Ronjo's 3 Group System.

[TwoCatSam]

Ran this through about 80 spins in the motel this morning (I never quit! "Sir, Could I get that coffin with WiFi?") 

This thing begs for testing with real money and now that Lanky has put up the splits version, I can go for .25 per number.  I am working on a progression slide rule thingy (not near as pretty as those wheels, rjl) but it will make calculation much easier.  Well, for me anyway.  I get so damn confused I need training wheels on me arse just to walk straight!

Good on ya, Lanky!  Health and winnings to you and Nancy!

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

Sorry, Guys, I forgot and used my hard lead .5mm pencil.  Should have used .9mm soft.

[TwoCatSam]

Lanky

Facts are black; questions are navy.

Here is an actual trot from today at Riverbelle:

3
3
1.....here we bet for 2
3
1
1
1....here the 2 is dead and we bet for 1
2....now the 2 is active again..................Should I continue betting for 1 or return to 2 since it is now active
2
2
0
1......winner

Next trot: (hypothetical)

1
1
3.........go for 2
1
3
3
1.......2 is dead; go for 3
1
1
2........alive again
1....Since I have missed 4 betting for the 3 and the 1 is dominant in the last three, do I continue on with the 2 or switch to the 1?

I realize the answer to my first question could make this question meaningless, as the 2 coming alive again would answer all.

Thanks!

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

All........

I've been looking for the bad run and today I got it.  A $1 per number would have swollen to $10 per number before you hit.  I am thinking of a plateau.  I am thinking like this:

"OK, I will bet up to $5 per number and stop there should I not be winning.  I will flat-bet the $5 until the tide turns and I start to win again.  When I get below $5 I will start the progression again."

It seems like for every long run (six or seven losers in a row) there are a slew of winners that hit on the first or second bet.

Input anyone?

Sam

Victor,

I misspelled the word "losers" just to test the new feature.  It works!

[Lanky]

HI Sam.

Like I have said in a post before Mate I record the 1st 20 spins & work down from spin number one to see what patterns have developed.
No patterns no bets.

There is a reason for this My Mate.
It will keep You out of the Sessions from hell when they come.
Or at least keep your losses to a minimum.

Another thing that I have not told yet (time & health have not permitted) is that from these Hell sessions I have learned to win with this by playing the Lw's as If we would on the JD so to speak.

That's  another reason why I always record the number spun it tells me a lot when it come to the time to bet the Lw way.

I will do a post as soon as I can following this I will do a post using a set of numbers that Wally did the other day.
It is one of the worse sessions You will ever see.
But I wonder if w can still get some dollars out of it ??
We will see.
..........................................................................
But I will answer Your Questions as they stand here now Mate.

Lanky

Facts are black; questions are navy.

Here is an actual trot from today at Riverbelle:

3
3
1.....here we bet for 2 <<correct as DUE
3
1
1
1....here the 2 is dead and we bet for 1 <<correct as DOM
2....now the 2 is active again..................Should I continue betting for 1 or return to 2 since it is now active

Doing it my way I would bet for G1 to still be Dominant/and record the fact that G2 is back in Play so we can turn back to the DUE Groups after these bets
2
2
0  <<I would win here too Sam
1......winner <<correct

From here I would call on 3 more numbers & then Bet The DUE

Now look back Sam all the other bets would be Virtual Losses The 1st time a V/win shows up is on G1 that You have winner written.
That sure saved you a stack of money My Mate.
Providing of course that you were recording the spins like I do.

Next trot: (hypothetical)

1
1
3.........go for 2 <<correct as Due
1
3
3
1.......2 is dead; go for 3 <<correct as Dom
1
1
2........alive again
1....Since I have missed 4 betting for the 3 and the 1 is dominant in the last three, do I continue on with the 2 or switch to the 1?

You ca see that G2 came back into play that tells me that the DUE is back in Play.
So I would call on another 3 numbers 1st before playing the DUE

I realize the answer to my first question could make this question meaningless, as the 2 coming alive again would answer all.

Thanks!

Sam

Your Mate

Lanky

[Lanky]

Hi Wally.

This is using V/L= Virtual Loss and of course V/W= Virtual Win.

And how it can Identify a Hell Session sometimes.

I know we have touched on this before but I thought I would remind You that's all Mate.

You walk into the Casino and see this.


Call 3 spins


5-G3
7-G3
10-G1

GROUP 2 DUE


15-G1-V/L
4-G3-V/L
30-G3-V/L
19-G1-V/L

GROUP 3 DOMINANT


21-G2-V/L (<G2 back in play as the DUE)
14-G1-V/L
26-G2-V/L
25-G2-V/L

Call on 3 more spins


10-G1
16-G1
21-G2

GROUP 3 DUE


0-0- <<IGNORE AS V/WIN
19-G1-V.L
3-G3-V/WIN << 1st Virtual win

Call on 3 more spins

20-G2
7-G3
8 –G3  << Note Spin 20 <<
(Note only 1 win in 20 spins Being in Virtual saved us 7 lost bets)

GROUP 1 DUE

20-G2-L-(1)
26-G2-L-1(1)
9-G3-L-11(1)
22-G2-L-111(2)

Group 2 Dominant

Wally I don't know about You but there would be alarm bells going off every where for Me.

