hi to all members.
i have looked at various ways of betting, systems and money management. After reading hundreds of topics and posts i have come to the decision i want to try and find a way of playing using oscars grind. i am not an impulse player and prefer to really grind out the profits. i hope to find out how people play using the oscars grind for instance what sytem they use with it or what bet selection for instace playing the outside bets.
i dont have a huge bankroll to play with. maximum of 200 gbp. i can play on dublinbet or bet 365 as these both have small minimum bets. i say thank you in advnce for any advice given.
dj
dj
You must realize that Oscar can get out of hand if you get a winner and several losers, and winner and several losers, and so on and on. Each winner increases your bet and the losers eat your bankroll.
Sam
thanks for advice two cat. after having read posts from victor i thought he said it was quite steady. i have obviously missed some key information. what kind of way would you recomend to play with someone with a relatively small bankroll? i see you are very in to the 4 seclecta method at the moment. how is that going??
dj
The Selecta4 is my primary area of testing/study. It is slow and tedious, but I have faith. It is going well.
In my opinion, there is no bet that is better than another bet for Oscar's Grind. In any trot you can have this: LLLLWLLLLWLLLLLWWLLLLLLLWLLLW
Any even-money bet can and surely will do that. I've seen it many, many times. Also the field in craps will do it. Player will do it in baccarat. Flipping a coin will do it.
Now the bad part is when you winning: WWWWLWWLWWLLWWWWWLWWWW you are winnning at the lowest level as you keep going back to 1 unit. So when you win, you win minimally; when you lose, you lose big.
Sam
in that case then what money management system would you recomend?
flat betting
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 20, 2008, 01:03:56 PM
The Selecta4 is my primary area of testing/study. It is slow and tedious, but I have faith. It is going well.
In my opinion, there is no bet that is better than another bet for Oscar's Grind. In any trot you can have this: LLLLWLLLLWLLLLLWWLLLLLLLWLLLW
Any even-money bet can and surely will do that. I've seen it many, many times. Also the field in craps will do it. Player will do it in baccarat. Flipping a coin will do it.
Now the bad part is when you winning: WWWWLWWLWWLLWWWWWLWWWW you are winnning at the lowest level as you keep going back to 1 unit. So when you win, you win minimally; when you lose, you lose big.
Sam
Sam.
Good point You make there Mate.
And to further add to Your observation.
Lets Compare Oscars Grind to what I call the Advanced Divisor Plan for the Even Chances.
I have not posted this before because there has not been a lot of interest shown in the easier Divisor Plans I have posted in the past.
To be frank I sometimes think I would be better off pissing into the wind.......
However Because I have the Forum at heart I will keep doing what I consider to be the right thing.
1-L=6/6=1=7 lost........................................ (Oscars 1–1)
2-L=6/7=2=9 lost........................................ (Oscars 1–2)
3-L=7/9=2=11 lost........................................(Os 1–3)
4-L=7/11=2=13 lost.................................... (Os 1–4)
5-W=8/13=2=15 won-4=11.......................(Os 1-3)
6-L=7/11=2=13 lost ...................................(Os 2-5)
7-L=7/13=2=15 lost ....................................(Os 2-7)
8-L=8/15=2=17 lost ...................................(Os 2-9)
9-L=8/17=3=20 lost ....................................(Os 2-11)
10-W=9/20=3=23 Won-6=17 .................. (Os 2-9)
11-L=8/17=3=20 lost ..................................(Os 3-12)
12-L=8/20=3=23 lost ..................................(Os 3-15)
13-L=9/23=3=26 lost ..................................(Os 3-18)
14-L=9/26=3=29 lost .................................(Os 3-21)
15-L=10/29=3=32 lost ...............................(Os 3-24)
16-W=10/32=4=36 Won-8=28.................(Os 3-21)
17-W=9/28=4=32 Won-8=24....................(Os 4-17)
18-L=8/24=3=27 lost ..................................(Os 5-22)
19-L=8/27=4=31 lost ..................................(Os 5-27)
20-L=9/31=4=35 lost ..................................(Os 5-32)
21-L=9/35=4=39 lost ..................................(Os 5-37)
22-L=10/39=4=43 lost ...............................(Os 5-42)
23-L=10/43=5=48 lost ...............................(Os 5-47)
24-L=11/48=5=53 lost ...............................(Os 5-52)
25-W=11/53=5=58 Won-10=48 ..............(Os 5-47)
26-L=10/48=5=53 Lost ...............................(Os 6-53)
27-L=10/53=6=59 lost ................................(Os 6-59)
28-L=11/59=6=65 lost ................................(Os 6-65)
29-W=11/65=6=71 Won-12=59................(Os 6-59)
So after 29 spins & only 6 winners
The six point is 59-6 win Target is losing 53 units
Oscars is losing 59 units.
