Hi guys
Welcome to this new section dedicated solely to tennis betting. Just to give you some background info on myself i was playing full time tennis until last year when i had to stop due to a continuous injury that keep holding me back. I have played at national level with my highest junior ranking being number 12 in the country. I have played a lot of roulette but as with most people am always just a little bit down. I decided to try gambling on something i knew a lot about and this is how i ended up here. Within this section i hope to give a tipping service for events but also great ways to make money trading tennis and how to use the in play betting markets to your advantage.
Anybody else that has knowledge in this sport i would be very happy to help me out here as it is one of the few sports where there is a real good chance to make money consistently.
many thanks
dj
Good luck with your new section. :thumbsup:
Yes,good luck DJR
Hey DJ,
good luck with the betting. I am more than willing to help out. I was just thinking of revamping my tennis system. 2 heads are better than 1 (or so they say!).
Cheers,
Matt
good stuff matty. just give me a pm with your system and i will help out with it if i can. this time of the year is very tough to predict however you can get some good high odds wins
dj
Nadal on clay very hard to go against
yeah that ones a no brainer. ha ha 30 in a row now wins on clay.
dj
Hey there wonderful thread.. finally we got tennis...
Well, I teach tennis... and I am very knowledgeable about tennis inside out...
and yes i have dont lots of tennis betting.. but well.. nothing is easy....Yes it is no brainer that Nadal on Clay... you will win 99% but heck you bet $100 and you get probably less than $5... odds are just not so good for tennis...
And those who are trying to bet on match mainly outside top 50 ranked plaers are playing is one to avoid... it is just so unpredictable...
It is always safe to bet on top seed players early round.. but not after 3 or 4 th round...
but great to have this threaqd
at least you get a pure 50/50 with tennis :)
Hi DJ! I want to congratulate you for this wonderful thread!
One thing that I did observe is that you need to find better odds for your matches. I just saw that at my bookie (bet365), most of the odds were way bigger than those that you bet on (e.g: you bet on Potito Starace at the odds of 1.8, and I just found it at odds 2.2).
I am just wondering how could we find the best odds for the events you select. We all know that the odds decrease when people bet on that particular player. Usually people bet on the favourites, that brings me to this conclusion (not necessarily true): if we want to bet on the player that has bigger odds, we will wait till there are a couple of hours (maybe minutes) till the game begins; when we bet on the favourite, we bet on him the moment that the event is opened. This way I think that we can maximize our odds.
What do you think?
sebix
Hi Sebix thanks for the observation. I know there are some of my odds that are not great however i only really use betfair as i like to get big odds on outside favourites which is somehwere that i get a lot of my best resuls from. Also as well i would love to do some shopping around for odds but it is inding the time. As i am still in school my days are pretty crammed. However i finish in 3 weeks so will be hoping to get a bit more serious with this. Good to see we have some interest in this section. i would love to make tis section very active.
many thanks
dj
Great work on this section DJroulette :thumbsup:
I will try to follow it, and maybe start playing some aswell.
But have a lot to learn first i guess.
Or maybe i could simply try the bets you say?
How much do you wager on a mach on average?
What does in play wager means?
BR
Kingpin
Thanks for the kind comment Kingspin. Well if you ever wanna learn anything about tennis im always around to help out.
With a 1000 unit bankroll i work on a points system from 1-5. 1 for a bet i am not totally confident on and 5 for one im very confident about. once the bankroll gets to £2000 i then increase the unit size to 2 units.
In play betting is when you bet on an event during play. For instance Ivo Karlovic may be playing Andy Roddick. Roddick is serving and is 30-40 down. In my opinion Roddick will still hold this game however on betfair it is more than likely his odds to win that game will go dramatically high so i would place a bet say at 2.1 that he will hold. If he looses the next point i loose whatever i wager however if he wins the next point i have two options. When his odds come back my first option is to lay him at these lower odds and lock in some guaranteed profit or i can let the bet ride and pick up more profit at the risk of him still losing the game. In this particular scenario i would leave the bet down due to Roddick high hold% and Karlovic low break %.
many thanks
dj
OK mate, thanks for you reply :)
hey there so you are trying to be tennis coach?
and you have one more year of school? and learning how to be coach?
well, for tennis betting... do you think it takes while to make profit?
that's something i knotice... since odds are not so even.. usually..
i used to bet "Sure" thing.. but still it took while to build up the bank and soon or later i get one big upset and blow my bankroll....
but you are doing well.. i would love to follow your bet
Well i am in my at year at college here which is equivalent to last year high school america. Im already coaching 40+ hours a week but am gaining my Performance coaching award at the moment.
