Hi All,
This play is very simple and is giving me consistent profit since I started playing during the last few weeks.
The 37 numbers are divided into 10 groups as below:-
0 10 20 30
1 11 21 31
2 12 22 32
3 13 23 33
4 14 24 34
5 15 25 35
6 16 26 36
7 17 27
8 18 28
9 19 29
Begin by cancelling each group as one of the corresponding numbers is spun. i.e. If 3 is spun cancel 3 13 23 33 group etc.
When there is just one group remaining, bet the numbers as follows:-
If it is a 3 number group bet for up to 12 spins, I use the progression 111111222222
If it is a 4 number group bet for up to 9 spins, I use the progression 111122222
Following a win begin marking again from the next number. When the sequence loses wait until the group which lost hits before resuming play/marking. It is also a good idea at the session start to wait until all 10 groups have hit before starting real play.
All my testing and play to date is giving good profit overall. That's it!
Best regards
Thank you coolpaddy,
Any stats of your own on how often does the progression tank?
Hi Victor,
My tests and play gave me 75% win rate overall. The low was 55% in a session, the high was 100%
Played with a low chip value this method allows for reovery by use of pluscoup or similar. I've had win strings of up to 15. I don't believe that I've seen 3 consecutive losses and 2 is rare, so there is plenty scope for recovery usually.
Best regards
I tested it, too many losses. Once I had to wait 35 spins to get the group but the knowledge of the behavior of the groups could be used in other strategy. The groups do not streaks (I got max. 2 in row), they are very choppy. Put 2 last groups out and play the rest for the next spin or something like that.
Hermes
Hi CP!
Great to see you again! I have just completed a 363-spin test. I was playing flat-bet/pluscoup, and it works just fine. In fact, I didn't need to pluscoup really, and it would have still been in profit.
I have seen the LONG streaks of no play, but that's part of the drill I am sure. It's just like playing with the single numbers that sleep the most.
I also think that you could use it this way:
If you do flat bet and it goes more than 9 spins without the win, you obviously will have a lower than you previous bankroll high. That's when you could either (a) apply the pluscoup, or (b) divide your difference by 32 to get your unit value for the next play.
Here are my results from that group:
Playing a pluscoup:
Hi: +250 units
Lo: -6 units
End: +250 units
Hi Units per Spin: 3
Flat-play:
Hi: +200 units
Lo: -6 units
End: +190 units
"32-Divisor Plan (thanks to LANKY for the inspiration on this name!)":
Hi: +200 units
Lo: -6 units
End: +190 units
Just one more way to play finals.
Too bad VIP went dark. Tons of great discussions about playing finals.
To this day I still play a plan that was posted there and it works more often than not.
Good luck.
Hi Talesman,
Do you use finals with your system as well?
I think that playing so few numbers on a final is a good approach. The drawdown is low, and gives you ample of time to recover.
Hi all,
@Hermes, for sure this can and does lose. The waiting can also be very tedious. I agree that there are more possibilities with these sets. For example it's very rare to have 3 groups unhit by spin 24 - playing 3 unhit groups from spin 15 or 16 is well worth examining.
@CPS, thanks for the test data, your knack of selecting staking plans never ceases to impress me. You are indeed the Progression King!
Best regards
New data on 294 more spins:
Playing a pluscoup:
Hi: +225 units
Lo: -69 units
End: +225 units
Hi Units per Spin: 2
Flat-play:
Hi: +174 units
Lo: -69 units
End: +174 units
"32-Divisor Plan":
Hi: +174 units
Lo: -69 units
End: +174 units
Hi Units per spin: 1
CP - my pleasure! The fact that it has held profit over flat-betting shows me that this strategy has some merit. If I had played your progressions, I am sure that I would have had higher profits. Then again, any progression losses would take away some of those profits. However, that being said, I totally agree with your recovery thoughts. It certainly recovers well.
Quote from: cps10 on September 26, 2008, 01:00:12 PM
Hi Talesman,
Do you use finals with your system as well?
I think that playing so few numbers on a final is a good approach. The drawdown is low, and gives you ample of time to recover.
Generally I do it as a straight play plan. Sometimes, when my triggering events are sparse, I'll play something else to mark time.
After a trigger, I play the selected finals for up to 7 spins.
