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Cards and Other Gambling => Cards and Other Gambling => Baccarat => Topic started by: John1234 on June 29, 2009, 03:15:07 PM

Title: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on June 29, 2009, 03:15:07 PM
I have deleted a few posts. I have done this for a few reasons...

1.) I presented the two plus capping idea and messed up with some instructions

2.) I have begun my testing on 3000 live shoes but I have tweaked the method. There has been one small change to the bet selection which has produced more winning shoes.
3.) I tweaked the method because it has to fit choppy shoes as well has streaky shoes.


Posts that will be coming soon...
-Most of the rules are still the same. I have all of the information saved on my computer. I just have to go back and edit some of the information. I will have the rules reposted at some point.  
-I will post example shoes
-After I make the next few posts I am not going to do anymore tweaking, I will only be here to explain the method. From that point on I will be testing and posting results. The only way I will change the method is if someone has a really good idea.

I have posted the Tweaked Method
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: sniper on June 29, 2009, 08:09:52 PM
Hello John1234,

Thanks for your baccarat system. We will work hard on this and make it profitable.

Regards
sniper
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on June 30, 2009, 02:34:42 AM
Good one John I wil ltest some when I can too I am so busy with work at the moment I harly got time to scratch myself :laugh: :blink:

Also can you show how a choppy shoe would play and so you dont play chops n ow i have a feeling coppy shoes will kill the BR and there are lots of choppy shoes to play
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: sniper on June 30, 2009, 07:56:45 AM
Hello John1234,

Thank you very much for your clear explanation and illustration. Your post is well done and educative. We will all try our level best to test out your baccarat system and make it a long term success.

Good Luck and Best Wishes.

sniper
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on June 30, 2009, 04:04:56 PM
Natural9- I am also busy so testing is hard for me to do as well. I have been trying to test some shoes at the end of the night. I will post a choppy shoe at some point. And as you said, a choppy shoe will kill the bankroll, but maybe there is a way to alter the method to perform betting in choppy shoes. I have a few ideas. I will post about one Idea that I have soon.

Sniper: Thank you...I think that it has a lot of potential for long term success however it needs a few tweaks.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on June 30, 2009, 06:36:50 PM
Update: The tweak to the method is working perfect. I am testing and everything is going to plan. I should have the details up soon. It is so simple to play to.

All of the shoes that I would lose on I am winning on and the shoes that I would win on, I am only winning fast on.

Most of the time I have been finishing the win goal midway through the shoe.


I will not get to post details until late tonight because I will be out till then.  


The tweak seems to adjust to the flow of the shoe and if it is too slow in adjusting then the tweak to the progression will make up for it. So now a choppy shoe is good for the method and a streaky shoe is even better.


Oh and I am sorry to anybody who did all of the reading in the posts that I deleted. I promise that I won't do it again.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on June 30, 2009, 11:14:12 PM
Here is the updated version of 2+capping with a delayed progression

First I will introduce the idea:

I originally started with the 3+capping method. The 3+capping method has been successful short term but I do not know about long term. I am not leaving the 3+capping idea behind, I am just putting it off to the side for now. I think I may have found a more effective and safer method. I don't know if anybody has come up with this method, but it is new to me.

Yesterday I posted the 2+capping idea but I had to remove the posts because I tweaked the method and I tweaked some of the rules to the progression. The 2+capping method provides more betting opportunities than the 3+capping method. This means that you have the opportunity to make your win goal faster. Many times you can make your win goal by flat betting 1 unit, this means that sometimes you do not need to go to the 2 unit level.

The Tweak to the method: I changed the recovery bet selection. This method relied on streaky shoes. I had to find a way to adapt it to choppy shoes. This did not take long. I stumbled upon a recovery bet selection by mistake. The new recovery bet selection seems to fit well on both streaky and choppy shoes.

I also added some rules to the progression.


I have made my profit goal in every session. The goal is to win more shoes then I lose while keeping losses to a min. The next post is going to be the bet selection, progression, rules and so on.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on June 30, 2009, 11:57:00 PM
First I will explain what 2+capping is:

2+capping is 2 or more of the same outcome, followed by the opposite outcome.

Here are examples:

BBP---2+ of B followed by P................PPB---2+of P followed by B...........BBBP---2+ of B followed by P........PPPPPPPB---2+ of P Follwed by B

To drive home the idea:

The 2+ is the streaking side. The cap is the side the breaks the streak.

Example: BBBB P----2+is the streak which is B,,,,,The cap is P because it broke the B.

Now when you get to the cap you bet for the cap to return as the next outcome. So the 2+capping is the trigger then you bet for the cap to streak.  This is the main bet. This is the 2+capping bet.

Example BBP (you have the trigger now you bet for P to come out again.) The ideal result should look like this BBPP

Example 2.) BBBBP (2+capping trigger now bet for P to come out again). Ideal result should look like this BBBBPP

Example 3. ) PPPPPPPB (2+ capping trigger now bet for B to come out again). Ideal result should look like this PPPPPPPBB

With the 2+capping the ideal results should aways be BBPP, BBBPP, PPBB, PPPBB and so on.

Now obviously the ideal result will not always occur. Here is a losing bet: PP B P

Now I will explain what you do when you lose. HERE IS THE TWEAK

This is where I had my first problem when testing. I had to deal with the question of: Should I begin a recovery bet selection to recover back to even or should I just wait for the next capping opportunity? Well I honestly do not know which is a better Idea. I went with using a recovery bet selection to go back to even and I have not looked back. If someone can prove that it is a better idea to not use the recovery bet selection then I am all for it. But for right now I will explain the method as it currently stands.

If you lose then you begin to bet the previous outcome. By doing this you begin to play with the flow of the shoe. So if the shoe gets choppy then you will be betting in line with the chops. If the shoe gets streaky then you will be betting with the streaks. It is that simple....and this tiny changed to the recovery bet selection has sent my win rate up 100% so far in testing. By betting the last outcome, you are not only betting with the flow of the shoe but you are also decreasing the amount of bets that you could possibly make...that is a good thing. The next key to the recovery is to bet back to even. Sometimes going for that one extra unit will cause you to make many bets that you do not want to make just for one unit.


[/color]
First I will explain what I mean when back to even: Back to even means that if you were +2 units before the capping bet and you lose you bet until you are back to +2. When you get back to +2 units (EVEN) you stop and wait for the next trigger.  
Exception to the back to even rule: Sometimes I will go for the extra unit but only if I have not won one unit in a many bets. I rarely do this. This move is a matter of whether you are willing to take the risk for the extra unit.

Now I will explain again what I mean by bet the previous outcome and I will give an example
When you lose the 2+capping bet you enter the recovery bet. This is when you are betting based on what the previous outcome was.

