Tracking systems tend not to work on a live casino so I've heard. But I have read on many forums that in an online casino, RNGs are programmed so that each number will appear the same number of times as the other over a long period of time. Is this true? If we knew over what kind of time scale would we not be able to make a system that accomadates this? Maybe I've got this all wrong. It's just a thought.
Quote from: JohnBoy26 on March 02, 2011, 08:43:15 AM
Tracking systems tend not to work on a live casino so I've heard. But I have read on many forums that in an online casino, RNGs are programmed so that each number will appear the same number of times as the other over a long period of time. Is this true? If we knew over what kind of time scale would we not be able to make a system that accomadates this? Maybe I've got this all wrong. It's just a thought.
NO!
A RNG is just an equation that has no memory at all. Over a very long time, say millions of spun numbers the sequence will start over unless the "seed" for the RNG is replaced occasionally. In normal play that would be many years.
Rest assured that RNGs produce random numbers which have no information or predictive data in them.
RNGs don't have a memories but the owner operators have! Count on that before you show them real money!
Hermes
RNG software by Playtech, etc. , is simply that - software, and can therefore be manipulated by the Casinos.
All the systems posted on this Forum are, in the most part, based on some kind of logic - unfortunately they are battling against software which is not based on logic. You are dealing with greedy Casino owners who can manipulate their income.
You will never beat that.
I bet this guy doesn't think RNG is rigged after he won £145,000.00 on betfairs playtech roulette. He did design an ingenious roulette system remember, much better than what any of us could or ever come up with. :lol:
nolinks://nolinks.onlinecasinoreports.com/news/specialreports/2010/11/4/roulette-winner-played-football-player-number.php (nolinks://nolinks.onlinecasinoreports.com/news/specialreports/2010/11/4/roulette-winner-played-football-player-number.php)
What we can all learn from this is not to over complicate systems and keep it simple.
i really dont see why casinos need to cheat, not many people can beat rng anyway, and because of that they think its cheating.
i dont believe all casinos cheat as i have won money from rng and live.
its not easey to do but its possible.
Quote from: JohnBoy26 on March 02, 2011, 08:43:15 AM
Tracking systems tend not to work on a live casino so I've heard. But I have read on many forums that in an online casino, RNGs are programmed so that each number will appear the same number of times as the other over a long period of time. Is this true? If we knew over what kind of time scale would we not be able to make a system that accomadates this? Maybe I've got this all wrong. It's just a thought.
I think rng's are not random. It looks at your bets and bankroll. So there's no system for it.
Sometimes you may see a picture of some1 winning from roulette but who say it's from an rng?...most rng's have low tablelimits......and how many pictures do you see in total? Were are the pictures of all those people who say they have a winning system for rng's? If a picture of a rng winner is indeed true then in my mind that player won because the casino thinks it's time for a winner. People who say they have a winning system always say they don't want to show proof or win big so they don't get to much attention. So they can keep winning in the future. But think about that. On one hand you have the dude on the picture with 145.000 and on the other hand you have some1 who claim to have won 20 in 4 months with a winning system. If they truly have a winning system then in my mind they are not playing it smart. If I had a winning system I would have won a couple of 145.000 and retire. After I retire I put up my 'system' here at once so you all can profit from it. But again all those people with so called systems for rng have never ever put up any kind of proof. And the people who say rng's are random and fair also have no proof of that. Such proof is ofcourse hard to get because how would you proof that? And how would you proof it's not. Well to proof it's not is very easy...at least it was for me.
Do what you want but I say stay away from rng...better play live wheel or go to a real casino.
I've put a topic here why I do think most rng's are not random as my way of proof. If you read that topic you can clearly see some people attacking the person who started the topic instead of the proof. They have no proof what so ever that it's random and fair and they do not try my proof for themself. Why do they do that?...what's their gain from that? Why do they take the time to response? Do they wanna help others to win money from rng's? Do they have any kind of proof for what they are saying? No and no. Think about that for a minute. Also think about what is my gain to say this? Do I work for those casino's and am I scared for the systems on this forum? So I willingly say it's not random in the hope people won't play their winning systems? No and no again.
Trust me the best proof is your own eyes and brain. And a simple way of proven to yourself that rng roulette is not random and fair is this:
Pick any number...let's say 7 and bet on it progressive with the min amount (1c if possible).
Now follow let's say 25/50 spins and count how many times that number came.
Now bet progressive on all the numbers but 7.