Now lets see what happens with the rest of Sam's Lw Notations.
..................................................................................................
30-W=10/59=6=65 Won-12=53...............(Os 7-52)
31-W=9/53=6=59 Won-12=47.................(Os 8-44)
32-W=8/47=6=53 Won-12=41.................(Os 9-35)
33-W=7/41=6=47 Won-12=35.................(Os 10-25)
34-L=6/35=6=41 lost..................................(Os 11-36)
35-W=6/41=7=48 Won-14=34.................(Os 11-25)
36-W=5/34=7=41 won-14=27.................(Os 12-13)
37-L=4/27=7=34 lost..................................(Os 13-26)
38-W=4/34=9=43 Won-18=25.................(Os 13-13)
39-W=3/25=9=34 Won-18=16..................(Os 14=+{1}
Divisor is now 2/16 we add the safety brake of 2/6 like this
2/16+ safety brake
2/6
..............
4/22=6 to bet ( now the win target is 12)
...........................
40-L=4/22=6=28 lost..................................(Os 1-1)
41-L=4/28=7=35 lost..................................(Os 1-2)
42-W=5/35=7=42 Won-14=28....................(Os 1-1)
43-W=4/28=7=35 Won-14=21.....................(Os 2=+1+1={2}
44-W=3/21=7=28 Won-14=14.....................(Os 1=+1+2={3}
Divisor now at 2/14 so we add another safety Brake of 2/6 like this
2/14+
2/6
........................
4/20=5 to bet the win target is now (18)
...........................
45-W=4/20=5=25 Won-10=15................................(Os 1+3={4}
46-W=3/15=5=20 Won-10=10-(18)={8}Profit..(Os 1+4={5}
Divisor is now 2/10
But because our win Target was 18 & we only had 10 left to get.
That gives us a total of +{8} Profit.
So we won't tempt fate & we start again.
After all we originally set out to win 6 units and we have {8} so far.
47-L=6/6=1=7 lost.............................................................(Os 1-1)
48-W=6/7=2=9 Won-4=5.................................................(Os 1-0)
49-W=5/5=1=6 Won-2=4.................................................(Os 1+5={6}
50-W=4/4=1=5 Won-2=3.................................................(Os 1+6={7}
51-W=3/3=1=4 won-2=2-(6)=4+8={12} profit.........(Os 1+7={8}
(#Note we would have won 24 Units with the Divisor if we had not started again)
Ok Now at First Glance it appears that there is very little difference between Oscars & the Divisor Plan.
After all Oscar won 8 and the Divisor won 12.
However things are not always as they appear to be.
Lets look at this a little closer.
Divisor outlay was 220 for a win of 12 units....
Oscars was 222 for a win of 8 units.
Divisor won 5.45% on outlay...Oscars was 3.6%
Divisors biggest bet was 9...Oscars was 14
Divisor never had a bet over 9...Oscars had 7 bets of 10 & over
Same amount of bets Yet the Divisor wins 50% more then Oscars.
Now lets turn them into $10 units & that means we have won $40 more.
Good On Ya Mate
Lanky
Lanky
You know, you're right! I have neglected two people on this forum: you and mr. j.
I'm going to learn this latest divisor front and back. Put it away; the wind is not blowing!
OK, first question (Are you sure you're up for this?):
"18-L=8/24=3=27 lost ..................................(Os 5-22)" Normally 8/24 means "8 divided by 24" but in your case it means "24 divided by 8". Is that much correct?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 21, 2008, 09:01:56 AM
Lanky
You know, you're right! I have neglected two people on this forum: you and mr. j.
