand. also whatever happens in the chat room, we stay blind as the participators in the chat room do not provide us few details.
thanks again
catalyst
I am in the chat room now....if you care to join.
Understand it is late...I will check back later.
Spin #16
26
Sam, I am getting lost here. Later can you put this on the spreedsheet for me.
Thanks,
Ces
+15
2nd column, another black
CCCCCCWWWCCWCHCC
same bet again.
I can't figure out how to attach the spreadsheet yet.
Spin # 17
.
.
.
.
15
+7
3rd col, black
this is pretty incredible, 17 spins w/out the 1st column
CCCCCCWWWCCWCHCCC
technically we should probably bet on warm and hot numbers now, but let's do the same bet one more time.
Spin #18
.
.
.
.0
be in chat room at 10:00
+35, lucky again
CCCCCCWWWCCWCHCCWC
I didn't realize before that the 15 was a warm number
11 blacks, 5 reds, 1st column sleeping
same bet: 1,7,16,19,25,34,0,00 (cold reds in the 1st column)
Know When To Quit, I'd appreciate your feedback on our practice session.
Since I can't manage to attach the spreadsheet, here's what you're missing:
1
2
3
4
5 11
6 2,8,14
7
8
9
10
11 4
12
13
14
15 1,17
16
17 10,12
18
19
20
21
22
23 13
24
25
26 16
27
28
29
30 5
31
32
33 3,9
34
35
36 6,7
0 18
00 15
1 17
2 8,14
3 9
4
5
6 7
So the 15 was one of the 1st 6 cold numbers; I missed that.
Spin #19
22
Quote from: birdhands on March 03, 2011, 10:33:18 PM
Since I can't manage to attach the spreadsheet, here's what you're missing:
1
2
3
4
5 11
6 2,8,14
7
8
9
10
11 4
12
13
14
15 1,17
16
17 10,12
18
19
20
21
22
23 13
24
25
26 16
27
28
29
30 5
31
32
33 3,9
34
35
36 6,7
0 18
00 15
1 17
2 8,14
3 9
4
5
6 7
So the 15 was one of the 1st 6 cold numbers; I missed that.
Hi Sam,
Please explain where did you get #1. 17, #2 (8,14) etc...
Thanks
22. Finally the 1st column hit, but on a black. That number was in the biggest cold sector, though.
1-6 are the oldest numbers, the first 6 to hit, therefore the best cold numbers to bet, I think. KWTQ could explain it better. Refer back to my original explanation for more info.
CCCCCCWWWCCWCHCCWCC 13 cold, 6 repeats
we should keep betting cold, although technically the 0 and 00 are warm now; we could replace them with 4 and 5
we're at +27
I just think that when playing inside numbers, the 0 and 00 are just 2 more pockets like the rest. KWTQ could weigh in on this too.
Gotta hit the sack; big day tomorrow.
Sam
Just to clarify:
Hot numbers are numbers that show the most hits on your graph.....it usually looks like a bell curve personal decision on how far down to play the hot numbers usually plan on every 5-8 hits should be a hot number..meaning play about 8 hot numbers when the "curve showes its time for a hot number to hit. remember the exp. curve rule you will have twice as many single hits as a hot number as you will have doubles (back to back hot numbers) on a hot number, so its best to review (mentally) how many previous hits (singles or doubles or triples) have occured.
Do the same with cold numbers or sleepers .... I find it is best to play the largest sector of sleepers on your graph paper....usually after a 141 spins your cold numbers become your hot ones so stay alert.
Always (personal opinion...the only difference in 0 and 00 is it is more difficult to place bets all around the number unlike other numbers you expect to hit) play a recovery bet on your 0 00 this buys you a spin to hit on your suspected numbers on your graph....sometimes your 0 00 become hot numbers.
if playing a cold sector and you get a hit say on number 22 look back at the log (record of previous numbers) and see if the twenties have had repeat hits...for instance you just get a hit in the sleeping sector of 20 the previous log show this
20........24..........29.......26......21
No repeat hits in the twenties....place another bet in the twenties and another bet on the repeat number...you can pull up any actual and see that sectors usually repeat sometimes up to 6 times (although rarely) usually after a long dormant period.
I have a new easier way to chart your numbers less complicated if you would like to see.
I have been watching your simulation ( 2 reasons to not respond 1. I honestly didn't have time I was keeping tabs through my cell phone. 2. The curve is something you have to learn with LOTS of practice...it can not be told to you) and your on the right track....I usually do not keep that close tabs on streets and collumns, just mentally. It is great practice though to understand how the curve works in actual play. The opening game requires a different tactic than the middle to late game. Some thing I have found that works well is the first 6 spins if you have no repeats..it is too early to play hot or cold so look at your graph. You will usually have numbers (hits) spaces and numbers. Bet on the number in front of and after the hit..for instance if you have marked hits as 2-9-12-16-33-36, place bets with the idea of a progression on 1-3-8-10-11-13-15-17-32-34-35-0.....if you have a hit start playing all the numbers last hit...once you have a hit you have your new hot number to always play till other hits over take it as a hot number. Next play your large sleeping sector, then play your last 5 or first 5 numbers on your new graph (like I mentioned I have a new way to graph that has worked great for me..I will explain in chat) but stay on the first or last 5 untill they hit. Don't jump off, your odds decrease. (its called the let's make a deal or monty hall paradox....door number 1, door number 2, door number 3)
More later
I will be in the chat room for about an hour if you would like to drop in.
If you are wondering how the system is going I am still winning. Since my new graph I am playing it slower but am using less bankroll to start. I used a bank roll of 400 and cashed out after 2 hours of play 7000 +. usually it is between 3000 and 6000. I went yesterday to a live wheel and cashed out after 45 min plus 500 units. It is much harder to play a live wheel because of speed at which bets are placed is effected. I have started working on my friendship with the casino owner. Showing him tips and how to train his people to be on the lookout for thievs. Along with when to balance his wheel. One thing he told me that I didn't realize is he welcomes winners like me. He is kind because he expects me to return but mostly because winners attract looser. Something I am trying to change.
Hi KWTQ, I know its a big ask but would it be possible for you to give like a thorough explanation from the beginning of how the system works. I'm a complete newby to playing roulette in general so it would be a great help if you do. Thanks
Hi KWTW im doing it this way.Tracking Line bet 1-6.For each line bet i have 2 collums,1 for spin number,the other for spaces between each hit for the Line bet.A line is number 1-6,7-12 etc..i find it easier,as im placing only one bet for 6 numbers,and with small progression.PRACTISE IS THE KEY.
Quote from: know when to quit on March 04, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
Do the same with cold numbers or sleepers .... I find it is best to play the largest sector of sleepers on your graph paper....usually after a 141 spins your cold numbers become your hot ones so stay alert.
Hi, nice to see you again :)
Sorry was that a typo? or we are to track 141 spins? or do you mean a 1 - 4 - 1 hot/cold combo?
Quote from: know when to quit on March 04, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
if playing a cold sector and you get a hit say on number 22 look back at the log (record of previous numbers) and see if the twenties have had repeat hits...for instance you just get a hit in the sleeping sector of 20 the previous log show this
20........24..........29.......26......21
No repeat hits in the twenties....place another bet in the twenties and another bet on the repeat number...
I'm confused here. 20,24,29,etc; these definitely look like repeat hits in the twenties. Can anyone help me? Maybe I'm missing something.
the dots in between the numbers are where the wheel has landed on other numbers other than 20s.
afte 141 spins hots can become cold and vise versa.
I really overstayed my welcome yesterday. I was curious how much I could win if I went more than 2 hours, so I stayed 11:30 to 4:00 winnings over 8000 PURE winnings. over 13,000 in total winnings. i am trying to get free to go to st. louis or vegas soon......although the thought of it makes me very nervous.
First of all I wanna congratulate you KWTQ for your winnings, it seems that you are very experienced and you get throw any situation you encounter even when the casino is trying to back you off . . . Second of all, I started to read all of you messages from when the thread started but unfortunately I got lost on the road :( (and of what I have seen, I think that a lot of people are in this position :() . . . So could you explain in small steps how are you analyzing the numbers . . . in what types do you divide them ( I mean hot-cold-worm, dozens, columns, red-black etc. ) . . . Another thing that I guess we all didn't understood it is that curve that you expect, who do you make that curve? you make a graph on excel? what values you enter? . . . I think it would be much more effective if you could give an example of let's say 25-35 numbers and tell us what you do from start, I mean first you right down you first 10 numbers (or i don't know), then . . . and so on . . . It would really help us . . . I do not have so much experience but I am neither a beginner at roulette but unfortunately you put me in a big mist :D . . . I would really appreciate if you could explain it to us in small steps your system (of what I've searched, this is the most complicated and elevated system) . . . thank you and congratulation for what you accomplished, for the effort that you made on this thread . . .
Quote from: know when to quit on March 04, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
Just to clarify:
Hot numbers are numbers that show the most hits on your graph.....it usually looks like a bell curve personal decision on how far down to play the hot numbers usually plan on every 5-8 hits should be a hot number..meaning play about 8 hot numbers when the "curve showes its time for a hot number to hit. remember the exp. curve rule you will have twice as many single hits as a hot number as you will have doubles (back to back hot numbers) on a hot number, so its best to review (mentally) how many previous hits (singles or doubles or triples) have occured.
Do the same with cold numbers or sleepers .... I find it is best to play the largest sector of sleepers on your graph paper....usually after a 141 spins your cold numbers become your hot ones so stay alert.
Always (personal opinion...the only difference in 0 and 00 is it is more difficult to place bets all around the number unlike other numbers you expect to hit) play a recovery bet on your 0 00 this buys you a spin to hit on your suspected numbers on your graph....sometimes your 0 00 become hot numbers.
if playing a cold sector and you get a hit say on number 22 look back at the log (record of previous numbers) and see if the twenties have had repeat hits...for instance you just get a hit in the sleeping sector of 20 the previous log show this
20........24..........29.......26......21
No repeat hits in the twenties....place another bet in the twenties and another bet on the repeat number...you can pull up any actual and see that sectors usually repeat sometimes up to 6 times (although rarely) usually after a long dormant period.
I have a new easier way to chart your numbers less complicated if you would like to see.
I have been watching your simulation ( 2 reasons to not respond 1. I honestly didn't have time I was keeping tabs through my cell phone. 2. The curve is something you have to learn with LOTS of practice...it can not be told to you) and your on the right track....I usually do not keep that close tabs on streets and collumns, just mentally. It is great practice though to understand how the curve works in actual play. The opening game requires a different tactic than the middle to late game. Some thing I have found that works well is the first 6 spins if you have no repeats..it is too early to play hot or cold so look at your graph. You will usually have numbers (hits) spaces and numbers. Bet on the number in front of and after the hit..for instance if you have marked hits as 2-9-12-16-33-36, place bets with the idea of a progression on 1-3-8-10-11-13-15-17-32-34-35-0.....if you have a hit start playing all the numbers last hit...once you have a hit you have your new hot number to always play till other hits over take it as a hot number. Next play your large sleeping sector, then play your last 5 or first 5 numbers on your new graph (like I mentioned I have a new way to graph that has worked great for me..I will explain in chat) but stay on the first or last 5 untill they hit. Don't jump off, your odds decrease. (its called the let's make a deal or monty hall paradox....door number 1, door number 2, door number 3)
More later
I will be in the chat room for about an hour if you would like to drop in.
If you are wondering how the system is going I am still winning. Since my new graph I am playing it slower but am using less bankroll to start. I used a bank roll of 400 and cashed out after 2 hours of play 7000 +. usually it is between 3000 and 6000. I went yesterday to a live wheel and cashed out after 45 min plus 500 units. It is much harder to play a live wheel because of speed at which bets are placed is effected. I have started working on my friendship with the casino owner. Showing him tips and how to train his people to be on the lookout for thievs. Along with when to balance his wheel. One thing he told me that I didn't realize is he welcomes winners like me. He is kind because he expects me to return but mostly because winners attract loser. Something I am trying to change.
Wow. There's a lot in here. So KWTQ, you weren't playing live wheels all this time? What were you playing?
Personally I can't wait to see the new chart.
Why exactly 141?
So for everybody else, I think KWTQ is pointing out that RR happens half as many times as R, and BBB happens half as many times as BB, singles, doubles, triples, etc. So if we see a lot of single occurrences, like those 5 single 20's in his example, we should have 2.5 doubles by now, and 1.25 triples, so we should bet again on any 20. I hope I'm clarifying so KWTQ can spend less time repeating himself and we can learn more. Please tell me if I'm stating the obvious. And KWTQ please tell me if I'm misrepresenting you or just getting it wrong.
So then he goes on to tell us how to play the beginning part of a session. Wait for 6 numbers w/out a repeat, then bet all the numbers adjacent on the table to those six. You might need a progression. Once you get a hit you then play all the numbers hit so far until a repeat happens. Then play that repeat, which is now your hot number, and always play your hot number alongside whatever else you're playing (I'm not sure about this part). Other repeats may overtake this number as the new hot numbers. Meanwhile you are playing the largest cold sector. Then there is a new part about playing the first and last 5 hits according to the new chart which we haven't seen yet.
So if we had played this session this way, we would have started with 15,6,33,11,30,36. We would have first bet on 14,16,5,7,32,34,10,12,29,31,35,0, and 00. Then 36 would hit. This brings up the question would we keep betting the adjacent numbers or switch to playing the 36 as the hot number. Then 6 and 33 hit, two more repeats, but the sectors were still too big until the 13th spin, so what to bet? After the 13th spin, if we had bet the biggest sector we would have hit on spin 3, and then again on spin 3 if we bet the biggest sector again. Plus the zeros. Much better than my reds on 1st column sector idea.
Sam
I am on my cell phone so cant answer much at one time.
I always switch the type of wheels I play. there are only two kinds I play mech. and one with a person spinning the ball, I made reference that I played the one with the person spinning the ball.
141 is the mathmatical number when all numbers should have at least one hit on them.(I just read where this number should be 206....I am inclined to bielieve 206 from experience)
I would start playing bits of sectors....this is something I need to explain more....and hot numbers according to what the cuve shows is due......more later. remember if your not sure what to play, wait till something develops
I will write more later about the curve I keep refering to. It effects everything in life. Disaster management, anything with a multilple outcomes. If you can't get a handle on it and how it flows this system of play will not work...on the contrary it will loose more consistantly and faster than any other system. I remember the early days of playing this sys. It made me so frustrated because I was always deciding on which wrong number group to play....having my number always show at the wrong time, but this was a real sign to me that I was very close to winning all the time.
OK KWTQ . . . Thank you for your time and hope to see some new post with more info when you can . . . Appreciate it . . . and by the way . . . I am a bit new to this forum, until 2 days ago, everything I discovered was most of it on my own, and the testing I made in programs made by me (in c++ and c# for better visualization). I don;t know who you test the system against a lot of numbers and what programs you usually use ( i refer to all on this forum) but if you want, I can make you a nice program, with charts and whatever you want (I even made something like a real roulette program that I use to analyze when I play . . . won about 1,200$ from 100$ in 25 days but then something got wrong and I don;t know what, I played at William Hill and Europa Casino, and my guess is that the guys figured the way I play and made me lose all :( Also if you can could you tell me some fair on-line casinos ?) . . . I am now trying to test it against a lot of numbers to see if it was something wrong with the system or with the casino) . . . From where do you get numbers to test the system? . . . I got them from random . org and tested the system against 90K spins . . . Now i have a hint where to start from . . . So if you want any help on that (if you need it cause i see that you do so fine :pleasantry:) I will do whatever you want . . . Also don't know how fast are the programs that you all use cause from what i have read I understand that it takes some time to run the system a big number of spins (maybe i understood wrong), the system that i wanted to test, takes about 2-3 seconds to go throw all the 90K numbers so don't know if that helps . . . Good luck ;)
KWTQ,
When can we expect a writeup of your approach? Followed by an example of a run using Roulette numbers?
Thanks,
John
Today, but think of it as going to school instead of walking away with.....step 1......step 2.
KWTQ Like i stated is it ok to play line bet group of numbers the same way?Tracking? Taking note of hot and sleeper?
Hello,
Sey....the problem is that any system will in time meet a set of numbers that overtake your bankroll, so you end up with trying to adjust your progression. I don't agree with this theology/attack. You are diceing the board so many different ways that your miss ration increases to the point that it makes it easier to overtake your win ratio....you will lose. This is my opinion.
Ok.So are you guys in Chat.KWTQ you have been on for a while but no additinal info.Im eager about the graph.Will you be sharing?
The Curve.
A drunk walking around a light post, birds eating around a dish, planetary objects, natural disasters, coin tosses, airplane crashes, roulette are made of events and time. These 2 elements are what make up the exponential curve. In roulette it is not so important the actual time between events as is what to expect next. Example here is a set of numbers.
28-2-18-00-4-1-27-1-19-13-12-23-20-27-21-9-11-13-21-9-3-9-20-20-8-21-5-27-14-12-22-23
Doesn't look like much but it follows a curve
B-B-R-B-R-R-B-R-R-B-R-R-R-B-B-R-R-R-R-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-R-R-B-R
2-1-1-2-1-2-1-3-2-4-3-6-1......
1 -5
2-4
3-2
4
5
6-1
I would expect from the looks of the curve we could be expecting more 1's, the 4's and 5's need to fill in although I never bet on red or black...the next set of numbers are
19-14-30-1-18-23-7-11-7-26-6-10-19-27-21-21-34-27-31-7-32-00-13-0-4-23-14-27-27-12
B-R-R-R-R-R-R-B-R-B-B-B-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-B-R-R-B-B-R-R-R-R-R
1-6-1-1-3-6-1-2-2-5
1-9
2-6
3-3
4-0
5-1
6-3
OK....you get the idea. The problem is how to chart for events that have more than 2 outcomes. You have many events and many outcomes...you have to arrange your sampling data to have many events to few outcomes, or numbers need to be sleepers, hot numbers, I also use areas of a graph that are the largest without a repeat number on them ( a type of sleeping section on the graph) and others......so lets replace the numbers 1-6 on the graph above instead of 1 we will put sleepers, 2 will become the first 5 numbers on your new graph, 3 will become the last 5 numbers on your graph, 4 will be hot numbers....then we will rearrange the numbers to fit into those catagories and it may look something like this
#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#
C-C-C-H-C-F-C-F-C-L-C-C-C-C-F-C-F-L-F-L-F-C-H-C-C-C-C-F-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-F-L-F-L
C=COLD
H=HOT
F=FIRST FIVE
L=LAST FIVE
There could be others but you end up increasing your losses the more you divide your graph or board.....this is what I was telling Sey.
So your graph above looks like
Hot
1-2
2-0
3-0
4-0
5-0
6-0
7-0
8-1
COLD
1-4
2-0
3- 1
4-2
5-0
FIRST FIVE
1-8
2-0
3-0
LAST FIVE
1-5
2-0
3-0
THE CHART FROM LEFT TO RIGHT TELLS YOU WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT. THE CHART FROM TOP TO BOTTOM TELLS YOU WHEN THE EVENT HAPPENS HOW MANY TO EXPECT.
I am out of time for now but I will explain in the next text this mysterious new graph I am referring. I think it was Thomas Edison that said asking the right question is solving 80 percent of the problem.
Quote from: know when to quit link=topic=10230. msg130636#msg130636 date=1299518051
#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#
C-C-C-H-C-F-C-F-C-L-C-C-C-C-F-C-F-L-F-L-F-C-H-C-C-C-C-F-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-F-L-F-L
can someone explain how the above sequence was obtain.
Awesome post, KWTQ. Thanks. I have two questions:
How do we use the chart from left to right to know what to expect next? So far we have an expected distribution of 1 repeat for every 2 cold numbers, and a hot number every 5 to 8 spins. Anything else?
You have cold, hot, 1st five, and last five, but what about all the numbers that have hit once but aren't hot (the ones I've been calling warm)?
Sam
Quote from: hb5810 on March 07, 2011, 09:02:51 PM
can someone explain how the above sequence was obtain.
I think it's hypothetical. If you don't understand what he means by C (cold) and H (hot), then just look back over the thread. F and L are new designations, just introduced in his last thread.
Sam
Dreamer. Your nothing but a deamer. Can you put your hands on your head oh no
KWTQ,
So the practice session that we were doing had 19 spins. Here is the curve:
CCCCCCLFFCCLCF/HCCFCC
COLD
1. 1
2. 3
3.
4.
5.
6. 1
HOT
1. 1
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
FIRST 5
1. 2
2. 1
3.
4.
5.
6.
LAST 5
1. 2
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
So first I noticed that all the "warm" numbers fell into either first or last 5, although I'm not sure if this will always happen. Also I had one number that was both hot and first 5.
Anyway, what would we bet next? It seems like next time we get a cold we should then bet something else, because singles are due. We have 1 number that has hit 3x (the hot number), and 5 numbers that have hit 2x. It seems the hot numbers are underrepresented, but there's technically only one. Maybe we should bet the last 5 plus the hot number?
Sam
Quote from: carlsongs on March 07, 2011, 09:13:19 PM
Dreamer. Your nothing but a deamer. Can you put your hands on your head oh no
carlsongs, that songwriter would be all over this system like a tramp on chips!
KWTQ what happen when a number repeat and doesnt fall in first 5 or last 5 do we put it as Cold,or warm???????
KWTQ i guess it is better to ask,why is it better to track C H F L instead of C W-warm and H???????????????
Hi all,
this went from betting on the largest area that has not fallen after so many spins to hot, cold, warm, first five and last five. I've read this complete topic a couple of times by now but i'm getting lost at different places.
English is not my native tongue but sooner or later i always get the idea what people mean....i'm on many english speaking fora but this is the first forum that understanding is a problem for me. I think it's the different directions a topic can go but most of all the overkill from information from different people. Mostly after i learned what some people were saying i said to myself 'aaah why don't they just say that in plain english?"...mostly i could sum it all up in 20 words and easy steps for me to follow.
Can some1 please explain this 'system' in simple basic steps? Like they would do in Sesame Street?
Thanks.
hi herald
core of the system is exponential curve. from the core it is stretched 100 miles from every direction. which direction you want to swallow?
hope you understand the complexity and overflow of the thread in plain english. nobody in the forum will answer your call to explain using bread and butter.
thanks
catalyst
Quote from: catalyst on March 09, 2011, 09:46:13 PM
hi herald
core of the system is exponential curve. from the core it is stretched 100 miles from every direction. which direction you want to swallow?
hope you understand the complexity and overflow of the thread in plain english. nobody in the forum will answer your call to explain using bread and butter.
thanks
catalyst
The complexity is made by men...and in so many other topics people did answer and made it simple if 1 or more people ask for it.
And for me it is not that complex..only to many side info from to many people....in Holland we would say there are so many trees you can't see the forrest.
hi Herald
you are right. but the thread starter KWTQ would not come forward to do the hard part as he himself said once in this thread that the system is so evolving that if he wants to rewrite, he does not know what to name it or how to define. i think it has already surpassed darwin's evolution theory. and other forum members who were in the chatroom, hardly come out to explain few things.
hope i could be useful for you.
hope RUD GULLIT come forward and goal for us.
thanks
catalyst
I do hope KWTQ come to explain his new charting and playing in one seating,then questions can be for a few clarrification.I thank him in advance.
I will post a picture of the sheet that I use. I will post the one I just came back from that won 2300.00. It has the new graph and should be understood by most that have been following this thread. Sorry for so long between posts. The first 5 and last 5 were meant to be used as lessons not as a way of actual play. To make things simpler I play hot numbers and cold according to the curve....but, I also keep track in my mind. 0 00 repeat numbers hot and cold sectors on the wheel as well as cold sectors on the table. I hardly ever use progressions but place bets according to the curve.
It will be late tonight before I can post the picture.
[img]Just a small explanation....
First sorry for posting late. 1-The coll um on the left side going down are numbers on the wheel, next to them are the sequence of spin that that number hit for instance number one hit on the 5th spin number 2 hit on the 16 spin number 3 a hot number hit on the 14th 46th 51st and 70th spin etc...
On the right the sequence is followed by the number..for instance the first spin was 31 the second was 12.....
Mark out the second to last repeat, for instance when you start lets say 12 hits on spin 2 and on spin 16, mark out only the spin 2 and wait to mark out the spin 16 when it hits again, this way you will always have a chart of what numbers have yet to hit or are sleepers......here is a trick I learned that almost always works if you see by your curve you should play cold numbers and you are playing the cold 8 numbers but 10 or 12 numbers down you have a sleeper that is a repeat PLAY IT! they are sleepers that are going to hit.....take your time and look at the picture.....even big bird can figure this one out.
if you are not sure what to play next because the curve is not obvious...sit out a spin or 2 till your are sure. Do not play too many numbers at once it will eat away at your bankroll....watch the curve closer and play fewer numbers.
Thanks KWTQ, this is great. I can't see where and what you bet on the chart, though. That's still the hardest part, knowing what to look for in the curve and how that should inform our bet selection. Did you only bet on cold and hot numbers in this session?
KWTQ or anybody else, can you explain this part below; I can't seem to figure out what it means, especially the "10 or 12 numbers down" part.
Quote from: know when to quit on March 11, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
[img]here is a trick I learned that almost always works if you see by your curve you should play cold numbers and you are playing the cold 8 numbers but 10 or 12 numbers down you have a sleeper that is a repeat PLAY IT! they are sleepers that are going to hit.
Thanks again,
Sam
Sam
My understanding is this.If on your left hand graph when you are tracking you look back 10-12 spaces you see a spot with 8 sleeper numbers and a repeat among them that has just hit,play those numbers as they are bound to repeat,their cycle is due.KWTQ seems to play more on airball before it seems.And on air ball those type of patterns are very apparent.If numbers hit back then in group.Then playing this group somes spins back 1-2 numbers have greater chance of hitting.That is my understanding.Not really the corect way maybe.
Seykid.
How many numbers are we looking on betting? Maximun 12 and minimum 9?
KWTQ, In your example, Do you have the betting number history??
Cheers,
Ces
monday I will post a pic of how I bet
please let me know by private message if you are interested in this, i will respond by private message if you are. i am hesitant to post on an open board.
Do you feel like coming to the chat room tonight for practice?
It's now 5:40 pm EST.
I have numbers for you from a live Roulette 0&00.
John
Hi KWTQ
I downloaded the file,its quite clear to comprehend what is going on Graph.But the other thing is to comprehend your way of bet.Im formulating,track 10-12,then start playing 6 first spins,not 5..until a hit.Then along the tracking there ought to be repeat.When my first 6 hit one,then i locate if it occurs any repeat as i was waiting for my first 6,then bet the number that repeat in between with its clustering,6 numbers.But im more curious how you really go along.So additional info welcome.Thank you.
Seykid.
KWTQ
You asked us to tell us what you think of this system.
I just tested it with real numbers from Treasury Casino, table 0204, date 11/3/11.
After charting 12 spins, I ended up with a eight number sector (23, 10, 5, 24, 16, 33, 1, 20) using a progression of
5,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,10,11,12 I lost my entire bankroll of 680 units (@$2.50/unit, that's $1700) and didn't get a hit until the 14th spin, (number 16).
These are the first 12 marked off numbers
0
14
4
28
22
2
3
11
13
8
8
0
Next 12 numbers that are to be wagered on
2
34
13
36
9
30
21
26
8
36
29
19 end of 12 stage progression
29
16 14th spin, too late, already lost b/roll.
All I say is that you, have had extreme luck. As I, on my first test of this system think its a "Lemon".
You wanted my thoughts on "it", you got them!
Regards Rocky
i dont think he bets like that but i could be wrong as i dont fully understand it.
i lost interest cause there was no real concret of anything. but i dout hes winning from luck though.
i also doubt he is winning from luck.
Rocky
Thanks for your very honest and expensive statement.
Quite simply I would have bet 8 and 0, and 8 would have hit and I would would have quit. Simple as that.
Get in and get out fast. Keep it simple.
D.