With only 1 win in 11 bets not counting Zero. In a 24 spin Total

Let me pose this Question to You would You go into Virtual again

And wait for another Win to Come.

(After all You know that I have a 2 bet stop loss on the Lw method & I have gone to 4 losses here as if I was playing the L on the JD or LD )


9-G3-V/L
1-G1-V/L <<(G1 back in play for DUE )
30-G3-V/L
1-G1-V/L

Call on 3 more spins


35-G3
5-G3
16-G1

Group 2 Due

16-G1-V/L
3-G3-V/L
24-G2-V/Win

Call on 3 more spins

20-G2
12-G1
17-G1

Group 3 DUE


27-G2-L-1112(2)
13-G1-L-11122(3)
19-G1-L-111223(4)
0-0-0-W-1112234(5)=19 Outlay-less 15 back= Minus 5
34-G3-W-1112(2)=7 Outlay-less 6 back= Minus 1

Call on 3 more spins


31-G1
31-G1
10-G1
22-G2

Group 3 Due

4-G3-W-1(1)=2 Outlay-less 3 back= +1 unit= $12

Less $9 for bets on the Zero={$3} Profit. On a Single Zero wheel.


And if you were betting both the 0 and the 00 separately on the 00 wheel You lose -$6

There was only 6 possible wins in 47 spins.

Now that's a Hell session.

But in Your Case Wally you lose $6 instead of approx $900.

Your Friend .

Lanky.

Ps.
My Mate Wiggy who is a Clever Guy Plays this differently to Me .
I will ask & see If he will do a post.

[wiggy]

Lanky's idea about watching for early patterns for 20 spins is a top idea, this will indicate how you should attack the session. I also play for 5spins chasing the due group then 5 spins chasing a dominant group.
These spins suggest ok dispersion amongst the 3 groups...
In this case I would Call on 3 spins to see our "due" group...if it was bad I'd track against 5 spins
I track different to Lanky where If I see groupd 3,2,1 come out I will wait until I get a set of 3 spins which doesn't include a group for example: 3,2,3, or 1,1,2 where the "due" group is clearly visible. This is just my way of tracking and everybody should test and see what works for themselves.
Here's Lanky's numbers or Wally's with my method of attack.

5-G3      
7-G3      
10-G1   G2 is now due   
15-G1   L   
4-G3   L   
30-G3   L   
19-G1   L   
21-G2   W   
14-G1      
26-G2      
25-G2   G3 is now due   
10-G1   L   
16-G1   L   
21-G2   L   
0-0   W   Always hedge Zero - He will save you from despair
19-G1      
3-G3                              G3 - 7
20-G2                              G2 - 5
7-G3   G1 is now due                           G1 - 7
8 –G3    L   End 20 virtual test spins and dispersion looks ok stick with tracking 3 numbers                        Z - 1
20-G2                              
26-G2                              
9-G3   G1 is now due                           
22-G2   L                           
9-G3   L                           
1-G1   W                           
30-G3                              
1-G1                              
35-G3   G2 is now due                           
5-G3   L                           
16-G1   L                           
16-G1   L                           
3-G3   L   
24-G2   W   
20-G2      
12-G1      
17-G1   G3 is now due   
27-G2   L   
13-G1   L   
19-G1   L   
0-0   W   Always hedge Zero - He will save you from despair
34-G3      
31-G1      
31-G1   G2 is now due   
10-G1   L   
22-G2   W   
4-G3   End...   

[Shan]

Hi Lanky

When I put the Math behind the progression whilst using the splits framework with 0's in the mix every bet, I can't quite figure out how to get my negative balance above its entry point. Other then receiving a few WWWWs to bail out the increasing water. Is this correct Progression below I tried to apply your calculations.

My registry is as follows and hopefully you can help me find a path back up to the +1.

Thats even if I have played your progression correctly, where will I start the progression now? Back at the beginning even though I am 11 units down?

LLLLLWLLWLLLW
1112231121112


[table=,]
Spin,Bet,Cost,Won,Total
L,1,7,0,-7
L,1,7,0,-14
L,1,7,0,-21
L,2,14,0,-35
L,2,14,0,-49
W,3,21,54,-16
L,1,7,0,-23
L,1,7,7,-30
W,2,14,36,-12
L,1,7,0,-19
L,1,7,0,-26
L,1,7,0,-33
W,2,14,36,-11
[/table]

Thanks for you time Lanky

Shan

[Lanky]

Hi Shan.

Thank You for the Post My Friend.

Firstly Its not MY progression.

I first came across it some years ago.
It was called the DOZEN RECOVERY BETTING PLAN.

It is the progression that Ronjo uses.
I think that Ronjo worked it all out Himself.