Example:

B
B
B
P 2+capping trigger bet for P to come next
B Lose, now bet previous outcome, so you are betting for P to come next
P Win  you are even so stop betting

Example:

P
P
P
B  2+capping bet, so you bet for B
P Lose, so now you bet for B to come since you are betting the previous outcome.
P Lose, Now you are betting P again since you are betting for the previous outcome.
P Win and Bet P again since it is the previous outcome
P Win. Even so stop


As you can see you cannot lose to a long streak of chops and you cannot lose to a long streak of P's or B's. This was a major problem that the 3+capping method could not overcome.

Now I will explain the Progression: SECOND TWEAK

-I have only tried one progression with this method and it worked. I don't know how a positive progression would work, maybe a positive progression would be more effective, I am not sure.

-The progression is a delayed negative progression. I think this might be Gr8player's progression from GG but I am not sure. If this is his progression then I do not play it like he does, but I do like the basic idea of it.

The progression has 7 bets before you go up a level. here it is

1111111, 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5, 2222222, 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5, 3333333, 3.5 and so on.

-as you can see you are going up .5 units with each level and there are 7 bets in each level.

Now I will explain how you track and play the progression as well as the rules that I made for the progression

How to play it:

You record each bet as Bet1, Bet 2, Bet 3, bet 4, bet 5, Bet 6, Bet 7. If you go to the second level then you always start over at Bet 1 and continue the count up to 7. If you go to the next level then you reset the Bet count at 1 and go to 7. When you go down a level you do the same...reset the bet count to 1, and go to 7.

You are always working your way to Bet 7 whether you win or lose.

So you are always going up in the level. During a level you never go down. However you can go up and down levels. For example during the 1 unit level you are always going up to bet 7.
You can go from the 1 unit level to the 2 unit level to the 3 unit level to the 1 unit level. You can go up and down between levels.

Here are the rules for the progression.   


when to go up a level in the progression: You go up a level in the progression ONLY AFTER you have reached bet 7 AND ONLY if you have not recovered back to even

Upon recovering back to even stay at the level that you are at. So if you were +3 units and you get to the 2 unit level and you recover back to +3 units you stay at the 2 unit level all of the way to bet 7. After you complete bet 7 you stay at the 2 unit level and you do not go back down to the 1 unit level. This is important because this will help you acheive your win goal faster if your recovery bets are out of sync with the shoe.

When to go down a level in the progression: You only go down a level if you have gotten to high for comfort in your progression. So if you are around the 4-5 unit levels and you have recovered back to even, then start to climb down the progression as though it is a ladder. Do not jump down to the 1 unit level because you may not achieve your win goal by the end of the shoe.


Rules for the method

1.) Win goal is 5.5-7 units per shoe. If you play the shoe out then you can obviously make more but I like to have a win goal to decrease my venerability to the casino. When you achieve your win goal you stop. I usually shoot for 6-7 units. In testing I have made the win goal around the 40-55 decisions of 8 deck shoes. Even though there is still about half a shoe left, I do not like to play it out. I take my winnings and wait for the next shoe.  

2.) Stop loss is between 15-20 units. If you lose this much then you probably just need to wait for a new shoe. If you are winning more than you lose then you will easily recover within the next few shoes. And trust me, this method will lose from time to time.

3.) follow the progression rules as I described above they are extremely important. Even though the recovery bet selection helps to get you in sync with the flow of the shoe that does not always happen right away. Sometimes it takes a few losses before you begin to recover back to even. Accepting the losses is important because you can not win every bet.

4.) follow the rules about the recovery bet selection. *If the recovery betting has gone on for a long period of time then I do not try to recover back to even. I will accept a 1-2 unit loss and wait for the next 2+capping opportunity.


Here some final thoughts before I conclude this post.

You are obviously not going to win every single shoe. Some shoes may make the win goal, some shoes may come close to it, and some shoes may lose. This is why it is important to have a stop loss. I would make the stop loss around 15-20 units but I will know for sure after testing. A stop loss is so important because it gets you out of a shoe that you cannot win. A problem that many gamblers have is that they do not know how to quit when they are losing. I had this problem when I first started and I still have this problem from time to time. I don't know much about professional gambling but I would guess that professionals know when to get out of a shoe, a session, whatever you want to call it. I think getting out of a shoe at the right time is one thing that separates those of us that make money from those of us who lose. It makes more sense to use common sense and realism as the major tools for gambling rather than luck, wishful thinking, whatever you want to call it.

If this method can win more than it losses then we should have no problem accepting a loss.


I am here to answer any questions. I will be posting some example shoes tomorrow. I have 3000 live shoes to test so I can really put this thing to the test. I will be posting results as I test.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: sniper on July 01, 2009, 08:13:16 AM
Hello John1234,

Thanks again for your system. Regarding the recovery part, I believe a quite common pattern in baccarat,the "double chop" can cause some damage. Losses is part of the game and cannot be rid off totally. As long as there are more winners than losers, we will be successful in the long run.

Example

B
B
B
P  2+capped
B  LOSS      (double chop starts here)
B  LOSS
P  LOSS      
P  LOSS
B  LOSS
B  LOSS

John1234, I believe we will never find a perfect outcome. The most important thing is to know what we are losing to. We will then be able to use a progression to wrap around it. There will still be losses somehow. The most important thing left here is, if the BS and MM combination can take care of big losses, then we have a potential long term winner. Professionals always believe in "win some loss some", end of the day as long as there is some profit left, it's success.

Regards

sniper
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 01, 2009, 05:40:48 PM
Sniper:

Thanks for the post. I agree with everything that you say and I am not trying to find the perfect method. My goal is to have some profit left over by the end of my sessions.

Here is my take on the double Chop that you were talking about:

I agree that the double Chop can damage you during a recovery. But it is also important to remember that double chop and also work to your advantage. The double Chop is the 2+capping bet. So if the shoe is generating many double chops then it can be good and bad.

Double Chops are good because they are the two plus capping bet. Double Chops are bad because they will hurt you during the recovery. So the key to keep losses to a minimum is to find a way to use this information to our advantage. To use the double chop to our advantage during a losing recovery we would simply have to accept a loss then wait for the next 2+capping opportunity to begin betting.

I like this new recovery more because it works for both streaks and chops. As you pointed out double chops are dangerous but at least they work to your advantage as well. This method will never have a perfect bet selection, but if it has a good bet selection then i will be more than happy.