I'm going to learn this latest divisor front and back. Put it away; the wind is not blowing!
OK, first question (Are you sure you're up for this?):
"18-L=8/24=3=27 lost ..................................(Os 5-22)" Normally 8/24 means "8 divided by 24" but in your case it means "24 divided by 8". Is that much correct?
Sam
Samster.
Your 100% correct Mate.
LeBear woke me up to the fact that you guys do your Division back to front compared to how we were taught at school out here in Australia. ( I guess this would account for the lack of response too Mate)
Yes mate 8/24=3 Means 24 divided by 8=3.
Quote"Put it Back the wind is not Blowing"
Hhahahahahhahahahahah Rotflmao.
Love Ya Brother.
Lanky
Lanky
I find this system quite easy to grasp. Only a couple of questions:
1-L=6/6=1=7 lost........................................ (Oscars 1–1)........you start with an "assumed" loss of 6. You lose bet #1 and it goes to 7. Correct?
2-L=6/7=2=9 lost........................................ (Oscars 1–2)........now your bet goes to 2 units and you need 9 to close the trot.
3-L=7/9=2=11 lost........................................(Os 1–3).............now I notice your divisor goes up 1 and you add 2 more units to the win target.
Here's a question: Is this trot for a 2-1 like dozens? Is that why your divisor goes up 1 every 2 spins?
4-L=7/11=2=13 lost.................................... (Os 1–4)
5-W=8/13=2=15 won-4=11.......................(Os 1-3).................so it would seem as your 2u bet returns 4u here.
6-L=7/11=2=13 lost ...................................(Os 2-5).................I notice your divisor drops by 1
7-L=7/13=2=15 lost ....................................(Os 2-7)
8-L=8/15=2=17 lost ...................................(Os 2-9)..................divisor goes up by 1.
If we're talking a 2-1 bet here, let's just focus on that and I'll ask about 1-1 later.
If I summed up, you start with a divisor of 6 and a win target of 6 which gives a 1u bet.
When you lose a unit, you add that loss to the win target. Or if you lose 2, 3 or whatever, you add that amount to the win target.
When you lose twice, you raise your divisor by 1.
When you win once, you drop your divisor by 1 and reduce your win target by the amount won.
When you divide, you round up to the nearest unit.
Now, as to the safety brake. When does it apply? Is there a set formula, like when the bet gets too high for your comfort?
Well, it's four in the morning here in Oklahoma. Guess I'll toddle of to bed again.
Your time is appreciated!!
Sam
Lanky
I find this system quite easy to grasp. Only a couple of questions:
That's Great Sam
1-L=6/6=1=7 lost........................................ (Oscars 1–1)........you start with an "assumed" loss of 6. You lose bet #1 and it goes to 7. Correct?
Yes Correct except that its an assumed Win ( that is yet to be Won )
2-L=6/7=2=9 lost........................................ (Oscars 1–2)........now your bet goes to 2 units and you need 9 to close the trot.
Yes Correct Mate
3-L=7/9=2=11 lost........................................(Os 1–3).............now I notice your divisor goes up 1 and you add 2 more units to the win target.
Yes ..For every 2 lost bets the Divisor goes up 1
And the 2 added units to the Win Target was the lost Bet
Here's a question: Is this trot for a 2-1 like dozens? Is that why your divisor goes up 1 every 2 spins?
No Mate
This is for Betting on the Evens.
If it was for a single Dozen bet we would put the Divisor up 1 after every 4 lost bets in a row instead of every 2 lost bets.
4-L=7/11=2=13 lost.................................... (Os 1–4)
5-W=8/13=2=15 won-4=11.......................(Os 1-3).................so it would seem as your 2u bet returns 4u here.
Yes Mate Correct 2 Bet and it wins so there is a 4 unit return.
6-L=7/11=2=13 lost ...................................(Os 2-5).................I notice your divisor drops by 1
Yes Mate after every win we drop the Divisor by 1.
