(Coming soon as time permits)
I will detail another "favorite" which plays (max) 4 numbers on the layout.
Simple progression and almost no charting required.
As soon as I have the time to type it, it will be here for the members (VLS)
Thank you again for the invite to the forum.
Hey TG!!!
Great to see you posting here! Look forward to your future contributions!
Matt
:thumbsup:
It is always nice to have a great mind like yours in the forum,
Welcome :)
Welcome, welcome, welcome!!!
I think we are all very excited to see you here Turbo!
[smiley=1/jump.gif]
Thanks all - nice to have somewhere to post with the unexpected demise of VIP.
I certainly don't have the time that I used to, but I can do what I can and maybe
continue to spark ideas for others as well :)
================================
This is a pretty simple and straightforward way to play -
working with repeaters and keeping within a single dozen section of the
table (since I sit next to the wheel (US) - I use Dozen 1 (1-12) when playing this.
I usually run off an example while making a post but in this case I ran one off
this afternoon due to the number of spins and of course the "nice" results -
(better than I have seen at the table) kept me hitting "spin" in RX :)
There is something interesting that you can find when running off spins or
recording actuals - it isn't 100% (nothing is).. but it is something to take notice
of and this method tries to do that.
Record or note the numbers as they show in a dozen (1-12) and which street
they show as well.
If a number shows and then another in the same street - that street is no longer
playable (example 29,1,00,32,2) now since 1 showed from street (1-3) and then
2... we do not have a repeat.
Now, if you do this once for each street in the dozen, you will see that "almost"
(and I mean very almost) all of the time - at least 1 repeat will happen out of the
4 possible streets in the dozen section.
Here is an example that I can do while typing, I'll grab actuals and show what I
mean.
20080507_6 (table 6 - May 7th) Wiesbaden spins :
12 (note the 10-12 street has #12 marked)
32
30
24
6 (note the 4-6 street has #6 marked)
20
28
28
22
7 (note the 7-9 street has #7 marked)
27
10 (now note that #12 did not repeat - that street is now ignored)
28
4 (now note that #6 did not repeat - that street is now ignored)
3 (note the 1-3 street has #3 marked)
10
31
6
10
2 (now note that #3 did not repeat - that street is now ignored)
27
11
1
11
24
7 (Here is the win)
So, out of the 4 possible streets in dozen 1, one did have a repeater.
(no big deal ?) let's reset the game and continue on with the next spins...
28
7 (note #7 in the 7-9 street is marked)
25
24
3 (note #3 in the 1-3 street is marked)
28
11 (note #11 in the 10-12 street is marked)
21
34
7 (win) and the table/chart resets again.
==
23
5 (note #5 in the 4-6 street is marked)
33
5 (win) and the table/chart resets again
==
36
28
28
22
15
8 (note #8 in the 7-9 street is marked)
26
24
13
31
5 (note #5 in the 4-6 street is marked)
21
6 (now note #5 did not repeat, this street is done)
17
14
34
0
17
34
20
11 (note #11 in the 10-12 street is marked)
29
17
1 (note #1 in the 1-3 street is marked)
11 (win)
==
Ok, without going through the next 92 spins - the example is made well enough.
You can "expect" at least one of the 4 streets to have a repeat almost all of the time.
=====================================
So... the progression is simple and works as such :
Let's say we are using $5.00 chips for the sake of example...
You will play the initial number that shows in each street as explained above.
"IF" one of the other 2 numbers in that street shows, you remove the bets from
that street only, and increase the bet amounts on anything else being played
by 1 unit (so all $5.00 bets go to $10.00 bets)
Now, let's assume that another street is also being played and one of the 2
other numbers shows in that street - again remove that street's bets and add
1 unit to the numbers being played.
Any win removes all bets from all numbers and the progression resets back
to the min that you are using ($5.00 in this case).
There are also very few spins where nothing at all is being bet on.
The action moves along quite well at the table.
Now - let's say (and it WILL happen) that you go through all 4 streets and they
all end up being non-repeaters (doesn't happen often, but does happen.)
I move the entire progression up by 1 unit and start all over again..
(example with "u" being "units")
1u-2u-3u-4u and no repeats - starting over again
2u-3u-4u-5u etc....
and again, on any win you reset back to 1 unit and begin again new.
========================================
Here is a chart that I ran through for an example.
I used $25.00 chips for the unit size, which also makes for a nicer chart (lol)
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi29.tinypic.com%2F16litdv.png&hash=3c24ae6a30c2f43d542e35e02d96c7152cc82c14)
Now - it may seem like nothing, it may seem impressive..
The drawdowns might be extreme but of course this is $25.00 chips
with progression (25-50-75-100) and not typical of how most people
will play.
The "math" is impressive (to me)
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi26.tinypic.com%2F2myvn08.png&hash=6183efda075d9ed248e93a947522feeaee261f3e)
Here is what stands out -
1) 31 1/2 hours of playing time and very well into profit.
2) the "house edge" is explained below, along with the actual balance :
house edge (spins/37)*average amount bet per spin (negative value)
which is -$2,251.13 (what we should expect to be at)
and the balance is +$20,250.00
A very nice difference there in amounts :)
Will it end up negative at the house edge amount over time ?
I would assume so, yes.. but it has worked for me live and it is
simple to play (no paperwork needed - charting can be done mentally only)
So enjoy - or improve upon it and report back with your improvements :)
Cheers
Nice to see you here Turbo.
Thanks for the post.
iggy
..............Turbo you can ask VLS your own section here. I think he will give it to you as to many others :thumbsup:
Carlitos 8-)
I second that Carlitos. :thumbsup:
It would be awesome if Turbo had a section to post too so that all his great ideas would be easy to find! [smiley=4/groupwave.gif]
It is great to see you here with us Turbo . welcome mate :thumbsup:
Sure you will have your own section here with us as soon as you agree my dear.
Well, yes, a "Genius at work" session would rock!
I think people would agree to make him a forum moderator too. He has experience in keeping the good comments regarding the systems in and the impolite comments out (VIP's standard policy!).
And Turbo, mate, do not forget to have a look around here:
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1209868388
We are all glad of seeing you around.
Victor
Turbo
OK, got a question. Referring to your numbers, number 12 comes first. Am I to bet on that number (12) to repeat until another number in that street hits (10 or 11), which kills the bet, or until 12 hits?
My questions are sometimes tiring and seemingly pointless, but when I test, I do it by hand with a calculator. Nothing ruins my day like getting a thousand spins into a test and finding I'm doing it wrong.
Sam
If I understand you correctly you play only the one # showing from the street e.g. 11. That means that you play from every street showing up just one number and if some other number from the same street shows up you disconnect the whole street. You actually bet one number showing up from 4 streets of first dozen.
You could do the same with second and third dozen. You would have to bet 12 numbers (3 x 4=12) in worse scenario.
Interesting approach!
Welcome
Hermes
Hermes
I think we both agree. I placed a sheet under testing.
Sam
Yes.
Here is an example (hope it clears up the progression and betting questions)
nolinks://tinypic.com/player.php?v=k97rli&s=3
Thanks, Turbo.
I posted a spreadsheet under "Testing", but I got it wrong and deleted it. Very soon I will begin a test using the numbers I used on the clothdog test and post them.
Sam
Let's assume you went in armed with this system (and a healthy bankroll)
using 25.00 chips and played yesterday (friday) at Weisbaden.
Here are the results (good or bad)
It turns out that there is only data available for 3 of the tables for download.
Fair enough.. let's see what happens.
table (3,4 and 6)
Table 3 :
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi26.tinypic.com%2F2uiaxbc.png&hash=07232a305b9ccc90fa5b4400ee15c8014a5fe8a6)
Ok, so table is closed - but you walk with $2,575.00
Table 4 :
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi32.tinypic.com%2Fn2el9j.png&hash=01ed400078320476c372137cfd94f015dd211612)
Ok, so this table is done - and you walk with another $1,675.00
Table 6 :
(https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinks%3A%2F%2Fi32.tinypic.com%2F692w40.png&hash=6f3d90cd79fc9938fbc1ffe71f4c16c3d1955f99)
Ok, so this table is done - and you walk with another $3,675.00
This brings these few amount of spins a balance of +$7,925.00 profit
which means 317 units profit.
I tested the system on RNGs and to my surprise it worked. I had to wait a long time for the #12 after all 3 other streets of 1st dozen was terminated and it came. It would need a longer progression. The best results would be reached if we observe say 12 to 18 spins and chose to play the most successful dozen or column with Turbo's strategy. In one point I got 3 rd column to be the best and it would win constantly - bet the trend. What if the 1st dozen is behind during your betting - swimming against the stream?
Hermes
Hi Turbo, nice to c ya ;)
Can you guys believe a few nights ago I caught about 80 live spins with only 3 repeats :o
So much for the law of the third and for my bankroll :'(
Agreed - I don't want to imply that this is "foolproof" because it does lose
and can take a while to recover (see chart on page 1).
