Assuming that you know how to see a trend and how to place bets for it to win. What
should you do if the bets don't work? It will happen if you use trends to make bet
selections. I've recently dropped following the EC's and added several more groups
of dozens to follow. In a practice session last night I lost every bet for 21 spins in a
row. The obvious conclusion would be to observe that trends don't work. At least
they don't work sometimes. So now I'm going to share what it is I do exactly to
deal with it when that happens.
Spike likes to claim I don't know what I'm doing. In contrast I think flat betting
only is ridiculous. That's what he does. I like to pay for my chair at the table. If
I don't place bets then I have to give up my spot at the table. It costs me at a
minimum $5 every two minutes to buy that seat at the table. So my playing style
is to bet at least the minimum in order to keep it. Some of you have the option
to sit out bets and take spins without placing bets. That works too.
I prefer to be at the table at the prime location where I can rapidly place bets
in any location as fast as I want to and without asking for assistance from the
dealer. So when I enter the game I slowly work my way over to the middle seat
on the main side or the end seat next to the post that prevents leaning too close
to the dealer. From those two positions I can easily reach all the bet locations.
This has caused me to adapt a two level bet technique. When the trends don't
work I make payments on the seat. When they do work I attack at the higher
level. You can't force randomness to continue to follow the trends. Sometimes
they will stop continuing in the zone that you are most comfortable placing first
bets following them. Like I just said. I lost 21 bets in a row attempting to follow
trends. Now that includes adjusting to different trends and even losing the minimum
bets on red or black. It was straight down. John Patrick would have quit at three and out.
I can't . If I want to keep that seat and be there when the trends are working then I need
to minimize the damage while it occurs. I know that I will hit two to three sequences of
spins that will continuously win for from 15 to 30 spins in a row. I play for about five hours
at a time. I must capitalise on these moments. It's easy to become comfortable with these
conditions. I've never had a five hour session that did not have at least one win streak. I
have several thousand hours of real playing experience acquired over the past 35+ years
of playing.
Sometimes it's not so clear that the trends are not working. It takes a more
adjile form of adjustment. The losses are mixed with winners. These are
sometimes good times too. If this condition acts consistently for several
hours then you can play off it successfully by attacking in short bursts.
Now to deny the use of the attacking level by restricting yourself to flat
betting only is to limit your effectiveness with regards to basic
randomness. When the above stated conditions are consistent then the
option to get into the correct rhythm is nearly pointless if you are stuck
with flat betting only. There must be a time when flat betting is optimal.
Only that condition is never permanent. In fact none of the primary
conditions are permanent. Agility, awareness, and attack & retreat are
the cornerstone of excellent trend play.
There, I got it all in before coming under attack of the cheese spread. ...basta
I don`t think that Scoby ( Scoblete) worries about the trend anymore. Has the anti trend/ charting revolution begun?
Just asking. :ok:
N.D.
Quote from: Nathan Detroit on June 17, 2012, 02:20:06 PM
Has the anti trend/ charting revolution begun?
Just asking. :ok:
I hope so. I'm counting on people figuring things out after I'm done. Not only
do I know how to win but I'm pretty good at judging human nature too.
For those that wish to take a scientific approach. These are the proper steps:
1. Learn to identify at least twenty independently yet connected sets of dozens.
2. Chart these groupings so that sleeper dozens can be identified instantly.
3. Learn how to recognise when placing bets on sleepers is winning.
4. Learn how to deal with when placing bets on sleepers ends up in losses.
5. Develop a money management method that includes the necessity to
minimize losses while losses are in a dominant state. Learn how to recognize
the flow of normal everyday randomness so that you can see these changing
conditions.
6. Go out and make millions without drawing attention to your success.
7. Lament your grand achievement as Roulette, Black Jack, Baccarat, and Craps
all become an activity only available in history.
8. What the heck? Give it up with those mindless systems. There is no number eight.
OK then if you must have a rule. Here it is. A loss is a huge indicator in a
randomness system. It indicates the end of every perfect sequence of any
kind of a trend. It indicates the beginning of change if the condition were
perfectly occurring in the positive. It could easily be part of a perfectly
occurring pattern too. But that is very rare. It's the perfect time to pull
in their horns. Now you have a basic rule.