7-L=7/13=2=15 lost ....................................(Os 2-7)
8-L=8/15=2=17 lost ...................................(Os 2-9)..................divisor goes up by 1.
Yes Correct again 2 lost bets in a row>>the Divisor goes up by 1.
If we're talking a 2-1 bet here, let's just focus on that and I'll ask about 1-1 later.
Ok so now You know this particular one is for the Even Chances.
If I summed up, you start with a divisor of 6 and a win target of 6 which gives a 1u bet. <<Correct
When you lose a unit, you add that loss to the win target. Or if you lose 2, 3 or whatever, you add that amount to the win target.
Yes Correct
When you lose twice, you raise your divisor by 1. <<Correct
When you win once, you drop your divisor by 1 and reduce your win target by the amount won. << Yes Mate
When you divide, you round up to the nearest unit. << Yes Again
Now, as to the safety brake. When does it apply? Is there a set formula, like when the bet gets too high for your comfort?
Yes You are right on both counts.
The set Formula for the Safety Brake is when the Divisor reaches 2.
Or when the bets gets too high for Comfort.
Eg: you might have something like this.
4/60=15 its too high for you to handle so we do this
2/6
...........
6/66=11 << still too High ? ok then this
2/0
8/66=9 << oh that's better you might say
.........
Or Maybe this
4/60=15
6/6
.......
10/66=7
The difference is that you would require 8 or 10 wins to Target instead of 6.
Common sense & each players tolerance for higher bets will come into play at some time Sam.
The end Result will be the same. You Win.
On any reasonable winning Selection Method.
You Must Win.
(There I have said it.Now watch them come out of the woodwork at Me Samster....They will have Straight Jackets & Butterfly Nets Mate........Lmao)
Well, it's four in the morning here in Oklahoma. Guess I'll toddle of to bed again.
Your time is appreciated!!
Sam
Its My Pleasure My Friend.
Good On Ya Mate
Lanky
Lanky
I just posted this under the "what is your calling thread"
This system is working for me for real man!! he said
He's speaking of the Lw system that Victor and Lanky were told wouldn't work--what??--nearly a year and a half ago. Sam wrote.
So Lanky's Grind and the Lw methodology will neither work!
Lanky, as my method of controlling/instructing/slightly punishing myself for loosing around $1,000 I have sworn not to bet real money until October 1st. When the day comes, I'm going to toss fifty-cent pieces at this system and test it for myself.
Later.......
Sam
OK, I do have one more question:
If I were using this on a single dozen, I would still add the loss to the win target, and you said to raise the divisor every four spins, but when and by how much do I drop it? Is it two after two a win?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 22, 2008, 11:36:49 AM
Lanky
I just posted this under the "what is your calling thread"
This system is working for me for real man!! he said
He's speaking of the Lw system that Victor and Lanky were told wouldn't work--what??--nearly a year and a half ago. Sam wrote.
So Lanky's Grind and the Lw methodology will neither work!
Lanky, as my method of controlling/instructing/slightly punishing myself for loosing around $1,000 I have sworn not to bet real money until October 1st. When the day comes, I'm going to toss fifty-cent pieces at this system and test it for myself.
Later.......
Sam
Yes Sam We know the Lw won't work thats for sure Mate.
109 sessions
4 Break even
2 losses
103 winning sessions.
Now I am worrying about the Divisor working long term as well.
After all its only been in the Family for 30 years.
Good On Ya Mate
Lanky
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 22, 2008, 11:49:19 AM
OK, I do have one more question:
If I were using this on a single dozen, I would still add the loss to the win target, and you said to raise the divisor every four spins, but when and by how much do I drop it? Is it two after two a win?
Sam
Sam
For the single Dozens it would be like this Mate.