Which is no surprise to Me as the Man is very clever.
And in His answer to Jerek in the chat the other night.
He told Jerek that He has not lost a Bankroll in 4 years.
Now there's a Testimony to the Man's ability.

And Secondly this statement of Yours.

Other then receiving a few WWWWs to bail out the increasing water.

I would not call 3 wins in 13 bets exactly a plethora of Wins My Mate.

It's a 23% hit rate.

And another Win would get You Even again with You Bankroll.


And if You look back through the posts here that I have done you will see things like this underneath where I have made provisions for taking the Zero bets and subtracting them from the profit at the end of the sessions.

Less $9 for bets on the Zero={$3} Profit. On a Single Zero wheel.
And if you were betting both the 0 and the 00 separately on the 00 wheel You lose -$6

So in effect I would have nearly the same result as You.
Because I made provisions for 13 & 14 numbers betting them individually.

But a Dozen Recovery Plan that has more then 12 numbers in it is not going to work as it was originally designed to do My Friend.

Because betting 12 numbers with a payout of 2/1=33.%
So taking 14 numbers or 7 splits=38.8%.
So Your actually losing approx 5.5% in return per bet.
And that's closer to 6/4 in reality.

6/4=1.5 to 1.... Not the 2/1 that the progression was built around.

That may not seem much in the scheme of things.
But to put this into perspective I will do this example for You.
$100 bet @ 2/1=$300 return.
$100 bet @ 6/4=$250 return. 

The point I am trying to make is that by betting more then 12 numbers or 6 splits.
Then the percentages of the returns have been tampered with as the Progression Plan was designed to return to the player.

And I think I made reference to the fact that there would have to be some trade off betting the splits.

However if You want to take care of that while you are betting then you will have to make some provisions to do so.
But by doing this your bets will rise faster as You Go.

And that's ok too, I guess it will all come down to how each player wants to do it.
And His or Hers tolerance for betting bigger units and risking more money.

Shan apart from the fact that you either don't like or don't recognise the safety factor in only losing small with a 23% strike rate.

Then I can suggest that we ask Wiggy to post his 10 step progression.
Where 1 win in any of those 10 bets will net You a Profit.

But You will want big balls to play it on a losing run.

Shan its not about winning every time.
Its about how much You don't lose My Friend.

Once again thanks for the post Shan

I hope I have been some help to someone somewhere.

Good On Ya Mate.

Lanky.

[TwoCatSam]

Its not about winning every time.
Its about how much you don't lose 

There's one to post on the mirror, the frige, in front of the toilet and next to your compter.

Sam

[Kingpin]

Its not about winning every time.
Its about how much you don't lose 

There's one to post on the mirror, the frige, in front of the toilet and next to your compter.

Sam

Nice One Sam! I'll print this one out before my next attempt at the tables 


Kingpin

[TwoCatSam]

Be sure to add Lanky's name under it!!

He said it; I just copied it.  I copy most everything!

Sam

[kompressor]

after 4 lost of the due group we switch for dominant group for how long ? do we switch again after 4 lost or stick to this group till it win ?

thanks

[Shan]

Thanks for your time and effort Lanky, I really appreciate your reply to my questions/statements. Your points are very clear and honest and I always admire the integrity of fellow Aussies when you're out of the country.

This is very intriguing how the 23% win rate can leave me with a such a small loss if I choose to leave the table now. If I intelligently waited for the next win with Ronjo's progression or DOZEN RECOVERY BETTING PLAN I could be all balanced out. With the suggested $500 bankroll or $250 for split betting I can clearly notice that there is no dent in my armor. It's not an issue if I disliked or failed to see the safety in this balanced diet. It was more to see if the progression which I was learning being played correctly and Its OK that it didn't climb to a positive on every win. I thought I was playing it incorrectly. It's intention is more to my liking now you have pointed a few key things out.

The 0 or 0/00 is an added addition to bet strategy which I forgot about, we do have a choice here. As I have noticed eventually pays itself back, if not in this session but then it may add up in the next, so I will continue to add it in playing the 7 splits.

Wiggy hi,
            As Lanky suggested it would be nice to see your alternative betting plan if you don't mind sharing?

One last thanks to Ronjo and his clever mind.

Kind regards
Shan

[Wally Gator]

Lanky has taught me both Ronjo's system and Wiggy's playing of it.  For me, I'll stick with Ronjo's method as modified a bit by Lanky because last week I ran 500 spins using the modification Wiggy made with the 10 steps and it failed twice.  For me, the loss is simply too large.  And, just when I was recovering the damn thing lost again.

Now, that all said, if I were looking for the quick win and quit it was fine.  But I purposely played it looking for a loss and then to see if it could recover.  So, had I started on the loss I would not have recovered.

Says alot about Lanky's comments regarding it not being about winning, but about not losing. If you find yourself going down the slippery slope, STOP, evaluate what's going on and restart with different patterns forming.  Lanky is exceptional at teaching all this.  But, you gotta listen to what he's teaching.

Best, Gator

[Wally Gator]

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