Quote from: crackers on June 17, 2012, 01:41:04 PM
This has caused me to adapt a two level bet technique. When the trends don't
work I make payments on the seat. When they do work I attack at the higher
level. You can't force randomness to continue to follow the trends. Sometimes
they will stop continuing in the zone that you are most comfortable placing first
bets following them. Like I just said. I lost 21 bets in a row attempting to follow
trends. Now that includes adjusting to different trends and even losing the minimum
bets on red or black. It was straight down. John Patrick would have quit at three and out.
I can't . If I want to keep that seat and be there when the trends are working then I need
to minimize the damage while it occurs. I know that I will hit two to three sequences of
spins that will continuously win for from 15 to 30 spins in a row. I play for about five hours
at a time. I must capitalise on these moments. It's easy to become comfortable with these
conditions. I've never had a five hour session that did not have at least one win streak. I
have several thousand hours of real playing experience acquired over the past 35+ years
of playing.
-Interesting listening.Very similar here 50+years of continous playing.All ears.Thanks
I just played a session where I noticed the low numbers dominating so I started with a $10 chip on low and went up $10 on a win and down $10 on a loss, with a few hold bets. I bet 40 times in 48 spins (yes there was a bet selection filter). The last bet I placed was $180 on low, it lost and I stopped. Won 28 bets and lost 12 bets. Finished $1310 in front.
No amount of mathboyz logic can deny the fact that attacking a strong trend can be very profitable.
Crackers, you say a loss can indicate change or the end of a trend but in this session the low numbers continued to dominate strongly even though there were losses sprinkled through the results. Any pattern all but disappeared, yet the Low numbers kept on hitting with enough regularity to maintain profitability without any clear trend or pattern. For example at one point mid session there were 4 Highs in row and that would indicate it could be all over, but it was followed up by 9 Lows in a row.
Bombus, that's such a true to life experience. Your instincts told you to keep going.
You noticed that the bigger picture trend was still dominant. That is why it takes
experience to play randomness style. You noticed how trends don't have to be
perfect to be profitable. These are the kind of discussions I've been hoping to have
for more than a year. I would have told you that you just experienced an excellent
example of the global effect. In that session the over all dominance was that the
session was favoring the low numbers strongly. There are many ways to attack a
perceived advantage . You might have just gone boldly with 100 unit bets, when you
placed bets.
Quote from: bombus on June 20, 2012, 01:42:15 AM
the low numbers continued to dominate strongly
You're not seeing a trend, you're seeing the result
of the high numbers sleeping. Nobody can predict
when a trend will begin or end, no matter what
baloney they try and feed you. Sleeping numbers
however, have a tendency to keep sleeping and are
much more reliable than trying to be Kreskin and
and make up silly rules about when trends will end.
Roulette has no rules, for the hundredth time..
Wow! Father Roulette has been taken over by space aliens. Arguing
semantics in order to lay a red herring in the trail is too obvious. But what the heck, let's
see where this all goes. What's the difference between a domination of the low numbers
and sleeping high numbers? And the other argument over having a rule that applies to
how trends come to an end? IN VIEW OF THESE TWO QUESTIONS HOW COULD SPIKE /
CHEESE SAY HE READS RANDOM? That's a question that must be answered now.
For the record a trend does not have to be occurring perfectly for it to be an
opportunity that can be exploited. It just takes an experienced player to take
advantage of the condition. Rules never fit every situation. But they do apply
when a first loss occurs that ends up breaking the end of a chain of a perfect
occurring trend.
:
Quote from: cheese on June 20, 2012, 11:46:23 AM
You're not seeing a trend, you're seeing the result
of the high numbers sleeping. Nobody can predict
when a trend will begin or end, no matter what
baloney they try and feed you. Sleeping numbers
however, have a tendency to keep sleeping and are
much more reliable than trying to be Kreskin and
and make up silly rules about when trends will end.
Roulette has no rules, for the hundredth time..