Lots of fun for little investment and I generally walk away a bit richer. Some dealers are incredible and I'll have several going at the same time and all will be winners.
An off-beat variation of that (handy when you need a 'filler' bet) is to look at past spins and when you see 5-6 spins with no #1 or #2 or #3 in them cover all the numbers that contain the missing/absent number. Use a gentle progression when needed.
That can make some money or scare you at times.
If anyone is serious about a progression for use on finals (4 numbers) check out the
Money Management section under
Various Progressions and you will find one that was originally posted by Rev a long time ago that works well.
Found it....here it is. It can be altered to reduce the amounts a bit. Doing that will also lower the return as well.
Pick any 4 numbers start this progression
(use for House or Finals?)(Rev)
1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12
14 16 18 20 23 27 30 35 40 46 52 59 68 78
89 101 116 132 151 (4804 units)
The only "problem" with playing finals (and I only play finals that have 4 numbers) is that most casinos have a $5 minimum. There is one casino where I play that the table is $4. Rapid Roulette is good to try it on as those installations generally only require a $2.50 minimum bet.
Keep winning.
Talesman,
I developed a system whereby I use 4 numbers only. It works great. What I would do typically with Rapid Roulette is cover the zero split, since that is a non-factor in the selection of the 4 numbers that I use. That gets you to $0.50 x 5 = $2.50 to get the minimum down.
I have found that using a 4-number set has produced great returns for me. Everytime I test something different, I always go back to the 4-number system.
So I see you have 39 spins for that 4-number progression. Have you ever seen a group of 4 numbers go stale for that long? I imagine it can and will happen.
More results:
343 spins:
Pluscoup:
Hi: +278 units
Lo: -418 units
End: +239 units
Highest units per number: 8
Flat Bet:
Hi: +57 units
Lo: -109 units
End: -51 units
"32-Divisor":
Hi: +102 units
Lo: -319 units
End: +63 units
Highest units per number: 7
So far so good. Flat betting still holding up to the tune of +300 units.
Quote from: cps10 on September 26, 2008, 03:45:37 PM
So I see you have 39 spins for that 4-number progression. Have you ever seen a group of 4 numbers go stale for that long? I imagine it can and will happen.
No, I have not seen that. It is possible, I suppose. Anything is possible when it comes to table games, especially roulette, so that chance cannot be ruled out. That's why they call it gambling. <g>
I have tested Rev's progression on my collection of 00 actuals and I do not recall it ever losing. But I doubt I'd want to invest $4800 at a roulette table to see if it could....if you catch my drift.
I guess it depends on how much you win before it does finally bottom out. So far this group play has been good.
I tried the plan on what I consider a 'tough-to-win" actual 00 file.
The first win was a piece of cake. Made 42 units betting 2 units each on the 9 (table mins. and all that). But very last two numbers were 8 & 9 before the 8 was eliminated. When you play or in testing have you ever tried betting the final two numbers left if they were like the ones above, the 3-number group? If so, were the results good or worse?
I haven't tried that yet, but in the last group of spins I reported above, I re-ran them with Rev's progression, and won nearly 1,200 units in that same amount of spins, with 28 spins out being the highest drawdown I've seen.
1200 is a lot. Good going! Was it scary?
For me, in real life, getting ahead at roulette by a 100 or more when playing my normal game usually has me coloring up and heading elsewhere. Unless I do that in the first 1/2 hour. Then I'll stay but will not lose more than 1/2 of my gains. Generally I like to play live rouette for about 1 hour at a time.
There is a lot to be said about 'hit & run' - mostly good stuff. <g>
It was just a test...so it wasn't as scary as it would have been on the table. The lowpoint that I had during that one 28-spin losing streak was 900 units. So, it's a big swing, but the ROI at that point is over 120%. I will continue testing like I have been in previous posts, but will also incorporate this Rev progression to see if I can get past 4800 units just to see if it can hold up. Something tells me that if flat betting is still above water, the Rev progression could win a lot of money on Finals in a short amount of time.
All......
I have a method of playing this system whereby you create a "rolling" method of play. It is based on my "New Eyes On The Marquee" idea. Basically you track a total of ten charts at one time. Very, very easy to do! Let's say you are betting on the 0 10 20 30 and it wins. Now you just move to the next chart where those four numbers were there with another four and cross them off. Now you have four new ones.