I will be posting some shoe examples soon
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 01, 2009, 05:47:09 PM
Sniper-

I also like your statement about knowing what we are losing to and wrapping the progression around it. I am not sure how to construct a recovery to that statement but I like your statement because it shows that you really need to be paying attention to what is going on within the shoe when you are playing baccarat. Sometimes you need to make a bet that is more in line with the texture of the shoe rather then what the rules of the mechanical method dictate. So if you see that a shoe keeps throwing out a losing pattern then it is probably a good idea to use that information to your advantage and there are a few ways to do so.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 01, 2009, 06:39:25 PM
Here is an example shoe. It was the first shoe from the 3000 live shoes that I plan to test. It was a very easy shoe to play. I will post more difficult example shoes as I come across them. This shoe is an ideal shoe to play because I never had to go up levels of the progression. The profit was won by flat betting.

I only play until I make the win goal. I test the way that I play.


B      
B      
B      
B      
P   capping Bet 1    
P      Win +1 unit
B   Capping Bet 2, bet 1 unit   
B      Win +2 units
B      
P   Capping Bet 3, Bet 1 unit   
P      Win +3 units
B   Capping Bet 4, Bet 1 unit   
P           Lose +2 units now start recovery..Bet 5, 1 unit B
B      Win +3 units (even) recovery over
B      
B      
P   Capping Bet 6, Bet 1 Unit
P      Win +4 units
P      
P      
P      
B   Capping Bet 7, Bet 1 unit
B      Win +5 units
B      
B      
B      
B      
P   Capping, (bet count reset stay at 1 unit level) Bet 1
P      Win +6 units---Win goal made but go for 7 units since shoe is going so well...remember win goal is 5.5-7 units
P      
B   Capping Bet 2, Bet 1 unit
B      Win +7 units. Now stop. Max win goal achieved
P      
P      
P      
P      
P      
P      
P      
B      
B      
B      
B      
P      
B      
P      
B      
B      
P      
P      
B      
P      
P      
B      
B      
B      
P      
P      
P      
P      
B      
B      
P      
B      
P      
B      
P      
B      
B      
B      
B      

Total 7 units.

I would have been playing with $20 base bets so that would have been 140 for me.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 01, 2009, 06:56:59 PM
I am officially working on the 3000 live shoe test. I will post the results after every 50 shoes that I complete.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 01, 2009, 07:01:57 PM
Don't forget the commission you would have paid On that shoe it would have been .15 of a unit
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: sniper on July 01, 2009, 07:05:59 PM
Hello John1234,

Thanks for your explanation regarding the double chop. I am more relief after hearing your view on this part. Wish you success in your testing.

Regards

sniper
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 01, 2009, 07:46:56 PM
Natural 9- thanks for the info. I know that the casinos that I play at take 5% out. I count the commission as part of the win goal.

Sniper-  Thanks for the wish of success. I am sorry that I did not explain my view on the chop before. I was rushing to get the posts about the method out and I never thought to express my view about this aspect of the method.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 02, 2009, 08:40:39 PM
John let me see if I got this right you say on recovery you bet on previous outcomes but the way I see it you are betting on the time before last outcome  am I right or am I wrong

B
B
P
B capping bet
B time before last loses
B time before last win

Regards Rodney
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 03, 2009, 12:05:16 AM
I must be confused as to what previous outcome means....When I say previous outcome I mean the time before the last outcome...

So let's say that you lose the 3+capping bet, you now enter the recovery. The losing 3+capping sequence would be

B
B
P
B So now you are on B. The previous outcome from B is P...otherwise known as the time before the last outcome...So you bet for P to come next.

Does this make sense? Is previous the wrong word to use?  


------------------

and here is how I would play the sequence that you posted.

B
B
P 2+capping trigger so Bet P
B Lose. Now bet the result that was previous from B. This means you bet for P
B Lose. Now bet the result that was previous from this result. This means that you bet for B to come
B Win and again, bet for the previous result from this current result...


So maybe that is previous previous and not previous?
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: roules on July 03, 2009, 01:34:13 AM
John,
Why did you change the bet selection part? It isn't a big deal, as half the time it wins and half the time it loses right? I think the combination of targeting "events" like the capping method and playing a more gentle progression like you posted is a better idea for when things do go out of balance. I just finished 5 live shoes +30 but using a different bet selection, I'll post more after I've played a few more shoes. It's early days, but this progression is almost flat betting which is really cool. Now that I think about it, it's similar to a pluscoup progression.

nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/pluscoup-progression-andgt-(general-knowledge)/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/pluscoup-progression-andgt-(general-knowledge)/)


Also thanks for all your efforts too so far, it'd nearly kill me typing as much as you have!

R
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: roules on July 03, 2009, 02:21:09 AM
Another progression I just re-read was the Kelly progression, basically betting 4% of your bankroll at each play. Up as you win down as you lose. I've got it on PDF if you want I can email it or it might be in the forum somewhere. The progression you've currently got works well enough but, just thought Id throw this in the mix for you.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 03, 2009, 04:10:24 AM
John if you are in recovery mode and a capping bet comes up do you play it or do you still go with the time before last bet

I also posted the betting terminology in another thread for you John and others

Example

b
b
b
b
b
p
b
b
b
p
p
b
p
p
b
b
b


This tweak  might help if in recovery mode and this happens BPPBB  bet the terrible  twos  the capping bet itself takes care of the terrible twos naturally by winning every second bet but in recovery mode can hurt the BR
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 03, 2009, 11:48:27 AM
Roules:
I changed the recovery bet selection part because the original recovery bet selection only really worked on streaky shoes. I began testing it and I was running into a ton of choppy shoes and it just did not do well. When i switched the recovery bet selection it did much better with choppy shoes because it could recover. I like the idea of looking into the past events and betting based off of them. I know that some people will say that is a completely wrong way to play but after doing so much reading I am now convinced that randomness isn't so random and maybe you can use a past event to jump on either a cluster of streaks or zig zags.   

As far as the progression goes...I like positive progressions so I am interested in the details of the kelly progression. I like the progression that I have because it helps to control the amount you lose when you cannot win a bet but there are some downfalls to it. I think a major downfall is that sometimes you cannot win quick enough in the recovery which means that it takes longer to recover if you lose the first few recovery bets.

Whatever you are doing sounds interesting. I look forward to your post about it.

I have only tested about 15 shoes of the 3000 live shoes so far. I am going to post the results of the first 50. I haven't had time to continue testing. Right now I have won 14 shoes and lost 1 shoe. The shoe that lost finished -1 unit.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 03, 2009, 11:56:40 AM
Thanks for posting the betting terminology, I'll have to take a look at it.

Your question is one that I have never considered. It is a very good question. In the last post I told Roules that out of 15 shoes it has won 14 and lost 1 shoe. The shoe that it lost in had many terrible twos. Also, the terrible twos have showed up in every shoe to slow down the recovery. My goal with this method was to use the terrible twos to our advantage however with the recovery this does not exactly happen.