Quote from: crackers on June 20, 2012, 12:18:12 PM
And the other argument over having a rule that applies to
how trends come to an end? IN VIEW OF THESE TWO QUESTIONS HOW COULD SPIKE /
CHEESE SAY HE READS RANDOM? That's a question that must be answered now.
You really expect Cheese to tell ??
Have you forgot his "no wising up a chump" policy ?
Quote from: xman1970 on June 20, 2012, 12:53:05 PM
You really expect Cheese to tell ??
Have you forgot his "no wising up a chump" policy ?
How can you wise anyone up if he doesn't actually know himself? Let's
at least stipulate that "trends" are an all inclusive aspect of randomness.
I don't wish to digress in a discussion of the meaning of trends. That
has been done to death over the past few years.
Quote from: crackers on June 20, 2012, 12:18:12 PM
Rules never fit every situation. But they do apply
when a first loss occurs
:
Confucious Say:
He who applies rules to random outcomes
has big surprise waiting at casino for him.
Quote from: cheese on June 20, 2012, 06:22:33 PM
Confucious Say:
He who applies rules to random outcomes
has big surprise waiting at casino for him.
More like Confusion Say...
Do tell oh mighty roulette master. What should people do when a first loss
occurs during a longer win streak?
Do tell oh mighty roulette master. What should people do when a first loss
occurs during a longer win streak?
Mighty Roulette master will tell you to get of the friggin table and enjoy fruits of accomplishment.
TSI-NAN -FU
Confucius Say:
Even a turtle only makes progress when it sticks its neck out.
Quote from: crackers on June 20, 2012, 06:34:33 PM
What should people do when a first loss
occurs during a longer win streak?
What should they do? Do what they want. Don't do
anything, stay, go home, go eat dinner. Whats the
difference.
Either you know how to make winning bets or you
don't. Your question is inane.
Quote from: cheese on June 20, 2012, 07:00:56 PM
What should they do? Do what they want. Don't do
anything, stay, go home, go eat dinner. Whats the
difference.
Either you know how to make winning bets or you
don't. Your question is inane.
Yeah right. More nothingness from the biggest nowhere man since the
Beatles.
Quote from: crackers on June 20, 2012, 06:34:33 PM
What should people do when a first loss
occurs during a longer win streak?
I don't know what a 'win streak' is. You see a bet,
you make the bet and win, you move on. There
are no streaks, just correct betting decisions. Each
bet is different from the last bet. They aren't
connected. And because they aren't connected, a
loss just means you made the wrong betting decision.
Other than that, its meaningless. The way you have
it, its like all the bets are somehow connected. Explain
how thats possible with random outcomes. You have a
long way to go in understanding how random works.
Quote from: cheese on June 20, 2012, 08:25:27 PM
I don't know what a 'win streak' is. You see a bet,
you make the bet and win, you move on. There
are no streaks, just correct betting decisions. Each
bet is different from the last bet. They aren't
connected. And because they aren't connected, a
loss just means you made the wrong betting decision.
Other than that, its meaningless. The way you have
it, its like all the bets are somehow connected. Explain
how thats possible with random outcomes. You have a
long way to go in understanding how random works.
Gizmo,
It's easy to see that Spike is not playing trends like you. He is playing and reacting on a spin by spin basis as a random stream would typically act. Randomness has characteristics that can be taken advantage of if you know what to look for, such as a typical random stream often has many short 'runs' and fewer longer 'runs.' Using this info alone with experience, guessing what will happen next can often be done at a better than 50% clip on the even chances. In practice today I've achieved +5 units flat betting in 20 consecutive games. You have to know when to stay away from chaotic strings, and play only within the strings that are producing more random-like results.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on June 20, 2012, 10:27:19 PM
Gizmo,
It's east to see that Spike is not playing trends like you. He is playing and reacting on a spin by spin basis as a random stream would typically act. Randomness has characteristics that can be taken advantage of if you know what to look for, such as a typical random stream often has many short 'runs' and fewer longer 'runs.' Using this info alone with experience, guessing what will happen next can often be done at a better than 50% clip on the even chances. In practice today I've achieved +5 units flat betting in 20 consecutive games. You have to know when to stay away from chaotic strings, and play only within the strings that are producing more random-like results.
