using the previous shuffle to win?

[John1234]

I made this post over on Garnabby's forum awhile ago. I figured I would post it here too.

In baccarat we often try to exploit randomness. We often look at what is going on within the shoe and we attempt to come up with an educated guess. We do this by looking at past results within the present shoe. Attempting to understand and define randomness within the current shoe is something that we may never get away from. Maybe one day someone will discover a way to define randomness, but for now maybe there is another aspect of the game to exploit. Maybe some degree of success lies within the shuffle...Could we possibly use the shuffle to our advantage? Maybe we can exploit the shuffle with more success than we can do with randomness?

I'll explain what I mean by exploit the shuffle. I have never seen the same shoe back to back. Every shoe seems to have a different texture, no shoe ever seems to be the same. Many of the basic systems that tell you to look for a pattern are always subjected to that fact. The pattern may constantly arrive in one shoe, but it may not come as often the next shoe. I guess this can be described as variance because you will win some shoes and lose the shoes that do not produce the "winning" pattern.

I have no idea if anybody has ever looked into this idea. But maybe we can use the results of the past shoe to have success in the current shoe. We could do this by betting against the results of the past shoe. By doing this we could take advantage of the shuffle. I do not believe that the dealer or a shuffler machine will shuffle the cards perfectly each time and I also do not think it is possible for cards to be shuffled the exact same way each time. Maybe the flaw of baccarat lies within how the cards are shuffled?

Now when I say bet against the past shoe I mean that you track each decision for shoe 1. then you bet against the decisions of shoe 1 when you are playing shoe 2. Then when you play shoe 3, you bet against the decisions of shoe 2, thus you are constantly playing against past results and playing with the idea that the shuffle cannot make a duplicate shuffle.

any thoughts?

[John1234]

update: I originally made this post about a week ago. The day that I made this post I began testing with flat bets. The results were decent but then I realized that I don't know if the 3000 shoes that I have are from the same table. I doubt that they are so I stopped. I think that live play is the only way to test this idea. I have not had the focus to sit down and do it yet.

[Joker]

Yes isn't it interesting... so it means there is no cheating going on.. if human decide the shoe then it can get 30 players.. or only players entire shoe.. but it never happens...

actually i came up with this system  long time ago... the idea is like this. if we see 10 players in straight.. we will never see 10 banks after that... i used this idea and won some money consistently...

for instance.. I waited 7 bank or player to show up... then bet certain time... i am sure you have knotice that if you saw 7 or more streak shoe gets chopy after that... this is more like trend... for instance.. BBBBBBBBBB P BB PP BB P B P B like that...

actually this is the only system i won consistently... i just used 4 or 5 step progresssive and I won 50 hands straight...

then of cource i hit the wall but i was still ahead... only problem with this system is that I have to wait while to get this chance.. and plus  if table is crowded then i can't put money .... but for me... this is the only system I won consistently....

and also I don't know wether this is true or not but i heard this old lady make living by playing baccarat.. and what she does is.. bet $50 or $100 and if you lose then go home and if you win then go home... and I heard she waits long time to get opportunity....

for flat bet... do you guys have any idea.. or are there any time you think you can win more than 50% of time?

For me.. i think there isn't such a thing.. but I would follow someone is really hot.. hitting winning streak.. then i put money....

oh yes... i remember.. this guys was winning crazy.. like $30,000 plus he actually knew which cards was gonna come out...

then i just followed him and I won 5 hands straight... so I think watch whoever winning and follow the person...

or some said that wait till patter like BBBBB P BB<<bet Bank here....

well, over all baccarat is very tough game to win..  i believe it is due to losing the control.... if we were winning then we behave well, but once we start losing then we go nuts and lose our money so fast....

that's why i try to stay away from gambling.. but i still like thinking.....

[John1234]

Yes isn't it interesting... so it means there is no cheating going on.. if human decide the shoe then it can get 30 players.. or only players entire shoe.. but it never happens...

actually I came up with this system  long time ago... the idea is like this. if we see 10 players in straight.. we will never see 10 banks after that... I used this idea and won some money consistently...

for instance.. I waited 7 bank or player to show up... then bet certain time... I am sure you have knotice that if you saw 7 or more streak shoe gets chopy after that... this is more like trend... for instance.. BBBBBBBBBB P BB PP BB P B P B like that...

actually this is the only system I won consistently... I just used 4 or 5 step progresssive and I won 50 hands straight...

then of cource I hit the wall but I was still ahead... only problem with this system is that I have to wait while to get this chance.. and plus  if table is crowded then I can't put money .... but for me... this is the only system I won consistently....

and also I don't know wether this is true or not but I heard this old lady make living by playing baccarat.. and what she does is.. bet $50 or $100 and if you lose then go home and if you win then go home... and I heard she waits long time to get opportunity....

for flat bet... do you guys have any idea.. or are there any time you think you can win more than 50% of time?

For me.. I think there isn't such a thing.. but I would follow someone is really hot.. hitting winning streak.. then I put money....

oh yes... I remember.. this guys was winning crazy.. like $30,000 plus he actually knew which cards was gonna come out...

then I just followed him and I won 5 hands straight... so I think watch whoever winning and follow the person...

or some said that wait till patter like BBBBB P BB<<bet Bank here....

well, over all baccarat is very tough game to win..  I believe it is due to losing the control.... if we were winning then we behave well, but once we start losing then we go nuts and lose our money so fast....

that's why I try to stay away from gambling.. but I still like thinking.....

Your system sounds interesting. It is great that you had success with it. I agree with you about losing control. That is the worst part of progressions. When I start to lose I end up losing control and I lose control of my progression as well. The problem with watching whoever is winning is that they could be using a progression that you don't understand, so it could get complicated.

[John1234]

I am waiting for my 3+capping bot to be coded for me (It only flat bets because I don't have the patience or time to sit here all day and flat bet) I decided to try to make 4 units per day.

On Sat**day I was done week 1 and I was up to 20 units. I missed last night because I was down the shore so today is the start of week 2. I had a 10 unit drawdown on Bet Phoenix today using the 3+capping with progression method. I decided to test around with the previous shuffle idea but I am doing this live on bet phoenix. My plan is to make between 4-8 units then stop playing the shoe. I tested in play mode and I made 8 units then I finished the shoe with 4 units with some of the shoe still left.

[John1234]

7/22/09: +6 units.

Total= +26 units

I am starting to notice some very interesting things as I play through more shoes.

[John1234]

7/22/09: +6 units.

Total= +26 units

I am starting to notice some very interesting things as I play through more shoes.

While the forum was down I continued to play. I stopped at +120 units. I had to withdraw half of that for college text books. I have come up with a system based off the previous shoe and it seems very promising however I am not going to describe it yet. I talked about the original version of it on another forum but I never wrote about two major tweaks that I made. I am going to focus on something else for awhile but eventually I will come back to this system. I need to run my bot to collect continuous live shoes before I can even think about any further testing. But for now I am done playing it live. 

[John1234]

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