I think Dio has a point. KWTQ probably would have bet the hot numbers there as well.
Sam
sorry guys wont be posting today.....wagered on 10 numbers and they didnt show for 28 spins....couldnt bielieve it.
Thanks for your honesty KWTQ.
Roulette can be brutal at times and there are always extreme events to deal with in the short term which can defy long term expectations, both for our benefit at times, but also at our cost at other times.
There is much merit in what you have posted to date I am certain, and you earlier mentioned an interest in 'warm' numbers which appeal to me.
As your name states part of the key ingredients for success in this game is knowing when to quit.
All progressions will end in disaster sooner or later and I do not play that way, but instead play flat staking and then up the ante with casino profit to add to unit value step by step should the opportunity unfold.
As John stated today on another Forum there are three essential ingredients for consistent success in roulette:
1. Good (Regular) Strike Rate - in your recent experience this is the problem and needs to be tested on big samples
2. Superior Money Management
3. Disciplined Mindset
There are many other points which can be added also but these are fundamentals.
I am genuinely sorry to hear of your loss and those of others who have attempted to follow your ideas too soon. We have all been through it, and I hope your earlier success can balance out this event.
Please keep posting as this is an excellent thread.
D.
i used a few days winnings.......confident i will get it back though
Thats the spirit!
Please keep us posted as to your approach after the previous loss, in order that this unfortunate event will not repeat.
Often wins come in streaks, and losses. . . .
Good Fortune!
D.
i have fear that this thread becoming dead again. please keep it alive with continuous posting.
Quote from: know when to quit on March 14, 2011, 05:36:48 PM
sorry guys wont be posting today.....wagered on 10 numbers and they didn't show for 28 spins....couldn't believe it.
Believe it. ::)
I was at a table betting a few years ago , waiting till I had 1 overdue street. I'll never forget. It was 13-14-15. I played it for 15 spins straight and then stopped betting. I watched and waited for it to hit. After 73 spins I left the table and that street still did not hit. Believe it. :scratch_ones_head:
CD
The most I have seen was a street that has not hit about 101 spins on William Hill casino live dealer.
Greatings
Even if this thread looks dead and KWTQ is nowhere to be seen :) i must admit with his ideas of graph and cycle he has brought new insight to my game.Im gratefull,as im onto my own new way of play which looks promising thanks partly to his ideas.Cant wait to try it out again today.
Seykid.
Quote from: seykid29 on March 27, 2011, 01:36:11 AM
Even if this thread looks dead and KWTQ is nowhere to be seen :) I must admit with his ideas of graph and cycle he has brought new insight to my game.Im gratefull,as im onto my own new way of play which looks promising thanks partly to his ideas.Cant wait to try it out again today.
Seykid.
hi seykid
in this dead thread, you can bring life with your tweaked idea and share with us your way to winning sectors.
wish you a very goodluck and a happy hunting.
thanks
catalyst
hi seykid
dont be a selfish Dracula. come out of the darkness, fly under the full moon and express your understanding of KWTQ.
THANKS
CATALYST
Quote from: catalyst on March 29, 2011, 11:23:36 AM
hi seykid
dont be a selfish Dracula. come out of the darkness, fly under the full moon and express your understanding of KWTQ.
THANKS
CATALYST
hi forum members
dont be darkseekers. with KWTQ in hybernation, we need someone with good understanding of this thread to come out and claim the life of this thread.
catalyst
Catalyst,i play only Airball..i have add KWTQ insights to my game,and still adding..what i can say i find it much better to place 1-36 then track ,instead wheel order.Then as numbers repeat they will cluster with another repeat.So putting spins in group of 6 is a good idea.Sorry its hard to explain,but im still learning also. Cheers Seykid.
Quote from: seykid29 on April 05, 2011, 02:32:20 PM
Catalyst,I play only Airball..I have add KWTQ insights to my game,and still adding..what I can say I find it much better to place 1-36 then track ,instead wheel order.Then as numbers repeat they will cluster with another repeat.So putting spins in group of 6 is a good idea.Sorry its hard to explain,but im still learning also. Cheers Seykid.
hi Seykid
at first thanks for your comeback.
so you are suggesting to follow the tableorder instead of wheelorder for tracking. then making of group of 6 repeat numbers. for example, 2, 32, 4, 16, 9, and 25 are repeat numbers. we add more repeat numbers to them and find out cluster of six numbers which are close to each other according to the board numbers (could be in 1st or 2nd or 3rd dozen. am i right?
thanks
catalyst
Catalyst
You already have the basic idea Mate,work on that.Study your spins..apply what you already know..test it..test it.
Im sure you will stumble upon another method..your own style.
Hello all,
Just an update that I wanted to post.....have been playing many many times refining my way of play. Made back all that I lost and much much more. Please continue working with what I call the exponential curve...there is definately something to this.
JJh
So It figures understanding the Curve is the real Gem.
Seykid.
Quote from: know when to quit on April 09, 2011, 10:38:06 PM
Hello all,
Just an update that I wanted to post.....have been playing many many times refining my way of play. Made back all that I lost and much much more. Please continue working with what I call the exponential curve...there is definately something to this.
JJh
HI KWTQ
thanks for your contribution in this thread. many of us got basic or more understanding of your exponential curve. but a bit more contribution using exponential curve with few more spins could enhance our understanding quiet rapidly. from time to time if you just put a small paragraph in this thread explaining your different pattern of play, the forum members will be greatly benefitted.
your explanations are greatly appreciated.
happy hunting.
thanks
catalyst
Looking forward to further work with the exponential curve.
Best
Dio.
Must say,with 500 units bank,aiming for 100 units this system is still afavorite of mine,played the original way,largest gap,then close and close gap.But i track linear 1-36,not wheel.As this way i find ,despite what others will say,it is better as a way of randomness,as i play just Airball and mechanical as it is,can hit large sectors one after another,so playing wheel base is not that favorable for me..my view.But thsi sysem sure wins.Slowly but surely. :dance1:
seykid29,
can you please go over a session supplying roulette spins and how the method a actually works. Including the curve.
Thanks you for helping us out as well.
John
Quote from: know when to quit on April 09, 2011, 10:38:06 PM
Hello all,
Just an update that I wanted to post.....have been playing many many times refining my way of play. Made back all that I lost and much much more. Please continue working with what I call the exponential curve...there is definately something to this.
JJh
\Try using light blue it makes more sense
Quote from: jrhelp007 on July 01, 2011, 12:28:00 PM
seykid29,
can you please go over a session supplying roulette spins and how the method a actually works. Including the curve.
Thanks you for helping us out as well.
John
im playing it like the original.Tracking 1-36,then playing largest gap,maximum 10 numbers.On airball they do hit.Then i find the next largest gap.And work from there.But at times when playing,eg. the twenties 20-29 they havent hit for a while,when they do hit i let it run for 2 hits more which they normally do.This things is hard to explain with spins.It comes a little from experience of play and knowing how your wheel behave (airball) as for the graph also,not easy to put on paper.Still learning to adapt.KWTQ has given a lot to work upon i guess.Cheers.
Seykid.
Anyone using this system? I understand it.. the only thing I dont understand is what to play... after 36 spins am I playing the Hot streaks? The Cold Streaks? etc.... What I've been doing is playing the last 6 numbers that were just spun.
Here Are The Spins
3
13
24
12
12
11
0
2
4
19
I would bet 1 chip on each (19-4-2-0-11-12)
Spin: 8 comes up... Lost
Now I would bet 1 chip on (8-19-4-2-0-11)
The bet progression goes like this
1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4... If I go 11 spins with all losses I stop. It's worked very well so far... This is on LIVE tables playing with make money.
know when to quit, where are you?
You last access was on August 18. If you read this post will provide us with the latest status on your method.
Thanks,
John
KWTQ
he comes on saying he has won thousands from 200 dollar starting bank, then never really explains his way of play everytime he pops on he says he is busy,
one of his post he says he predicted the next two numbers what he means is he was lucky.
then the casino manager wants him to help him rat out the cheats cause he was winning so much and must be experienced, its a lot of bull if you ask me........if he was winning 2000 and 5000 he would have all the time in the world he says he does it in a few hours...... so whats he doing cause he should not be working........
don,t waste your time with him it is disk based the way he bets from his first post......betting missing sections..
:whistle:
first of all, how dare you make accusations about my character without knowing anything about me or my lifes work, and what makes you think i have to work. Ill see your foolish remarks and raise you one...send me an e-mail and you can call the casino i frequent and hear for yourself what kind of player i am, from the pit boss to the security guard they all know me. you jerk if you cant ask decent questions after reading some of my comments then you deserve to loose. go back and read my post and the lets talk. sorry to sound harsh bt this will never get sorted out if you attack instead of try to learn what i am saying.
Hi KWTQ it has been a long time.Please update us on your play and trips.Thanks in advance.
Seykid.
Hi Know when to quit, welcome back.
Just ignore the negative jealous people. We are with you.
Please summarize your trips as well as help/guide us how to properly use your system to make $.
Thank you,
John
Hello, and thanks JR. I have a life outside of the wheel needless to say. Like I mentioned before, If you were able to win 100% of the time (I do not, but I do win more than lose) or had the perfect system. You would not spend all of your time in the casino although many think this would be the perfect life. You would find it would be a life very very unfulfilled. I recently broke my record of 2 hours of play and netted over 15,000.00 (my starting units were 1000) The units were not in dollars because I currently reside outside of the U.S......unfortunately. I was playing many curves during the same game and it turned out very well. The day after I won the casino changed the maximum bet so it would be more difficult for me to use the same progression on plein numbers. I have not gone as frequently to the casino but I still enjoy the same success as always. Yes, I do have bad days. I simply back out like anyone else and go to a different table. I noticed that I always get in trouble when I limit the number of curves I play....or in other words the more curves the better the success. I will once again try to answer questions as they come. I am currently purchasing a large piece of land for my highschool to be on and find myself very busy......If you have problems believing why I just don't go all out and win all I can, don't forget what happend in Mexico recently. It is a very dangerous game to play if you win.
good luck
any one tell me how i can start my own private topic on this method of play?
I think you just have to PM the Moderator and they can help you have a section.
Thanks Sey, I wil do that this morning.
Sey, I will answer your pm here because it is relevant for all,
I know what you mean by wanting to get greedy with your play, but your right it kills your bank roll faster than anything. This truth is very basic and can not be ignored, if you play a progression stick to it. You can trade your chips for the next range up (always trade up when you have a long loosing streak not when you are winning) no problem but stick to your progression. Some times my progression is only 3 sometimes it is 5 to 7 depending on what the curve dictates. I have said this before and I will emphasize it again if you are playing several different curves (which i do usually anywhere from 8-15 on paper at a table) and you dont know which to play....wait, it is an art that has many benifits, while one is thinning out the other is moving up in importance to play your progression on.
More later
Yesterday i made 900 units in play aggressive progression ,but the way numbers where coming out(airball) i knew they had to hit.Then i got more greedy and lost :( but i still manage to pull through with a second bankroll and quit with 500 units in plus..my own way of your play.
Hello, everyone! I'm a new member. I've been looking at this method for already some weeks and I got stunned by the results obatained by its creator.
Been trying it and it's not bad at all. Though, I have some questions. . . As far as I understood you state that you ttrack multiple exponential curves. Are these curves based on even chances? Dozens? Columns? Lines?
I do think that understanding the curve is the key of your success.
Second, based on your experience, which kind of sector do you think can be better? Sectors on wheel or sectors based on the table?
Thank you KWTQ for sharing this system! I hope you'll find the time to answer me.
Greetings from Italy!!
Greetings to Italy,
I will write later on tonight and give a list of curves I pay attentions to while I am playing. I will say this that when I play I take it very seriously and never take time to drink talk or get distracted with a good win or a losing streak. It is like trying to hold 4 conversations at the same time...you blink (distractions, not literal blinking) and you miss a hit on a sector or curve that you have been waiting on but didn't have time to place your progression on. Do not play this method if you have a time limit on your stay at the casino or are tired ( I think I played on this forum as a test once and fell on my face because I was tired, it was very late and I had a newborn.) I try to keep my list as simple as possible that I can see what is happening at a glance. I do not have time to do calculations of math while I am at the table....this means that you have to do your homework and not at the table. For calculations I have a calculator watch that I use to calculate my winnings or when I cash in, because a new croupier I have caught many many times with bad math skills...sometimes it is in my favor, but seldom. What I mean is on my paper I try to make it as symbolic as possible so I can tell what is happening at a glance. A hit on a sleeper gets a circle around the number a hit on a hot number gets an underline, a hit on a repeat gets an x beside it and a hit on the first number on the list gets a number beside the one that recorded the hit (I will explain this later on) this has evolved over time but I still use the same play on the importance of the curve. I always (like I have said before ) try to cover green and track from day to day play repeat numbers, but also it is good to track back to back every other numbers or every third numbers, I call a back to back number a 1 and an every other number a 2 etc... etc .ie 13-4-13 is a 2 and 12-17-7-12 would be a 3 ( they seem to happen every 141 spins max). When I do get a hit on green, which is a freebie in my playing I take all my other progressions back down to the start....this makes for a less aggressive play but I have found it is more certain of winning with limited br.
More later
I do not believe in luck
Hello all,
This is a bit more writing on my part than I had planned but worth it for wise playing of the curve. attached is an excel sheet with how I play the first 24 spins. The comments are hidden to see them simply mouse over on the red corner of the boxes. I am sure you will have questions and I will try to explain as I can. To understand the sheet better use graph paper...the paper with square light blue boxes. Number it from 1-38 on the left and 1- however long you play is down the middle. When the first number hits write that number beside the 1 down the middle of the page and write the number 1 on the number it hit on at the left of the page (see excel sheet) and do the same with the next numbers that hit. Follow along writing and read the comments as they appear on the numbers to understand this method better.
More later
There is a mistake in file download,on left graph 1st number spin is 32 on right graph is 30,typing error I guess.
Yep, typo....good eye.
You know the way you mark with 'x' is different,and what is cool you can see the Xs group up back then,that is repeats group up from first 6 you can say.
True, When I talk about the middle game play this is a topic that starts to take importance. You can see sleeper section in the xs and play those numbers. I cashed in a great play one day when I noticed that the sleeping section was surrounding the number 14. The game was about an hour at the table and the sleeper section was in the first 10 X'S so I placed a surround bet on fourteen. corners split and plein each had 25 units. It hit on 14....I broke stride and shouted. The others around were asking me to explain how I knew, I said it is too complicated to tell you. Most people have never heard of an exponential curve let alone how to play it to their advantage.
Any questions so far, or is this simple to most? I do not think this has been talked about except here, but I am not sure.
I have probably tons of questions but I just seen your posts from a couple weeks ago and was sifting through them to try to understand what you are doing just seen your excell file and I am studying that. Thanks for all the info started playing your system a little to test things out haven't had alot of luck but still decifering some things so keep it coming. I have a little one too and it gets hard to work on this sometimes. Just wanted to say thanks and Keep it coming
JD
I have a question I am looking at the next bet after spin 8 you were talking about repeat numbers you said you would start thinking on betting on repeat numbers at this time but there were 11 numbers on spin 8 there are only 8 numbers that we are keeping track of do you usually bet on those 8 until that progression hits? and what are the other 3 numbers you are talking about or is that just a type O ?
thanks JD
First time i hear of this way of play.I take examples from my spin,among some Xs i see 2 numbers with no repeat.I bet on each and its neighbours,6 numbers play.Guess what,one of the numbers do show up .will test some more on paper.I think this way its good on its own.In a way you play numbers that have hits only.
Seykid.
P>S Please post some more,hungry for more :)
Hello all,
Yes sey, perhaps you have a hit on that exact spot this time, but don't for get the odds of that happening again are going to follow the exponential curve for that event next time...single events happen twice as often as double and double, twice as often as triple. This method of play is not a 123 or Target, bet, win or lose, evaluate and start the string again. it is changing after every spin and evaluate which curve to play. One curve I like to play is perhaps jumping the gun a bit to explain but it is certainly worth it. When playing look to see the sequence of your red and black but only at a glance or any other curve. If you have (and this does happen some times) an event of a 1, 2, 3, 4, or a 1,3,1,3,1 place bets that the sequence will not repeat on the following play......(do you understand this or do I need to explain it further see example below). This method is one of the hardest to learn or teach. It took hundreds or thousands of hours of playing this before I saw what was happening and why it was important but it has really paid off for me....literally.
Here is the test what would you bet next and why.
R R B R B R B R R B R R R B R R R R B R R R R
You either go with the streak , bet against it, or stop betting. I would stop betting until this current streak of REd is over. As an aside I would have chosen only ONE dominant .
Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
R R B R B R B R R B R R R B R R R R B R R R R
RR =1
RB = 2
BB = 3
BR = 4
The groups from the colours above come out as......
1
4
4
4
2 (missing group 3 = BB) Bet for the red on the first result of each subsequent pair.
1 winner
2 winner
1 winner
1 winner
4 loser
1 winner
Next out was red = winner.
Easy money, lol. But not the best way to play. Sorry to interrupt.
Probably not one answer is wrong or correct here, but since I was talking about sequences and the curve I will tell you what I see.
R R B R B R B R R B R R R B R R R R B R R R R
reds 2 1 1 2 3 4 ?
Black 1 1 1 1 1 1
The number refers to the number of times in a row they hit. I usually do not play black or red because of low pay out but if this sequence did show I would bet on more than you have many reds and a few black. First I would take the first 2 sequences of reds as sampling chatter and that would leave me with
Reds 1-2-3-4-
I would bet that the next hit would not be a red to make the run a 1-2-3-4-5 if it did hit on red I would then bet that it would not be a run of 5 red by betting that it would become a run of 6 If it does become a run of six then I would change my attention to black and bet that the next time black hits that it will hit again to have a run of 2 breaking the sequence of 6 single black events.
In other words my next bet would be a progression of 6 using the standard martingale why. Lets finish the sequence with some samples
reds 1-2-3-4- you have 4 reds that have hit, bet 100 on black if red hits you not have a 1-2-3-4-possibly a 5 bet 200 on red if red hits you have a rare 1-2-3-4-5, wait for a black then a red to hit again and then start betting that it will not be a 1-2-3-4-5-6
Like I said this is something I keep my eye out for but it is not part of the curve I play, but I will break from playing the curve sometimes to chase the end of a rare sequence.
More later
Hey JD,
I was looking trying to see what you are referring to and do not see it.....I do need glasses. Open up any thread with actuals in it and start tracking like I explained in the post with the attachment of the excel sheet. The problem with posting on excel is the screen is not long enough. Ok, Lets start talking about the middle game. When there is as many sleepers as there are numbers with hits on them, place circles around the numbers when a sleeper is hit and under line the square when the hot number is hit. Try to only work with 3 hot numbers at a time. Usually (law of the third does have relevance if you know how to chart it) you will have one shoot way up ahead of the rest as a hot number. Numbers will repeat ever 11 spins in other words if you have 11-20 spins that do not have an x on them start a small progression that they will repeat. choose which of the 11-20 to bet on by your curve you are watching, be sure to constantly watch the curve events of hot numbers to know how often to bet on them. If you are not sure because of inexperience at first always play on hot numbers and green and the first 5 numbers with out X's on them, or better yet to learn what I am talking about track them for a 100 spins and then at home do the graphs to see what I am talking about, the curve applies here as single circled or underlined events happen twice as often as back to back (2 events) events, etc...etc. Next i will explain how to track the first five repeat numbers during a game.
More later
This took me a few trial and errors to come up with, but it works great so that at a glance you can see how well the numbers furthest out are reapeating and at what location they are repeating. Look back at the excel sheet, remember that we are placing an x on the number that repeated, but we are not putting an x on the number that just hit we are placing it on the number that it repeated. Here is a quick example. We are placing the number where the repeat of the first five hit. If in a few spins 6 were to hit the first 6 would also get an x and the 6 that just hit would get a 1. One thing that this will show in a hurry is a large interval with out a hit on the first five but that is not all. I was playing a game once and all that were hitting on the first five locations were 1-2-3-4 but never the five position. I noted the curve that they were falling and when it came time again I played on the 5 position and it hit with 30 units. Let me know if you have any questions. So far all I have written should and I do play all at the same time.
1 1 7 x
2 2 6
3 3 7 1
4
5
6 2
7 1 3
8
9
10 to
37 or 38
KWTQ, thankyou for your contributions and have a Merry Xmas to you and your family.
Thank you so much, and I hope all of you were able to spend this day with friends or family.
That is really the system or method in a nutshell, the only other type of charting I do while at the table is keep track according to the curve my wins and losses to know when to cash up to the next value. I cant wait to make it to the states again soon, to cash up from 1 to 5 to 10 to 25 to 50 and finally 100, unfortunately where I live now the maximum chip value that you can use with your progression with ease is 5 because the plein max is set at 50. when I make it to the states next. I will be sure to tell you all here where so I can meet some of you if possible.
more later
I will try to answer as many questions as possible, to try to clear up parts that I rushed over.
Hi KWTQ, l have tried to summarize your method of play by noting the key parameters.
Feel free to amend, change, delete etc as necessary.
* Always cover the green
* Back to back averages every 141 spins e. g. 2 or 3 hits in 3 or 4 rolls( l think this happens more than often particularly when waiting for a third repeat)
* Consider numbers without repeats after long sequence
* Numbers with 2 hits to commence progression for a third hit(l have also found often that once a numbers hits a third time then quite likely another of the doubles will follow)
* Middle game play to consider sleeper section
* Cover highest hit number(s) with low progression
* If even spread of numbers commence bet around the cluster of numbers
regards
Blu
PS Any chance you can come to OZ downunder ??
Hello down under,
That is one place I have always wanted to go to. When I was younger my parents were making a decision to go to Africa or the outback....the chose Africa, I was disappointed, but had to go for the ride.
My trips are limited to the states for now.
Thanks for making the recaps, I will add to the list and clear up some points in the following days.
Prosperous new year to all
Here is a list that I am sure to add to:
1. First 10-15 spins check for physical view of the curve on your track sheet.
2. this includes sleeper sections of the physical view of x´s
3. this includes any sequence of red and black or x´s on your track sheet
4. this includes a check for sleeper series on the table, to see if a group of numbers on the actual table has not been hit.
5. Play green
6. in the middle of the game watch your first five squares without x´s these are your furthest back sleepers that follow the curve
7. watch to see an unusual gap in the first five numbers or sleepers furthest back.
8. track and watch according to the curve when your hot numbers should show.
9. track and play according to the curve your sleeping numbers that are not filled in with numbers.
10. if a sleeping section hits play it again in 3 to four spins if it has not had a repeat hit before (ask me to explain this later if I forget it is an important part of my play)
11. check to see if your data crosses and points to a certain number then place surround bets around that number especially with point 10
12.keep track of your wins and losses according to the curve and cash up when the win/loss curve dictates.
This is what I track when I play.....there are others but I will add them later.
KWTQ, here are some spins that took place at a land casino in Melbourne last nite on a live wheel. Would like to know your observations please. Many thanks.
1 1 8
2 2 24
3 13 33 3 12
4 4 22
4 23 29 5 18
6 6 21
7 7 15
8 1 8 17 31 8 8
9 19 9 25
10 10 16
11 11 17
12 3 12 18
13 14 13 3
14 14 13
15 7 15 25
16 10 18 36 16 24
17 11 17 8
18 5 12 18 16
19 26 32 19 9
20 25 20 22
21 6 21 21 6
22 4 20 22 27
23 23 5
24 2 16 24 36
25 9 15 25 20
26 23 26 19
27 22 27 26
28 28 28 28
29 29 5
30 34 30 0
31 31 8
32 35 32 19
33 33 3
34 34 30
35 35 32
36 24 36 16
0 30
hello, i will write what i think is going to happen next and why, do you have more spins in this series to make comments after mine?
Oops sorry l don't. Maybe l should have only exposed a lilttle of this one only. Next time l go l will only reveal the first 15-20 only then observe your comments and then reveal the rest ?
Blu
ok, no problem, if any one wants to give me about 30 that you have. hold back the rest and we will see how close I am, but remember the test is in the long run any one can be lucky with their eyes shut.
l have taken note of 33 spins. Here is the first twenty. Can you try working with this ?
1 15 1
2 19 2 11
3 5 3
4 31 4
5 0 5 3
6 12 6
7 36 7 9
8 17 8
9 7 9 18
10 10 10 10
11 2 11
12 35 12 6
13 30 13
14 0 14
15 26 15 1
16 28 16
17 24 17 8
18 9 18
19 32 19 2
20 28 20 28
Sorry l noted the data back the front. Derr ::)
1 1 15
2 11 2 19
3 3 5
4 4 31
5 3 5 0
6 6 12
7 9 7 36
8 8 17
9 18 9 7
10 10 10 10
11 11 2
12 6 12 35
13 13 30
14 14 0
15 1 15 26
16 16 28
17 8 17 24
18 18 9
19 2 19 32
20 28 20 28
Hello Blu,
If I understand the numbers you placed correctly then 15 is the last number hit and 28 is the furthest out in this recorded series,
You had a small sleeping section in the teens that filled back in, 15 numbers without a repeat and the 0´s are active but not what I would call a hot number yet, 5 numbers in you had your first number repeat which is rare in my sessions, The only odd thing in the layout if you look at the look at it is you have 10 single events (see excel attached) and 1 single 2 event and 2 threes, numbers are well distributed and within range, the 20´s had a streak of 2 which would make me think that they will repeat with single hits soon, but it is a toss up between this and betting that the physical view of the card has to change with some double hits. I would encourage bets on the last 7 (15-19-5-31-0-12-36) numbers or 11-14-23-1-3-24-26 so I would wait till one hit and then bet on the other series, but you are going to be getting several hits on repeat numbers and not the sleepers that are left on the sheet. In 2 - 5 spins another of your first 5 numbers is due to hit which would be 32-9-24-28-26 but I would not bet on that happening because of the large number of no repeats in the list....when it starts to fill in more your first five are good bets.
Thats all for now, but there are other stratagies I see.
KWTQ, l'm so sorry l must have confused you. In fact 15, 19, 5 were the first three numbers spun. l have revised the output sheet in the attached under my(BLU) sub-sheet heading. If you would still like to make any comments feel free as a still have the next 13 spun numbers to update.
Once again l'm so sorry.
BLU
Ok Blu,
Thanks,
Then with the new arraignment,
the last three numbers are trying to fill in the curve correctly (look at the physical appearance of your sheet according to the curve) this will probably happen 2-3 more spins and then it will hit another sleeper, meaning that good bets would be 1-3-4-13-14-23 are good numbers to bet, but you have an extremely high number of no repeats which will correct itself....usually I have found that with low repeats at the beginning you will get several numbers with two hits (like 28 and 0) before one will take the new lead as a hot number, meaning your hot number will not show for another 8-12 spins. If you want the lazy way out for the next 15 spins play bets on the numbers that have already shown and you will do more than break even If you want to push the curve anything touching 14 (surround bet) is a good bet in the next five spins because the teens last hit was 10 spins back and 20 spins back it only had a single repeat on the number, plus 14 is the best position on the board if you are expecting a hit in the teens. It would be a good time to place bets on the first 5 numbers 15-19-5-31-12, the 20´s look like they should thin out in the next 10 spins.
all this of course is how I would play the next 15 spins
Hello KWTQ, happy new year !
l have updated my sheet with the next 13 spins. Looks like you missed out on the sleepers but you would have made up for it by selecting 28 and 0. The bets surrounding 14 would have hit on spin 23 & 26 - but that would have been it for a while for the teens. From the first 5 numbers you get hits on 5 and 31. The next 13 spins we had another 5 in the 20's.
Blu
any questions
KWTQ, thats again for your observations. Questions. . . . . . .
* What would have been your next plan of attack ? Or would you have started afresh again.
* The easiest part of your play is to cover big gaps in the table unhit. When would you start betting and when do you stop ?
* l guess the surround bet would also cover a "not so regular hit" section of the wheel so this l have learn't from you.
