Hi folks,

Not a regular poster but I just thought I'd put this out there for those using or considering using this casino.

Basically I had a good winning night where I tripled my bankroll in a rather short series of bets. It was just one short playing session but it looked really lucky.

Well guess what happened when I came back a few days after that night? I couldn't access their lives games anymore!

I contacted them and got an email from the casino supervisor and here is what he said:

"We write further to your recent contact with our Customer Support team regarding the fact you are unable to play in any of the Live Games in our Casino.

Joyland Casino reserves the right, through our terms and conditions, to accept or refuse the whole or part of any bet placed with ourselves. At times we may chose to restrict the game(s) which a customer may play, but this is within our right to do so. This practice is common throughout the gaming world and whilst we understand you may not be satisfied with this, it is our prerogative to do so.

Regards,

Gabriel Anderson
Casino Supervisor"

Can you believe these guys?

I contacted them again, saying that I too would like to "exercise my right" of requesting that my account be closed immediately (I had already withdrawn my money). But he ignored my request and I had to talk to chat support to have my account closed.

Now what's strange is that I DIDN'T EVEN WIN THAT MUCH! My bankroll before I tripled it was well below $100. Are they really this desperate?

Oh and guess what, I was certainly allowed, in fact encouraged, to play the RNG games while this "ban" was in effect. LoL! That sure tells you something.

Now I know casinos are no charities and they all "reserve the right" to simply throw you out the door as soon as you start making serious money consistently. But that's the point, this was neither serious money nor consistent, just a really lucky short streak where I tripled my bankroll rather easily. I've never been treated this way by a casino. Joyland/William Hill, is such a joke.

I now wonder if any of you guys experienced this.

PS: I found someone who had the exact same experience with William Hill. He posted about it here.

Cheers

To clarify, the night consisted of 8 bets on Red/Black. I won all of them, instantly tripling my account, and then called it a night because I didn't want to ruin the moment (knowing I was lucky). That was my first and last night because when I returned a few days later, I was prohibited from playing at the live tables.

Some people at the CasinoMeister forum (who seem to know a lot about online casinos) told me that this happens because some casinos employ idiots as supervisors who apparently know nothing about math and are always worried that some player is going to come up with some working system. They also don't trust their live dealer feed for the same reason. So if they notice someone getting really lucky they'll prohibit him from accessing live tables.

I find it quite shocking that they are THAT clueless, especially since we're talking about William Hill here, not some small unknown casino operation that can't hire a mathematically literate staff. An online casino with a minimum level of competency should welcome players, especially "system players". But to kick out anybody who gets a lucky (but mathematically POSSIBLE) run?

What's also interesting to me is how they welcomed my continuing to play using the RNG tables instead. I never trusted RNG games and this just reinforced my distrust in them.

Entropy

Maybe it's not just you.  Maybe they feel there was collusion between you and the dealer.  It would be interesting to know if they fired the dealer.

Secondly, maybe they feel you were using either a bot or some elegant software. 

Thirdly, they thought you were Spike, Giz, Cheese, Crackers, I Have Cookies, Number6 or Kimo Li.

OR

You were using a visual ballistics device.

Sam

Hi Sam,

1) Dealers are not online casino employees. They work for an independent company (Paytech) that sells the feed to casinos. I don't think it has anything to do with the dealer, just the fact that I was winning.

2) As for using a bot/software, that should be welcome by any casino that knows roulette is mathematically unbeatable (as you might know, all smart casinos out there welcome system player).

3) Regarding the people you named, IF they are system players, then the above should apply.

4) Regarding visual ballistics, that's when you stare at the wheel/ball and then bet right? Well my understand is that that's something used after the dealer spins the ball. Online casinos close betting before the ball is spun so no reason they should worry about visual players. I don't think they worry about wheel bias either because the wheels are extremely well maintained.

By the way, if any of you guys know any casinos with live dealers that won't kick you out as soon as, let's say, you start getting really lucky, please let me know.

Cheers

Given my own experience with William Hill I am not in the least bit surprised.

Here is my recent correspondence with William Hill with my personaldetais deleted.


In 2009, I had a run of good luck on the horses. Your response to that, was to cap my bets at £27.00.  Until then, I thought WilIiam Hill was a fair and honest organisation. However, far from admitting the truth that William Hill does not like winners, you fed me a load of B/S about my £45.00 stakes, a drop in the ocean, affecting value for other customers. I've never heard so much crap in my life. Though you did tell me, I could bet as much as I like on your rigged RNG.

In the highly unikey event, I do start winning long term using your RNG (quick duck there's a flying pig) how much will you allow me to win, before capping my bets, closing my account or coming up with some obscure reason not to pay me what you owe.

Just for a change,I would very much appreciate a full and honest answer


Subject: No Summary
Dear

Thank you for your e-mail.

We are sorry that you feel that our game is in any way unfair.

The house edge at casino.williamhill.com is exactly the same as a land based casino. It is not like a fruit machine where the machine is programmed to win over a period of time. Whatever the customer has bet on or the amount they have staked has absolutely no influence whatsoever on the number the random number generator arrives at.

All games in the William Hill Casino go through extensive testing before they are made available to customers. They go through a range of different tests by our market leading software supplier, Playtech. When they have tested everything, William Hill provide numerous tests including functionality, load testing and fairness testing.

The randomness of our random number generator is independently approved and tested by comparing a very long sequence of generated numbers to various statistical distributions. If any of these tests are found to be outside theoretical limits, the random number generator is not used.

To provide full transparency, Gaming Associates, recognised for its advanced empirical gambling evaluation & analysis system (AEGEAS), are independently auditing all bets placed on the William Hill Casino site. The results can be found at the following link:

nolinks://casino.williamhill.com/help/fair-payouts

We hope this answers your query. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.