Again follow 25/50 spins and trust me you will see so many 7s drop that it's just ridiculous.
Ofcourse you can also do this with colours, dozens etc etc.
Wanna see something like 10 reds, zero and 11 reds in a row? Do 20 random bets on numbers and dozens or whatever...then do 30 progressive bets on black...voila there's your 10 reds a zero and 11 reds in a row....now do 43 random bets....then do 30 progressive bets on black....voila there's your 10 reds a zero and 11 reds again....now do only 2 random bets...then do 30 progressive bets on black and voila.....etc etc
On rng's you can make numbers, colours, dozens etc etc appear at will...if that's not proof of not being random and fair then what is?
Quote from: harald on March 09, 2011, 11:06:05 AM
Do what you want but I say stay away from rng...better play live wheel or go to a real casino.
I've put a topic here why I do think most rng's are not random as my way of proof. If you read that topic you can clearly see some people attacking the person who started the topic instead of the proof. They have no proof what so ever that it's random and fair and they do not try my proof for themself. Why do they do that?...what's their gain from that? Why do they take the time to response? Do they wanna help others to win money from rng's? Do they have any kind of proof for what they are saying? No and no. Think about that for a minute.
Look at it this way, no one truly knows if the online casino your playing in is rigged or not. What you can do is play at the ones that pay you out your winnings and ones that show a decent record of winners. Like Victor Chandler as an example publishes its big monthly rng and live winners. nolinks://nolinks.victorchandler.com/vccasino/en-gb/pages/show/76911-big-winners (nolinks://nolinks.victorchandler.com/vccasino/en-gb/pages/show/76911-big-winners)
Or if you are completely traumatized by online gaming then don't play em. Play in a walk in casino. Simples. I reckon most people lose playing rng because of the high speed, greed and dodgy casinos they play in with reversing withdrawals because the casino deliberately delays their cashouts.
I heard most RNG's use atomospheric noise to produce the number. :yes:
Quote from: BangkokJEDI on March 09, 2011, 07:21:12 PM
I heard most RNG's use atmospheric noise to produce the number. :yes:
Random.org does but most casinos don't. Some Rival software casinos do use this method but Rival 'white label ' casinos are currently rogued like This is Vegas, Rich casino and about 30 more.
Quote from: Ulysses on March 09, 2011, 11:49:37 AM
Look at it this way, no one truly knows if the online casino your playing in is rigged or not. What you can do is play at the ones that pay you out your winnings and ones that show a decent record of winners. Like Victor Chandler as an example publishes its big monthly rng and live winners. nolinks://nolinks.victorchandler.com/vccasino/en-gb/pages/show/76911-big-winners (nolinks://nolinks.victorchandler.com/vccasino/en-gb/pages/show/76911-big-winners)
I'm not talking about casino's...i'm talking about rng roulette.
Quote from: Ulysses on March 09, 2011, 11:49:37 AM
Or if you are completely traumatized by online gaming then don't play em. Play in a walk in casino. Simples. I reckon most people lose playing rng because of the high speed, greed and dodgy casinos they play in with reversing withdrawals because the casino deliberately delays their cashouts.
?......i don't know why you say things like that.
I'm not against online gaming...i play online live wheel roulette daily and have no problem with that...i play online slots daily and have no problem with that.....and trust me the euro's i lost with rng is no problem...i'm not a schoolboy who plays his pocketmoney in the weekends....i gamble with money that i don't use for other things....so i'm not traumatized. Also that 60 euro has gave me 100% proof that rng roulette is not random and not fair. That's very cheap for a 100% proof of something in the gamblingworld.
Like i said so many times by now.....there are so many people with experience and printscreens of non randomness etc and just a handfull of people who say it's fair but have no proof what so ever. Why is that small group 'attacking' everyone who says otherwise? What do you have to gain? In my mind only 2 kinds of persons gain from that....persons who work for or own a casino...and people who think they have a winning system for rng....and are affraid that the proof that rng is not random and fair also proofs that their winning system is bull....now whats realy the problem with that?...loosing face? Affraid that others on this forum won't take you serious anymore?
But how serious do you think most people take those who only keep saying they have a winning system but don't tell what it is...and also don't have any kind of proof for it? If my proof become also the proof of those who think they have a winning system then wouldn't they be 1 step closer to a real winning system?
Again i realy like to know why do people like you respond like this? Why the 'attackmode'? Why putting words in other peoples mounths en say things without even try evidence that is presented to you on a silver plattern? Whats your gain from that?