You would have fun down my way. l play on a live wheel with a dealer and one green. It's electronic when placing bets but the good thing is its $5 minimum bet but you can play $1 units to make up the $5 bet so progression can be used wisely. Unfortunately l haven't quite mastered the game as yet like you have!
Blu,
yep, it sounds like i would have a blast there. In one way you are right about playing dormant or sleeping sectors. since the curve will always correct itself or fill in. i remember the display at the museum of science and industry in chicago as a child and always wondered why their display of the curve using ping pong balls always curved out the same every time. it has been a life study for me but has paid off. it works every time with every random event, the hardest part was graphing it to see the curve play out. but once you learn it you see it every where, pebbles in a stream, colors of cars on the road, even airplane accidents or car accidents, i am surprised insurance or disaster insurance companies are not investing money to investigate this further. the absence of the curve can show in a second non random or tampered event, but you have to know what to look for.
KWTQ the way I see it,its hard for you to lose.Right?
I still have times when I lose a session, by that I mean I lose my start cash for that session, but it happens less frequently now. when I was learning this I had some really bad sreaks, they were so unusually bad that I thought the wheel was rigged, so I decided to play several strategies at the same time and that is when things turned around. now, I am not sure when was the last time I lost, but it will happen. most of the time, I watch people come and go at my table, they watch and ask how I play but do not take the time to learn what I am doing, and it is very difficult to explain, but i think from this thread anyone should be able to figure it out. most the time a new pit boss stands over me when I play but cant say anything because it is completly above board. someday i would like to put a program in my cell phone that would take the legwork out of this method but most places do not allow electronic devices of any kind.
Hey Blu,
Just downloaded the excel with the rest of the numbers...looks like I did ok. I remember once when I was playing and the sheet (curve) pointed that 2 numbers were going to hit. I placed surround bets on 17 for 5 spins....nothing. I knew it was going to hit so traded up to 5 unit chips and maxed out all I could and It hit. I then placed the chips on the next which was 35....I normally only place surround bets on the center columns from 5 to 32 avoiding 2 and 35 but this time It was pointing to a sure hit...2 spins later it hit. The pit boss just said, He did it again. Let me know if you have any questions on this or if I can help out further, the only way you can get good at roulette is to play it, sleep it and drink it, till you dream about it. Then it finally starts to make since, but do not become an addict where you lose money, One thing I have found is that you have to have nerves of steel and an Iron will. I played years on the computer before I went into a casino.
Well l do play it, sometimes sleep it, have free drinks at the casino and certainly dream it. Been losing more than often lately though. So l'm trying to expand my knowledge. l have regular small wins but every now and then have a big loss that wipes out my gains. l might try a few dummy runs using your process to see if l can make the right call.
hey blu,
i meant eat, drink and sleep it as a figure of speach to mean all the time but dont let it consume you. you contoll it. the down side of this is it all becomes numbers even when you win, it takes alot of work to not get numb and realize that what you win in one hour is what most people make a month.
Yes l know what you mean.
KWTQ there is potential in this type of play.My only downfall is that i dont have the proper bankroll for now.Been spending so much in presents for festive seasons ;D Last time i was playing just for me to get more spins to bring home,i was plotting graph.Twenties were due,but i had only 100 units as bankroll,so my progression was not able to continue i switch to another strategy.I was telling a friend those numbers were due,damn right when i stop playing,in 5 spins it hits 3 times..damn it,wish i had the cash.And only from graph i notice 2 numbers among the Xs where due.Soon enough in 10 spins both hit. >:(
Sey,
I know exactly what you mean. In fact the reverse is another way to start a bet on a cold table. I was talking a few years ago to a pleasant young woman that was the croupier of a casino in the roulette pit at a river boat in St. Louis. She told me that many times a person will get mad at a number to show and dwindle all their winnings and start cash and stomp away from a table. So I started a new routine that has been very successful to start a play. Sometimes the croupier will tell you and sometimes not, but ask what was the number that the last person was trying to hit on. Many times it will hit just a few spins after the person has left (there is a mathematical reason for this, and yes it has to do with the curve, if you want I can explain later). I think I remember reading somewhere that someone used this as a system for slot machines (I have never played a slot and never will). I think most people, when playing know that the curve exists but have simply never taken the time to explore it, or approach it in an exhaustive way. I use to spiral into a horrible death at a wheel just the way you described until I started combining strategies, trading up at the right time in the curve, having sufficient start cash for the particular table I was at.
You made the best decision with your money, and that was to buy gifts and spend the money you had on your family. Never compromise this, and even if you do bad at the game of roulette you will do great with the game of life.
You are right about the game of life.And about reverse play also.That is another great idea i have observe.(but not played) Often when i go to play a person said he has been waiting for a particular number,but if never spins out.Only when he runs out of cash what do you know,it spins out often twice within 8 spins.So keep those ideas coming and also your experience at the table is great to hear,loss or win.
Seykid.
Quote from: know when to quit on December 23, 2011, 01:18:54 PM
Hello all,
This is a bit more writing on my part than I had planned but worth it for wise playing of the curve. attached is an excel sheet with how I play the first 24 spins. The comments are hidden to see them simply mouse over on the red corner of the boxes. I am sure you will have questions and I will try to explain as I can. To understand the sheet better use graph paper...the paper with square light blue boxes. Number it from 1-38 on the left and 1- however long you play is down the middle. When the first number hits write that number beside the 1 down the middle of the page and write the number 1 on the number it hit on at the left of the page (see excel sheet) and do the same with the next numbers that hit. Follow along writing and read the comments as they appear on the numbers to understand this method better.
More later
Hi KWTQ
Thank you for your example. Would you please continue or add more on the same excel example.
Thank you and Happy New Year.
Hello Last Bet,
Thanks for re posting Sey´s question. I get going down rabbit trails sometimes and forget my way back. I will use graph paper to post more examples. The problem is this: any critic can say, that because they are controlled spins where the outcome is known I adjusted the way I play to make it look good. I avoid this forum many times because there is no way to refute this and anyone who tries to counter this will be easily met and overpowered by them. That is one of the reasons I asked for Blu to give me numbers on an excel sheet...but, it was extremely short term that anyone could see. If we can look past this then I will continue with more examples. I will say that all comments (except one....but I understand why he said what he did and do not fault him for it) have been extremely polite. Some people will say, OK, where is the hook behind this bait. There is not one. I am trying to share a system that has done very well for (plus I have some free time while waiting for the land purchase to go through) me, and I have seen way too many people get taken by the house edge and playing the wrong side of the curve that they didn't even know existed. I will never sell this and do not need to. The unique thing about a good method of play is that you do not have a competitor no matter how many play the same method. Everyone will win the same. I have sat at a table many times and after I quit the person beside me thanks me because they have won by placing bets on mine, we both left winners. I will post more soon.
Thank you for taking time to answer our questions. I am one of many here believe in the system.
Again, thank you and happy new year.
Hello all,
had a free hour yesterday a decided to go to the roulette table, my start cash of 700 got wipped out by a run of 26 numbers with only 2 repeats. i compared (using the curve) my other days starting plays and knew that it was not bound to repeat. today i went back and told the lady i was here on revenge. i played agressive and cleared 6000+ it drew quite a crowd especially when i noticed that 5 was due to hit, it took several spins but i kept up the progression and won over 3000 when it hit. upon leaving one person asked to borrow money the other met me at the door and i introduced him to this forum, a bright person who will do well here. more later.
KWTQ, well done.
Congratulations KWTQ.Can you please post this session of play for us.Thank you.
Hello,
After looking at my sheet (graph paper) I paid closer attention to when the sleepers were going to hit along with the physical appearance of the curve. Playing the green helped a couple of times to keep my progression up for 5 to hit. I saw the same thing was happening with the 30¨s and placed a surround bet on 32 but 35 hit instead....I still collected 875 units when that happend. In my mind I was playing the curve on several fronts like I mentioned in previous threads...... I also started the game playing 5 units per chip because of the terrible day yesterday, but everything told me it would not repeat. I will post a picture of the graph I used, but it will not tell you much because I never take the time to write my bets down along side of the spin because it takes too much time. I will try to do that on the next game I play.
More later
Congrats on your win love to see people Win when you get to KC again let me know love to learn some more Again Congrats.
JD
Hello JD and all,
Thanks for the invite, I will let you know next time I am there, it would be great to see some of the people behind these posts.
I attached a photo of the sheet from yesterday, some have asked I added comments along the numbers as to why I decided to play the way I did. The comments and hit remarks are all from memory and I think they are correct. I only have a question about the hit on 36....I wanted to play it and do not remember if i did or not. Any way the play only lasted about an hour and a half, but everything went normal for me. Let me know if you have questions.
Any idea what to call this method?
Hi KWTQ !!
I look for your method since a while now, but have a simple question: could you make a short and clear description of the way you play with the more explanations you can do ?
Casino where you play, bankroll. . .
I really want to experiment this method but I would like to understand it better before I start. . . ;)
Thanks a lot from France !! :)
Quote from: know when to quit on January 04, 2012, 12:43:41 PM
Hello JD and all,
Thanks for the invite, I will let you know next time I am there, it would be great to see some of the people behind these posts.
I attached a photo of the sheet from yesterday, some have asked I added comments along the numbers as to why I decided to play the way I did. The comments and hit remarks are all from memory and I think they are correct. I only have a question about the hit on 36....I wanted to play it and do not remember if I did or not. Any way the play only lasted about an hour and a half, but everything went normal for me. Let me know if you have questions.
it is better to scan the paper and upload.Taking picture when you zoom it is not clear.
Name the method? Why not........Know when to quit method..... name after you!!! nice method... :yahoo:
Good job KHTQ!!!!
On the attached example, Do you remember the group of numbers you bet and why did you pick that numbers..
Additional questions on the attached example:
1. First, I assumed that you pick a group of numbers in the left collum and why.
2. Do you start the bet after the 6 spin? not after the 12 or 24 spin?
3. Where did you see the curve after the 6 spin? Can you give the details.
4. When do you start a new page?
5. When do you add extra bet on the specific numbers?
Thank you for your help.
hello sey and everyone,
I downloaded the photo to see what you were talking about, so sorry it is horrible. I will post a clear one complete with more notes on why i decided to bet the way i did on that session. I am planing on going again today and mark my bets this time. although it is important to play hot, cold, first five cold sectors on the table and chart (partial list)........you will waste your money if you do not play them according to the curve over your different gameS not just the current one. Remember the example of the curve with red black, if you take and chart your r b on every other spin it will follow the curve...or every third spin it will follow. the same works for your first 3 min at the table, if you chart that over 20 days you will see the curve happen as well. more later.
I think im getting the hang of it..few silly mistakes..concentrating more on the behavior of the Xs and interval a number repeats.Few observations,After 80 spins my first number 00 hit for 2nd time. :) I still had 2 sleepers 1 and 15.What was funny among the Xs I anticipated the 0 33 4 35 34 ,when it hits 0 4 then 33 a friend was saying good guess :) .walk in with 250 out with 700.When I was leaving first 12 numbers where making a comeback..what a shame I was leaving.
Sey,
Many times the same has happend to me. I started plotting the curve of wins and losses to know when to bow out, but it sounds like you did well with leaving on a win of 3 in a row. With this method that I have played for quite a while now, I know I will win, the question is how fast will I win I usually keep my sessions at 1-2 hours of play because fatigue sets in and I start making blunders if I hang out too long. perhaps age is catching up to me. I used to be really bad in chess, it made me upset I would always get beat. I decided to play 10 15 20 games a day until I caught on. Now I am better than most and enjoy tournaments. The same was with this game of roulette. I knew there was something there but my reasoning was all wrong until I started studying the effects of the curve. Albert Einstein said "If I had 60 minutes to solve a problem and my life depended on it, I'd spend 55 minutes determining the right question to ask. Once I got the right question, I could easily answer it in 5 minutes."
Attached is the sheet from my last play with notes on why I played the way I did.....,but it is information that I have always said before.
more later
After reading the last post i must ask.Do you always study last days spins as you play..as this is a distraction from the concentration in the game..or you simply recall them.This also means everyday you play the same table???????
sey has a good question also I have been testing watching the numbers on this site xxxxxxxxxxxx com/welcome. html
they use a live wheel and your system works really well still working out some bugs but if the dealer changes do you start over with your sheet or just keep going since the new person rolls the ball and spins the wheel differently to change the curve because when they changed dealers I noticed things changed probably a good idea to start over with a new sheet. ?
just curious
JD
Quote from: jdanderson on January 06, 2012, 01:54:30 AM
sey has a good question also I have been testing watching the numbers on this site hxxp: livecasino. smartlivegaming. com/welcome. html
they use a live wheel and your system works really well still working out some bugs but if the dealer changes do you start over with your sheet or just keep going since the new person rolls the ball and spins the wheel differently to change the curve because when they changed dealers I noticed things changed probably a good idea to start over with a new sheet. ?
just curious
JD
JD the only problem is after how many spins they change dealer,and maybe when they are changing dealer is the time really you are in attack mode.
I noticed last night while testing when they changed dealers and then the new dealer started rolling double numbers such 17 3 17 almost instantly probably just one of those things i couldn't track it then her spins seemed to mellow out and follow the curve. probably not something that will happen too often in the casino but thought i would check.
JD
today after 90 spins I had 5 sleepers.Most hit number 7 and 6,hits 6 times each,17 and 35 5 times each.Yesterday highet hit 0,6 times.I play same time from 2-4 p.m.Since yesterday that time number 1 sleeps in my presence.Took a few risk,still trying to calculate in game still getting the practice.At one time was up 1000 units,finally left with 800 units,buy-in 150.didn't use my spare BR.Maybe all luck,will see.
congrats not a bad pay day for a couple of hours
JD
You find generally with hot numbers that 1 or 2 will be hot with some 5 to 7 hits each over a period of time. In other cases you won't find a hot number at all. That is no number stands out as all numbers coming out even - this is when you should move onto another table or come back later.
Just to note,im playing this on Airball.Where it is good idea also to play when numbers hits with another in past spins.Example yesterday 5 hits with 7 ,3 times..meaning after 5 next spin was 7.Also in my play yesterday the late sleepers came out twice,i had this with number 10 12 and 35 which hits twice in succesion.Today i will try my luck again.
Yesterday i suffered a loss and im happy about it :lol: Lessons learn.I made a big mistake in playing the right frequency of the hot number which was number 6.Also i took my whole win from previous days 700 units,yeah yeah i lost all.Still im confident with this way of play.Like Ken once told me in roulette you have to have a good bankroll,if you have 400 units stay home.like Kimo advocates 5000 units if im not mistaken.Cause after my first 350 units was out,im not far from the casino..when i came back my numbers 29,18,1 came out all 3 in 4 spins.Could see on score board.What could i do but smile.I was betting big on them.Anyway,stil perfecting this way of play.Especially about the Xs.And see a promising future :good: .Time will tell though. :whistle:
Hi Seykid,
Do you have the numbers you played (history). If you have a chance, would you please transfer it to spreed sheet xl and show us how you played it? (the curve). . I made a scoreboard - modified. I will attach the sheet later.
Thanks
i m playing like KWTQ stated in his simplest example.Excell program demo,can't do much.As KWTQ is in play,im also excluding a while to focuss on the game.Now I understand why KWTQ says hard to explain at times.
Greetings from Singapore,
I have been reading this forum for quite sometime now. And this thread, particularly "the curve", really caught my attention and this is the reason why I created an account .
I made some testing of my own and i notice that after many spins the numbers taken vs remain tends to exchange
grrrr this is alittle bit hard to explain. . . . . so i just created a graph so that we can visualize it.
Please see attached jpg file for more information.
At the start i trace 20 numbers and wrote it down then bet on the sleepers, as the game progress, i start betting near the crossing point of taken and remain.
I also notice that High & Low numbers sometimes tend equate.
The betting is done manually,straight bet on normal progression , and the spins are RNG using paddy, 888, winner and my own coded RNG.
After 55spins i got an average of +300units, sometimes i am getting +500units.
minimum bet here in MBS is 2sgd.
bankroll is 200.
Sorry if there might be some grammatical errors, english is not my first language.
Kudos to KWTQ!
marvin
Thanks Marvin. Could you clarify what you're doing ? I don't quite understand. What does it mean to bet near the crossing pint of taken and remain? How much have you tested this?
sam
hi birdhands,
On my third screenshot, notice that the crossing point is near the 2nd row, which means numbers that appeared twice since our tracking, so i will bet on those numbers that are not taken on the 2nd row.
In the middle game, i played on the WARM and HOT numbers.
Yesterday I went to marina bay sands, and had a very interesting output.
1st session : 200+ profit after 29 spins
2nd session : 150+ profit after 31 spins
3rd session, is a BUST, nothing to brag i played too much on COLD numbers too much, where in i should have had paid attention to WARM & HOT(sometimes i call it bubling up) numbers, or maybe my bankroll too small,only 200units, it is recommended to have 500units bankroll as previously advise.
played 2units per bet.
marvin
Hi Marvin,
When you say that you take the numbers in the second row,are they the ones that have hit or the cold.
Many thanks,
Pedro
hi pedro,
the second row mean the numbers that are yet to appear twice in you list.
went again to mbs last night +280 using this system
"...the 2nd row, which means numbers that appeared twice since our tracking..."
"...the second row mean the numbers that are yet to appear twice in your list."
This seems contradictory to me; can you clarify?
hi birdhands, sorry for the confusion.
the rows represents the number of times that the number appeared.
so base on our graph, if the crossing point is near the the 1 of x axis, i will bet on those numbers that havent appear.
if the crossing point is near 2 of x axis, i will be on numbers that have already appear once because i think those numbers will soon comes out.
Hi Marvin....
I think your method sounds exactly the same as the 'GUT' which has been talked and posted about in great length. KWTQ method revolves around the exponential curve which is something completely different.
Hello Jedi,
ahhh yes the winkels GUT, i have also read about and thats how i came to understand this KWTQ system.
winkel's GUT somewhat plays on the COLD and WARM numbers where as KWTQ plays on COLD, WARM & HOT and bet according to the curve.
Yes you might be correct that at first I may be partly(i only bet 12numbers at most) playing the GUT but that is only on the first part of the session/ KWTQ's system, as the game progress you will have to look at the graph because you will have to play on either COLD, WARM or HOT numbers
Kindly see the attached file. just ignore the values in Y-axis for demonstration purposes.
Assuming we will have that graph, i will bet on the numbers that has yet to appear thrice.
I may also decide to bet on numbers that are yet to appear 4times less numbers to bet high chance of winning, according to our graph.
correct me if i am wrong.
and yes, i will still consider betting on that crossing point meaning the option is between WARM & HOT numbers instead of the COLD & WARM numbers.
Quote from: marvin link=topic=10230. msg144026#msg144026 date=1327983524
and yes, I will still consider betting on that crossing point meaning the option is between WARM & HOT numbers instead of the COLD & WARM numbers.
let me rephrase it seems my fingers cannot catch up what my mind is saying. . .
yes i will still consider betting on that crossing point, crossing point usually refers to the WARM numbers.
this means my options will be betting on WARM & HOT numbers(base on the graph) or COLD and WARM numbers(base on the crossing point)
a disastrous day for me today :( loss 300units.
lots of missed bets, lets say on the after 12 spins first part the available numbers are 1-24, so i just have to pick up to 12 numbers, lets say i picked 1-12. after every spins numbers are coming up the opposite 13-24 but when i switch to 13-24 numbers coming up are 1-12. even during the middle part same problem.
seems like today is not my day :( :'( :'( :'(
KWTQ use to say he plays many graphs at the same time,well i think for us beginers 2 is ok.What i mean is you playing the largest gap first,when only small gap left you concentrate on the Xs how they are filling up.You play the 3 numbers from Xs not fill up,along with their neighbours,so 9 numbers.
P.S Must change my name to ''Learning when to quit'' :haha:
Hi know when to quit,
Thank u so much for your wonderful idea, which helped me found something valuable between all the numbers landed.
Attached is my test result from the data of a real electronic 1-zero roulette, so far so good. Any comment, please?
Quote from: know when to quit on March 06, 2011, 04:21:23 PM
I will write more later about the curve I keep refering to. It effects everything in life. Disaster management, anything with a multilple outcomes. If you can't get a handle on it and how it flows this system of play will not work...on the contrary it will lose more consistantly and faster than any other system. I remember the early days of playing this sys. It made me so frustrated because I was always deciding on which wrong number group to play....having my number always show at the wrong time, but this was a real sign to me that I was very close to winning all the time.
hmmm seems like i experience this on my last play.
@iwy0
Nice Graph you got there. Could you give the programing code , so I could test it with actual numbers ?
Looks like you got Extreme 2.0 as well.
Thanks alot
Hello everyone,
Long absence again. Probably last post for another long time. I continue winning for those that are wondering. Went today and in 1 hour won over 10800 units. Lost 1500 the day before, won 17000, the day before, won 5000 the day before, won 12000 the day before that. This has been going on for quite a while, when I find time to play.
I have been playing and refining my way of play and here are some hints that I think you will enjoy.
When playing if you do not know what to play according to the curve, do not play anything until one of the sectors or graphs takes the lead...this I have found to be an incredible advantage to my old way of playing. For instance if you are watching a dormant sector of 7 number that have not hit and you notice on your graph that you have the last 15 numbers that have not hit wait with minimum bets on 0 and 00 till one leads out then play the one still left. Pitting one group of number against itself has helped. Another is never watch just one or two and expect to walk away with winning. You have to keep your eyes on at least 5 different tactics (review past posts) to win. Keep as many graphs going as you can and charts going as you can. It helps to play when you are the only one at the table. Look and see where the graphs intersect and play those odds. If you find the ball is always landing by but not on your number you are rushing the wheel and need to play the wheel against the wheel like I mentioned above. Be patient and do not expect to play every spin...you will do better......finally, You have to have a large bankroll of at least 140 chips when playing. I have found that random numbers are not effected by new people taking over or varying the spinning technique. What is interesting is to note how you start each game and pull your graph from the first 5 spins from the start of several days....if you have a sector that slept and ate all your bank roll. Play that same sector the next day when you start with a fast progression and you will have success. Always and I mean always play the curve. Live wheels are always the best for me.
KWTQ
"when I find time to play."
How hard is it to find time to make thousands of dollars per hour?
Quote from: rayhd63 on April 16, 2012, 04:21:08 AM
@iwy0
Nice Graph you got there. Could you give the programing code , so I could test it with actual numbers ?
Looks like you got Extreme 2.0 as well.
Thanks alot
Sorry I don't have the code, I did it by hand :smile:
This system is about possibility, nothing for sure, that's my comment, hope I was wrong :(
I've just read this post from start to finish and am interested. Thanks for sharing. I get the gist of it and am going to give it some tests.
One thing though i am unsure on. How do you know to move to different attacks.... Say i have the a section filling up the curve at the top of my list, as it should, so it looks like the bell curve. But at the same time, interspersed with that, a large unhit section is also filling up. I guess this is where high bankroll comes into it? And why you say to monitor several curves at once.
A: So in my example would i bet the whole section at the top where i think the curve is completing, as well as betting whole section towards the bottom of my 36 list where i see my unhit section is filling up?
B: Or do i focus on my unhit section, do slight progression take some wins there, then move onto a new attack when it arrises? One attack at a time then see what possibilites are opening up?
I can see how this works, but with so many possibilities showing up i would be chasing so many curves i wouldn know which to focus on...exeperience tells you i guess?
Hope that makes sense :)
I thought about it more. I guess if the curve was "bunching up" repeating you bet on repeats/hot, if the curves are filling out evenly you bet on the large un-nit sections, or surrounding numbers.
Hello spinners and friends,
How is your playing going with this system. Has anyone been experimenting with this since my last postings.
I am convinced if you do not pay attention to the exponential curve all systems will break eventually.
kwtq
Hi KWTQ -- I'm newish to roulette and this is 1 thread that really captured my attention for the longest time. I love the curve , I use it all the time , it is invaluable and I'd like to thank you for sharing it.
Hello KLW,
If you understand the curve you are ahead of most. Unfortunately there is very little written about it as applied to roulette. To me it is the only way to understand what is going on and is the only way to come out ahead, really ahead. I now limit my plays to 30 minutes to 1 hour and like to play when the casino is almost empty. I play with a complete flower of 140 chips valued at 25 each chip. It may sound strange playing with chips that high but to me it is just numbers not money. I always walk away after winning 3000.00. I always bet on the inside and use a small progression of 1,1,2,3 . The most difficult thing for me was to come up with a way of charting the flow of numbers spun that would allow me to see the curve easier. Once accomplished it made all the difference in the world as far as winning, I also realized that it did not just apply to roulette but all games of chance, and all events with random outcomes. I think many people play the curve to their advantage subconsciously. I hope this thread will bring it more out in the open. It is the only method I play. Keep reading and let me know your view or questions you may have. Once again I would never charge a cent for this method. Just hope you can use it to your advantage.
KWTQ
welcome back kwtq :)
hope you will stay for a while as i need to have some inquiries if i am playing it correctly.
maybe for starters can you check and confirm if i am getting it correct? kindly see my post in page 23-24
hi Marvin thanks for your comments I'll try to stick around a little bit longer this time to help out your questions and to help out others that might have questions also. one thing I noticed that you're saying is if this happens then this will happen. and that's a dangerous trap to get in I know we like to have absolute but when you're watching the curve there are not really absolute to play with, other than the curve. I hope that doesn't sound to contradictory if it does I'll show you more what I'm talking about later. there is a way to rapidly graph your numbers the fall and plot them to the curve. the new way of graphing is the way I came up with about a year ago that helped me out quite a bit. you always have to play according to the exponential curve and you always have to run several curves at the same time.
Hi KWTQ -- Thanks for the reply and glad you are going to stick around for a while.
I don't know if I have grasped the curve as perhaps you have but I have definitely found a way to use it to my advantage.It is a great pointer in telling me when I should be looking to bet and even more importantly when I should not be betting.This is invaluable.
A question I have is when you are using a system ( of maybe 4 or 5 for a particular session ) that has 30 pieces of data ( hits ) in its curve , do you split it down into say 3 sub curves of 10 in each , I do this as it highlights bets ( or non bets ) on the short term curve as well as the longer term full session curve. Of course this is a lot easier to do sitting at home than in a casino,but as I don't live anywhere near a casino it's an essential part now of what I do each day.
Any examples you can give demonstrating how you would use the curve would be greatly appreciated by me and I'm sure many others out there,especially your new way of graphing the numbers to the curve and maybe some more examples of how you play now.
Cheers.
Quote from: know when to quit on May 27, 2013, 01:12:48 PM
hi Marvin thanks for your comments I'll try to stick around a little bit longer this time to help out your questions and to help out others that might have questions also.
Thank you very much! :D
Quote
one thing I noticed that you're saying is if this happens then this will happen. and that's a dangerous trap to get in I know we like to have absolute but when you're watching the curve there are not really absolute to play with, other than the curve. I hope that doesn't sound to contradictory if it does I'll show you more what I'm talking about later.
I agree. overtime since I last posted that statement I learned lots of things about roulette, one of them is we tried to do things mechanically when it isn't supposed to.
Quote
there is a way to rapidly graph your numbers the fall and plot them to the curve. the new way of graphing is the way I came up with about a year ago that helped me out quite a bit. you always have to play according to the exponential curve and you always have to run several curves at the same time.
That graph would really help, I am still waiting for 20-24 spins before starting to bet. not to mention the tracking of ECs & Dozens.