3 hits in 80 spins is a great result for betting on one number! It need only long enough progression and implement my suggestions for picking the right dozen or column for choosing the most coming streets. We can actually observe the 12 streets and pick up the 4 most coming and do the same as we do with 1st dozen. It would be a "global" choice to let the trend be your friend.
Hermes
hermes
Yes, it would...if you were only betting on one number. You could be betting on as many as four in each dozen.
That could change things considerably.
I have been doing just "eyeball" scans of some actual numbers from real wheels and I am finding runs like this: 10 32 26 11(kills 10) 34 10 11.
JLP.- has been posting some actuals from Dublinbet. Since these are posted for everyone to see, I will give them a try. (Thanks, JLP.-){Someday I must take time to ask him what that .- after the JLP means, but not now.}
I am going to try this just as Turbo posted it, without all the "what if I had done this" sidebars.
If I understand Turbo's statistics, spin 32 was his worst drawdown.
Sam
Welcome turbo, nice to see you here.
Have you test your system with another prog?
eg.
1)softer as 111222etc
2)prog on the winnings same but you keep playing 1 unit until you hit and add 1 to all of the numbers played. Stop-win?
Last question: stop-loss and BR?
best regards
I haven't tested any variations with the progression, but have a go at it :)
I'm sure that it can be improved.
I tested again over 300 spins and won 6+26+54+52 units = +138 units. I played best coming dozen. We can expect to win in average 50 units / 100 spins. Progression is common sense: if you are ahead 6 units from pay off win you rise 1 unit on all bets. E.g. spent 30 units x $1= $30 rise to $2 units (on all bets) if you win next you get $ 72 (72 - 32 = $ 40 win).
You rise 1 unit every time you are 6 units to pay by win. E.g. $2 unit wins $72 and if you already spent $66 rise to $3 unit all bets. Next spending limit would be $102 as win gives $108.
It is important to find out what bankroll is needed for different minimum bets ($1,$5,$10,$20).
The hits come pretty sure, even when on last call.
Hermes
Quote3 hits in 80 spins is a great result for betting on one number! It need only long enough progression and implement my suggestions for picking the right dozen or column for choosing the most coming streets. We can actually observe the 12 streets and pick up the 4 most coming and do the same as we do with 1st dozen. It would be a "global" choice to let the trend be your friend.
Hermes
Hi Hermes
Not 3 hits. In about 80 spins only 3 numbers repeated once.
moch
I enjoy your Jung quote. There is order within the chaos!
Sam
Moch, was it on RNG numbers - the disaster?
For sure in every chaos is an order. Somebody (the multi-lye-media, leading corporations & politicians) makes and control the chaos to exploit the dumb sheep crowd. USA/Canada are school examples.
Hermes
Quotemoch
I enjoy your Jung quote. There is order within the chaos!
Sam
I think so as well, Sam.
QuoteMoch, was it on RNG numbers - the disaster?
For sure in every chaos is an order. Somebody (the multi-lye-media, leading corporations & politicians) makes and control the chaos to exploit the dumb sheep crowd. USA/Canada are school examples.
Hermes
Hermes, not RNG. It was on a mechanical wheel, the ones the ball is released by air pressure.
I've been playing on this same machine for years. Never saw anything like this :-/
I wouldn't trust air pressure ball shoots. It is not natural approach. Why not shot the ball with the gun into the roulette bowl?
At the 4#s system I got what I was afraid. First, I started to bet on 2, 5 and 10 immediately after that 1st dozen went to sleep for 14 spins and than came 3, 12 and 4. One could blow his horn! If bet mechanically try to bet just one street from every dozen but best solution would be to mark all 12 streets and bet the 4 best. There will be some sleeps but all 4 will almost never go to sleep together if they are front liners. That would be a liquid/flexible and trend obeying strategy. Otherwise it works.
Hermes.
yes, I've done well and got robbed many times by airball. Rather play with a dealer.
cd
QuoteI wouldn't trust air pressure ball shoots. It is not natural approach. Why not shot the ball with the gun into the roulette bowl?
At the 4#s system I got what I was afraid. First, I started to bet on 2, 5 and 10 immediately after that 1st dozen went to sleep for 14 spins and than came 3, 12 and 4. One could blow his horn! If bet mechanically try to bet just one street from every dozen but best solution would be to mark all 12 streets and bet the 4 best. There will be some sleeps but all 4 will almost never go to sleep together if they are front liners. That would be a liquid/flexible and trend obeying strategy. Otherwise it works.
Hermes.
Welcome TurboGenius, and thanks for the system sharing.
Hermes, what do you mean by the 4 best. Are we saying the 4 streets with the highest hit frequency or the 4 streets with the highest repeat history or both?
How many spins on average would it take to establish said trend to begin or shift from virtual to actual betting?
Bloom
is it possible to made these Rxtreme coded ?? looks verry interesting..
[smiley=4/welcome.gif] [size=16]TurboGenius ![/size]
I was on vacation for a week and when i came to the forum i had this awsome surprise. :thumbsup:
It´s great to have you around. Hope all is well with you and your family. See you soon. :)
[smiley=4/partytime2.gif]
bloomone, I mean 4 most repeated streets and wait for 18 spins before established favorites. If favorites change, change bets too but only if you are not betting yet! If you are betting already you have to finish than change to other more favorable street. Hit only once! If more hits on favorite streets and it is not your betting number, that's bad sign.
Hermes
Quotebloomone, I mean 4 most repeated streets and wait for 18 spins before established favorites. If favorites change, change bets too but only if you are not betting yet! If you are betting already you have to finish than change to other more favorable street. Hit only once! If more hits on favorite streets and it is not your betting number, that's bad sign.
Hermes
Hermes see the following thread nolinks://vlsroulette.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1210710407, where TCS has another spin on it. Also, see below I've place the same short session TCS used to generate 206 units within 53 spins and apply your method, It took over 18 spins to generate 4 streets and there were not were many betting opportunities, although, I decided to pick the hot numbers from virtual betting to repeat as a spinoff from your idea and I got positive results. 9 bets 42 units. Maybe, you can post a sample of your proposal.
JLP actuals used by TCS with Hermes hot 4 streets throughout board
1 36 d3
2 34 d3
3 28 d3
4 14 d2
5 12 d1
6 6 d1
7 5 d1
8 12 d1 12 repeats (10-12) 1st street
9 12 d1 12 repeats (10-12) 1st street again
10 27 d3
11 7 d1
12 27 d3 27 repeats (25-27) 2nd street
13 28 d3 28 repeats (28-30) 3rd street
14 23 d2
15 11 d1
16 3 d1
17 1 d1
18 31 d3
19 21 d2
20 0 na
21 22 d2
22 28 d3 28 repeats (28-30) 3rd street again
23 4 d1
24 7 d1 7 repeats (7-9) 4th street, bet on 7, 12, 27, 28
25 14 d2 -4
26 2 d1 -8
27 4 d1 -12
28 19 d2 -16
29 14 d2 -20
30 35 d3 -24
31 27 d3 36-24= 12u
32 5 d1 -3=9u
33 7 d1 36-3+9=42u, no more hit beyond this point
34 1 d1
35 6 d1
36 25 d3
37 14 d2
38 29 d3
39 3 d1
40 2 d1
41 2 d1
42 3 d1
43 34 d3
44 17
45 36
46 9
47 22
48 6
49 7
50 11
51 30
53 0
54 35
55 18
56 11
Bloom
TG
Great to see you here...I don't get on Victor's board as much as I should, so I didn't see that you were here. Welcome, man! It's been a long time coming...I was actually thinking about why you hadn't been invited sooner.
Hope to work with you in the future.
Keith
I am happy that I could contribute to Turbo's idea. That's how it should be. We are team. Me and Turbo are compatible because he is the powerful turbo engine and I am the 4 x 4 performance Drive. A perfect racing car with power and stability.
I played the Turbo 4 his way online live numbers and watch what happened!
