Looking for Needles in a Haystack

[SeekingKnowledge]

I just made this post today at Gambler's Glen
and as a result was invited here by a member to repost my case.
Thank you kindly for the invitation, here I am
---------------------------------------

Greetings everyone.

I'm "Seeking Knowledge".
As you can see thats introduction and
my intention both at the same time

Anyways lemme try to explain myself:

I'm most interested in beating roulette. Getting that little Edge over the house that the house usually has over us the players.
--> By any means neccessary , as long as the potential gains outweigh the invested risk and the attempt at it itself has some good merit.

I (luckily) got here searching for information all over the net.
While doing this I came across many many different sites and forums, where people promote their systems and machines and computers and so on. While at first, everything sounded very good , I soon realized (having that naturally developed bullschnitzel detector in my head) that obviously, when something sounds too good its not true, like 99percent of those "system promoters" are scammers, frauds and just try to rippoff the average joes...

At the same time I realized there's got to be the needle in the Haystack. The "holy grail" as you call it here or atleast something I would find and get it to work for me individually.

When it comes to "systems" with no electronical devices involved - I haven't completely build my opinion yet. My thinking so far is that Roulette is unbeatable with any system and that it all comes down to "dumb luck" (in case of winning with the systems) at the end, or worse --> "bad luck" (incase of loosing) , and don't forget the house edge with the 0 is against you too. SO just because one is winning with system X , doesn't mean its system x and not just your plain old luck, unless you have mathematical statistics speaking for you and or prove it again and again in real world scenarios in casinos.

SO---> what seems more appealing and more likely to work is the use of
a computer, prediction , calculation all that fancy pants stuff.

Keeping in mind that such a device would ideally be, completely covert (undetectable by casino security), easy to operate and producing the desired results-->
Again, I went and gathered as much information as I could and

ooooh BOy..thats when the stone really hit the fan...

I came across so so much misleading information stacked on top of even biger piles of misleading information that my head started to hurt.

First of all, just so you know what I know--->

I came across these people and their websites wich I want to mention:
And I'm being fair, as of yet again I HAVEN'T MADE UP MY MIND with a COMPLETE OPINION on any of the persons, or their products wich I will mention and wich I want to investigate deeper. (Hopefully with your help!) So again I'm stressing : I'm not affiliated with any of these sites nor persons, I do not like or dislike them either, I do not believe in their products nor am I saying that they don't work --->
Its the very intention of this post to find whats working who is telling the truth IN THE END ! Okay..

So far I noticed, that these people do each other a great deal of damage by bashing each other on their websites and
for someone like me, and I'm sure for most others too
its incredibly confusing to see through the chaos. Its not clear who started what , who is true , who is lying who is just defending
themselves and so on. I'm sure like everywhere there is an evil minded guy trying to fool, and a good guy who just got sucked in defending.
But ey , who is who ? How to find that one real person with real product

Usually its very easy for me to cut through misleading information, when I'm interested in any product ..I just go to independent forums and see what users say about it and the majority of them is usually right. My logic will pick up on what sounds real and what is fraud.

But here in this scenario (on this forum) its different. There is no majority (because of the small community size), everyone says something different, while all seem to be educated and intelligent people. There are possibilites of people joining under multiple fake names to promote their products and bash the competition - and I'm sure its being used by the evil guys and those whose products don't work. But again who is who ?...YOu could only tell after testing their product yourself - because you can't trust noone but yourself.[ I'm no average joe to get suckered nor am I a rich person to play around, infact I'm very poor so I have to use my brains rather than take chances with money , else I won't have anything to eat.]

Anyways-->
And as a result of this: ALL sellers of electronic devices seem to have a bad reputation (despite of the possibility that some are genuine indeed).

Ok I don't want to make this part of my post called "The Bad guys mess it up for everyone" longer than it has to be. That has already been done in great detail:

nolinks://nolinks.john-solitude.be/scams.html

On this site I found a man called "John Solitude", this person explains with the use of psychology the tactics and methods used by frauds to suck in people. I think its very good, very down to earth and logical and this man has no financial interest nor is he affiliated with anyone too.

So my intention is to compare the sites and people who sell the systems and products against the logic of atleast this Mister Solitude, and ofcourse my logic , and anyone who is wishing to help me in my quest. And pls read what Solitude has to say prior to replying to my post or reviewing any of the promoters.

Ok, I hope I explained myself enough to a point where people will communcate with me in intelligent , success orientated adult ways.