I have cleared it with Pat to post this and link the Excel sheet. I will explain how it's done, but you can probably figure it out from just looking.
It does NOT change the system; it just tracks multiple bets. Anyone interested?
Sam
Very interested Sam...thanks for looking out for us! :)
Sounds good, Sam. I'd be very interested in playing this system that way.
OK
The chart is attached.
This is very simple to use. We will read left to right just as you're doing now. I will call the groups of numbers "Pages". We begin with the top/left page.
I started with the Microgaming wheel where you can see 12 numbers on the marquee. Depending on your preference there are two ways to start.
1. Start with the number at the bottom of the marquee. That is the oldest number. It goes to Page 1, top/left corner. Mark through the four numbers. The next number also goes to Page 1, but also to the page just to the right. It now becomes Page1. Each newest number goes to the blank page immediately to the right of the one you just marked. As soon as you mark through a line of numbers, that page is page 1. Page 1 has one line marked out. The next page is the new page. Say your bottom four numbers were 0 1 2 3. Here's how it would go
0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 Look at the zero. If you never hit
1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 another zero group, that line will
2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 stay and eventually become the
3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 line you bet on. Think about it!
4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34
zero one two three
If there were no repeaters, that's the way it would go. But there are repeaters. let's let two repeat. We start at left/top and mark the two line and all others until we hit blank page and we mark it too. It is now page 1.
0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30
1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31
2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32
3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33
4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34
0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30 0 10 20 30
1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31 1 11 21 31
2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32 2 12 22 32
3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33 3 13 23 33
4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34 4 14 24 34
5 15 25 35 5 15 25 35 5 15 25 35 5 15 25 35
This is now page 1
Here's the simple way to remember it. Only on the first number used---------mark upper/left and stop. The second number comes, mark upper/left and the first clean page to it's right. Then upper/left,next and first clean page to right. The u/l box will be filling up. Each one to it's right will have one more mark and the one to his right, one more mark and so on until you get to a clean page and you make your last mark and its page 1. After a while if you get lots of the same numbers the pages will become duplicates. Mark a large X over it to show it's dead. Do that with all but the last duplicate as it is alive.
What you get for doing is........as soon as you win your bet, look to the page to the right and theres your next bet. No waiting or recounting; you've been doing it all along. Try it a few times and you'll like it.
Sam
I really liked Tony Dean's method as posted over at VIP.
I'll try to relate it as best I can.
Tony said to wait until a final appeared on an accurate marquee (correct spelling, BTW, as a "marquee" is a sign whereas a "marquis" is a title of nobility) within 2 or less of each other then bet that final for up to 7 spins. Now he never defined exactly what "2" was so we had to surmise.
Ex: 0 15 2 18 31 22. There I'd bet the final of "2" as the 2 and 22 are separated by two numbers.
Usually a d'Alembert works as a progression and helps keep the BR in check. I generally quit any progression once I am in higher profit.
Tony also only bet on one qualified number at a time. I bet all the qualified numbers as they appear. You never know which will win. That sometimes requires pencil and paper tracking so be prepared.
His method works exceedingly well on my collection of 00 actuals and has yet to fail me in live play. Albeit some days I have to spend more time at a table than I care to in order to come out ahead (of previous profits).
The original post in this thread isn't all that shabby either. Both deserve a try.
Get rich and famous.
aah.. Tony Dean... i have bought his system before last time way back in VIP. hehe..
sort of works on European Wheel. lost the file since :-)
cheers to all, happy winning!
BobbyBobby
Talesman
.... marquee (correct spelling, BTW, as a "marquee" is a sign whereas a "marquis" is a title of nobility)
Thanks for that! Now if I can just keep "lose" and "loose" straight!
Sam
Hi all,
@Mr Chips, thank you for the alternative sets, I agree that finals have mixed rates of success. There are some other ingredients which can be added to the formula which may or may not improve the consistency and profitability. This post is very much a work in progress and not a finished and final system - Hopefully the end product will be a stronger, consistent winning strategy.
@Talesman, thank you for benefit of your wisdom and sharing your experience of finals play.
Best regards
Hi Sam,
I like the spreadsheet idea, I will be giving it a good test run asap. Please email me the template.
Best regards
OK and thanks!