I will have more time this afternoon, or in about 3 hours to write more. But, for now I will touch on how to start the game. If you are not sure what to play, or you are a beginner. let the others at the table play while you take note. Jump in when you are confident that a curve is happening to your advantage. If you are the only one at the table then look over your past records of your starting play. If you notice according to the curve that a sector or trend is happening then place bets on those sectors that the trend will not continue to happen, but according to the curve, not just because it does or does not happen often. Many times an anomaly will happen but once you look at the curve you see that it was not an anomaly but the timing was dictated because of the curve. If you see that you do not have any previous reliable data to go by then place bets on 0 or 00 for about 5-6 spins until you have evidence on your graph to play ( I will post the graph later). If you are not sure what to play sit out and organize your thoughts till you are confident. Never, Never get mad at a sector or number, watch those that do and play theirs after they leave.....this can sometimes be comical. These are the curves I try to keep in my mind while playing. Repeats (usually happen every 141 spins), Always play green but play heavier bets when the curve dictates. Split your wheel up in ( 00 wheel) in 4 sectors do not play the way the table is laid out (I will explain later), then play those sectors according to the curve. Odd numbers even numbers are great for the new way I graph. How the curve is playing out with the table layout and then check that with your graph. How the graph is bunching up. How the sectors of my graph are being hit according to the curve. Play green and no more than 9 other numbers (this works well with MY way of playing. Track your losses according to the curve and your winnings. This is just the beginning of my list.....and I realize that I will have to give examples of each list I am talking about.........be patient the explanation will happen over time. If you are looking for a quick learn way of playing do not look here. But if you are looking for a method that will take months to learn and a way to play that pays out please learn how to dance with the numbers in this system and do not be taken in by any system that any person is selling.
Hello again,
Looks like it will be more than just three hours I have to pick up medicine my daughter and son are both sick. I will write more later on this evening.
kwtq - Would you comment on Birdhands post #371 dated June 19 2012 where he responded to your post #370 above his dated June 15 2012.
I quote birdhands post re: part of your post " When I find time to play"
Birdhands then asks you, "How hard is it to find the time to make thousands of dollars per hour"?
By my calculations from your earnings in your #370 post you should be at least over $3 million in profit by now ? I can only summise that not having time to play means you have a more lucrative income stream ?
I don't recall knowing about any multi millionaires on these forums ?
Does anyone smell a PORK PIE here?
Hello birdhands, sorry for not answering your post a while back. I can't make it to the casinos as much as I would like to because of the work I do, and by the way I live in a country that is very very poor doing social work. I have given thousands away in community projects, orphanages, water projects and try to keep where the money comes from a secret. I am much more comfortable talking about the curve than the help I am giving to others. Feel free to ask the moderator about my ip address. As far as my winnings like I said before you can call me at an agreed upon time and you can talk to one of the casino workers and hear from them about how I play. But I hope you speak Spanish. I do not play in dollars although I wish I did. If you have any other questions just ask.
good luck birdhands
kwtq
Do you want to talk about me or the curve?
I for 1 would like to learn more about the curve and the way you play. There are plenty of other threads to keep the non believers busy.
Ok klw, where were we. I will post my new way to chart the numbers that make it easier to see the curve.
I Know there are many skeptics, and that is expected and ok. Little by little you will see. The last seven days I purchased a new galaxy s4 (great phone by the way I am using it now), nokia 920 for another person, sound equip for a very poor school here, micro loan to help a person here start a new business, and some games for a children's home. All from my winnings last week. Today I will go back to the casino and win 3000.00 in an hour or less and will post the receipt with the name and date from the casino here. Please do not think I am bragging, I am just telling you what I do.....the keys are way too small on this phone.
Hi kwtq -- I don't believe you are bragging and looking forward to the next post.
By the way I don't know if you know but if you turn the phone sideways the display turns horizontal and the keys get much bigger , I can never be bothered reading all the stuff that comes with the phones and only found out by accident after struggling with the smaller keys lol.Apologies if you already know this. :biggrin:
please do let me know as well... i am very interested...lost and win on roulette with my own system... still need to fine tune
looking forward on how you graph those numbers
Hello,
I was a bit late in getting to the casino I got there at 12:34 instead of 12:15. I wrote down my graph on paper before I got to the casino so I was ready to play, checked my previous days of playing so that I knew what sector to start out with. my start cash was 3500 units I got a hit immediately on the first spin and cashed out after 11 spins with six hits, after winning 3375.00 gave 25 in tips and paid 5 for parking. I was there from 12:34 to 1:11 unfortunately it was a very easy game so it will be very boring to explain why I played the way playedplease understand this is not the normal I'm usually there for closer to an hour but with the same result upon leaving I asked the clerk if she would give me a receipt of my winnings and she refused I talked to the pit boss and he refused also so I took a picture with my camera on my phone of the graph I used and the money I won but it's so high file size I can't upload it now I will upload it when I get back to the house.
Still waiting to get home. I tried uploading the pic to photo bucket but that didn't work. Be patient.
Yes! It worked. I will explain when I get home.
Ok, horrible picture, you can not even make out the numbers or words hardly on the notebook. I found the steady shot button on my phone after I took the shot. I will post a much better one and explain why I chose the new way of tracking the numbers that I do. I used to have a good to average game winning more than losing. I found it made a huge difference when I changed the layout of the wheel on my paper. Instead of using numbers 1 - 36 in 4 equal sections I decided still split them up in four section but change the layout to:
Section 1
11
13
15
17
19
21
23
25
28
Section 2
1
3
5
7
9
29
31
33
35
Section 3
12
14
16
18
20
22
24
26
27
Section 4
2
4
6
8
10
30
32
34
36
then by themselves
0
00
This changed my game completly. I then needed a way to mark the sections that showed when they would hit and at the same time would show me quickly how the curve was happening. I will explain this tomarrow because it is a bit detailed.
thank you for that proof pic kwtq, i hope this will silence some of the skeptics.
does it mean you are now betting base on wheel and on the curve? f this is so, then wow it almost like with kimo li on a macro level :) will i like it kwtq :)
next challenge will be the betting part, which part of the curve we are going to bet
Thanks for all this kwtq --- Interesting way of graphing the sections. I have noticed that if you concentrate on the hottest 1 or 2 sections , they repeat quite quickly ( filling in the top of the curve and so this the reason why you use a small progression ? ) and also these repeats fall into 2 categories --- a. they either hit the the same sub group ( ROL ) etc. or b. they hit the other sub group within that section which means you can reduce your bets to 4 or 5 numbers with the further assistance of a sub curve for these repeat patterns it then becomes very interesting. I'm beginning to like this more and more. Of course I may be totally wrong in how you play and can't wait for you to show us but at least I'm having a go lol. Maybe you cross reference with what's hitting at the time elsewhere like red / black etc ?
Anyways looking forward to your reply.
Marvin - That Guatemalan money in the pic equals about $430USD. How that is proof of anything escapes me ? In kwtqs post #370 in June last year he says he's had wins in the 10,000 - 17,000 range, so 3,375 is relative small potatoes for his usual wins ? 17k = $2,170USD.
When you & others present pics & details of your constant large wins via the curve, then skeptics can concede and perhaps turn into true believers.
Nothing succeeds like success. Since 2009 this topic has run. Up until recent posts the thread was dormant for nearly a year ?
Why would it stop if players were winning heaps ? They lose interest and stop because they realise that they are getting nowhere as they try and make the method win for them. Why keep on losing money ?
I've read a lot of the 26 pages of posts and can't find any other posters that have claimed CONSISTANT wins like kwtq ?
Do the maths - @ 10,000 per day @ 5 days per week = 50,000 pw = about 2.5 million pa & at say 3 1/2 years (approx. post run time) = 8.75 million.
Even @ 10% of that = 875,000 can anyone lay claim to making that amount ? Even 1% = 87.5k ?
The currency amounts are all relative, they could be in USD, GBP, Euro or other. Table limits are pretty similar where-ever you play.
You make some good points. The main reason I keep my winnings down to 3000.00 per day, and I do not go every day is quite honestly I am scared to death that I will get killed. Honestly, because this is so difficult to explain how to play successfully the curve is bothersome. I could be just incredible lucky.....or there is really something to this way of playing. I have been researching this for many many years, show me a better way to play and I will switch, but I can walk in any day and repeat what I did yesterday. I asked the clerk yesterday who is your top constant winner in roulette, and she said no one only you. What the heck would you do? Yes, it is only about $460.00 or better put. A month and a halfs teachers salary in 34 minutes.
Hi KWTQ
''I asked the clerk yesterday who is your top constant winner in roulette, and she said no one only you. What the heck would you do?''
May I ask where in the wolrd you are ?
Dave.
Guatemala city.
ausguy i understand your point but for some reason kwtq doesnt go to the casino everyday. and its unfair to equate that the currency of different regions thats why we are just using units regardless of the currency. and tocut this arguement short why dont you call the local casino that kwtq played and verify? im sure you wont be having a hard time as kwtq claims that he is kinda well known in that casino. is it fair enough?
Marvin. After my cold reception I got yesterday I really doubt they would give out that kind of info. We could try though and see how it goes. There will always be critics and rightfully so until this is proven by math or by somone else. Do not bielieve any system just because someone flashes money prove it yourself!
Here is a clearer picture. With previous plays. Each previous photo won around 3000.00 - 3500. 00 unites.
kwtq - "Show you a better way to play" I can't do that but I can suggest a better place to play. As you are in a relative poor country anyone, especially "foreigners", can be perceived as being rich &/or generous. No matter how careful you think you might be, being the top consistant winner will eventually bring focus on you from criminals. Besides casinos don't like consistant winners taking their money.
Being generous within poor communities who will always percieve you as a rich man. Many people have envy/greed/jealousy/low regard for life.
A better place to play ? Another country ? USA maybe ? A casino somewhere that relates to 1st world money values.
If your method is successful you could win high amounts by playing multiple hours over multiple days & with the USD exchange rate you could return with x 1,000 more than you win locally. Nobody local should then know of your improved financial position.
A foundation of some type is a good way to distribute money as the money is "donated" by wealthy other people from rich countries (actually your funds). This takes
the focus of your "fat" wallet.
Your abscence on a regular basis would be under the guise of more fund raising (not untrue) with a visit to your favourite casino.
Whatever the circumstances putting your life at risk is not an option. Get out of the place if you sense danger. You can still give people financial assistance from outside the country.
Excellent advise!
KWTQ
Marvin - If you go back a few posts & read kwtqs post 29th @ 8:30pm you will see him mention of RESTRICTING HIS EARNINGS for fear of a rich man in a poor country getting killed for his money.
As to calling the casino re : his winnings, that's ridiculous. They wouldn't give out private information like that. No casino would. Even nwtq can't get proof of that as he's previously posted about.
You misunderstand what I'm getting at with the currency differences. Yes the units are the same but the unit values are not.
For the same play effort at a 1st world currency casino you can earn many multiples of currency of a 2nd or 3rd world country. In nwtqs case nearly x8 more in USD.
If you played in the UK the GBP converted would be around x12.
Switch it around and lets have you win 10,000 Quetzals (QTZ), (those type of notes in the photo by nwtq) at the Guatemalan casino you visit, when you exchange the money you'd get around $1,275USD.
Win in Las Vegas and pocket $10k USD. (78k QTZ) Win 10k GBP in the UK and you get maybe $15k USD. (117k QTZ).
Keeping all this in perspective, a school teacher in Guatelmala earns about $77 USD per week. So a $10k win at Vegas = 2 1/2 years hard slog for the teacher.
Naturally the bankrolls need to reflect the currency & table limits of the country you are in. Which camp would you be in ? Less money for the same effort or more money for the same effort ?
A lot of this has already been discussed in my other most recent post of 11:01am to kwtq. which I'm sure you have read.
Ausguy, I totally understand your point and i will totally agree with it if i am looking this thread from your perspective .
Lets takeout the money/unit/W/L part and look at the substance of kwtq's system on what are his bases on how he was able to conceived of this system. I believe that you read this thread from page one and you will notice how this system evolved, from sleepers to hottest, table to wheel layout, mechanical to ball movement & many more.
If you have read other system in this forum you will notice that this system has some elements of best known system in this forum like winkels GUT & kimo lis GPM
:thumbsup:
kwtq, whats the x mark for? what does it symbolize?
hi Marvin, the X is on the left side of the sequential numbers are where I mark when the first 5 numbers have been hit. for instance if I see that I have done maybe 10 spins and the first 5 numbers have not hit as a repeat or hit again then I will see what sector those first 5 numbers are in and place an extra chip on those numbers. there should have been two x's if I remember correctly on that sheet but when I saw how well it was going on I knew that I didn't have to bother with that. I focused more on instead of breaking up that 313131 sequence I'm talking about the first picture or the game I played yesterday. if anyone is still interested I'll explain the first picture of the game I played yesterday spin for spin and how I plotted on the sheet. I don't know if I mentioned this or not but I only play now on a live wheel.
If anyone is interested I will explain tomarrow how I filled in the paper from the game I played yesterday, step by step? By looking at the pictures you probably already figured it out but hopefully I can fill in some answers.
KWTQ
Thanks KWTQ, please continue.
ill post my observation/comment/how i understand later as im already running late to office :) :thumbsup: :clapping:
ciao!
Hi kwtq -- I am interested in you posting your comments. Please don't let negative comments put you off doing this,I would like to learn more about the game of roulette isen't that 1 of the main purposes of this forum , I am certainly not interested in how much a teacher earns in Guatemala !!!
Foot note -
I doubt any animals will be hurt in the making of this thread , we've all got play accounts right ?
Quote from: know when to quit on May 29, 2013, 11:47:42 PM
If anyone is interested I will explain tomarrow how I filled in the paper from the game I played yesterday, step by step? By looking at the pictures you probably already figured it out but hopefully I can fill in some answers.
KWTQ
Nope , I can't figure it out , I am obviously not clever enough.
Klw - OK wise guy lets roll the clock forward & assume you are up to speed with this curved game method and winning large amounts at your favourite casino.
What country would you play in and what would your bankroll be ? What does a teacher earn in your country? It's called earnings relativity.
You seem to have failed to grasp that concept ?
Humans are animals too, do you know ? kwtq has already spoken of the possibilty of being killed for his casino winnings there in Guatemala.
Some of the comments on here are unpalatable to you so you call them negative ? I suggest you, when in a calm frame of mind, revisit those posts and take on board some valid points of view. eg Why the long time spans between posts ? Why are the "true believers" of earlier years no longer around these days ?
As they were, you are. As they are, you may well be ?
@ausguy -- Your points of view to me are irrelevant,your questions to me are irrelevant , I can but don't want to grasp any of your concepts, as far as I'm concerned it just takes the thread where it doesen't need to go. I am here to learn kwtq's method / system and I'm sure many others would too.Your posts are hardly encouraging him to want carry on posting,before he popped his head up a few days ago this forum was seriously quiet,it woulden't take much for it to go back there really quickly.
This will be my one and only reply directly to you on this thread.If you wish to communicate with me directly then PM me. I am not wasting any more of my time on this.
@kwtq -- What systems do you play now , you are obviously doing the first 5 numbers as a repeat and playing the sections , do you do any others ?
Just a note before I start explaining how I keep track of numbers. Where you live and the economy and the political state of the country dictate how you play. I remember talking by posts on a Vegas forum to a person who was incredible knowledgeable about how casinos operate. He said he was in charge of either security or the entire casino, I do not remember. I asked what he would do if a person was a constant winner at a roulette table. He responded, he would first see if his system was one of the known systems run it through the math from his staff and if the system would crash eventually he would send his staff on him to offer him perks or ........he called it something else, to get him to stick around. If the way of playing was based on Clocking, some other marking system or an unknown edge that would win he would remove him from his casino. Aside from that there is a huge misconception about being able to win. You think that if you could win consistently all you would have to do is go to a casino or several for the rest of your life and kick back. It could not be furthest from the truth. It would kill you because it is the most unsatisfying way to live. I know you are going to say "losing is worse", then do not play. I have been playing and researching this as a science for over......15-17 years and am convinced the curve is the only way to come out ahead, consistently ahead. Do I lose.....YES!.....but very seldom. Does it bother that you criticize the method I play or me. I wouldn't be here, where I live, stuck it out this long, if I had thin skin. Usually what any critic has to say is worth taking a long look at. You may have to wade through a lot of junk but you had better pay attention especially if they back it up with math. Ok, enough said.
History:
The problem with my old way of marking the numbers was several fold. I spent too much time writing and would miss hits, it also did not give me a way to at a glance plot curves. By plotting curves I mean frequency/curve between hits of sectors, frequency of wins, loses, when repeats hit/back to back numbers, when sleepers would hit, even when highs or lows would hit (for instance 20 spins and nothing above 28 has hit.....but be careful not to use any one by itself because math will prove that it could go on longer than you think and drain your start cash). Others I use also but don't need to mention, not because they don't matter but because they are endless. Use what is comfortable to you. Remember to use the curve, if you are not sure what it is go back and study it. The spaces between hits follow an exponential curve. I also realized that this method could easily be applied to the lottery or any other game of chance. I have never taken on that daunting task, yet.
To date:
The new way of plotting allows you to easily see if the sectors are hitting evenly and if a sector has not hit in a while and the intervals they hit. It shows sequences that are weird that you know can not keep up forever. It will even show you why a sector has hit a certain number of times in a row.....but that will take some time to explain. Let's take the game from 2 days ago. I did not go back yesterday because I still have money from 2 days ago. At this point please look at the excel sheet to understand the way I wrote down the spins. It should be self explanatory. I will go into the reasons I played why I did after you have a chance to look the sheet over. Start at spin 1. It is an excel sheet format. If you do not have excel ask one of the members to screen shoot and post. No problem for me.
KWTQ
errmmm ... in you excel, on spin 9, arent we supposed to mark x on spin 7 as it the latest occurance of the same sector?
correct?
Ill check to see if I can open it on this phone. I do have a horrible habbit of typos
Yes. 3 hit thats sec 2 x on 7 position 3. I cant open the file. What did I write? I was looking at my book.
you marked x on spin 9 :biggrin:
ok, this is how you graph, it seems like I can somehow visualize it.
generally the best positions to bet are 2 - 3 as 1 might stay there forever or 4 might be not be coming out sooner? But still its too big 18 numbers + green.
how do you decide which position to bet?
:spiteful:
Yep that is it. I only use 9 numbers plus green. Try to plot 1 and 4 using the curve, always is safe 2 and 3. Good job. I explained some reasoning in the comments boxes in the sheet. I will pull a list of actuals and go into it spin by spin.
I got some numbers from from alfastreet(european) here in local casino.
I did some graphing, can you please check and confirm if I am doing it correctly?
spin # sector x's position
1 9 3 x
2 20 3 x 1
3 28 4 x
4 29 4 x 2
5 27 2 x
6 33 3 x 1
7 24 3 x 3
8 22 4 x 1
9 23 2 x 1
10 31 3 x 1
11 25 1 x
12 6 2 x 2
13 17 1 x 3
14 14 3 x 2
15 13 2 x 2
16 29 4 x 1
17 13 2 x 3
18 9 3 x 2
19 27 2 x 3
20 28 4 x 2
21 15 1 x 1
22 12 4 x 3
23 8 2 x 2
24 28 4 x 3
25 19 1 2
26 9 3 x 1
27 33 3 4
28 0 x x x
29 29 4 x 2
30 26 4 x 4
31 26 4 4
32 13 2 x 1
33 10 2 x 4
34 6 2 x 4
35 13 2 4
36 0 x x x
if I got this correctly then WOOOOWWWW!!!! :yahoo: finally after 1.5yrs I can really say that I can see "the curve"
if we are only to bet on positions 2 & 3 + green.
thanks you very much for your patience KWTQ
below is the remaining 48spins to those who wanted to continue.
read as left to right then next line.
30 17 33 27 16 15
27 15 1 31 7 30
22 4 6 19 35 31
15 0 20 34 21 1
3 13 32 12 33 16
2 25 27 20 4 36
24 10 17 30 4 20
31 5 8 23 12 0
thank you very much KWTQ
Hmmmm, I have never tried winning just by playing on Two's and three's I will have to look over your success. I have found much better success than what you are showing by applying the curve as the numbers fall. I doubt over long term you will show winnings just by using two's and three's but I have never tested it to find out.
Quote from: know when to quit on May 30, 2013, 09:27:01 PM
Hmmmm, I have never tried winning just by playing on Two's and three's I will have to look over your success. I have found much better success than what you are showing by applying the curve as the numbers fall. I doubt over long term you will show winnings just by using two's and three's but I have never tested it to find out.
yeap i can understand to that ... but over my experience 2 & 3 are much more reliable. might probably add 4 from time to time depends on the curve. problem with playing too much on 4 is it tends to be too steep that it already and that anytime the curve will somehow normalize to its natural form/order? probably its more on the expectation
and 1? hmmm we already experienced, never play on the sleepers/cold numbers.
to those who still didnt get it.
1 = cold
2 = warm
3 = warm
4 = hot
Cold warm warm hot is a bit too simplified because it is so fluid/dynamic. There are other things to consider, watch how the numbers and sectors trade places, use the curve to plot the timing and you will do very well.
klw & others - Good luck to all TRUE BELIEVERS who have embraced something that has eluded gambling since day one, up until now. - PREDICTING THE FUTURE.
I shall still view your posts on here with the expectation of reading all about your path to true wealth.
Oh wait a minute, that's the HOLY GRAIL that countless posts have spoken about since gambling forums began, WOW !
I'm off now to play baccarat - bye.
Good luck. Hope you win a bundle!
Hi kwtq,
I still a bit blur on the below:
1) Place markers - what is this place marker? Your place marker means to bet? or
2) Position of hit? I saw this comment "This tells you that your last sector is in the 3rd position of 4. A quick glance of the squares without x's will show you the sector that is sleeping, and show the space between hits of any sector. "
May i know what is it about? thanks
Quote from: know when to quit on May 30, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
Cold warm warm hot is a bit too simplified because it is so fluid/dynamic. There are other things to consider, watch how the numbers and sectors trade places, use the curve to plot the timing and you will do very well.
yep i agree, as there are some other curves to look at. what was discuss back there was only the curve of position which cud be sometimes be abnormal, it shows in one of your pics before where there are lots on 1 & 4 .... later on it will normalize... so i would suggest for us beginners wait until the curve normalize then attack. :)
shall we move to the advance part KWTQ? :) .... i like it bit im beginning to love it
Thank you for excel sheet and time put into it. I don't feel very clever at the moment as I don't understand how the " position of hit " is calculated despite all the helpful notes. Can anyone explain it please ?
hi klw,
same here didnt exactly get the position part at first.
try to read it spin-by-spin and obser the position column.
the number there is on the number of cells without x until your sector.
say the sectors that comes out are
1
2
3
2
notice that sector 2 repeat.
so you count the last time it appears and mark it with x
in this example it should look like this
1
2 x
3
2 2
next sector is still 2, so it will be position 3, as it is the third sector without x
then it will look like this
1
2 x
3
2 x 2
2 3
hope this helps as im having hard typing over phone
Thank you Marvin , I really appreciate your effort at trying to help me especially via phone.The light bulb hasen't gone on yet lol , still trying to get my head around it.
Hi Marvin -- I need to disect this in greater detail, hopefully by a process of elimination I will get there.
you typed
" the number there is on the number of cells without x until your sector. "
I am assuming " your sector " means the current spin sector , so this could be any of them rather than looking for a specific sector , please correct me if I am wrong. So ......
1
2 x
3
2 2
there are 2 sectors without an X 1 and 3, NOT INCLUDING the current spin and so you rightly put 2 along side of the last sector spun .
now we have ---
1
2 x
3
2 x 2
2 3
So as far as I can see we STILL have only 2 sectors without an X 1 and 3,NOT INCLUDING the current spin,yet you have a 3 along side the last sector spun,this does not make sense to me.
Now I will assume that we are looking for a specific sector , in your examples sector 2 as this is the only sector to hit. So I will assume the current spun sector is measured since its last appearance. So .....
1
2 x
3
2 2
Sector 2 has just hit , it is 2 spins since last hit , including current spin and also a bit confusingly there are no X's in the last 2 spins so we enter a 2 along side the last sector spun.
Then .........
1
2 x
3
2 x 2
2 3
So we are still looking at a specific sector again in this case sector 2 as it is the current spin, so we count back for the last time sector 2 hit and it is a repeat so we should be entering a 1 along side the last sector hit,yet you have a 3
I really appreciate people's patience with me on this til I finally " get it " maybe there are others out there struggling with this and also we have people's second languages involved so it can't be easy I'm sure but am I completely thinking the wrong way on this ?
Is it possible that say when a sector is tagged as position 3 that positions 1 and 2 can be pointed out so that we can tie it all in together ?
Many thanks in anticipation ...........
Please review the comments or the little red tags in the cells. They explain some reasoning of how the game is played out. I know this is simple but any questions so far?
KWTQ
Hi kwtq -- I have reviewed the little red tags many times and it is still not clear to me, is it possible that you can do an example and for the current spin show what position you would enter ( please show it as a position 4 ) and then show us where positions 1,2 and 3 would be for reference so I can tie it in all together ? This should then be simple enough even for me to follow.
Many thanks ...............
you dont have to count a position x.
ok lets change the sectors to a,b,c & d for discussion purposes, to avoid confusion and greater visualization.
first 3 spins are a,b, & c so write it this way
a < position 1
b < position 2
c < position 3
next spin is sector b
you mark x on b
a
b x
c
and write the sector
a
b x
c
b
write the position.
a
b x
c
b 2
after the last spin the position will look like this.
a < position 1
b x
c < position 2 2
b < position 3
here comes new spin, which is still sector b
we mark x on previous b
a
b x
c 2
b x
b
and write the position number of the past occurance to the latest spin which is 3
and it will look like this.
a
b x
c 2
b x
b 3
the latest positions will be this
a < position 1
b x
c < position 2 2
b x
b < position 3 3
next spin is d
we write d and the positions will look like this
a < position 1
b x
c < position 2 2
b x
b < position 3 3
d < position 4
next spin is d
mark x on the last d and write the position of the past in the latest
and it will look like this
a
b x
c 2
b x
b 3
d x
d 4
hope this helps.
Thank you very much Marvin for your reply, it's very helpful.
Hi kwtq -- A question --- you expect the position curve to have equal distribution in hits e.g 25 % each of the overall total ?
KLW,
Been very busy and have not had a chance to catch up on this thread. In short yes, the sectors tally should be a flat graph although I have yet to see it even if you start counting after all sectors have shown. 2's and 3's are usually in the lead then 1's and finally 4's. But, it could be the bias of the wheel where I play ( doubt it though). I am hoping someone else can correct this by their experience in actual spins. I try to keep a close eye on the spacing and back to back hits of the positions. This is the key to my play. I will take time later to explain this but for now to give you something to think on. let's take 3's position and use this as the basis of the curve. Remember back to back sectors will happen twice as common as 3 times back to back and 3 times back to back sectors will happen twice as often as four etc...etc... the normal spacing is 5 but do not get caught up in "because it has not happened in a while it will happen now", unless you cross your data with other curves. More later.........
KWTQ
Marvin on the spins below do you know when the dealer change happened.
Quote from: marvin on May 30, 2013, 08:18:47 PM
I got some numbers from from alfastreet(european) here in local casino.
I did some graphing, can you please check and confirm if I am doing it correctly?
spin # sector x's position
1 9 3 x
2 20 3 x 1
3 28 4 x
4 29 4 x 2
5 27 2 x
6 33 3 x 1
7 24 3 x 3
8 22 4 x 1
9 23 2 x 1
10 31 3 x 1
11 25 1 x
12 6 2 x 2
13 17 1 x 3
14 14 3 x 2
15 13 2 x 2
16 29 4 x 1
17 13 2 x 3
18 9 3 x 2
19 27 2 x 3
20 28 4 x 2
21 15 1 x 1
22 12 4 x 3
23 8 2 x 2
24 28 4 x 3
25 19 1 2
26 9 3 x 1
27 33 3 4
28 0 x x x
29 29 4 x 2
30 26 4 x 4
31 26 4 4
32 13 2 x 1
33 10 2 x 4
34 6 2 x 4
35 13 2 4
36 0 x x x
if I got this correctly then WOOOOWWWW!!!! :yahoo: finally after 1.5yrs I can really see that I can see "the curve"
if we are only to bet on positions 2 & 3 + green.
thanks you very much for your patience KWTQ
below is the remaining 48spins to those who wanted to continue.
read as left to right then next line.