Lets go (The order of appeareance is unimportant):
------------------------------------------------------

nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinnerroulettesystem.com/forester-miro-zirdum/

Person: Miro Zirdum (Forrester)
Products: electronic devices
-----------------------------

nolinks://nolinks.jagergamblingsystems.co.uk/

Person: John Ager
Products: gambling systems
------------------------------------

nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinner.com/
nolinks://nolinks.roulettecomputers.com/
nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinner.com.blogspot.com/]nolinks://stefano nolinks://nolinks.genuinewinner.com.blogspot.com/[/url]

Person: Steve Hourmouzi
Products: gambling systems and electronic devices
---------------------------------------------

nolinks://nolinks.[/url] Get Mark Howe's roulette computer scam for FREE at nolinks://nolinks.roulettecomputers.com/warnmark.html

Person: Marc Anthony Hove
Products: electronic devices
-------------------------------

nolinks://nolinks.survtech.com.au/

Person: Mike Barnett
Products: gambling systems and electronic devices
-------------------------------------------------

nolinks://nolinks.rouletteprediction.com/

Person: Jafco
Products: electronic device
----------------------------

nolinks://advantageplayer.com/roulette/index.html

Person: Laurance Scott
Product: gambling system
------------------------



Alright these were the nominees, feel free to help to add more
if they are worth checking out.

Now lets continue:

Things to keep in mind.

I read through all of these peoples sites/forums/products/comparisons/
forum comments and forum battles here and other places too.
Thats why I got so confused and decided to respect each and everyone of them until I know much better. Because so far: I'm not in their shoes and its hard to tell who is real.

Also lets keep in mind that if YOU the members of this forums , readers of this post decide to chime in and comment on person x and product x - remember, for you to come across as real and truthful and to actually add some value to this thing here,
u need to comment fair and respectful, providing as much detail, evidence and information as possible.

And even if you do this - even then noone can be sure 100% that its really a normal unbiased person and not someone of the above mentioned promoters in disguise or their affilates und anonymous ips and so on trying to promote or bash...

See the difficulty..??  Dayyyomn.

For example if you bought someones system and it didn't work, while the seller insists it does work. Send it to me. Upload it on rapidshare. Make it available to the public here. Together we will cut through the chaos.

So basically I have a 3 step A B C plan to get down to the needle

A) is trying to find a gambling system that works, learn all about guessing predicting ..see how that works. Hopefully I will get consulted by u or guided to places with valuable info. But as I said before, A, sofar contradicts with my logic wich as I mentioned tells me Roulette is unbeatable by systems and only beatable with natural luck. Wich bring me to B)


B) Out of all these sellers, theres got to be atleast one with a working electronix device and a covert setup. I hope I can find this one, with your help and my indepth investigation attempts.
I don't know what to do best yet , maybe contact each of them personally, put them to the John Solitude scam test by asking the right questions, then if I'm allowed by them , post the results and conversations back here for you to see and comment

By any means I need to buy or better yet lend me such a computer and not get ripped off

------> Now if all these attempts fail, wich I think is highly possible due to the possibilitys of scam, fraud and impersonation on forums--> my last plan before desperatly robbing a bank :-D


C)  Be my mentor ! (let me be your wingman)

let me introduce myself a little better:

-I live in Germany and fluently speak 3 languages, wich is german , russian and english.

- I'm currently unemployed. Wich allows me to devote myself to this matter 24/7 anytime anyplace.

- I'm 25 years. 1.95cm tall (good for keeping an eye above the crowd and on the wheel !!! ) Handsome ! Wich is good because people who are attracive are rated as "honest and trustable" per se, by others (casino stuff!!)

- I can confidently selfproclaim myself a psychologist expert,
a hobby and interest of mine since many years - so I know all about conveying a certain bodylanguage, tone of voice, content and quality of language to others to get a desired effect, wich in a casino szenario would mean "operate covertly while seeming to be a normal person enjoying some gambling with friends."

- I can quickly read people, and adopt to situations. Keep my cool no matter what.

- I have several friends with similar qualities.
- I have several girlfriends who are so beatiful that they can draw
all the attention from all people in any place. Pretty good for distraction !

- If everything should not work, I would just continue living the happy live I already live, because my needs to feel happy are extremly low

Its just that I have a big family and they are all poor too and don't have my mindset, because they didn't have the chance to grow up like I did ---> so they suffer from simple life problems.
Money can fix that for sure and I will bite my ass not if what I plan don't work out , but if I don't take a good chance at it , because the possibility is obviously there !!!

- Oh I forgot: I have my own flat and offer free stay to anyone legit sounding person who wants to come here to team up with me and rock germany or europe. (Good if u was banned everywhere in your countries, wasted the money on big houses and cars and need more money to keep up the high standards. Just come over !!!!