You could play Group play the other way and play the group with the most hits after 10-15 spins.
!
Quote from: cps10 on September 27, 2008, 10:04:38 PM
I will continue testing like I have been in previous posts, but will also incorporate this Rev progression to see if I can get past 4800 units just to see if it can hold up. Something tells me that if flat betting is still above water, the Rev progression could win a lot of money on Finals in a short amount of time.
Keep us informed of the progression outcome.
I like the part about "win a lot of money on Finals in a short amount of time" and probably the key would be to not get greedy so you can keep it. Call me a worry wart if you care to but I believe that if providence is smiling at me I take a bit and move on. Greed eventually gets punished by those same gambling gods that bestowed the original good fortune.
Quote from: bobbybobby on September 28, 2008, 09:07:58 AM
aah.. Tony Dean... I have bought his system before last time way back in VIP. hehe..
sort of works on European Wheel. lost the file since :-)
cheers to all, happy winning!
BobbyBobby
I was really miffed when the forum sort of made Tony a pariah when he announced he was going to sell a system. He was a great contributor and had lots of good ideas. Can't blame him for quitting.
W/o revealing the exact plan, what was it he sold? I have always been curious about that.
Quote from: Talesman on September 28, 2008, 04:38:28 AM
I really liked Tony Dean's method as posted over at VIP.
I'll try to relate it as best I can.
Tony said to wait until a final appeared on an accurate marquee (correct spelling, BTW, as a "marquee" is a sign whereas a "marquis" is a title of nobility) within 2 or less of each other then bet that final for up to 7 spins. Now he never defined exactly what "2" was so we had to surmise.
Ex: 0 15 2 18 31 22. There I'd bet the final of "2" as the 2 and 22 are separated by two numbers.
Usually a d'Alembert works as a progression and helps keep the BR in check. I generally quit any progression once I am in higher profit.
Tony also only bet on one qualified number at a time. I bet all the qualified numbers as they appear. You never know which will win. That sometimes requires pencil and paper tracking so be prepared.
His method works exceedingly well on my collection of 00 actuals and has yet to fail me in live play. Albeit some days I have to spend more time at a table than I care to in order to come out ahead (of previous profits).
The original post in this thread isn't all that shabby either. Both deserve a try.
Get rich and famous.
Thanks for this post Talesman...I have tested a variation of this last nite and in haven't lost in 1952 real live wheel spins, for a total profit of +810 units....the most drawdown I had at any time was 180 units...here's the variation
First wait for a qualifying opportunity before betting to make sure that the table is hitting...i.e. 0 15 2 18 31 22, now we wait for "2" final to hit before we actually start betting at this table, 9, 27, 28, 12 <--- hit, so we can began betting the next time a signal comes. The progression I have been using is that I bet 1 unit on all finals for 9 spins, if win within 9 spins, great, if not, I raise to 2 units for 9 spins, then 3 units for 9 spins, havent gone past 3 stages yet.
What I found to be important though, is as soon as the dealer changes, stop betting but remember the stage you were at in the progression, wait to see that this new dealer will qualify before betting, as explained above, then after a hit, wait for next signal, and continue where you left off in progression from previous dealer.
here's an example from live wheel:
5
0
0 signal, check to see that table will qualify
26
0 HIT, now at next signal can begin betting
7
17 <--- bet on "7" final 9 spins x 1 unit
31
36
6
0
17 HIT +21
33
17
3 <-- signal to bet "3" finals
13 HIT +53
11
5
32
33
8
32 <-- signal to bet "2" finals
1
20
2 HIT +77
21
30
4
8
3
3 <-- signal to bet "3" finals
4
2
9
9
34
6
29
15
11 -- 9 spins without win on "3" finals, and now new dealer begins so must wait for qualifying table before resuming progression
NEW DEALER
14
28
25
28 <-- signal, check to see that table will qualify
34
25
20
20
20
22
15
31
18 HIT, now at next signal can resume progression
11
17
13
34
18
23 <-- signal to bet "3" finals 9 spins x 2 units
24
22
20
8
12
6
16
24
17 <--- bet "3" finals, now 9 spins x 3 units
5
31
34
24
19
14
23 HIT, -7 units
15
13
5 signal to bet "5" finals 9 spins x 1 units
10
23
19
18
15 HIT +9
and so on, on this particular table, I was able to finish +68 units over 274 spins, this is in testing, but many times I was +150 units, and if playing for real money, I would definately exited then, but I wanted to see how it would go over the entire 274 spins that I tested...
