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Joker

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Re: Tennis Betting
October 22, 2009, 12:51:59 AM
thanks... well, but here is the thing...but i would say there is two different spin i see ... pete sampras spin.. yes he push the ball and come up... more flatter spin... and i see nadal.. completely brush.. ball got lots more spin.. for nadal.. i don't think there is push... i would say his very fast racket speed which comes from mainly wrist.. i don't see any push to the ball.....


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djroulette

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Re: Tennis Betting
October 22, 2009, 06:08:19 AM
I have lots of slow motion footage on a lot of players. The thing we need to be careful of here is are we talking wrist or forearm? The massive amounts of spin come from a rapid internal rotation of the forearm with the wrist adding a very small snap. Nadal does still use the push/punch action you speak about however due to things such as his grip and swing path he does not have as big a strike zone as Sampras therefore making it appear he does not push through however he does as far as his grip allows him to and uses masses of racket head speed from the internal pronation of the forearm across the ball.

This is just the way how i see it however everybody has there different views
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Joker

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Re: Tennis Betting
October 22, 2009, 10:19:51 PM
Yes that's what everybody will say about top spin.. "no wrist involve"  once i took lesson from Zack Fleishaman who has reached top 100 said he just close the racket fast with wrist.....

so your point of view is wrist isn't major part of top spin right? have you tried hit the ball without really betting the wrist? i tried and i can't get the racket head speed to go... you should try it.. hit forehand without breaking the wrist.. just maintain the angle of wrist brush up without using wrist.. it is actually hard to put more spin with it...

and also you said it is a lot to do with forearm right?  but don't you think forearm rotation comes from wrist action? if you block the wrist then forearm can only roate with elbor movement... 

okay this is another body movement you should try...

try winshield wiper movement without racket.. so elbor is the center.. and move right hand from 3 oclock position to 9 ocklock postion...
1) do this without moving the wrist... how fast you can do
2) do this using wrist movement only... see which one goes fast....


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djroulette

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Re: Tennis Betting
October 23, 2009, 06:04:49 AM
I agree with you that wrist is involved. As someone who when they were playing hit with heavy spin and grinded from the back i will vouch for that. What i will say is though the level of wrist action you are talking about is correct and i think once you reach a certain level the wrist is heavily involved. Due to their great control at contact they can do this massive movement with their wrist and still hit the ball with great control on the other hand i would not coach this someone unless they had the right level of control at the contact which is one reason i dont agree with people being taught to use the wrist as  now we have lots of players who can generate high levels of speed but have no control at the point of contact. Also i think the wrist is in the same predicament as all the other body parts as yes it does generate speed and it can move quickly however in order for it to do that it needs the build up work through the chain like other body parts do. that is my point of view.

i know that i use a lot of wrist work with my forehand however i find that when playing if i use a good rotation and pronation i am goig to acheive great racket head speed.

im enjoying this discussion very much. lets keep going with it..

many thanks

dj
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Joker

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Re: Tennis Betting
October 24, 2009, 12:02:22 AM
Great thanks Dj.. well, i am totally not arguing with you just getting information... and same here is great to share the information.. belive me. tennis swing isn't simple as what we think.. especially top spin involves... nadal, djorkovic , federer , del potro... all hit differently.. i mean not only the take back but when they contact through the ball is different... having all said that.. i actually don't teach top spin anymore... i used to love top spin and i only taught top spin.. but not anymore... i like more though the ball much better it is much more simple and easier to generate the pace.. when i play the match man.. my top spin kills my game.. i just put too much spin and ball is not going anywhere... and now i have this very heavy western grip it is also hard for me to though the ball... i believe how you start is such a key.... i like robert landsorp teaching method. ... though the ball with eastern grip because nothing can go wrong.. pete sampras learn from him and he give so much credit to his teaching.. and he said he will send his kids to him if he is still around...

I really like how Kimiko Date plays tennis.. don't you know her or not.. you should see her on Youtube.. just so simple but gets the job done.. similar to connors.. takes the ball early and though the ball.... i really believe that one of the reason why nadal can win a lot of match is because of cource is great player but i think so many players nowadays hit too much topspin... so no body can beat him from the baseline.. those people who can beat him are those who can through the ball more... like Blake, djorkovic, Del Potro.... i won't include federer for it.. he is more spinny shots...  so if sampras, becker, i would say peter koda,  they have chance to beat nadal not clay though.. but fast court... i would say that's why spanish player can do well on hard court.. due to many player uses spinny shots...

oh by the way.. i have work with these top coach in US... and they believe that there is no wrist involve when you hit.... everybody is different....

but one thing i know for sure...... follow through the ball nothing can go wrong.. like you watch guys backhand they follow through the ball very well....

thanks

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djroulette

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Re: Tennis Betting
October 25, 2009, 07:33:08 PM
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