- Also: I'm willing to come to your place, if you are interested, need a partner and so on , anywhere in europe and england. Australia and Amerika is too far..but if the opportunity sounds good I will go there too.

- Maybe the biggest argument is: Germany is far behind security wise.
We have all kinds of casinos, ranging from top notch to almost falling apart , with tilted wheels , lazy unaware stuff, non changing of wheels and so on. The opportunitys are incredible.
I did some reasearch on german internet and its obvious we are so far behind with this..i think out of 80 million inhabitants a mere 1000 know about system and maybe a hundred use electronic devices and of these again only few successfully...

Ok thats it for now, I'm interested in your comments,
if there are things u don't want to say public just write to my email:
suchewissen@yahoo.de

Peace

SeekingKnowledge


----------------
Edited foul language - Pls Excuse Me French :-D

[winkel]

Was bietest du eigentlich als Gegenleistung für die Überlassung einer Gelddruckmaschine?

welche deutschsprachigen foren kennst du denn?

br
winkel

[VLSroulette]

SeekingKnowledge, [smiley=welcome/welcome01.png]

Please do tell us more about you. 

When it comes to "systems" with no electronical devices involved - I haven't completely build my opinion yet.

Over here there is an amount of people which while not having "the positive egde" in the hit ratio like official advantage players have still make money. How? By using money management and streak/luck management. Main goal being winning more than losing by means of losing less when on a bad streak and winning more when riding a positive one.

Perhaphs you are still open to trying these type of roulette strategies? Does your request has to do only with computers?

Kind regards.

Your friend,
Victor

[SeekingKnowledge]

@ Victor

I totally understand the concept of "money management" and "hit and run" tactics.
Infact this was my very own idea  how to make good money upon first time hearing
about Roulette.

My simple thought back than was:

Hmm..Why do people loose ? Because they are greedy, don't know when to stop.

So what if you go in , place  5€ on red then if u  win u have ten, if you loose
place double the amount on red to again win and recover the loss.
Whenever you win, put away the win and start new with just 5€

so it would be something like:
5
10
20
40
80
160
320
640
1,280
2,560
5,000

So its like you have 11 chances to win/rewin what u invest and hopefully get out with 100€ plus
and then simply repeat every day.

Upon rethinking this: I realized several things.

I need to be already rich to pull this off. The bigger your capital the more chances you have to rewind your money before total bankrupcy.

Also the fear of a loosing streak of more than 10 times in a row and not having sufficiant funds to recover , ever - stopped me from doin this. Until now. Maybe I'm missing the point or lacking more knowledge. But you really need big money prior to attempting such a thing AND while at it build up experience to get a feel for riding the lucky waves and avoiding the unlucky strikes.

It's not just the electronic devices that interest me. I'm willing to dig deeper into everything promising.
Its just that with a working electronic device with an invisible earpeace you have a very clear advantage and can make the biggest moneys in shortest amounts of times , without ever worrieng about bankrupcy..all u will have to worry about is not getting caught with the pants down anytyime anyplace because that would mean complette banning from all casinos of your country maybe even international.


@ WINKEL

Welche Foren ? Na z.B nolinks://nolinks.roulette-forum.de/ und weitere kleinere,
Ich habe diese lediglich überflogen und mich da nicht angemeldet weil mir auffiel das die
englischen weitaus vielversprechender scheinen in Bezug auf elektronische Helfer.
Dies mag ein Irrtum sein , Ich lasse mich gerne eines besseren belehren.

Als Gegenleistung für die Lizenz zum Gelddrucken, würde Ich das machen was die Person
die mir diese Lizenz ausstellt von mir wünscht solange es für mich möglich , menschlich , fair und vertretbar ist. z.B 50$% Gewinnbeteilgung oder ein fester Betrag von so und soviel tausend Euros die Ich demjenigen bezahlen würde im Laufe meiner eigenen Gewinne.
Ich könnte mich als Wingman anbieten, oder halt meine Arbeitskraft bei allem was mit Casino zu tun hat. Selbstverständlich erfährt der/diejenige welcher meine komplette wahre Identität und Ich unterschreib meinetwegen notariell Beglaubigte Abmachungen. Solange mir jmd die Möglichkeit bietet selber was an Kapital aufzubauen. Denn genau das ist das Problem zurzeit. Ich bin arm/arbeitslos und habe lediglich 1000€ beiseite geschafft um eben mit Roulette entweder mit System oder einem elektronischen Helfer was zu versuchen. Sprich entweder den taui in einen Helfer investieren der wirklich funktioniert = Gelddruckmaschine..oder riskieren mit system um grösseres Kapital aufzubauen und dann mit Hit and Run und Disziplin über lange Zeiträume kleine Beträge zu gewinnen.