You have a very good idea. Maybe switching to the capping bet during the recovery is a good idea. If we know that terrible two's are basically the only sequence that will give the recovery problems then we need to use that to our advantage and bring them into play. One thing that I hate about the recovery is that when you lose you are losing to the 2+capping pattern, a pattern that you should be winning on.

I will look into incoropoating this idea within the play. Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 03, 2009, 06:31:52 PM
Applying the 2+capping to the recovery didn't work well, however I did not apply the idea to a ton of shoes. Only a few.

But I think I did come up with something that avoids the terrible 2's. I don't know if it will work. I applied it to one shoe so far and it worked. I don't get why it worked but it did. I was just playing around with ideas.

The shoe that i applied it with originally finished -1 unit with about a 15 unit drawdown. After retesting with the idea to avoid the terrible twos it finished +6.5 units with a 4 unit drawdown. I have to see how it does on the other 14 shoes that I have tested so I am going to go back and relook at what I did.

My idea involves keeping a score but there is more to it then that. Such as resetting, stopping, holding off and so on. The idea could possible be used on it's on as a flat betting method but I don't know if it could work...who knows
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 03, 2009, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: John1234 on July 03, 2009, 11:56:40 AM
Thanks for posting the betting terminology, I'll have to take a look at it.

Your question is one that I have never considered. It is a very good question. In the last post I told Roules that out of 15 shoes it has won 14 and lost 1 shoe. The shoe that it lost in had many terrible twos. Also, the terrible twos have showed up in every shoe to slow down the recovery. My goal with this method was to use the terrible twos to our advantage however with the recovery this does not exactly happen.

You have a very good idea. Maybe switching to the capping bet during the recovery is a good idea. If we know that terrible two's are basically the only sequence that will give the recovery problems then we need to use that to our advantage and bring them into play. One thing that I hate about the recovery is that when you lose you are losing to the 2+capping pattern, a pattern that you should be winning on.

I will look into incoropoating this idea within the play. Thanks for your post.

John I dont mean you apply the c apping bet to it I mean you play along witnh the Twos until a  loss and then go play the normal bet you could call it the exclusion rule

Example

b
p
p
b play normal recovery rules
b terrible twos appear bet p
p  win   bet p
p  win   bet b
b  win   bet b
p  lose  bet p  time before last normal  rules for recovery

To me you are better off playing along witrh the shoe than against it

I have one more tweak I think is worth a think about you are in recovery mode this happnens PPPPPPPP after the third P you have recovered I believe you should again play along with the shoe to the streak ends you may catch lot more extra units that way also this scenario BPBPBPBPB play along with the chops I hav e seen it happen many times on the bac table do it expecially when you near your win goal or about to exit the shoe I have seen it alot in testing I have looked over 25 shoes and results have been very positive specially using exclusion rule and even without it

Anyhow that my 2 pennies for what its worth

Regards  Rodney
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 04, 2009, 03:12:33 AM
Natural 9-

Wow, I am sorry...I completely misunderstood your post. Now I get what you are saying...it sounds like a great idea. You are right to play with the shoe rather than against it. I guess that does make so much more sense. I also like the sound of your tweak. Thank you very much for the two ideas I want to put them to the test right away but I have to go to bed.

I am going to add your ideas to the method and test it. Your posts are exactly what I need to help me achieve a better method.

Before you posted, I mentioned something about an idea that I had that involves keeping a score. I tested it on about 15 shoes, then I saw your post. I have a question to ask about the idea that I have. I just want to let you know that this post will not be left aside...I just want to deal with this question first. I am going to post it in a new post.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 04, 2009, 03:49:50 AM
As of now Natural 9 has come up with two great ideas to improve the recovery. I want to begin testing the ideas but there is a question that I need to ask first.

This afternoon I was playing around with some recovery ideas. I came up with an idea in about 5 minutes. I have only tested it on 15 shoes (the same 15 that I tested the first 2+capping method on) and the results shocked me. Every shoe finished between +6 to +7 units without playing the entire shoe. And only two shoes had a drawdown no greater than 6 units.

With the good results I am kind of confused. I am confused because I do not know why what I am doing is working. Can somebody please explain to me what I am doing and if I am just making a simple bet selection more complicated then it should be?

Here is what I have been doing. I will explain it the best that I can for right now.

-I make a normal 2+capping bet and if I win then I win
-If I lose the 2+capping bet then I bet the chop to recovery to even. Same way I started as before.So this bet would look like this:
B
B
P 2+capping
B Lose now bet P
P Win  Even

-If I lose the chop bet then This is where I begin the count. There are rules to the count which has made it successful so far. First I will present the basic idea.

Well actually I don't know the theory behind it because I don't get why it has been successful so far, so I can't present the basic idea. But anyway here is what the count is:

-the count looks like this P V B

P will always be on the P side and B will always be on the B side.

You simply add each player and banker to the count (only when in recovery mode)

So pretend we lost the capping bet and the chop bet. Now here is how you keep count:

P 1v0
P 2v0
B 2v1
B 2v2
B 2v3
P 3v3
P 4v3
B 4v4
P 5v4

The count dictates which bet you are going to make. In order to know which bet to make during the recovery you must first look at the count and second know the rules that go along with the count.

Here are the rules:

1.) You make your bet based on which side is higher in the count. So if the count is 5-4 you bet for Player. If the count is 4-6 you bet banker. You always begin your count with either 0v1 or 1v0, whichever outcome came out. You start your count after the chop bet.
2.) Even, No Bet Rule: When the count gets even you do not bet. You stop and wait. for either the P or B to add one to the count
3.) Zag Zag Rule: The second time that the count is even you bet zig zags. Even though the count is even you MAKE A BET. When you bet zig zags you are still keeping proper count. After the zig zags break you go back to betting based on the higher count.


Example

B
B
P 2+capping
B Lose Now bet Chop so bet P
B Lose, Now you enter the count recovery your count starts at 0v1 so you bet for B
P Lose Now your count is 1v1 so you do not bet
B Lose Now your count is 1v2 so you bet B
P Lose now your count is 2v2, this is the second even count so you enter zig zag mode, bet B
B Win now your count is 2v3 but stay with zig zag
P Win--count 3v3 zz mode
B Win count 3v4 zz mode bet P
B Lose count 3-5 zig zag mode is broken now back to normal count mode.