30 17 33 27 16 15
27 15 1 31 7 30
22 4 6 19 35 31
15 0 20 34 21 1
3 13 32 12 33 16
2 25 27 20 4 36
24 10 17 30 4 20
31 5 8 23 12 0
Quote from: know when to quit on May 31, 2013, 05:53:33 PM
Marvin on the spins below do you know when the dealer change happened.
hi,
theres no dealer change for this as this is an airball roulette.
ill be in casino tonight ill try to get some numbers on rapid table, it has a dealer
Quote from: know when to quit on May 31, 2013, 04:49:32 PM
KLW,
Been very busy and have not had a chance to catch up on this thread. In short yes, the sectors tally should be a flat graph although I have yet to see it even if you start counting after all sectors have shown. 2's and 3's are usually in the lead then 1's and finally 4's. But, it could be the bias of the wheel where I play ( doubt it though). I am hoping someone else can correct this by their experience in actual spins. I try to keep a close eye on the spacing and back to back hits of the positions. This is the key to my play. I will take time later to explain this but for now to give you something to think on. let's take 3's position and use this as the basis of the curve. Remember back to back sectors will happen twice as common as 3 times back to back and 3 times back to back sectors will happen twice as often as four etc...etc... the normal spacing is 5 but do not get caught up in "because it has not happened in a while it will happen now", unless you cross your data with other curves. More later.........
KWTQ
I have some data on sections hits curve and hits on spins 1,2 and 3 are the most common as you would expect with any expo. curve , I have yet to start plotting any positions curves and am about to start doing that now. I also have some curve data of intervals between back to back section hits so that's going to be a big help I'm sure. I get the feeling that you also plot the curve of the intervals between position hits right ? because I can see that information would be very helpful so I will start that as well today.
Interesting stuff and looking forward to your next posts on how you play.
Klw,
please post your spins and I will give you play by play. Or if you want set up a time in the chat room and you can give me the spins one by one and we will see how it goes.
Hi klw,
What red tags do you have questions about and I will try to answer them?
Hi kwtq ..... I understand all the red tags now after marven's kind explanation of how the positions are calculated.
That is a great idea about posting spins or chat room , it's the weekend now and I will be busy until tomorrow afternoon, maybe try and sort something out then ?
Great doesn't sound like there are any questions.
Hi, i am still not very sure how u derive "the position of hit" in your excel sheet. And also in what situation will you place your bet?
I am new to this thread and forum and hope that you can guide me along. I am playing online roulette whereby the dealers are live and hope that you can advice me what to do. Thanks
Below are one example of the result.
10
21
34
2
19
34
9
26
1
6
24
0
35
13
16
36
25
3
34
Hi kwtq -- this is the message typed on May 8th by Steve when I searched for where the chat room is on the forum :-
" I'll reinstall chat room soon "
So not sure if it's even available right now.
I have lots of questions to ask you , I would prefer a chat room if possible it's much quicker as there are often long periods between posts, are you on skype ? If so could you add me , my skype I.D. is wlk12358 if not then we can do it through the forum.
After posting about chatting, I looked and realized that this is a different board than the old one, and no chat. Hopefully the moderator will install the chat plug in soon like you said. I do have skype but would rather use a format that can accomodate many people to answer as many questions at one time as possible. Did you understand the message where I said
"Here was the position I was waiting on to hit and it with with 3 units which put me over 3000.00. but, by looking at the sector hit collumn it looks like the 3rd sector has hit too many times but compare to other graphs and positions it follows an easy rule to follow."
This is really straight forward. The way of writing positions explains in an easy to understand way why some numbers bunch up.
KWTQ
No problem with skype , I was thinking along the lines of adding people in a chat room format as there doesen't seem to be that many actively following but your the boss.
You wrote this :-
" but compare to other graphs and positions it follows an easy rule to follow."
Can you explain what other graphs you used and how you used the positions to help you decide on that position 2 hitting for you ?
" The way of writing positions explains in an easy to understand way why some numbers bunch up. "
Can you also further explain this statement please ?
Many thanks.
Sure klw, Give me 10 - 20 spins from actual spins from your 00 wheel. I will give you my reasoning on how to play and why, then you can give the next 10 spins to see how good the suggestion was or was not.
I am going to go back to the casino Monday for another 3000.00 units. From looking over history, the game on Monday should last 17 spins (approx), and last 45 min. I will keep record and post Monday afternoon.
KWTQ
I play european wheel with single 0 --
1st 10 spins
16
2
35
27
32
8
22
5
10
35
Cheers
I am going out on a limb here but I will make some predictions on this game so far.
It looks more like air ball. Not live play, where the ball is only spun one direction. This is pure speculation from what I normally see please do not send me hate mail.
The sectors would be broken up like this:
32
21
34
36
23
16
14
18
12
15
2
6
11
10
33
31
29
35
19
25
27
39
5
1
9
7
3
4
17
13
8
24
20
22
28
26
First always play 0 but I doubt it would show for about 12 spins.
I would bet on 19-25-27-39-5-1-9-7-3-0......this is obvious jumping into the game at this point so I would probably start with 2 units and I would say 25-39-1 should hit in 3 spins or less.
Ok how did it go?
KWTQ
You are right about the live play , it is live but not casino it is Bet Voyager real money online table. I have some Smart live casino spins as per the one on TV channel , I can dig those out if you would prefer ?
I am totally confused as to why you have changed the content of the sectors compared to what you previously published. Would you change the numbers in the sections to suit each different wheel such as online airball , live etc. as my data / analysis so far is based on the first sections you published and I'm a bit lost as to should I carry on with my analysis using the original sections you gave or am I wasting my time as I could need new numbers for the 4 sections ?
You have written no. 39 three times looks like it should be no. 30
Next 3 nos are
18
12
27
Do you want more numbers or start again with live casino spins ?
Sorry 39 was a typo. I changed the sectors because a double zero wheel has a different number layout than a single 0 wheel. I was waiting for the sleeping sector to hit and it did on the second spin not the first one like I was hoping if you pluck out the numbers like I showed you using the sector layout you will see you have a series going but cannot keep up for that I would bet that would not keep up I think it is 214 214so I bet that sector 3 would show. it would have been hit with only two units because it was so early in the game I would not use a more rapid progression. on my prediction of the three numbers it was a prediction but not a big strong enough prediction to make me put extra bets on those three numbers.
No worries on the typo they happen all the time. Yes it was a decent hit , you seem to use that pattern breaker a lot in your decision making but I'm sure there's much more that you use.
Do you want to carry on with these numbers or do you want the Smart live spins I have ?
Also just to confirm I need to use the last section numbers for single zero table that you published and not the original sections ?
Would also still like to know how you knew to bet that position 2 on your excel sheet examples ?
Many thanks.
Sure. I am driving back to the house right now let me know when you've written down the numbers on the sheet that you just gave me and will keep on going with examples
Continuing on with the Bet Voyager numbers , next 5 are :-
8
19
21
17
7
Cheers.
Just gone through the spins I gave you and using the new sectors , I've just realised that the sector 3 hit you were looking for hit on the third spin ( spin 13 ) and not the second as you first thought , I realise that it was difficult to follow using your phone , it's definitely not an issue just wanted to clear things up for people that may be following this and may have been confused by it.
You typed that you were looking to break up the 214 214 position sequences yet you were looking for sector 3 to hit , if you wanted to break up the 214 214 position sequences then you would be looking to bet on position 3 and not sector 3 , I can see why you would want to bet on position 3 but that would not necessarily mean betting on sector 3 , it would mean betting on whatever sector occupied position 3 for each of your 3 spins, can you clarify this for me please ?
Let me know if you need more spins.
Cheers.
Ok after these 5 give them to me one by one.
2
KWTQ, how did you come up with these sectors?
4-17-13-8-24-20-22-28-26-0 single chips
2 chips on 30
Hello Marvin,
line all the numbers in a row and count off 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 etc...etc. all the ones together all the 2's 3's and 4's.
32
15-2-6-11-10-33-31-29-35 (2 chips)
23 (3 chips)
19
32-21-34-36-23-16-14-18-12-0 (3 chips each)
2 extra chip on 34-36-14
weird game for me....
28
At this point I would try again tomarrow
ok getting late here so see you tomorrow.
Quote from: klw on June 02, 2013, 04:16:18 PM
You typed that you were looking to break up the 214 214 position sequences yet you were looking for sector 3 to hit , if you wanted to break up the 214 214 position sequences then you would be looking to bet on position 3 and not sector 3 , I can see why you would want to bet on position 3 but that would not necessarily mean betting on sector 3 , it would mean betting on whatever sector occupied position 3 for each of your 3 spins, can you clarify this for me please ?
Let me know if you need more spins.
Cheers.
was wondering the same, KWTQ can you clarify this part? thanks
I read this thread like 20 times over the last couple of years, finaly now I'm beggining to understand how things work
just not sure on what you bet when you have all sectors 1,2,3,4?
and what progression you use?
thanks again
regards,
S.
Quote from: know when to quit on June 02, 2013, 05:11:29 PM
Hello Marvin,
line all the numbers in a row and count off 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 etc...etc. all the once together all the 2's 3's and 4's.
ahhh got it! thanks
sogett, the basics are you have to look for the normal curve of either sector or position, his progression is mild 1 1 2 3
Quote from: marvin on June 03, 2013, 04:39:25 AM
sogett, the basics are you have to look for the normal curve of either sector or position, his progression is mild 1 1 2 3
Would agree with Marvin here Soggett, the base is watching for unequal distribution of the sector and position curves for bet selection but he also uses " other graphs and curves " to confirm bet selection. What some of these are I don't know but I am also doing curves on sector repeats and position repeats, he's mentioned " bunching " and " repeats " a number of times so I reckon that would be a great place to start. He also obviously uses pattern breakers and non appearance ( unless that sector 3 should have been position 3 typo yesterday we're still waiting to hear on that one ) Of course I could be completely wrong in all of this and that has been known before lol. Some clarification from kwtq would be great here.
@kwtq Regarding the live test yesterday once you found out that it wasen't a live wheel and in fact spins from a RNG ( you spotted that almost immediately, I find it incredible that you can even do that, I've obviously still got a lot to learn ) maybe it would have been better if you had used live wheel spins as all your analysis has been done on those,there must be a difference because you spotted it ?
@marvin
@klw
thank you guys :thumbsup:
Hi kwtq -- When you get some time can you go through the 11 spin session where you had 6 hits and explain your thinking behind the bet selections.
Cheers.
Just came back from another session at the casino. It turned out better thanI thought it would it turned out to be about the same as the game on Friday 11 spins, I won a total of 3, 275.00.
the session lasted about 20 minutes. I was hoping I wouldn't bomb like last night on this board but it turned out ok. I am on the road in a few minutes, but when I get back I will try ti answer your questions. I do not know why it turned out like it did last night, but it happens. Sometimes I follow all my rules and it still happens that I loose. I always make up for it but it is still puzzling, I don't think anyone will ever get to the place where they can win all the time.
Quote from: know when to quit on June 03, 2013, 05:15:29 PM
I don't think anyone will ever get to the place where they can win all the time.
Wanna bet?
Bombus, if you have gotten to that point congratulations I am not there yet. But hope to some day.
KWTQ
Hey Bombus
nice to see you :thumbsup:
Dave.
Soggett and KLW,
Finally can respond to your question. You asked about why I was treating the sequence of 214 like I did. You gave me ten numbers and asked what my play would be. First here is the way I wrote it out.
spin number sec x's position
1-----16--------1---x
2------2--------2----x---------2
3-----35-------2----x
4-----27-------3----x
5-----32-------1---------------1
6------8--------4----x
7-----22--------4--------------4
8------5---------3--------------2
9-----10---------2---x---------1
10----35--------2--------------4
If you look first at your sections you see they have hit
1's have hit 2
2's have hit 4
3's have hit 2
4's have hit 2
some what uneven with the second sector, but the real place to look is this sequence (at least the way I play) in the positions column 214214. So to break it up you could go 2 different ways. I chose that the next position would hit the position that was sleeping which would be sector 3, but it could go really 2 ways because it is early in the game and I was playing a table that could and had wide variations in its norm. The other way it could go would be like the law of the 3rd or the law of the bell curve of equal hits of positions (you have your positions looking like this. 2's have hit twice, 1's have hit twice, 4's have hit twice). So what you have so far is a sequence in positions of 214214, some what unusual positioning in the positions column. of 4 2 2 2 instead of 1-2, 2-2,3-2,4-2. and the sections column that makes you think the only thing for sure is 2's will not hit again. So I chose to go with the 3rd sleeping position would fill out (or down) and looked to see what the 3rd position was counted from the top down of open x's and looked to the left and saw in this case it was also the third section and placed bets on that section which were numbers 19-25-27-39-5-1-9-7-3 actually what hit was 18 which was sector 1 which unevened the number of hits in the positions column to 1's-3,2's-2,3's-0,4's-2
spin number sec x's position
1 16 1 x
2 2 2 x 2
3 35 2 x
4 27 3 x
5 32 1 x 1
6 8 4 x
7 22 4 4
8 5 3 2
9 10 2 x 1
10 35 2 4
11 18 1 1
from this point the 214 214 was broken up so I decided (even though it was wrong) to place bets on the sleeping section and it started eating up my progression. As a rule I have found use as a last resort plays on sleeping sections because they can continue way past what your start cash will allow. The sleeping positions finally broke 5 spins later. I would of hit but my progression would of been very high. So I backed out, and played it safe.
More later........
KWTQ
Hi kwtq -- Thanks for the in depth reply. I'm glad it was position 3 you were chasing and not sector 3 , my analysis so far shows sectors can go 27 spins without hit and I'm sure they can go further than that. Position intervals seems to be less so far , my longest interval has been 16 from my limited data so you were a bit unlucky with that 1, but having said that I think there are much better bets out there.
When you get some more time can you go over the 11 spin session for us ?
Cheers.
Interesting in your numbers of 16 position runs. That number can be cut down or "expected" by comparing of previous gaps and hits according to the curve. For instance the last game I played I noticed by looking over my previous 5 games that an unusual event was in process. 11 numbers had spun and 8 numbers had hit twice and no number had hit 3 times. Nothing else stood out to play so I placed bets that one of the repeats would turn into a triple repeat. Placed one chip on those plus green and it hit and I cashed in.......more later on learning how to know if a repeat number will be hit acording to the curve....something I use alot in the above example.
Quote from: know when to quit on June 04, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
Interesting in your numbers of 16 position runs. That number can be cut down or "expected" by comparing of previous gaps and hits according to the curve. For instance the last game I played I noticed by looking over my previous 5 games that an unusual event was in process. 11 numbers had spun and 8 numbers had hit twice and no number had hit 3 times. Nothing else stood out to play so I placed bets that one of the repeats would turn into a triple repeat. Placed one chip on those plus green and it hit and I cashed in.......more later on learning how to know if a repeat number will be hit acording to the curve....something I use alot in the above example.
Yes this is exactly what I was hinting about in my last post when I said " there are much better bets out there " so looking forward to that.
My latest data shows non appearance of a position is now 21 spins, not 1 to chase for me.
21 . I have never seen that. My progression seldom reaches four chips per number so this really has me puzzled why this works....or why this works for me. But, I can't be the only person to play with this method.
One of the things I do that works well for me is I watch the spacing according to the curve if a hit will happen on repeat numbers within a sector and place an extra chip on those numbers. I will give examples of this in my next post.
KWTQ
Hi everyone,
after 4 years today I decided to log in into this forum. Guys I have spent day and night on roulette trying to beat it...as Einstein said the only way to win at roulette is to steal the money from the croupier..
Honetsly numerologic way it is difficult almost impossible. Sometimes I put 10 eur on dublinbet and I get like 150 win and I withdrav immediatly. The roulette is a good and interesting game ion short term but in long term it is impossible to beat , only with physiscs... or biased wheel.
I have also studied numerology ( numeris) and it is all theory but in praxis does not work
I have searched on internet there are other ways to win money for example there are company that make lotteries and you don0t have to pay money just put your name and every months someone wins..there are tons of them I won also some so giving a try won't hurt... the link is "bombus was here" (nolinks://nolinks.youtube.com/watch?v=1kUG4YPiCBU#)
Cheers :thumbsup:
I hit the link & my PC security package informed me it was a "Dangerous Page" !!!!
You have been warned ppl :o
Quote from: know when to quit on June 04, 2013, 01:39:47 PM
21 . I have never seen that. My progression seldom reaches four chips per number so this really has me puzzled why this works....or why this works for me. But, I can't be the only person to play with this method.
One of the things I do that works well for me is I watch the spacing according to the curve if a hit will happen on repeat numbers within a sector and place an extra chip on those numbers. I will give examples of this in my next post.
KWTQ
5 steps for me so far but it usually hits in 2-3 steps
green is also a savior :biggrin:
correction just got a 7 now :biggrin: but after that ... i got a WLWWL :good:
Hi marvin is that on a live casino wheel or rng. ?
yes live casino wheel
but hey, i maybe looking at the curve differently.
Hello again,
Sorry for the absence over the last few days. I have been very busy with "things". There is life outside the wheel.
I did have something very interesting happen, that made me very nervous. I thought I had seen it all with casino life. I went after going probably too often but went anyway. The room where the tables are and the wheel was completely empty except the attendants. I noticed they moved the wheel to the other side of the room right under the larger camera that tilts and pans. Perhaps coincidence . It was also beside the door to the security room where many of the monitors are. When I sat at the table people started running (walking fast) in and out of the room. I won 2 out of the first 5 spins. Then, the owner comes out and starts talking to me very fidgety. I thought this can not end well. I started making typo's with my spins and lost. He was glad and I walked out. This did not bother me in the least because I knew from the sequences I could get it back quickly. It was a great time to lose with that much attention. I went back two days later and won back everything plus as much as I lost in less than 10 spins using progressions starting at 4 chips on each number. The owner was obviously gone that 20 minute time slot. I will probably not go back for a week, and will choose a different time.
hi dave, bombus and xman :)
Quote from: ReDsQuaD on June 07, 2013, 12:04:38 PM
hi dave, bombus and xman :)
Hey red ;)
Hope life is treating you well 8)
Quote from: know when to quit on June 07, 2013, 12:04:22 PM
Hello again,
Sorry for the absence over the last few days. I have been very busy with "things". There is life outside the wheel.
I did have something very interesting happen, that made me very nervous. I thought I had seen it all with casino life. I went after going probably too often but went anyway. The room where the tables are and the wheel was completely empty except the attendants. I noticed they moved the wheel to other side of the room right under the larger camera that tilts and pans. Perhaps coincidence . It was also beside the door to the security room where many of the monotors are. When I sat at the table people started running (walking fast) in and out of the room. I won 2 out of the first 5 spins. Then, the owner comes out and starts talking to me very fidgety. I thought this can not end well. I started making typo's with my spins and lost. He was glad and I walked out. This did not bother me in the least because I knew from the sequences I could get it back quickly. It was a great time to lose with that much attention. I went back two days later and won back everything plus as much as I lost in less than 10 spins using progressions starting at 4 chips on each number. The owner was obviously gone that 20 minute time slot. I will probably not go back for a week, and will choose a different time.
wew! be careful :good:
One quick note. Don't forget that the number of hits per color -sector -odd- even- columns- streets-etc... should all be even over time. But, the spaces between them and the frequency they hit or sleep will follow the exponential curve. Spotting Extreams on that curve can mean the difference of winning or losing when covered by a good progression. .
Quote from: know when to quit on June 08, 2013, 03:53:58 PM
One quick note. Don't forget that the number of hits per color -sector -odd- even- columns- streets-etc... should all be even over time. But, the spaces between them and the frequency they hit or sleep will follow the exponential curve. Spotting Extreams on that curve can mean the difference of winning or losing when covered by a good progression. .
Interesting stuff kwtq but woulden't it be more helpful if you posted some actual spins examples.Then more people would most probably " get it "
Who's idea is the poll by the way ?
Cheers.
Hey KLW.,
I thought this was a bit quiet, I was thinking people were catching on and thought I would find out by a poll to make sure I was reading it correctly. I think you're right. I will post some examples from my different games to help understand this method tomorrow.
KWTQ
Will post later on tonight examples of play since it looks like many do not understand how to play this way yet. I went to the casino again today and talked with the owner before I sat down to play. I asked him if I kept winning if he would kick me out, he said no and we talked some more. After 45 min of playing I cashed out with 4375.00. units a bit more than normal bit could not pass up the last hit I saw coming. More later but it will be closer to 11:00 pm.
Hello KWTQ, KLW and Marvin// Thanks a lot for showing us the Curve strategy.
I just heard about this chat room 2-3 days ago and I have been studying it carefully. KLW and Marvin explanations help me a lot. Many thanks! I am still pretty fuzzy about this strategy.
1/ In the examples you are about to write tonight, could you explain more about the positions of hit? I understand how to derive a position from the previous sector but I CANNOT understand the meaning of these positions. I DON'T see how these positions are related to determine what sectors (or numbers) for the next bets. Please explain.
2/ About the most recent way to define a sector (using numbers along the wheel, assign numbers to sectors 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4...) why do you choose this technique ? In European roulette, it has regions defined as Voisins Du Zero (clockwise 22-25), Orphelins(1-9 and 17-6), Tiers Du Cylindre (27-33) and you can select a region simply by pressing of a button, quick and easy. Could I define the sectors mapping to these regions ? I think once a sleeping sector is
identified using this Curve strategy, I could hit a button to select that sector quickly.
3/ I am surprised when you can identify that the 10 numbers KLW provided were coming from airball machine, not from live one. Could you tell the difference in numbers generated on these machines ?
I am eagerly waiting to see your examples tonight. Thanks!
Almost 3:00am and finally am getting this posted.
Yes this is complicated with many comments boxes once again. The advantage to this method is being able to cross many graphs and curves to narrow down what number or pairs of numbers will be hit. For instance today I was playing the normal positions game like I talked about in previous post but noticed several sleepers were happening at the same time. A convergence was happening. for the numbers 18 and 21. I placed my normal progression bet on the position which was 2 chips and placed 4 on 18 and 21. 21 hit and I cashed out. I will write more on this next post.
KWTQ
Hi kwtq -- Thank you very much for taking the time to do this , it is much appreciated. I haven't had the chance to look at in great detail yet, it looks really interesting and has answered some of my questions already but I'm sure there will be some more.
Cheers.
Hi kwtq -- ok, questions ---
1. Why are you looking for imbalance of hits between sectors and positions, you say you ignore sector hits for the most part.
I have noticed from my analysis of rng that sector hits outweigh position hits by roughly 15 % but that doesen't mean that is
always the case , every now and again positions will have more hits than sectors.Are they nearly always equal on live wheel ?
2. ( from note no. 2 ) Why don't you want the sector to repeat ?
Your sectors only repeat every 16 spins ! Wow , I would be all over that like a rash playing 3 sectors that is a huge edge ,
you win 15 x 9 chips = 135 and lose 27 chips once every 16 spins or am I missing something ?
3. ( from note 3 ) Can you give an example of when / how you would play singles / teens etc when out of synch ?
4. ( from note 7 ) The comment regarding " screaming for attention -- position 4 ) , what is the longest series of
spins for a no hit on a position , on my rng it is well into the 20's so even after 13 spins I would not consider it.
It looks like I would need some big adjustments playing online or maybe switch to live Dublin Bet or similar.
Thank you for your patience with me. There is some excellent information in there. Is this from a session you played and could you show us what you bet and why and what was the results ?
Cheers.
This will take some time to explain because I never just watch only one point. I do a lot of comparisons. This allows me to sort out numbers to place bets on not just entire sectors.
Quote from: know when to quit on June 11, 2013, 07:46:42 PM
This will take some time to explain because I never just watch only one point. I do a lot of comparisons. This allows me to sort out numbers to place bets on not just entire sectors.
good tips :)
thanks
Quote from: know when to quit on June 11, 2013, 07:46:42 PM
This will take some time to explain because I never just watch only one point. I do a lot of comparisons. This allows me to sort out numbers to place bets on not just entire sectors.
Hi kwtq -- I might be wrong but I get the feeling I am asking way to many questions ( for my liking anyway at least ) , I am not a regular poster either ( like most others on here lol ) but this thread has captured my imagination and I am just trying to learn your way of playing roulette so I shall go back to being a lurker and reader in the background and be very grateful for any posts that you make in the future.
Cheers .
you're not asking too many questions the problem is I'm responding to slow. I should have time to answer them this afternoon. Thanks for your patience. I will be going to the casino again this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon and then I will have more than enough money to go to the states for 3 days.I would like to stay longer but I have too many obligations here.
KWTQ
Just came back from the casino. It is amazing how many Koreans love card games here. One person had 2 stacks of 1000.00 chips, incredible how much money people lose.
one of the bosses came over and checked out the table where I was but didn't stay around.
I knew driving to the casino what sector I was going to play and how many spins to wait to place my bets on side by side numbers. The croupier asked me what are you going to today, I told him 3000.00 out of 7 spins I lost 2 times, and cashed out with 3025.00 I gave 25 in tip and left.
here is the game from 2 days ago. I am going to place the numbers that were hit and you tell me what you would play next. I am holding the last spin back. I placed 4 units on and won, I will tell you what I did and why after a bit. I will start with the number furthest back.
27
16
18
10
0
23
3
29
28
34
KWTQ
Anyone care to comment? Or, would you just rather me explain?
im using phone cant exactly determine what my next bet be as i need to graph it... didnt memorized those sectors
Quote from: know when to quit on June 12, 2013, 06:58:54 PM
Just came back from the casino. It is amazing how many Koreans love card games here. One person had 2 stacks of 1000.00 chips, incredible how much money people lose.
one of the bosses came over and checked out the table where I was but didn't stay around.
I knew driving to the casino what sector I was going to play and how many spins to wait to place my bets on side by side numbers. The croupier asked me what are you going to today, I told him 3000.00 out of 7 spins I lost 2 times, and cashed out with 3025.00 I gave 25 in tip and left.
here is the game from 2 days ago. I am going to place the numbers that were hit and you tell me what you would play next. I am holding the last spin back. I placed 4 units on and won, I will tell you what I did and why after a bit. I will start with the number furthest back.
27
16
18
10
0
23
3
29
28
34
KWTQ
Anyone care to comment? Or, would you just rather me explain?
Single odd sequence due + single numbers under represented + favoured position 2 , so bet is sector 2 + extra chip on no. 3 for the first repeat.
Made a mistake here " single odd sequence due " this is not correct , single red and even are not present to date , so maybe you are looking at black and odd next so this indicates sectors 1 and 2 I see nothing in the positions to help me as distribution is even so will take a wild guess at your favoured position 2 and maybe the first repeat of no. 29 , so bet is sector 2 and extra chip on 29.
Still learning but I post my guess for fun too: missing position 4 -> position 4 is also mapped to sector 4 so I'll bet on sector 4.
by the way are those 00 wheel?
Yes 00 wheel
my bets for next spin.
13
15
17
19
21
23
25
28
0 & 00 ofcrse :spiteful:
Quote from: klw on June 13, 2013, 01:22:29 PM
Single odd sequence due + single numbers under represented + favoured position 2 , so bet is sector 2 + extra chip on no. 3 for the first repeat.
somewhat agree :) sector 2 is favored.
incase my sector 1 wont come ill switch to sector 2 on the next spin. :biggrin:
so whats the next number KWTQ? :scratch_ones_head: :scratch_ones_head:
All of my posts are said 'needs to be approved by a moderator' and usually hold for a day. Is that normal ?
You only need the first few approved. Otherwise loads of spam gets through
It took me 2 days to read all the posts, but i think i somewhat understand it all.
I got some questions;
1. What expostioal curves do you plot?
Odd/Even, Black/Red, High/Low, Win/Loss?
