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Preliminary Notes On Beating the RNG Software

Started by nullified, March 06, 2011, 05:29:14 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

nullified

These are some ideas that I have on taking the RNG software to it's threshold, while allowing us to profit all the way down and beyond it's ability to throw "losses" at us.

By the way, for those of you who do not believe the RNG software can be beaten, this post is not for you.   Please refrain from comments such as : "Don't be silly, RNG can't be beaten"



1.   The safest type of bet would be one that bets on inside numbers.   Although the odds against any number are 37 to 1, it is much easier to back the RNG software up against it's own threshold.

2.   Betting on outside bets is easy.   It's also easy for the RNG to string along ridiculously long "losses" against you to overcome your winning streaks.

3.   Betting on patterns is easy too.   Similar to simple outside bets, it is not too difficult for the RNG to string together impossibly long losses against you.   The only exception here is if you find a moderately complex pattern, and force the RNG to repeat that pattern exactly in order for you to lose.   That way, even the slightest miss in the pattern breaks the losing streak, and you profit.

4.   Betting on spatial patterns is not profitable.   If we're looking for a pattern on the table layout itself to exploit, we are in trouble.   The obvious reason is that it is far too easy for the RNG software to simply avoid a certain area of the table, or keep hitting a certain area - whichever it needs to do to keep taking your money, and keep you losing.

5.   Most roulette systems do not consider your initial stake, your accumulated stakes, or how much to adjust your bets in comparison to your accumulated bets - or your target.   It seems to me that incorporating the six point divisor solves this problem.   At least you would know how much you started with, how much you've lost, and how much you have to go to reach your target win.   The most common approach to any of these problems is to incorporate a "stop loss" which essentially amounts to - whatever point I need to stop at before I start feeling sick to my stomach.

6.   The most common type of pattern in roulette is the RB pattern.   Knowing that the RNG software is coded to detect all manner of patterns for outside bets, can we use this knowledge to "set up" the RNG?  In other words, can we bait the RNG into detecting our pattern?  The advantage here would be to send the RNG into a defensive mode, at which point we make a "switch" in our betting that then profits from the defensive numbers that the RNG begins throwing at us?

7.   I believe there is a threshold that the RNG will not go beyond.   That threshold is approximately 32 consecutive non-repeating numbers.   Personally, I have never seen anything beyond 25, and that was with the most crooked RNG software I could find (Riverbelle).

8.   So, here is the dilemma:  how can we formulate a roulette bet that "baits" the RNG software, then allows us to "switch" to inside bets;  something that automatically safeguards against massive losses (ie, incorporates something like the six point divisor) long enough to withstand the absolute threshold of the RNG software?  Accomplishing this would be the equivalent to making long term profits from the RNG, while avoiding the obvious drawbacks of playing roulette online.

RobbieD

Whether or not RNG can be beaten will always remain the thorn in our sides.

But I always refer to the following - which you may have seen before - but might enlighten those people who have not:

nolinks://rouletteforum.cc/online-gaming/*documented*-proof-of-cheating-rng-software/

nullified

Hey Robbie,

Thanks for your thoughts on this.   Yes, I have seen this.   And although I am not surprised, I do have to say that I seriously doubt that all RNG's are stalkers or cheaters.

Consider this for instance.   Funding your online casino account has always been left to the services of the credit card companies themselves (who don't care what you do with your money), or perhaps to a service like eGold or something similar.

Nowadays, online casinos are increasingly being accepted by more reputable online wallets like MoneyBookers and, more recently, PayPal.

Now that not mean much to the average person.   But to a gambler, having the backing of an online giant like PayPal is huge.   Paypal has been very reluctant to allow funding to gambling sites in recent years. . .  and rightfully so.   Even PayPal knows how shady many of these gambling companies have been.

But there has been a change in internet gambling in the past 3 or 4 years.   PayPal has actually found some of the gambling sites to be trustworthy, particularly the UK based ones, and allow the average gambler to use their services in connection with it.

So, if you are going to stick with the big online casinos that do accept PayPal, such as Bet365 or LadBrokes or even William Hill, I believe that you'll find that their RNG Software will be more or less fair.

Getting back to the topic at hand, what I am looking into is trying to build the ultimate "trap" for RNG, so that if it does try to go into a defensive mode, it will have no choice but to put up the very numbers that we are waiting for.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

zippyplayer

. . .     if you are going to stick with the big online casinos that do accept PayPal, such as Bet365 or LadBrokes or even William Hill, I believe that you'll find that their RNG Software will be more or less fair. 

Ladbrokes William Hill Betfair and in particular Totesport here in the UK are anything but fair. 











schoenpoetser

Nullified:Your paper is an important contribution to discus the software  driven roulette.I play very often on internet and I agree with you. The RNG is not the malefactor but the software.I try to bring the software in confusion by betting on difference chances and different strategies and hit and run.The number of ECs in a row I found was no more than 15 playing contrary.

Mike

This idea that software is trying to figure out your bets is absurd. If an online casino wanted to cheat you they don't need to go to elaborate lengths like analysing your playing patterns. All they have to do is wait until you've placed a bet and then generate a number which isn't part of your bet.

For most reputable online casinos, I don't believe they would do this anyway. They already win so why risk their licenses with this kind of cheating?