Quote from: harald on March 10, 2011, 07:01:33 AM
Like I said so many times by now.....there are so many people with experience and printscreens of non randomness etc and just a handfull of people who say it's fair but have no proof what so ever. Why is that small group 'attacking' everyone who says otherwise? What do you have to gain? In my mind only 2 kinds of persons gain from that....persons who work for or own a casino...and people who think they have a winning system for rng....and are affraid that the proof that rng is not random and fair also proofs that their winning system is bull....now whats realy the problem with that?...losing face? Affraid that others on this forum won't take you serious anymore?
Again I realy like to know why do people like you respond like this? Why the 'attackmode'? Why putting words in other peoples mounths en say things without even try evidence that is presented to you on a silver plattern? Whats your gain from that?
For one thing, what you call "proof" isn't what you think it is. It isn't black and white as you suggest. The only place for that kind of proof is in mathematics where you can "prove" that 1 + 1 = 2. There is only evidence for and against which may be strong or weak or anywhere in between.
Just because there are more people who say OCs are cheating than not doesn't mean anything, because you have to look at the reasons why this is the case. Most players lose in the long run, so it follows that there will be more complainers than non-complainers, especially since people like to blame something outside themselves, rather than take responsibility for their lack of discipline or ignorance.
It would be better if you had some numbers or statistics to back up your claims; making sweeping statements isn't very helpful. You might have more of a case if you gave some hard evidence.
Hi Mike. I think that yes. RNG is crooked. Also I believe it is not beatable even if they were straight. Where you can see it is with the ridiculous odds you get with RNG compared to live wheels. There is a reason for that.
I don't believe it's beatable either, but I've yet to see any evidence that it's crooked. What do you mean by "ridiculous odds"? The odds are the same whether it's RNG or live wheel.
Quote from: harald on March 10, 2011, 07:01:33 AM
I'm not against online gaming...I play online live wheel roulette daily and have no problem with that...I play online slots daily and have no problem with that.....
If your playing online every day you might be developing a gambling addiction. I would take a break from it, even if your doing really well. It usually takes a turn for the worst later on, that's the nature of gambling. :beach:
If the RNG of an online casino is manupilated it is not a Random Number Generator.The software used by the casinos can be manipulated through which the outcome is not random and depends on the betting.
Quote from: schoenpoetser on March 11, 2011, 09:03:06 AM
If the RNG of an online casino is manupilated it is not a Random Number Generator.The software used by the casinos can be manipulated through which the outcome is not random and depends on the betting.
Prove it!
Folks make all kinds of crazy claims here all the time and get away without offering supporting links - I'd like to see a link, and not one from a UFO website, where casinos screw around with the RNG or outcome of the thousands of RNGs they have in their casino.
One link please.....
Yes i have noticed that online casinos using RNG have a cunning system to beat us all the time. After hours of play i have seen that they take into consideration the system you are playing AND YOUR BALANCE!!! They calculate how much they can let you win before killing you off. Or else how can you explain that a bet EVEN 10 times and lose all the time and then i move to ODD 10 times and lose also!!!!
Quote from: klasnos on March 14, 2011, 07:48:46 AM
Yes I have noticed that online casinos using RNG have a cunning system to beat us all the time. After hours of play I have seen that they take into consideration the system you are playing AND YOUR BALANCE!!! They calculate how much they can let you win before killing you off. Or else how can you explain that a bet EVEN 10 times and lose all the time and then I move to ODD 10 times and lose also!!!!
Then try " Hours of Play" at a B & M casino and tell us all about it. :sarcastic:
N.D.
:) Definately has no memory.
I told it the other day where my local bar was located.
I asked it the very next day where that bar was, just silence. No answer. Definately no memory.
For me no difference between RNG and Real wheel
If you stay long enough both strip your cloths off... :rtfm:
Quote from: MauiSunset on March 11, 2011, 02:39:22 PM
Prove it!
Folks make all kinds of crazy claims here all the time and get away without offering supporting links - I'd like to see a link, and not one from a UFO website, where casinos screw around with the RNG or outcome of the thousands of RNGs they have in their casino.
One link please.....
It won't be proof, because that would take looking at the software's source code. But my software will beat honest casinos. If it consistently loses to on-line RNG players then it's cheating. Enough players will confirm this. Reputations will effect the bottom lines for these cheating casinos. They won't see this coming. Great advertising for me too. I guess there is no point in arguing with you and Cheese anymore. See you all later. I've got work to do.