2. The Bell Curve? I that the vertical line of the sectors you made? On the left side of your papers?
3. The interval of position. I don't understand these at all. Where did you get those numbers? Please explain with more details.
Quote from: RayManZ on June 20, 2013, 07:19:35 AM
It took me 2 days to read all the posts, but I think I somewhat understand it all.
I got some questions;
1. What expostioal curves do you plot?
Odd/Even, Black/Red, High/Low, Win/Loss?
2. The Bell Curve? I that the vertical line of the sectors you made? On the left side of your papers?
3. The interval of position. I don't understand these at all. Where did you get those numbers? Please explain with more details.
Hi RayManZ -- KWTQ seems to have disappeared again , I will try my best to help.
1. I would like to know this as well, if you look at his casino paper he uses you don't see any curves listed so he must be doing the curves mentally. He is able to do this because he has been doing this for years and it comes naturally to him , in other words ,experience , something I doubt I'll ever be able to do. He must have a very sharp / quick mind to be able to process that a single odd or red is due along with all the other information he processes and then place a bet on a live wheel and remember he likes to play by himself,so the croupier is only waiting for him and nobody else.
2. Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say here , the sectors are listed on the left and everytime he gets a hit he puts the spin number alongside the appropriate sector.
3. Every time you have a hit on a sector he places a " x " alongside the LAST time that sector hit Not including the current hit.So this in effect always leaves each of the 4 sectors without an " x " alongside of it so it shows how long ago it was last hit.
So taking an example sector 2 was last hit ( so no " x " alongside of it ) on spin no. 5 , sector 3 on spin no. 7 , sector 4 on spin no. 10 and sector 1 on spin no. 12 ( the current spin ), as these were the last hits on each of those sectors they will NOT have an " x " alongside of them.
So their positions are as follows :-
sector 2 is position 1 ( position 1 is always the furthest back unhit sector )
" 3 is " 2 ( second furthest unhit sector back )
" 4 is " 3
" 1 is " 4 ( the last sector to hit )
so now we come to spin 13 , its a hit on sector 2 , so you put an " x " next to the sector 2 ( which was position 1 ) and now, they all move up 1 position.
sector 3 has moved up to first position ( it is now the furthest back unhit sector )
sector 4 has moved up to second position
sector 1 has moved up to third position and
sector 2 is now fourth position
so you always have 1 of each sector without an " x " on it and the order from furthest away to current spin dictates the position number 1,2,3 or 4.
Hope this helps .
Cheers.
Thanks for your reply.
I got the position of hits. What i meant was the thing on the right side of this excel file: nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=10230.msg150852#msg150852
It says interval of position. I don't understand where this comes from.
I also believe he makes the curves in his head. But if i know what he tracks i can track is to. If i understand everything correctly i should be able to make a program the makes the curves en graphs for me. That way i have more time to place bets and make the right call.
Quote from: RayManZ on June 20, 2013, 10:10:48 AM
Thanks for your reply.
I got the position of hits. What I meant was the thing on the right side of this excel file: nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=10230.msg150852#msg150852
It says interval of position. I don't understand where this comes from.
I also believe he makes the curves in his head. But if I know what he tracks I can track is to. If I understand everything correctly I should be able to make a program the makes the curves en graphs for me. That way I have more time to place bets and make the right call.
Interval of position is simply exactly what it says , if you look at position 1 interval on the example you showed me it appeared after 2 spins , 3 spins and 2 spins 232 he refers to , he's looking for potential repeats , maybe non appearance etc. as a factor to decide on his bet.
The program sounds like an excellent idea.
Cheers.
The issue for me in all of this is we have converted the 4 sectors into 4 positions , its just another way of recording the hits , you still have 1 of 4 choices to make . kwtq says that the curve for positions is more even , I cant personally see any more advantage in this than than the exponential curve to record the sectors , I can see advantages and disadvantages in both methods. He says positions 2 and 3 are hit more common than 1 and 4 , its definitely not the case at my online site and even if this is true ( which I believe it is by the way ) is it that big an edge as to produce 6 winning bets in 12 spin sessions that we have been shown ? There must be other factors to his bet decisions and I would love to see some more live sessions with full explanantions.So please kwtq come and show us how you do it. We are waiting patiently.
By the way kwtq , none of the above is criticism just playing devils advocate.
Cheers.
hi klw,
we can plot as many curves as we can in order to gain advantage on it. unfortunately in our case we can plot the curve base on the position. that could be the reason why there are some numbers on his bet that arent in a sector. ill illustrate it later when i get home.
Quote from: marvin on June 20, 2013, 11:55:05 AM
hi klw,
we can plot as many curves as we can in order to gain advantage on it. unfortunately in our case we can plot the curve base on the position. that could be the reason why there are some numbers on his bet that arent in a sector. ill illustrate it later when I get home.
Hi Marvin -- yes agreed on the multiple curves , all the even chances are a good place to start as well as WL curve and sector and position curves, would like to know if he uses any others.
" unfortunately in our case we can plot the curve base on the position. that could be the reason why there are some numbers on his bet that arent in a sector. ill illustrate it later when I get home. "
Sorry don't understand this bit , I'm sure its just a language thing so I'll wait for your examples later.
Cheers.
heres a my live dealer play last weekend.
as you can see I am playing the curve of positions hit and betting particularly the position that was previously hit.
at the end of spin 18(or even at spin 14), as you can see our curve is starting to get abnormal due to position 2 is sleeping too much and might wake up anytime and try to catch up with the other positions. so its either we stop or push a little bit our luck or we look for another normal curve(sectors,col/doz,EC)
Quote from: marvin on June 20, 2013, 03:57:37 PM
as you can see I am playing the curve of positions hit and betting particularly the position that was previously hit.
at the end of spin 18(or even at spin 14), as you can see our curve is starting to get abnormal due to position 2 is sleeping too much and might wake up anytime and try to catch up with the other positions. so its either we stop or push a little bit our luck or we look for another normal curve(sectors,col/doz,EC)
Hi marvin. Thank you for the posts and you have an excellent set up. I don't quite follow all of it.the green shaded numbers are your successful bets ?
Also your red lines denoting the curves, you re-evaluate your position curves every 3 or 4 spins and bet on that observation ? Could you do an example of how you evaluate your curve and decide on what to bet on ?
Cheers.
Quote from: klw on June 20, 2013, 05:33:44 PM
Hi marvin. Thank you for the posts and you have an excellent set up. I don't quite follow all of it.the green shaded numbers are your successful bets ?
Yes those are the successful bets.
Quote
Also your red lines denoting the curves, you re-evaluate your position curves every 3 or 4 spins and bet on that observation ? Could you do an example of how you evaluate your curve and decide on what to bet on ?
Cheers.
yes those are supposed to be the last two positions in the curve that hit. just use your imagination :)
I re-evaluate it ever spin.
checkout the following.
spin 7, number 20 comes out, and based on that curve I will bet on position 1, position 1 is sector 1.
spin 8, a new sector comes out, the curve still the same so I will still bet on position 1.
spin 9, hit.
spin15, based on the curve I will be betting on position 4 and position 4 is sector 3.
spin 16, sector 2 position 1 - loss ; now we have a new top two hot positions ; next bet will now be position 3 sector 3.
spin 17, hit
attached are how our curve will look like on spin 16.
remember we are only tracking one curve, KWTQ is tracking more than one.
Hi Marvin - I can see what you are doing now,well done those are excellent results and that is only using 1 curve, would be interesting to cross reference other curves. I think you are right to abandon that curve now as position 2 is distorting it too much.
The thing that saddens me more than anything is the time I have wasted analysing an online wheel, it is clear to me that this works with a live wheel. I have already closed my account.
Hello all, I'm new in this forum. I wanna ask about this system, what is our % target profit/% stop loss?
I've read a few page from last page and knew that this system has changed a little bit, so which page I must read to know the latest system? Because I still don't understand after read all post
Sorry for my bad english
I have just done a first test run of this on Dublin Bet and it works well. The problem is entering the data and working out the next bet is taking too long that I can just about get the bets on in time as long as I've had plenty of sleep , done the Haka ,drink lots of red bull and shout YEAH very loudly every couple of minutes win or lose to keep myself sharp and on the edge and I hope the wife and kids don't come in the room cos they might be a bit disturbed. :aggressive:
could you please explain more what the red area's and numbers mean? I don't get that part... On what are those numbers based?
Quote from: RayManZ on June 21, 2013, 07:55:37 AM
could you please explain more what the red area's and numbers mean? I don't get that part... On what are those numbers based?
Hi RayManZ -- the numbers at the top of the red areas 0.1 0.2 etc are simply the position numbers 1 2 3 4 , the red area denotes when it was last hit and the numbers in them are a running total of the number of appearances for each position.
For now I'm assuming you know what the position number is ?
Here is a example of 10 live spins
spin number sector marker position
1 4 4 x
2 33 2 x
3 6 2 x 2
4 34 1
5 35 2 x 2
6 25 3 x
7 7 3 x 4
8 25 3 4
9 20 4 1
10 2 2 2
This is a 0 wheel so sectors might be different. Please explain as simple as posible how to do the rest. I think its a language barriere.
Quote from: klw on June 21, 2013, 06:41:36 AM
I have just done a first test run of this on Dublin Bet and it works well. The problem is entering the data and working out the next bet is taking too long that I can just about get the bets on in time as long as I've had plenty of sleep , done the Haka ,drink lots of red bull and shout YEAH very loudly every couple of minutes win or lose to keep myself sharp and on the edge and I hope the wife and kids don't come in the room cos they might be a bit disturbed. :aggressive:
yeah same experience here for rapid roulette it only give us 35sec to bet. I was forced to play on tables as it will take some time before the dealer says "no more bet" and some times I they wait for me to finish betting
Quote from: RayManZ on June 21, 2013, 10:04:53 AM
Here is a example of 10 live spins
summary of positions
spin number sector marker position 1 2 3 4
1 4 4 x
2 33 2 x
3 6 2 x 2 0 1 0 0
4 34 1 0 1 0 0
5 35 2 x 2 0 2 0 0
6 25 3 x 0 2 0 0
7 7 3 x 4 0 2 0 1
8 25 3 4 0 2 0 2
9 20 4 1 1 2 0 2
10 2 2 2 1 3 0 2
This is a 0 wheel so sectors might be different. Please explain as simple as posible how to do the rest. I think its a language barriere.
All the numbers that I have typed above , are a summary / running total of the positions hit so far. It really is that simple.
Have a look at your position hit then move across to where I have typed the summary and see what is happening to the counts. Then from the bottom extend a red block pattern upwards until the last time that a position hit. If you have a red block around a positions running total that extends a long way up it just means that the position hasen't hit for a while.
Now have a look at Marvin's bet selections then have a look at the running totals of the positions and you can see a common theme. I dont have any more time right now.Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Quote from: RayManZ on June 20, 2013, 07:19:35 AM
It took me 2 days to read all the posts, but I think I somewhat understand it all.
I got some questions;
1. What expostioal curves do you plot?
Odd/Even, Black/Red, High/Low, Win/Loss?
for me, I am ploting the position.
although I am still looking on other curves.
Quote
2. The Bell Curve? I that the vertical line of the sectors you made? On the left side of your papers?
yes the bell curve. sectors are explained here nolinks://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=4061.msg38512#msg38512
this is also same sectors used by Mr J.
Quote
3. The interval of position. I don't understand these at all. Where did you get those numbers? Please explain with more details.
you may download KWTQs excel sheet and followthrough it as he provides comments on spin-by-spin
Hello all, I'm new in this forum. I wanna ask about this system, what is our % target profit/% stop loss?
Hello Marvin & KLW/
Thanks for the graphs and explanations - I understand this scheme more today than yesterday :)
Marvin, could you elaborate on your decision of choosing a sector to play ?
For instance, on Spin 7 when the positions were 1213 and the sum were 2,1,1,0 - why did you choose position 1? I still cannot see how to read the curve! There must be some rules or equations to identify the selected sector based on those #.
Thanks
Quote from: KapsobaDum on June 21, 2013, 08:32:10 PM
Hello all, I'm new in this forum. I wanna ask about this system, what is our % target profit/% stop loss?
Hi -- Are you talking about what Marvin is doing or the curve itself which is what the thread is about ? We are all learning about the curve , the only one that can answer that is kwtq and if you have read the thread you can take an educated guess as to those figures yourself , he doesen't normally lose and stops when he has 3000 units + win.
Quote from: litiki777 on June 22, 2013, 12:38:31 AM
Hello Marvin & KLW/
Thanks for the graphs and explanations - I understand this scheme more today than yesterday :)
Marvin, could you elaborate on your decision of choosing a sector to play ?
For instance, on Spin 7 when the positions were 1213 and the sum were 2,1,1,0 - why did you choose position 1? I still cannot see how to read the curve! There must be some rules or equations to identify the selected sector based on those #.
Thanks
Hi -- Marvin uses a system based loosely on the curve , I will leave him to answer that for you.
The curve is simply this : you are looking for unequal distribution of hits of the curve. All curves form in a certain way and most look very similar say after 10 - 15 hits. You have more hits at the top progressing to less hits as you go down and it is recognising a curves unequal distribution where the betting opportunities lie.
An example ( and this is only repeating what kwtq has already written earlier in the thread and my own observations )
Intervals hits
1.
2. 1
3. 1
4.
5. 1
6. 1
7.
8.
etc.
If you have a curve that starts life out with the following hit pattern then there is a very strong probability that you are about to get a lot of hit intervals in the 1 and 2 areas because remember each interval from the top down usually ( but not always ) has twice as many hits as the interval below , kwtq has mentioned this numerous times in his thread and my own analysis does the same. So you could be looking at now flat betting or at most a small progression for those 1 and 2 interval hits. Of course you have to do your homework , gain some experience in plotting curves and only then will they be of any use to you.
As regards rules or equations there are not any that I can see or use , it is very subjective and down to the individual's experience and the amount of homework they have done so the curve wont be for everybody. The more curves you plot ( thinking of even chances for a start ) the quicker you will see opportunities.
Quote from: KapsobaDum on June 21, 2013, 08:32:10 PM
Hello all, I'm new in this forum. I wanna ask about this system, what is our % target profit/% stop loss?
when you already learned 4-5 curves you can stop until pitboss kicks you out. but for beginners you can stick to the 20-30
but learning just one curve is kinda harder than it looks
kwl, i noticed that on an almost equal distribution or on an almost flat curve, the second farthest position is effective.
say you have a curve of 1234 position normally we will bet on position 3 instead we should bet on position 2. i got this from smartlive casino data from alabaha website dated june 21 screenshot.
so its one thing that we should probably takenote
Quote from: marvin on June 24, 2013, 07:54:00 AM
kwl, I noticed that on an almost equal distribution or on an almost flat curve, the second farthest position is effective.
say you have a curve of 1234 position normally we will bet on position 3 instead we should bet on position 2. I got this from smartlive casino data from alabaha website dated june 21 screenshot.
so its one thing that we should probably takenote
Hi Marvin - That is interesting.I noticed you did that on your examples on the previous page. I have started analysing this on live spins but data sample is small so far and for me inconclusive for any position to be dominant but I would not disagree with you. So is betting position 2 profitable flat betting or maybe with a small progression ?
Cheers.
Thank you KLW, I am still trying to digest your feedback. Could you refer back to
nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=10230.503 and use KWTQ's "A Simple game.xlsx" as reference. I would like to ask some questions about this data and hope that you or Marvin could help me further.
I understand how to generate the sectors, the X mark, the positions and the Intervals of Position but I have no idea how to use them:
1. Is position 1 corresponding to the sleepers, ..., position 4 is to the hot ?
2. At Spin 13, according to KWTQ, he selected position 4 which is corresponding to sector #3, so will he bet all numbers in Sector 3 = (12,14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 27) or just the sleepers = (12, 14, 18, 22, 24, 26, 27) ? I guess if lost, he would repeat the same bet with progression until winning or he would re-evaluate the situation and play another sector.
3. I would like to hear how you and Marvin analyze the situation at same Spin 13. What sector will you select ?
I have been applying this CURVE (first version as page 1) lately at real casinos and it DOES help my games. I cannot get 10x like KWTQ but I lose less (what a pity! :)). I could improve my game by guessing when numbers in 1 move to 1+ area but dont know any strategy to tell me that. I think Marvin's strategy or G.U.T. could do but still thinking and learning about those.
Thanks again for your help.
Quote from: litiki777 on June 22, 2013, 12:38:31 AM
Hello Marvin & KLW/
Thanks for the graphs and explanations - I understand this scheme more today than yesterday :)
Marvin, could you elaborate on your decision of choosing a sector to play ?
For instance, on Spin 7 when the positions were 1213 and the sum were 2,1,1,0 - why did you choose position 1? I still cannot see how to read the curve! There must be some rules or equations to identify the selected sector based on those #.
Thanks
hi, position 1 on spin 7 is the latest but -1 position that hit. try to visualize and form a curve on the highlighted positions.
my play is not the only way to use the curve. But as far as the rules is concern, it try to check on attached image.
we are trying to bet on positions/sectors/doz/col/EC that are near the mean score after every spin.
no wonder KWTQ is having a hard time explaining this as there are lots of way to play this concept.
kwl, try to mix in EC's Black Odd(BO), Black Even(BE), Red Odd(RO), Red Even(RE) and apply the same idea on the positions curve.
say we have the following spins.
on spin 7, you have a good looking curve for both positions and EC's.
positions curve says we bet on position 2 which is sector 4 and EC curve says we bet on BE.
now if position curve and EC curve matches we bet double on those BE on those sector.
in this example sector 4 has the following numbers
20 - 2 chips
4 - 2 chips
13 - 1 chip
24 - 2 chips
17 - 1 chip
8 - 2 chips
22 - 2 chips
28 - 2 chips
26 - 2 chips
so far on my 3 test sessions it gives me a very very positive result.
if position curve does not matches with EC curve you can choose either of the curves that you want to follow or you can bet on both you can have more coverage just the way you like :) less volatility :thumbsup:
Quote from: litiki777 on June 24, 2013, 02:22:39 PM
Thank you KLW, I am still trying to digest your feedback. Could you refer back to
nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=10230.503 and use KWTQ's "A Simple game.xlsx" as reference. I would like to ask some questions about this data and hope that you or Marvin could help me further.
I understand how to generate the sectors, the X mark, the positions and the Intervals of Position but I have no idea how to use them:
1. Is position 1 corresponding to the sleepers, ..., position 4 is to the hot ?
2. At Spin 13, according to KWTQ, he selected position 4 which is corresponding to sector #3, so will he bet all numbers in Sector 3 = (12,14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 27) or just the sleepers = (12, 14, 18, 22, 24, 26, 27) ? I guess if lost, he would repeat the same bet with progression until winning or he would re-evaluate the situation and play another sector.
3. I would like to hear how you and Marvin analyze the situation at same Spin 13. What sector will you select ?
I have been applying this CURVE (first version as page 1) lately at real casinos and it DOES help my games. I cannot get 10x like KWTQ but I lose less (what a pity! :)). I could improve my game by guessing when numbers in 1 move to 1+ area but dont know any strategy to tell me that. I think Marvin's strategy or G.U.T. could do but still thinking and learning about those.
Thanks again for your help.
Hi litiki777 -- I was away most of yesterday so playing catch up.
1. No it is more complex than that.You have to do your own analysis of the wheel that you play on , this is crucial as rng and live are different. So far Marvin's analysis favours position 3 but you will have losing sessions betting just position 3 , position is just the starting point as a base for your bet selection.
2. I think he would normally bet all the numbers in a sector but he would have to confirm this. He also adds extra chips for betting situations that he likes, this is what he posted #506
" This will take some time to explain because I never just watch only one point. I do a lot of comparisons. This allows me to sort out numbers to place bets on not just entire sectors. "
Again the repeating and progression and re-evaluating is only something he can answer , whenever I ask questions to go into further detail he seems to skip over them and not answer most of the time. This has happened quite a few times through out the thread. That is his choice of course he has his reasons , it could just be lack of time or some other reason and is 1 of the reasons why this thread has run for 4 years now, it gets frustrating and all you can do is your own homework until he comes back to us but I wait patiently because I think he has something that I want to learn.
3. I still don't have a solid strategy yet so my own analysis would not be of any use. Marvin seems to be further down the analysis path of those who post at least.
Good to hear it's helping your game. kwtq has 17 years experience of this game , I hope I don't have to wait another 16 years to get to where he is lol.
Quote from: marvin on June 25, 2013, 03:40:14 AM
kwl, try to mix in EC's Black Odd(BO), Black Even(BE), Red Odd(RO), Red Even(RE) and apply the same idea on the positions curve.
say we have the following spins.
on spin 7, you have a good looking curve for both positions and EC's.
positions curve says we bet on position 2 which is sector 4 and EC curve says we bet on BE.
now if position curve and EC curve matches we bet double on those BE on those sector.
in this example sector 4 has the following numbers
20 - 2 chips
4 - 2 chips
13 - 1 chip
24 - 2 chips
17 - 1 chip
8 - 2 chips
22 - 2 chips
28 - 2 chips
26 - 2 chips
so far on my 3 test sessions it gives me a very very positive result.
if position curve does not matches with EC curve you can choose either of the curves that you want to follow or you can bet on both you can have more coverage just the way you like :) less volatility :thumbsup:
Hi Marvin -- Thank you so much for that,it looks really interesting I will take a look in more detail. I wish I had your time for analysis.
Regarding the bell curve , I can see you are measuring standard deviation but of what ? Is it s/d of positions and can you give an example of how you would use that information ?
Cheers.
@KLW: I cannot wait for 16 years to understand this curve. I will be 80 then and dont know if I will still be able to control my trembling fingers to touch the right numbers on the screen.
@Marvin: your explanation is too high for me. Any reference that you can suggest to read ? I know that this strategy is hard to understand because if it is not, Roulette will be abandoned in all Casinos already :) -- You seem to understand this strategy very well. Would you like to open a new thread and show us what you discover in Roulette ? Let me study your reply tonight.
Quote from: klw on June 25, 2013, 05:38:05 AM
Hi Marvin -- Thank you so much for that,it looks really interesting I will take a look in more detail. I wish I had your time for analysis.
Regarding the bell curve , I can see you are measuring standard deviation but of what ? Is it s/d of positions and can you give an example of how you would use that information ?
Cheers.
Hi klw, yes its the s/d of the positions that recently hit, more like we will follow the last 2 positions that hit. and ofcrse we cannot always follow the last 2 its not as simple as that, thats why i mentioned before that if you have the following positions 1234, instead of betting 3 & 4 positions, its better to bet on 234. that would be less volatility for you. but for me as ive mentioned before i will bet on 2.
as we all know, it is better to bet on hot numbers rather than on cold numbers.
PS.
the total number of each position won't matter. hmmm would it might be what KWTQ is referring about intervals? idont know :scratch_ones_head: :scratch_ones_head::scratch_ones_head:
Quote from: litiki777 on June 25, 2013, 08:38:11 AM
@KLW: I cannot wait for 16 years to understand this curve. I will be 80 then and dont know if I will still be able to control my trembling fingers to touch the right numbers on the screen.
@Marvin: your explanation is too high for me. Any reference that you can suggest to read ? I know that this strategy is hard to understand because if it is not, Roulette will be abandoned in all Casinos already :) -- You seem to understand this strategy very well. Would you like to open a new thread and show us what you discover in Roulette ? Let me study your reply tonight.
Not really, as I only know one curve(not even an expert), and still have to stand up and walk away when I can see that the curve is getting weird.
although I have to admit that ive already made 2K on 2 sat**days using this concept on a 150BR.
which is just enough to cover my losses on sic bo and craps :lol:
Quote from: marvin on June 25, 2013, 02:38:15 PM
Hi klw, yes its the s/d of the positions that recently hit, more like we will follow the last 2 positions that hit. and ofcrse we cannot always follow the last 2 its not as simple as that, thats why I mentioned before that if you have the following positions 1234, instead of betting 3 & 4 positions, its better to bet on 234. that would be less volatility for you. but for me as ive mentioned before I will bet on 2.
as we all know, it is better to bet on hot numbers rather than on cold numbers.
PS.
the total number of each position won't matter. hmmm would it might be what KWTQ is referring about intervals? idont know :scratch_ones_head: :scratch_ones_head::scratch_ones_head:
Hi Marvin -- Thanks for the reply. This is probably me just trying to make sure I understand you 100 % but where you say :-
" but for me as ive mentioned before I will bet on 2. "
Are you saying that you bet on 2 positions now because your previous examples showed that you were only betting on position 3 or are you saying that you bet on position 2 now ?
Also I have been analysing the suggestion you made about what you call the even chances and from my small data sample to date it has not improved results.Maybe just 1 of those things so I will carry on for now.
Well done on the casino wins by the way.
Cheers.
Quote from: marvin on June 25, 2013, 02:43:18 PM
Not really, as I only know one curve(not even an expert), and still have to stand up and walk away when I can see that the curve is getting weird.
although I have to admit that ive already made 2K on 2 sat**days using this concept on a 150BR.
which is just enough to cover my losses on sic bo and craps :lol:
@Marvin : Thank you for the reply. May I know how much your starting chips? What is the profit percentage?
Quote from: klw on June 26, 2013, 04:59:05 AM
Hi Marvin -- Thanks for the reply. This is probably me just trying to make sure I understand you 100 % but where you say :-
" but for me as ive mentioned before I will bet on 2. "
Are you saying that you bet on 2 positions now because your previous examples showed that you were only betting on position 3 or are you saying that you bet on position 2 now ?
Also I have been analysing the suggestion you made about what you call the even chances and from my small data sample to date it has not improved results.Maybe just 1 of those things so I will carry on for now.
Well done on the casino wins by the way.
Cheers.
yeah it could be or it could be not I got 1 session here that didnt really improve.
as for changing of position, it not exactly that I only bet on 2. I bet on either 2 or 3 depends on thecurve.
say we have the following curves:
1234 - I will bet on 2
12334 - I will bet on 3
12234 - I will bet on 2
12344 - I will bet on 3
Quote from: marvin on June 26, 2013, 08:01:51 AM
yeah it could be or it could be now I got 1 session here that didnt really improve.
as for changing of position, it not exactly that I only bet on 2. I bet on either 2 or 3 depends on thecurve.
say we have the following curves:
1234 - I will bet on 2
12334 - I will bet on 3
12234 - I will bet on 2
12344 - I will bet on 3
Hi Marvin - Thanks for that. I can see what you are doing.I will do some analysis myself to see if I can find anything that will help with profitability.
Cheers.
Marvin, regarding your post #530 (nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=10230.530), I guess you are choosing the sector to play by using the last position ? For example, on spin 15, the position is 3 and at spin 14, the position is 4. If not, please explain how to. I am still stuck at how to interpret the curve. Thanks! May the CURVE be with you !!!!
Quote from: litiki777 on July 03, 2013, 09:16:52 AM
Marvin, regarding your post #530 (nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=10230.530), I guess you are choosing the sector to play by using the last position ? For example, on spin 15, the position is 3 and at spin 14, the position is 4. If not, please explain how to. I am still stuck at how to interpret the curve. Thanks! May the CURVE be with you !!!!
hi litiki,
ive made some adjustment lately.
looking back at that curve in reply #528, in the post that you are referring to, i was betting on position 4.
spin 13 is position 1
spin 14 is position 4
spin 15 is position 3
now based on what ive said in reply #557 i should have bet on position 1 (and also based on the running totals, position 1 is a hot position) and should have won.
I'm playing on an American Roulette (0/00).
Can someone please layout the sectors for me. Meaning mapping the sectors to the group of numbers on the above roulette.
Thank you,
John
Hi Marvin,
I sent you 2 private messages.
Thanks,
John
Quote from: marvin on July 03, 2013, 02:07:33 PM
hi litiki,
ive made some adjustment lately.
looking back at that curve in reply #528, in the post that you are referring to, I was betting on position 4.
spin 13 is position 1
spin 14 is position 4
spin 15 is position 3
now based on what ive said in reply #557 I should have bet on position 1 (and also based on the running totals, position 1 is a hot position) and should have won.