Wie du siehst habe Ich nichts zu verlieren, kann also nur gewinnen


-----------------

I guess its not allowed to use foreign languages here (and I don't want to p**, hmm tick off any more moderators   , but since he asked me in german I replied in german too. To sum it up , he asked
whether I know any german Forums and what I would offer in return for a money making blue print , to wich I replied (sum up-->) I would do anything I'm asked for in return as long as its within "reasonable ranges", being broke and poor and with only 1000€ as capital for attempting anything, I MUST invest in something that WILL produce results. Be it electronic or paper. Thus my effort to find the needle



Peace

SeekingKnowledge

[winkel]

goto

nolinks.roulette-board.de

electronical devices are not allowed! So don´t pay money for such things.
Besides that, they don´t work either.

br
winkel

[SeekingKnowledge]

Thank you
I will go to that Forum and check it out,

though "only theoretically" I have to disagree with you
theoretically such a device CAN work,

while ofcourse you are right its not allowed and a huge risk
maybe you are right in the long run too, that there is no comercially available working device as of yet.
..but only maybe   thats what I'm trying to find out...

Hmm..but then again , judgin from the input I already recieved via pm and email from both Forums,
it really seems so far that the majority of people rely on skills and papersystems with moneymanagment rather than testing/using devices.

[Carlitos]

...............some months ago there was on the Wiesbaden permanenzen an streak of 19 reds after each other. That's like 19 times to win or to loosse...... Like you say with the example of 11 changes to win and rewin......





Carlitos 

[SeekingKnowledge]

@ Carlos and others...

These occasions, like 19 times red and so on are extremly rare aren't they ?

Mostly if I look at permaneces, I see that the outcomes are mostly scattered around:

Like: for example... a couple of times it hits black in a row of up to four , than it hits red, same thing , every now and then it hits a zero and sometimes it jumped between red and black..

(over exagurated:) Very rarely there are strikes like 100 times red or 100 black or 100 zeros...

So, how can u possibly ever really loose in the long run if you do something like this:

Place 5  on red , if you win good , place 5 again on red.. if you loose now still stick with red but place 10 to cover up the loss

Stick to this like 4-5 times untill you see "the amount of scattering between red and black" or in other words : the permanence of th elast plays wich indicates the probability of whats to come next: red or black,

so, considering what I said first: (the 20 times red events are extremly rare),
if you see that for example red came up 2 or 3 times in a row in your 4-5 plays,

and no matter if you won ,  or lost (if lost you would be covering up with a doubleamount bet)
you choose the next color to be balck to bet on - cos its logically more likely to appear now.
If it does - good , then go for black again...and so on and so on...

combine this with "moneymanagement" wich is a set amount of money for example 100$ wich you want to win - then hit and run, combine that with intuition and some sort of experience, feeling of riding the wave, feeling for when you are lucky or when its better to call it quits and go home...

With this and simple progression , you are still more likely to win ...or if not  loose , but still be able to cover up with double bets more likely..(if you lost 4 times on red ...next-->sit on black with your cover up bet till it hits it...then stay there a bit and go back to red...)

Ok, now feel free to expose my current lack of understanding
I'm learning by communicating ehehe



Btw, to all the people who contacted me and send their systems,
you know who you are thank you very much , I will check them out one by one, one after the other
and report back to you.

Oh and for christs sake, somebody pls send me his cracked version of "Sniper Roulette",
I really want to join in testing this too.

I do have a cracked version, virus free from a 0 day site but for somereason it don't work on my computer - wich I reccon might be this specific versions fault, or might be due to my messed up winxp, in anycase - if you care to try it too , I will send it , then pls report back.

I mean its really not about those 39bucks to pay the seller and recieve a full legit version,
its just I don't own a credit card to do so and I don't really need one..and getting a creditcard to buy a piece of software wich possibly could end up as being useless - is not that cool , is it...
on the opposite if it works out I will send this guy his money in a letter with a big smile in it !!!

Peace

Seeking Knowledge

[Carlitos]

...............indeed they are rare  but just as you think that it would not happen it always happen and thats roulette  !!




Carlitos 

[SeekingKnowledge]

@CARL I T O S .. yes they will come , because they are theoretically possible , but nonetheless statistically unlikley - we have mathematics goin for us.