# - bet on /$units - is/get = total win
=======================
31
35
17
0
4
20 4/1 unit................. -1
3 4/1 u.....................-2
22 4,3/2 u...................-4
27 4,3/2 u...................-6
32 4,3/2 u...................-8
4 4,3/2 u... 4 hit -10/+36= +26
19 3/1u.......................-1
18 3/1u.......................-2
11 3/1u.......................-3
3 3,11/2u... 3 hit -5/+36= +31
7 11/1u.....................-1
18 11,7/2u...................-3
32 11,7/2u...................-5
7 11,7/2u... 7 hit -7/+36=+29
3 11/1u.....................-1
11 11,3/2u... 11 hit -3/+36=+33
34 3/1u.......................-1
31 3/1u.......................-2
5 3/1u.......................-3
35 3,5/2u....................-5
24 3,5/2u....................-7
12 3,5/2u....................-9
36 3,5,12/3u...............-12
0 3,5,12/3u...............-15
19 3,5,12/3u...............-18
18 3,5,12/3u...............-21
11 3,5,12/3u... 12 out..-24
26 3,5/2u....................-26
7 3,5/2u....................-28
27 3,5,7/3u.................-31
34 3,5,7/6u.................-37
15 3,5,7/6u.................-43
23 3,5,7/6u.................-49
5 3,5,7/6u... 5 hit -55/+72=+17
7 3,7/2u... 7 hit -2/+36=+34
15
16
7 START TO BET ON 7 AGAIN but I had enough........ +$170,- (if you are lucky don't tease it because it turns against you)
5 START TO BET ON 5 AGAIN
15
Hermes
34 3,5,7/6u.................-37
15 3,5,7/6u.................-43
23 3,5,7/6u.................-49
5 3,5,7/6u... 5 hit -55/+72=+17
hermes, would you tell me why you doubled your bets here?
What tell you when to add more units?
Turbo said that you must add 1 unit to each of the numbers that remained when you take one out.
11 3,5,12/3u... 12 out..-24 so you should have raised your bets here after leaving #12 so next spin would be 3,5/4u -26
Sorry if I missed sth.
I do different progression as Turbo.
As you can see I was losing -31 chips betting $1 on each number. If I would win I would win only $5 (36-31=5), therefore I had to increase to bet $2 on each number to keep winning if hit ($2 win 2x36=72). The rule is clear that if you are with your losses near to the pay offs if win, that's the signal to increase the bets for every number in play.
If you bet $1/# and are -31 chips and pay off is 36 chips you must increase bets to win something if you hit.Otherwise you go to minus. The rule could be 5 units before pay offs increase 1 unit. E.g. losing 68 units betting $2 a # and pay off is 72 units. It is time to increase 1 unit to rise next pay off ( 3 units x 36= 108). If you win next spin it would be 108 - 71 (68+3)= +37 units a $1.
We don't play for fun, but rather for winning money.
Hermes
I played these turbos method with some little changes. and i was successful
I played turbos bet selection on all 3 dozens at the same time. but my progression was a little different. When turbo cancles all 4 streets in the played dozen he resets the progression back to 2-3-4-5, but i have just proceed with the progression like 5-6-7-8. So the difference is just is the progression. if we cancle all 4 streets continue with the new bet seleczion in the played dozen but progression continues with 5-6-7-8.
I thing these progression is a little more agrsssive but it makes you recovery more qucklye if you fail to hit it the firlst level of progression.
However i think we should code the sistem but with difernet progrssions to see how it really works on the long term.
The Turbo's strategy is a winner. It is not bad idea to bet on all 3 dozens because it will balance itself, only you need more bankroll and good marking, not to get into controlled chaos. What you do if you lose the second stage of the progression? Cash by Interac (bank machine)? I thought to use a rise - when - win progression, something like Oscar Grind.
Hermes
QuoteWhat you do if you lose the second stage of the progression? Cash by Interac (bank machine)?
Till now i have not reached the 3th stage of progression (9-10-11-12) but for sure, these can happen. If these situation happens...lets say you finally win at the 3th stage, i would simply reset like turbo suggest and start again form the 2nd stage of progression untill a you win at the first stage.
Its interesting becouse everytime i used the "stage progression" i recovered fine even from bigger drowndowns.
I know that more stage progression needs a larger bankroll. But if we could code and test these method on more spins we cold see what bakroll makes these sistem stable.
I still see the 4 successful (hot) streets betting with "my progression" the best solution. Even I lost all 4 bets on 4 streets because of cancellation, I recovered easily. I used that type of progression successfully for chasing doubles. If somebody could make a SPREADSHEET which one would count the 12 streets appearances , it would be very helpful.
Where is Turbo? He ran away from his own thread? We would like your opinion on the mess we did with your thread - TG. We know the fuel is getting more and more expensive but...
Hermes
@hermes, I used your progression on a 97 spins session test and made 134 units, but I decided to continue the session and saw and interesting downturn where a lot of d1's were getting killed repeatedly without a hit. How would you handle the following session below. My thought is if a street is killed 2x, then add the whole street to the betting cycle, like 8,9,9 play 8-10:
24
30
-- -- --
8
31
3
24
9
11
9
26
31
29
4
-- -- --
21
14
14
1
3
24
31
26
8
27
-- -- --
7
7
2
36
13
30
5
29
4
26
21
31
26
-- -- --
5
23
21
7
27
0
25
34
8
2
33
6
2
Bloom
Bloom, that's the problem when we play rigid system. If the 1st dozen goes to sleep for 20 spins and you are already betting on a few streets it could be a disaster. Therefore, it is important keep eye on what we are playing. Probably the 2nd and 3rd alternate. 4 best streets are going with the trend and that's flexible. You always adjust to the 4 best one but only after you won or cancel street. Action finished. Betting 1st dozen even if it is asleep is rigid and have to lose sometimes/more times. Option would be that if you bet 1st dozen and don't see it coming for 10 spins - wait and don't bet until you see one # of the 1st coming. Abandon the betting until it wakes up again.
134 units win on 97 spins is good result but as you saw everything what goes up has to go sometimes down - retired, and some other dozen goes on sun. You have to catch that one. If you mark the game you will see the changes and act properly.
Hermes
Ok, I decided workout this session from start to end and it had -298 downturn before it hit, but it ended with +14unit in 46 spins. Kinda touch but still worked in the end. I dont know if a stoploss would be necessary and if so how much, any thoughts:
1 24
2 30
3 8
4 31 8/1u -1
5 3, 3,8/2u -3
6 24 s -5
7 9 3,8/2u, k8-10 -7
8 11 3/1u -8
9 9 3,11/2u, -10
10 26 3,11/2u -12
11 31 s -14
12 29 s -16
13 4 s -18
14 21 3,4,11/3u -21
15 14 3,4,11/3u -24
16 14 3,4,11/3u -27
17 1 3,4,11/3u, k3 -30
18 3 4,11/2u +2 -32
19 24 4,11/4u -34
20 31 4,11/4u -38
21 26 4,11/4u -42
22 8 4,8,11/6u -48
23 27 4,8,11/6u -54
24 7 4,8,11/6u, k8 -60
25 7 4,11/4u +3 -64
26 2 4,11/6u -70
27 36 2,4,11/9u -79
28 13 2,4,11/9u -88
29 30 2,4,11/9u -97
30 5 2,4,11/9u, k4 +4 -106
31 29 2,11/8u -114
32 4 2,11/8u -122
33 26 2,11/8u -130
34 21 2,11/8u +5 -138
35 31 2,11/10u -148
36 26 2,11/10u -158
37 5 2,11/10u +6 -168
38 23 2,11/12u -180
39 21 2,11/12u -192
40 7 2,11/12u +7 -204
41 27 2,11/14u -218
42 0 2,11/14u -232
43 25 2,11/14u +8 -246
44 34 2,11/16u +9 -262
45 8 2,11/18u -280
46 2 2,8,11/27u, 2h -307+324=14
47 33
48 6
49 2
Here I played the same group of spin that gave me a low of -298 testing doz1 and testing all 3 doz of low of -130 (actually it could have a little better if i didnt include #24 again in spin 20). Anyway, I applied the first 35 spins of the 49 group and got 121 units. I think a stopwin is very important here, because at a certain point the majority of the streets would be canceled and the sleepers streets may remain. So, I think maybe a stopwin and streets cancelled limit should be established and which ever comes first in order to balance the drawdowns and plus unit potential. Any ideas? I'm thinking stopwin of +100 and a cancelled streets of 4-6.
Another option would be to play all 3 dozens using Hermes progression method and treat each dozen as separate game but I agree with Hermes the tracking is extensive although the br would be as great as with the original progression.