I think there is money to be made definitely however not life changing sums just a regular secondary income. I would expect to be in profit at the end of every tournament.
maybe you should give it a go Joker
dj
Sounds great... You go school and you also teach 40 plus hours?
oh that's awesome... so you gonna just go into teaching tennis as a career?
well... if that is passion that would be great.... it is fun field.. but it is bit tiring for me...
if I had a chance to do over the life again.. i would teach tennis as a side, so i can pick who I want to teach... if I teach for living i have to take every single one of them.. and most of them aren't so enthusiactic.. unfortunately....
yes i give a go...how much do you bet for each match?
you have great input for matches.... i trust your bets...
yeah school 8-2 then coach 3-10 every night and sat**day 730am-6pm with no break and sunday 9-4 no break. I also do extra stuff when i can. i just love it so much.
yeah i know what you mean about enthusiasm however that is part of the job, bringing tennis to those less enthusiastic.
my bets are ok and i base them on solid grounds however today some shock losses. These things happen in sports.
oh wow that's good.. you work for club? how is teaching in England?
can you teach at public court? do they have in door courts?
yeah big loses comes... and book makers are very smart.. they make the odds favors house....
so you also play roulette?
well, i would say bet huge money on Nadal first round on French open maybe okay.. but you won't get a lot.. unless you bet a lot.. but you get $5000 then get $100 isn't too good..yeah as we know any game in casino favors house...
but we will keep on trying....oh by the way.. how did you get your own tennis thread? how did you get to know mr. Victor?
well.. great to have you here
Yeah i am working for one of the biggest academys in the uk. Help out with quite a few highly European ranked junior players. We have 11 indoor hard,5 outdoor hard and 8 outdoor red clay and 2 weights and cardio rooms plus physio on site and a school. so pretty big.
thats why i tend to use betting markets as opposed to actual bookmakers as the odds are a little more truthful.
i play a bit of roulette nowhere near as much as i used to. Its more for fun these days.
In my results thread that is just me betting every match and trying to se how well i do. In reality i would not have bet some of these. On the actual bets i would have made i am 26 from 34 so a 77% hit rate where as i am 27 from 42 so only a 64% hit rate. This is not that bad considering i am betting ever match however i am very happy with my real bet hit rate so far.
I was just chatting to Vic the other day in chat and i was telling him all about my tennis betting and trading and he thought would be good idea to bring to forum. I just hope to get more people involved. Hopefully if i can turn profit at every tournament it should turn a few heads.
dj
Wow that's great... Yeah same here... I used to gamble more but not anymore...
it is just so hard to win and kind of distruct personal life.. just thinking about it too much...
I have few question about teaching in tennis in England... in England do you guys teach kids to hit flat or from the start teach top spin and as far as stroke do you teach them put racket up or loop from the begging ? thanks...we keep in touch oh by the way.. you must have lots of energy .. you work that much and go school and also you organize this thread also... but it is great for me...
well it depends on where you go. Different places teach things slightly differently. At our place we like the u6 players to work on contact points in front with making the swing really long through the hitting zone. As long as the swing is nothing to funky we tend to leave it as it is. Once we get to under u8 it becomes more about staying balanced through the hit and speeding up the racket head a little more. Once it gets to under 10 that is when we really look for players to start ripping the ball a little more and speed with the racket head. Also look for them to go through the phases from finishing tip-toe stance at the back to more of a semi open weight transfer.
yeah i got a hell of a lot energy but my gf gets on back sometimes as i work so much she doesn't get to see me loads right now. What can i say i love what i do
dj
thanks for input... well, since you are working top academy you should get decent students.. i don't think not too many crazy ones...
that what i was going to mention.. man you won't get any personal life with this job.. especially you love this job.. you can work from morning to midnight...
and of cource no weekends off.. since weekends get more busier...
