good design cool

[Number Six]

I hate stuff like this, self-proclaimed experts who actually know nothing.

Landis, FYI, 18/37 is the probability of winning an even chance bet. The odds are 19 to 18 against, or 1.05 to 1. The payout is 1:1. There is a little lesson for you. I doubt a "real" math guy would persistently mix these up. Auf wiedersehen, champ.

[winkel]

Hi PhilC,

let me explain it with an example

We have three spins with R and B
possible spins:
RRR
RRB
RBR
BRR
BBR
RBB
BRB
BBB

if you sort them up
1 only R
3 2R1B
3 2B1R
1 only B

you now have to imagine, that probability can only pick one of these figuers
so the odd for a mixed one is 8:2

the more spins you take (e.g. 100) there is still one only R and one only B possible, but the mixed ones increase their possible number by y^x.

any order of R&B is still equal to appear
but a "single-coulour-one" has an odd of 1 : all others, that means (2^100)-1

br
winkel

[Landis]

Your understanding of probability appears to be very narrow and limited, I suggest you learn a little more about it before attempting to lecture others. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Oh, really... Please tell me where I'm wrong.  Please don't tell me that you too are one of the gambler's fallacy guys.
Tangram, my comments to Winkel are spot on.   Please tell me why you feel his method will work.   

odds - 7 dictionary results
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odds  /ɒdz/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [odz]  Show IPA
Use odds in a Sentence
See web results for odds
See images of odds
–noun (usually used with a plural verb) 1. the probability that something is so, will occur, or is more likely to occur than something else: The odds are that it will rain today.  
2. the ratio of probability that something is so, will occur, or is more likely to occur than something else.
3. this ratio used as the basis of a bet; the ratio by which the bet of one party to a wager exceeds that of the other, granted by one of two betting opponents to equalize the chances favoring one of them: The odds are two-to-one that it won't rain today.  
4. an equalizing allowance, as that given the weaker person or team in a contest; handicap.
5. an advantage or degree of superiority on the side of two contending parties; a difference favoring one of two contestants.
6. an amount or degree by which one thing is better or worse than another.


Definition of probability - 5 dictionary results
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prob⋅a⋅bil⋅I⋅ty  /ˌprɒbəˈbɪlɪti/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [prob-uh-bil-I-tee]  Show IPA
Use probability in a Sentence
See web results for probability
See images of probability
–noun, plural -ties. 1. the quality or fact of being probable.
2. a strong likelihood or chance of something: The probability of the book's success makes us optimistic.  
3. a probable event, circumstance, etc.: Our going to China is a probability.  
4. Statistics. a. the relative possibility that an event will occur, as expressed by the ratio of the number of actual occurrences to the total number of possible occurrences.
b. the relative frequency with which an event occurs or is likely to occur.


—Idiom5. in all probability, very probably; quite likely: The factory will in all probability be relocated

[Landis]

When describing the red/ black you can say the probability of red hitting is 18/37 the odds against it hitting are etc........
Get the idea?  

People will frequently interchange the words chance, probability, and odds.   I will frequently interchange odds for probability just because it's quicker to type.  My post is still accurate, regardless of the "syNtaX"

Guys, my points is this, you're wasting your time with this law of the third and gambler's fallacy crap.

You need to investigate advantage play methods and design systems designed to attack the gaming device.



-Snowman

[Number Six]

Lol, what is all this BS?

BTW, your post is not accurate. Odds and probability are different. Only people who don't know the difference use them interchangeably. For a real math guy it's not great that you're resorting to dictionary definitions to validate your inaccuracy. A real math guy wouldn't make the mistake in the first place. The probabilty of winning an even chance bet is 18/37, the odds are 1.05 to 1 against. The odds are not 18/37, that gives 0.486, which is the probability of hitting.  It's lame that your excuse is "it's quicker to type". Probably, it isn't. But what are the odds?

[Landis]

Number Six,

Perhaps you should explain to me why you feel Mr. Chips and Winkel's systems are valid.  

Don't play syntax games with me.  My point was still valid.

[Tangram]

Oh, really... Please tell me where I'm wrong.  Please don't tell me that you too are one of the gambler's fallacy guys.
Tangram, my comments to Winkel are spot on.   Please tell me why you feel his method will work.   

I didn't say you were wrong, just that what you've said regarding a sequence of 100 reds in a row being just as likely as any other sequence is quite misleading. I can't comment on Winkel's method because I don't know it, but you are right that his calculation was incorrect.

The thing is Landis, I can't argue with you on theoretical grounds, but I get the feeling that even if someone were to show verifiable results which were beyond any reasonable doubt and were statistically significant in favour of a non-physics method, you still wouldn't "buy it". It wouldn't change your attitude one iota.