Thanks Marvin/
1. I could see pos=1 is a hot position (sum=5) but dont see what factors you use to select it. Why not '2' which is a sleeper for a long time?
2. Second question regarding your first crossing point charts (reply#354). I am trying to derive an equation for the crossing point. I would like to confirm with you to make sure that my calculation is correct. Based on the information on your 3 graphs, I find that X=0.90 for the first graph, X=1.39 for the second graph and X=1.76 on the third. If they are correct than we can say when X < 1.5, bet on numbers which have 0s hit and when X>1.5, bet on numbers has 1 hit.
This thread is becoming quite big and it's obvious that some people can't be bothered or simply don't have the time to read the thread from the beginning,so I thought I would try to help narrow it down a little.
You need to read the early part of the thread especially where he describes how to note down a curve , what to look for and how to play it. kwtq has adapted his style of playing over the years so some of what he wrote early in the thread I believe he doesen't use now but some he does.
To learn his latest way of playing you only need to start at the top of page 26 where he re-appears after yet another long absence.
Best results of course should come by reading the whole thread.
@jrhelp007 the sector information for 0/00 wheels is on page 28 post 416 and for 0 wheels on page 31 post 454.
Why do my posts need to be approved by a moderator ?
Quote from: jrhelp007 on July 03, 2013, 07:53:31 PM
I'm playing on an American Roulette (0/00).
Can someone please layout the sectors for me. Meaning mapping the sectors to the group of numbers on the above roulette.
Thank you,
John
Hi John,
kindly follow the url that i provided in Reply #539 in creating the sectors.
Quote from: litiki777 on July 04, 2013, 08:01:01 AM
Thanks Marvin/
1. I could see pos=1 is a hot position (sum=5) but dont see what factors you use to select it. Why not '2' which is a sleeper for a long time?
generally in roulette, don't bet on sleepers as you wont know how long they can actually sleep.
Quote
2. Second question regarding your first crossing point charts (reply#354). I am trying to derive an equation for the crossing point. I would like to confirm with you to make sure that my calculation is correct. Based on the information on your 3 graphs, I find that X=0.90 for the first graph, X=1.39 for the second graph and X=1.76 on the third. If they are correct than we can say when X < 1.5, bet on numbers which have 0s hit and when X>1.5, bet on numbers has 1 hit.
yes
Thanks KLW and Marvin for your replies.
In terms of not betting in general on sleepers because you don't know how long it will be in that mode , it's true. I have seen 42 spins going on before a sleeper number returned.
In term of this system/approach since you're are betting on selective sector(s) some of its numbers may be part of the sleepers.
Any comments?
John
Is anyone reading this post and know Excel spreadsheets can code a spreadsheet for both the American and the European roulette's?
Basically what we will need to do is to enter the first 9 to 12 numbers of the roulette numbers. Thereafter the logic code in Excel will follow the approach on this post. Basically will tell us which sector to bet?
Thank you,
John
Quote from: jrhelp007 on July 04, 2013, 09:40:05 PM
Is anyone reading this post and know Excel spreadsheets can code a spreadsheet for both the American and the European roulette's?
Basically what we will need to do is to enter the first 9 to 12 numbers of the roulette numbers. Thereafter the logic code in Excel will follow the approach on this post. Basically will tell us which sector to bet?
Thank you,
John
Is there a formula or equation to tell which sector to bet based on the positions ? So far I could see only Marvin's partial scheme but cannot understand KWTQ's. BTW what happens to KWTQ? I believe he is in States now. Is he too busy wiping out Las Vegas's roulettes?
hey just a disclaimer, i am only tracking one curve and kwtq is tracking multiple curve. i stop or wait when sd of the position is less than one or i dont like the curve. the solution is to track multiple curve
Quote from: litiki777 on July 04, 2013, 10:05:03 PM
Is there a formula or equation to tell which sector to bet based on the positions ? So far I could see only Marvin's partial scheme but cannot understand KWTQ's. BTW what happens to KWTQ? I believe he is in States now. Is he too busy wiping out Las Vegas's roulettes?
Hi litiki777 - Only analysis will tell you what position to bet on and I am still doing mine. As Marvin said kwtq uses other curves to make decisions, he does things like look at when a single red is due or when the first repeat is due and then looks at what position / sector best covers his intended bet, so a position is sometimes used as a base for his bet selection and sometimes as the confirmation for his bet selection. In working out positions for the sectors we only have a partial picture of what kwtq does , we really need him back to explain fully what he does. In the meantime we have a good base to work from in using the positions and there are betting opportunities there if you look , but as is always the case in roulette a simple set of rules rarely means all sessions are winners and to be able to bet and win like kwtq we need him back on here to give us the complete picture.
Cheers.
Quote from: marvin on July 05, 2013, 04:24:02 AM
hey just a disclaimer, I am only tracking one curve and kwtq is tracking multiple curve. I stop or wait when sd of the position is less than one or I dont like the curve. the solution is to track multiple curve
I am like a baby just born :) I need to understand how to use ONE curve first - Now I stuck at the last step: how to analyze the data to select a 1 of the 4 positions. How do you calculate SD to make this decision ?
Quote from: litiki777 on July 05, 2013, 06:05:07 AM
I am like a baby just born :) I need to understand how to use ONE curve first - Now I stuck at the last step: how to analyze the data to select a 1 of the 4 positions. How do you calculate SD to make this decision ?
generally you just look at the totals of each positions after each spin and you already have an idea on what is the sd of position after each spin
Is anyone reading this post and knows Excel spreadsheets can code a spreadsheet for both the American and the European roulette's?
Basically what we will need to do is to enter the first 9 to 12 numbers of the roulette numbers. Thereafter the logic code in Excel will follow the approach on this post. Basically will tell us which sector to bet?
Thank you,
John
Quote from: marvin on July 05, 2013, 07:46:13 AM
generally you just look at the totals of each positions after each spin and you already have an idea on what is the sd of position after each spin
I see!! Thank you, professor Marvin ! I dont quite understand how SD can be used here but I kind of understand the curves's theory! My next question is why do we need to use the position as an extra layer of the sectors ? Why dont we use sector# directly as a curve ?
BTW viewing thru your worksheets in Reply#549, you are tracking multiple curves there (with BO, BE, RO, RE). Very interesting!
Quote from: litiki777 on July 06, 2013, 11:19:30 AM
I see!! Thank you, professor Marvin ! I dont quite understand how SD can be used here but I kind of understand the curves's theory! My next question is why do we need to use the position as an extra layer of the sectors ? Why dont we use sector# directly as a curve ?
BTW viewing thru your worksheets in Reply#549, you are tracking multiple curves there (with BO, BE, RO, RE). Very interesting!
tracking via position is just another way of tracking when a particular sector hit
my tracking for BO RE BE RO is still a work in progresss i havent played with them live. as previously mentioned i am still using one curve
To the experienced Rouletters (I do not want to call Roulette Gurus because some of you may run away >:D), I am just a new born in this game and I need a lot of advises from you.
Lately I have read a few Methods, Strategies, Systems.. from this vlsroulette.com and there are some very interesting techniques out there.
I am looking for some systems that can assist me to confirm the next sector to bet in this Curve. 2 systems that I think may help are: Kimo Li and Grandpaaa.
I would like to hear from the experts what yu thinbk about these systems and what other systems you are using side by side with this Curve system or just Curve with multi curves ?
Many thanks!
it would be much better if we can track multiple curve. just now i was sitting for 6hrs(ofcrse with some break in between) yet i still lose 500sgd :( simply becase the SD of the position is below 1-1.5 . this is where the other curve should have come in.
With all respect to time and effort investing in your posts and practice. Betting based on SD and/or a single curve will not work.
Going back to the days where "know when to quit" discussed his method/approach in a chat room, he was losing money until such time that he started to drew and practice multiple curves. This is what he is basically doing betting based on multiple curves and you need a large bankroll to survive.
In terms of SD. SD It's not working with roulette. I uploaded to the download files section for members only a PDF called:
Wheel Frequency Analysis by John Solitude. Read page 20 through 21.
Thanks,
John
Quote from: marvin on July 07, 2013, 03:58:43 PM
it would be much better if we can track multiple curve. just now I was sitting for 6hrs(ofcrse with some break in between) yet I still lose 500sgd :( simply becase the SD of the position is below 1-1.5 . this is where the other curve should have come in.
I keep saying time and time again, I can not see where the advantage lies in using position as a base for kwtq's bet. Yes converting sectors to positions makes distribution very slightly smoother than using the sector data direct but for me the difference is marginal. You still get a position sleeping for 20 + spins , they don't streak any different to sectors,slightly less if anything so where is the advantage ? I've spent ages analyising this. My data shows position 4 hits less , but you still have sessions where 4 is dominant and betting against 4 will give you huge drawdown and swings , kwtq says position 3 hits more than the others , I can't confirm this with my data and even if it was, again it would be marginal , maybe the 3/4 factor is individual to his table and thats why it works for him, I don't know or maybe I just haven't seen where the advantage is , maybe I'm just stupid !!!
@Marvin , I'm not sure that you are using the curve as it is used by kwtq in his examples , the curve looks for betting opportunities when there is imbalance in distribution and uses the law of probabilities ( whatever that is ) to highlight a bet , you are betting after every spin. Sometimes if distribution is in balance over a session of say 40 spins then you wont get a clear bet , other times a bet can be high lighted after a few spins but I have never seen a curve yet that throws up a bet after every spin.Take a look at post 543 that is how I think a curve should be played out. It is a more methodical approach and maybe kwtq's experience would be able to recognise a bet much quicker as the distribution falls , only he can confirm / deny this . I say this because I want to save you and others hard earned money.Playing the curve this way is betting on what is " due " to come out and bets will be fewer but this is what he showed us in his original example a few years ago and recently with his " pattern breaking " position bets . Maybe you are right to go with what's " hot " who knows , this is the never ending question with roulette but then it is not using the curve as kwtq explained it originally.
The other thing is this, kwtq has 17 years experience of roulette he sees things that lesser experienced players like me don't so I'm not sure I will ever " get it " and I know one thing for sure unless he comes back on here I probably never will.
Cheers.
Quote from: jrhelp007 on July 07, 2013, 10:49:25 PM
With all respect to time and effort investing in your posts and practice. Betting based on SD and/or a single curve will not work.
agree
" With all respect to time and effort investing in your posts and practice. Betting based on SD and/or a single curve will not work."
I haven't gone into SD in enough detail to know if it works or not but disagree that 1 curve will not work , if you use the curve correctly it will probably eliminate certain events from happening and highlight events that will probably happen , this has to be a huge advantage over the expectation that all events will probably happen.
Cheers.
sorry not very good at this posting lark.
Hello KLW/ In the first version, when KWTQ used 0's hit, 1's hit... I thought I got how the curve works but then he changed to 4 sectors and positions and I lost track. How do you curve the positions or the sectors ? Do I have to curve each the positions's occurrences as:
Position 1:
1 interval = #
2 interval = #
...
Position 2:
1 interval = #
2 interval = #
...
and evaluate the result ?
Lets assume that the positions are irrelevant, how do you suggest to use curve with the sectors ? I need to know one curve first. Thank you!
Quote from: litiki777 on July 08, 2013, 08:29:33 AM
Hello KLW/ In the first version, when KWTQ used 0's hit, 1's hit... I thought I got how the curve works but then he changed to 4 sectors and positions and I lost track. How do you curve the positions or the sectors ? Do I have to curve each the positions's occurrences as:
Position 1:
1 interval = #
2 interval = #
...
Position 2:
1 interval = #
2 interval = #
...
and evaluate the result ?
Lets assume that the positions are irrelevant, how do you suggest to use curve with the sectors ? I need to know one curve first. Thank you!
Hi Litiki777 -- The curve is just a way of recording events, so if for example you think that recording the intervals between hits of sector appearences helps you making an informed betting decision then you should do that , and also make a curve of anything else that you think will assist you in doing the same.
The way they should be written down is as kwtq's original example and mine in post 543 , so if most of the events that you are recording happen between 1 and 15 ( lets say position intervals ) then you write 1 2 3 4 etc up to 15 down the left hand side and each time you have a " hit " you mark down a " 1 " alongside of the appropriate interval, after 10/15/20 spins or so you will see why it is called a curve.
That is how it was explained and how I have been doing it for months , you will soon see where has been filled in on the curve and where is still to be filled in on the curve . There are different ways of using the curve's information to highlight a bet but it normally takes a few spins so that the curve can develop to see where these bets are, what I don't get is how kwtq managed to get 6 bets in 9 spins ( I think ) from 1 of the sessions he showed us as the curve needs longer than that to develop and show us its bets ( if there are any ) , he maybe uses his curves in a different way to what he has shown us and if that is the case we need him to explain that.Then maybe again it comes down to that experience factor that most of us don't have.
I personally would curve the sectors and positions by interval as they can both highlight a betting opportunity, I also like to curve the position and sector repeats by intervals.
I dont know if positions are irrelevant , I just cant see any useable advantage over sectors, maybe others can.
I'm not sure why kwtq has used sectors or positions as a base for his bets, are they any more predictable than any other 9 numbers or dozens or columns etc , maybe he has gone up to a 9 number base to cut his variance down , if that is the case then why not take that further to the evens chances where variance would be even less,that is where I am currently starting out by recording curves on all these to see if betting opportunities are any clearer / more often . So for now I am putting less importance on trying to figure kwtq's system out until he comes back , if he ever does.
Cheers.
jrhelp007/ Thank you for the e-book. I downloaded already and will study it.
KLW/ Thank you. After many days of reading and thinking, now I understand what a 'curve' means (still don't see the need of 'positions' though) - How slow I am!
Marvin/ I think SD will help to estimate when a sector should repeat. I will learn more about this and ask you help. Are you still using your crosspoint technique with the Curve ?
---
I always play on air ball machines and the time allowed between two spins is only 60secs. I dont think my brain can process multi curves at once. KWTQ must have a brain of a math wizard. I need an android app to help me with updating the data. Does an app like that exist ? Is it allowed to use in casinos?
Quote from: litiki777 on July 10, 2013, 05:49:47 AM
Marvin/ I think SD will help to estimate when a sector should repeat. I will learn more about this and ask you help. Are you still using your crosspoint technique with the Curve ?
---
I always play on air ball machines and the time allowed between two spins is only 60secs. I dont think my brain can process multi curves at once. KWTQ must have a brain of a math wizard. I need an android app to help me with updating the data. Does an app like that exist ? Is it allowed to use in casinos?
nope im not using it lately, im still in the process of incorporating it with the position though.
sd for a repeat? hmmm looks interesting... because right now i am looking at it as no bet.
i used to play at alfastreet too it only give me 35sec to bet not enough time to analyze and bet until i transfer to a table/dealer roulette.
Quote from: litiki777 on July 10, 2013, 05:49:47 AM
KLW/ Thank you. After many days of reading and thinking, now I understand what a 'curve' means (still don't see the need of 'positions' though) - How slow I am!
Hi litiki777 -- You are not slow at all , you come across as someone motivated and sharp. Looks like we will have to wait kwtq's return to show us how to use positions.
SD may be a good tool for finding sector repeats , that and a curve might go a long way to help.
In 1 of his explanations kwtq had worked out that a " single red " was due to hit and picked the position that held more reds as his next bet. This was a good pointer for me so I am analysing single , double , treble hits etc on all the evens chances , there may also be an advantage in analysing all the BOL , REH categories as well that could assist us , the only thing is it's all a lot of work and I feel I am slowly losing the will to live lol. It would be much easier if he came on and explained everything to us then we could concentrate on what really matters, sigh !
Cheers.
kwl, expect the worst, one year before he came back hehehe
Did he leave Guatemala or something happened to him? Hope not ! Quite a cool guy!
Quote from: marvin on July 10, 2013, 01:36:17 PM
kwl, expect the worst, one year before he came back hehehe
Lol Maybe the Guatemalan bandits have him and have told him he will be released after he reveals his system to them. I hope they are very, very patient ! Lol
Quote from: jrhelp007 on July 05, 2013, 01:19:07 PM
Is anyone reading this post and knows Excel spreadsheets can code a spreadsheet for both the American and the European roulette's?
Basically what we will need to do is to enter the first 9 to 12 numbers of the roulette numbers. Thereafter the logic code in Excel will follow the approach on this post. Basically will tell us which sector to bet?
Thank you,
John
I know that Excel macro can do that but pretty hard. I think someone with PHP or Javascript knowledge can do that easier.
1. Reference for Excel macro: nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=6814.0 for a 'predmatrix' layout
2. Reference for Javascript: nolinks://nolinks.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=4984.0 for GUT method <-- pretty cool
Hi, Can someone please answer a few questions,
tell me if a casino will ban me if i won say £200 a day,
and what are the best casinos that will payout and what casinos should i avoid, i am looking for a list of 10 good online casinos that are trustworthy.
Regards,
teddy
Hi everyone
Newbie here
sorry for my bad english as well..Made IN Israel
I suggest you try to apply the curve that has spoken on this thread , On grandpaaa way (there was a long thread over here)
For me.. they work great together..Just switch the curve to 1\4 chance ' instead of even..etc
Good Luck
:)
I have been reading this Curve system. Just one question that I hope someone can explain:
The curve seems to base on the assumption that the # of single hits would be 2x the # of double hits, the # of double hits would be 2x the number of thrice hits...
Is there any doc to confirm this rule ?
Quote from: litiki777 on September 05, 2013, 10:25:44 PM
I have been reading this Curve system. Just one question that I hope someone can explain:
The curve seems to base on the assumption that the # of single hits would be 2x the # of double hits, the # of double hits would be 2x the number of thrice hits...
Is there any doc to confirm this rule ?
What do you mean by " is there a doc to confirm this "An experienced roulette player of 17 years gives you free information and you want to question it , besides you can do a rough check in 30 minutes max yourself just get a few hundred live spins and count the hits of 1's , 2's etc and you will see.
KLW/ Sorry for not writing clearly. 'Doc' means 'Document'.
I have been studying this method for a while and still dont understand how to analyze the data correctly. I thought someone could hint me how to get more readings but if this is KWTQ's own experience than there will be no other document or reference around.
I usually play for 40-50 spins per game so the data comes out quite different. I can see that 1s are more than 2s, 2s are more than 3s most of the times but not always.
An example of my 45 spin game on an airball machine is attached. BR means Black/Red curve, LH means Low/High curve, EU is the European sectors(Voisins=Up, Series 5/8=Down, Orphelins=X), T9 is the 9-number group as table layout, W9 is the 9 number group as layout on European wheel ...
Pick the BR or LH curves for example, could someone show how to analyze these data ? Thanks in advance!!
Quote from: litiki777 on September 09, 2013, 05:46:38 AM
KLW/ Sorry for not writing clearly. 'Doc' means 'Document'.
I have been studying this method for a while and still dont understand how to analyze the data correctly. I thought someone could hint me how to get more readings but if this is KWTQ's own experience than there will be no other document or reference around.
I usually play for 40-50 spins per game so the data comes out quite different. I can see that 1s are more than 2s, 2s are more than 3s most of the times but not always.
An example of my 45 spin game on an airball machine is attached. BR means Black/Red curve, LH means Low/High curve, EU is the European sectors(Voisins=Up, Series 5/8=Down, Orphelins=X), T9 is the 9-number group as table layout, W9 is the 9 number group as layout on European wheel ...
Pick the BR or LH curves for example, could someone show how to analyze these data ? Thanks in advance!!
Hi litiki777
No need for apologies it was my fault.
Some good work here and I can see you have at least worked out how to note down the curves. You will notice that from your examples you don't have 1 perfect example of a classic curve , this would be a classic curve.
Series Hits
1 8
2 4
3 2
4 1
5 0
6 0
7 0
Each series down has half of the series above right.
What kwtq does I believe is look for an imbalance of distribution of the curve as it develops , so for example lets take your reds from your last post , lets say the the first 5 series / attacks looks like this. You record as you go along right.
Series Hits
1 0
2 2
3 1
4 2
5 0
6 0
7 0
So now you would know historically from recording hundreds of curves that the 1 series is BADLY under represented , do you follow ? So I would be looking to capture single reds ( so when a red appears we bet on black next spin ) until a reasonable expected balance occurs in the curve. That is how I use it. kwtq is a bit more aggressive than me from reading between the lines ( he never reveals everything ). Sometimes recording a curve will not throw up any bets at all and that is just the frustrating part of roulette distribution other times it is a great pointer.
Recording many curves at once will throw up more quality bets imho.
So to sum up , we are betting as the curve develops and opportunities arise , looking at the curve at the end of your spin sessions does nothing but tell you how it should turn out, as it is developing is where we want to looking at.
You are right to have a target number of spins per session as this gives you a consistent picture of how the curve should look like.
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Another example litiki777 of using the curve is when you have early domination of 1 hits and you target the 2 - 7 hits , in a 50 spin session you know that you will have multiple hits in these areas so you bet for a continuation.There are many ways to use the information from a developing curve.
Cheers.
I got the idea, thank you, KLW/ I will have to practice analyzing these curves quick in <1 minute. Not easy though. Hope that KWTQ comes back soon to shed some more light on it.
I just heard about this site which provides daily history of winning hits at their live tables (true or not I do not know): nolinks://nolinks.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/index.php?id=19&L=1
So I downloaded several days to test my app and here is the 240 hits on day 9-11 on table TB AS1:
--
33 26 10 9 34 20 21 22 1 8 23 19 17 26 19 33 8 29 8 4
28 16 36 18 4 18 18 33 17 18 25 3 32 2 19 28 2 29 5 34
0 1 8 16 33 32 9 10 32 34 28 31 19 6 5 1 34 8 20 14
31 20 2 33 3 33 2 10 34 25 20 2 32 1 9 18 24 0 29 9
1 8 0 17 3 34 25 24 10 29 17 2 33 7 18 32 30 32 4 15
12 26 22 22 17 5 22 3 19 15 9 11 19 16 5 16 3 10 1 5
22 21 11 21 25 3 1 35 7 24 18 28 2 26 24 1 4 18 8 6
34 5 12 2 32 3 29 20 7 20 30 18 20 16 17 5 11 36 1 29
33 24 22 5 29 20 26 5 17 11 21 27 14 34 15 18 19 13 31 16
33 27 16 24 30 0 4 3 15 15 7 12 9 0 1 15 16 23 34 15
14 3 4 23 18 32 18 14 34 3 27 25 26 18 1 20 11 19 5
9 5 10 1 33 4 18 17 21 33 1 15 22 8 2 36 11 6 16 29
--
So I plugged these # in my program and calculated the curves using the last 40 hits and again with the whole 240 hits. The two testcases are attached. I think the rule of 1s=2x2s, 2s=2x3s... hold for simple Black/Red, Low/High curves only OR I did something wrong!
Quote from: litiki777 on September 12, 2013, 11:07:25 PM
I just heard about this site which provides daily history of winning hits at their live tables (true or not I do not know): nolinks://nolinks.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/index.php?id=19&L=1
So I downloaded several days to test my app and here is the 240 hits on day 9-11 on table TB AS1:
--
33 26 10 9 34 20 21 22 1 8 23 19 17 26 19 33 8 29 8 4
28 16 36 18 4 18 18 33 17 18 25 3 32 2 19 28 2 29 5 34
0 1 8 16 33 32 9 10 32 34 28 31 19 6 5 1 34 8 20 14
31 20 2 33 3 33 2 10 34 25 20 2 32 1 9 18 24 0 29 9
1 8 0 17 3 34 25 24 10 29 17 2 33 7 18 32 30 32 4 15
12 26 22 22 17 5 22 3 19 15 9 11 19 16 5 16 3 10 1 5
22 21 11 21 25 3 1 35 7 24 18 28 2 26 24 1 4 18 8 6
34 5 12 2 32 3 29 20 7 20 30 18 20 16 17 5 11 36 1 29
33 24 22 5 29 20 26 5 17 11 21 27 14 34 15 18 19 13 31 16
33 27 16 24 30 0 4 3 15 15 7 12 9 0 1 15 16 23 34 15
14 3 4 23 18 32 18 14 34 3 27 25 26 18 1 20 11 19 5
9 5 10 1 33 4 18 17 21 33 1 15 22 8 2 36 11 6 16 29
--
So I plugged these # in my program and calculated the curves using the last 40 hits and again with the whole 240 hits. The two testcases are attached. I think the rule of 1s=2x2s, 2s=2x3s... hold for simple Black/Red, Low/High curves only OR I did something wrong!
Hi litiki777 --- Not sure what you mean by asking if you have done anything wrong ?
I can confirm that my analysis also shows those same ratios for the even chances.
A curve is simply a representation of data accumulated. The recognition of a curve not following an even representation is key to ( hopefully ) successful bets. Not all curves look the same. I am not at my desk now but from memory a curve of orphelins repeats after a prior hit is heaviest at ( spin ) no.3. Not no.1 as with the even chances.So whatever data you are recording recognising its normal appearance ( with lots of practice ) is essential so that you can recognise when it is out of normal so you can bet.
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Quote from: know when to quit on November 17, 2010, 04:05:39 PM
Hello,
Small pause in writing, Sorry for the delay.
I will start out slow. Remember that this and the following examples are based on the exponential curve. Before the example let me show in simple terms why there is a curve. The wheel has no memory, no inherent ability in the physical or spiritual world it is just a piece of material that has the ability to move. Let's say you are looking at red and black, 4 spins.
BBBB
BBBR
BBRR
BBRB
BRBR
BRBB
BRRB
BRRR
RRRB
RRRR
RRBB
RRBR
RBBB
RBBR
RBRB
RBRR
The curve is taken from the factorial of 4 which is 4x3x2x1= 24 different possible combinations but we are after permutations so we remove the repeats and end up with 16 different permutations. Now lets chart/graph the runs of Black first. 4,3,2,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 as you can see you have
1's = 7
2's = 3
3's = 1
4's = 1
I will write more later.
Good Luck
JJH
Hi khtq
I dont understand how do you get 4,3,2,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1...can you or somebody explain to me in a simple way but detail... anyhow i can download even a single thing here for the xls. Thanks in advance...
I cant download all the attached files here...pls help
i was asked to express my opinion about this method. It's negative. you can't rely on progression to win. And you can't rely on cold sectors. Sorry.
Quote from: iggiv on December 18, 2013, 02:19:03 PM
I was asked to express my opinion about this method. It's negative. you can't rely on progression to win. And you can't rely on cold sectors. Sorry.
Hi iggiv --- I'm not sure which method you comment on. This thread is over 4 years old and kwtq seems to constantly evolve his system , I don't think he has fully revealed a system on this thread for a long time, his betting seems to revolve around what he calls the curve, he gets so far in describing his latest system then disappears sometimes for a year just as it gets interesting lol. Really frustrating. His more recent stuff does not involve betting on cold sectors from what I remember. The thing is he has a lot of experience and he's the type of poster we need on here ( when he's around ) maybe we'll see him back one day.
Cheers.
know when to quit seems to have done just that = QUIT ? My check shows his last post at #515 June 13 2013. Around 6 months ago.
kwtq s betting MO came under scrutiny by some forum members including birdhands & myself around May 2013.
birdhands questioned why kwtq couldn't find the time to play on a system/method that consistantly won ?
He was supposedly down in Guatemala doing charity work ? Him constantly winning at the local casino had him fearing his personal safety, kwtq said so.
I questioned why he was playing for relative peanuts when he could play at a 1st World casino & earn 8 - 12 times more than down in that poorer country.
(the variance relates to what country he would play & the exchange rates). In turn he could help 800% more people down there that way ?
Over all it just doesn't add up ?
As to TRUE BELIEVER klw you should be 200% up to speed on kwtqs plays & making similar outrageous profits that he said he was/could make.
I guess it didn't happen for you klw as if it did you'd be long gone by now.
Hi ausguy . I'm not 200% up on his play because if you read my last post properly he hasent revealed his system in full. The curve is interesting to me and many others I'm interested in how he applies it, this he has never fully revealed .