L-6/6=1=7 lost
L-6/7=2=9 lost
L-6/9=2=11 lost
L-6/11=2=13 lost (4 lost bets in a row Divisor up 1 to 7)
W-7/13=2=15 Won -6=9 ( won so Divisor down 1 to 6)
L-6/9=2=11 lost
W-6/11=2=13 Won-6=7 (won so down 1 to 5)
L-5/7=2=9 lost
W-5/9=2=11 won-6=5 (won so down 1 to 4) Etc
W-4/5=2=7 won-6=1 (1 from 6 win target={5} profit)
Good On ya Mate
Lanky
Let's take your last example and use it
L-6/6=1=7 lost
L-6/7=2=9 lost
L-6/9=2=11 lost
L-6/11=2=13 lost (4 lost bets in a row Divisor up 1 to 7)
W-7/13=2=15 Won -6=9 ( won so Divisor down 1 to 6)
L-6/9=2=11 lost
W-6/11=2=13 Won-6=7 (won so down 1 to 5)
L-5/7=2=9 lost
W-5/9=2=11 won-6=5 (won so down 1 to 4) Etc
W-4/5=2=7 won-6=1 (1 from 6 win target={5} profit)......what if this line had been an L?
I guess my question is this: OK, you raise the divisor after four losses in a row. Then you hit a win. Now...do you only raise the divisor after four more losses in a row? Or do you raise the divisor every fourth loss whether or not they are in a row, that is, back-to-back.?
Sam
Maybe the answer lies in the fact the divisor goes down with each win, so you need not raise it until four in a row. Did I answer my question? LOL
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 22, 2008, 03:21:34 PM
Let's take your last example and use it
L-6/6=1=7 lost
L-6/7=2=9 lost
L-6/9=2=11 lost
L-6/11=2=13 lost (4 lost bets in a row Divisor up 1 to 7)
W-7/13=2=15 Won -6=9 ( won so Divisor down 1 to 6)
L-6/9=2=11 lost
W-6/11=2=13 Won-6=7 (won so down 1 to 5)
L-5/7=2=9 lost
W-5/9=2=11 won-6=5 (won so down 1 to 4) Etc
W-4/5=2=7 won-6=1 (1 from 6 win target={5} profit)......what if this line had been an L?
Then it would have looked like this Mate.
L-4/5=2=7 lost
I guess my question is this: OK, you raise the divisor after four losses in a row. Then you hit a win. Now...do you only raise the divisor after four more losses in a row? Or do you raise the divisor every fourth loss whether or not they are in a row, that is, back-to-back.?
Sam
Maybe the answer lies in the fact the divisor goes down with each win, so you need not raise it until four in a row. Did I answer my question? LOL
Yes Sam Yo have answered Your own question Mate.
On the single Dozen bet the divisor is raised after every 4 lost bets in a row.
God Bless You Mate
Lanky
OK, Lanky, here's a question I can't answer........
I'm going to bet at Riverbelle. I'm going to bet the two double streets Chicco picks, so my bet will be on a dozen, just divided by two.
If my minimum bet is $10 on a double street, what would my starting formula look like. Each bet would have to be $20 at least.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on August 23, 2008, 03:22:05 PM
OK, Lanky, here's a question I can't answer........
I'm going to bet at Riverbelle. I'm going to bet the two double streets Chicco picks, so my bet will be on a dozen, just divided by two.
If my minimum bet is $10 on a double street, what would my starting formula look like. Each bet would have to be $20 at least.
Sam
Hi Sam
Its the same Mate...the only difference is that your unit becomes $20
Like if you were betting on a Dozen & it won It would be
6/6=1=7 so in reality its $20 outlay & $60 return for a profit of $40 so it be like this
6/6=1=7 won-3=4 from win target of 6=2 <<2x 20=$40
Or if you prefer you can do it this way in Dollars.
6/120=20=140 won-60 return=80 from 120 win target ={$40} profit.
Even though the unit is split into 2 bets of $10 on the lines=(D/streets) the return will be the Same.
10-lost
10-won
..............
20 out-60 return=40 profit
Good On Ya Mate
Lanky
Hi Sam,
I have been quite impressed with the basis of your Lanky's divisor MM plan so thought I would give it a go tonight. I hadn't done any testing but called by the casino and felt like having a bet, so thought why not. After all the real test comes on the field of battle!
So cashed in $800 and decided to play $10 units on the even chances using DBL on R/B on a single zero wheel.