Hi Toby,
It's good to hear from you again. The win rate of the final group has been good enough so far to allow for recovery when it is needed. Whether these groups are any better than other finals play is the question. I have tried streets, lines and various other mixes of wheel and table based sets but so far I have had much more reason for optimism with these particular groups. I am looking also at one other variation which at this very early stage of testing looks stronger.
@Proofreader2000, playing the dominant group was the first thing I looked at. It does have some very strong runs, but I believe that the finals play is a better bet. Any test data you have for playing the dominant group versus the final group would be much appreciated. As I stated in an earlier reply this is very much a work in progress. Thank you for your input.
Hopefully between all of us working together there will be an improved winning strategy which will stand the test of time
Best regards
WhiteKnight be careful of what you post.
So far it is Spike, you and I who belong to that exclusive "dealer change" club. The [alleged] 'pros' here unequivocally state that dealer change has no bearing whatsoever.
So ...shush!!! Don't upset the applecart. You don't want to be burned at the stake for being a heretic, do you? LOL!!!
Happy to hear you did well on your variation.
When all else is failing I always seem to migrate back to playing finals.
I may bump my play up to 9 spins vs. 7 and see how that works out.
Time will tell.
Hi Comrades
I have always been fascinated by these groups of numbers which were brought to my attention by Tony Deans system referred to elsewhere in this thread.
The great debate has always been whether one should adopt a course which reflects the numbers trending in the hope that the trend will continue or to adopt a course of pursuing numbers which are yet to appear in the hope that their turn is now due. Both strategies no doubt have their merit, with me personally leaning in this difficult choice to those numbers which are trending - I have been badly burnt by pursuing numbers which just remain cold for too long for my liking.
With this in mind I have tested the following variation - In a series of 10 spins mark which group of numbers have hit more than twice. Then follow those groups by backing them for another 10 spins or until the desired profit is achieved. After 10 spins recalculate and start again. Only bet when there are at least two groups which have hit twice or more and if necessary go back more than - spins till a qualifier is found.
Check it our preliminary testing is quite amazing.
Cheers to all
wait to see that this new dealer will qualify before betting>>>
Thats a good way of putting it. Only experienced players realize that a new dealer might or might not spin what you're playing. The kitchen table players just assume every spin from every dealer is exactly the same and you should ignore dealer changes. Its their money to lose, let them lose it.
Spike, at least there is someone with their eyes wide open who fully understands how the table works. I really do like the way he thinks. My kind of player!
It's sad, in a way, that those of us who do that are in the minority. Perhaps that's why we usually do well where others may fail.
It doesn't cost a thing to sit back and let the new dealer spin off a couple and observe what the results are.
Quote from: Talesman on September 30, 2008, 05:41:09 PM
Spike, at least there is someone with their eyes wide open who fully understands how the table works. I really do like the way he thinks. My kind of player!
It's sad, in a way, that those of us who do that are in the minority. Perhaps that's why we usually do well where others may fail.
It doesn't cost a thing to sit back and let the new dealer spin off a couple and observe what the results are.
Very True.
Hi Matty.
Mate the thing I notice most about a Dealer change is what Kimo Li taught 3 Forums ago, that is if there there is a section/numbers that have not hit under the past Dealer it/they can hit with the New Dealer.
This does happen a lot.
Cheers Mate
Lanky.
Talesman
Let me quote you and ask a question:
"It doesn't cost a thing to sit back and let the new dealer spin off a couple and observe what the results are."
Are you making the statement that you can tell in a "couple" of spins what the dealer is going to do? If you are not saying that, would you please tell the audience exactly what you are saying?
Sam
Hate dealer changes when I'm winning :P
Hi,
Can anyone care to explain how do we get the "clock sets" mentioned by Mr. Chips?
Thanks,
Rjl
OHM...OHM...OHM... and so on...
To the "dealer change" debate just a little notice that the wheel deflectors are the most effective ball controllers, not the dealer. Different number formations come not because of dealer change but because of the Laws of distribution.
Sam, there is old saying that "new broom swept better". Could it apply to dealer change?
Hermes