My game today went for 51 bets. I achieved 31w - 20L...not bad. I must say that I find it easier to pick the right bets when those (many short 'runs') as you call them, go missing in action.
Quote from: bombus on June 21, 2012, 12:38:08 AM
My game today went for 51 bets. I achieved 31w - 20L...not bad. I must say that I find it easier to pick the right bets when those (many short 'runs') as you call them, go missing in action.
If you are winning better when short runs go missing, it sounds like you are playing streaks in trends?
That's not what im doing, I'm not looking at trends, im having more success looking at the entire sequence (15 spins) and playing one spin at a time, thinking and playing the way randomness might act. It's just a guess, but im guessing more right than wrong.
I'M the one leading a discussion on what randomness is. You
are the ever present disrupting detractor that hardly ever
offers anything of value. If I chose to select streaks as a form
or characteristic of randomness why should you go off
comparing apples & oranges in order to make another one
of your pointless offerings of wisdom?
Quote from: cheese on June 20, 2012, 08:25:27 PM
I don't know what a 'win streak' is. You see a bet,
you make the bet and win, you move on. There
are no streaks, just correct betting decisions. Each
bet is different from the last bet. They aren't
connected. And because they aren't connected, a
loss just means you made the wrong betting decision.
Other than that, its meaningless. The way you have
it, its like all the bets are somehow connected. Explain
how thats possible with random outcomes. You have a
long way to go in understanding how random works.
Quote from: ll l ll l lll ll on June 20, 2012, 10:27:19 PMIn practice today I've achieved +5 units flat betting in 20 consecutive games. You have to know when to stay away from chaotic strings, and play only within the strings that are producing more random-like results.
I use the dozens to seek grand opportunities. I use the flat bet with the red/black
to wait for those opportunistic moments. I played for two years flat betting the
EC's only. I'm very good at it. If people want to talk about the characteristics of
the even chance bets then go for it. Just for the sake of discussion, 12 reds in a
row better end up as a win streak or you might want to try some other form of
excitement.
Quote from: crackers on June 21, 2012, 06:23:57 PM
...12 reds in a row better end up as a win streak or you might want to try some other form of
excitement.
Have to agree with this one.
So as far as dozens go, when they are pingponging back and forth across the 3 dozens with a string of singles do you find it as easily managed as when 1 or even 2 dozens are sleeping? Personally I don't like betting on 2 dozens so the singles are too chaotic for me.
Quote from: bombus on June 21, 2012, 06:53:53 PM
So as far as dozens go, when they are pingponging back and forth across the 3 dozens with a string of singles do you find it as easily managed as when 1 or even 2 dozens are sleeping? Personally I don't like betting on 2 dozens so the singles are too chaotic for me.
A streak of singles is great. I love it. This is strange though. One of the
dozens may sleep for 15+ spins while a streak of singles will only last
for 10+ spins. It's very rare to see longer stretches of singles. The golden
opportunity is a combination of a sleeping dozen and singles in the other
two active dozens. While it happens you should bet as much as you can
on the obvious choice.
Quote from: crackers on June 21, 2012, 06:07:32 PM
I'M the one leading a discussion on what randomness is.
And its rather like letting the tone deaf guy
lead the choir. Fingernails on a blackboard.
Quote from: crackers on June 21, 2012, 06:23:57 PM
I played for two years flat betting the
EC's only. I'm very good at it.
As good as you are with dozens, like in the contest?
Staggering accomplishment.
Quote from: cheese on June 21, 2012, 07:46:25 PM
And its rather like letting the tone deaf guy
lead the choir. Fingernails on a blackboard.
Gee Wiz - is that supposed to be clever? So what does the primadonna in
a tutu sound like?
Quote from: cheese on June 21, 2012, 07:48:52 PM
As good as you are with dozens, like in the contest?
Staggering accomplishment.
Just as staggering as your accomplishments in that same competition.