Signum system EC B&R

[Mr Chips]

(Shakespeare mode)

Is this a SD, which I see before me,
The letters towards my screen? Come let me clutch thee.
I have thee not, and yet I see thee still.
Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible
To feeling, as to sight? Or art thou but
A SD of the mind, a false creation,
Proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain
I see the yet

Tangram,

As you can see I am cracking up

Yes when it comes to SD I am very dismissive,but as I know you are a decent fellow, I will
give it serious consideration and you did give Signum a good score

My main objection has always been that SD (correct me if I am wrong) includes break even
results. It is quite possible for there to be 3 break even results in a row. I could therefore
walk into a casino, with say £200 and out again an hour later, with £200 and yet the SD will
take this into account, in the number of placed bets, together with future results and it will
lower the SD score, which I consider is unrealistic.

If I can get a satifactory answer to this question, I would be less hostile at the mention of
SD, directed towards any of my systems.

I will most probably agree to your request, but this taking into account of break even results
bugs me.

I will think about whether PB should here or on the website.

Regards

Richard

[Only1Word]

Heres a bizarre session I came across  
Wiesbaden 23/8/06 Tb3

1   15   B
2   23   R    -1
3   25   R     0      M-1
4   29   B    -1
5   25   R    -2      M-2
6   36   R    -1      M-3      +1
7   18   R     0      M-4      +2
8    0                               +1
9    0                                 0
10  32   R   +1     M-5       +1 ch
11  20   B     0     M-6       +2
12   0                               +1 ch
13   9    R    -1     M-7       +2 ch
14   6    B    -2     M-8       +3
15  16   R    -3     M-9       +4
16   0                               +3
17  18   R    -2     M-10     +4
18  32   R    -1     M-11     +5
19   0                               +4
20   3    R     0     M-12     +5
21  23   R   +1     M-13     +6
22   5    R   +2     M-14     +7
23  15   B   +1     M-15     +8
24  27   R     0     M-16     +9
25   6    B    -1     M-17     +10
26   6    B     0     M-16     +9

Have you seen a symbol reach 17 before? With all those pesky zeros, still a great result of +9.

[Tangram]

My main objection has always been that SD (correct me if I am wrong) includes break even
results. It is quite possible for there to be 3 break even results in a row. I could therefore
walk into a casino, with say £200 and out again an hour later, with £200 and yet the SD will
take this into account, in the number of placed bets, together with future results and it will
lower the SD score, which I consider is unrealistic.

Richard,

I'll think on this and get back to you. 

By the way, I do plan on giving your system a try, as soon as I've recovered from the last time around (post-signum stress disorder  ). Just kidding, I did make a start on it but then some errors turned up, so I thought I'd wait until they were fixed, and a few more Q & A's were posted in this thread...

[John1234]

Thank you very much for responding to my questions. I appreciate your hard work and you taking the time to help me out. Next time I have a question I will try my best to find it either on your site or on this forum.

[Mr Chips]

Heres a bizarre session I came across  
Wiesbaden 23/8/06 Tb3

1   15   B
2   23   R    -1
3   25   R     0      M-1
4   29   B    -1
5   25   R    -2      M-2
6   36   R    -1      M-3      +1
7   18   R     0      M-4      +2
8    0                               +1
9    0                                 0
10  32   R   +1     M-5       +1 ch
11  20   B     0     M-6       +2
12   0                               +1 ch
13   9    R    -1     M-7       +2 ch
14   6    B    -2     M-8       +3
15  16   R    -3     M-9       +4
16   0                               +3
17  18   R    -2     M-10     +4
18  32   R    -1     M-11     +5
19   0                               +4
20   3    R     0     M-12     +5
21  23   R   +1     M-13     +6
22   5    R   +2     M-14     +7
23  15   B   +1     M-15     +8
24  27   R     0     M-16     +9
25   6    B    -1     M-17     +10
26   6    B     0     M-16     +9

Have you seen a symbol reach 17 before? With all those pesky zeros, still a great result of +9.

Bizarre is certainly the word for it! I have seen a long run, but they are rare, but never with all
those zero's and still make a +9 profit, truly amazing!

This session should be shown on the website and kept for posterity, it has to be several million
to one chance of a similar occurrence.

I would also have carried on beyond the 20 entry until the run ended. Anyone who says there is
no such thing as trends or you can't take advantage of a trend, should check out this session.