It went like this - won the first spin so reset, then had a sequence of LLLWLLLLLLLLL (mainly a series on "terrible twos" with a zero thrown in) so I was in a big hole but continued and had WLWWLLWLW (16L/7W to here) so kept going and got WWLLWWLLWWLWWW and recovered with a small profit (21L/16W) so I was impressed.
So I continued with another assault with LLWLWLLLWWWW for another win. So in I went again to have spun LLWLLLWLWLLWWWLWLW for another win.
All in all 37L/30W and won a couple of hundred. The only change I made was that if the sequence was getting a bit tedious, especially in the first set, I just reset when I got back to a new bankroll high.
I must admit that the divisor handled the 9 losses in a row pretty well, as the bets didn't climb anywhere as quickly as other MM plans I have used, and then after that I knew that eventually the terrible twos would break and decent runs of the colours would return and if not that then it would be the chops.
So thanks Sam, I will use it again as it really takes a horrible run to come unstuck but I'm sure that there will be worse runs.
Regards
Mocco
Moccoman
I had to strike the word "your" in the above post. This is absolutely, positively not my plan. It is Lanky's all the way. He deserves your thanks not me. I am sure you just confused us.
I'm happy to hear it worked for you as I have never tried it.
Sam
My apologies to Lanky. I guess I was so interested in the thread that I got the posts mixed up. :-[
So Lanky, I can play on rapid roulette that has a spread of $10 to $1,000 on the even chances, so any progression can go pretty deep into a hole but with sufficient bankroll there is a big chance that it can recover from almost anywhere.
Regards
Mocco
Not to worry; I've done the same thing!!
Hi Lanky,
I guess once again a solid MM plan has failed to get the response it deserves.
I really like this one, its easy to keep follow and keep records and can be adjusted along the way.
Just a quick question.
You said that you had 103 winning sessions, 4 break evens and 2 losses.
Can you tell me what constitutes a loss - is it 100 units, table limit or ....? And do you count a session as a completed series, that is winning the 6 units, 10 12 etc or a session of playing, which may include a number of completed series?
Regards
Mocco
Hi Champion
Mate this is really in the wrong place.
I just put it here as an example between it & Oscars Grind
You can read more on the Divisor over in the money management section.
here's the link
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/6-point-divisor-plan/ (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/6-point-divisor-plan/)
Over ther you can see how to use it as a 6 point Divisor and taking the Zero or the Zero pocket at the same time.
Mate those figures are for the Lw method that can be used on almost everything.
Victor starts off using it betting on the 5 Lines.
If that loses he goes to the Dozens & Columns to recoup & then back to the 5 Lines again.
Even though I have done this too,I mainly use it as a stand alone method on the Dozens & Columns.
Which you can read about over in the Statergy Section.
And seeing as though I am averageing over 60 units per sessions played I should really put the word days there as I can play more then one time on the same day to make a session.
I will be making more posts as I get better & as time permits over in those sections mate.
Good On Ya Mate.
Lanky
cheers Lanky for the indepth reply very very much appreciated. i am still struggling to understand it but i enjoy a challenege and i want to discover it on my own if possible. i like a good challenge.
once again thanks for all the effort.
dj
Quote from: djroulette on August 28, 2008, 02:31:39 PM
cheers Lanky for the indepth reply very very much appreciated. I am still struggling to understand it but I enjoy a challenege and I want to discover it on my own if possible. I like a good challenge.
once again thanks for all the effort.
dj
Hi djroulette.
Thanks Mate.
I have just done a post over at the Divisor thread.
Heres the link if your interested Cobber.
nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/6-point-divisor-plan/msg18889/#msg18889 (nolinks://vlsroulette.com/money-management/6-point-divisor-plan/msg18889/#msg18889)
Your Friend.
Lanky
Hi!
Oscar' grind is better to use in blackjack or pontoon as it is the best game you can find that casino has the the least edge, and you can win 1.5 times if you hit a BJ which is better than any even choices in roulette.
I know there is someone using it in baccarat and haven't lost yet in 3 years.
Cheers,
Leo
Has anyone given any thought to using the six point divisor for two dozens and using the method about flip-flopping between the last hit and the last missed?