yes tennis instractor make pretty well.. but I still beleive there are other jobs make easier money... they get paid vacation, benefit, not to mention sat**day and sunday and hollyday off... i really don't know when was the last time i didn't work... especailly you have indoor court you never get day off.. at here at least when rain.. but rare but i get some break....
anyhow.. so gambling might help us to get some extra income.. i really hope...
but it hasn't been the case..... unfortunately... hope we can do it though...
so you have been to Wimbledon?
yeah i know man thats the only downside but on the up side when you get a kid who you been working with or helping out does well it gives you satisfaction. In some ways you gotta stop thinking of it as gambling but more like an investment. You have to be in it for the long run ad not easy money.
iv been wimbledon loads times and played there to in u14 tournament. The courts there are nice but arongi park practice courts are much nicer.
you been to wimby before?
dj
lol wow.. been to wimbledon .. of cource not...
so why stopped playing tennis? perhaps you could play for college and get scholarship...
yeah i know i want to think as a investment...... but as you know it is a lot of work....
well, you must have lots of energy.. i finish teaching and i am just so tired and can't think anything... but i look forward to come this thread though....
i mean.. i look roulette forum and strategy but usually people's system breaks down soon or later... kind of sad but it is reality.....
and I am in CA and i can't play Online roulette and closest roulette is 1 hr from here and there is no way i can go... so actually betting Sport is way to go.. since I can do through online....
I like sports betting a lot since there is no cheating..
well, keep in touch
oh i just looked your result.. well, great that you are still up...
but you have any idea or anybody make big money with tennis bet?
should we bet higher amount for each match? or should we bet only ones for sure win... any input?
The only reason i a betting small amounts is because i am betting every match at both tournaments so my outlay is pretty big. I mean that is just based on my personal bankroll and stuff. If you wanted to you could have $10 as 1 unit. I mean for me earning and extra £20 a week would be great right now until i have doubled my bank. Im here for the long haul not a quick fix.
im glad you enjoy this section joker. its a shame we have not got many others in here yet. But im hopeful mattymattz will get involved here to.
I gave up due to regular injuries. Couldn't keep playing any more and being disappointed every few months.
dj
Big server Karlovic went down uh?
that's tough... guess on clay big serve won't be too effective...
well, you are still making profit that good...
i will keep eyes on it...
thanks
Normally though the clay is not a big deal for karlovic as it makes his serve come up very high for his opponents.
i ended up with a very small loss this week but i think a lot of that was due to player injuries rather than bet selections. hopefully i will have a better time of it in Madrid.
dj
hey everybody sorry not posted internet in my area has been down all week. I have exams next week or so but i hope to be back and running soon.
many thanks
dj
hey there that's good to hear....
i was thinking about betting $500 on safest bet in the world.. like French open
bet Nadal 1st and 2nd round...
i probably will get $10 or $20 for betting $500 but heck i will get it for sure...
and i will bet one at time... not placing different betting..
Federer, Nadal, Verdasko, Murry, are some example i would put $500....
it is very very hard to believe Nadal would lose before Quarterfinal... can't find anything higher chance to win than this..... any input?
Is it really worth risking $500 to win $10 or $20? $10 and $20 is nothing, where $500 is something.
It is not worth risking that much as even though he is the very far in front favorite Djokovis is playing great at the moment and Verdasco can be dangerous as well.
Dont know why you would out Murray down as his clay court skills are nothing special. I will post predictions for next week later on.
dj
well, I understand what you mean.. yes i think it is crazy to bet $500 to get just $20, or less, but this is more like sure money... which game or occasion we can find we can almost win 100%..? Actually bet like this i have made 4 times of my original bankroll.. the reason i want to do with high amount is that if I make 4 times of my original bankroll which is $500.. it is going to be $2000.. even I lose one bet i still make $1500... in tennis.. i am sure moderator here know top players come out with top shape.. that's why we dont' see big upset.. especially on clay... it is so hard to beleive Nadal lose in first round.. i mean that is almost 0%..I think nadal losing first round of French open is lower than me losing job tomorrow... I think gambling has to be percentage... even you wait Black or Red come 10 time in row there is no gurantee next one change to other color.. yes chance is high but not really... but Ndal or Federer losing first round? ... i don't think so... I think i will invest $500 or at least $300 .. and I will bet only ones I think I know for sure they will win... and I only bet one at time.. i don't want to place so many bet at same time.. I am sure moderator will do well on frrench open.. and i am sure i will keep eyes on it..