Play all 3 dozens with the same group with Hermes Method
1 24
2 30
3 8
4 31, bet (8, 24/30) +1
5 3, (8, 24, 30/31) +1 -3
6 24 (3,8, 24, 30/31) +1, 24h -7+36=29
7 9, (3,8, 30/31) +1 -4
8 11, (3/8/11, 30/31) +1 -9
9 9, (3/8/11, 30/31) +1, K8 -13
10 26, (3/11, 30/31) +1 -17
11 31, (3/11, 26/30/31) +1, 31h -22+36=14
12 29, (3/11, 26/30) +1, k30 -4
13 4, (3/11, 26) +1 -7
14 21, (3/4/11, 26) +1 -11
15 14, (3/4/11, 21, 26) +1 -16
16 14, (3/4/11, 14/21, 26) +1 , 14h -22+36=14
17 1, (3/4/11, 21, 26) +1, k3 -5
18 3, (4/11, 21, 26) +1 -9
19 24, (4/11, 21, 26) +1 -13
20 31, (4/11, 21/24, 26) +1 -18
21 26, (4/11, 21/24, 26/31) +1, k26 -24+36=12
22 8, (4/11, 21/24, 31) +1 -5
23 27, (4/11, 21/24, 31) +1 -10
24 7, (4/11, 21/24, 31) +1 -15
25 7, (4/11, 21/24, 31) +1 -20
26 2, (4/11, 21/24, 31) +1 -25
27 36, (4/11, 21/24, 31) +1 -30
28 13, (4/11, 21/24, 31,36) +2 -42
29 30, (4/11, 13/21/24, 31,36) +2 -56
30 5, (4/11, 13/21/24, 31,36) +2, k4 -70
31 29, (11, 13/21/24, 31,36) +3, -88
32 4, (11, 13/21/24, 31,36) +3 -106
33 26, (11, 13/21/24, 31,36) +4 -130
34 21, (11, 13/21/24, 31,36) +5, 21h -160+180=20
35 31, (11, 13, 31/36) +1 31h -4+36=32
Summary 35 spins 29+14+14+12+20+32 = 121
36 26
37 5
38 23
39 21
40 7
41 27
42 0
43 25
44 34
45 8
46 2
47 33
48 6
49 2
Bloom
Still too much downfall! More downfall than -50 is scary, you cannot expect that you always recover. Next time bet only 4 best streets. By betting the 4 best streets you are all over the lay out. All 4 streets will not go to sleep at once. I was thinking that if some street is canceled bet next the number, which canceled the street. e.g. you bet on #8 and #7 canceled it, then bet further the #7 ??? By that downfall we need more stop loss than stop win.
Thanks for the heavy involvement bloom. we will get the answer, because the whole idea is healthy. It needs some cosmetics.
Hermes
oK, I have 2 challenges with that approach. First, I have seen where a canceled street with come back with either the third number, the number that canceled it or the first number that spun in the session. So, I what I have seen that works much better in my test is that if the is cancelled and then a number from the street is spun again within the session, play the entire street, because, the street is now destignated as hot and typical a number from the street will hit again. The only disadvantage is the increase of playing 2 additional numbers within your betting group, which means bigger br and higher stoploss parameter.
Second point, I am have been trying several times to get a fix on the 4 best streets and it is not working for me. I am finding that hot repeating streets through virtual selection go cold quickly in actual play. Also, the 18 games virtual watch as you suggested cannot be fixed, because in some scenarios, its best to wait 10-12 spins for the 4 best, but i am looking at session right now, it took 14 spins for the first repeat. I dont know maybe that 14 spin session is an indication to not play this system with any of these methods at the moment. The table isnt qualified. So, i need more definitive rules for selecting the 4 best streets. In theory is sounds very practical, because it gives you great balance, as though you are playing 3 dozens but with only a 3rd of the numbers and you dont have to worry about selecting the sleeper dozen.
Maybe its better to select the best dozens through virtual selection but then thats the same as the 4 best streets but maybe a little worst, because the 4 best streets is more in line with the wheels clustering of hits.
Thanks for the encouragement, I certainly hope we get the answer here.
I think we need to a table prequalification parameter, that statistically is more in our favor.
Hermes, I also, agree that a -298 is quite high. A -130 is also high but I can live with that if the system is consistent. -50 would be most idea, but can we get a consistent profit is the question to me.
Another thought, it maybe more appropriate find the 4 hottest hitting streets regardless whether it is a repeat or not. That gives could potential extend the hot streak of the streets and shorten the game, rather than looking for the 4 hottest repeat streets.
I've been posting on both threads, the testing thread as well as this one. Where is TurboGenius, surely he can offer some insight into our discussion.
Bloom
I am posting this successful session, I wrote approach in a previous reply so that its successful attributes will be evaluated by others interested to isolate the most appropriate rules.
Evaluation: Hermes your -50 drawdown idea worked in this session. The highest point was -42. Also, after the last hit in spin 66 we had 92 units, prior to the -42 drawdown in spin 85.
Also, I had only one instance were D1 skipped more than 10 spins @ 11 spins.
Ok, I didnt start this session until the 8 spin when D1 occurred for the 1st time in spin 7. After reviewing this session and Turbos session. I think you can stay with any dozens and hedge yourself against a sleeper. It you start actual betting once you receive 3 numbers from the dozen. I think I would perfer those 3 numbers to not occur in a custer and not extended to far apart. Maybe not within 5 spins and not past 20 spins. So, the ranges is 6 to 15 or 20 spins, then start with those numbers. That would have improved this session.
Also, i think i would increase the unit by one in hermes method like turbo does when a street is cancelled, which means I might have to increse the stoploss a bite, not sure.
Also, if a street # hits, while playing session and then the street hits again, I will continue to play that street number to hit. ie. 10,10 hit,11, now play 11 to hit.
Playing D1 only
Session 5 Table 3: 1/2/08 using Hermes progression method
1, 29
2, 22
3 0
4 18
5 33
6 20
7 5
8 17 5/1u -1
9 31 s -2
10 19 s -3
11 0 s -4
12 26 s -5
13 23 s -6
14 33 s -7
15 15 s -8
16 29 s -9
17 27 s -10
18 12 5,12/2u -12
19 31 s -14
20 6 5,12/2u, k5 -16
21 7 12/1u -17
22 12 7,12/2u, 12h -19+36= 17
23 5 7/1u -1
24 12 5,7/2u -3
25 10 5,7,12/3u, k12 -6
26 0 5,7/2u -8
27 21 s -10
28 36 s -12
29 33 s -14
30 33 s -16
31 35 s -18
32 20 s -20
33 11 s -22
34 21 s -24
35 34 s -26
36 20 s -28
37 11 s -30
38 6 s, k5, +1 -32
39 3 7/2u -34
40 7 3,7/2u, 7h -38+72=34
41 28 3/1u -1
42 20 s -2
43 35 s -3
44 34 s -4
45 20 s -5
46 21 s -6
47 24 s -7
48 28 s -8
49 3 3/1u, 3h -9+36=27
End session: 17+34+27= 78u
Continue session
50, 15
51 0
52 2
53 28 2/1u -1
54 32 s -2
55 12 s -3
56 29 2,12/2u -5
57 28 s -7
58 30 s -9
59 10 s, k12 -11
60 20 2/1u -12
61 29 s -13
62 6 2,6/2u -15
63 26 s -17
64 19 s -19
65 3 s, k2 -21
66 6 6/1u, 6h -22+36= 14 (total 92u)
67 34
68 0
69 30
70 7
71 2 7/1u -1
72 15 2,7/2u -3
73 21 s -5
74 6 s -7
75 5 2,6,7/3u, k6 -10
76 6 2,7/2u -12
77 18 s -14
78 11 s -15
79 17 2,7,11/3u -18
80 19 s -21
81 20 s -24
82 6 s -27
83 28 s, +1 -30
84 0 2,7,11/6u -36
85 11 s, 11h -42+72= 30
78+14+30=122u
86 30 2,7/2u -2
87 14 s -4
88 5 s -6
89 3 2,5,7/3u, k2 -9
90 24 5,7/2u -11
91 13 s -13
92 2 s -15, killed#2
93 36 s -17
94 14 s -19
95 35 s -21
96 8 s, k7 -23
97 5 5/1u, 5h -24+36= 12
122+12=134u
Bloom
Ok, I've applied my new evaluation to the next session.
Session summary: 28+48+52= 128, highest drawdown= -24
Much improve results. I just combining to good of Turbo with the good of Hermes.
Session 6 Table 3: 2/1/08
Hermes Progression Method playing D1
1, 5
2 13, 5
3 10 5,10
4 26,
5 32,
6 25,
7 3, 3,5,10
8 15,
9 30,
10 19,
11 27,
12 35
13 8, (3,5,8,10)
14 25
15 0, (3,5,8,10), start bet here
16 16, (3,5,8,10) +1 -4
17 10, (3,5,8,10)+1, h10 -8+36=28
18 32, (3,5,8)+1 -3
19 7, (3,5,8)+1, c8 -6
20 26, (3,5)+2 -10 or -8
21 31, (3,5)+2 -14 or -10
22 11, (3,5)+2 -18 or -12
23 5, (3,5,11)+2, h5 -24+72=48 or -15+36=21
24 22, (3,11)+1 -2
25 1, (3,11)+1, c3 -4
26 20, 11+2 -6
27 28, 11+2 -8
28 22, 11+2 -10
29 3, 11+2, c3(2x) -12
30 32, 11+2 -14
31 28, 11+2 -16
32 32, 11+2 -18
33 11, 11+2, h11 -20+72=52
Session end: 28+48+52= 128, highest drawdown= -24
Bloom
Just as I thought with the new evaluation approach, we need a higher stoploss, maybe -100, if I do increase the units per bet after a cancelled street, but if I increase only to maintain at least a +6 unit minnimum gain, then my drawdown in the last 2 sessions would be loss, however, proportionally my units won is decreased also.