[winkel]

... I can't comment on Winkel's method because I don't know it, but you are right that his calculation was incorrect.

Which calculation was incorrect?

[Tangram]

Winkel,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're saying the probability for black after the 13th red is something other than 18/37.

[winkel]

Winkel,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're saying the probability for black after the 13th red is something other than 18/37.

Yes I said that!

And pls read my post again and try to understand.

It is a difference if I look at just one (the next spin) or if I look at a row of trials.
It is like: 1+1=2 and 2*1=2

Landis and obv. you are sticking at 1+1 and denying that 2*1 may have the same result.

br
winkel

[Number Six]

Number Six,

Perhaps you should explain to me why you feel Mr. Chips and Winkel's systems are valid.  

Don't play syntax games with me.  My point was still valid.

I don't believe I ever said they were valid. But I don't think YOU fully understand why they aren't. BTW, it isn't a matter of syntax.  A zebra is a stripy horse, but a horse isn't a zebra. It's pretty much official that odds and probability aren't the same. A real math guy should know that. Wait, just a typo, right?

[simon]

this thread seems to have gotten a bit side-tracked from it's original purpose.  I have not studied the signum system but I am curious about just one thing-- it seems that Mr. Chips refers to winning against certain spin results and what I want to know is, these are not spin results that have been published or can be observed somehow before applying the system, are they?

I mean that would make no sense to present that this is what happens when you play the system, as there is no way you can or should know what is going to happen before applying the system.  the ONLY test results I would want to see before deciding to study a system or not, and that would have any validity, is a copy of actual play at the casinos (which Mr. Chips says he has done for years, did he not?)

If one goes to the casino with a system like this, you know that one is taking careful notes (and  the casino doesn't care if you take notes or not at the roulette table) and I'm sure you would be saving these records of actual play for further analysis and to keep a record or diary of how the system is holding up and how much you've made and lost, etc.  so really what Mr. Chips should do is scan his notes from (the many sessions?) of actual casino play with the signum system (personally I always write the date and time and place and $ forked over for chips at the top of my notes before I commence betting) (and hide them good if I lost badly.)

Then you make a picture from live casino play and upload it and that is what should be presented as valid results.  anything other than a record of actual live spontaneous casino play is worthless as far as I am concerned, because ofcourse it's easy to win if you can bet after the ball drops!

So I would just like to know if these results and illustrated strategy of the system at work and the decisions that were made are from spins that were already published or could be observed somehow before the system was played against them, or not.  And if not, then how can I know that the subjective decisions that were made during the course of play were not reverse-engineered (if not consciously, then perhaps un-consciously) to fit the outcomes?  There is no way you can say, "here are spin outcomes and here's how the system would have played them."  that cannot be a valid presentation of the system at play, if there is any subjective decision making involved.

[gizmotron]

Regarding copyright: "The chances are quite good that you've granted the forum owner an irrevocable license to publish your posts once you posted them."

Mr Chips has passed his rights to the publisher of VLS. It would be up to Victor to attempt to prosecute a complaint of copyright infringement. What's more you have lived with prier infringements of your so called copyright and have not prosecuted your claims in those cases. Your copyright is worthless and any lawyer can win a case against you. You can't win in court. So go ahead and flex your outrage. Everyone knows that your Signum system has been openly discussed in several places on the internet. You have failed to defend your copyright in a timely manner. Your copyright is worthless. What's more this: "The signum website has full copyright number 0030569." is sophistry to scare little children.

[elmo]

It is my understanding that for an infringement of copyright to be successful that Mr Chips would have to prove in court that his strategy did have an edge over the casino as he states on his website. I would pay good money to witness that 

[gizmotron]

Publishing posts has nothing to do with copyright of the Signum website and it's contents. As the author of
the website I have sole rights, as to whether extracts can be made public. I did check this out very carefully
here in the UK and USA and registered copyright accordingly.

It is of course legitimate for Signum to be discussed openly, but no extracts can be made puplic without the
authors permission and when the author has pointed this out to someone who has perpatrated infrigement
of copyright, then they are breaking, in this case United States law, which recognizes registered copyright.

That's too bad then. You need to get your money back. "Signum system 2009" is not a registered trademark, right? You have an invalid copyright. I'll bet you would like to know why too. To late. The so called infringement has already taken place. Add this too. Did you allow others to publish excerpts from that website before this and did they get your permission before that happened. I suggest that Victor protects all references to your website and any quoted materials that reflect a duplicate representation of anything at that was posted from your website. It's evidence in your big lawsuit.

[gizmotron]

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