Quote from: Allin on March 14, 2011, 10:12:36 AM
For me no difference between RNG and Real wheel
If you stay long enough both strip your cloths off... :rtfm:
CONGRATULATIONS on your statement. This sums it up very well.
For this you shall get flak from the dorks. You have destroyed a myth.
Because they believe it`s the crooked RNG and / or the crooked dealers and rigged wheels responsible for their losses.
Nathan Detroit.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 14, 2011, 10:40:50 AM
But my software will beat honest casinos.
Bad news on the horizon Gizmotronic. Honest OC's are starting to ban these
roulette bot thingy's you use and confiscate your winnings. Which seems kind of ridiculous as a bot doesn't gain you an advantage as the game is random with a 2.7% he. What will you botty boys do now?
nolinks://nolinks.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/43001-betsson-seized-my-deposit-1100-euro.html (nolinks://nolinks.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/43001-betsson-seized-my-deposit-1100-euro.html)
Quote from: Nathan Detroit on March 14, 2011, 12:44:03 PM
CONGRATULATIONS on your statement. This sums it up very well.
For this you shall get flak from the dorks. You have destroyed a myth.
Because they believe it`s the crooked RNG and / or the crooked dealers and rigged wheels responsible for their losses.
Nathan Detroit.
That's made me laugh. Thanks ND :laugh:
Quote from: Ulysses on March 14, 2011, 12:44:13 PM
Bad news on the horizon Gizmotronic. Honest OC's are starting to ban these roulette bot thingy's you use and confiscate your winnings. Which seems kind of ridiculous as a bot doesn't gain you an advantage as the game is random with a 2.7% he. What will you botty boys do now?
nolinks://nolinks.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/43001-betsson-seized-my-deposit-1100-euro.html (nolinks://nolinks.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/43001-betsson-seized-my-deposit-1100-euro.html)
Your assumption would be right if my software was just another bot. But it's not. It's instructional software that make bet recommendations. You enter your own spins while you play on-line. So having two screens might be a nice feature. My software will never connect to the internet. It's a free standing computer application. It does not use internet application methods.
I have wrote it before,I did not lost a session on my RNG internet casino.I published my results in the topic Rouletteplayersclub.It is a pity the downloads are no longer suitable.Till now nobody has attacked me or has called me a liar.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 14, 2011, 10:40:50 AM
It won't be proof, because that would take looking at the software's source code. But my software will beat honest casinos. If it consistently loses to on-line RNG players then it's cheating. Enough players will confirm this. Reputations will effect the bottom lines for these cheating casinos. They won't see this coming. Great advertising for me too. I guess there is no point in arguing with you and Cheese anymore. See you all later. I've got work to do.
I use online casinos for testing purposes only - I would never think of playing for real money online unless it were a Vegas casino online. Someday Vegas will be online but for right now no US casino has an online version. Until this happens I won't use the online casino for anything but testing systems.
I play for fun thousands of spins/hands but eventually play for real money at $1 per hand/spin so I put up real money and see how the system feels. Then I go to Vegas and gamble for real.
So if you are worried about gambling online, just don't use them for real gambling....
Maui,
Was it you who mentioned the link to nolinks://nolinks.smartlivecasino.com/welcome.html (nolinks://nolinks.smartlivecasino.com/welcome.html) ? this was the best I EVER picked
up in all my years on any forum. ( None of the system ever interested me)
Having been practically under house arrest here in the NE USA due to the bad winter weather I was able to spent time practicing some of my methods for the single 0 wheel should I ever again encounter a live single 0 wheel. .
Not only that, the 2 hours live baccarat ( my equal favorite) are a great value.
Black Jack ,the third game live game , is also being offered and is deserving a a few hands.
Let`s not forget Aya, Suzanne, Roisin, Elpeth those lovely birds from the UK :yahoo:
So for your mentioning this site may the Goddes of Fortune open the horn of plenty for you and does not ask back so soon what she has given . :ok:
Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
I play SmartLive every day, both the live and the bot version. I test systems out there only.
Quote from: Gizmotron on March 14, 2011, 02:08:20 PM
Your assumption would be right if my software was just another bot. But it's not. It's instructional software that make bet recommendations. You enter your own spins while you play on-line. So having two screens might be a nice feature. My software will never connect to the internet. It's a free standing computer application. It does not use internet application methods.