What is most important, probably decreasing the stoploss risk, while maintaining a positive profit. I will do one more session, with the same method.
Start new session on next spin
1, 29
2, 22
3 13
4 27
5 28
6 13
7 4
8 2 4
9 9 2,4
10 12 2,4,9
11 27 2,4,9,12
12 27 2,4,9,12
13 14 2,4,9,12
14 17 2,4,9,12, start here
15 24 (2,4,9,12) +1 -4
16 2 (2,4,9,12) +1,h2 -8+36= 28
17 24 (4,9,12) +1 -3
18 13 (4,9,12) +1 -6
19 12 (4,9,12) +1, h12 -9+36= 27
20 12 (4,9)+1 -2
21 8 (4,9,12) +1, c9 -5
22 36 (4,12) +2, -9
23 20 (4,12) +2 -13
24 28 (4,12) +2, -17
25 17 (4,12) +2 -21
26 36 (4,12) +2 -25
27 25 (4,12) +2, -29
28 28 (4,12) +2, -33
29 32 (4,12) +2, -37
30 21 (4,12) +2, -41
31 16 (4,12) +2, -45
32 6 (4,12) +2, c4 -49
33 4 12+3 -52
34 15 12+3 -55
35 33 12+3 -58
36 2 12+3 -61
37 19 (2,12)+3 -67
38 17 (2,12)+3 -73
40 7 (2,12)+3 -79
41 12 (2,12)+3, h12 -85+96= 11
Summary: 28+27+11= 66 units, highest drawdown -85
End session with 2 cancelled streets and one number remaining from a street that has already hit. The other street hit 2x. The odds are not in our favor to continue in my opinion.
Bloom
Please let me know if you have any better ideas or if this approach can be improved. I'm liking my results now.
Start new session on next spin
1, 25
2 15
3 36
4 20
5 22
6 28
7 16
8 16
9 36
10 25, D1 sleeping
11 10
12 28, 10
13 3
14 31, 3, 10
15 32
16 5, 3,5,10, start here
17 2 (3,5,10) +1, c3 -3
18 21 (5,10) +2 -7
19 33 (5,10) +2 -11
20 10 (5,10) +2, h10 -15+72= 57, good stopwin point in 20 spins or 4 bets
21 14 5+1 -1
22 2 5+1, c3(2x) -2
23 10 5 +1 -3
24 4 (5,10)+1, c5 -5, may need to end session here
25 21 10 +2 -7
26 10 10 +2, h10 -9+72= 63
End session: 57+63= 120u, highest drawdown= -15 within 26 spins.
Bloom
Hey guys, I've been watching this thread closely because it's the system that I've been using the last couple weeks and it has been successful for me. I do appreciate your testing and discussions - please continue to share your findings if possible.
Anyway, I'm new here and I may not have a complete grasp of everything. Also, I don't pretend to consider myself some kind of roulette professional and I'm humbled by the discussions you all have here, but I just wanted to share what I have been doing in case it helps in any way, which I'm not sure since you guys seem to look at every angle. Besides, I've only had 3 sessions with this system in a real casino, but I've also done a lot of virtual testing with numbers posted on this site.
Yes, there are some sessions in my testing that just seem to go wrong. Streets keep cancelling themselves right before your numbers hit over and over. When that happens, I think I just need to either abandon that dozen for a while or just walk away and come back later.
However, I have found that to leverage those sleeping dozens at times, it really does pay off to play each dozen individually at the same time (or at least start on a dozen that seems to be hitting often). Since I only play at a live table, I have to keep track of the numbers in my head. Luckily, so far, I have not had a problem with remembering my bets even though I do not use a pen and paper, but I started to use my chips to help me remember.
Basically, I lay out 12 chips in front of me to represent each street within each dozen, like this...
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
The first row represents the first dozen and each chip in that row represents the four streets. If a street gets killed, then I remove a chip, which also tells me which level of bet I'm on since I use the progression to raise the bets by 1 unit when a street is killed. For example, if the third street in the first dozen and the second street in the second dozen is killed, then my chips look like this...
OO_O
O_OO
OOOO
This also tells me I'm on level 2 for the 1st and 2nd dozen.
Also, before I go into a sample dataset, here is some criteria I follow:
- I treat each dozen separately
- I raise the bets in a particular dozen by 1 when a street is killed within that dozen
- When a number hits, I replace my "reminder" chips on the table to signify I am back to level 1, but I carryforward any numbers in that dozen that were still "open". For example, if I'm on level three and betting 3 units on 2,12 and 12 hits, then I go back to level 1 and continue betting 1 unit on number 2.
Okay, I don't know if any of that helps anyone, but I'll go through the dataset above that Bloom used that netted him 66 units with a drawdown of -85. Remember though, playing all three dozens may require a higher drawdown, but your chances of winning increase as well. Here we go:
(D3L2-15,16 means Dozen3 Level2 Bet on 15 & 16)
(H13@L1 means Number 13 hit while betting 1 unit)
1 29 D3L1-29..................................................(1) -1
2 22 D2L1-22/D3L1-29....................................(2) -3
3 13 D2L1-13,22/D3L1-29................................(3) -6
4 27 D2L1-13,22/D3L1-27,29............................(4) -10
5 28 D2L1-13,22/D3L2-27,K29..........................(4) -14
6 13 D2L1-22,H13@L1/D3L2-27.........................(3) -17+36= +19
7 4 D1L1-4/D2L1-22/D3L2-27..........................(4) +15
8 2 D1L1-2,4/D2L1-22/D3L2-27.......................(5) +10
9 9 D1L1-2,4,9/D2L1-22/D3L2-27....................(6) +4
10 12 D1L1-2,4,9,12/D2L1-22/D3L2-27................(7) -3
11 27 D1L1-2,4,9,12/D2L1-22/H27@L2.................(5) -8+72= +64
12 27 D1L1-2,4,9,12/D2L1-22/D3L1-27................(6) +58
13 14 D1L1-2,4,9,12/D2L1-14,22/D3L1-27............(7) +51
14 17 D1L1-2,4,9,12/D2L1-14,17,22/D3L1-27.......(8) +43
15 24 D1L1-2,4,9,12/D2L2-14,17,K22/D3L1-27......(9) +34
16 2 D1L1-4,9,12,H2@L1/D2L2-14,17/D3L1-27.....(8) +26+36= +62
17 24 D1L1-4,9,12/D2L2-14,17/D3L1-27...............(8) +54
18 13 D1L1-4,9,12/D2L3-17,K14/D3L1-27.............(7) +47
19 12 D1L1-4,9,H12@L1/D2L3-17/D3L1-27............(6) +41+36= +78
20 12 D1L1-4,9,12/D2L3-17/D3L1-27....................(7) +71
21 8 D1L2-4,12,K9/D2L3-17/D3L1-27..................(8) +63
22 36 D1L2-4,12/D2L3-17/D3L1-27,36..................(9) +54
23 20 D1L2-4,12/D2L3-17,20/D3L1-27,36.............(12) +42
24 28 D1L2-4,12/D2L3-17,20/D3L1-27,28,36.........(13) +29
25 17 D1L2-4,12/D2L1-20,H17@L3/D3L1-27,28,36..(8) +21+108= +129
26 36 D1L2-4,12/D2L1-20/D3L1-27,28,H36@L1.......(7) +122+36= +158
27 25 D1L2-4,12/D2L1-20/D3L2-28,K27.................(7) +151
28 28 D1L2-4,12/D2L1-20/H28@L2........................(5) +146+72= +218
29 32 D1L2-4,12/D2L1-20/D3L1-32........................(6) +212
30 21 D1L2-4,12/D2L2-NoBet,K20/D3L1-32............(5) +207
31 16 D1L2-4,12/D2L2-16/D3L1-32........................(7) +200
32 6 D1L3-12,K4/D2L2-16/D3L1-32.....................(6) +194
33 4 D1L3-12/D2L2-16/D3L1-32..........................(6) +188
34 15 D1L3-12/D2L2-15,16/D3L1-32......................(8) +180
35 33 D1L3-12/D2L2-15,16/D3L2-NoBet,K32..........(7) +173
36 2 D1L3-2,12/D2L2-15,16/D3L2-NoBet.............(10) +163
37 19 D1L3-2,12/D2L2-15,16/D3L2-NB (19 dead)...(10) +153
38 17 D1L3-2,12/D2L3-15,K16/D3L2-NB................(9) +144
40 7 D1L3-2,12/D2L3-15/D3L2-NB (7 dead)..........(9) +135
41 12 D1L1-2,H12@L3/D2L3-15/D3L2-NB................(4) +131+108= +239
Summary: +239 units Highest drawdown -17
Anyway, that's how I've been playing the last few sessions. I don't keep track of all the above information in my head - just the numbers - the chips on the table show me which streets are killed and the level of each dozen. I'd love to improve on this if possible, so I look forward to any further testing you guys do. Thanks!