4.) Terrible Two's Rule: When the count is even for the second time you be the terrible two's until broken then resume normal count bets.Same as zig zag rule

Example

B
B
P 2+capping bet
B Chop Bet
B Lose Now start count bets--count is 0v1 so bet B
P Lose now count is 1v1 so wait
P Lose now count is 2v1 so bet P
B Win Now count is 2v2 second even so bet B
B Win count is 2v3 you are in terrible two mode so bet P
P Win count is 3v3 terrible two mode so bet P
B Lose count is 3v4, terrible two mode is broken so resume with normal count bets, bet B
B Win

5.) Difference of 2 rule and qualification: The difference of 2 means that the difference between the player side and banker side is at least 2. If this happens then you switch sides but it must fall under a certain qualification to take place. First here is an example.  

difference of two could be 4v2, 5v7 and so on.

lets say that your count is 5v1 and then B is the next outcome. This makes your count 5v2. Now the difference of 2 rule comes into play. since the difference of 2 rule is in play you bet for B rather than P. This is because you expect B to begin to show up. Here is the most important aspect to this rule: A certain qualification must take place.
-For the difference of 2 rule to be triggered you need to have had a side streak for more than 2 plays and it can not go into effect within the very beginning of the recovery.

Here is an example of when not to use the difference of two rule

B
B
P
B
B count mode 0v1
B 0v2
P 1v2
B 1v3
B 1v4
P 2v4 --as you can see this is the beginning of the progression. Do not enter the difference of 2 mode.

here is an example of when to use the difference of two mode:

B
B
P
B
B count mode 0v1
B 0v2
B 0v3
B 0v4
B 0v5
P 1v5 now use the difference of 2
P 2v5 stay with P

You are expecting the other side to even out.

If you win then you stay with the winning bet until it losses at that point you bet based off the count

If it losses then you are out of difference of two mode until the trigger appears again.


6.) Reset rule: After you finish each recovery you reset the count. This seems to work better then keeping a constant count for the entire shoe.




I use the normal progression and it has not lost yet.

If this seems complicated it is not. I seriously made this up in 5 minutes. The most important thing is to know the rules and how to apply them to the betting. That takes only a few shoes to get good at.


So why has this been working? Am I just making a basic bet selection more complex? Or is there something to this idea? I have managed to confuse myself.

Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 04, 2009, 04:08:28 AM
Quote from: John1234 on July 04, 2009, 03:49:50 AM
As of now Natural 9 has come up with two great ideas to improve the recovery. I want to begin testing the ideas but there is a question that I need to ask first.

This afternoon I was playing around with some recovery ideas. I came up with an idea in about 5 minutes. I have only tested it on 15 shoes (the same 15 that I tested the first 2+capping method on) and the results shocked me. Every shoe finished between +6 to +7 units without playing the entire shoe. And only two shoes had a drawdown no greater than 6 units.

With the good results I am kind of confused. I am confused because I do not know why what I am doing is working. Can somebody please explain to me what I am doing and if I am just making a simple bet selection more complicated then it should be?

Here is what I have been doing. I will explain it the best that I can for right now.

-I make a normal 2+capping bet and if I win then I win
-If I lose the 2+capping bet then I bet the chop to recovery to even. Same way I started as before.So this bet would look like this:
B
B
P 2+capping
B Lose now bet P
P Win  Even

-If I lose the chop bet then This is where I begin the count. There are rules to the count which has made it successful so far. First I will present the basic idea.

Well actually I don't know the theory behind it because I don't get why it has been successful so far, so I can't present the basic idea. But anyway here is what the count is:

-the count looks like this P V B

P will always be on the P side and B will always be on the B side.

You simply add each player and banker to the count (only when in recovery mode)

So pretend we lost the capping bet and the chop bet. Now here is how you keep count:

P 1v0
P 2v0
B 2v1
B 2v2
B 2v3
P 3v3
P 4v3
B 4v4
P 5v4

The count dictates which bet you are going to make. In order to know which bet to make during the recovery you must first look at the count and second know the rules that go along with the count.

Here are the rules:

1.) You make your bet based on which side is higher in the count. So if the count is 5-4 you bet for Player. If the count is 4-6 you bet banker. You always begin your count with either 0v1 or 1v0, whichever outcome came out. You start your count after the chop bet.
2.) Even, No Bet Rule: When the count gets even you do not bet. You stop and wait. for either the P or B to add one to the count
3.) Zag Zag Rule: The second time that the count is even you bet zig zags. Even though the count is even you MAKE A BET. When you bet zig zags you are still keeping proper count. After the zig zags break you go back to betting based on the higher count.


Example

B
B
P 2+capping
B Lose Now bet Chop so bet P
B Lose, Now you enter the count recovery your count starts at 0v1 so you bet for B
P Lose Now your count is 1v1 so you do not bet
B Lose Now your count is 1v2 so you bet B
P Lose now your count is 2v2, this is the second even count so you enter zig zag mode, bet B
B Win now your count is 2v3 but stay with zig zag
P Win--count 3v3 zz mode
B Win count 3v4 zz mode bet P
B Lose count 3-5 zig zag mode is broken now back to normal count mode.

4.) Terrible Two's Rule: When the count is even for the second time you be the terrible two's until broken then resume normal count bets.Same as zig zag rule

Example

B
B
P 2+capping bet
B Chop Bet
B Lose Now start count bets--count is 0v1 so bet B
P Lose now count is 1v1 so wait
P Lose now count is 2v1 so bet P
B Win Now count is 2v2 second even so bet B
B Win count is 2v3 you are in terrible two mode so bet P
P Win count is 3v3 terrible two mode so bet P
B Lose count is 3v4, terrible two mode is broken so resume with normal count bets, bet B
B Win

5.) Difference of 2 rule and qualification: The difference of 2 means that the difference between the player side and banker side is at least 2. If this happens then you switch sides but it must fall under a certain qualification to take place. First here is an example. 

difference of two could be 4v2, 5v7 and so on.

lets say that your count is 5v1 and then B is the next outcome. This makes your count 5v2. Now the difference of 2 rule comes into play. since the difference of 2 rule is in play you bet for B rather than P. This is because you expect B to begin to show up. Here is the most important aspect to this rule: A certain qualification must take place.
-For the difference of 2 rule to be triggered you need to have had a side streak for more than 2 plays and it can not go into effect within the very beginning of the recovery.

Here is an example of when not to use the difference of two rule

B
B
P
B
B count mode 0v1
B 0v2
P 1v2
B 1v3
B 1v4
P 2v4 --as you can see this is the beginning of the progression. Do not enter the difference of 2 mode.

here is an example of when to use the difference of two mode:

B
B
P
B
B count mode 0v1
B 0v2
B 0v3
B 0v4
B 0v5
P 1v5 now use the difference of 2
P 2v5 stay with P

You are expecting the other side to even out.

If you win then you stay with the winning bet until it losses at that point you bet based off the count

If it losses then you are out of difference of two mode until the trigger appears again.


6.) Reset rule: After you finish each recovery you reset the count. This seems to work better then keeping a constant count for the entire shoe.




I use the normal progression and it has not lost yet.

If this seems complicated it is not. I seriously made this up in 5 minutes. The most important thing is to know the rules and how to apply them to the betting. That takes only a few shoes to get good at.