With regards,

Jay B.


Thank you for your imaginative and highly ficticious response. I am however  disappointed (though not surprised) that you have avoided my question

For your conveniece, I shall repeat it here.

In the highly unlikey event, I do start winning long term using your RNG (quick duck there's a flying pig) how much will you allow me to win, before capping my bets, closing my account or coming up with some obscure reason not to pay me what you owe.

Also you still have not provided a satisfactory explanation, as to why you have capped my sports bets, following a winning run in 2009. I don't believe my £45.00 bets affected the odds as you claim. I think the real reason is you are cheats, you don't like people winning.

Just for a change, please provide me with honest information that is relevant to what I have asked you.

Subject: No Summary

Hi

Good day to you.

Upon investigating your query, we can confirm that the decision to limit your stake in all sports has been done by William Hill management.

This was carried out after a thorough investigation of your previous transactions, leading our traders to regulate the amount of stake you can place on our website.

Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.

Kind regards,

Anne

Customer Services
William Hill Online


Yes, it's obvious the decision to cap my sports bets was taken by William Hill management.

I am starting to get angry now. Why are you refusing to give me any reasons, for that decision. You have also managed to wriggle out of  answering my other question.

I really don't know, how to make it any simpler. Let's try again.

In the highly unlikey event, I do start winning long term using your RNG (quick duck there's a flying pig) how much will you allow me to win, before capping my bets, closing my account or coming up with some obscure reason not to pay me what you owe.

Please provide me, with full. honest and relevant answers to my questions

Thank you


I am still waiting for a response to my last e-mail




                                                         

Entropy- Smart Live casino has always paid me without dramas (I play their live dealer game).

It usually takes about 3 business days to get paid, proper ID is a must.
The highest payout so far has been 3,150 GBP back to my Visa Debit Card linked a/c here in OZ & in $$$$.

There has never been any restrictions on my play with them. I've been with them nearly 2 years.

They have a free play mode with a fun bankroll. The play is linked to the live spins. It is the same as the cash bet mode including the bet panel.  Costs nothing but your time to play around with it.

Some features include 185 last spins history & option of display other players bets. They also announce many of the winners & payouts.

All the best with it -                 Ausguy.

It pays to research casinos before bothering to deposit money with them. William Hill are well known for shady behavior

Smart live always pay out no matter how much you win.  Maybe if you won say 100 k or something like that i am not so sure there would be a pay out or a ban.  3K is peanuts to smart live. They pay fast with no problems so i have found.  Me =Not got a system yet that can make 3 k any way!  Not with 1 pound chips any way.  Can make a few hundred here and there .

Quote from: Kingspin on April 25, 2013, 06:50:20 PM
Smart live always pay out no matter how much you win.  Maybe if you won say 100 k or something like that I am not so sure there would be a pay out or a ban.  3K is peanuts to smart live. They pay fast with no problems so I have found.  Me =Not got a system yet that can make 3 k any way!  Not with 1 pound chips any way.  Can make a few hundred here and there .

nolinks://nolinks.casinomeister.com/forums/casinomeister-warnings/49487-smartlives-dodgy-practices-no-pay.html

The best way to keep them honest is MAKE THEM PAY FOR PAYOUT REFUSAL AND POOR BEHAVIOR. It then is more feasible for them to be honest. Forums is the best way, but across multiple sites so it is seen more often. Also add to nolinks.reportcasinos.com

I have stated this before and am stating again. I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY ON LINE CASINO'S.

I had a good run for about 12-16 weeks. I without naming all sites was able to do my withdrawal at ease. Yes, I had to submit Identification, proof of address and proof of age. I had no problems withdrawing the winnings. My winnings were a lot more and in a greater ratio to my deposits. e.g a deposit of $30.00 turning to $500.00 a deposit of $60 turning into $400 and a deposit of $100 turning into $1400.00 There is proof out there about this.

I am not defending any sites. But I am sure there has to be more than what we are told. I am not saying people are making this up. All I am saying is we have to realise that there is 2 sides to any disputes.

I am not defending Jpyland Casino or William Hill with the situation that has been mentioned. All i am stating is I haven't had any bans from any of the two sites so far even with a huge ratio on winnings to deposits.In fact, I haven't played on-line for almost a month now and William hill sent me a free $5.00 bonus deposit with no strings attached.

   

The point is some casinos regularly refuse payouts. It is crooked behavior and you cant trust these casinos. Will you be paid next time?

Quote from: Steve on April 29, 2013, 12:42:51 AM
The point is some casinos regularly refuse payouts. It is crooked behavior and you cant trust these casinos. Will you be paid next time?

Fair enough.

Quote from: TwoCatSam on April 27, 2012, 05:26:47 PM
Entropy

Maybe it's not just you.  Maybe they feel there was collusion between you and the dealer.  It would be interesting to know if they fired the dealer.

Secondly, maybe they feel you were using either a bot or some elegant software. 

Thirdly, they thought you were Spike, Giz, Cheese, Crackers, I Have Cookies, Number6 or Kimo Li.

OR

You were using a visual ballistics device.

Sam

Hey Sam. Apart from number 6 and I have cookies, casinos feed on these players. They love outside bet players which all these guys come under apart from the 2 I mentioned.

Entropy, I was a tiny bit surprised to read that you got banned, simply because you were betting on red or black. Online casinos don't need to ban red or black players. Must of been for another good reason like on the lines of fraud etc.

Guys, William Hill group will ban anyone who is not consistently losing. As simple as that. Even if u lose more than u win, but not so consistently, if you are able to hold on your bankroll for some time, that's a reason for  ban already. I know this very well. They are crazy about those bans. But they ban you from the live games only, you are still welcome to lose on RNG. They are legal crooks, as Steve said. Can't agree more.

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