Well, believe me you can lose $500 at casino like nothing... $20 $30, $40 here and there.. and at the end of month.. you lose more than $1000, i rather go for high percentage win and increase my bankroll slowly.. and i am sure moderator agree with me that Nadal will never lose 1 or 2 round...
Hi joker your right i don't believe he will loose first round and i am almost 100% he will make last 16. however last few weeks although playing well he has looked human at times. I think people now are starting to realize that he is like other players and can have off days. If you notice pattern in a lot of Nadal matches people either try to slap him off the court or have no belief. He can have off days just like other people and i beleive more players will think like this now.
I think french open is great chance to get some wins for lower ranked players
dj
See people hear that? he said 100%... in a way it is sure money.. we never see than in other sport.. am i right?
well... and as you said is right.. Nadal can be beaten after round 16... i would say anything is possible ... but him losing on first round is unreal.. i think grass could happen... but still hard to believe....
Federer looks great also... i think when i gamble i go with sure money... any other games... nothing is predictable as tennis....
if Nadal is fit he is 100% winning his first 3 round. problem is i have been hearing a few rumors about his knees again. i prefer to go with higher odds outsiders who i know of.
I think this is something that not a lot of people are able to do as it is something only someone who has played a lot of tennis or coached to a very high level can see.
dj
Just an update for any of the followers of this thread. i am very sorry i have been inactive of late. I am taking away some payers for tournaments this week and next week so sadly for me I am going to struggle to get much action on the French Open. I will try and give picks whilst i am on the road.
dj
hey there great to hear from you...
well, strange enough not many people pay attention to tennis...
too bat it is very profitable...
i will look forward to hear your prediction...
goodluck with tournament
Quote from: djroulette link=topic=8542. msg51738#msg51738 date=1241391032
yeah that ones a no brainer. ha ha 30 in a row now wins on clay.
dj
hehehe federer beat him. but from what i saw of nadal against djokovich. . it seemed to me he wasn't playing that well. (relativity, i'm not saying he's a bad player) federer's back hand seemed pretty good too.
well, Federer has beat nadal on clay before also...
but french open is different... red clay is slower and 3 out of 5 sets and also mentality of grand slam is different...
I would go for Davydenko.. to get better profit...
I won $35 all up from wimbledon :)
lots of safe bets on federer :)
My theory was - based on form - if I had any doubts on who was going to dominate the tennis match then I wouldn't bet...
Even in the final - federer was getting odds of $1.12... but Roddicks form prevented me from betting... and what a game it was... either man having enough chances but Federer claiming it in a 16-14 last set!
right guys just a quick update. im very sorry have not posted anything for a very long time i have been having some hard times personally but am now in the process of getting myself back on the right track. I will be editing this section around december time to start a fresh come january as i will be following this as my full time job now.
many thanks for understanding
dj
Good to see you are getting on the right track mate. :thumbsup:
"as I will be following this as my full time job now."
Transition to Pro "tennis bettor"? :)
yes victor it will now be my main source of income alongside other things to help aid with the income during any bad times. This is not a big risk for me as i can always get regular work other places. I figured i have a great opportunity in front of me. why not take it. I am in the process of paper testing for a long time now and it has held up since 2000. which is as far back as i have tested. it is not a far fetched win every time system just something i have based on lesser known statistics in the last few years.
i hope you are well mr victor.
cheers
dj
Hey djroulette, I am very happy you are back! This is actually my first post and i'm a little bit nervous. I joined this forum because i love and want to know more about roulette. I realized there was a tennis section and was very excited because I love tennis, been playing since 4 yrs old, and started betting on the sport about 9 mnths ago. Have mostly broke even. I think there's much I need to learn. Until I read your new posts, I thought you might not be returning. I don't know if you will see my post any time soon, but I am looking forward to you getting the tennis section going again, and hope to participate regularly.
Glad things are getting better for you and Good Luck!!!