For sure there are rogues around, just do your homework and play at the recommended ones, or better yet, play on a real wheel.

RobbieD

We all know that the game of Roulette gives the Casino a House Edge even without manipulation....but.....

Playtech have to supply software to the Casinos with a virtual guarantee that it will give them a good return; if the software didn't perform, Playtech would be out of business. The Casinos may lose a bit of money here and there, but on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis they need to see a profit, and that's why they turn to Playtech.

Playtech know every single bet there is and have written their software accordingly.

Now, by the nature of the fact that it is software involved, it can never be a true RNG - so this topic may throw up something, and I wish you well in your quest. But I am sure this issue has been raised many times before and will do so again in the future.

Does anyone know how the software is tested by these so-called regulatory companies? Perhaps we could send them some examples of betting to show how strange things have happened to us all in the past? Do they just run a series of spins without even betting? It would be very interesting......

Mike

Quote from: RobbieD on March 07, 2011, 08:34:02 AM
We all know that the game of Roulette gives the Casino a House Edge even without manipulation....but.....

Playtech have to supply software to the Casinos with a virtual guarantee that it will give them a good return; if the software didn't perform, Playtech would be out of business. The Casinos may lose a bit of money here and there, but on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis they need to see a profit, and that's why they turn to Playtech.

Playtech know every single bet there is and have written their software accordingly.

Now, by the nature of the fact that it is software involved, it can never be a true RNG - so this topic may throw up something, and I wish you well in your quest. But I am sure this issue has been raised many times before and will do so again in the future.

It sounds like you're contradicting yourself. First you say "Roulette gives the casino a house edge even without manipulation..." and then "Playtech have to supply software to the Casinos with a virtual guarantee that it will give them a good return"

The "good return" comes from the house edge, no manipulation is necessary. I don't know about Playtech specifically, but I know all reputable, licensed online casinos have their RNG output audited regularly to check that it's fair. If you don't trust RNGs, then don't play them, simple. There are plenty of live wheels you can play online these days.

This argument will go on and on. You can't convince a paranoid person that games aren't being manipulated, because they won't listen to reason. Why bother even trying?

schoenpoetser

Mike I do not agree.The roulette has an Expected Value .If the software is not manipulated the House edge is equal to the EV.If the output depends on the bet it is impossible to proof manipulation of the software.The output is random and not predictable.Manipulation is only to ascertain by controlling the software.Not any softwaredisigner shall permit such a search.
Perhaps you have forgotten why the finance crisis is come into existence.

Mike

Quote from: schoenpoetser on March 07, 2011, 11:17:39 AM
Mike I do not agree.The roulette has an Expected Value .If the software is not manipulated the House edge is equal to the EV.

Yes, the expected value for the casino is positive, with you so far...

QuoteIf the output depends on the bet it is impossible to proof manipulation of the software.The output is random and not predictable.Manipulation is only to ascertain by controlling the software.Not any softwaredisigner shall permit such a search.
Perhaps you have forgotten why the finance crisis is come into existence.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here.  :-\

Yes, it's impossible to prove manipulation of the software if the result depends on your bet, wouldn't that be the point?
I'm not saying that is what's happening, only that IF the casino wanted to cheat you they wouldn't need to track your bets and try to throw up "difficult" patterns.

Mike

Quote from: nullified on March 06, 2011, 05:29:14 PM
knowing that the RNG software is coded to detect all manner of patterns for outside bets, can we use this knowledge to "set up" the RNG?  In other words, can we bait the RNG into detecting our pattern?  The advantage here would be to send the RNG into a defensive mode, at which point we make a "switch" in our betting that then profits from the defensive numbers that the RNG begins throwing at us?

Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. The RNG doesn't "detect" anything. It just spews out random numbers according to an algorithm or a TRNG like radioactive decay.


MauiSunset

What is it with some folks fascination with RNGs?  They want to believe casinos tamper with them, that they can be beaten by finding patterns which repeat and one crazy idea piled upon crazy idea.

RNGs run everything in a casino except where a human dealer/operator is involved.  That's probably 80% - 90% of all profits come from the thousands of RNGs in a casino.

A RNG is just an equation written in a programming language like:

    X_{n+1} = (a X_n + b) mod m


nolinks://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

Basically you start with a seed number, like any large prime number 4374637467 and multiply it by a large number and add another large number to it and then take the MOD of it to map to a number space like 0 - 36.

Put that random number back in and do it again.


That's all there is to a RNG - not one more thing!

zippyplayer

are the online casinos even using Rngs ?

nope


zippyplayer


MauiSunset

Quote from: zippyplayer on March 06, 2011, 10:22:48 PM
. . .     if you are going to stick with the big online casinos that do accept PayPal, such as Bet365 or LadBrokes or even William Hill, I believe that you'll find that their RNG Software will be more or less fair. 

Ladbrokes William Hill Betfair and in particular Totesport here in the UK are anything but fair. 



Easy to say but you offer no proof at all.  Just wild claims.

Why on earth must a casino cheat and if they were caught the newspapers and internet would alert us.


A casino is a license to make money - cheating would just get in the way.

Like I said, when RNGs are brought up the folks who wear tin-foil hats come out.....

MauiSunset

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