I'm still at the learning stage for roulette just a year and a bit part time. You're still here after many years what's your excuse ?
Looks like anyone that has a different opinion to you can expect a sly dig even if it takes months for you to get round to doing it ! Must have given you great satisfaction to write your last post.
As regards kwtq someone must think he's good he has his own roulette book on Bet Selection !
Cheers.
Quote from: ausguy on December 19, 2013, 06:46:02 PM
know when to quit seems to have done just that = QUIT ? My check shows his last post at #515 June 13 2013. Around 6 months ago.
kwtq s betting MO came under scrutiny by some forum members including birdhands & myself around May 2013.
birdhands questioned why kwtq couldn't find the time to play on a system/method that consistantly won ?
He was supposedly down in Guatemala doing charity work ? Him constantly winning at the local casino had him fearing his personal safety, kwtq said so.
I questioned why he was playing for relative peanuts when he could play at a 1st World casino & earn 8 - 12 times more than down in that poorer country.
(the variance relates to what country he would play & the exchange rates). In turn he could help 800% more people down there that way ?
Over all it just doesn't add up ?
As to TRUE BELIEVER klw you should be 200% up to speed on kwtqs plays & making similar outrageous profits that he said he was/could make.
I guess it didn't happen for you klw as if it did you'd be long gone by now.
You have questioned everyone and are still questioning peoples ability to win.
REMEMBER NOT EVERYONE WILL HAVE THE SAME LUCK... I HAVE PROVED TO YOU I CAN WIN 4digit figure by using 2 lower end digits.. From $60.00 To $1000+... I have shown it to everyone. I have done it at ease.
You claim to be winning so why look around for different systems..
I think I know what KWTQ is doing with his system/method. I am looking for some files in this thread. As soon as I have them. I will confirm and open a new thread to discuss this...
In short this is more like GUT using statistics and real time data to analyze within 60secs.
I am not sure but I think KWTQ has also said somewhere in his post, learn to read the curve first.. The curve is a combination of 4-5 different variances.
What he means by that is use the same data analyze it in 4-5 different ways and you will have 2 -3 variations that point to the same number's when that happens you bet the numbers.
In short, if i was looking at Even chance for example:
I have 4 reds, 3 evens and 5 high number's fall... you look at your data from the past spins and notice how fast the other side is changing when a run like this happens... Now where he made is money was by betting black, odd and low... Guess what? thats only 4-5 numbers... 11,13,15,17... He was betting heavy on those number's and to protect his investment he would play the neighbors too.
On his original post, he did the same with sleepers, he was smart to use 4-5 different strategy against same data.
If you go through some of my posts I have said the same thing: WE CAN BE WINNING CONSISTENT BY PLAYING 4-5 DIFFERENT SYSTEMS AT THE SAME TIME.
It's humanly possible for 10-15% of the population to be able to do that....of that only 1-2% gamble on a regular basis.. That's why casino's make the money they make..
BTW AUSGUY,
I know of people who gamble and give their winnings to charity.
klw -Yes I'm still here but I don't post much, slightly less than you looking at the stats @ only 1.141 posts per week average over 3 years.
The main thing is that I don't have an excuse because I don't need one. :laugh:
I'm retired & I don't play roulette every day, I have a varied life so I don't live & breathe roulette 24/7. I do OK. This year has been good as my roulette plays paid for a new car. I've averaged around $500 pw playing mainly at Party live dealer casino. The big bonus is the leverage that the exchange rates give.
Less than 300GBP gives the currency leverage back to +/- $500 here to OZ.
My play is on the ECs basic Marty progression with stop losses starting at mid level. I virtual V bet looking for a V win, this stops long strings of losses but doesn't stop switch back losses. That rarely happens so overall I'll win in the 60 - 100GBP range. In a day I might only play for an hour. Sometimes I might play 2 seperate 1 hour sessions.
As to this curve thing it should have been explained yonks ago "never been fully revealed" is against forum rules. This came up the other day on another thread where the Mod was warning a poster to show all of his method or get canned.
So kwtq has a roulette book. Now let me guess it's not free but if wanted it has to be paid for ?
It's the same old story - If anyone has a successful system (kwtq even said it was dangerously successful down in good 'ol Guetemala that he used to limit his wins & cash out to go & help the poor people of the area. How noble ?) it should make bulk money & not need book sales to make a few bucks ?
Have you bought the book ? If yes how much was it ? If you have it what's in it ? Obviously the curve thing hasn't been revealed so you're still in the dark ?
So klw what's your current MO ? Are you playing & winning a bit or not ? "Learning stage for a year and a bit part time " I'm borrowing this from Santa Claus - HO! HO! HO! HO! HO! HO! Soon in the New Year the Tooth Fairy is coming to visit.
Ah Azim has arrived - So you know of people who gamble and give their winnings to charity. Ok that's good - send me their names & phone numbers so I can ask them if it's true as I don't believe that what you say is fact for even 1 second ?
Your all over the forum Azim. I came across an older post of yours a few days ago where you were talking very positive about autowheel betting & if I recall other posts before that where you took issue with my view that it's not RNG but fair random spins ? Also & only briefly I think I saw another post of yours where you were very negative about autowheel play. What happened, get burned ? I laughed to myself & said "looks like the leopard has changed his spots".
I've said my piece on kwtq 7 months ago so revisit it there as it's still an unanswered "too hard file" question "
All I'll add, is in my view kwtq lacks credibility. He or non of his dedicated followers can adequately explain a 6 months & lengthening no show ?
Azim if I had the "secret weapon" that wins big with ease off a relatively small BR, then I wouldn't be on the forum but travelling the world making millions & living the playboy lifestyle that us "POOR CUZ" gamblers can only dream of ? With you it's rather difficult to seperate fact from fiction.
Quote from: ausguy on December 19, 2013, 09:42:57 PM
Ah Azim has arrived - So you know of people who gamble and give their winnings to charity. Ok that's good - send me their names & phone numbers so I can ask them if it's true as I don't believe that what you say is fact for even 1 second ?
Look up the NickName-> Robinhood of poker..
Your all over the forum Azim. I came across an older post of yours a few days ago where you were talking very positive about autowheel betting & if I recall other posts before that where you took issue with my view that it's not RNG but fair random spins ? Also & only briefly I think I saw another post of yours where you were very negative about autowheel play. What happened, get burned ? I laughed to myself & said "looks like the leopard has changed his spots".
I haven't changed my color at all-> I have said... Considering we gamble a lot online.. we see more of the abnormalities on a regular basis.
I've said my piece on kwtq 7 months ago so revisit it there as it's still an unanswered "too hard file" question "
All I'll add, is in my view kwtq lacks credibility. He or non of his dedicated followers can adequately explain a 6 months & lengthening no show ?
He has said in his posts...read before you accuse someone.. He had a new born or a kid that needed his attention... He had to be in the hospital due to his/ someone close to him....
Once again... you don't read everything and draw your conclusions...
Azim if I had the "secret weapon" that wins big with ease off a relatively small BR, then I wouldn't be on the forum but travelling the world making millions & living the playboy lifestyle that us "POOR CUZ" gamblers can only dream of ? With you it's rather difficult to seperate fact from fiction.
Goes both ways-> I don't know you and you don't know me... I was born in a family where both sides of the family gambled. I was taught how to gamble by my parents.
NOT EVERYONE IS OUT TO GAMBLE... SOME OF US ARE OUT FOR THE CHALLENGE ...
Anyways... here I will challenge you to this.... Write down 200 spins in a file... Zip it and password protect it..give us the password after I have made my 100 or lost my 60.. Give me the first 7 number's from that file... I will go spin by spin and tell you what I will bet on the next spin .. You give me the number after I tell you, I can assure you with a bankroll of $60.00 and 0.10 cent minimum bet->50.00 Maximum bet. I will turn the 60->160 before 200 spins...I am sure everyone will agree that that's a decent life to live on...
I THINK THE LAST POST WHEN I SHOWED MY WINNINGS I TOLD YOU I WAS DOING IT TO PROVE IT TO YOU, IT WAS A CHALLENGE I WAS UP FOR IT, I CAN DO IT IF I WANTED TOOOOOO...
BTW, I don't care how you get the 200 spins... RNG ... LIVE DEALER...even better... (Pardon me for this.. I know you are old.. I do respect older people in my life) COME UP WITH THEM YOURSELF...
There was a point in my life a few months back I was looking for a job, I wasn't out to scam anyone on this or the other forum. Got accused of trying to scam..
Well here is what I will Add: AZIM-> means The great one.. I was here on this 2 forums and a few others to look at systems... .. Anyway, Once again.. go read the topic where I have said "I want to hear your feedback".. I said if I am not mistaken.. IT WILL BE YOUR OWN GREED THAT WILL MAKE YOU LOSE MONEY... or something along those line...
Anyways if you are up for the challenge let me know.
For those who want to learn this.. It's all reading material
nolinks://nolinks.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13641.msg117659#msg117659
Quote from: ausguy on December 19, 2013, 09:06:42 PM
klw -Yes I'm still here but I don't post much, slightly less than you looking at the stats @ only 1.141 posts per week average over 3 years
Maybe on this forum,nearly all my posts are in this thread only,you seem to have opinions on everything but what about all your posts on other forums ? Must have lots of spare time hanging round ready to post.
The main thing is that I don't have an excuse because I don't need one. :laugh:
I'm retired & I don't play roulette every day, I have a varied life so I don't live & breathe roulette 24/7. I do OK. This year has been good as my roulette plays paid for a new car. I've averaged around $500 pw playing mainly at Party live dealer casino. The big bonus is the leverage that the exchange rates give.
Less than 300GBP gives the currency leverage back to +/- $500 here to OZ.
My play is on the ECs basic Marty progression with stop losses starting at mid level. I virtual V bet looking for a V win, this stops long strings of losses but doesn't stop switch back losses. That rarely happens so overall I'll win in the 60 - 100GBP range. In a day I might only play for an hour. Sometimes I might play 2 seperate 1 hour sessions.
Great stuff for you , are you ever going to reveal it totally to the forum or is it just talk ?
As to this curve thing it should have been explained yonks ago "never been fully revealed" is against forum rules. This came up the other day on another thread where the Mod was warning a poster to show all of his method or get canned.
You keep calling it " this curve thing " or " the curve thing " , I'm guessing you don't fully understand it, would you like me to explain it fully to you ? He has revealed the curve in full what I typed was that he has not revealed fully how he applies it . People who don't understand properly are often cynical.
So kwtq has a roulette book. Now let me guess it's not free but if wanted it has to be paid for ?
The section is headed " roulette book " , all systems in it are free, all you needed to do was have a quick look. Cynical !
It's the same old story - If anyone has a successful system (kwtq even said it was dangerously successful down in good 'ol Guetemala that he used to limit his wins & cash out to go & help the poor people of the area. How noble ?) it should make bulk money & not need book sales to make a few bucks ?
Cynical again !
Have you bought the book ? If yes how much was it ? If you have it what's in it ? Obviously the curve thing hasn't been revealed so you're still in the dark ?
Cynical again !
So klw what's your current MO ? Are you playing & winning a bit or not ? "Learning stage for a year and a bit part time " I'm borrowing this from Santa Claus - HO! HO! HO! HO! HO! HO! Soon in the New Year the Tooth Fairy is coming to visit.
Cynical again ! Are you a cynical person ausguy ? lol
Don't forget if you want me to explain " the curved thing " to you the offer still stands.I'll go slowly for you.
Cheers .....
klw - Looking at your comments I'll run through them as you've posted them.
Other forums ? - I only post on 1 other forum = Sister forum CC. Again not a high rate @ av. 1.61 per week over 2 years. I also posted on forum.net blah before VLS & CC but that's been mothballed for a very long time. All these are under the umbrella of Steve & everything, as you should be aware, is freely available for viewing, including my stats. Being retired I could be on the forums for hours every day but I'm not as my stats easily show. I have a life outside of betting & forums. Australia is a great place travel & I enjoy that all the time.
Re : EC betting - My experiences on VLS & CC over the last couple of years reveals most posters aren't too interested in EC betting. I believe that would include yourself ? A FEW forum members (out of hundreds) have PM'd me for more detail on EC ideas over the last 2 years, non have prevailed & stuck around.
However a new/old forum guy PMd me last week (he's in Perth West. OZ) & he used a lot of my EC methods + a little of his own & he said hewas then going to play it somewhere live dealer on line.
2 days later he PMd me that he'd joined Party Casino & in 1 hrs play he'd got his 60GBP BR up to 300GBP which he's withdrawing (1.To test the payouts 2. Some extra holiday money).
He's gone on holidays for a few weeks so it's in TO BE CONTINUED mode for now.
Also of value is the 60GBP BR cost around $110 AUD & 240GBP profit coming back to him = about $430. So for 1 hrs play his starting balance was $110 & when the "cash out" funds go in his new bal. will be $540.
I don't wish to be wasting my time & effort posting my play method when there is little interest in it ? Besides it's not ROCKET SCIENCE how I bet. Just the 3 even chances (2 x 3 = H/L,O/E,R/B) bet in turn with the last bet as the trigger (same as for the next bet). A std. Marty progression with stop losses after L3 & "V" bets (nil money Virtual) waiting for a "V" win which triggers the next money bet. "V" bets stop long strings of losses but can't succeed on switch back outcomes, that is "V" win, bet loss, "V" win, bet loss, "V" win, bet loss etc.
At this stage it's then getting close to bustsville. Thankfully due to randomness this rarely happens.
Also on the higher level bets I make an insurance cover bet on zero. As I've already said it's not ROCKET SCIENCE, it's just a version of what most EC players already know/play anyway.
Yes the exchange rate is "great stuff" (a cynical comment from you) but not just for me but any player that gets currency leverage from the value differences of various countries.
As to this CURVE THING I stand by what I say. If you don't know how to apply it?, then it's not complete. If it's not complete then you can't play it.
I believe that's where your are at, at this point in time ? I.E. Still trying to complete the "JIGSAW PUZZLE" ?
As to roulette book I didn't realise that's the lead in. I'll have another go at it & see what's shown. "Cynical" you say ? I think not. Too many people use words out of context these days such as "JEALOUS" when in fact in most cases they really should be saying "ENVIOUS" ?
Ok the book is free, so I concede I was wrong on that. I hope you don't regard it as a hanging offence, slip knot, gallows & all that ?
Cynical, cynical, cynical. So overused & incorrectly applied? Don't confuse it with things like constructive criticism.
As to the CURVE THING , no I don't want you to explain it as my interest meter on it is hovering down near zero, especially as you don't know how to apply it ?
As you never answered my question to you re : "Are you playing (any game) & winning or not" ? I deem that you aren't playing/betting on anything ? At least that way you don't lose any money. You're only an "apprentice" & as you say "I'm in the learning stage for a year & a bit". Ditto again for my Santa/Tooth Fairy HO! HO! thing.
Quote from: ausguy on December 20, 2013, 09:21:20 PM
klw - Looking at your comments I'll run through them as you've posted them.
Other forums ? - I only post on 1 other forum = Sister forum CC. Again not a high rate @ av. 1.61 per week over 2 years. I also posted on forum.net blah before VLS & CC but that's been mothballed for a very long time. All these are under the umbrella of Steve & everything, as you should be aware, is freely available for viewing, including my stats. Being retired I could be on the forums for hours every day but I'm not as my stats easily show. I have a life outside of betting & forums. Australia is a great place travel & I enjoy that all the time.
Re : EC betting - My experiences on VLS & CC over the last couple of years reveals most posters aren't too interested in EC betting. I believe that would include yourself ? A FEW forum members (out of hundreds) have PM'd me for more detail on EC ideas over the last 2 years, non have prevailed & stuck around.
However a new/old forum guy PMd me last week (he's in Perth West. OZ) & he used a lot of my EC methods + a little of his own & he said hewas then going to play it somewhere live dealer on line.
2 days later he PMd me that he'd joined Party Casino & in 1 hrs play he'd got his 60GBP BR up to 300GBP which he's withdrawing (1.To test the payouts 2. Some extra holiday money).
He's gone on holidays for a few weeks so it's in TO BE CONTINUED mode for now.
Also of value is the 60GBP BR cost around $110 AUD & 240GBP profit coming back to him = about $430. So for 1 hrs play his starting balance was $110 & when the "cash out" funds go in his new bal. will be $540.
I don't wish to be wasting my time & effort posting my play method when there is little interest in it ? Besides it's not ROCKET SCIENCE how I bet. Just the 3 even chances (2 x 3 = H/L,O/E,R/B) bet in turn with the last bet as the trigger (same as for the next bet). A std. Marty progression with stop losses after L3 & "V" bets (nil money Virtual) waiting for a "V" win which triggers the next money bet. "V" bets stop long strings of losses but can't succeed on switch back outcomes, that is "V" win, bet loss, "V" win, bet loss, "V" win, bet loss etc.
At this stage it's then getting close to bustsville. Thankfully due to randomness this rarely happens.
Also on the higher level bets I make an insurance cover bet on zero. As I've already said it's not ROCKET SCIENCE, it's just a version of what most EC players already know/play anyway.
Yes the exchange rate is "great stuff" (a cynical comment from you) but not just for me but any player that gets currency leverage from the value differences of various countries.
As to this CURVE THING I stand by what I say. If you don't know how to apply it?, then it's not complete. If it's not complete then you can't play it.
I believe that's where your are at, at this point in time ? I.E. Still trying to complete the "JIGSAW PUZZLE" ?
Quote from: know when to quit on February 06, 2011, 03:40:45 PM
Hello again,
Finally did the test I had been waiting years to do. I always wondered what would happen if I played at a live table, starting out with 1 unit chips then when I built them up to trade them in to 5 unit chips the up frpm there. I have been working for years on perfecting this sys and finally felt confident enough to give it a try. I played for three hours building up and trading in, 25 unit chips were difficult to play with because of low house plein bets (50 unit max plein bet) so I dropped back down to 5 unit and used that. cleared 4500 units and cashed out. ok this is not just a bragging thread..... this sys is difficult to explain but ill keep trying if you want to send me some actual spins ill explain what to bet next and why. sorry for the silence I have been very busy workig at our new school.
[/color]
As to roulette book I didn't realise that's the lead in. I'll have another go at it & see what's shown. "Cynical" you say ? I think not. Too many people use words out of context these days such as "JEALOUS" when in fact in most cases they really should be saying "ENVIOUS" ?
Ok the book is free, so I concede I was wrong on that. I hope you don't regard it as a hanging offence, slip knot, gallows & all that ?
Cynical, cynical, cynical. So overused & incorrectly applied? Don't confuse it with things like constructive criticism.
As to the CURVE THING , no I don't want you to explain it as my interest meter on it is hovering down near zero, especially as you don't know how to apply it ?
As you never answered my question to you re : "Are you playing (any game) & winning or not" ? I deem that you aren't playing/betting on anything ? At least that way you don't lose any money. You're only an "apprentice" & as you say "I'm in the learning stage for a year & a bit". Ditto again for my Santa/Tooth Fairy HO! HO! thing.
Ausguy... Here he is saying It's a system which is difficult to explain.... LIKE I SAID.. It's hard to explain someone how to think... Look he is requesting spins from anyone to explain... Go back to my thread "I want to hear feedback".. I quoted the same thing, If you lose with my system at that time, send me the spins and I will tell you were you went wrong...
Ausguy,
PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY.
In Canada, there is a talk that the Senior's will not have any pension plans..
The Senior's have contributed to this country, because of them, my kid's were able to get free education, we are getting free medicals..etc etc..
I am not bragging.. Look at my previous posts.. I have said this over and over.. Go to the ocean with a pail of water.. you will come out safe.. Try and take a truck and fill it up with water, by the time you try and get out, you will be stuck in the sand. The next tide will drown you... CASINO's are 24hr atm if used wisely...
I can talk about myself.. Touch wood I am blessed.. Yes, I have a period where I am jobless, but I have never starved in my life. I have been gifted with skills. I don't abuse my skills. Like I said, some of us are not out to gamble, we are out for the challenge..
Ok.. Enough said from my part..
Once again... This is not an even chance system where you tell someone to wait 15 spins and bet the opposite using marty.. I am sorry. I don't know who KNOW WHEN TO QUIT IS. But I will not let someone bash him for what ever reason...
I hate to do this:
But think, If you lost someone close to you, would you really care about anyone of us?
I hate to have said that, I hope he is in good health and nothing bad has happened?
Sorry again.. I just hate it when people accuse others without knowing the facts..
Azim - 1st up why don't you leave the reply to klw rather than answer for him on that particular post?
As to kwtq, going back to May 2013 or earlier ? kwtq was in conversation with me, not about his System but the circumstances of winning at the "Guanetelmalian?" Casino, how he sensed he may be a target for a hit, a bullet or two because he was winning too much too often. We had a few PM contacts about that aspect so obviously it won't show up in the posts.
The Central point revolved around the benefits of playing outside of where he was, EG Las Vegas. Leaving that poor country & taking his winning system/in play thinking method where he could win x8 the poor countries money (on a currency conversion basis). Plus playing elsewhere removes the local harm risk that he said his local casino wins presented.
If you visit my postings of 7 months ago you will see some reference to that. My logic was that he leaves the Poor country, wins a good wad in the rich country & he returns to the poor country with x 8 more money & therefore can help x 8 more people. Now that was a win win situation if ever I saw one, provided he won in Vegas naturally.
For me kwtq fluctuated with his contact. With the PMs he would ask for opinions, sometimes reply, sometimes not ? Sometimes wouldn't answer questions sometimes only part answer. At the time kwtq was looking for answers. All I have seen since May is that he's "flown the coup". You say he's looking after some child illness ? I've seen people looking after cronically ill children but they don't do it 24/7 & they do/must have a little "me" time. I'll bet that if kwtq wanted to he would have a bit of time to post here occassionally, there's other factors involving mind function here, in my view ?
When I criticise kwtq it's mainly due to his lack of communication rather than anything much about his systems/methods. I do criticise the "How To Apply Part" ?
That's my view & I won't be appologising for it.
As to pension plans (PPs) & S (Superannuation) - Most countries that have them (PPs & S) are on a downward spiral.
Due to gross fund "Managers" mismanagemant/apathy of super payees/govt. inaction, I think most people are doomed for a comfortable financial life into retirement. Mainly because their money is going backwards & inflation will take care of the rest.
Quote from: ausguy on December 21, 2013, 04:23:40 AM
Azim - 1st up why don't you leave the reply to klw rather than answer for him on that particular post?
As to kwtq, going back to May 2013 or earlier ? kwtq was in conversation with me, not about his System but the circumstances of winning at the "Guanetelmalian?" Casino, how he sensed he may be a target for a hit, a bullet or two because he was winning too much too often. We had a few PM contacts about that aspect so obviously it won't show up in the posts.
The Central point revolved around the benefits of playing outside of where he was, EG Las Vegas. Leaving that poor country & taking his winning system/in play thinking method where he could win x8 the poor countries money (on a currency conversion basis). Plus playing elsewhere removes the local harm risk that he said his local casino wins presented.
If you visit my postings of 7 months ago you will see some reference to that. My logic was that he leaves the Poor country, wins a good wad in the rich country & he returns to the poor country with x 8 more money & therefore can help x 8 more people. Now that was a win win situation if ever I saw one, provided he won in Vegas naturally.
For me kwtq fluctuated with his contact. With the PMs he would ask for opinions, sometimes reply, sometimes not ? Sometimes wouldn't answer questions sometimes only part answer. At the time kwtq was looking for answers. All I have seen since May is that he's "flown the coup". You say he's looking after some child illness ? I've seen people looking after cronically ill children but they don't do it 24/7 & they do/must have a little "me" time. I'll bet that if kwtq wanted to he would have a bit of time to post here occassionally, there's other factors involving mind function here, in my view ?
When I criticise kwtq it's mainly due to his lack of communication rather than anything much about his systems/methods. I do criticise the "How To Apply Part" ?
That's my view & I won't be appologising for it.
As to pension plans (PPs) & S (Superannuation) - Most countries that have them (PPs & S) are on a downward spiral.
Due to gross fund "Managers" mismanagemant/apathy of super payees/govt. inaction, I think most people are doomed for a comfortable financial life into retirement. Mainly because their money is going backwards & inflation will take care of the rest.
Ausguy,
I will be rude this time and say it.. ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT HAVE MADE THIS WORLD GO INTO WAR FOR UNCALLED REASONS...
Here are the quotes.. What are you questioning from him?
Quote from: know when to quit on March 03, 2011, 01:08:34 AM
sorry for the silence but one of our teachers at our school passed away...24 years old......ill try to be in chat if any one would like.
Quote from: ausguy on May 27, 2013, 08:34:56 PM
kwtq - Would you comment on Birdhands post #371 dated June 19 2012 where he responded to your post #370 above his dated June 15 2012.
I quote birdhands post re: part of your post " When I find time to play"
Birdhands then asks you, "How hard is it to find the time to make thousands of dollars per hour"?
By my calculations from your earnings in your #370 post you should be at least over $3 million in profit by now ? I can only summise that not having time to play means you have a more lucrative income stream ?
Same question I was asked....
I don't recall knowing about any multi millionaires on these forums ?
Does anyone smell a PORK PIE here?
Azim - Your post is totally illogical & is attempting to inflame an argument without valid reason " ......"IT'S PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT HAVE MADE THIS WORLD GO INTO WAR FOR UNCALLED REASONS ..." ? ???
As to your other raised matters ? Check out the time lines here...... The school teachers passing (always sad) was mentioned in MARCH 2011.
ONE YEARS THREE MONTHS later(= JUNE 2012) kwtq was on this forum (not away somewhere still grieving over the teachers passing) discussing outcome success of his system. The relevant thing is Birdhands post in response to kwtqs mention of how successful his system/method was at MAKING BIG MONEY BUT "TOO BUSY TO REGULARLY PLAY IT" & Birdhands sums it up nicely in this part of his post ....."HOW HARD IS IT TO FIND THE TIME TO MAKE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS PER HOUR" ?
When things don't add up they usually aren't true ? Here we have kwtq doing volunteer work in a poor country with the main help item being money or in kwtq case the lack of it. Then you have the scenario of kwtq always winning down there in the poor country casino & his mention that there might be a bullet with his name on it as a reward for his success ? A more lucrative & threat free option was available yet he chose not to take it = Las Vegas (or similar) ?
I've already mentioned this in a recent post.
Check out post #370 (as you've highlighted) & discussed by me & the relevant calculation of $3 million. You write in blue "same question I was asked" ... Did you have an answer ? If yes then what was your reply ?
It was the $3 million refeerence that led to my PORK PIE comment. In case the meaning escapes you it's from UK London area old Cockney rhyming slang they use/used. PIE rhymes with LIE. Thus PORK PIE = LIE. Also often shortened to PORKIES... Sometimes seen in UK crime shows " Your telling us PORKIES 'ol son".
As you sometimes lecture me about reading posts, you should revisit the kwtq thread & read the relevant matters under discussion starting at +/- #370.
Study up on that facet of the posts & get up to speed on it.
Perhaps then you may not always be looking at kwtq & his MOs through ROSE COLOURED GLASSES ? ...........AMEN.
Quote from: Azim on December 20, 2013, 01:22:10 AM
For those who want to learn this.. It's all reading material
nolinks://nolinks.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13641.msg117659#msg117659
You see Azim,even here ppl.can't get you....sad.
Quote from: mcmonaco on December 23, 2013, 02:53:18 PM
You see Azim,even here ppl.can't get you....sad.
Never sad.. It's just a shame to see what's happening.
Quote from: Azim on December 23, 2013, 03:07:17 PM
Never sad.. It's just a shame to see what's happening.
--But don't get discouraged.....it is virtual world.
Quote from: mcmonaco on December 23, 2013, 04:22:13 PM
--But don't get discouraged.....it is virtual world.
For sure. I have seen worst...
The problem with this thread is more into how much he win rather than the system itself...