I'm so f*king mad >:(

[Spike]

Your personal experiences of RNGs prove absolutely nothing. You have no facts.>>>

Facts enough for me not to waste money on them. What you waste your money on is your business.

[Just_Gabe]

So Spike, how do you manage to get around this problem?  Or do you play only on live roulette and/or B&M casinos?

[Tangram]

Surely the point at issue is not RNGs per se, but the suspicion that the online casino is manipulating the numbers, and if that's true, then there's nothing you can do about, but this has nothing to do with whether RNGs and actuals are significantly different. I defy anyone to identify a stream of RNG decisions from a set from a real wheel.

Is anyone up to it? 

[Mr Chips]

Hi Tangram,
 
An interesting challenge
 
What did you have in mind?
 
Mr Chips

[Just_Gabe]

Maybe we can prove that somehow.

If you make 1 million spins on RX, you should get a certain distribution among the numbers, columns, streets, etc that almos even.

If you make 1 million spins in the online casino, the same results should be expected.

But if you make 1 million spins blacing bets with a winning system/method/w.e. and the software is rigged, then there should be some unusual distribution among the numbers since random is no longer aplying.

The only problem is betting in 1 million spins non-stop and with real money that eventually could be lost, making this test really difficult to pull off.

[Tangram]

@ just_gabe,

Good point, but I was thinking more about using a fair RNG (e.g. numbers from random.org) then there can be no question that they are "rigged" because no-one is putting their money up against them.  To say that all online casinos are rigged is simply nonsense in my opinion.

@ Mr Chips,

I was thinking of some kind of test where you would have to pick out the sets of RNG numbers vs actuals. There could be say 1000 numbers altogether, but they would be divided up into 10 groups (100 numbers in each group), some RNG, and some actuals. Actually it might be better to have only one set of RNG numbers and then it would be more impressive if someone were to identify that group, because the odds of randomly picking it would be 10-1  Or maybe Herb could think of a more effective test, except it might run into billions of spins. 

This seems to be a topic which comes up again and again, some claim they can tell the difference (which I don't believe), it would be great if it could be finally put to rest with some real evidence.

[Mr Chips]

Tangram,
 
My preference would be PRNG vs actuals.Yes, 10 groups (100 numbers in each group). Say for example 4 groups of PRNG and 6 groups of actuals.
The idea then is to identify the 4 PRNG groups.
 
Perhaps you could start a separate thread. It would certainly be interesting, as I have been able to identify PRNG on a number of occasions. I say
a number of occasions, because PRNG will mirror actuals for a certain number of spins and visa versa, so that's when you say there is no difference.
It is however the exception and it should be possible to identify PRNG most of the time.
 
I think Herb has got 1 billion PRNG stashed away and I am sure he would give us 1000 if we ask him nicely
 
Mr Chips

[Tangram]

Mr Chips,

By PRNG do you mean not from random.org? Perhaps if Herb's not available to post the numbers one of the admins or global moderators could do it. I think the testing section would be an appropriate place for the challenge. 

[Mr Chips]

Tangram,

Yes, not TRNG from random.org. Testing section would be ok.
 
Mr Chips

[bombus]

Surely the point at issue is not RNGs per se, but the suspicion that the online casino is manipulating the numbers, and if that's true, then there's nothing you can do about, but this has nothing to do with whether RNGs and actuals are significantly different. I defy anyone to identify a stream of RNG decisions from a set from a real wheel.

Is anyone up to it? 

Where's Einstein when you need him?

I suspect any difference will evetually make itself evident within the wheel scatter patterns rather than the numbers themselves.

Perhaps a fractals & chaos student could help with this type of analysis.

[bombus]

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