Caroline
Great to see tennis fan is back here...
and great to see new member here as well....
well, any sports bet is also tough becasue casino makes the odds favors casion.... of cource....
well, i also like sports betting and other games as well, but I am taking break now....well, maybe permanent???
well, when I bet sports I just can't get mind off the game.. i have to be watching or thinking all the time... yes it does make more fun to watch no doubt about it... but it is tough to make profit.... one of my friend told me that football is the way to go.....
well, but here is the system I am thinking using it...... well.... best system in the world is knowing the result.... nothing can beat that... and tennis is somewhat predictable...
I would bet the match say.... -200... so you bet $200 to win $100.... say Sam Querry playing against say top 20 player....well, after some research we can find good match up.... obvously sam was having good summer he probably won't lose to top 20 player.... i would bet on it... if I lose then I will find another
-200 match and I triple up.... I would only use two progressive.... that's it.. just like betting on Dozen or Column... if you lose you need to triple up to get the profit....
well... I would start small though maybe $10 or $20... if your method is right you can win in long run as well... one thing I like about tennis is that I am very familar and somewhat very predicatable.....
hope we can continue this more
HERE IS MY FIRST TIP I WILL MAKE IN A LONG TIME
LAY EDOUUARD ROGER VASSELIN TO WIN JAPAN OPEN @1000 (BETFAIR) £500
THERE YA GO
Hi Joker,
I just read your post last night. There's not much going on here in the tennis section. I don't always pay attention to see if any new posts. I'm happy you responded.
It's late right now. Unfortunately, time is not on my side these days. I just wanted to let you know I would like to continue with this, and tomorrow I will post more. By the way, I've been betting on both china and japan and doing pretty well. I'm getting motivated again!
Caroline :)
cool great that you are motivated
and great to hear that you are winning.... Tsonga looks really good...
Hi guys just to show you all my picks from last week and a few i am putting on this week as well.
Starting bankroll £10,000
Julien Benneteau vs Marin Cilic £100 Win Marin Cilic (To Win Match) 1.25 profit £25
Radek Stepanek vs Ernest Gulbis £200 Win Radek Stepanek (To Win Match) 1.44 loss £200
Fernando Verdasco vs Juan Carlos Ferrero £100 Win Fernando Verdasco (To Win Match) 1.45 profit £45
Day end bankroll £9,870 loss £130
Andreas Beck vs Tomas Berdych £150 Win Tomas Berdych (To Win Match) 1.36 profit £54
Richard Gasquet vs Jo Wilfried Tsonga £200 Win Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (To Win Match) 1.53 profit £106
Gilles Simon vs Mikhail Youzhny £100 Win Gilles Simon (To Win Match) 1.66 loss £100
Robin Soderling vs Tommy Robredo £100 Win Robin Soderling (To Win Match) 1.29 profit £29
day end bankroll £9,959 loss £41
Nikolay Davydenko vs Marin Cilic £50 Win Marin Cilic (To Win Match) 3.03 profit £101
Fernando Verdasco vs Novak Djokovic £100 Win Novak Djokovic (To Win Match) 1.4 profit £40
Mikhail Youzhny vs Tomas Berdych £100 Win Tomas Berdych (To Win Match) 1.73 loss £100
Ernest Gulbis vs Jo Wilfried Tsonga £300 Win Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (To Win Match) 1.36 profit £107
Robin Soderling vs Ivan Ljubicic £50 Win Ivan Ljubicic (To Win Match) 4.5 loss £50
Stanislas Wawrinka vs Gael Monfils £100 Win Gael Monfils (To Win Match) 1.67 profit £67
Day end bankroll £10,124 profit £124
Lleyton Hewitt vs Mikhail Youzhny £100 Win Lleyton Hewitt (To Win Match) 1.7 loss £100
Robin Soderling vs Novak Djokovic £300 Win Novak Djokovic (To Win Match) 1.45 profit £135
Gael Monfils vs Jo Wilfried Tsonga £400 Win Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (To Win Match) 1.75 profit £300
Day end bankroll £10,459 profit £459
Mikhail Youzhny vs Jo Wilfried Tsonga £400 Win Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (To Win Match) 1.36 profit £144
Marin Cilic vs Novak Djokovic £500 Win Novak Djokovic (To Win Match) 1.38 profit £190
Day end bankroll £10,793 profit £793
Not a bad week. This was my first week as a full time bettor and i am pleased with it.
here are some of my bets i have on tomorrow
Florian Mayer vs Philipp Petzschner £500 Win Philipp Petzschner (To Win Match) 1.61
Martin Vassallo Arguello vs Rainer Schuettler £100 Win Martin Vassallo-Arguello (To Win Match) 3.25
good luck everybody this week for Shanghai
Hi Joker,
Well, I won with Djokovic yesterday. I just read dj's predictions and decided to place small bets on each. I also bet on Robredo vs Llodra. I have to wait till morning to see results. My bets are much smaller. Being real conservative now.