Cheers!
Krash
Thanks Krash, this is very helpful for me. I do not have a lot of live casino experience. I do believe that playing all 3 dozens as a separate game is a stronger strategy than playing one dozen. The only disadvantage is keeping tracking and a potentially higher downturn. But smart tracking techniques which you have brilliant shared with us makes it more appealing to me now. Ofcourse, a higher br is important. I'm thinking maybe a stoploss of -150. The greatest downturn in your version of the dataset was from 194 in spin 32 to 135 in spin 40 = -59. Therefore, I would maintain at least a stoploss of -100, possibly as high as -150, which is still easy to recover.
Also, for improvement to this version, we can apply the wait method I've been using for one dozen. By tracking the first 5 non-repeat spins, then start placing the actual bets in the method, then will reduce drawdowns at the beginning of the session and increase the unit gain potential on the first hit.
Bloom
Hi everyone,
I'm pretty new here and look forward to working with you all. :)
I'd like to thank you Turbo genius for posting this system :thumbsup:
I have thought of another way to play this using the whole table and instead of the dozen, using 10 sets of 3 numbers(neighbours) from the wheel:
Numbers:
32 - 15 - 19
4 - 21 - 2
25 - 17 - 34
6 - 27 - 13
36 - 11 - 30
8 - 23 - 10
5 - 24 - 16
33 - 1 - 20
14 - 31 - 9
22 - 18 - 29
7 - 28 - 12
35 - 3 - 26
Now we write these numbers on a piece of paper and when a number is spun we write that number infront of the group thats
its from:
Example:
number spun is 1 and we add a chip to number 1 on the table.
32 - 15 - 19
4 - 21 - 2
25 - 17 - 34
6 - 27 - 13
36 - 11 - 30
8 - 23 - 10
5 - 24 - 16
33 - 1 - 20 1
14 - 31 - 9
22 - 18 - 29
7 - 28 - 12
35 - 3 - 26
Now say the next number spun is 30 we now mark 30 in its group the same:
32 - 15 - 19
4 - 21 - 2
25 - 17 - 34
6 - 27 - 13
36 - 11 - 30 30
8 - 23 - 10
5 - 24 - 16
33 - 1 - 20 1
14 - 31 - 9
22 - 18 - 29
7 - 28 - 12
35 - 3 - 26
Now say the next number spun is 33.. its in the same group 1 which it kills 1 so we cross number 1 off then take the chip of number 1 and add 1 unit to all other numbers being played.
32 - 15 - 19
4 - 21 - 2
25 - 17 - 34
6 - 27 - 13
36 - 11 - 30 30
8 - 23 - 10
5 - 24 - 16
33 - 1 - 20 X
14 - 31 - 9
22 - 18 - 29
7 - 28 - 12
35 - 3 - 26
Now say if the next number spun is 30.. thats a repeat and we reset all the chips being bet on (even the number that won)
back to 1 and carry on.
Here is my first 4 results playing at dublin bet and with dublin bet numbers... game 3 did'nt do so well at the start but recovered
well might need a stop loss:
GAME 1:
spin# #spun #Killed/repeat u's played u's played on each# Bankroll
1 31 1u 1u 499u
2 32 2u 1u 497u
3 6 3u 1u 494u
4 21 4u 1u 490u
5 9 k31 6u 2u 484u
6 13 8u 2u 476u
7 21 21r 4u 1u 544u
8 16 5u 1u 539u
9 19 k32 8u 2u 531u
10 27 k13 9u 3u 522u
11 3 12u 3u 510u
12 31 15u 3u 495u
13 12 18u 3u 477u
14 9 9r 585u
=========================================================
GAME 2:
spin# #spun #Killed/repeat u's played u's played on each# Bankroll
1 7 1u 1u 499u
2 4 2u 1u 497u
3 26 3u 1u 494U
4 16 4u 1u 490u
5 8 5u 1u 485u
6 35 k26 8u 2u 477u
7 4 4r 4u 1u 541u
8 1 5u 1u 536u
9 23 k8 8u 2u 528u
10 22 10u 2u 518u
11 31 12u 2u 506u
12 11 14u 2u 492u
13 1 1r 7u 1u 557u
14 27 8u 1u 549u
15 5 k16 14u 2u 535u
16 4 4r 607u
=========================================================
GAME 3:
spin# #spun #Killed/repeat u's played u's played on each# Bankroll
1 13 1u 1u 499u
2 31 2u 1u 497u
3 33 3u 1u 494u
4 27 k13 4u 2u 490u
5 29 6u 2u 484u
6 12 8u 2u 476u
7 9 k31 9u 3u 467u
8 1 k33 8u 4u 459u
9 13 12u 4u 447u
10 15 16u 4u 431u
11 1 20u 4u 411u
12 16 24u 4u 387u
13 27 k13 20u 5u 362u
14 26 30u 5u 332u
15 20 k1 30u 6u 302u
16 19 k15 28u 7u 274u
17 29 k12 24u 8u 250u
18 36 32u 8u 218u
19 6 40u 8u 178u
20 29 29r 8u 1u 458u
21 36 36r 8u 1u 486u
22 13 k6 18u 2u 468u
23 8 20u 2u 448u
24 20 22u 2u 426u
25 8 8r 11u 1u 487u
26 8 8r 11u 1u 512u
27 4 12u 1u 500u
28 32 13u 1u 487u
29 4 13u 1u 510u
30 3 k26 24u 2u 486u
31 36 36r 558u
==================================================
GAME 4:
spin# #spun #Killed/repeat u's played u's played on each# Bankroll
1 11 1u 1u 499u
2 29 2u 1u 497u
3 1 3u 1u 494u
4 32 4u 1u 490u
5 35 5u 1u 485u
6 34 6u 1u 479u
7 0 6u 1u 473u
8 7 7u 1u 466u
9 19 k32 12u 2u 454u
10 7 7r 6u 1u 520u
11 15 7u 1u 513u
12 16 8u 1u 505u
13 25 k34 4u 2u 491u
14 8 6u 2u 475u
15 23 k8 6u 3u 454u
16 11 11r 2u 1u 555u
17 7 7r 591u
=========================================================
I
MJP
Make that 12 sets of 3 numbers :-[ lol
Sorry guys, but the progression that i have suggested in the posts above «stage progression» has failed. Last session the downfall was -1000units...then i stoped. >:(
However the trubos bet selection looks interesting, but we need to find a better progression or the time to jump in to bet.
QuoteMake that 12 sets of 3 numbers :-[ lol
Welcome the forum my friend. I see you started up the 4 sector system on here. Great!
I Like your variation. I would use a stoploss of -100 on this one.
I would have let game 3 go on spin 11 or 12.
Thanks MJP78.
Bloom
HI Bloom thanks for the welcome!
Looking at my results now if i just recorded on paper till the first repeat then started betting things look like they would have gone better in game 3 ...think i'l test it that way some more... thanks :thumbsup:
As for the 4 sectors im still working on improving the progression and a different way to play the numbers should be done soon!
Cheers mate.
MJP
We got forwards thanks to bloomone, Krash and MJP 78. The idea of MJP 78 is very universal and interesting. I tried the 4 best streets and you are right bloomone it need lot of spins to decide which one are to play but it is different if you mark the most coming dozen. Mostly in 12 spins you know the winner. It is rewarding. I will test the MJP's approach with my progression.
Krash, what's wrong with paper and pen? I didn't think bring a young secretary with you, just prepared form and pen. It is allowed in all casinos to use. We have to lower the stress during the game and keep good bookkeeping. It is funny but I never got to -50 during testing on live roulette numbers. I have to find some difficult one next time. Good sign is that everybody is winning with that system.
Hermes
QuoteHI Bloom thanks for the welcome!
Looking at my results now if i just recorded on paper till the first repeat then started betting things look like they would have gone better in game 3 ...think i'l test it that way some more... thanks :thumbsup:
As for the 4 sectors im still working on improving the progression and a different way to play the numbers should be done soon!
Cheers mate.
MJP
Wow, you're right that, looks better. Each session would be a plus unit gain
Bloom
QuoteHI Bloom thanks for the welcome!
Looking at my results now if i just recorded on paper till the first repeat then started betting things look like they would have gone better in game 3 ...think i'l test it that way some more... thanks :thumbsup:
As for the 4 sectors im still working on improving the progression and a different way to play the numbers should be done soon!
Cheers mate.
MJP
MJP, I did one session with both of your variations. Your original variation was a significant grind with a drawdown high of -253.
