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Is a wheel a wheel a wheel? (A wheel is a wheel is a wheel, they say!)

Started by TwoCatSam, April 02, 2009, 01:43:46 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TwoCatSam

Wheelers........

I'm starting out on a new train of thought. 

Why are wheels all different sizes?  Some are huge and some rather small.  Some are deep and some are shallow.  Some have deep vanes; some shallow vanes and some no vanes at all.  The Huxley Starburst has little "Vs" where the ball comes to rest. 

Some person designed these different wheels with a purpose in mind.  What was it?

Why different ball sizes and weights?  If ball A is random, why do we need ball B?  I know:  One is harder, one is lighter, one is softer and one is heavier--but why?  If you looked at a Baracky Billion spins with each ball, would there be a difference in patterns? 

Now, should someone say, "Well there are all these variables to make the game harder.", then I would have to say there is a difference to be made, right?  If there is a difference to be made, what is it? 

Why, I'm sure you're asking, do I ask.

Back in the good ol' days, when I was a member at CasinoWebCam, I had great success with R. D. Ellison's 3Qa system--even thought he says it won't work on the European wheel.  In the past year when I got on at Wild Jack and the other Microgaming casinos, I tried the 3Qa and had lousy results.  The wheel at that time was not a Starburst.  Then they changed to the Starburst in November of 08.  For the past few days I've been running tests on the 3Qa with the Starburst at Microgaming.  I'm finding the same patterns that I once did at CasinoWebCam.

To summarize: 

Works at CWC with Starburst;
Does not work at Microgaming with medium vane wheel
Does work at Microgaming with Starburst.

So, is a wheel a wheel or do different wheels tend to support certain systems and tank others?

Sam

bombus

Careful. Or I think we're in danger of not being able to see the forest for the trees.

I'm guessing make it flashy, make it durable, make it stand out from the others, and make it functionally random would be the modus operandi here. Because I reckon wheel marketers have sales at the top of their priority list, and busting punters would run a very poor second if it rates at all.

Don't forget the inbuilt house edge takes care of bus loads of punters on every wheel.

TwoCatSam

bombus

Thanks for your reply.  To sum you up, esthetics is the only reason for making a wheel different.  I actually hadn't thought of that; I was thinking along the lines of functionality.

I don't think the manufacturers try to build a wheel that is functionally different any more than the guys laying the hardwood on a bowling lane try to make it play different from the others--but they do play different!  Trust me on that one!

I agree, this whole idea makes no sense.  I'm just seeking input.

Sam


VLSroulette

Sam, I disagree on your idea NOT making sense. It does.

What happens is roulette can be faced under two different approaches and BOTH are right.

1) A random game, on which it doesn't really matter what configuration you have (RNG, roulette, deck of cards, dices... whatever can generate an integer up to number 36). As long as variables are dense enough as to not allowing certainty over the next spin, that's valid.

2) A physical device. For which EVERY DIFFERENT VARIABLE counts. Wheel materials and design, Dealers, ball size, how many diamonds, etc.

When people like Manrique affirm there is no difference as to dealer change he says it regarding the RANDOM GAME OF ROULETTE.

When people like Kimo and others say you have to be aware of dealer change, they say it regarding the Physical approach.

Both are right. Both are valid. At their own area.

Also when Visual Ballistics players monitor like a hawk new configurations in wheel designs they are doing so because this changes the game for them.

Every quantificable factor counts.

For instance ball scatter acts like another "randomization layer". At a shallow pocket wheel, there is expected lesser ball scatter when dealer is "stuck" at hitting a certain wheel area, which can lead to some layout dozens/columns/double-streets to "Stick-in" also because of their numerical configuration on the disk.

Over a low-profile wheel with spoon-shaped pockets these type of signatures are neutralized by a more random expected ball scatter, direct product of wheel design.

So yes Sam, there ARE "wheel signatures" to consider like you say, you may be onto something.

Nothing has to work at every condition / wheel. If it works where you play, that's what count.

Regards,
Victor

Davey-Jones

My theory is wheel designs/types are similar to hand shuffle vs. auto shuffle in cards. Streaks or clumps may appear more often on certain wheels/shuffles than on others even though in the long run it should/will balance out. I am not saying some wheels are immune to streaks, but when combined with other variables such as Dealer Signature it is possible that some wheel will streak more often than others. In short numbers seem to even out quicker on modern type wheels than on high fretted wheels. But that is just my theory and personal observation. Please don't bite my head of if you disagree.

TwoCatSam

Davey

I won't bite any heads.

Thanks for your input.  I cannot say one way or the other, but there "seems" to be difference in wheels.

Sam

claudebouden

Everyone who is familiar with the ins and outs of casino gambling is probably aware now of the kind of Roulette wheels.  So its not a good idea to change the wheel size.

VLSroulette

Hello Claude, [smiley=welcome/welcome.gif]

Just removed a link to a casino advertising page from your first post as it wasn't relevant to the topic (and gives you no Pagerank by the way). If you want to contest this move, please take the time to elaborate and convince us your link is relevant.

You must understand we need to verify:
a) You are an actual human being (one-line spamming bots way too popular these days  ;)).
b) You are giving a bona-fide well-meaning link and not just trying to "swipe" the link on your post.

[smiley=dankk2.gif] and hope to hear more from you as a productive poster at this community.

Victor


atlantis

Hi Sam,

Your post reminded me of these lyrics from "Thomas Crown Affair":

Round, like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel.
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnaval balloon
Like a carousell that's turning
Running rings around the moon

Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on it's face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Like a tunnel that you follow
To a tunnel of it's own
Down a hollow to a cavern
Where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving
In a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble
Someone tosses in a stream.

Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on it's face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Keys that jingle in your pocket
Words that jangle your head
Why did summer go so quickly
Was it something that I said
Lovers walking allong the shore,
Leave their footprints in the sand
Was the sound of distant drumming
Just the fingers of your hand

Pictures hanging in a hallway
And a fragment of this song
Half remembered names and faces
But to whom do they belong
When you knew that it was over
Were you suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning
To the color of her hair

Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
As the images unwind
Like the circle that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Pictures hanging in a hallway
And the fragment of this song
Half remembered names and faces
But to whom do they belong
When you knew that it was over
Were you suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning
To the color of her hair

Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
As the images unwind
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Bye,
A.

atlantis

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