You said you were taking a break. I just finished my break. I wasn't happy with wimbledon, and didn't place any more bets for the rest of the summer. Really glad I didn't bet on the US Open. I just could not believe all the upsets!! I'm starting back slowly and see what happens.
Once again I have to continue tomorrow or I'll pass out on my computer. There's much I'd love to discuss. Soon, I should have a little more time to participate.
Later, Caroline
Hey Caro and Dj... thank you for the posts....
hey Dj.. $700 profit that's awesome... I still believe that tennis is easier to predict and I still believe there are profit to make... of cource nothign is easy....
and learget bankroll is the only way you can win some money with tennis and Dj is doing that.... if you bet small, tennis bet is tough to make money.....
yeah another reason I stop betting on sport or gambling general is just hard to focus on regular life... just will be thinking about it 24 hours... heck... if the tournament is in Japan... lol.. I will be away 24 hours to check the score especially if you put $100 for each match.... but it is great that this thread is active again... like caro... I might put some small money and build up.. but as we all know it takes long time.....
well, was good to see you people....
oh boy Dj,... i just looked your post and came back here and writing more.. you are betting $400, $300... wow.. that's pretty good.... $10,000 bankroll uh?
i am pretty sure you are still teaching tennis right??? how is teaching going for you?
well, wish you the luck... Final Master Series is coming so look forward to it... oh by the way.. if we start with $1000 bankroll and follow Dj we would be up $75.... and that's not too good.. has to have large bakroll...
Hi guys
well was shocked massively that Petschner lost today but these things happen.
i have 2 more tips for tomorrows matches
Feliciano Lopez vs David Ferrer £200 Feliciano Lopez (To Win Match) @ 3.27
Gilles Simon vs Viktor Troicki £500 Gilles Simon (To Win Match) @ 1.33
i think that 1.33 for simon to win is good value.
also Ferrer may be a lot higher ranked than Lopez however lopez leads 5-3 head to head and 5-1 on outdoor hard so he has a good record and i was very suprised at these odds.
dj
here is just a quick update for anybody interested on how i am doing in last week.
bankroll £10,793
12/10/09
Martin Vassallo Arguello vs Rainer Schuettler £100 Win Martin Vassallo-Arguello (To Win Match) loss £100
Florian Mayer vs Philipp Petzschner £500 Win Philipp Petzschner (To Win Match) 1.61 loss £500
Day end bankroll £10,193 profit £193
14/10/09
Gilles Simon vs Viktor Troicki £500 Win Gilles Simon (To Win Match) 1.33 profit £165
Feliciano Lopez vs David Ferrer £200 Win Feliciano Lopez (To Win Match) 3.27 profit £454
day end bankroll £10,812 profit £812
15/10/09
Nikolay Davydenko vs Fernando Gonzalez £300 Win Nikolay Davydenko (To Win Match) 1.5 profit £150
day end bankroll £10,962 profit £962
16/10/09
Nikolay Davydenko vs Radek Stepanek £200 Win Radek Stepanek (To Win Match) 3.13 loss £200
day end bankroll £10,762 profit £762
18/10/09
Rafael Nadal vs Nikolay Davydenko £500 Win Nikolay Davydenko (To Win Match) 2.75 profit £875
day end bankroll £11,637 profit £1,637
so guys im doing pretty well at the moment. had a lot of bets void this week due to retirements but all in all a good week.
wow that's a big bets... and lots of bets... and that's great you are up... man i don't think i can sleep if i bet like you do.... lol
hope you will keep winning...
one quick question for you...