So why has this been working? Am I just making a basic bet selection more complex? Or is there something to this idea? I have managed to confuse myself.



well I am not sure why just by playing the original rules with the exclusion it seems to win quite easily even with flat betting you get to your win target by flat betting 80 per cent of the time I think

i not even tested using a progression but have been doing it in my head for the time being out of 30 shoes one shoe lost about 10 units flat bet some if played out won over 15 units but my testing hasnt been to scientific these are approximate
stop loss flat bet bout 15 units and with progression bout twice that I think
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 04, 2009, 04:19:35 AM
so you are saying to not use the progression with the exclusion rule and the tweak that you provided? just flat bet? I like the sound of that.



Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: dennisbelle on July 04, 2009, 12:57:06 PM
John,
   I don't understand why your first example of the "difference of two" does not apply and in your second example the "difference of two" does apply, can you clarify?
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 04, 2009, 01:02:37 PM
Sorry that was hard for me to explain.

Do not worry about that for now. The whole thing was just an Idea that I tested. The difference of two rule needs some work and I need to look at it better to be able to explain it better. As for now I am going to be testing what Natural 9 has posted. The whole idea that I posted probably needs some work, I was just trying to figure out if there is a reason why the basics of it is working.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 04, 2009, 01:19:20 PM
Natural 9-
I'm confused about this: Do you only do this during the recovery? Or do you do this after you recover as well? If you play it after the recovery then what do u do if you lose? Do you just accept the loss?

I have one more tweak I think is worth a think about you are in recovery mode this happnens PPPPPPPP after the third P you have recovered I believe you should again play along with the shoe to the streak ends you may catch lot more extra units that way also this scenario BPBPBPBPB play along with the chops I hav e seen it happen many times on the bac table do it expecially when you near your win goal or about to exit the shoe I have seen it alot in testing I have looked over 25 shoes and results have been very positive specially using exclusion rule and even without it

Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 05, 2009, 01:23:35 AM
Yes a lot of the time you can win by flat betting  and recover too but of course there is always that difficult shoe so using a mild progression would help you to recover quicker do some tests yourself john and you may see what I mean
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 01:32:59 AM
Quote from: Natural9 on July 05, 2009, 01:23:35 AM
Yes a lot of the time you can win by flat betting  and recover too but of course there is always that difficult shoe so using a mild progression would help you to recover quicker do some tests yourself john and you may see what I mean

Ok thanks. I am sticking with the same progression and testing is good good so far. I am only 7 shoes in. I haven't been using the tweak because I just do not understand when to play it and what to do if I do not win that bet.

Also, before I begin to play the capping bets I have been waiting for two instances

Either BBPP or BB P BB P then I go into capping with recovery. I don't think I am playing this the way you suggested. I don't know why I am having so much trouble understanding something so simple...But what I think you are saying is to play the capping as soon as I see the two of the same outcome?  

Could you please provide a longer example? Thank you
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 05, 2009, 01:37:47 AM
Quote from: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 01:32:59 AM
Ok thanks. I am sticking with the same progression and testing is good good so far. I am only 7 shoes in. I haven't been using the tweak because I just do not understand when to play it and what to do if I do not win that bet.

Also, before I begin to play the capping bets I have been waiting for two instances

Either BBPP or BB P BB P then I go into capping with recovery. I don't think I am playing this the way you suggested. I don't know why I am having so much trouble understanding something so simple...

Could you please provide a longer example? Thank you

Tweak is easy to use

As soon as you see scenario like this
B
P
P
B
B you now bet the twos
B you lose now bet as per normal would be B
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 01:47:08 AM
ok thanks. I think i get it.

I also just tried your tweak as far as betting after the 3 of the same outcome and the bet on the chops. I just played the first shoe and made 16 units. My only question is when you do begin to bet after seeing a zig zag. In the shoe that I played I watied to see PBP then I would bet the zig zag.

Also I would play a mild progression until I get around 7 units. After that I would switch to flat betting. If I fell below 5 units then I would kick back into the mild progression but this didn't even happen.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 05, 2009, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 01:47:08 AM
ok thanks. I think I get it.

I also just tried your tweak as far as betting after the 3 of the same outcome and the bet on the chops. I just played the first shoe and made 16 units. My only question is when you do begin to bet after seeing a zig zag. In the shoe that I played I watied to see PBP then I would bet the zig zag.

Also I would play a mild progression until I get around 7 units. After that I would switch to flat betting. If I fell below 5 units then I would kick back into the mild progression but this didn't even happen.

No I would play your normal capping rules which seem to work well and the recovery which seems to work well also the only time i would play an extended chop or streaks is when you are close to your win goal or if you get the feel of the shoe like if it is continually streaking or chopping even then I would just wait to next opportunity
think your bet selection is quite good and why ruin it by playing more hope this helps
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 02:03:15 AM
Ok thanks...Now I understand what you are saying to do.

I will begin a test tomorrow based on your improvements to the idea now that I know exactly what you are doing. Thanks for answering all of my questions.

Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 02:27:03 PM
I don't think my idea of the delayed progression is a great idea anymore. Because if the method will work flat betting then all you need is a slight progression then go back to 1 unit bets after recovered. The delayed progression doesn't really reset to 1 unit bets. So if you get to the 6 unit bet and you hit a losing streak then it could really hurt your bankroll... So I will look into a few different progressions.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 02:31:48 PM
As of right now here is how the method Stands:

Bet Selection: 2 plus capping

Recovery Bet Selection: Bet every time before the last and use the exclusion rule along with Natural 9's other tweak idea

Progression: not sure if the delayed progression is going to cut it. I will look into the two progressions that Roules posted about and some slight negative progressions. any ideas??
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on July 05, 2009, 06:31:56 PM
I think the divisor plan would work well but you have to be prepared to sometimes  grind it out may take alot of bets to recover but always at the end you haver a one unit profit  I not sure I like your idea of getting back to even so to speak you want something for you bets specially after the recovery mode
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on July 05, 2009, 11:11:01 PM
Yes I don't know if I like the idea of going back to even anymore either. So maybe going for at least +1 unit profit would work better.

Here is my problem with the divisor:

With baccarat I do not think you are allowed to bet $1.00 chips on top of the minimum bet. I could be wrong....I have never done this and I have never seen anybody do this. So sometimes you could have a bet that must be $27 so if you cannot bet 27 then you need to round up to 30. Then if you have a bet that is 33 then you need to round up to 35 but I don't know if you can place a $5.00 bet ontop of your bet, again I have never done this, so this means you would round up to 40. I could be very wrong here and if so then please correct me because this is one of the only things that has stopped me from using the divisor.
Title: 2+capping
Post by: John1234 on September 08, 2009, 01:46:43 AM
I have started to test the 2+capping method again. I am using a negative progression and a very simple recovery bet selection. I have also altered the rules and I will explain later if everything continues to go well.