I found what I thought up myself in a more precise better layed out way. It helps me to understand progressions and then once I got that in my head, continue understanding more complex and more slow and more safe progressions.

Check it :


Roulette : Progression Strategies
Written by Wise Bettor

I have played my share of Roulette—was even a dealer in a casino. It never ceased to amaze me how many progression strategies for Roulette came out. In some of the local casinos, here in Las Vegas, you could find someone with a notepad playing Roulette any time of day. So, are these progression systems worthwhile? If not, can they be played effectively in a modified form? These are the issues I will tackle today.

Simple Progression System

A simple progression system doubles the last losing bet until a bet is won. They are almost always done on even pay bets such as odd or even, red or black and so forth. For example: 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128 and so on. As you can see, by bet number eight, you are wagering 128 units to win one unit. To perform this simple 8-scale progression, you would need 255 units—and of course zero streaks of 9.

Let's back up for one moment. In Roulette, there are 38 possible outcomes (1-36, 0 and 00). Whether you are betting odd/even or red/black, you have a probability of 47% (.474) that your bet will win. It would seem like this system is a sure fire way to get rich, but hold the phone. Have you ever flipped a coin? Did it always come out heads, tails, heads, tails and so on? Of course it didn't. There is always a chance that you will lose multiple times in a row. So what's the probability of losing a bet multiple times in progression?

One Time: 53%
Two Times: 28%
Three Times: 15%
Four Times: 8%
Five Times: 4%
Six Times: 2%
Seven Times: 1%
Eight Times: .006%
Nine Times: .003%

So what's this mean? Most of the time you will be on the front of your progression scale, however if you where to play 100 spins, you would be at your seventh progression once, which means you would be wagering 64 units to win one. If you continue playing, by your 167th spin, you would have hit your 8th and final level—128 units to win one unit. Finally, after a long session, you play your 333rd spin and lose it all.

This is assuming that the numbers work out. However, you could very well walk up to play and 20 spins in—it's over. For the numbers to hold true, you would have to play an enormous number of spins. If you had a large enough bankroll and played enough for mathematics to hold true, each "series" you would lose 255 units, but win 333 units—a profit of 78 units.

How long would 33 spins take in a casino? That's a real good question. It all depends on the dealer. Some dealers (and houses) are trained to keep the game rolling along. You might have a spin every minute. Others take their time, and if busy, it could be 5 minutes between spins. Let's compromise and assume a spin delay of two minutes. That equates to roughly eleven hours per cycle, which further equates to 7 units per hour gained—$7 an hour with $1 units.

Padding Your Progression

Let it be known that I despise progression systems in their true form. Yes, when I was younger I developed some systems, used them and made money, but with age comes wisdom. Straight progression systems are very risky and you lose a lot of value if played unmodified. A really large bankroll, and a strong stomach, is needed to properly play a progression system. Here is a tip I used to use when playing. If you must play every spin, this is not for you. By the way, some houses force you to play each spin so find one that's not that way.

You see my probability chart above. I am going to add on three more losing spots.

Ten Times: .002% (1 in 500)
Eleven Times: .0008% (1 in 1250)
Twelve Times: .0004% (1 in 2500)

Modified Simple Progression System

Ok, here we go. The plan is to sit there and wait for an odd/even, red/black or 1-18/19-36 to pop up three times in a row. When that happens, you ride the other side. The end result is you increasing your odds tremendously—your first bet has a 92% chance of winning. Another result will be staying in the front part of your progression scale. To get wiped out, you will, in theory, need to play 2,500 spins—not the 333 as before. The downside is waiting for the three consecutives to pop up. However, since there are three sets to play, odds/evens, red/black and 1-18/19-36, the opportunities will come. It is a slower system, but 7.5 times more secure. If each cycle were to play out mathematically, you would lose 255 units and win 2500 units—a profit of 2245 units.
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11 Responses to "Roulette : Progression Strategies"

   1. Cat Says:
      January 8th, 2006 at 8:27 pm

      How about a progression on the First 12, second 12, or third 12.
      I've worked this out and come out about even in three trys in
      Las Vegas over the last 5 years. My last trip to Vegas was last
      month and the max bet on most wheels were so low A progression system
      would not work. Your comments please....Cat
   2. WiseBettor Says:
      January 8th, 2006 at 9:17 pm

      Well, I'm not a big fan of true progression systems (1,2,4,8,16,32) from the onset. You lose value quickly and I have seen too many streaks in my lifetime.