nothing to do with gambling but about tennis stroke.. do you think top pros.. like nadal, federer ... do you think they use lots of wrist when they hit their forehand?
most people think that they don't use the wrist.. but i really do believe they really pronate their wrist... your thoughts?
well if you look at the kinetic chain of the forehand as a whole you have obviously the legs leading in to the hip then the rotation of the shoulder. At the very end of the stroke their is a pronation of the wrist however it depends on who's stroke you are talking about as to how much of their stroke comes from this internal pronation. This action comes just at at the very end of their contact to add the spin.
hope this gives you a bit of idea
Congrats on the profit DJ :good:
& many thxs for posting your picks & results here..... 8)
Long may it continue..... ;)
hello thank you.....
but i may have different opinion toward that.. for example have tried to hit i mean really hit without using wrist?
just using arm.. and rotation and etc... actually racket speed decrease.... yes wrist break comes after the swing that's why people think there is not wrist... but when you contact the ball , even you using the wrist with slow motion ball just jump off the ball you will never see wrist go over the ball becasue this is very very fast action.... it is just like serve i believe... you can't just rely on the path of motion need fast wrist action....
to me.. either hit flat or spin.. connors, ivanovic, kimiko date.. are good example they don't use the wrist at all. they through the ball.. most guys or girls today i do believe they hit with heavy spin... and if you watch Borg's stroke or mats wilander... actually their swings are pretty similar to today's....
my point is ... everybody gets under the ball when we hit.. correct? and from there.. either go though the ball or from there.. i would think wrist action start.. and racket go around the left arm.. or below... after finish... to me.. abivously if i snap with wrist i get really fast racket speed instead of swing without wrist... well, i love people who hit the ball flat though.. especially kimiko date.. i love way she plays.. but i guess as a teacher i have to teach what modern people are doing... even i teach compact swing... they usually go to loop swing.... anyhow thanks
Oh sorry joker i misunderstood what you wrote before. I thought you meant does the majority of their power come from this wrist action. My answer would be that the wrist plays a key part in racket head acceleration. Try to think of it as car gears. The legs are gear one and start slow but get the car moving, gear 2 the hip coming through and slowly the wing is getting faster, gear three the rotation getting faster now, gear four the shoulder rotation and finally gear five where we are at the highest speed the wrist. THE BIG body parts are what create the initial force phase which translate through to the wrist and is finally where the last big of acceleration of the racket head is pushed through.
i hope this makes things a bit clearer.
thanks
dj
thanks... well, but here is the thing...but i would say there is two different spin i see ... pete sampras spin.. yes he push the ball and come up... more flatter spin... and i see nadal.. completely brush.. ball got lots more spin.. for nadal.. i don't think there is push... i would say his very fast racket speed which comes from mainly wrist.. i don't see any push to the ball.....
I have lots of slow motion footage on a lot of players. The thing we need to be careful of here is are we talking wrist or forearm? The massive amounts of spin come from a rapid internal rotation of the forearm with the wrist adding a very small snap. Nadal does still use the push/punch action you speak about however due to things such as his grip and swing path he does not have as big a strike zone as Sampras therefore making it appear he does not push through however he does as far as his grip allows him to and uses masses of racket head speed from the internal pronation of the forearm across the ball.
This is just the way how i see it however everybody has there different views
Yes that's what everybody will say about top spin.. "no wrist involve" once i took lesson from Zack Fleishaman who has reached top 100 said he just close the racket fast with wrist.....
so your point of view is wrist isn't major part of top spin right? have you tried hit the ball without really betting the wrist? i tried and i can't get the racket head speed to go... you should try it.. hit forehand without breaking the wrist.. just maintain the angle of wrist brush up without using wrist.. it is actually hard to put more spin with it...
and also you said it is a lot to do with forearm right? but don't you think forearm rotation comes from wrist action? if you block the wrist then forearm can only roate with elbor movement...
okay this is another body movement you should try...
try winshield wiper movement without racket.. so elbor is the center.. and move right hand from 3 oclock position to 9 ocklock postion...
1) do this without moving the wrist... how fast you can do
2) do this using wrist movement only... see which one goes fast....