Ten shoes have been tested so far Win goal Between 8-9 units.

Shoe 1: 8 units
Shoe 2: 8 units
shoe 3: 8 units
shoe 4: 9 units
Shoe 5: 8 units
shoe 6: 8 units
Shoe 7: 9 units
Shoe 8: 8 units
Shoe 9: 8 units
Shoe 10: 8 units

Total units after 10 shoes= 82 units
Largest drawdown= 6 units ( happened once)
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on September 09, 2009, 01:36:01 AM
I tested an altered version of this on roulette today for 609 spins and it came up with a 35 unit profit. I have no idea if that is good or not because 609 spins is a lot of spins.

I'll post the altered version of this system soon. I have start studying for so maybe sometime after friday.

I made a baccarat version of 2+capping and a roulette version. The baccarat version uses a more aggressive progression. The roulette version uses a slower drawn out progression because of the 0's and the fact that a don't have to deal with the time constraints of a shoe.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on September 09, 2009, 10:49:04 PM
I don't have much time so this is going to be nice and short. Here is how I altered to 2+capping system for baccarat.

1.) Play until the normal trigger arrives. 2 of the same outcome (the 2+side) followed by the opposite outcome (the capped side) then you bet for the 2+ side to return again.

Example:

P
P 2+ of P
B (B) capped P so bet for P to return
P Win

Example 2:

B
B
B
B 2 + of B
P Capped by P now bet for B
B Win

2.) When you win the capping bet stop and wait for a new trigger

3.) if you lose the capping bet you will be betting streaks with exclusion rule

Exclusion Rule: When betting streaks, if you come across the (2+capping trigger) then you make the 2+capping bet.

-You only bet the recovery phase until you are 1 unit ahead. When you are one unit ahead you stop and wait for the next two plus capping bet.


Example of recovery:

B
B
P
P Lose Now bet streaks
P Win

Second Example:

B
B
B
B
P
P Lose, bet streaks of P
B Lose (exclusion rule)
P Win now streaks
P Win


Example 3:

P
P
P
B
B Lose bet streaks
P Exclusion rule
P Lose, bet streaks


Progression (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ...) As  you can see you add 1 unit as you go up the ladder. On a win you start to work your way down the ladder, adjusting based on how much you need to bet to make the 1 unit profit to get out of the recovery mode.

So if I lose bet 1, I make a 2 unit Bet, If I win the 2 unit bet then I'm ahead 1 unit therefore out of recovery.

If I lose the 2 unit bet then i go to 3 units. If I win the 3 unit bet then I am at even. So instead of going down to the 2 unit bet I jump down to the 1 unit bet. And If I win that bet then I am 1 unit ahead and I am out of recovery. If I lose that bet then I am going to bet 2 units and so on.


Alternative Progression:

Here is a slower progression that I used for roulette it will probably work just as well for baccarat.

It is a 5 step progression

11111 22222 33333 44444 55555 66666...

you only go up the ladder if you lose 3 out of 5 bets.

And the same recovery rules such as betting on streaks and exclusion rule still exists.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: W7 on September 14, 2009, 12:45:49 PM
Yo. . .  John 1234.

       I am the one who came up with 2+Capping and 3+Capping.     I do not mind you using my ideas, in fact, I like what you have done with it.

         Your progressions look interesting.     For  years I have used the Martin Silverthorne Neg.  Progression when gambling.     I like the idea of losing 66. 66% of my bets, to the house,  and recovering all lost $$$$-loot on the third bet. . . . sweet ! 

                    I have won 4-figure $$$$ using it.      I like the Playtec Software online Casino's.     They seem to have a fair RNG. . . . . . gOOGLE . . . . Playtec Online Casino's . . . . search. . . . . . up pops the Casino's using thier software. . . . with free practice modes.

          With your added bet-same-way-as-the-time-before-last after  a loss,  it should  add more leverage to the bottom  line.

               Silverthorne's manual was updated  in Dec.  of 2004.    He came out with . . . NEURAL SYSTEM II . . . at that time.     It is another 80+ pages added to his. . . . .  NEURAL I. . . .   system.      He added two extra steps to his progression strings.    They add up to a  total of 32-steps in his neg.  progression.   You MOVE UP  after you lose a level and drop-down one step after you win a bet. . . . . go  down 2-steps if you win two-out-of-three bets.

:

A]. . . .  5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00,50. 00,75. 00,100. 00
B]. . . .  10. 00,16. 00,26. 00,40. 00,70. 00,105. 00,150. 00,200. 00
C] . . . 15. 00,25. 00,40. 00,65. 00,105. 00,150. 00,225. 00,300. 00
D]. . . . 25. 00,40. 00,65. 00,105. 00,150. 00,225. 00,325. 00,500. 00

      MY COMPUTER IS MESSING UP . . . SO . . . OFF FOR NOW.

Best. . . .
W7

 


             

             
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on September 14, 2009, 01:28:36 PM
Quote from: W7 on September 14, 2009, 12:45:49 PM
Yo. . .  John 1234.

       I am the one who came up with 2+Capping and 3+Capping.     I do not mind you using my ideas, in fact, I like what you have done with it.

         Your progressions look interesting.     For  years I have used the Martin Silverthorne Neg.  Progression when gambling.     I like the idea of losing 66. 66% of my bets, to the house,  and recovering all lost $$$$-loot on the third bet. . . . sweet ! 

                    I have won 4-figure $$$$ using it.      I like the Playtec Software online Casino's.     They seem to have a fair RNG. . . . . . gOOGLE . . . . Playtec Online Casino's . . . . search. . . . . . up pops the Casino's using thier software. . . . with free practice modes.

          With your added bet-same-way-as-the-time-before-last after  a loss,  it should  add more leverage to the bottom  line.

               Silverthorne's manual was updated  in Dec.  of 2004.    He came out with . . . NEURAL SYSTEM II . . . at that time.     It is another 80+ pages added to his. . . . .  NEURAL I. . . .   system.      He added two extra steps to his progression strings.    They add up to a  total of 32-steps in his neg.  progression.   You MOVE UP  after you lose a level and drop-down one step after you win a bet. . . . . go  down 2-steps if you win two-out-of-three bets.

:

A]. . . .  5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00,50. 00,75. 00,100. 00
B]. . . .  10. 00,16. 00,26. 00,40. 00,70. 00,105. 00,150. 00,200. 00
C] . . . 15. 00,25. 00,40. 00,65. 00,105. 00,150. 00,225. 00,300. 00
D]. . . . 25. 00,40. 00,65. 00,105. 00,150. 00,225. 00,325. 00,500. 00

      MY COMPUTER IS MESSING UP . . . SO . . . OFF FOR NOW.