      Any system can seem to work in the short-term. The real test comes with extended play. As far as the 12's go, I have seen one section not show up for an hour. That's why I don't like large progression scales. Some important factors to look at are the wheel, the dealer and the spin type. Some dealers spin the same way all the time and some vary it. Also, the wheel can tend to favor certain numbers because of mechanics.

      If I use a progression system, it's a limited one. Maybe I might go 1,2,3 and restart or 2, 4 and restart. In these cases, I would watch what's not coming up and look to play it. For example, a pack of 12 has a 31.5% probability of coming out. If I see the first twelve not showing up for X spins, I might jump on it.

      By watching and playing a missing component, you, in theory, increase your odds of winning. Just like if you flipped a coin three times and it was heads and then bet on tails for the next three times. The mathematics are on your side for those next three flips.
   3. Cat Says:
      January 9th, 2006 at 8:38 pm

      On the 12s I use a 1,1,1,2,4,8,16,24,32. If by the 9th spin I haven won a bet then it time to go see a show. The problem is I must find a wheel with a very low min bet and a high max bet. Binnions is the best I've foundin Vegas, $4.00 mim $5000.00 max
   4. WiseBettor Says:
      January 9th, 2006 at 9:04 pm

      Yea, that's the problem. However, most houses should be able to take 32x action if you bet the table minimum.

      I have not been in old downtown for a bit (that's where Horseshoe is), but you can also check out places like the Plaza, El Cortez and so forth. They typically have the lowest tables around (especially El Cortez–but it's a dump).

      Technically, a section of twelve has a 31.57% probability of showing up on any particular spin. Given a large enough sample size, the probability of striking out on all nine bets is 3.28%. So, it will happen–as will everything else theoretically possible.
   5. Cat Says:
      January 12th, 2006 at 10:29 pm

      Yes it can happen, I went 0 for 9 at Foxwoods 2 years ago, lucky it was a low max bet table so I didn't get hurt too bad. I live on the east coast and plan a trip to Foxwoods in April. Hope to get back to Las Vegas in May 2007. Than you for the input....Cat
   6. Fijibob Says:
      January 20th, 2006 at 12:35 pm

      Roulette - try $1-2-3-4-6-9-13-20-30-45-67 (11 spins)
      It works over 98% of the time after over 30 years playing.
      Worse case, you lose $200 and it takes around 100 winning spins to
      re-coop - work online at a European or French table ONLY (that takes
      the 00 out of the game). Never stay at a table longer than 30
      minutes. Start the progression over at $1 after very win. Each win
      brings you +$2 since the last win. nolinks://nolinks.winonlinetoday.com/strategy.html
      Good luck.
   7. Franko Says:
      January 24th, 2006 at 1:14 pm

      WS - I was in Vegas last weekend and by accident stumbled upon the modified progression strategy (roulette). It worked nearly flawlessly but got scary when I got greedy once. In two days of play I only got to 8 spins three times. From your memory as a dealer, is the mathmatical probability of hitting 9 spins truly what the math would say, i.e. .003? And 10 spins 1 in 500? Did you see many runs of say, 14, and 15, or 20? I want to be prepared and find my cap? Thanks!
   8. WiseBettor Says:
      January 27th, 2006 at 6:44 pm

      I saw many streaks when I was dealing. However, it's important to realize that I was in one area for many hours at a time (8+). If you are going to use any progression string, it's important to limit playing time and move around. When I was dealing, I would see runs every single day pretty much. There was also a lot of times when a progression system would work just fine. It's really a timing thing.
   9. Cat Says:
      January 28th, 2006 at 7:21 pm

      Please walk me thru the math and explane the percentages...Cat
  10. WiseBettor Says:
      January 28th, 2006 at 8:23 pm

      I am not sure what exactly you want to know, so here's something to start with. Let's look at the math of red/black. We will be looking at the American version of Roulette. There are 38 possible numbers on the board. 18 of those numbers are red and 18 are black. Therefore, if you bet on either red or black, you have 18 possible winning numbers and 20 possible losing numbers, which is a winning probability of 47.3% (18 divided by 36).

      Ok, keep the number .473 in mind. If you want to find the probability of two red or blacks being spun consecutively, you would take the probability of each event and multiple them against each other. So, .473 multiplied by .473, which is .223 or 22.3%. Therefore, the probability of two reds or blacks coming up consecutively is 22.3%.

      While anything can happen in the short term, you will find that mathematical numbers tend to hold true long term.
  11. David Allen Says:
      May 27th, 2006 at 4:03 pm

      Hi Wise bettor - How about a little help? Any list of online Casino's that dont start at $1?
      I found the aussie 1 cent ones. So I have 2 - Ant more?