[Mr Chips]

You  will find it easier to set out a session using  table=, all in square brackets and to exit /table all in
sqare brackets. Then Row,B or R, etc.+1,

[table=,]
Row,B or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units
1,R,,,
2,B,-1,,
3,R,-2,P+1,
4,B,-3,P+2
5,B,-2,P+1,-1
6,B,-1,OOO,-2
7,B,0,M-1
8,B,+1,,
9,B,+2,000,-3
10,B,+3,P+1
11,R,+2,P+2,-2
12,B,+1,P+1,-1
13,R,0,OOO,0
14,R,+1,P+1,
15,R,+2,OOO,-1,check
[/table]

In row 7 after the 0 we wouldn't kow whether to bet on Black or Red.

In row 8 there is +1 and as M is new the expectation is that it will continue to M-2.
Unfortunately a +2 in column 3 made it collapse as 0 was wanted and a bet on Red.

There are 12 entries so far, if you like to continue I or someone will have a look at it.

You have made a good start.

I was going to reply to your latest post but it disappeared.

I made an error in the above session. Row 11 should be OOO and not P+2.
After +3 for P to increase there would have to be +4 and as it went to +2,
P collapsed.

[Nherisson]

Mr CHips, you found a total of +5 for this date Wiesbaden 7/03/09 Tb3 but I don't get the same result so can you, or someone else, tell me how you bet for this session please?

Thank you in advance

[Bazeegar]

I was going to reply to your latest post but it disappeared.

I made an error in the above session. Row 11 should be OOO and not P+2.
After +3 for P to increase there would have to be +4 and as it went to +2,
P collapsed.

Thanks for explanation. I removed my previous post as I thought I have not completelu understood application of symbols.

[Tangram]

Richard,

Thanks for adding the number of placed bets to your site.  

Apart from anything else, it's useful because it will serve as an additional check for those who want to verify the results.

Regarding your objection that the measurement takes into account break even results, personally I think that this is a strength, not a weakness. This is because you can still get a good "score", even if your system breaks even (or even loses), so in that sense it's a more accurate and discriminating indicator than a simple profit figure. For example, if your system were to merely break even after 300 bets, the z-score would be 0.467 - not conclusive, and all it really tells you is that more testing is needed. If after a further 300 placed bets the score is now 0.661, you would still be at break even, but the score has increased, indicating that there may well be some merit in the method, even though no profit has been made.

If you were not monitoring the results in this way, then if a system didn't make any profit after a certain number of bets, it's likely that you would abandon it, because to continue testing a method which shows no gain is "obviously" a waste of time.  Also, if you're designing a system, the z-score can give you more precise feedback than profit made, or no. of wins versus no. of losses. By updating the z-score of your results on every bet, you can more quickly and easily see what's working and what isn't - you're more likely to avoid dead-ends and pursue promising avenues.

I'll work out the scores for the results on your site. You may want to add them alongside the "PB" column.

[Mr Chips]

Mr CHips, you found a total of +5 for this date Wiesbaden 7/03/09 Tb3 but I don't get the same result so can you, or someone else, tell me how you bet for this session please?

Thank you in advance

If possible could you produce the session here. It doesn't matter if it's incorrect, as I will
look over it and give you an explanation.

[Breeze88]

Hi All


Ok here is a loong session i tried .. please be so kind and look if iam on the right path ..

still in the learning process


thnx in advance ..

[table=]
1,2,3,4
G,,,
G,+1,,
R,0,M-1,
R,+1,,
G, 0, 000,
R,-1, M-1,-1
G,-2, 000,-2
R,-3,P+1,+1
G,-4,P+2,+2
R,-5,P+3,+3
R,-4,P+2,+2
G,-5,P+3,+1
G,-4,P+4,+2
G,-3, P+3,+1
R,-4,P+4,0
G,-5,P+3,+1
G,-4,P+4,+2
G,-3,P+3,+3
R,-4,P+4,+4
G,-5,P+3,+5
R,-6,P+2,+4
G,-7,P+3,+3
G,-6,P+2,+4
R,-7,P+3,+3
G,-8,P+2,+4
R,-9,P+3,+5
G,-10,P+4,+4
R,-11,P+5,+5
G,-12,P+6,+6
G,-11,P+5,+5
G,-10,P+4,+6
G,-9,P+3,+7
G,-8, P+2,+8
R,-9,P+3,+7
R,-8,P+4,+8
R,-7,P+3,+7
G,-8,P+4,+8
R,-9,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+2,+8
G,-9,P+3,+7
R,-10,P+4,+8
R,-9,P+5,+9
R,-8,P+4,+8
R,-7,P+3,+9
G,-8,P+4,+8
R,-9,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+2,+8
G,-9,P+3,+7
G,-8,P+2,+8
R,-9,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+2,+10
G,-9,P+3,+11
R,-10,P+4,+10
G,-11,P+3,+9
G,-10,P+4,+10
G,-9,P+3,+11
R,-10,P+4,+12
G,-11,P+3,+13
R,-12,P+2,+12
R,-11,P+1,+13
R,-10,P+2,+12
R,-9,P+1,+13
G,-10,P+2,+14[/table]