I agree with you that wrist is involved. As someone who when they were playing hit with heavy spin and grinded from the back i will vouch for that. What i will say is though the level of wrist action you are talking about is correct and i think once you reach a certain level the wrist is heavily involved. Due to their great control at contact they can do this massive movement with their wrist and still hit the ball with great control on the other hand i would not coach this someone unless they had the right level of control at the contact which is one reason i dont agree with people being taught to use the wrist as now we have lots of players who can generate high levels of speed but have no control at the point of contact. Also i think the wrist is in the same predicament as all the other body parts as yes it does generate speed and it can move quickly however in order for it to do that it needs the build up work through the chain like other body parts do. that is my point of view.
i know that i use a lot of wrist work with my forehand however i find that when playing if i use a good rotation and pronation i am goig to acheive great racket head speed.
im enjoying this discussion very much. lets keep going with it..
many thanks
dj
Great thanks Dj.. well, i am totally not arguing with you just getting information... and same here is great to share the information.. belive me. tennis swing isn't simple as what we think.. especially top spin involves... nadal, djorkovic , federer , del potro... all hit differently.. i mean not only the take back but when they contact through the ball is different... having all said that.. i actually don't teach top spin anymore... i used to love top spin and i only taught top spin.. but not anymore... i like more though the ball much better it is much more simple and easier to generate the pace.. when i play the match man.. my top spin kills my game.. i just put too much spin and ball is not going anywhere... and now i have this very heavy western grip it is also hard for me to though the ball... i believe how you start is such a key.... i like robert landsorp teaching method. ... though the ball with eastern grip because nothing can go wrong.. pete sampras learn from him and he give so much credit to his teaching.. and he said he will send his kids to him if he is still around...
I really like how Kimiko Date plays tennis.. don't you know her or not.. you should see her on Youtube.. just so simple but gets the job done.. similar to connors.. takes the ball early and though the ball.... i really believe that one of the reason why nadal can win a lot of match is because of cource is great player but i think so many players nowadays hit too much topspin... so no body can beat him from the baseline.. those people who can beat him are those who can through the ball more... like Blake, djorkovic, Del Potro.... i won't include federer for it.. he is more spinny shots... so if sampras, becker, i would say peter koda, they have chance to beat nadal not clay though.. but fast court... i would say that's why spanish player can do well on hard court.. due to many player uses spinny shots...
oh by the way.. i have work with these top coach in US... and they believe that there is no wrist involve when you hit.... everybody is different....
but one thing i know for sure...... follow through the ball nothing can go wrong.. like you watch guys backhand they follow through the ball very well....
thanks
Ok guys here is my update for this week just to show you what i have been doing betting wise.
20/10/09
Grigor Dimitrov vs Jarkko Nieminen £150 Win Grigor Dimitrov (To Win Match) 2.75 lost £150
day end bankroll £1,487 profit £1,487
21/10/09
Nikolay Davydenko vs Marat Safin £100 Win Marat Safin (To Win Match) 3.1 profit £210
Juan Carlos Ferrero vs Marcos Baghdatis £200 Win Marcos Baghdatis (To Win Match) 2.2 profit £240
Day end bankroll £1,937
22/10/09
Feliciano Lopez vs Olivier Rochus £100 Win Olivier Rochus (To Win Match) 3 profit £200
Illya Marchenko vs Andrey Golubev £300 Win Andrey Golubev (To Win Match) 1.56 loss £300
Day end bankroll £1,837
23/10/09
Sergiy Stakhovsky vs Mikhail Youzhny £500 Win Mikhail Youzhny (To Win Match) 1.25 profit £125
Robin Soderling vs Guillermo Garcia Lopez £100 Win Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (To Win Match) 11 loss £100
Day end bankroll £1,862
24/10/09
Thomaz Bellucci vs Olivier Rochus £200 Win Olivier Rochus (To Win Match) 1.72 profit £144
Day end bankroll £2,006
25/10/09
Janko Tipsarevic vs Mikhail Youzhny £300 Win Mikhail Youzhny (To Win Match) 1.5 profit £150
Marcos Baghdatis vs Olivier Rochus £500 Win Marcos Baghdatis (To Win Match) 1.4 £200
Day end bankroll £2,356 profit £2,356
not a bad week total profit for this week was £719 so not to bad.
this coming week i am hoping for a lot of action as 4 tournaments this week.
many thanks
dj