The 2nd proposed version faired better, but still needs some touch-up somewhere. I noticed where spin 8 and 9 cancelled each other. I'm sure not I following all your rules here. I would be interested in any improvement ideas.
MJP Turbo Neighbors System Test
Session 1: table 3, 1/8/08
MJP's first method
1, 1 -1
2 3 -3
3 29 -6
4 28 -10
5 13 -15
6 32 -21
7 4 -28
8 6 c13+2 -36
9 13 c6+3 -54
10 2 c4+4 -84
11 15 c32+5 -128
12 10 -188
13 1 r, (1,3,29,28,2,15,10)+1 -253+180= -73
14 4 c2, (1,3,29,28,15,10,4)+2 -7
15 13 (1,3,29,28,15,10,4)+2 -21
16 18 c29, (1,3,28,15,10,4,18)+3 -35
17 9 (1,3,28,15,10,4,18,9)+3 -56
18 11 (1,3,28,15,10,4,18,9,11)+3 -80
19 3 (1,3,28,15,10,4,18,9,11)+3, h3 -107+108= 1u-73= -72
MJP Turbo Neighbors System Test
Session 1: table 3, 1/8/08
MJP new method
1, 1
2 3
3 29
4 28
5 13
6 32
7 4
8 6 c13+2
9 13 c6+3
10 2 c4+4
11 15 c32+5
12 10
13 1 r, (1,3,29,28,2,15,10)+1
14 4 c2, (1,3,29,28,15,10,4)+2 -7
15 13 (1,3,29,28,15,10,4)+2 -21
16 18 c29, (1,3,28,15,10,4,18)+3 -35
17 9 (1,3,28,15,10,4,18,9)+3 -56
18 11 (1,3,28,15,10,4,18,9,11)+3 -80
19 3 (1,3,28,15,10,4,18,9,11)+3, h3 -107+108= 1u
20 10
Bloom
I like the idea of playing each dozen separately yet simultaneously. I wonder if there is a way to incorporate a progression on the overall betting total to guarantee a win on a hit. Could be a bit tough though.
Keith
That's a good idea. The most numbers one could have working is twelve. But you're right....it would take a computer program to keep track of how much to bet. Hmmmm.......or maybe not!!
Sam
Sam
I don't think the tracking would be too difficult. A white erase board might be better though! LOL
Maybe a mini laminated layout, where you use an erasable marker, might do the trick.
That's kind of what I was thinking as well. It could be done. All you need to do is have the numbers out there and just "dot" them as they come up. And erase the street when they are eliminated.
QuoteI like the idea of playing each dozen separately yet simultaneously. I wonder if there is a way to incorporate a progression on the overall betting total to guarantee a win on a hit. Could be a bit tough though.
So are you proposing to have up to 4 separate progression, D1, D2, D3 and overall? If so, how would we setup an overall progression?
Bloom
cp
I tried the grease pencil or dry erase pen and they work well if you keep your hand off them while writing. I get sloppy and smudge things up a bit. Still a workable idea.
bloom
I'd like a progression which pays my previous loses + my bets that lose on the winning bet and still return a profit. Something like: Total loss + current bet/35 or so.
Sam
@ bloom - I was thinking of an overall progression. I'm sure it could be done, but it could get complicated. You may need a chart just to see how much you have lost overall and divide by 36 to get your next play.
@ sam - I was thinking the same thing. If you got a pre-printed board of numbers, it would be easier for sure.
Well maybe you could use your br in chips on the table as an indicator.
starting br of 500u
section your br chips into 5 groups of 100
whenever you lose a stack you divide 100/36=approx. 3u
Add 3u to each betting games existing bet levels.
Bloom
Not a bad idea...will have to think about that a little.
Gentlemen.........
I need something that doesn't force me to think. That is why on the systems that always worked for me (Gamlet and VLS) there was nothing to think about--just count or read.
As I've said, I'm a bit ADD and I will sit there with my head in the clouds when I should be thinking.
Sam
I agree with you Sam. I would like to know how to capitalize on this phenomenon.
OK, for tcs and others like me, I'm trying to boil down a nice simple version; maybe something like this;
watch first 15 spins.
See which dozen is getting most hits. If it's unclear, wait another 6 spins.
Once you have 3 numbers at least in your most-active dozen, start to bet @ 1 unit per number.
A hit on a number in a street where a bet number is, kills that street. Add one unit to the remaining numbers you are betting on.
Keep a running tally of drawdown as spins progress, against +36 / +72 / +108, and when your drawdown gets within 12 points of the potential win, increase your bets by one unit.
Set a stop loss of, say, 50 units.
Set a stop-win of 4 hits or 100 units, whichever comes first.
How would you handle a change of dealer? Sometimes on jebet the dealer changes after 22 spins, just as I'm getting set up!! I'm never sure whether to stop and start a new sheet with the new dealer, or just carry on.
Not a bad idea studyolic...as for the dealer change, I have not incorporated that into the equation. I don't know if dealer signature is as prevalent here as it would be in the wheel-based system.
Studyolic, this is vey close to the way I am testing now with the wait several spins for a dominant dozen to appear. I would add that maybe if one is to play all 3 dozens, to apply the same virtual play for each, so that you may offset when to get in and get out, but you have a good change of playing all dozens when they are in either a moderate or hot cycle, rather than a cold cycle. Keep testing your stop loss of 50 u for one dozen, I think it might need to be a little higher. I like your thinking. We are very similar conclusions.
I agree with cps10, because this is not a wheel based system the dealer change is not much of a factor. You must focus on the random dispersion of the board.
Bloom
Random dispersion is the key. I had a session with the TG 4#s that was rocky at best. I am trying to figure out where to take this system, as it was working very well at first, and in fact, had a nice rise to 200 units at one point, which might have been the stopping point. But I have seen spots where it has gone down over 1,000 units, and if you get in at that bad point, you are in some trouble.
Yes, shorter sessions, dozen qualification and a stop loss level is most important. Actually I think the stoploss is more important than the stop win.
Bloom
I agree about stoploss. I think people who do well consistently have an iron discipline to walk away when their stoploss is hit, but also STOP WHEN AHEAD at each session. ie they have specific targets or boundaries for each session. But maybe this belongs in the Money Management forum?
I've been mostly playing and testing this method for the last few weeks and just wanted to share my approach to this system. I do not have any test data or actual results to show you, but I'll try to explain what I've seen so far. Basically, I'm going to discuss my approach to this method rather than actual results (which have been good so far).
I play on an American wheel (for real money) and usually test on Dublinbet using their preview games mode. I usually bring 300 units to the table when playing for real, but try to play with only 200 units each session. The majority of my limited sessions only needed a 100 unit bankroll though, but you will get a bad session sometimes and I'm still trying to determine my own stoploss (probably around 200 units for me). Also, I only have $5 minimum tables available to me, so my unit is 1$ and each round of betting is $5 minimum.
As I approach the table, I first notice the display and try to determine my first action from the past spins. Some of you may want to wait for triggers as mentioned in some of the other posts if it gives you more confidence, but I usually see what I need on the display and begin play from there. Plus, I play all 3 dozens, so I usually find a play right away.
Anyway, I use the display to gain a confidence level in each dozen. If I see a repeat in a particular dozen, it is like a clean slate for me and I may give it a higher confidence level than the other dozens. I also note if any streets have been killed from the past few spins, and if so, then I advance that dozen up a level - however, I may not increase the bet according to the higher level until I hit on that dozen and start at a clean slate.
For example, if I approach a table and see this on the display, this is how I may play it:
1
7
0
13
15
2
30
17
15
10
27
26
First Dozen: 1,7,2,10
From this, I will kill the 1-2-3 street and begin play on the 7 and 10 with medium confidence. The killed street would put this dozen on level 2 betting, but I'll check my other bets before deciding on 1 or 2 units.
Second Dozen: 13,15,17,15
I like seeing a repeater here because it gives me the feeling of having a clean slate. From this, I would start fresh and start betting on the 13. Also, when a number hits on a dozen, I'll usually keep playing any open numbers remaining in that dozen, so technically if I was playing, then the 17 would still be open for me, so I may play the 17 as well to begin, but would have low confidence in my betting until I get a hit on this dozen.
Third Dozen: 30,27,26
From this, I will kill the 25-26-27 street and begin play on the 30 with medium confidence.
So, I feel I have enough numbers to begin play, so I take my $5 minimum and look for 5 bets. I would probably begin with 7,10,13,17,30. Even though the 1st and 3rd dozens would technically be on level 2, I want to start slow until I am fully "in the cycle" (I'll talk more about this in a bit), especially since I have low confidence in the second dozen - I don't want to get caught in a hole right away, so I start low and wait for a couple hits. Once the hits start to come, then I'll play as normal by raising my bets by 1 unit after each killed street within each dozen.