I stand corrected. If you manually enter your bets then big brother will be non the wiser. Also what makes your robot unique from the other bots. Is it just guess work or can you really predict the unpredictable next spin result. :scratch_ones_head:
Quote from: Ulysses on March 15, 2011, 12:41:46 PM
I stand corrected. If you manually enter your bets then big brother will be non the wiser. Also what makes your robot unique from the other bots. Is it just guess work or can you really predict the unpredictable next spin result. :scratch_ones_head:
My method of play can't predict next spin outcomes. That would be impossible. But my method can play like it can predict future spins when trends continue to happen. There is a difference. It can also avoid ineffective streaks too. That's enough to beat a casino. It's just playing it smart for those that lack experience and savvy skills. It's meant to teach these skills. Seeing how it's not legal to go on-line in America to gamble, and it's also not legal to use a computer at a B&M live casino the player must do all this by acquired skill, hence my brainless tutor. I'm just filling a need.
I got that strange feeling there is a lot of paranoia involved that the casinos counter your play.Let me repeat what I have said in another post the losers blame the on line casino are manipulated and the B & M croupier is a crook or the wheel is rigged.
Nathan Detroit
Quote from: Nathan Detroit on March 15, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
I got that strange feeling there is a lot of paranoia involved that the casinos counter your play.Let me repaetwhat I said in another post the losers blame the on line casino are manipulated and the B & M croupier is a crook or the wheel is rigged.
Nathan Detroit
Yep, I agree. All new players look for magical things that caused them to lose. But regarding a cheating RNG at an online casino. If there is no regulatory controls then there is no danger to the casino if it does cheat.
All you need to kill off most players is to throw them a cold streak. So when one happens, naturally because of common randomness, then the new player wants to blame the devil. Common losing streaks just happen. That's the nature of playing Roulette.
Quote from: Nathan Detroit on March 15, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
I got that strange feeling there is a lot of paranoia involved that the casinos counter your play.Let me repaetwhat I said in another post the losers blame the on line casino are manipulated and the B & M croupier is a crook or the wheel is rigged.
Nathan Detroit
This documentary is proof of cheating casinos - Casablanca - Bulgarian Couple (nolinks://nolinks.youtube.com/watch?v=3XW_1BRKKYg#noexternalembed)
How much MORE proof does one need ? :ok:
N.D
I'm not 100% that RNGs are manipulated. I think that is down to paranoia of the player. Think about it. A large percentage of roulette players lose. So the chances are you are likely to hear stories from the losing players about "how roulette online is rigged". I don't think it is as a matter of fact. The roulette table is set in the casinos favour even with a plain random number generator. The odds are in their favour and no matter what happens, the casino will make a massive profit. They simply don't need to rig their software as the mathematics of the game will bring home the profits for the casino.
Having said that, I'm not suggesting that roulette online cannot be beaten. All casino games pay off. Only a small percentage of players will see that payout though. So in roulette's case, If there are so many losing players, there are bound to be quite a few who win. Surely?
Many folks here live in the Twilight Zone - you bring all this upon yourselves.
- You use junk science and math as the foundation of your systems.
- You lose money with those phony systems.
- Therefore the casinos must be cheating.
I feel sorry for you folks; I guess in a perverted way that makes perfect sense to you......
Neither Messieurs Pascal nor Einstein could have calculated that the outcome of the NEXT spin would be for example 22 Black.
But the mathboyzz of today claim that the only way to win is to "win with math". To that I say beam me up.
If we can`t beat the casinos , then we should see to it that we make it difficult for them to beat us.
Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
its not difficult for the casinos at all.
really its the table, its always playing against the table.
********If we can`t beat the casinos , then we should see to it that we make it difficult for them to beat us.
*****
Let us substitute table for casino and see to it that we don`t get beaten by the table and by the asme token let us not outsmart the wheel either. :ok:<<<<<<<<<< The last senetrnce is also a reminder for for the mathboyzz.
I believe you understood what I was saying.
N.D.
Quote********If we can`t beat the casinos , then we should see to it that we make it difficult for them to beat us.
*****
These things are design for players to lose. I mean, at the end of the day, the house always win. (https://www.vlsroulette.com/proxy.php?request=nolinkss%3A%2F%2Fimagicon.info%2Fcat%2F10-3%2Fsmile2.png&hash=471c4bfde9a8eaaecc106f26429c893406565ad6)
Having said that, I'm not suggesting that roulette online cannot be beaten. All casino games pay off. Only a small percentage of players will see that payout though. So in roulette's case, If there are so many losing players, there are bound to be quite a few who win. Surely
Correct Johnboy