Best. . . .
W7

 


             

             

You are actually the person who got me into baccarat. I came across your 3+capping posts over on the wrong way craps forum when I was making a switch from roulette to craps. I  like your systems a lot but could never play your system  because I could not handle the progression. I have altered your systems in different ways to deal with the progression but I don't think that the altered versions will ever be as good as your system. I have won some money but not nearly has much as you have won.

I have never tried any of the playtech casinos. I prefer to use Bet Phoenix because it has live play and it accepts USA citizens.

I honestly have not been using the capping systems lately. If you have any ideas and would like to take this thread over then feel free to do so. After all,everything here stems from your ideas.
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: W7 on September 14, 2009, 09:30:04 PM
John1234,


        You are doing an excellent job. . . . hang-in there.   You really need to get Silverthorne's. . . . .  NEURAL  SYSTEM . . . . .  manuals.

         His Neural System was run through seven-figure simulations.    He lost three tiers only twice,  once a 525 games played and once around 575 games played.   
        He moved on to the 4th and final betting tier and recovered all his  lost $$$$ bets.

        His org.   claims to have . . . NEVER. . . .  lost all  four levels, in on-line or real brick and wood Casino's !

         John, in his Neural betting- strings he brings down the progression to a + $ 2. 00 game ( ask on-line for someone to send you his Neural manuals they
are floating around for free ) below is a four level low-limit Neural string. . . . . back-test it.     Twenty base-betting units being a complete-walk-away  game :


A] . . . . 1. 00,2. 00,3. 00,5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00
B]. . . . . 2. 00,3. 00,5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00,50. 00
C]. . . . . 3. 00,5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00,50. 00,80. 00
D]. . . . . 6. 00,10. 00,16. 00,26. 00,40. 00,65. 00,105. 00,175. 00

   Play it using the Neural System's rules and  2+Capping or 3+Capping and you will never lose !  :diablo:

W7
aka: WBR. . . . . Wolf-Byte-with-Rabies  :diablo:



Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Natural9 on September 15, 2009, 03:37:55 AM
Quote from: W7 on September 14, 2009, 09:30:04 PM
John1234,


       You are doing an excellent job. . . . hang-in there.   You really need to get Silverthorne's. . . . .  NEURAL  SYSTEM . . . . .  manuals.

        His Neural System was run through seven-figure simulations.    He lost three tiers only twice,  once a 525 games played and once around 575 games played.    
       He moved on to the 4th and final betting tier and recovered all his  lost $$$$ bets.

       His org.   claims to have . . . NEVER. . . .  lost all  four levels, in on-line or real brick and wood Casino's !

        John, in his Neural betting- strings he brings down the progression to a + $ 2. 00 game ( ask on-line for someone to send you his Neural manuals they
are floating around for free ) below is a four level low-limit Neural string. . . . . back-test it.     Twenty base-betting units being a complete-walk-away  game :


A] . . . . 1. 00,2. 00,3. 00,5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00
B]. . . . . 2. 00,3. 00,5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00,50. 00
C]. . . . . 3. 00,5. 00,8. 00,13. 00,21. 00,35. 00,50. 00,80. 00
D]. . . . . 6. 00,10. 00,16. 00,26. 00,40. 00,65. 00,105. 00,175. 00

  Play it using the Neural System's rules and  2+Capping or 3+Capping and you will never lose !  :diablo:

W7
aka: WBR. . . . . Wolf-Byte-with-Rabies  :diablo:




You need balls of steel for that progression alot of people including myself  wouldnt be able to play it even if it does work
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Hayaatt on September 15, 2009, 06:58:16 AM
Quote from: W7 link=topic=10678. msg77857#msg77857 date=1252974604
John1234,


        You are doing an excellent job.  .  .  .  hang-in there.    You really need to get Silverthorne's.  .  .  .  .   NEURAL  SYSTEM .  .  .  .  .   manuals. 

         His Neural System was run through seven-figure simulations.     He lost three tiers only twice,  once a 525 games played and once around 575 games played.    
        He moved on to the 4th and final betting tier and recovered all his  lost $$$$ bets. 

        His org.    claims to have .  .  .  NEVER.  .  .  .   lost all  four levels, in on-line or real brick and wood Casino's !

         John, in his Neural betting- strings he brings down the progression to a + $ 2.  00 game ( ask on-line for someone to send you his Neural manuals they
are floating around for free ) below is a four level low-limit Neural string.  .  .  .  .  back-test it.      Twenty base-betting units being a complete-walk-away  game :


A] .  .  .  .  1.  00,2.  00,3.  00,5.  00,8.  00,13.  00,21.  00,35.  00
B].  .  .  .  .  2.  00,3.  00,5.  00,8.  00,13.  00,21.  00,35.  00,50.  00
C].  .  .  .  .  3.  00,5.  00,8.  00,13.  00,21.  00,35.  00,50.  00,80.  00
D].  .  .  .  .  6.  00,10.  00,16.  00,26.  00,40.  00,65.  00,105.  00,175.  00

   Play it using the Neural System's rules and  2+Capping or 3+Capping and you will never lose !  :diablo:

W7
aka: WBR.  .  .  .  .  Wolf-Byte-with-Rabies  :diablo:




Can somebody please explain to me what that A B C D chart is?  I'm not quite following the chart and understanding the progression used.   Anyone care to explain?  A simple explanation of how to use this method and progression would be most appreciated.   Thanks again. 
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: Joker on September 16, 2009, 02:11:20 AM
yeah same here i am very confuse with this progressive ....

if you lose A level then go B level... but after you lose A levl you are already so behind.. and how can you recover with B level with starting bet is so small


thanks
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: GARNabby on September 16, 2009, 12:18:21 PM
Quote from: Joker on September 16, 2009, 02:11:20 AM
yeah same here I am very confuse with this progressive ....

if you lose A level then go B level... but after you lose A levl you are already so behind.. and how can you recover with B level with starting bet is so small


thanks



It's possible, with say a $20,000 stake at a $10 table, to "indefinitely" do just a tiny bit better than "treading water".

But it will take 20 years to double up or lose it.  (And the chance of losing it all is that much greater, because of the additional games by it.)
Title: Re: 2+capping with delayed progression
Post by: John1234 on September 18, 2009, 01:00:49 AM
Quote from: GARNabby on September 16, 2009, 12:18:21 PM


It's possible, with say a $20,000 stake at a $10 table, to "indefinitely" do just a tiny bit better than "treading water".

But it will take 20 years to double up or lose it.  (And the chance of losing it all is that much greater, because of the additional games by it.)

I agree with you. that is why I spent the summer trying to find better ways to play the capping systems. But sadly I think the neural progression works the best, that is why I have given up on the whole idea and moved on. There is no way that I am ever going to play that progression.