Anyway, during the session, there will be highs and lows. I've learned to trust the system to get me through the lows, but it gets difficult when you see your stack dropping as you wait for a hit. Sometimes, a session just goes bad though. Sometimes you will have a dozen reach level 4 and you'll bet on it for a long time, then raise it by 1 unit to cover previous bets and it still won't hit.. and then the street gets killed. That is pretty depressing. (When that happens, I just start again with that dozen - sometimes I'll start betting the level+1, but other times, I'll raise the bets in another dozen +1 to cover the bets I put into this dozen until this dozen hits.)
Sometimes a dozen will hit level 2 while you are playing a number on the 3 remaining streets and then the dozen will sleep for a while. Putting 2 units on 3 numbers for many spins also can put a dent in your bankroll.
These are just some examples of the "lows" that come. Once you play for a while, you will notice that there will be a cycle of highs and lows here. There will be times when numbers are hitting pretty often, you're getting to level 3 and they are hitting as well, you're not having to play a lot of bets at once and your bankroll isn't dropping as fast - this is when the system is really working for you.
And then... it seems after a while, things just start to slow down. Either you had a few numbers just hit or a few streets were just killed and your bets have slowed down to only a few numbers. Fewer bets can be a good thing unless you have a couple dozens at a high level and you're waiting for 1-2 numbers to hit. When this happens, it is comparable to when you first approach the table and you have to let the wheel work through the low and gain some numbers to get back "in the cycle" of things. THIS is where I'm trying to learn to stop playing. THIS is where I usually have a profit, but I'm chasing one or two numbers (that may be in level 4) and I'm waiting for a big hit. THIS is where it's probably best to just walk away. BUT, being new to this, I still have trouble walking away and I keep playing for that one last payout and I end up losing some of my profits. I'm getting better at recognizing when this happens, but sometimes if I still have plenty of time, I'll plow through this "low" point and eventually catch the cycle again.
What I'm trying to say is that you may have a stoploss and/or a stopwin, but sometimes you need a "stoptrigger" or a "stopmoment" such as this. When things start to slow down and you have a small profit already, just walk away instead of getting caught up in the "low" moments.
Anyway, I realize I'm just rambling, but I thought I would share this in case it helps anyone. I'm certainly no expert on this and there's probably many ways I can improve what I do, but there's plenty of suggestions already posted. Check it out and have a great day.
Krash
hi turbo, just want to say glad to see you around. :)
Thanks Ray
Hi guys
I've been following this thread since it started and have been testing the method all along. Firstly, I think Turbo got the basics spot on first up. The variation that I have found works for me is this:
I play all three dozens
I play exactly like turbo described except:
After a win, I wait until that entire dozen has been cancelled before I start playing it again.
I've tested roughly 4000 spins this way from Amburgo and am up 4800 units. I'm not saying there arent losing sessions, and I;m not saying that this is it, but it seems to be doing quite well.
I've also been playing at dublinbet with my test account and have taken it from $563 (Sorry couldnt find the euro sign on the keyboard) to as at now (yes I'm playing while I type) $948 using .50 chips over about an hour a day over the last 6 days.
And for TCS and others, it is simple to track.
I have a spreadsheet open with
123
456
789
101112
131415
161718
192021
222324
252627
282930
313233
343536
Down one column, if a number show in one of the columns, I put a 'b' in the cell next to the column. If the line is killed, I put a k in the cell next to the 'b'. When the dozen is full, I wipe it and know Im ready to bet on that dozen again.
Simple as the beer ad in oz says (not quite but close enough)
you can do it watching tv
you can do it milking a cow
as a matter of fact I'm doing it now
Just one footnote:
I've noticed there are quite often multiple wins within one dozen, so maybe a test on continuing to play any unhit lines within a dozen until they are all killed could be warranted as well.
Cheers
Thanks Iwonder
Good to hear someone else is testing the system. I like your spreadsheet idea.
Sam
I like it too. Would love to see a test session on a spreadsheet if you have one available so I can figure out how to play it.
@ Iwonder, seems like you have found a very simplistic way of isolating all the information. I with TCS & Cps10, I would like to see your spreadsheet as well.
@Krash, Great Work, thanks for continuing to share your results.
Bloom
QuoteAfter a win, I wait until that entire dozen has been cancelled before I start playing it again.
There is no wrong way to play this, but I've noticed in my testing that carrying forward any open numbers in a dozen after one of the numbers hit has proven to be very beneficial in most cases.
For example, if I'm in dozen 3 and playing numbers 26 & 36 at level 3 (3 units on each) and 36 hits. Then I start back at level 1, but I immediately begin placing 1 unit on 26. Many times those numbers carried forward hit soon after, but even if another number on that street comes, then that just means the street is killed and the dozen is advanced to the next level that much sooner. Again, there's really no wrong way to play it, but this has worked for me.
Anyway, I wish I could present actual test data for you guys from all the testing I've done, but I haven't been tracking the numbers in the casino while I'm playing or testing on Dublinbet. I can say that I've had 4 real sessions using this method and have been profitable from this system each time. I usually play about 2 hours using 1 unit = $1 and have made $155, $290, $150 and $285 using this system. The last amount happened in about 30 minutes because I was just having one of those good sessions from the start. It was the first time I set a stopwin (at $250) and I actually stuck to it and walked away.
I'll try to recount what happened, but without all the numbers from the session, I'm not sure if it will help you. Here goes anyway:
As I approached the table, this was on the display (with the top number being the most recent) from what I can remember:
0
26
5
3
11
19
35
4
36
15
1
15
19
Dozen 1: 5,3,11,4,1
I killed street 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 and started betting 3 units on 11
Dozen 2: 19,15,15,19
I liked seeing double repeats because it gives me a lot of confidence to bet normally on this dozen.
Dozen 3: 26,35,36
I killed street 34-35-36 and bet 2 units on 26
I don't remember what all the next numbers were, but some numbers began to show in dozen 2 and then 26 HIT (in the third dozen) with 2 units on it, I then reset dozen 3. Then a few spins later, 11 HIT with 3 units on it.
At one point, I was playing 16 and 24 in the second dozen at level 2 and 16 HIT, so I reset that dozen, carried forward 24 and it hit a couple spins later. Soon after, I had number 36 at level 3 and it hit again.
At that point, I was +285 and I quickly cashed in and left. I had plenty of time to keep playing and I was hitting everything, but I was happy.
Thanks to all of you for your posts and tests - it has been very helpful. Sure, I have test sessions that aren't like this, but so far in real play, it has been nice. Anyway, I'll try to keep better track of my own testing to share with you all. Thanks again!
Krash
Guys
I don't really see any point in posting my test spreadsheets. When I'm testing, my spreadsheet is really a carbon copy of TCS's manual sheets. B1 etc to signify the commencement of a bet and K1 etc to signify a kill. The only difference is that I will have B1 etc K1 etc with no unit amount bet as I am waiting for all lines in the dozen to be killed.
When I am playing, I only record like posted previously. I list all the lines down one column of a spreadsheet and if I am playing, I put a B in the column next to the appropriate line and a K in the column next to the B next to the lines that have been killed. That's it I don't record numbers that have come out or anything. I can tell how many units I should be playing by the number of Ks within a dozen. If I have 4 Ks within a dozen, I delete all the Ks and Bs so I know I'm ready to start again on that dozen.
I am a believer in the idea that once I am playing for real money, recording everything about a session is not warranted. At the end of the day, If Im willing to put my hard earned on the table, I have already satisfied myself through prior testing that the risk and return is satisfactory to me. If I feel the need to be monitoring every minor fluctuation to see if I can improve a system, then I'm not ready to play it for real.
So, when playing for real, I only record where I am up to and let the account balance tell me the rest. If it's more than when I started, that's all I need to know
Cheers
Studyolic you must study all my replies on this thread. You must be studyolic, for sure, but your idea is good. Turbo's 4 x 4 system has a merit. Something on the level like Addonay' Half a Moon system. Both are excellent. I tried them both even on RNGs and won (but I don't know for how long would be the winning streak?). The only danger would be if you started to bet on one most coming dozen which falls immediately a sleep for 26 spins and you bet and bet (Gauss Bell) like betting on red during a streak of 10 blacks. Probably it would be better to play the second best dozen. Example: 1st D came 12 times, 2nd D came 16 times, and 3rd D 22 times, then betting on the 2nd D would be the better choice.
Hermes
My first try of this system failed. Playing all three dozens with a bankroll of 500 pounds and playing with £2 chips my bankroll was gone in about an hour. Gosh a bankroll of several k will be needed to play this system to stand any chance. I tried some of turbo's other methods and came to the same conclusion , that is big bankrolls needed. I don't think this is a system i would play with any confidence.
Help I want to ask your RX cod added to the RX program, I tried but always error. Who would you please help to detail it .
Thank you very much