[Breeze88]

Here is another short session .. well it looks promissing so far .. i hope it is correct

cheerz

G         
R    -1      
G   -2   P+1   
G   -1   ooo   -1
R    -2   P+1   0
R    -1   P+2   1
R    0   P+1   0
R    1   P+2   1
G   0   P+1   0
R    -1   ooo   1
G   -2   M-1   2
G   -1   ooo   1
G   0   M-1   2
R    -1   ooo   1
R    0   P+1   2
G   -1   P+2   3
G   0   P+3   4
R    -1   P+4   5
R    0   P+5   6
R    1   P+4   5
G   0   P+3   6
G   -1   P+4   7
R    -2   P+5   8
R    -1   P+4   7

[Mr Chips]

Breeze your long session with some corrections

[table=,]
Row,G or R,+/-/0,P or M,Units +/-
1,G,,,
2,G,+1,,
3,R,0,M-1,
4,R,+1,,
5,G,0,OOO,
6,R,-1,M-1,
7,G,-2,OOO,+1
8,R,-3,P+1,
9,G,-4,P+2,0
10,R,-5,P+3,+1
11,R,-4,P+2,0
12,G,-5,P+3,-1
13,G,-4,P+4,0
14,G,-3,P+3,-1
15,R,-4,P+4,0
16,G,-5,P+3,+1
17,G,-4,P+4,+2
18,G,-3,P+3,+3
19,R,-4,P+4,+4
20,G,-5,P+3,+5
21,R,-6,P+2,+4
22,G,-7,P+3,+3
23,G,-6,P+2,+4
24,R,-7,P+3,+5
25,G,-8,P+2,+6
26,R,-9,P+3,+7
27,G,-10,P+4,+6
28,R,-11,P+5,+5
29,G,-12,P+6,+6
30,G,-11,P+5,+5
31,G,-10,P+4,+6
32,G,-9,P+3,+7
33,G,-8,P+2,+8
34,R,-9,P+3,+7
35,R,-8,P+4,+6
36,R,-7,P+3,+7
37,G,-8,P+4,+8
38,R,-9,P+3,+9
39,G,-10,P+2,+8
40,G,-9,P+3,+9
41,R,-10,P+4,+8
42,R,-9,P+5,+7
43,R,-8,P+4,+8
44,R,-7,P+3,+9
45,G,-8,P+4,+8
46,R,-9,P+3,+9
47,G,-10,P+2,+8
48,G,-9,P+3,+9
49,G,-8,P+2,+8
50,R,-9,P+3,+9
51,G,-10,P+2,+10
52,G,-9,P+3,+11
53,R,-10,P+4,+10
54,G,-11,P+3,+11
55,G,-10,P+4,+12
56,G,-9,P+3,+13
57,R,-10,P+4,+14
58,G,-11,P+3,+15
59,R,-12,P+2,+14
60,R,-11,P+3,+15
61,R,-10,P+2,+14
62,R,-9,P+1,+13
63,G,-10,P+2,+14
[/table]

I will look at your next one a bit later today.

In case anyone is wondering why this has gone beyond 20 entries, it's for a special test.

[droidman]

Hey Richard,

On Breeze's long session, how did you figure out on row 15
that P would increase back to P+4?

I ask because I lose a lot of bets by these situations.

Thanks
droidman

[Mr Chips]

Hey Richard,

On Breeze's long session, how did you figure out on row 15
that P would increase back to P+4?

I ask because I lose a lot of bets by these situations.

Thanks
droidman

As I mentioned in the previous post, this is a special test I am helping Breeze with, but the question
you have asked will be helpful to other interested members here.

This particular test, as you will have seen has a strong tendency to create a number of C Formations.
Often they are prolonged and after a few rows there will be a brief A Formation, then again C. It appears
to be a characteristic of this particular test, but of course more work will be carried out, to see how this
assumption develops. It was therefore one piece of information I had available to me at row 14.

You will also notice the pattern in the units column, 1010101. Of course there are no guarantees, that
any information will be correct. Sometimes a pattern can be helpful  in columns 2 or 3. I like to think of
these pieces of info, as leading me to an informed decision. They will not of course always be correct,
but a number of such informed decisions, can make the difference between a profitable session and
a loss.

Also rows 12, 13, 14, P+3, P+4,P+3, convinced me that a C Formation had begun. In a regular 20 entry
session, it is likely a further P+4, would be necessary to then expect the development of C, especially
if there was no source of info from the other columns.

Signum was designed for humans to use directly not for a computer program, as the build up of
experience of using Signum seeking out every scrap of possible info in a session will assist the user
in making many profitable sessions.

Regards

Richard

[Mr Chips]

-