      David Allen
  12. Rusty Says:
      August 14th, 2007 at 10:15 am

      I know that charles e hamshire, the pro.gambler has never used a progression system. He is one of the top roulette players and makes big bucks. He now has a website with free info. for roulette players. win3million.com Good site for professional only. I used to use progression,but dont anymore. Learn from real pros. Rusty.
  13. Mike Says:
      August 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pm

      I do the fruit wheel at one dollar and 2 dollar (2nd bet) then I head to casino war for the 5,10,20,40,80,160 dollar bets (take back half on all ties) then I head to the blackjack for the 320 and on up at the high limit tables, never failed me yet 320,640,1280,2560,5120,10240,20480,40960,81020...been up to the 12th bet but made about 400k doing this

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p.s. Feel free to see this thread and its posts as "SeekingKnowledges evolution" thread,
evolving as in --> me gaining more knowledge and experience...
I mean don't be dissapointed if I post things wich I "just" discovered for myself wich most likely are
old news for you pros...Bare with me, maybe one day I'll be able to share something new coming from myself   I learned now that for a progression to possibly work , you need a table wich allows to skip spins + has a very low mind bet and a high max bet..else your recover chances are too limited.
Comments are welcome !

Kind regards

SeekingKnowledge

[SeekingKnowledge]

Well ok , just sharing some things I found out for myself in the last days:

I finally went and bought the "Roulette Sniper" software directly from the seller , cos he offered paypal payment too, since then I was reading what I was advised to read on these forums to get a better understanding of the purposes , the limitations and the configurations of this software.

The default settings I started with and the ones from various youtube vids, cause me to blow my bankroll rather quickly, untill I

tried with these settings :

nolinks://vlsroulette.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3238.0;attach=407;image

and this so far has produced total wins for each session played.

A total win is the "reaching of the goal you set for today" - Wich in My case is 10% of bankroll.
So starting with 1000€ each time I want to end up at 1100 for this day to call it quits.

A session is the total amount of time invested, total amount of spins,winslosses to reach your goal of a total win.

So I played minimum wage 1 . started 1020 and ended up 1120 after 118 spins and 53 wins...took me more than an hour to do so.

This I repeated again and again at goldenpalace.com in the fun money section for american roulette.

Sometimes it took me 30-40 mins sometimes 2 hours but on the average around 1 hour to get the 10% and be out (= restart table/changetable/quitgame)

VERY IMPORTANT: In no session was there a higher drawback than 150€: I mean I never had to go past having to recover more than 150 to keep on playing to get to the 10% !!!!!

These are some of the remarks made by other users here wich I find to be worth considering or rethinking:

"""""""""-PROOFREADERS200-
"If it works for you then it works.  I just made dozens, rows, and even money bets.  (I never thought of trying inside bets.)
R.Sniper works in such a way that you really anticipate the number selection the program chooses (right or wrong)
You need stop loss and (wLwL) judgement for it to work (IMHO)."""""""""""""""

"""""""""""""""""""""
"TwoCatSam:
P and D,
OK, you're right Peter, BUT, I just did some research and this is what happens and why different people get different numbers.
Say your high is 20 and your low is 10 and you have checked random.  The program will randomly pick a number from ten to twenty.  You and I can have the same settings and you may start betting at spin ten whereas I would have to wait until spin 20 depending on the random number picked.
Now, if you uncheck the random box, the program will begin betting when the low number has slept for your input value.  Example:  You pick line, which is this bird's name for a double street, and you put in 10 as the low value.  When a d/s has slept for ten spins it will alert you.
This program is just a sleeper-checker!
Actually, it's just what I needed!!  I can set it for 74 spins on the single and I got my sleepers-turning-wakers!
Samster
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"TWOCATSAM":
Using the numbers from 9.6.8, I plugged in a $500 bank roll and at spin 200 I was at $1011.00
This program does nothing but alert you when your split has slept for 37 spins (My input number) and then begins the progression on it.  There is nothing mysterious about it.  It is based wholly on the Martingale powered by the Gambler's Fallacy!!  Can you believe it??
EDIT:  Right off the bat I hit the session from hell and lost the above mentioned $500, BUT...at several points I was up $50.  So I will apply a version of the Peter Principle and quit at 10% of bankroll.  Bankroll is $500 and bets are $1 for starters.  If I make it to $1000, I will up the bet to $2. Here are the settings I have created for my Sniper:
Line: 12
Trio: 24
Corner:  20
Split:  37
The Random Box is unchecked on the above.  I want to do the singles at 74 but you can't leave the box unchecked so my single setting is:
Singles: Low-74; high-75 and the random box IS checked.
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Twocatsam:

Hello on Monday Morning Oklahoma Time.............
Well, what do we think?  Made one mistake and did a page 2, but it was a winner also.  Sometimes the actual win far exceeds the goal because, since this is a Martingale, you may have $10 on a split or trio and it adds up quickly at the end.
What do we think?  Is the Gambler's Fallacy coupled with the Martingale the key to the mint?  Don't  change that channel!!
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TWOCATSAM:
mad
Who knows?  I'm amazed at this thing.  I don't trust RNGs as I still am wary of them.
CD
I started with a $500 imaginary bankroll and am up $900 in profit.  My draw downs have been minor, say around $200 units.  Once I did go very low, but it was after I had already won and kept going.  I then went to Peter's idea of 10%.
Peter's idea was to either lose the whole bankroll or win 10%.  I am not betting $2 units, so I could lose it all.  I think if a person applied the bankrolling system outlined by Victor and tested by Matty, this could be a killer system.
Still, it's too early to tell.
Sam
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TWOCATSAM
CD
Why do you think that first sentence is in there?  I know this is a Martingale based on the Gambler's Fallacy.  Friend, I'm just having some easy fun here!
Sam

CHICKENDINNER:Hi Sam,
Don't get me wrong mate; I know you're only having a bit of fun with this thing. I'm just using my experiences to demonstrate how when a system relies on big draw downs, a big loss is inevitable. I wouldn't want any newcomers to read this thread and then start betting real cash with SR because of your early test results. BUT, it might have the potential to do very well with some sound MM.
Cheers
CD

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
PETER:
Is the Gambler's Fallacy coupled with the Martingale the key to the mint?
hahaha sam that made me laugh hard!   Grin
But then I remembered another joke, the wheel is not random the sniper is!
So maybe it's better to play with a random sniper, so there is like a battle going on between two bodies of randomness (if that makes sense)
I'm still busy working but thanks for putting so much effort into this.
I think if the best settings can be found and the correct bankroll strategy can be found might be a winner?
What is the latest body of opinion?   is the roulette sniper sh!t hot or just sh!t?
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
MADUPS4:
I think it's the real deal.  The main reason is, it's not just one progression going on.  At any one time the software can and does keep track of many many different bets that are "due" to come in.  Some come in and obviously some do not.  Most of the time, the ones that are coming in, offset many of the long losing progressions of other bets that are going on at the time.  Finding the optimal settings that is conservative yet random to keep going into profit should make it a consistent winner.

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DEFINITION OF GAMBLERS FALLACY:

The gambler's fallacy, also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy or the fallacy of the maturity of chances, is the false belief that if deviations from expected behaviour are observed in repeated independent trials of some random process then these deviations are likely to be evened out by opposite deviations in the future. For example, if a fair coin is tossed repeatedly and tails comes up a larger number of times than is expected, a gambler may incorrectly believe that this means that heads is more likely in future tosses.[1] Such an event is often referred to as being "due". This is an informal fallacy.
The gambler's fallacy implicitly involves an assertion of negative correlation between trials of the random process and therefore involves a denial of the exchangeability of outcomes of the random process.

While a run of five heads is only 1 in 32 (0.03125), it is 1 in 32 before the coin is first tossed. After the first four tosses the results are no longer unknown, so they do not count. Reasoning that it is more likely that the next toss will be a tail than a head due to the past tosses - that a run of luck in the past somehow influences the odds in the future - is the fallacy.

As an example, the popular doubling strategy of the Martingale betting system (where a gambler starts with a bet of $1, and doubles their stake after each loss, until they win) is flawed. Situations like these are investigated in the mathematical theory of random walks. This and similar strategies either trade many small wins for a few huge losses (as in this case) or vice versa. With an infinite amount of working capital, one would come out ahead using this strategy; as it stands, one is better off betting a constant amount if only because it makes it easier to estimate how much one stands to lose in an hour or day of play.

[edit] Other examples

We can see from the above that, if one flips a fair coin 21 times, then the probability of 21 heads is 1 in 2,097,152. However, the probability of flipping a head after having already flipped 20 heads in a row is simply 1 in 2. This is an example of Bayes' theorem.

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Well Ok thats all there is to it.

Following my posts in this thread and the learning that came from understandig of "progression systems" applied to roulette and testing "roulette sniper software myself and by others"
this is all of it combined and mixed, the core of it all : ---> Will do that asap cos right now my head is turning and my fingers hurtin from clickin those numbers

[SeekingKnowledge]

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